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STARHEATHER
09-27-2008, 09:58 PM
forget about this dude ever being an effective nfl back unless he puts on 20 and drops 2 tenths. slow as molasses. he ran a sweep in the game to the wide side and terrence cody was closing on him. undersize+ slow= no chance to be an nfl back. no value added skills. with the supposed "best" tb available and the "best" qb available they could do absolutely nothing. they didnt even try moreno between the tackles. his speed is terrible. he requires a gaping hole to be in anyway succesful and when he gets that hole hes too slow to fully exploit it. NO-shon. not now. not ever. not before rd 5. hes a second day pick if even at all worthy of a pick at all. at this point cannot play nfl tailback. maybe in 2 years if he adds some bulk and is not beaten to a pulp he may show more. but as far as pulling a larry fitz. forget about it. you watch charles scott or shonn greene or any of a host of others run, then watch him.its just not even close. the magazines all america team means nothing when it comes to draft status. another myth proven to be a false god.

Saints-Tigers
09-27-2008, 10:01 PM
Ok, I know you like being the bold prediction guy, but this is getting a bit ridiculous.

adschofield
09-27-2008, 10:03 PM
Seriously, stop.

However, I actually agree lol...My gut instinct hates Moreno

Turtlepower
09-27-2008, 10:16 PM
I love how you say how bad every major prospect is so in the off-chance that you get one correct than you can point out how right you were.

STARHEATHER
09-27-2008, 10:56 PM
care to refute? im putting it out there. strong opinions in writing. a never was. you should do the same. if you look at the draft every year, there may only be 10-20% who become quality nfl players. so every major prospect is more likely than not to flame out. thats why i do it. i dont hope to be right. im going to have about 50 draftable players on my board, and you can bet that it wont look like a draft guide top prospect list or all america team. my gut doesnt tell me to hate moreno. the tape does. so ill wait for your evaluation refuting my statements.

Xonraider
09-27-2008, 10:59 PM
forget about this dude ever being an effective nfl back unless he puts on 20 and drops 2 tenths. slow as molasses. he ran a sweep in the game to the wide side and terrence cody was closing on him. undersize+ slow= no chance to be an nfl back. no value added skills. with the supposed "best" tb available and the "best" qb available they could do absolutely nothing. they didnt even try moreno between the tackles. his speed is terrible. he requires a gaping hole to be in anyway succesful and when he gets that hole hes too slow to fully exploit it. NO-shon. not now. not ever. not before rd 5. hes a second day pick if even at all worthy of a pick at all. at this point cannot play nfl tailback. maybe in 2 years if he adds some bulk and is not beaten to a pulp he may show more. but as far as pulling a larry fitz. forget about it. you watch charles scott or shonn greene or any of a host of others run, then watch him.its just not even close. the magazines all america team means nothing when it comes to draft status. another myth proven to be a false god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H679PksuXx8

My God, he is slow!!!!11one

Turtlepower
09-27-2008, 11:06 PM
care to refute? im putting it out there. strong opinions in writing. a never was. you should do the same. if you look at the draft every year, there may only be 10-20% who become quality nfl players. so every major prospect is more likely than not to flame out. thats why i do it. i dont hope to be right. im going to have about 50 draftable players on my board, and you can bet that it wont look like a draft guide top prospect list or all america team. my gut doesnt tell me to hate moreno. the tape does. so ill wait for your evaluation refuting my statements.

He is a normal height for NFL running backs in the 5'11/6'0 range. He will run a 4.4-4.45 at the combine, which may not be all-world, but it isn't slow by any account either. He has had almost no holes to run in this season, so to say he needs a "gaping hole" is obviously a false statement. Most running backs can do very little without a good o-line and he has a horrible one to work with. To call him a 5th round pick after watching him play against one of the best run-defenses in NCAA is trying plain ignorant. Alabama showed how effective they were at stopping the run against one of the best running teams in college in Clemson, so obviously Knowshon was going to have trouble today. Along with Stafford having a poor perfomance and the aforementioned offensive line troubles, it is nearly impossible to properly evaluate Knowshon after todays performance. As the old adage goes, one game does not make a career.

Finally, you are completely stealing the "No-Shon" from Skip Bayless labeling Kevin Gernett as Kevin "Gar-Not" all last season.

Saints-Tigers
09-27-2008, 11:15 PM
If I were going to try and give Knowshon an insulting nickname, No-show would be more original.

Kid is a great runner though, I would bet he goes a bit above the 5th round lol.

STARHEATHER
09-27-2008, 11:29 PM
4.4? faster than rashard mendenhall. hmmm. i know he has no holes its always someone elses fault. great players perform against all competion. why couldnt he run? they didnt have 8 in the box all night. they have a qb whos a passing threat. i guess theres no shot he just isnt that good. he wasnt a great runner tonight. its not just one game either. hes physically inferior to top end nfl tailbacks in both size and speed and thats not good

STARHEATHER
09-27-2008, 11:32 PM
he may get drafted before rd 5, but i wouldnt pick him in any round. you never saw j stew or mendenhall get shut down. great ones dont get shut down at the college level. they may not get 200 every week. but theyre never phantoms.

Turtlepower
09-27-2008, 11:36 PM
he may get drafted before rd 5, but i wouldnt pick him in any round. you never saw j stew or mendenhall get shut down. great ones dont get shut down at the college level. they may not get 200 every week. but theyre never phantoms.

Jonathan Stewart severely underperformed his sophomore year against the better teams in the PAC-10. You are just spouting off names now to justify your horrible logic. Go ahead if that works for you because it doesn't mean anything to anyone else.

BamaFalcon59
09-27-2008, 11:38 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/gamelog?playerId=173412

13 rushing attempts for 33 rushing yards against U of California Los Angeles (UCLA).

CashmoneyDrew
09-27-2008, 11:39 PM
You are the lamest poster on these boards. Just stop. I think he's entitled to one off game. And be honest, you wouldn't have made this thread if he had had a good night tonight. He has no O-line, and his team fell way too far behind way too early for him to get a decent chance. I like him more than Beanie.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-27-2008, 11:43 PM
Theres an ignore list on this forum for a reason.

STARHEATHER
09-27-2008, 11:49 PM
right on a turf toe when he spent the second half in a walking boot. every other game, he was unstoppable, including several games over 200 on said turf toe. so that ends that. and what j stew did as a young part timer matters not either.by the end it was clear what he was. and its not one bad game. he was bad agaist sc too. so against the two best teams they faced, he underperformed. so when he gets to the nfl and he has a couple ol injuries its going to be ok for him to underperform or have bad games or be invisible? cause its going to happen. because thats the standard. the expectation level never changes. perform every week, preferably against the best. anything less isnt going to get it done

georgiafan
09-27-2008, 11:54 PM
Theres an ignore list on this forum for a reason.

How do you do it?

So In your eyes Moreno went from a mid 1st round pick (general projection) to a 5th rounder. Because of 9 carries agianst one of the best rush defense in the country. The same team that held two other 1st/2nd round backs to like 0 yards. Thats same real talent you have you shouldn't be wasting in on a message board.

RCAChainGang
09-27-2008, 11:59 PM
You are the lamest poster on these boards. Just stop. I think he's entitled to one off game. And be honest, you wouldn't have made this thread if he had had a good night tonight. He has no O-line, and his team fell way too far behind way too early for him to get a decent chance. I like him more than Beanie.

Complete ditto of your post.

I 100% Agree

Babylon
09-28-2008, 12:03 AM
Complete ditto of your post.

I 100% Agree

Let me add to that rep

Xonraider
09-28-2008, 12:07 AM
Temple Owl fan?

When did they ever play the Titans?

******'' FIGHTING OWLS ***** 7 TIME CHAMPS

draftguru151
09-28-2008, 12:25 AM
How do you do it?

So In your eyes Moreno went from a mid 1st round pick (general projection) to a 5th rounder. Because of 9 carries agianst one of the best rush defense in the country. The same team that held two other 1st/2nd round backs to like 0 yards. Thats same real talent you have you shouldn't be wasting in on a message board.

Go to his profile and click "add ____ to your ignore list".

STARHEATHER
09-28-2008, 01:20 AM
rather than ignore refute if im not correct. he was never a top prospect in my eyes. ever. i dont go by consensus.consensus causes you to draft chris long with the 2nd overall pick. i saw him last year a few times and he looked small and slow. and he is small and slow compared to top nfl tbs. so ive nver considered him. hes eligible this year, i got two games tonight and vs sc, he wasnt great and he looked the same as he did last year. playing for a good team and running for 1k yards doesnt a top nfl tb make. theirs a physical pedigree for the position. if youre going to be an undersize guy you have to be pretty much super fast and shifty cause youre not going to hold up at 205 running people over in the nfl. and you need value added skills. a bigger guy can sacrafice a bit of speed because they can take the punishment better and break tackles. if you cant break tackles at the nfl level and youre not fast enough to beat nfl players with your speed, which means really fast, youre notgoing to make it. if i was going to pick a smallish guy id be looking for a cj spiller type who can make big plays and has value added skills. these guys like this cant carry the full time load, so you have to have the big homerun speed and elusiveness and the value added skills. you cant put knowshon moreno out there at this point against nfl competition and perform. he couldnt even do it vs alabama or sc.

illmatic74
09-28-2008, 01:34 AM
rather than ignore refute if im not correct. he was never a top prospect in my eyes. ever. i dont go by consensus.consensus causes you to draft chris long with the 2nd overall pick. i saw him last year a few times and he looked small and slow. and he is small and slow compared to top nfl tbs. so ive nver considered him. hes eligible this year, i got two games tonight and vs sc, he wasnt great and he looked the same as he did last year. playing for a good team and running for 1k yards doesnt a top nfl tb make. theirs a physical pedigree for the position. if youre going to be an undersize guy you have to be pretty much super fast and shifty cause youre not going to hold up at 205 running people over in the nfl. and you need value added skills. a bigger guy can sacrafice a bit of speed because they can take the punishment better and break tackles. if you cant break tackles at the nfl level and youre not fast enough to beat nfl players with your speed, which means really fast, youre notgoing to make it. if i was going to pick a smallish guy id be looking for a cj spiller type who can make big plays and has value added skills. these guys like this cant carry the full time load, so you have to have the big homerun speed and elusiveness and the value added skills. you cant put knowshon moreno out there at this point against nfl competition and perform. he couldnt even do it vs alabama or sc.Knowshon Moreno to me looks like an everydown back in the NFL. He has great vision, is a physical runner and is elusive in the open field. He also catches the ball well and blocks. The only thing missing is top end speed. To say he is a 5th round prospect after one bad game is absurd. This defense that he played shut down Spiller and Davis of Clemson.

Bruce Banner
09-28-2008, 01:47 AM
As I have stated before, Moreno is a carbon copy of Carnell "Cadillac" Williams.....and we all saw what Carnell could do before the injuries hit him and boy blunder (Gruden) got into his dome.
I think his success will be dictated by what team he is drafted by. (Insightful eh?)
If he doesn't have a line he will suffer worst than most. His running style is fluid and beautiful to watch when he is given time though.

CashmoneyDrew
09-28-2008, 01:49 AM
As I have stated before, Moreno is a carbon copy of Carnell "Cadillac" Williams.....and we all saw what Carnell could do before the injuries and boy blunder (Gruden) got into his dome.
I think his success will be dictated by what team he is drafted by. (Insightful eh?)
If he doesn't have a line he will suffer worst than most. His running style is fluid and beautiful to watch when he is given time though.

That's funny because I've seen a lot of Knowshon=Clinton Portis comparisons and I remember Cadillac being compared to Clinton Portis a lot as well.

STARHEATHER
09-28-2008, 01:53 AM
its not from one bad game. do you really believe that hes going to be "physical" at his size in the nfl and survive?because theres a lot of bigger guys who cant who are far more physical than he is. heres a picture of knowshon moreno. think of reggie bush. now make him slow and unable to elude nfl defenders. also hes not going to catch 60 passes or return punts. hes going to be your # 1 tb only. hes the exact same size as bush. do you really believe that thgis guy is going to get it done. think about it. hes physical clone of reggie bush without all the freaky jukes and the 4.35 speed. do you really believe thats going to get it done at the nfl level. that a player like that is worthy of a high selection

Bruce Banner
09-28-2008, 01:53 AM
That's funny because I've seen a lot of Knowshon=Clinton Portis comparisons and I remember Cadillac being compared to Clinton Portis a lot as well.

Exactly. Pretty good company I'd say.

STARHEATHER
09-28-2008, 01:54 AM
hes way smaller than cadillac. and definitely slower

illmatic74
09-28-2008, 01:58 AM
its not from one bad game. do you really believe that hes going to be "physical" at his size in the nfl and survive?because theres a lot of bigger guys who cant who are far more physical than he is. heres a picture of knowshon moreno. think of reggie bush. now make him slow and unable to elude nfl defenders. also hes not going to catch 60 passes or return punts. hes going to be your # 1 tb only. hes the exact same size as bush. do you really believe that thgis guy is going to get it done. think about it. hes physical clone of reggie bush without all the freaky jukes and the 4.35 speed. do you really believe thats going to get it done at the nfl level. that a player like that is worthy of a high selection Do you really believe he is never going to put on more weight.

Bruce Banner
09-28-2008, 01:59 AM
hes way smaller than cadillac. and definitely slower

Not that much smaller. They are very similar either way. Hesitation to hit holes (call if patience if you'd like), lack of breakaway speed, fluid strides, etc.

