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View Full Version : How do prospects become overrated?


jballa838
10-05-2008, 06:10 PM
I was wondering what the most common cause of overration was.

cazjuice
10-05-2008, 06:22 PM
no whats overrated, ohio domican QB's and central arkansas QB's. no whats underrated, F'n Juice Williams, i thinks he's a junior at least. and has had some nice throwing games. i hope he is a junior, ya he's a junior.

Turtlepower
10-05-2008, 06:26 PM
no whats overrated, ohio domican QB's and central arkansas QB's. no whats underrated, F'n Juice Williams, i thinks he's a junior at least. and has had some nice throwing games. i hope he is a junior, ya he's a junior.

Juice Williams sucks more ass than an enima.

saintsfan912
10-05-2008, 06:31 PM
Juice Williams sucks more ass than an enima.

Hilarious and makes perfect sense, Kudos!

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 06:32 PM
media hype. how many games their team wins. national rankings. all america teams. glenndorsey is the ultimate example. this clown got touted as a great player, but in the games he got gouged game after game. becuase the rest of his team won games and he had a high level of talent surrounding him, his deficienies were masked becuase they didnt lose.he didnt even put up any good stats. but one look at the tape vs ohio st or arkansas showed the real glenn dorsey. he was physically inferior to the players playing the position at the elite level in the nfl and had a long history of injury problems. and yet a team went out and used a top 5 pick and now hes getting 200 a week put up on him in the nfl. teams are gashing him just like ark and ohio st did, but theyre paying a bigger price becuase in the nfl you cant hide your deficiencies as easily. everywhere and everyone said he was a great player for reasons other than nfl reasons. and now theyre paying 20 mil to this guy to get 200 put up on them on the ground every week. in the nfl all the players are good. there are no bad players to pad stats against. if you stink youre going to get exploited each and every week. like glenn dorsey

saintsfan912
10-05-2008, 06:34 PM
media hype. how many games their team wins. national rankings. all america teams. glenndorsey is the ultimate example. this clown got touted as a great player, but in the games he got gouged game after game. becuase the rest of his team won games and he had a high level of talent surrounding him, his deficienies were masked becuase they didnt lose.he didnt even put up any good stats. but one look at the tape vs ohio st or arkansas showed the real glenn dorsey. he was physically inferior to the players playing the position at the elite level in the nfl and had a long history of injury problems. and yet a team went out and used a top 5 pick and now hes getting 200 a week put up on him in the nfl. teams are gashing him just like ark and ohio st did, but theyre paying a bigger price becuase in the nfl you cant hide your deficiencies as easily. everywhere and everyone said he was a great player for reasons other than nfl reasons. and now theyre paying 20 mil to this guy to get 200 put up on them on the ground every week. in the nfl all the players are good. there are no bad players to pad stats against. if you stink youre going to get exploited each and every week. like glenn dorsey

First Beanie Wells and Moreno, now Glenn Dorsey? Do you even watch football dude?

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 07:07 PM
well they have are getting 200 per week put up on the ground against them, are they not? theres a reason why they call them busts. because everyone thinks they are great, but when they get to the nfl they get unmasked for what they are, and then everyone looks for excuses or questions as to why. but its all right there easy to see in the stats and losses. glenn dorsey, elite run stuffer. not looking like it. looking like roadkill. thats what happens when you let media hype determine who you draft. thats why im the the mythbusta. beanie and knowshon are headed for glenn dorseyville, hopefully for some poor scout and some general manager they get exposed before its too late. dont despair if youre an lsu fan. they have lots of nfl talent to get behind. you can get off the dorseyville express to bustland

saintsfan912
10-05-2008, 07:15 PM
So Glenn Dorsey, a single DT, is the one to blame for KC getting ran all over? That has to be the most ******** statement I have ever heard. How about you look at the entire Chiefs defense? The only other players worth a damn on that team are Derrick Johnson and Tamba Hali. By the way, he's a rookie. Way too early to say anything about a bust. Have you even watched a Chiefs game this year? Or how about an LSU game the last 2 years?