Watch more than one game.

illmatic74
09-28-2008, 02:54 AM
Not that much smaller. They are very similar either way. Hesitation to hit holes (call if patience if you'd like), lack of breakaway speed, fluid strides, etc.

Watch more than one game. Your right Cadillac was around the same size in college.

STARHEATHER
09-28-2008, 04:26 PM
cadillac 5 11 217 4.43 at the combine. and he hasnt been all that great. so youre getting a smaller slower cadillac williams. i dont know is that worth a rd 1 pick?

Turtlepower
09-28-2008, 04:33 PM
cadillac 5 11 217 4.43 at the combine. and he hasnt been all that great. so youre getting a smaller slower cadillac williams. i dont know is that worth a rd 1 pick?

If Cadillac didn't get career ending injuries, than yes it would have been. He was one of the best RBs in the league during his rookie season. If I could draft Cadillac again knowing what I know now, I still would.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-28-2008, 05:30 PM
If Cadillac didn't get career ending injuries, than yes it would have been. He was one of the best RBs in the league during his rookie season. If I could draft Cadillac again knowing what I know now, I still would.

So you're telling me that you would draft a RB top 5 knowing that he would only be a one year wonder you would?

Turtlepower
09-28-2008, 05:34 PM
So you're telling me that you would draft a RB top 5 knowing that he would only be a one year wonder you would?

I'm saying that his injury was more or less a freak injury and if he hadn't sustained it, he would have had a great career.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-28-2008, 05:39 PM
I'm saying that his injury was more or less a freak injury and if he hadn't sustained it, he would have had a great career.

Oh, yea. Cadillac was so good his rookie year it's a shame he got hurt. Same with Ronnie Brown, both these guys never are healthy.

STARHEATHER
09-28-2008, 10:35 PM
but hes a smaller slower cadillac. and cadillac was never going to be a great one. he was already declining before the bad injury. so if you want a smaller slower cadddy and you believe that type back is worth a rd 1 pick by all means please draft him please. there will be better players than him later. and thats always good for those of us who dont like misses. when you miss high, the consequences are high. so good luck. i hope he works out but generally these types dont.

Staubach12
09-29-2008, 12:28 AM
Mythbusta, please leave. Not only are your evaluation and overall knowledge horrible, but grammar makes me want to vomit all over my computer. Thank you, and that is all.

georgiafan
09-29-2008, 07:43 AM
Moreno could miss the Tenn game which is following a bye week. As much as I love Moreno and he is one of my favorite college players of all time. I don't know know if he can hold up in the NFL.

STARHEATHER
09-30-2008, 07:24 PM
care to refute? or is that all you have on NO-shon. a feeble dig becuase i dont go by hype or draft guides or all america teams. well look back at the rd 1 picks from the last 5 years and how many have not lived up to expectations. the main reason. hype. media selections. so ill be waiting for your in depth rebuttal on why knowshon moreno is the next lt. ive told you why hes not. ive realized something on this site. the lower the reputation, the better the info and evals. the higher the rep, the more people just go of the preseason all america team like thats how its going to work out in the nfl. thats why we see so many players not meet expectations. why ufas out perform top picks. so ill be waiting for roger staubachs expert opinion with baited breath

giantsfan
09-30-2008, 10:42 PM
rather than ignore refute if im not correct. he was never a top prospect in my eyes. ever. i dont go by consensus.consensus causes you to draft chris long with the 2nd overall pick. i saw him last year a few times and he looked small and slow. and he is small and slow compared to top nfl tbs. so ive nver considered him. hes eligible this year, i got two games tonight and vs sc, he wasnt great and he looked the same as he did last year. playing for a good team and running for 1k yards doesnt a top nfl tb make. theirs a physical pedigree for the position. if youre going to be an undersize guy you have to be pretty much super fast and shifty cause youre not going to hold up at 205 running people over in the nfl. and you need value added skills. a bigger guy can sacrafice a bit of speed because they can take the punishment better and break tackles. if you cant break tackles at the nfl level and youre not fast enough to beat nfl players with your speed, which means really fast, youre notgoing to make it. if i was going to pick a smallish guy id be looking for a cj spiller type who can make big plays and has value added skills. these guys like this cant carry the full time load, so you have to have the big homerun speed and elusiveness and the value added skills. you cant put knowshon moreno out there at this point against nfl competition and perform. he couldnt even do it vs alabama or sc.

So was Tiki Barber huge? Emmit Smith super fast? Terrell Davis? There are many elite NFL RBs who are neither bigger nor faster than Knowshon, and this is coming from a Gators fan, Knowshon Moreno shows a very solid physical package with an exceptional amount of instinct for the position.

hockey619
10-01-2008, 12:35 PM
Mythbusta, no offense meant and just an honest question: Have you ever played sports before? Because if you have, you'd know that there's more to it than size and speed and athleticism. Sports take a certain mental makeup that not everyone has. Thats why guys with absurd measurables turn into nothing in the NFL while the Jerry Rices and Emmitt Smiths of the world succeed. They didnt have 4.3 speed or big frames, but they had heart, which is the most important measurable to a player and cannot be measured by a test but can be seen when watching a player. Knowshon doesnt go down without a fight every single time, so i think hes got what it takes to make it and be at least a chester taylor level player.

P-L
10-01-2008, 02:25 PM
mythbusta makes me laugh.

Bruce Banner
10-01-2008, 02:28 PM
So you're telling me that you would draft a RB top 5 knowing that he would only be a one year wonder you would?

Gruden's ineptitude combined with a terrible offensive line (at the time) and no passing game (at the time) made Cadillac appear to be a failure.

Throw in a torn patellar tendon and you have a "bust".

RCAChainGang
10-01-2008, 05:18 PM
Based off what I'm seeing from your complaints Mythbusta is that you watched one game of him where he wasn't so productive.

Watch another game man. He had an off game that every player has.

STARHEATHER
10-01-2008, 06:00 PM
ive seen him on tape multiple times. do i sound like i havent seem him? emmitt smith was 220 and tiki barber was also very stoutly built. so if im so wrong, tell me why. tell me why knowshon moreno is a great nfl back. and it wasnt just one game. it was two games this year. the only two teams that matched their talent level. sc and ala.now hes emmit smith or jerry rice. like i said before and ill say it again i dont care what the magazines say or all america or sportscenter says. the tape never lies. the media does. so again im still waiting for an evaluation of why this ones is a great one. and i dont try to measure the heart and will of a 20 yr old ive never met. i dont evaluate based on intangibles. i evalkuate based on tape. and in the two games ive got. he wasnt effective, i dont like his size, his speed, and he has no value added skills. like i said im still waiting for that mind changing evaluation to make me say ok maybe ill consider

keylime_5
10-01-2008, 06:06 PM
He has solid speed and size numbers, nothing above average or elite but his physical tools will be good enough to make him a good back. He does have the important things though: vision, patience, quickness, and he always makes people miss and does those crazy spin moves. Intangeables are always so important for RBs and he has them. That said, I don't think he'll be anything more than another solid starter like Portis and Marshawn who is good but not elite or a guy who is gonna go to 7 pro bowls or whatever.

STARHEATHER
10-01-2008, 06:17 PM
and you know this how? he didnt have great vision against alabama or sc. can you see what he sees? and hes definitely a lot smaller than marhshawn lynch and slower than cp, whos average anyway, when hes not hurt, which is every year.

reffahead
10-02-2008, 06:39 AM
Jeez guy you are terrible. How can you say 5th round when NFL franchises are seriously considering him 1st round as a Redshirt Sophomore.
That is almost unheard of.

He's already at 210, and have you ever heard of Warrick Dunn. He was well below 200 entering the league.

Shon took a hit that hurt him against Arizona st. He hurt his elbow against bama. His OL has been terrible and their top nfl caliber fb has been injured all season. They fell down 31-0 before halftime so of course he's not going to get his normal touches.

georgiafan
10-02-2008, 07:11 AM
I think people are going to over evalute Moreno and it will cost him to drop to the mid-late 1st. They are going to see his 40 time is only 4.5 (im guessing). Then look at his size is only average instead of looking at all the things he does good. On film he will score out excellent, but probley not so well at the combine. I'm not saying his should drop that far just my prediction on what will happen. I'm sure they are some fans of teams picking in that range that will be more that happy to see him drop.

Bruce Banner
10-02-2008, 12:45 PM
I think people are going to over evalute Moreno and it will cost him to drop to the mid-late 1st. They are going to see his 40 time is only 4.5 (im guessing). Then look at his size is only average instead of looking at all the things he does good. On film he will score out excellent, but probley not so well at the combine. I'm not saying his should drop that far just my prediction on what will happen. I'm sure they are some fans of teams picking in that range that will be more that happy to see him drop.

I don't think he will go top 10 maybe not even top 15.

Bengals1690
10-02-2008, 07:19 PM
and you know this how? he didnt have great vision against alabama or sc. can you see what he sees? and hes definitely a lot smaller than marhshawn lynch and slower than cp, whos average anyway, when hes not hurt, which is every year.


Let me say this,I HATE KNOWSHON.

But you are ridiculous. He ran all over the best defensive conference in the nation last year as a RS Fresh. Now, 4 games ino his sophmore season, and while dealing with nagging injuries and a not so good offensive line, you are labeling him as a 5th rounder? What running backs do you have above him? The only RBS i see that are better are Wells and maybe Mcoy and Donald brown. Do you not expect any RBS to get drafted till the fifth?

bearsfan_51
10-02-2008, 07:38 PM
Please use capital letters. Your posts make my eyes bleed.

georgiafan
10-03-2008, 07:35 AM
Moreno is fine and will play agianst Tenn.

Staubach12
10-03-2008, 12:05 PM
so if im so wrong, tell me why. tell me why knowshon moreno is a great nfl back.

His size is not bad. He has pretty good speed. His vision and ability to cut are remarkable. He's been extraordinarily productive against the BEST defenses in the nation. Agility is fantastic. Overall, he's a great athlete. He can be productive catching the ball. Has good power. Very tenacious.

STARHEATHER
10-03-2008, 07:44 PM
8 carries for 30 yds agasinst bama is productive? didnt show much speed or power in that game. i would agree he has some nice moves. unfortunately, he lacks big play ability and the power to break nfl tackles, which is pretty much the kiss of death for an nfl tb. his best case scenario is ray rice and that dudes never going to be much of an nfl back. they were using laron mcclain as tb in spelling mcgahee rather than rice. hes also slower and not as compactly built. hes a slower ray rice clone. never going to get it done at the nfl level.

CLong4Heisman
10-03-2008, 08:00 PM
8 carries for 30 yds agasinst bama is productive? didnt show much speed or power in that game. i would agree he has some nice moves. unfortunately, he lacks big play ability and the power to break nfl tackles, which is pretty much the kiss of death for an nfl tb. his best case scenario is ray rice and that dudes never going to be much of an nfl back. they were using laron mcclain as tb in spelling mcgahee rather than rice. hes also slower and not as compactly built. hes a slower ray rice clone. never going to get it done at the nfl level.

He got hurt and they were down by 31 points at halftime. Did you really think he was going to get the ball. Big play ability is way way overrated. How many long runs has Marion Barber had?

STARHEATHER
10-03-2008, 08:09 PM
why did they score 0 points? a comparison to marion barber is a bad comparison. barber is an nfl tackle breaker. i dont think thats disputable. i would say there are 3 types of backs. tackle breakers, big play space runners with speed and freaky jukes, and of course the best, who do both. hes not any of the three. thus i discard him. if you dont have home run ability, you must be a tackle breaker. if you cant elude or run over what can you do really in the nfl

vidae
10-03-2008, 08:13 PM
Anyone notice that every time this guy posts he mentions Terrance Cody? Maybe this IS Terrance Cody in disguise..

CLong4Heisman
10-03-2008, 08:13 PM
why did they score 0 points? a comparison to marion barber is a bad comparison. barber is an nfl tackle breaker. i dont think thats disputable. i would say there are 3 types of backs. tackle breakers, big play space runners with speed and freaky jukes, and of course the best, who do both. hes not any of the three. thus i discard him. if you dont have home run ability, you must be a tackle breaker. if you cant elude or run over what can you do really in the nfl

The only comparison i made to MB 3 is lack of big plays. Are you really blaming a RS Sophmore for a team not scoring? He may not be great in anything but he has 4.46 speed, good power and excellent athleticism. He may not be a All-Pro but he will be good.

STARHEATHER
10-03-2008, 08:25 PM
well hes suppposed to be a top back, so it would make sense that he would be somewhat effective in pretty much every game. if youre going to use a high pick, wouldnt pro bowls be the expectation? if you agree he doesnt have pro bowl potential why would you use a rd 1 pick?

CLong4Heisman
10-03-2008, 08:27 PM
well hes suppposed to be a top back, so it would make sense that he would be somewhat effective in pretty much every game. if youre going to use a high pick, wouldnt pro bowls be the expectation? if you agree he doesnt have pro bowl potential why would you use a rd 1 pick?

i said All-Pro not Pro Bowl, there is a huge difference. Well LT had 2 crappy games rushing, does that mean he isn't a good back? Everyone has off days plus the 8 carries which you seem to ignore.

STARHEATHER
10-03-2008, 08:34 PM
you believe then hes a pro bowl caliber nfl tb? based on his 2 performances against quality competition in 08?

Staubach12
10-04-2008, 12:26 AM
well hes suppposed to be a top back, so it would make sense that he would be somewhat effective in pretty much every game. if youre going to use a high pick, wouldnt pro bowls be the expectation? if you agree he doesnt have pro bowl potential why would you use a rd 1 pick?