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 07:26 PM
theyre paying him about 7 mil this year. so he should be out there blowin it up. there it is again. blame it on the other guys. his job is to blow up the middle and stop the running game. hes not doing it. not even at an adequate level. hes getting run over. but that must be someone elses fault hes not doing his job. chad jones, tyson jackson, brandon lafell chalres scott, ciron black jump on those trains. theyll be better and wont cost you 7 mil per year. ive seen hes averaging about 2 tackles a game and theyre getting 200 put up on them every week on the ground. but it must be someone elses fault hes not doing his job. for 7 mill a year, id expect him to be blowin it up. but hes getting blown up.

bspen4
10-05-2008, 07:50 PM
The Chiefs defense is horrible. The only players that would start on a good team are Dorsey, Johnson, and Hali. Pollard maybe.

saintsfan912
10-05-2008, 07:59 PM
So being 2nd among rookie Dlinemen in tackles only behind Chris Long, who is making more money than him doing the same damn thing. He also forced a fumble, but I guess that's bust worthy right? Everytime I've seen him he's in the backfield getting penetration but you wouldn't know that. You're too busy spouting off utter useless **** that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Do everyone a favor. Before you make a post about how ****** a player is, watch a game instead of just looking at stats that only tell 1/4 of the story.

Sniper
10-05-2008, 08:02 PM
SF912, just laugh it off man. I've finally learned that these reactions are all these kinds of posters look for. Everyone knows Glenn Dorsey is awesome. Don't sweat what these "people" say.

Comphockey7
10-05-2008, 08:06 PM
With the way rookies are being paid these days, the amount of money they are making shouldn't tell you what stats they should be producing.

I believe it was around draft day when I heard that despite certain teams drafting run stuffing defensive tackles, their run D didn't improve in the DT's rookie year. Dorsey wouldn't be the first rookie tackle to be on a D giving up 100 plus rushing yards a game.

Some rookies produce, some don't in their first years. You can't call them a bust yet especially with only 4 or 5 games played into their rookie season.

saintsfan912
10-05-2008, 08:11 PM
SF912, just laugh it off man. I've finally learned that these reactions are all these kinds of posters look for. Everyone knows Glenn Dorsey is awesome. Don't sweat what these "people" say.

I know man, I just hate when ignorant people try to post this dribble and nieve people start believing it. They in turn post the same dribble and next thing you know there's a eutopia of retards roaming/ruining the boards.

SMoore
10-05-2008, 08:12 PM
How do prospects become overrated? Mythbusta breaks down the tape and makes a thread saying there overrated. That's how.

Staubach12
10-05-2008, 08:13 PM
If you're mythbusta, a player must exist to be overrated.

Sniper
10-05-2008, 08:13 PM
I know man, I just hate when ignorant people try to post this dribble and nieve people start believing it. They in turn post the same dribble and next thing you know there's a eutopia of retards roaming/ruining the boards.

So do I, but it's going to happen.

Staubach12
10-05-2008, 08:14 PM
How do prospects become overrated? Mythbusta breaks down the tape and makes a thread saying there overrated. That's how.

What tape? Mythbusta breaks down the fact that everyone sucks.

Staubach12
10-05-2008, 08:15 PM
media hype. how many games their team wins. national rankings. all america teams. glenndorsey is the ultimate example. this clown got touted as a great player, but in the games he got gouged game after game. becuase the rest of his team won games and he had a high level of talent surrounding him, his deficienies were masked becuase they didnt lose.he didnt even put up any good stats. but one look at the tape vs ohio st or arkansas showed the real glenn dorsey. he was physically inferior to the players playing the position at the elite level in the nfl and had a long history of injury problems. and yet a team went out and used a top 5 pick and now hes getting 200 a week put up on him in the nfl. teams are gashing him just like ark and ohio st did, but theyre paying a bigger price becuase in the nfl you cant hide your deficiencies as easily. everywhere and everyone said he was a great player for reasons other than nfl reasons. and now theyre paying 20 mil to this guy to get 200 put up on them on the ground every week. in the nfl all the players are good. there are no bad players to pad stats against. if you stink youre going to get exploited each and every week. like glenn dorsey

If you had any credibility left, it is lost.

jnew76
10-05-2008, 09:39 PM
My thoughts

1. Players get overrated when their skills are greater than their mental capacity, work ethic, fundamentals, and/or technique. Players can excel in college on athletic ability alone, overcoming their lack of mental capabilities and/or work ethic. Examples - Ryan Leaf, Charles Rogers, Michael Vick, Darrell Russell... etc.

2. Players can be overrated when a system/coach designs offense/defense that accentuates their skills and disguises their weaknesses. Examples - Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Mike Williams, Dwayne Jarrett, various Florida WR's.