Even when hurt? Even when he's taken out? Fine then. I'll play your game.

Beanie Wells:
-20 carries, 76 yards vs Illinois in '07
-16 carries for 46 yards vs Youngstown St in '07
-6 carries, 9 yards vs Bowling Green in '06
-5 carries, 11 yards vs Penn St in '06
-2 carries, 9 yards vs Florida in '06

James Davis:
-6 carries, 13 yards vs Alabama in '08
-14 carries, 34 yards vs NC state in '08
-12 carries, 10 yards vs Boston College in '07
-6 carries, 9 yards vs Va Tech in '07
-11 carries, 19 yards vs South Carolina in '06
-13 carries, 34 yards vs NC St in '06
-12 carries, 30 yards vs Va Tech in '06
-12 carries, 12 yards vs Miami (FL) in '05

Arian Foster:
-8 carries, 30 yards vs Auburn in '08
-14 carries, 37 yards vs Florida in '08
-16 carries, 31 yards vs Wisconsin in '07
-21 carries, 51 yards vs LSU in '07
-11 carries, 26 yards vs Florida in '07
-3 carries, -4 yards vs Vandy in '06
-12 carries, 65 yards vs Penn St in '06
-12 carries, 28 yards vs S Car in '06
-11 carries, 34 yards vs Alabama in '06
-7 carries, 22 yards vs Air Force in '06
-11 carries, 36 yards vs Mississippi in '05
-4 carries, 11 yards vs Florida in '05

Javon Ringer:
-13 carries, 86 yards vs Purdue in '07
-3 carries, -2 yards vs Penn St in '06
-12 carries, 25 yards vs Minnesota in '06
-10 carries, 36 yards vs Purdue '06
-12 carries, 37 yards vs Michigan in '06



Tell me, mythbusta, is there one RB you do like? Your analysis is crap.

Staubach12
10-04-2008, 12:28 AM
Also, notice how those RBs struggled against that great Florida defense. Moreno last year? 33 carries, 188 yards and 3 TDs.

Buckrock101
10-04-2008, 12:38 AM
Just sayin', where's he been in the big games this year? Against South Carolina he had 79 yards on the ground, and against Alabama he had 34. He's a very good college back, but he needs to be able to show up in those big SEC clashes.

I like him as an NFL back, just not as much as a lot of people. I see him around the 18-25 region right now, and a push with Harvey Unga as my #2 back. He is dynamic, has good vision and great moves, but he looks like a 4.4 kinda guy to me, and someone who doesn't have that good bulk/power. Still, he should be able to be a 1000 yard guy in the NFL.

robert pancake gallery
10-04-2008, 12:54 AM
hes still a sophomore and hes running against alabama, and its only one game.. look at chris wells with ohio state he ran 20 times for 70 something vs a slow illinois defense last year and you don't see threads saying that hes going to be a bust.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 12:36 AM
i dont like any as top tier nfl backs at this moment. just because there are backs out there, doesnt mean that a high pick has to be used on them. i havent seen one id use a rd 1 pick. i dont like any of the backs you listed. some years are great for backs like last year. this year is not a good year. im not comparing him to other college backs like that makes any difference at all. so i ask again is knowshon moreno a potential pro bowl back? if he is, then please elaborate on why. hes not a 4.4 guy, so thats out the window. think of it this way. felixjones ran a 4.44 at the combine. so basically what youre saying is that hes faster than felix jones. do you really think?hes not going to run over any nfl tacklers, as he couldnt run over and bama or sc tacklers. hes undersize and lacks homerun ability.no value added skills. so for any of those who believe hes worthy of a high selection, i think youre going to have to say he has consistent pro bowl ability. otherwise, hes not worthy of a high pick. so ill be waiting for someone to put it in writing that believes to say it.

Vox Populi
10-05-2008, 12:45 AM
I think mythbusta is attempting to discredit every draftable player with the aspirations that somehow he will get a phone call to join an NFL squad as rookie at their camp...

Its the only explanation...

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 12:53 AM
i wish. but history shows only about 10-20% of available players turn out to actually be good players. so you can love every prospect out there but chances are youll be wrong about 80% of the time. so thats my angle to answer your statement, i dont know how you can not find things wrong with every prospect. its just how much wrong there is that makes the determination. none of them are nfl ready until they prove they can do the nfl stuff. and in a good year thats 20% of draftable prospects. and history proves they arent all picked in rd 1.

CashmoneyDrew
10-05-2008, 01:21 AM
I think mythbusta is attempting to discredit every draftable player with the aspirations that somehow he will get a phone call to join an NFL squad as rookie at their camp...

Its the only explanation...

No. He's running around saying everyone's a bust so that when he gets lucky and a few actually do bust he can try to use that to make people think he is a drafting guru, when in actuality he has as much a chance at guessing all the busts as joe sixpack does.

giantsfan
10-05-2008, 02:39 AM
mythabusta I'm about to really blow your mind. Top NFL RBs who had neither great speed nor size:
Tiki Barber
Emmit Smith
Pre-paycheck Shaun Alexander
Pre-injuries Ahmad Green
Clinton Portis (Washington)
Edgerrin James
Marshawn

All of those RBs had/have comparable size to Knowshon and only Portis was ever really faster.

What Knowshon has that's exceptional for an NFL RB is his vision and balance as well as his quickness and acceleration which lets him cut effectively. I'm not a fan of drafting RBs in the first unless they're DMC or AD caliber but I'd take Knowshon in the first.

Staubach12
10-05-2008, 08:38 AM
i dont like any as top tier nfl backs at this moment. just because there are backs out there, doesnt mean that a high pick has to be used on them. i havent seen one id use a rd 1 pick. i dont like any of the backs you listed. some years are great for backs like last year. this year is not a good year. im not comparing him to other college backs like that makes any difference at all. so i ask again is knowshon moreno a potential pro bowl back? if he is, then please elaborate on why. hes not a 4.4 guy, so thats out the window. think of it this way. felixjones ran a 4.44 at the combine. so basically what youre saying is that hes faster than felix jones. do you really think?hes not going to run over any nfl tacklers, as he couldnt run over and bama or sc tacklers. hes undersize and lacks homerun ability.no value added skills. so for any of those who believe hes worthy of a high selection, i think youre going to have to say he has consistent pro bowl ability. otherwise, hes not worthy of a high pick. so ill be waiting for someone to put it in writing that believes to say it.

You loved last year's class? Fine, let's do this.

Darren McFadden:
-19 carries, 61 yards vs Florida Int in '07
-17 carries, 41 yards vs Auburn in '07
-17 carries, 65 yards vs Mississippi in '06
-24 carries, 57 yards vs LSU in '05
-13 carries, 22 yards vs Mississippi in '05

Rashard Mendenhall:
-15 carries, 67 yards vs Penn St in '07
-11 carries, 33 yards vs Missouri in '07
-7 carries, 18 yards vs Ohio St in '06
-8 carries, 26 yards vs Wisconsin in '06
-5 carries, 17 yards vs Michigan St in '06
-5 carries, 14 yards vs Iowa in '06

Jonathan Stewart:
-13 carries, 33 yards vs UCLA in '07
-11 carries, 26 yards vs Arizona in '06
-14 carries, 42 yards vs USC in '06
-11 carries, 28 yards vs Wash St in '06
-18 carries, 25 yards vs Cal in '06

Saints-Tigers
10-05-2008, 01:50 PM
After I thought about who he reminds me of most, Kenny Irons came to mind, and he was projected similarly before injuries.

Sniper
10-05-2008, 01:52 PM
mythabusta I'm about to really blow your mind. Top NFL RBs who had neither great speed nor size:
Tiki Barber
Emmit Smith
Pre-paycheck Shaun Alexander
Pre-injuries Ahmad Green
Clinton Portis (Washington)
Edgerrin James
Marshawn

All of those RBs had/have comparable size to Knowshon and only Portis was ever really faster.

What Knowshon has that's exceptional for an NFL RB is his vision and balance as well as his quickness and acceleration which lets him cut effectively. I'm not a fan of drafting RBs in the first unless they're DMC or AD caliber but I'd take Knowshon in the first.

Brian Westbrook.

BNad
10-05-2008, 02:07 PM
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Yes, he had 30 yards, but he ONLY GOT THE BALL 8 TIMES. We inexplicably panicked down 10 and completely went away from the run. We were getting smoked, there was no running to be done until it was 31-17.. and he was injured with Caleb King in the game.

This is of course is a defense to those who aren't smart enough to realize they were playing one of the best rush defenses in the country. James Davis and CJ Spiller must be going in the 7th for you.

giantsfan
10-05-2008, 04:32 PM
Brian Westbrook.

See Westy has better speed and acceleration than Knowshon

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 04:55 PM
well clinton portis is a 4.42 40.
ahman green is 218. too old to find his speed but from what i remember he was pretty fast
edgerrin james is 215 with 4.38 speed
emmitt smith 220
shawn alexander 218
marshawn lynch 215 4.46 40
as for tiki theyve been just as good running the ball with him gone as they were with him there. hes an addition by subtraction guy
thanks for blowing my mind. or should i say, thanks for validating my point. he doesnt compare to any of those guys. and he hasnt been anywhere near as productive, at least not this year except vs valdosta state or central michigan. youre comparing him to players he doesnt compare to. unless hes faster than felix jones. do you think? if not hes not as fast as clinton portis. like i said previously if he plays some good football against some good teams this year and puts on 20lbs and shows the same ability id consider maybe. but hes still going to be slow.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 04:55 PM
tiki was also a mid rd pick

Staubach12
10-05-2008, 05:52 PM
You going to respond to my point, or just ignore it because you're wrong?

CashmoneyDrew
10-05-2008, 05:55 PM
well clinton portis is a 4.42 40.
ahman green is 218. too old to find his speed but from what i remember he was pretty fast
edgerrin james is 215 with 4.38 speed
emmitt smith 220
shawn alexander 218
marshawn lynch 215 4.46 40
as for tiki theyve been just as good running the ball with him gone as they were with him there. hes an addition by subtraction guy
thanks for blowing my mind. or should i say, thanks for validating my point. he doesnt compare to any of those guys. and he hasnt been anywhere near as productive, at least not this year except vs valdosta state or central michigan. youre comparing him to players he doesnt compare to. unless hes faster than felix jones. do you think? if not hes not as fast as clinton portis. like i said previously if he plays some good football against some good teams this year and puts on 20lbs and shows the same ability id consider maybe. but hes still going to be slow.

You are so full of it. 20 lbs? he's 205. he need's about 5 lbs tops. And he is not slow. I know this just by the games I watched him in last year. Scott even has his projected 40 at 4.45 and Scott is usually conservative with his 40 estimates. He has solid burst and elusiveness, and makes plenty of great plays with his wiggle and vision/patience. You have zero credibility.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-05-2008, 06:01 PM
You loved last year's class? Fine, let's do this.

Darren McFadden:
-19 carries, 61 yards vs Florida Int in '07
-17 carries, 41 yards vs Auburn in '07
-17 carries, 65 yards vs Mississippi in '06
-24 carries, 57 yards vs LSU in '05
-13 carries, 22 yards vs Mississippi in '05

Rashard Mendenhall:
-15 carries, 67 yards vs Penn St in '07
-11 carries, 33 yards vs Missouri in '07
-7 carries, 18 yards vs Ohio St in '06
-8 carries, 26 yards vs Wisconsin in '06
-5 carries, 17 yards vs Michigan St in '06
-5 carries, 14 yards vs Iowa in '06

Jonathan Stewart:
-13 carries, 33 yards vs UCLA in '07
-11 carries, 26 yards vs Arizona in '06
-14 carries, 42 yards vs USC in '06
-11 carries, 28 yards vs Wash St in '06
-18 carries, 25 yards vs Cal in '06

How come you did not refute any of this? Your logic is terrible. No scout in the NFL would ever evaluate a player based off a game. He got the ball 8 times, his night was over before it even started. Its really not even worth discussing when you look at what Stubach posted.

I like Moreno. I think he hits hole hard and is desisive in his cuts. He does not dance around. He keeps his pads low and has great balance. I think he looks completely natural at RB and he will be good in the NFL. Who cares what a RB runs a 40 in? I have never saw a RB in the NFL, college or highschool get 40 uninterrupted yards in showcase his speed.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 06:13 PM
well, is he going to run a 4.33 40 or is he going to run a 4.4 40 at 225 or put up 30 reps and break 10 tackles per game like stewart and run a 4.46 at 235 with a broken toe? is he going to break 80 yarders like dmac or turn nothing into long runs like jonathan stewart or rashard mendenhall? its not just a bout stats. hoiw they get the yards is just as important as the yards they get. in their final year i never saw rashard mendenhall shut down, actually 18-80 vs penn st and missouri was his first career start and they got way behind early. vs ucla his jr yr steart spent the second half in a walking boot after playing the first half on said broken toe, and the following weeks with said broken toe he was putting up 200 yd games. not only is he totally inferior on the field, but hes physcially nowhere near the athletic freaks those guys are. he doesnt compare to any of them in any way and hasnt been nearly as productive in this his coming out year. bad awful horible comparisons. you can look back in their young careers and find one or two games they didnt play well and call that a justification. so youre telling me hes a runner in the dmac or mendenhall or stewart mold now. he hasnt been good in either of his games ANDhe lacks their physcial capabilities. as they are genetic freaks of nature while moreno is an average at best athlete. so basically stewart had one hurt game his jr year, dmac had two bad games in his coming out year, although he was putting up 200 in several games vs the top end competion. if he physically compared to them id consider your point valid and say we can give him a shot but hes 2 for 2 bad this yr. so if he goes out an puts up 100 every game and sprinkles in some 200 yarders against good teams the rest of this year maybe considered but hes never going to be the physcial freak that those guys are

DoWnThEfiElD
10-05-2008, 06:24 PM
Ok according to you Ron Dayne should have been amazing. He was fast, a rumbler, big, he has it all.

Also this TJ Duckett's physical attributes..
Since the NFL Scouting Combine broke in February, Duckett has been turning heads around the league. The 6-2, 250-pounder ran the 40-yard dash in 4.45 seconds

There is more to being an NFL RB than size and speed.

CashmoneyDrew
10-05-2008, 06:51 PM
well, is he going to run a 4.33 40 or is he going to run a 4.4 40 at 225 or put up 30 reps and break 10 tackles per game like stewart and run a 4.46 at 235 with a broken toe? is he going to break 80 yarders like dmac or turn nothing into long runs like jonathan stewart or rashard mendenhall? its not just a bout stats. hoiw they get the yards is just as important as the yards they get. in their final year i never saw rashard mendenhall shut down, actually 18-80 vs penn st and missouri was his first career start and they got way behind early. vs ucla his jr yr steart spent the second half in a walking boot after playing the first half on said broken toe, and the following weeks with said broken toe he was putting up 200 yd games. not only is he totally inferior on the field, but hes physcially nowhere near the athletic freaks those guys are. he doesnt compare to any of them in any way and hasnt been nearly as productive in this his coming out year. bad awful horible comparisons. you can look back in their young careers and find one or two games they didnt play well and call that a justification. so youre telling me hes a runner in the dmac or mendenhall or stewart mold now. he hasnt been good in either of his games ANDhe lacks their physcial capabilities. as they are genetic freaks of nature while moreno is an average at best athlete. so basically stewart had one hurt game his jr year, dmac had two bad games in his coming out year, although he was putting up 200 in several games vs the top end competion. if he physically compared to them id consider your point valid and say we can give him a shot but hes 2 for 2 bad this yr. so if he goes out an puts up 100 every game and sprinkles in some 200 yarders against good teams the rest of this year maybe considered but hes never going to be the physcial freak that those guys are

This statement proves you know nothing about Knowshon. Why don't you come out and tell us what we already know. You've seen one or two of his down games and made a hasty decision that you are irrationally defending.

CashmoneyDrew
10-05-2008, 06:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QMkZiSt-xw

In those highlights you will see plenty of plays where Knowshon shows plenty of balance, speed, burst, patience, vision and even power. Watch him run over defenders at the 4:00 mark. You can't use the bad stat lines anymore since you've already been served on that. Not to mention you yourself have mentioned in one of your own posts that stats don't mean anything.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 07:00 PM
hes only had two games this year. and hes been down in both.what other games are there? central mich? ga southern? i guess im supposed to use those games. and he doesnt physically compare in any way. hes inferior on the atletic side

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 07:01 PM
thats what i know.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-05-2008, 07:15 PM
Ok let me do this so you will understand.

noshon is good. he is a great athlete. he has superior vison and cutting ability that will help him be drafted high. he is a physical freak who put up outstanding numbers playing only the second half of the season against quality opponents. he is fast enough to play rb in the nfl. he will gain more weight but you cannot teach his natural ability as a runner which is what an nfl team will draft him high is drafting him for. moreno is far from an average at best athlete. he dominated the sec in a way very few freshman have ever done. you obviously cannot evaluate talent if you think he is far inferior to the 08 class of rbs. he compares very well to cadillac williams in college. they are both not weigh 220 but they had the ability to run low and make desisive cuts that made them great backs. williams got drafted high and was a great up and comer til an injury hurt him. i would hope that comparison may shed light on guys getting drafted high that to not weigh 220 or may no be freaks. its good to be a solid rb with good vision.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 07:20 PM
physcial freak compared to whom? dmac? jonathan stewart? he didnt show great vision vs bama or sc. you mean he runs through gaping holes. caddy ran a 4.43 at 217lbs. is he that big or that fast? becuase thats what youre saying that hes a good as athlete as caddy. does he run as fast as felix jones 4.44? problem with your comparisons is that you dont know anything about the physical nature of the players youre comparing him too. and caddys never been an nfl star. so if you want a smaller slower caddy and think thats worth a high pick and is going to work out at the nfl level, then by all means

DoWnThEfiElD
10-05-2008, 07:26 PM
caddy was nfl rookie of the year. and you think caddy was 217 his soph year? your wrong. you're obsessed with physical attributes and you have no idea what you are talking about. calvin johnson is a physical freak should we just hand the ball to him? thats all that matters right? lets just have our biggest fastest guys carry the ball, nothing else matters. size and speed. size and speed. you made me realize that play rb doesn't matter, all i need to do is look for the biggest fastest dude and let him carry the rock. now that i think about it, i can't even begin to imagine how good calvin johnson would have been at rb. he is such a physical freak he would have destroyed everybody.

BamaFalcon59
10-05-2008, 07:27 PM
Also, Felix Jones is 212 right now according to the NFL. I like Moreno, but comparing his speed with Jones' is futile as well.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 07:31 PM
caddy was 217 his jr year at the combine. he had one 1000 yd season. thats really all that matters. now youre going to pick a smaller slower guy who hasnt been as good in the games, and youre going to use a high pick. sounds like a plan.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-05-2008, 07:38 PM
so moreno can't gain 10 lbs in a season then train for a forty like caddy did. there speeds are not that different. but your right dude im never drafting a rb for the position again, im gona draft physical freaks they have to dominate according to your logic. seriously calvin johnson at rb=sure fire hall of famer best rb ever. too bad the lions will never go for it. im just glad you taught me all that matters is size and speed you should quit high school and be a scout.

HUGH!
10-05-2008, 10:34 PM
Knowshon is overrated. He jumps over a defender that was already on the ground two weeks in a row and the ESPN analyzers are sitting there staring in awe and call him the best player ever. He is fast though.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 10:45 PM
i would ask again fast compared to whom and in what game did he disply said speed. fast is sub 4.4. moderately fast is felix jones 4.44. is he faster than felix jones? if not then hes not even moderately fast, and for an undersize guy that isnt going to get it done at the nfl level. it doesnt matter. hes not coming out. if he does when he works out hes going to fall into the mid rds. because its going to be substandard.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 10:47 PM
thats whats caled evaluating based on sportscenter highlights and media hype. its good to see someone doesnt heed what they say. its the biggest mistake in talent evaluation is to watch snippets. you have to watch what they do every single play.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-05-2008, 10:55 PM
mythbusta can we agree by your logic Calvin Johnson would be ther greatest rb of all time. He has it all size and speed.

iBoldin
10-05-2008, 10:57 PM
thats whats caled evaluating based on sportscenter highlights and media hype. its good to see someone doesnt heed what they say. its the biggest mistake in talent evaluation is to watch snippets. you have to watch what they do every single play.

The problem you seem to have, however, is the ability to grasp the fact that you can't just watch every single play for 1 game, like you are with your "breakdowns" of players. You clearly are making assumptions and rash decisions based on a single game. Knowshon Moreno, Chris Wells, James Laurinaitis, Sergio Kindle, the list is going to go on and on and on and on and on.

You also set a double standard by saying its the biggest mistake to watch snippets, because clearly this is what you are doing. Have you seen every Georgia game? How about every Buckeyes contest? Perhaps every Texas game?

It just gets really, really tiresome, to listen to you ramble on and on about things that clearly aren't true. How come there are about 20 other guys on here with the same opinion, including the site owner, that agree on Moreno, that agree on Laurinaitis, Maualuga, etc, but not you? It wreaks of you trying to outside the box kind of different.

Please name ten prospects you do like, and would take in the first round this year. I would like to watch "tape" of them in one game, and then point every single little thing they did wrong. Or you can just name ten prospects, because I think everyone would love to know who you think are the premium prospects in the draft.

Staubach12
10-05-2008, 11:11 PM
thats whats caled evaluating based on sportscenter highlights and media hype. its good to see someone doesnt heed what they say. its the biggest mistake in talent evaluation is to watch snippets. you have to watch what they do every single play.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/kyle_ex_machina/English.jpg

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 11:19 PM
well i have 2 games. the only 2 hes played vs quality competition. sc and bama. he didnt disply his supposed greatness in those games. if he goes out and gets a cnote every game the rest of the year and sprinkles in some 200 yarders i may reconsider. but looking at the slate its going to be tough. its not going to get any easier. thats what its going to take. looking at the slate hes more likely to have a bama or sc type performance. you have to dominate the college level at the rb position. and hes not doing anything remotely resembling dominance

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 11:24 PM
in no particular order

tyson jackson
terrence cody
sergio kindle
brian orakpo
duke robinson
darius heyward bey
josh freeman
eugene monroe
cj spiller
michael oher
william moore

is that 10? im sure ill have more as the season goes along. its still early. there are still those hidden that will reveal themselves, i just havent seen them yet, but i will at some point

DoWnThEfiElD
10-05-2008, 11:40 PM
Spiller as a kick returner or anything but a RB I hope. Against Bama he only had 7 yards. Even Knowshon had a better average than that crap and he is too small and slow.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 11:46 PM
right because of his value added skills and big play ability. hes not a top 10 or a first tier nfl back. hes like a felix jones type with more speed and power. those guys have value provided you dont try to give them a full load. theyve proven to be worthy of rd 1 picks.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-05-2008, 11:57 PM
Well whatever we both agree Calvin Johnson should play RB with his size and speed right mythbusta, we know where its at. He would be deadly, so much value-added and all that good stuff...

giantsfan
10-06-2008, 12:49 AM
well clinton portis is a 4.42 40.
ahman green is 218. too old to find his speed but from what i remember he was pretty fast
edgerrin james is 215 with 4.38 speed
emmitt smith 220
shawn alexander 218
marshawn lynch 215 4.46 40
as for tiki theyve been just as good running the ball with him gone as they were with him there. hes an addition by subtraction guy
thanks for blowing my mind. or should i say, thanks for validating my point. he doesnt compare to any of those guys. and he hasnt been anywhere near as productive, at least not this year except vs valdosta state or central michigan. youre comparing him to players he doesnt compare to. unless hes faster than felix jones. do you think? if not hes not as fast as clinton portis. like i said previously if he plays some good football against some good teams this year and puts on 20lbs and shows the same ability id consider maybe. but hes still going to be slow.

Knowshon has 4.45 speed and is 5'11" 210 right now you think he can't put on 5 pounds and then have comparable speed and size to all those guys? Also like how you ignored Emmitt Smith's 40 because you know it would completely invalidate your point that someone with Moreno's size and slower than 4.5 speed can't be a franchise RB in the NFL.

BTW Our oline has been steadily getting better each season since tiki's last season on, now our oline is dominant and we have three effective NFL so that's why we've maintained our success on the ground.

Mr. Stiller
10-06-2008, 01:31 AM
in no particular order

tyson jackson ~ Jackson has to be running a 3rd to 4th round ranking. Strong Sophmore campaign backed with 2 lethargic and unimpressive Jr and Senior Campaigns. Unless he turns into a beast ... and Now... Not going day 1.

sergio kindle ~ Seriously? Kindle has talent and a bright future but there is no way that if he comes out that he's a 1st round pick unless he really runs great at the combine. He still needs redshirt year in the pro's or another year in college.


duke robinson ~ Got punked by a WVU defense that consisted of UDFA's. Johnny Dingle Mauled him and Dingle is what.. 6'1 270lbs and 4.8 slow? Robinson is overweight, lazy in his technique and honestly shouldn't go before round 2. He's a 6'5 320lb version of Max Starks.

cj spiller ~ BUT SPILLER DIDN"T DO JACK AGAINST ALABAMA... ALL THAT SPEED AND HE ONLY MUSTERED 7 YARDS ON 2 ATTEMPTS!!! BUST!

josh freeman ~ You really mean the QB from Kansas State? The talent of this 2009 QB Class is sad, but Freeman is not any better than Andre Woodson. Though he can't get exposed like Woodson did at the Senior bowl.

is that 10? im sure ill have more as the season goes along. its still early. there are still those hidden that will reveal themselves, i just havent seen them yet, but i will at some point

Dude you make this TOOO easy.

georgiafan
10-06-2008, 07:33 AM
Something that hasn't been mentioned is Moreno does have the ablitity to return punts. He has returned a few on the year and looked pretty good on those. He will never be the man guy in college for obvious reasons though he could see some more time in the big games. I don't know if he does it in the NFL or not that would probley depend on what team drafts him.

CroomDawgs
10-06-2008, 10:17 AM
in no particular order

tyson jackson
terrence cody
sergio kindle
brian orakpo
duke robinson
darius heyward bey
josh freeman
eugene monroe
cj spiller
michael oher
william moore

is that 10? im sure ill have more as the season goes along. its still early. there are still those hidden that will reveal themselves, i just havent seen them yet, but i will at some point


This is the worst top 10 I have ever seen In my life

Tyson jackson is a 3-4 end, whose a 1st rounder but number 1 overall? Are you serious?