3. Classic workout warriors - Players with marginal production in college who have exceptionable athletic skill and/or straight line speed. Examples - Mike Mamula, Chris Henry, Tony Mandarich, Kyle Boller.

jballa838
10-05-2008, 10:04 PM
thanks jnew, Michael Vick made the probowl, so I wouldnt label him overrated. But it all makes sense.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 10:27 PM
well the #s say their 32nd in the league against the run, they give up 200 per game on the ground. so if thats not the fault of an elite run stuffer i dont know what is. i dont know how you can say hes "awesome" getting run over like that. but if you say so. believe me im not looking for credibility. i know the odds, i know what happened in his games last year, and i know whats happening now. its exactly what i expected. exactly what i knew would happen. becuase thats what happened in his college games. im not even remotely surprised. credibility is for those who need others to reaffirm them. i dont need that. thus as my rep lowers, i feel more and more right. i havent heard one thing from anyone on this site to dispute what ive said. no factual evidence to back up the justification for giving him 20 mil guaranteed. all i see is 1-4 32nd in the league vs the run. you cvan blame brandon flowers or turk mcbride, but when you cant stop the run that starts up front. and he cant stop the run. and since he cant do anything else. he cant do anything

Buckrock101
10-05-2008, 11:01 PM
I agree with mythbusta, it's media hype. That's why Maualuga, Rivers, Cushing, Stafford etc all get to be as overrated as they are/were.

brat316
10-05-2008, 11:15 PM
Media Hype does have a lot to do with it, being in the national spot light helps show off their skill. There is a positive and negative to that.

Sometimes the better players are kept hidden since they have no media. GMs get lucky save a little bit of money.

The general fan gets hyped up since the media will make players out to be amazing. I remeber some of my roomates saying Troy Smith will rape the NFL and be like a top 5 pick.

STARHEATHER
10-05-2008, 11:30 PM
i see you have the best reputation on the site. im shooting for you. im only -318, im mclosing fast. you must know what youre talking about

SenorGato
10-05-2008, 11:37 PM
When their perceived value is higher than their actual value. So, basically when they get hyped to the point where their tools can't match expectations. It usually plagues big school prospects...saw it with the USC guys...and they'll all probably improve as that stuff dies away and the expectations get realistic.

Buckrock101
10-06-2008, 01:36 AM
i see you have the best reputation on the site. im shooting for you. im only -318, im mclosing fast. you must know what youre talking about

I'm -154, and I've only been here a few days. I'll be higher soon enough.

giantsfan
10-06-2008, 01:38 AM
Flashes of Physical Dominance despite poor or no technique. I call it "hidden beast syndrome"

Mr. Stiller
10-06-2008, 01:39 AM
My thoughts

1. Players get overrated when their skills are greater than their mental capacity, work ethic, fundamentals, and/or technique. Players can excel in college on athletic ability alone, overcoming their lack of mental capabilities and/or work ethic. Examples - Ryan Leaf, Charles Rogers, Michael Vick, Darrell Russell... etc.

2. Players can be overrated when a system/coach designs offense/defense that accentuates their skills and disguises their weaknesses. Examples - Tim Couch, Alex Smith, Mike Williams, Dwayne Jarrett, various Florida WR's.

3. Classic workout warriors - Players with marginal production in college who have exceptionable athletic skill and/or straight line speed. Examples - Mike Mamula, Chris Henry, Tony Mandarich, Kyle Boller.

4) When Mythbustaz says so.

jnew76
10-06-2008, 06:44 AM
4) When Mythbustaz says so.

So true - Glaring omission which discredits the rest of my post.

eaglesalltheway
10-06-2008, 07:02 AM
theyre paying him about 7 mil this year. so he should be out there blowin it up. there it is again. blame it on the other guys. his job is to blow up the middle and stop the running game. hes not doing it. not even at an adequate level. hes getting run over. but that must be someone elses fault hes not doing his job. chad jones, tyson jackson, brandon lafell chalres scott, ciron black jump on those trains. theyll be better and wont cost you 7 mil per year. ive seen hes averaging about 2 tackles a game and theyre getting 200 put up on them every week on the ground. but it must be someone elses fault hes not doing his job. for 7 mill a year, id expect him to be blowin it up. but hes getting blown up.

Bolded part:

How come when he was at LSU it was everyone else who "made him loook good", but now that he's with the Chiefs, all you are saying is it is on him because, apparently, he can't be 11 people at once?

Granted, the talent at LSU on defense was and is very, very good, but Dorsey's is undeniable by most (pretty much everyone except you). How is there this double standard? It should be one way or the other, not both, like you like to do, mix up different ways to twist stories so it seems like you have something to back it up.