Terrence Cody? Your kididng right? Lets break it down here. The guy is a 3-4 prospect only and how many 3-4 DTs go first round? Only Vince Wilfork and he's a good athlete. I saw Terrence Cody chase the Kentucky runningback last week he'd be lucky to run a 5.5 40. He's a 4th-5th rounder at best because his conditioning is piss poor and 3-4 Dts are not taken very high unless they are dominant AND good athletes.

Why on earth do you have Sergio kindle up there? Because he was a highly touted prospect? The dude has done nothing but drink and drive and get in Mack Browns doghouse. Do research and not on potential.

Josh Freeman has top 10 written all over him but has yet to prove he can lead kansas State let alone a NFL franchise. You can't be serious.

CJ Spiller? He has ZERO vision he's just riduculously fast he's a poor mans Feliz Jones and is prolly a 2nd rounder at best

I just busted another myth: That you know what you know what your talking about.

Sniper
10-06-2008, 10:20 AM
Terrence Cody? Your kididng right? Lets break it down here. The guy is a 3-4 prospect only and how many 3-4 DTs go first round? Only Vince Wilfork and he's a good athlete. I saw Terrence Cody chase the Kentucky runningback last week he'd be lucky to run a 5.5 40. He's a 4th-5th rounder at best because his conditioning is piss poor and 3-4 Dts are not taken very high unless they are dominant AND good athletes.



http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/john_donovan/02/02/steelers.dline/t1_hampton_all.jpg

Hi!

BamaFalcon59
10-06-2008, 10:21 AM
This is the worst top 10 I have ever seen In my life

Tyson jackson is a 3-4 end, whose a 1st rounder but number 1 overall? Are you serious?

Terrence Cody? Your kididng right? Lets break it down here. The guy is a 3-4 prospect only and how many 3-4 DTs go first round? Only Vince Wilfork and he's a good athlete. I saw Terrence Cody chase the Kentucky runningback last week he'd be lucky to run a 5.5 40. He's a 4th-5th rounder at best because his conditioning is piss poor and 3-4 Dts are not taken very high unless they are dominant AND good athletes.

Why on earth do you have Sergio kindle up there? Because he was a highly touted prospect? The dude has done nothing but drink and drive and get in Mack Browns doghouse. Do research and not on potential.

Josh Freeman has top 10 written all over him but has yet to prove he can lead kansas State let alone a NFL franchise. You can't be serious.

CJ Spiller? He has ZERO vision he's just riduculously fast he's a poor mans Feliz Jones and is prolly a 2nd rounder at best

I just busted another myth: That you know what you know what your talking about.

He said in no order. He never said Tyson Jackson would be first overall.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-06-2008, 10:23 AM
His list is a joke as is his criteria on which he bases his evaluations off of.

CroomDawgs
10-06-2008, 10:23 AM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/john_donovan/02/02/steelers.dline/t1_hampton_all.jpg

Hi!


Whoops haha still He's a lot more athletic than Cody. Shane Lechler is more athletic than terrence cody

CroomDawgs
10-06-2008, 10:23 AM
He said in no order. He never said Tyson Jackson would be first overall.


The assumption that Tyson Jackson is a top 10 prospect is still off base

Sniper
10-06-2008, 10:24 AM
Whoops haha still He's a lot more athletic than Cody. Shane Lechler is more athletic than terrence cody

I know. Just busting some myths ;)

BamaFalcon59
10-06-2008, 10:31 AM
The assumption that Tyson Jackson is a top 10 prospect is still off base

It's completely reasonable to say Tyson Jackson would go top 10 if the draft were today.

CroomDawgs
10-06-2008, 10:37 AM
It's completely reasonable to say Tyson Jackson would go top 10 if the draft were today.

No its not really He's been average this year and last year And is prolly the 4th or 5th rated end available you really think 5 ends go in the top 10? yea right.

Explain why he should go top 10.

hobbes2053
10-06-2008, 10:58 AM
Mythbusta, I dont know how you can say and defend that Knowshon is no good based off watching only 2 games. Did you see anything from last year? He ran all over Florida and their "amazing" defense. Also, you think Spiller is better than Moreno based off their performances against Bama? There are so many holes in your defense of why Knowshon is no good that you're going against what you've previously said. You clearly only focus on size and speed and nothing else. While those are both important in the league, there are other, more important attributes. Watch some more "film" and get back to us.

BamaFalcon59
10-06-2008, 11:22 AM
No its not really He's been average this year and last year And is prolly the 4th or 5th rated end available you really think 5 ends go in the top 10? yea right.

Explain why he should go top 10.

Let's see. Scott has him 13th overall. That would definitely make him going top 10 reasonable. He is, IMO and many others, the third end behind Johnson and Selvie. Orkapo may jump him, but Johnson may fall. Selvie has concerns of his own. Not to mention Jackson is a 3-4 defensive end, not a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE like the rest of the bunch. The whole area of 10-20 is very close talent wise, not much seperates them. Football's Future has him at 20, which means he could easily rise to the top 10 range. GBN has him going 13, rated 15th.

While he isn't a bonafide top ten prospect at this point, he is in the mix for it.

Mr. Stiller
10-06-2008, 11:40 AM
Let's see. Scott has him 13th overall. That would definitely make him going top 10 reasonable. He is, IMO and many others, the third end behind Johnson and Selvie. Orkapo may jump him, but Johnson may fall. Selvie has concerns of his own. Not to mention Jackson is a 3-4 defensive end, not a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE like the rest of the bunch. The whole area of 10-20 is very close talent wise, not much seperates them. Football's Future has him at 20, which means he could easily rise to the top 10 range. GBN has him going 13, rated 15th.

While he isn't a bonafide top ten prospect at this point, he is in the mix for it.

There's a fairly large group of people that think he was a one year wonder.

I see Tyson battling for a 2nd round pick... I have him between 2-3.

BamaFalcon59
10-06-2008, 12:06 PM
There's a fairly large group of people that think he was a one year wonder.

I see Tyson battling for a 2nd round pick... I have him between 2-3.

Maybe so, but it only takes one team. The thing is that it's not completely unreasonable to say he gos in the top 10. It may be unlikely, but it's not unreasonable.

Mr. Stiller
10-06-2008, 12:11 PM
Maybe so, but it only takes one team. The thing is that it's not completely unreasonable to say he gos in the top 10. It may be unlikely, but it's not unreasonable.

It's not unreasonable to say he could be a first rounder come Senior Bowl... I mean, plenty of teams got excited over Adam Carriker, who IMO, will never live up to his draft status.

But at the same time, he's supposed to be a big dominant defender and he's really not.

Great Sophmore season followed by 2 seasons of pure mediocrity.

BamaFalcon59
10-06-2008, 12:17 PM
The seasons not over, and last time I checked LSU has a pretty good defensive line that Jackson is a big part of.

CroomDawgs
10-06-2008, 02:32 PM
Let's see. Scott has him 13th overall. That would definitely make him going top 10 reasonable. He is, IMO and many others, the third end behind Johnson and Selvie. Orkapo may jump him, but Johnson may fall. Selvie has concerns of his own. Not to mention Jackson is a 3-4 defensive end, not a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE like the rest of the bunch. The whole area of 10-20 is very close talent wise, not much seperates them. Football's Future has him at 20, which means he could easily rise to the top 10 range. GBN has him going 13, rated 15th.

While he isn't a bonafide top ten prospect at this point, he is in the mix for it.

OMG, Scott has him 13th! NO WAY!

Look I love this site but its very early in the draft season. Not to Mention Tyson Jackson last year and so far this year has been sub par, and unless he runs a freak combine and/or has a solid senior bowl he's not gonna move up for subpar on the field efforts. Not to mention throw in juniors and team needs as well.

So lets throw in the factors:
-Unimpressive play the last year and a half
-Rising Juniors/other defensive ends
-Team Needs
-Needs impressive post-season.

Top Ten? Very unlikely. Unreasonable? Possibly

georgiafan
10-06-2008, 02:35 PM
How did this thread turn into a Tyson Jackson debate?

RCAChainGang
10-07-2008, 03:34 PM
If you don't think Tyson Jackson goes in first day then you clearly have not been watching him bro.

RCAChainGang
10-07-2008, 03:34 PM
How did this thread turn into a Tyson Jackson debate?

Mythbusta's idiocy

keylime_5
10-07-2008, 04:03 PM
Whoops haha still He's a lot more athletic than Cody. Shane Lechler is more athletic than terrence cody

athleticism is not so much the problem with Cody as his technique, hands, feet, and the fact that he relies on sheer strength and size to overpower linemen and nothing else. He needs to lose a lot of weight before we can call him anything more than a 2nd rounder at best too. He's far from being a first rounder at this point, granted he is only a junior.

CroomDawgs
10-08-2008, 12:44 AM
athleticism is not so much the problem with Cody as his technique, hands, feet, and the fact that he relies on sheer strength and size to overpower linemen and nothing else. He needs to lose a lot of weight before we can call him anything more than a 2nd rounder at best too. He's far from being a first rounder at this point, granted he is only a junior.


I agree. He's nothing more than a 3-4 DT at this point, who aren't taken really high to begin with

CroomDawgs
10-08-2008, 12:44 AM
If you don't think Tyson Jackson goes in first day then you clearly have not been watching him bro.

Please point out when I said He won't go first day

giantsfan
10-08-2008, 12:46 AM
If he shows up in Indy in much better shape I wouldn't mind to see the gmen drafting him with the saints pick in round two, but he's really going to prove to teams he can have the stamina to play heavy snaps in the NFL and that he can learn to use his hands as well, as long as shows promise in those areas he'll get picked on day one by someone.

RCAChainGang
10-19-2008, 06:51 PM
Please point out when I said He won't go first day

I wasn't talking to you I was talking to Mythbusta.

Get over yourself.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 06:58 PM
im so happy this came up i knew it would come back. i dont even have to read the posts. those toss sweeps he got all his yards on vs that great vanderbilt squad swimming with freaks is the ultimate measuring stick. again with so much outstanding nfl talent, their offense continues to struggle even vs the weakest of competition. i know vandy was ranked, but we all know they were never the 22nd best team in the country. this is what is called a stat padder like valdosta st and ga southern. if he comes back next week vs lsu and can run the ball between the tackles effectively and has a nice game then ill be impressed. but getting big yards because the defense is so athletically inferior that you can run toss sweeps all day long isnt anything to me.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 07:10 PM
im so happy this came up i knew it would come back. i dont even have to read the posts. those toss sweeps he got all his yards on vs that great vanderbilt squad swimming with freaks is the ultimate measuring stick. again with so much outstanding nfl talent, their offense continues to struggle even vs the weakest of competition. i know vandy was ranked, but we all know they were never the 22nd best team in the country. this is what is called a stat padder like valdosta st and ga southern. if he comes back next week vs lsu and can run the ball between the tackles effectively and has a nice game then ill be impressed. but getting big yards because the defense is so athletically inferior that you can run toss sweeps all day long isnt anything to me.


You have to try to imagine running behind a line that starts 4 freshmen in the SEC. I will take Moreno and Stafford any day of the week

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 07:15 PM
there it is again someone elses fault. well see what happens this week vs lsu. if he goes in there and gets some nice runs between the tackles and they move the ball effectively. but he hasnt done it yet this year. its been all toss sweeps every time.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 07:20 PM
slow as molasses.
slow
his speed is terrible.
hes too slow to fully exploit it.

its been all toss sweeps every time.

In order for toss sweeps to work, you need a speedy RB who can get to the corner. So, what's the deal?

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 07:24 PM
there it is again someone elses fault. well see what happens this week vs lsu. if he goes in there and gets some nice runs between the tackles and they move the ball effectively. but he hasnt done it yet this year. its been all toss sweeps every time. You know 11 guys are on the football field right.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 07:27 PM
there it is again someone elses fault. well see what happens this week vs lsu. if he goes in there and gets some nice runs between the tackles and they move the ball effectively. but he hasnt done it yet this year. its been all toss sweeps every time.

They lost Trinton Sturdevant early on this season and just lost Vince Vance so now you're down to backups to the backups. I dont know if you ever played football but you dont go too far with a lousy offensive line. Moreno had a great game saturday at least give him credit for that and Stafford basically gets knocked down on every pass play. Try to be somewhat objective.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 07:30 PM
ok the whole someone elses fault thing dosnt work. great players elevate their teams. they dont need other players to be great. like i said, well see vs lsu. theres another litmus test coming up. they both came up acid burning avoid like the plague vs bama

Paranoidmoonduck
10-19-2008, 07:36 PM
I'll say this about Moreno: I think he's only going to be hurt by the scrutiny that leaving for the draft brings. One knock that seemed to dampen Jonathan Stewart's stock earlier this year was that he was a one speed player. Moreno is the same way, but he's not anywhere near as big or strong as Stewart (and I'm not sure his one speed is any faster). You never want to underestimate a guy like Moreno who has such great vision and cutback ability, but I'm fairly sure I don't see a top notch NFL runner in Knowshon.

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 07:50 PM
ok the whole someone elses fault thing dosnt work. great players elevate their teams. they dont need other players to be great. like i said, well see vs lsu. theres another litmus test coming up. they both came up acid burning avoid like the plague vs bama American Football is the ultimate team sport. For a play to be succesful all 11 players need to do their job. I can't believe I need to explain this.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 08:16 PM
ok the whole someone elses fault thing dosnt work. great players elevate their teams. they dont need other players to be great. like i said, well see vs lsu. theres another litmus test coming up. they both came up acid burning avoid like the plague vs bama


Obviously you've never played football, try golf or bowling.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 08:42 PM
in order for sweeps to work you need to pay against slow defenses that you can beat to the corner with a slow as molasses back like moreno. im going to table any other arguments from me until after this next stretch. im sorry but 172 vs vandy doesnt mean anything. just like it doesnt mean anything vs ga southern. 30 yds vs bama means something. i cant believe that the hope for him has dwindled to celebrating performances vs vanderbilt. im smelling some desperation from the priests of the moreno god. lets see how he does in this next stretch

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 08:50 PM
in order for sweeps to work you need to pay against slow defenses that you can beat to the corner with a slow as molasses back like moreno. im going to table any other arguments from me until after this next stretch. im sorry but 172 vs vandy doesnt mean anything. just like it doesnt mean anything vs ga southern. 30 yds vs bama means something. i cant believe that the hope for him has dwindled to celebrating performances vs vanderbilt. im smelling some desperation from the priests of the moreno god. lets see how he does in this next stretch "Desparation from the priests of the Moreno god".Dude you have yet to make a reasonable argument about anything.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 08:58 PM
there are a slew of arguments all over this thread as to why hes not an nfl star. the gauntlet starts again this week. well see how he does. his first two tests, barely a passing grade vs sc, and a flat out F vs bama. im going to need to see at least a solid performance in these next few games against the top end. just cause they say it on tv dont mean its true. see glenn dorsey.

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 09:17 PM
there are a slew of arguments all over this thread as to why hes not an nfl star. the gauntlet starts again this week. well see how he does. his first two tests, barely a passing grade vs sc, and a flat out F vs bama. im going to need to see at least a solid performance in these next few games against the top end. just cause they say it on tv dont mean its true. see glenn dorsey. You should do a ranking of who you think are the best players in the NFL. Cause I am curious to see what you think is a great NFL player.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 09:49 PM
probably wouldnt look anything like any of your lists

CroomDawgs
10-19-2008, 11:55 PM
I wasn't talking to you I was talking to Mythbusta.

Get over yourself.

Well if you bothered to read.. which you didn't, Mythabusta thinks Jackson is a top 10 pick, I said he was borderline first rounder.

So, let's try again sparky, who were u talking to?

CroomDawgs
10-19-2008, 11:57 PM
Figures mythbusta would call a 170 yard performance a fluke. Wow

Mr. Stiller
10-20-2008, 04:07 AM
http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?year=2008&org=8

Alabama is:

#4 in the Nation in Rushing Defense
#17 in the Nation in Pass Efficiency Defense
#16 in the Nation in Total Defense.


Meaning. EVERYONE STRUGGLES TO RUN AGAINST THEM.

You're on Spillers nuts Myth.. he did jack **** against Bama.. (But he's got ssssssthpeed.)

Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky.. etc. No one has run well on them


I can get every RB in the NFL, and Compare them when they ran against a top 10 ranked defense and I bet you'll see a bunch of Elite RB's with 20-50 yard games against good running defenses..

eaglesalltheway
10-20-2008, 06:36 AM
there it is again someone elses fault. well see what happens this week vs lsu. if he goes in there and gets some nice runs between the tackles and they move the ball effectively. but he hasnt done it yet this year. its been all toss sweeps every time.

No, its called a team. Football is a team sport! Anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't understand football! And you sir, do not understand that! You would rather pin all the blame on one person for a teams' failure, than acutally watch an entire game and see that everone else on the field contributed, whether it be in a positive or negative manner. Pklus, bringing up a game where someone you are bashing puts up 150+ isn't exactly a good time to do it, no matter how bad the defnese he is playing against. Stop ignoring all the factors, and use the whole equation, not just the ones that you think help you prove your point.

eaglesalltheway
10-20-2008, 06:38 AM
ok the whole someone elses fault thing dosnt work. great players elevate their teams. they dont need other players to be great. like i said, well see vs lsu. theres another litmus test coming up. they both came up acid burning avoid like the plague vs bama

great players, elevate their teams, eh? Last I checked Georgia has one loss and is ranked top 10 in the country. Doesn't get much better than that busta.

eaglesalltheway
10-20-2008, 06:41 AM
No, its called a team. Football is a team sport! Anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't understand football! And you sir, do not understand that! You would rather pin all the blame on one person for a teams' failure, than acutally watch an entire game and see that everone else on the field contributed, whether it be in a positive or negative manner. Pklus, bringing up a game where someone you are bashing puts up 150+ isn't exactly a good time to do it, no matter how bad the defnese he is playing against. Stop ignoring all the factors, and use the whole equation, not just the ones that you think help you prove your point.

Bringing this here. needs to be seen.

georgiafan
10-20-2008, 08:15 AM
Moreno auctally had a few holes to run through this week and he averaged 7.5 yards on 23 carries. Next week will be a big test with the young OL agianst LSU's DL.

STARHEATHER
10-21-2008, 10:21 PM
thats the problem. he requires holes

Staubach12
10-21-2008, 10:23 PM
thats the problem. he requires holes

Every RB will fail if he has no holes. Your ideas blow me away. The ignorance and stupidity is incredible.

BamaFalcon59
10-21-2008, 10:28 PM
LOL.

Oh, and then there are the double standards.

Moreno- Moreno not having a good offensive line is an excuse, and good players elevate their play
Stafford- Stafford looks good because he is on a good team
Josh Freeman- Freeman looks not as good because he is on a bad team, but that is not an excuse

STARHEATHER
10-21-2008, 10:28 PM
in the nfl, you often have to find and create your own holes.you still are expected to run the ball effectively in limited space. i dont think he can do that. hes a space player with out the big play ability.hes reggie bush without the 4.3 speed and freaky jukes and return ability. great runners get yards when there are no holes

Staubach12
10-21-2008, 10:39 PM
in the nfl, you often have to find and create your own holes.you still are expected to run the ball effectively in limited space. i dont think he can do that. hes a space player with out the big play ability.hes reggie bush without the 4.3 speed and freaky jukes and return ability. great runners get yards when there are no holes

I'm not even going to keep talking about this. Your ignorance speaks for itself.

STARHEATHER
10-21-2008, 11:08 PM
i know youre right. every su nday theres gaping holes out there to run through. theres just daylight galore. you must be watching chiefs games or something. against my team, that kind of thing doesnt happen much. if youre going to run the ball effectively vs my team, you better break some tackles and get something out of nothing. or you arent going to get much.

eaglesalltheway
10-22-2008, 06:59 AM
i know youre right. every su nday theres gaping holes out there to run through. theres just daylight galore. you must be watching chiefs games or something. against my team, that kind of thing doesnt happen much. if youre going to run the ball effectively vs my team, you better break some tackles and get something out of nothing. or you arent going to get much.

Out of curiosity, who is your team?

eaglesalltheway
10-22-2008, 07:03 AM
in the nfl, you often have to find and create your own holes.you still are expected to run the ball effectively in limited space. i dont think he can do that. hes a space player with out the big play ability.hes reggie bush without the 4.3 speed and freaky jukes and return ability. great runners get yards when there are no holes

But more often than that, you must go through the holes that have been designed by your scheme. I'll bet you are a lonely guy who does nothing but watch football and thinks that they know a lot about it because they see it a lot. [sarcasm]Eric Dickerson made all 2,000+ yards happen on his own, and the reason for that is he is good at making his own holes. No other RB has ever been as good at making their own holes as him in a season, so his record still stands.[sarcasm/] I love how you say RBs using their given hole is a negative thing. It is called vision and awareness. What is a R B supposed to do, see a ghole and then run away from it?

CroomDawgs
10-22-2008, 10:32 AM
Out of curiosity, who is your team?

Prolly New England, since he expects perfection and thinks everyone else sucks

CroomDawgs
10-22-2008, 10:33 AM
thats the problem. he requires holes:eek: Oh..my..god

You might, no YOU are the most clueless man alive

giantsfan
10-22-2008, 01:17 PM
I'm going to come out and admit that I am a monk at my local Knowshon convent, seeing as he's the only college RB who makes his own holes we worship the man for being able to run where there is no room. Knowshon doesn't need a team, just hand him the rock and his cutback skills will break the ankles of all 11 defenders with one move. Honestly if you had a team full of Knowshon's versus a team full of cloned brett favres...the world would explode.

illmatic74
10-22-2008, 01:24 PM
in the nfl, you often have to find and create your own holes.you still are expected to run the ball effectively in limited space. i dont think he can do that. hes a space player with out the big play ability.hes reggie bush without the 4.3 speed and freaky jukes and return ability. great runners get yards when there are no holes Then why pay offensive lineman.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 01:59 PM
im tabling any rebuttals until after the next game. i expect to have plenty to say after that. if i see a near c note or better and some nice between tackles running vs lsu then maybe my opinion could change. if i see toss sweeps all day and a performance like bama and sc hes in the g file because that will be 3 in a row against their competition level that he wasnt good.

georgiafan
10-22-2008, 02:30 PM
Just incase anyone doesn't know 9 of the 11 starters on offense for UGA are freshman or sophmores. Including all the OL, FB, and TE which is everyone that blocks for Moreno. So you have all freshman/sophmores going up aganst what could be the best DL in the country. UGA hasn't been able to run between the tackles this year so I don't see that changing this week.

Also you said great players elevate there teams and despite playing starting 9 of 11 freshman/sophmore on offense. UGA leads the SEC with over 400 yards a game. The only bad thing is they have had to settle for to many FG's.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 02:34 PM
its time for knowshon to produce against a good team. its time for the excuses to be over. in the nfl its a good chance youll go to a team with ol troubles. its not an excuse. you still have to produce. so he needs to show something special in this game. hes failed the first two tests. he needs an A to save his grade vs lsu

CashmoneyDrew
10-22-2008, 02:41 PM
its time for knowshon to produce against a good team. its time for the excuses to be over. in the nfl its a good chance youll go to a team with ol troubles. its not an excuse. you still have to produce. so he needs to show something special in this game. hes failed the first two tests. he needs an A to save his grade vs lsu

Only in your opinion though.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 02:43 PM
you must not have a job or a really cool job where they allow you to post all the time

CashmoneyDrew
10-22-2008, 02:44 PM
you must not have a job or a really cool job where they allow you to post all the time

I'm actually an unemployed college student.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 02:50 PM
im jealous

CashmoneyDrew
10-22-2008, 02:52 PM
I know. And I'm unemployed by choice. It's sweet isn't it?

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 02:53 PM
enjoy it while it lasts

eaglesalltheway
10-22-2008, 03:10 PM
im tabling any rebuttals until after the next game. i expect to have plenty to say after that. if i see a near c note or better and some nice between tackles running vs lsu then maybe my opinion could change. if i see toss sweeps all day and a performance like bama and sc hes in the g file because that will be 3 in a row against their competition level that he wasnt good.

Your tabling your rebuttals because you have none. You are wrong and you are doing everything you can not to prove so. Funny thing is I see thorugh it and so does everyone else.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 03:53 PM
im betting he has a bad game this week. then wehen he does im going to talk about his 3rd consecutive subpar performance against top competition. and how he cant run between tackles. and how hes slow and undersize. and then hes going to go out there and prove it on the field this weekend for the 3rd consecutive time vs top defense.

Mr. Stiller
10-22-2008, 05:31 PM
im betting he has a bad game this week. then wehen he does im going to talk about his 3rd consecutive subpar performance against top competition. and how he cant run between tackles. and how hes slow and undersize. and then hes going to go out there and prove it on the field this weekend for the 3rd consecutive time vs top defense.

But it's not Josh Freemans fault he's on a bad team.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-22-2008, 05:35 PM
Ya good thing he helps his team win the games by doing what he needs to do. Does Freeman help win games when his completion percentage is below .500?

CashmoneyDrew
10-22-2008, 05:38 PM
Ya good thing he helps his team win the games by doing what he needs to do. Does Freeman help win games when his completion percentage is below .500?

Yup. No one should want Drew Brees as their QB because he hasn't won the big games. Josh Freeman has though. He has how many championships again? lol

Mr. Stiller
10-22-2008, 05:43 PM
Yup. No one should want Drew Brees as their QB because he hasn't won the big games. Josh Freeman has though. He has how many championships again? lol

And Frank Gore.. He doesn't break a lot of Tackles and he doesn't run a 4.3.. He HAS to be a bad RB

giantsfan
10-22-2008, 05:57 PM
im betting he has a bad game this week. then wehen he does im going to talk about his 3rd consecutive subpar performance against top competition. and how he cant run between tackles. and how hes slow and undersize. and then hes going to go out there and prove it on the field this weekend for the 3rd consecutive time vs top defense.

10 bucks, he has a 100 yards rushing if he gets 15 carries or more. If I win I want a picture of you handing a hobo 10 dollars, and I'll know from the expression on your face if he's a real hobo.

Saints-Tigers
10-22-2008, 05:58 PM
10 bucks, he has a 100 yards rushing if he gets 15 carries or more. If I win I want a picture of you handing a hobo 10 dollars, and I'll know from the expression on your face if he's a real hobo.

What, are you some sort of expert on top end hobo traits?

MitchRobStew
10-22-2008, 07:06 PM
Moreno will be a solid pro. He has very good hips and balance. He has a good enough balance of power and speed to make it. When his line is actually blocking he has success, much like any running back he needs holes. He has a skill set that will translate well. Probably like Clinton Portis. I have no I idea why mythstarter hates him so much.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-22-2008, 07:38 PM
Because he only thinks physical attributes matter.