Iamcanadian
10-06-2008, 10:18 AM
It's isn't just media hype that makes a player overrated. I'd say the most important element is the fact that a great college players doesn't always translate well to the pro game. The second most important element is that people forget that many top Div1 colleges have superior talent throughout their team and that can make it a lot easier for a player to look good because the players around him are doing their jobs. I can give you plenty of i.e.'s A WR plays on a team that has an excellent OL with 2 or 3 pro prospects on it. In these conditions a WR, a RB and a QB can all appear to look far better than they actually are. The RB gets huge holes to run through, the QB has all day to throw the ball and the WR he throws to has all day to get open. This can easily make a player overrated by fans and draft predictors.
The same goes for defense. A great DE can really make a lot of the other players on defense appear a lot better than they are. Teams fearing this player may put up to 3 blockers on that DE meaning everybody else has a far easier time getting free to make plays. The QB may only have a few seconds to get rid of the ball so the DB's have a far easier time defending the pass.
It is very, very easy for a player on a team with superior talent all around him to get over hyped. It is far less likely for a player on a weak team to get overhyped.

BBIB
10-06-2008, 10:28 AM
A lot of it has to do with media hype.

Sometimes it's because a guy was rated so high out of High School like Matthew Stafford.

Other times it's hype out of nowhere maybe because a guy plays for a big name school.

Dam8610
10-06-2008, 11:03 AM
theyre paying him about 7 mil this year. so he should be out there blowin it up. there it is again. blame it on the other guys. his job is to blow up the middle and stop the running game. hes not doing it. not even at an adequate level. hes getting run over. but that must be someone elses fault hes not doing his job. chad jones, tyson jackson, brandon lafell chalres scott, ciron black jump on those trains. theyll be better and wont cost you 7 mil per year. ive seen hes averaging about 2 tackles a game and theyre getting 200 put up on them every week on the ground. but it must be someone elses fault hes not doing his job. for 7 mill a year, id expect him to be blowin it up. but hes getting blown up.

You, sir, are a moron. First and foremost, Glenn Dorsey is a rookie, very few rookies come in and make a positive impact on their teams immediately, outside of the RB and LB positions (and even then, it's not a common occurrence). Now that that's out of the way, Dorsey was NEVER billed as a NT, and if you think he was, you're a fool who needs to learn some defensive concepts outside of the 2-gap 3-4. Glenn Dorsey's job in the Tampa 2 scheme he plays in is to get penetration into the backfield, and try to disrupt it. The problem with that is he's being doubled since he's basically the only threat on that DL, so he can't really make much of an impact outside of eating up 2 blockers, which leaves it to the other players on KC's defense to make the plays, which means he's doing his job, but quite a few of the players around him aren't. It's really not that difficult to understand, all it takes is knowing the role, strengths, and limitations of the player, which you could easily figure out by looking at the scheme he in which he plays.

One more thing, in your eyes, was Warren Sapp an all-time great defensive tackle? Because his job never was to eat space and stop the run, it was to penetrate the OL and disrupt the backfield.

Buckrock101
10-06-2008, 04:30 PM
It's isn't just media hype that makes a player overrated. I'd say the most important element is the fact that a great college players doesn't always translate well to the pro game.

True. That's the case right now... Chase Daniel is an excellent college QB, probably the best in the nation right now. He's not a good pro prospect, but he is still getting hype because he's in the Heisman mix. Alongside this, Josh Freeman, someone who isn't as good in college but is a much better pro prospect, isn't getting nearly as much hype as someone like Bradford or Daniel... but he should.

scottyboy
10-06-2008, 05:13 PM
mythbusta, just 2 serious, simple questions:

Are Courtney Greene and Kenny Britt over-rated?

Were Brian Leonard and Raymell Rice over-rated?

Xonraider
10-07-2008, 06:17 PM
media hype. how many games their team wins. national rankings. all america teams. glenndorsey is the ultimate example. this clown got touted as a great player, but in the games he got gouged game after game. becuase the rest of his team won games and he had a high level of talent surrounding him, his deficienies were masked becuase they didnt lose.he didnt even put up any good stats. but one look at the tape vs ohio st or arkansas showed the real glenn dorsey. he was physically inferior to the players playing the position at the elite level in the nfl and had a long history of injury problems. and yet a team went out and used a top 5 pick and now hes getting 200 a week put up on him in the nfl. teams are gashing him just like ark and ohio st did, but theyre paying a bigger price becuase in the nfl you cant hide your deficiencies as easily. everywhere and everyone said he was a great player for reasons other than nfl reasons. and now theyre paying 20 mil to this guy to get 200 put up on them on the ground every week. in the nfl all the players are good. there are no bad players to pad stats against. if you stink youre going to get exploited each and every week. like glenn dorsey

The first statements about what made players overrated made me think you had some knowledge... but I kept reading.