Halsey
10-23-2008, 12:13 AM
There's always bozos who blow critisms of a player out of proportion. Knowshon doesn't have 'elite straight line speed'. That doesn't mean he's slow, but there's always someone who tries to spin it that way. That same type of people spun Matt Ryan's lack of elite arm strength into "OMG he's got a noodle arm!". Fans like that get attention for making ridiculous statements and annoying people, not for being reasonable.

eaglesalltheway
10-23-2008, 06:46 AM
Your tabling your rebuttals because you have none. You are wrong and you are doing everything you can not to prove so. Funny thing is I see thorugh it and so does everyone else.

Care to respond?

eaglesalltheway
10-23-2008, 06:48 AM
im betting he has a bad game this week. then wehen he does im going to talk about his 3rd consecutive subpar performance against top competition. and how he cant run between tackles. and how hes slow and undersize. and then hes going to go out there and prove it on the field this weekend for the 3rd consecutive time vs top defense.

Personally I don't think he will have a good game either, but that is because LSU has a good TEAM defense. But what happens if Moreno has a good performance. Are you gonna own up and say you may be wrong, no, you are going to spill useless drivel and say he got lucky.

georgiafan
10-23-2008, 07:15 AM
Personally I don't think he will have a good game either, but that is because LSU has a good TEAM defense. But what happens if Moreno has a good performance. Are you gonna own up and say you may be wrong, no, you are going to spill useless drivel and say he got lucky.

He will say It won't matter since most of his yards will come on sweeps.

eaglesalltheway
10-23-2008, 02:51 PM
He will say It won't matter since most of his yards will come on sweeps.

Or there were holes that he ran thorugh zzzOMFGzzz.

eaglesalltheway
10-25-2008, 06:02 PM
Hey heather, care to refute what Moreno did tonight? Played pretty well if you ask me.

etk
10-25-2008, 06:11 PM
http://cekirdek.pardus.org.tr/~caglar/DontFeedTheTroll.jpg

CashmoneyDrew
10-25-2008, 06:19 PM
He'll find SOMETHING to bash. Anyways, I guess I missed something, but why was mythstarter's name changed to starheather?

etk
10-25-2008, 06:25 PM
I think it was a joke by one of the mods. Pretty funny if you ask me.

CashmoneyDrew
10-25-2008, 06:26 PM
I don't get the name. Maybe I'm just really slow today or something.

iBoldin
10-25-2008, 06:29 PM
I don't get the name. Maybe I'm just really slow today or something.

It was his name on FF, before he graced us with his glory.

STARHEATHER
10-25-2008, 06:29 PM
what we learned about knowshon today.
1. the only play you can use him on is a toss play
2. charles scott is better
3. cant run between tackles
4. he is the same speed as darry beckwith


just like i said previously in this thread. unless your offense is going to be predicated on the toss sweep. he is an usable and undraftable player. can you really see slow as darry beckwith 200 lb back getting to the outside in the nfl on toss weeps with regularity. you certainly cant hand him the ball and expect him to get much between the tackles. its all just as i said it would be. i hope a team wastes a high pick. this dude, with his darry beckwith speed, has no chance. none zero zip nada never.

P-L
10-25-2008, 06:29 PM
I think I read that it's his name on another forum. I could be wrong though.

CashmoneyDrew
10-25-2008, 06:31 PM
what we learned about knowshon today.
1. the only play you can use him on is a toss play
2. charles scott is better
3. cant run between tackles
4. he is the same speed as darry beckwith


just like i said previously in this thread. unless your offense is going to be predicated on the toss sweep. he is an usable and undraftable player. can you really see slow as darry beckwith 200 lb back getting to the outside in the nfl on toss weeps with regularity. you certainly cant hand him the ball and expect him to get much between the tackles. its all just as i said it would be. i hope a team wastes a high pick. this dude, with his darry beckwith speed, has no chance. none zero zip nada never.

I knew he'd find some lame ass excuses. It's funny because the long runs I saw him break were up the middle of the defense.
Your dinner is ready StarHeather. Crow for you tonight.

etk
10-25-2008, 06:32 PM
what we learned about knowshon today.
1. the only play you can use him on is a toss play
2. charles scott is better
3. cant run between tackles
4. he is the same speed as darry beckwith


just like i said previously in this thread. unless your offense is going to be predicated on the toss sweep. he is an usable and undraftable player. can you really see slow as darry beckwith 200 lb back getting to the outside in the nfl on toss weeps with regularity. you certainly cant hand him the ball and expect him to get much between the tackles. its all just as i said it would be. i hope a team wastes a high pick. this dude, with his darry beckwith speed, has no chance. none zero zip nada never.

I'm not gonna answer your more ridiculous arguments like the Beckwith one, but I will say that lots of NFL teams run toss plays (or Zone O as they call it) with slow backs. It's all about patience, vision and cutbacks....all traits Moreno possesses. Earnest Graham is definitely slower than Moreno and he's very good on toss plays.

CashmoneyDrew
10-25-2008, 06:34 PM
I think calling Moreno slow is a misnomer. He's not blazing like CJ Spiller, but he's not a plodder either. 4.45 to 4.5ish.

renegade
10-25-2008, 06:36 PM
Oh god, I hate Starheather. Yes he is a member at FF (I think he was banned). All he does is stuff like this, he bashes players that are perfectly fine. Then when you disagree he resorts to name calling and acting like he is better than you. He was banned from FF for making people mad on purpose.

Hmmm....

NO-Shon.... I see what you did there.

I think that KNOWSHON is a fine prospect, great vision, suprisingly powerful, solid 4.4 speed and he is athletic as well. Not the greatest physically but he has a knack for finding seams in the game. I'd say that he is similar to Cadillac Williams, only less injury prone. I like him alot.

djp
10-25-2008, 06:38 PM
Oh god, I hate Starheather. Yes he is a member at FF (I think he was banned). All he does is stuff like this, he bashes players that are perfectly fine. Then when you disagree he resorts to name calling and acting like he is better than you. He was banned from FF for making people mad on purpose.

Hmmm....

NO-Shon.... I see what you did there.

I think that KNOWSHON is a fine prospect, great vision, suprisingly powerful, solid 4.4 speed and he is athletic as well. Not the greatest physically but he has a knack for finding seams in the game. I'd say that he is similar to Cadillac Williams, only less injury prone. I like him alot.

he is a lot like Cadillac Williams. I totally forgot about Caddy. Nice.

STARHEATHER
10-25-2008, 06:38 PM
really. i guess darry beckwith has 4.45 speed too. i guess every run wasnt a toss sweep. just like i said previously in this thread. he did nothing in this game to discount what ive said.

CashmoneyDrew
10-25-2008, 06:41 PM
really. i guess darry beckwith has 4.45 speed too. i guess every run wasnt a toss sweep. just like i said previously in this thread. he did nothing in this game to discount what ive said.

I see a lot of words but they just look like wah wah wah wah wah. I'm wrong again. wah wah wah wah. More excuses. wah wah wah wah.

renegade
10-25-2008, 06:45 PM
really. i guess darry beckwith has 4.45 speed too. i guess every run wasnt a toss sweep. just like i said previously in this thread. he did nothing in this game to discount what ive said.

Not to say that Beckwith has 4.45 speed but he is a pretty athletic guy. In fact that is what some people consider his strength. Beckwith is considered a WLB prospect by most and is also known as a side-line to side-line player.

Also just because someone caught someone doesn't mean they're as fast as someone. Take for example Micheal Hamlin catching Darrius Heyward-Bey from behind, are you going to tell me that Hamlin is as fast as DHB who has low 4.3 speed? No, stuff like that happens. I didn't watch the game you're talking about so I don't know what happened but, I'm going to guess that Beckwith had an angle.

BTW, I bet your going to bash Beckwith by saying he sucks because he is too small and doesn't have great triangle numbers, which is from what I've gathered is your end all judment standard for players which could explain you crazy love for Josh Freeman (I know all that from FF).

Babylon
10-25-2008, 06:54 PM
When you start dogging someone after they've had a great game against a good team you sort of lose whatever credibility you had.

Halsey
10-25-2008, 06:54 PM
:D Trolls who make threads like these are always too stubborn to admit they were wrong. They are dime-a-dozen and predictable. At least the rest of us know who not to take seriously.

eaglesalltheway
10-25-2008, 06:56 PM
what we learned about knowshon today.
1. the only play you can use him on is a toss play
2. charles scott is better
3. cant run between tackles
4. he is the same speed as darry beckwith


just like i said previously in this thread. unless your offense is going to be predicated on the toss sweep. he is an usable and undraftable player. can you really see slow as darry beckwith 200 lb back getting to the outside in the nfl on toss weeps with regularity. you certainly cant hand him the ball and expect him to get much between the tackles. its all just as i said it would be. i hope a team wastes a high pick. this dude, with his darry beckwith speed, has no chance. none zero zip nada never.

OK heather, here is where you get yours. Both of "No-shon's: biggest running plays were in between the tackles. His TD went between the gap of the LG and LT (between the tackles, isn't it guys...;)) His other was almost right up the middle, right between the C and LG they even highlighted the Center on the replay. Both of which the LSU defenders had clogged the designated hole for him to run to, but he showed good vision and patience to cut back into those holes and rip off big gains.

Knowshon may not be the fastest guy, but he has enough adequate speed to be a fine RB in the NFL. Emmit Smith was labelled as slow, look where that got him, the leading rusher in NFL history. In no way am I saying Moreno will be that, but you are here jabbering abouthow you need insane speed to be a good RB in the NFL, when in reality you don't. There are tons of players at RB who are in the Hall of fame or have gone on to many pro-bowls or have had successful careers without incredible speed. On a side note, I haven't been the biggest supporter of Stafford, but he has begun to show me some things that I am beginning to like himmore than this time last month.

STARHEATHER
10-25-2008, 06:57 PM
on a toss play. just like i said. both of his long runs were toss plays

Bruce Banner
10-25-2008, 06:57 PM
STARHEATHER=mythbusta?

eaglesalltheway
10-25-2008, 06:58 PM
really. i guess darry beckwith has 4.45 speed too. i guess every run wasnt a toss sweep. just like i said previously in this thread. he did nothing in this game to discount what ive said.

Except put up 125+ on one of the top ten defneses in the country...oops, forget to mention that heather?

CashmoneyDrew
10-25-2008, 06:59 PM
on a toss play. just like i said. both of his long runs were toss plays

That's inconsequential. He went up the middle on those tosses. Fail. Epic Fail.

eaglesalltheway
10-25-2008, 06:59 PM
When you start dogging someone after they've had a great game against a good team you sort of lose whatever credibility you had.

He lkost that a long, long LONG time ago.

Babylon
10-25-2008, 07:00 PM
STARHEATHER=mythbusta?


One of his many aliases i'm sure.

eaglesalltheway
10-25-2008, 07:00 PM
STARHEATHER=mythbusta?

yes, but its just heather now

Babylon
10-25-2008, 07:01 PM
That's inconsequential. He went up the middle on those tosses. Fail. Epic Fail.


I was impressed with Moreno and Stafford but that O-line uncharacteristically gave them the time and holes they needed.

eaglesalltheway
10-25-2008, 07:02 PM
on a toss play. just like i said. both of his long runs were toss plays

So what is he supposed to do, run backwards if the ball is pitched to him, honestly, you are making less and less sense as the posts add up. It still doesn't change that he ran between the tackles on his biggest plays of the game. You lie, you are wrong, and you jsut won't face those facts. You are the biggest egomaniac I have ever come across.

eaglesalltheway
10-25-2008, 07:04 PM
I figured this thread would blow up, actually surprised it took as long as it did, but I'm gonna watch OSU-PSU now and if I feel like it I will check back to see heather futile attempt at an argument to back this up.

STARHEATHER
10-25-2008, 07:06 PM
but it was all on toss plays. nothing on handoffs between the tackles. i didnt say he played poorly. i just said he didnt do any of the things i wanted to see him do. he goty all his yards on toss plays and as seen by his darry beckwth speed that was also reaffirmed that hes slow as molasses. he had a decent game. when no one touched him. although i did see himbreak a db tackle, which was a first. ive just never seen an undersize back with slow speed who cant run between the tackles having success in the nfl these days. but i guess hes the next level of nfl back. hes the guy whos going to show small slow backs can get it done in the nfl. just dont see any knowshon moreno clones clones doing anything in the nfl right now. but i guess since he had 150 today that means he will. i guess well find out

renegade
10-25-2008, 07:10 PM
Wow, I just saw the play you were talking about on the highligh reel and I have one question...

Are you kidding me, thats the play you are bashing Moreno on? lol.. epic failz

Babylon
10-25-2008, 07:16 PM
but it was all on toss plays. nothing on handoffs between the tackles. i didnt say he played poorly. i just said he didnt do any of the things i wanted to see him do. he goty all his yards on toss plays and as seen by his darry beckwth speed that was also reaffirmed that hes slow as molasses. he had a decent game. when no one touched him. although i did see himbreak a db tackle, which was a first. ive just never seen an undersize back with slow speed who cant run between the tackles having success in the nfl these days. but i guess hes the next level of nfl back. hes the guy whos going to show small slow backs can get it done in the nfl. just dont see any knowshon moreno clones clones doing anything in the nfl right now. but i guess since he had 150 today that means he will. i guess well find out

Their tosses are like sprint draw plays, the back reads the hole and today he turned a few of them back between the tackles. He sort of runs like Cadillac, Marion Barber or Thomas Jones so i think there are enough samples to draw from. If you ever want to be taken serious try to be flexible once in awhile.

LonghornsLegend
10-25-2008, 07:19 PM
i didnt say he played poorly.



forget about this dude ever being an effective nfl back unless he puts on 20 and drops 2 tenths. slow as molasses. he ran a sweep in the game to the wide side and terrence cody was closing on him. undersize+ slow= no chance to be an nfl back..

Really????

CroomDawgs
10-25-2008, 08:40 PM
what we learned about knowshon today.
1. the only play you can use him on is a toss play
2. charles scott is better
3. cant run between tackles
4. he is the same speed as darry beckwith


just like i said previously in this thread. unless your offense is going to be predicated on the toss sweep. he is an usable and undraftable player. can you really see slow as darry beckwith 200 lb back getting to the outside in the nfl on toss weeps with regularity. you certainly cant hand him the ball and expect him to get much between the tackles. its all just as i said it would be. i hope a team wastes a high pick. this dude, with his darry beckwith speed, has no chance. none zero zip nada never.


You are unbelievable. You were wrong, deal with it. He just got 163 yards on a solid defense, and both his long runs he ran THROUGH THE MIDDLE off the tosses. You are a moron and have zero credibility. Leave this site now. You are not welcome here

princefielder28
10-25-2008, 08:41 PM
You are unbelievable. You were wrong, deal with it. He just got 163 yards on a solid defense, and both his long runs he ran THROUGH THE MIDDLE off the tosses. You are a moron and have zero credibility. Leave this site now. You are not welcome here

I am PF28 and I support this message

eaglesalltheway
10-26-2008, 09:17 AM
I am PF28 and I support this message

In a rare stunt never seen before in the history of anything, any and all parties support this message.

Sniper
10-26-2008, 09:25 AM
but it was all on toss plays. nothing on handoffs between the tackles.

His long TD was a toss....and then he cut it back inside, broke a tackle and scored. Straight up the middle.

eaglesalltheway
10-26-2008, 09:26 AM
but it was all on toss plays. nothing on handoffs between the tackles. i didnt say he played poorly. i just said he didnt do any of the things i wanted to see him do. he goty all his yards on toss plays and as seen by his darry beckwth speed that was also reaffirmed that hes slow as molasses. he had a decent game. when no one touched him. although i did see himbreak a db tackle, which was a first. ive just never seen an undersize back with slow speed who cant run between the tackles having success in the nfl these days. but i guess hes the next level of nfl back. hes the guy whos going to show small slow backs can get it done in the nfl. just dont see any knowshon moreno clones clones doing anything in the nfl right now. but i guess since he had 150 today that means he will. i guess well find out

What don't you understand about between the tackles. Is there a two foot wide strip that you consider between the tackles?

Moreno had 163 total yards. His two biggest plays were a 69 yarder and and 45ish yarder, I believe. At most that is 115 yards. Those were pitches yes, but where did that other 50 or so yards come from? The simple truth is you don't understand the basics of football, let alone the little details that are importnat to even grasping the game.

Decent? Like I said before, anyone who puts up 125+ on a (then) top ten defnese had a good game for a RB. LEt alone haveing 163. Oh and lets also remember he had at least 5 or 6 receptions as well. He may have had over 200 total yards, I don't know how many receiveing yards he had, but I'd bet he is really close if not over 200.

As to your crap about small slow backs not succeeding in the NFL... That is how you see him. Yeah is is small, he may be slow... But like I said before Emmitt Smith, the NFL rushing record holder was billed the same way entering the NFL, and look where that got him. How about you respnd to htat heather? You keep on saying no one is bringing up credible evidence when indeed they are, you just ignore it and spout your worthless excuse for words. Respond to this, im telling you now, respond to it if you wish to have any respect, any respect at all, even for yourself.

eaglesalltheway
10-26-2008, 09:30 AM
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to STARHEATHER again...

I have seen that message about 563 times in the last two days...

herschel4heisman
10-26-2008, 11:05 AM
im betting he has a bad game this week. then wehen he does im going to talk about his 3rd consecutive subpar performance against top competition. and how he cant run between tackles. and how hes slow and undersize. and then hes going to go out there and prove it on the field this weekend for the 3rd consecutive time vs top defense.

You were so wrong. He had a big game against what even you admit is top competition. His two long runs were between the tackles. The fact that you say he can't run between the tackles is unequivocally wrong. Against Florida last year, he had 188 yds on 30+ carries and only one or two of his big plays were on toss plays. The rest were handoffs between the tackles. Click the link below for his runs against UF and you'll only see one toss play. The reason why we toss the ball more this year is because we have the true freshman starting on the OL and they haven't been stout enough to handle the SEC DTs head on. But last year most of his runs were hand offs when we had more experience on the line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Zdkm-RAYo - Moreno's highlights vs UF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfUi7rCp1Io&feature=related - UGA vs Auburn - only one toss play. the rest were handoffs and he got 100yds 2tds against an auburn defense that hadn't allowed a 100 yd rusher all year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QMkZiSt-xw his highlights of the 2007 season where most of his big plays were handoffs between the tackle

As for his size, he's 5ft 10 in and he weighs 210 lbs. He's bigger than several RBs who is having success in this league, such as Brian Westbrook, Steve Slaton (who's having success as a rookie), and maurice jones drew. He reminds me a lot of Thurman Thomas because Thurman wasn't a bigger running back nor was he overly fast. Thurman weighed 200lbs without above average speed for a RB and that's why he slipped in the draft and now he's in the hall of fame. Emmitt Smith was 190lbs as a freshman and when he left UF he weighed 200lbs and we all know how his career went. If you're not really big or really fast, as running back you can compensate by having great vision and making good decisions and Moreno does that. So your size/speed argument holds no water.

bored of education
10-26-2008, 11:11 AM
He doesnt have great break away speed, but he will be a feature back in the nfl. im still trying to figure out who I would compare him to.

CashmoneyDrew
10-26-2008, 11:12 AM
He doesnt have great break away speed, but he will be a feature back in the nfl. im still trying to figure out who I would compare him to.

Cadillac Williams and Clinton Portis come up the most.

TickOffOurBestPlayer
10-26-2008, 11:20 AM
He doesnt have great break away speed, but he will be a feature back in the nfl. im still trying to figure out who I would compare him to.


I don't think there is any single back you can compare him to because he shows shades of Marion Barber, Curtis Martin, Caddy and Preist Holmes.

The only thing STARHEATHER has said correct in this entire thread is that Charles Scott is better.

LonghornsLegend
10-26-2008, 11:24 AM
He's an exact Carnell Williams replica, I don't think you need to search for a comparison outside of him, when you watch Caddy at Auburn it looks exactly like Moreno now.

Turtlepower
10-26-2008, 11:31 AM
He's an exact Carnell Williams replica, I don't think you need to search for a comparison outside of him, when you watch Caddy at Auburn it looks exactly like Moreno now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-GILgLgT6Y&feature=related

That is a Cadillac Williams highlight reel. Damn, he would have been such a good back in the league if not for freak injuries, which is why I think Knowshon will be amazing.

adschofield
10-26-2008, 11:57 AM
As I was watching him yesterday, I realized he reminded me a lot of Priest Holmes...Doesn't have elite speed or size, but has great agility and vision.

Turtlepower
10-26-2008, 12:02 PM
As I was watching him yesterday, I realized he reminded me a lot of Priest Holmes...Doesn't have elite speed or size, but has great agility and vision.

I'm not sure I agree with the Holmes comparison, but I definitely know where you are coming from with talking about Knowshon's vision. Georgia's o-line really didn't run block that well and he still ran wild on LSU. Knowshon is the best RB prospect since AD.

hockey619
10-26-2008, 12:37 PM
As I was watching him yesterday, I realized he reminded me a lot of Priest Holmes...Doesn't have elite speed or size, but has great agility and vision.

Barry Sanders used to say that change in direction (agility, leg explosiveness and quick twitch muscles) is the most important factor for a running back because it means the running back can make the defense take bad pursuit angles. The ability to slow down/stop and get back to full speed quickly are important and Moreno's got it. Moreno will be good, he has good vision in finding a hole to run through and taking what he can on the plays that dont have a lot of room. He also runs with a lot of heart, never going down easy.

He is very similar to Caddy with the way he runs and measures out I think. His running style looks kinda similar to a poor mans Walter Payton to me, with the good change in direction and fight that he plays with.

Babylon
10-26-2008, 12:51 PM
I'm not sure I agree with the Holmes comparison, but I definitely know where you are coming from with talking about Knowshon's vision. Georgia's o-line really didn't run block that well and he still ran wild on LSU. Knowshon is the best RB prospect since AD.

Believe it or not that was probably the best that O-line has blocked all year.

Sniper
10-26-2008, 03:58 PM
I'm not sure I agree with the Holmes comparison, but I definitely know where you are coming from with talking about Knowshon's vision. Georgia's o-line really didn't run block that well and he still ran wild on LSU. Knowshon is the best RB prospect since AD.

In terms of prospect?

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/cory_mccartney/08/10/freshmen/t1_wells.jpg

giantsfan
10-26-2008, 03:59 PM
I'm not sure I agree with the Holmes comparison, but I definitely know where you are coming from with talking about Knowshon's vision. Georgia's o-line really didn't run block that well and he still ran wild on LSU. Knowshon is the best RB prospect since AD.

Umm...Run DMC?

eaglesalltheway
10-26-2008, 06:47 PM
You were so wrong. He had a big game against what even you admit is top competition. His two long runs were between the tackles. The fact that you say he can't run between the tackles is unequivocally wrong. Against Florida last year, he had 188 yds on 30+ carries and only one or two of his big plays were on toss plays. The rest were handoffs between the tackles. Click the link below for his runs against UF and you'll only see one toss play. The reason why we toss the ball more this year is because we have the true freshman starting on the OL and they haven't been stout enough to handle the SEC DTs head on. But last year most of his runs were hand offs when we had more experience on the line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Zdkm-RAYo - Moreno's highlights vs UF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfUi7rCp1Io&feature=related - UGA vs Auburn - only one toss play. the rest were handoffs and he got 100yds 2tds against an auburn defense that hadn't allowed a 100 yd rusher all year

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QMkZiSt-xw his highlights of the 2007 season where most of his big plays were handoffs between the tackle

As for his size, he's 5ft 10 in and he weighs 210 lbs. He's bigger than several RBs who is having success in this league, such as Brian Westbrook, Steve Slaton (who's having success as a rookie), and maurice jones drew. He reminds me a lot of Thurman Thomas because Thurman wasn't a bigger running back nor was he overly fast. Thurman weighed 200lbs without above average speed for a RB and that's why he slipped in the draft and now he's in the hall of fame. Emmitt Smith was 190lbs as a freshman and when he left UF he weighed 200lbs and we all know how his career went. If you're not really big or really fast, as running back you can compensate by having great vision and making good decisions and Moreno does that. So your size/speed argument holds no water.

Thats too much logic for heather to handle... It doesn't matter, he'll ignore it just like all of mine and countless tohers.

Is that sig real...? if that is, holy crap. Its probably pasted or whatever but crap that would be amazing if it is real...

ElectricEye
10-26-2008, 06:50 PM
guys noshawn cant sucseed because i dont use goergia in my ncca dynasty and i upped kindles sped in ame so he stops him for a loss every tienm

Saints-Tigers
10-26-2008, 06:51 PM
I think Cadillac is might have been the most flexible guy I have seen, some of his cut backs were outrageous, where his legs would be bent like a pretzel and he'd slip through a seem.

Clinton Portis and Cadi are his closest comparisons coming into the league recently though, that's enough for a first round selection IMO, though I'm not big on taking running backs in the first round.

Sniper
10-26-2008, 06:52 PM
guys noshawn cant sucseed because i dont use goergia in my ncca dynasty and i upped kindles sped in ame so he stops him for a loss every tienm

eh tryd two run at cody against alaabma but cody sed no! terrencez codyz iz da best dt prospek i have evuuur seen. josh fremean is betur than tom brady too.

eaglesalltheway
10-26-2008, 07:01 PM
I guess we are supposed to ignore that Sergio Kindle and the defnese for Texas gave up nearly 200 yards, if not over 200 to Oklahoma State. I wonder what heather's excuse there is...

themaninblack
10-26-2008, 09:44 PM
The thing I really notice with Knowshon is his ability to cut. Even with a very green offensive line he manages to make plays because of this. His cut against Auburn last year was a thing of beauty, the man can stop on a dime and change direction really well. I don't really care what his breakaway speed is the guy should have a good NFL career. I just hope he sticks around for another year.

Saints-Tigers
10-27-2008, 01:22 AM
Didn't Glen Dorsey play at LSU? Rofl, anyone can run on them.

giantsfan
10-27-2008, 01:56 AM
Didn't Glen Dorsey play at LSU? Rofl, anyone can run on them.

SEC Speed = crappy run stuffing?!?!?!?!?!

eaglesalltheway
10-27-2008, 06:26 AM
The thing I really notice with Knowshon is his ability to cut. Even with a very green offensive line he manages to make plays because of this. His cut against Auburn last year was a thing of beauty, the man can stop on a dime and change direction really well. I don't really care what his breakaway speed is the guy should have a good NFL career. I just hope he sticks around for another year.

It is just one of the many factors that will make Knowshon a successful NFL RB. What heather does is pick one negative and overinflates it until he beleives the player will be bad.

STARHEATHER
11-01-2008, 11:29 PM
another stinker. ive figured it out. hes a mike hart clone. i wonder if they ever got rid of the toss play, could he get any yards?