Not that there is no chance for Dorsey to be a bust, I mean, you never know. But he was not overrated... not at all.

ChezPower4
10-07-2008, 06:34 PM
Espn can make or break a players career as a pro. They can also make a player look like a can't miss prospect for the draft, because their kinda good but the player may be very marketable i.e Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart. ESPN loves marketable players

STARHEATHER
10-07-2008, 07:50 PM
brian leonard isnt good. hes neither adequate as runner or blocker and their offense is not good and hes probably one of he reasons. their drafting the last 3 years or so has been the worst. no impact players and theyve had lots of high picks. ray rice looks as if he may never get a shot as tb for the ravens. theyve turned to former blocking back laron mcclain instead of rice to spell willis mcgahee and hes been somewhat succesful. the ravens style of offense needs a power between the tackles back and rice doesnt fit the mold. he may still get a shot at some point as mcgahee is frail but at this point all things being equal hes not having any impact.he wasnt overdrafted nearly as much as brian leonard. like cortney greene somewhat maybe 2nd 3rd. kenny britt im not aware of so hes probably not all that great although i do admit i havent had the pleasure of a rutgers game this year. they dont have too many good prospects.

scottyboy
10-07-2008, 08:08 PM
brian leonard isnt good. hes neither adequate as runner or blocker and their offense is not good and hes probably one of he reasons. their drafting the last 3 years or so has been the worst. no impact players and theyve had lots of high picks. ray rice looks as if he may never get a shot as tb for the ravens. theyve turned to former blocking back laron mcclain instead of rice to spell willis mcgahee and hes been somewhat succesful. the ravens style of offense needs a power between the tackles back and rice doesnt fit the mold. he may still get a shot at some point as mcgahee is frail but at this point all things being equal hes not having any impact.he wasnt overdrafted nearly as much as brian leonard. like cortney greene somewhat maybe 2nd 3rd. kenny britt im not aware of so hes probably not all that great although i do admit i havent had the pleasure of a rutgers game this year. they dont have too many good prospects.

ULTIMATE FAIL.

Sniper
10-07-2008, 08:10 PM
ULTIMATE FAIL.

Already hit him up with some neg rep for you.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2006/09/27/leonard.jpg

Dam8610
10-07-2008, 09:28 PM
One more thing, in your eyes, was Warren Sapp an all-time great defensive tackle?

So did you plan on answering this question, mythbusta?

ChezPower4
10-07-2008, 09:29 PM
Already hit him up with some neg rep for you.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2006/09/27/leonard.jpg

God..... if only i could jump that high:rolleyes:

Bruce Banner
10-07-2008, 09:31 PM
God..... if only i could jump that high:rolleyes:

Him bringing his legs up makes it appear a lot higher than it actually is.

scottyboy
10-07-2008, 09:39 PM
Him bringing his legs up makes it appear a lot higher than it actually is.

do you dare be speaking the blasphemy?

Cribbs>Hester
10-09-2008, 01:39 AM
Easy...they sign with Ohio State or USC...

ironman4579
10-09-2008, 09:26 AM
brian leonard isnt good. hes neither adequate as runner or blocker and their offense is not good and hes probably one of he reasons. their drafting the last 3 years or so has been the worst. no impact players and theyve had lots of high picks. ray rice looks as if he may never get a shot as tb for the ravens. theyve turned to former blocking back laron mcclain instead of rice to spell willis mcgahee and hes been somewhat succesful. the ravens style of offense needs a power between the tackles back and rice doesnt fit the mold. he may still get a shot at some point as mcgahee is frail but at this point all things being equal hes not having any impact.he wasnt overdrafted nearly as much as brian leonard. like cortney greene somewhat maybe 2nd 3rd. kenny britt im not aware of so hes probably not all that great although i do admit i havent had the pleasure of a rutgers game this year. they dont have too many good prospects.

My god Scotty. It's like this guy just punched your girl in the face or something. I haven't been around for like six months, but this cannot go unpunished.

eaglesalltheway
10-09-2008, 12:24 PM
God..... if only i could jump that high:rolleyes:

God... if only I could jump...

DeathbyStat
10-09-2008, 12:31 PM
Sportcenter highlights

eaglesalltheway
10-09-2008, 12:33 PM
Did mythbusta seriously just say Ray Rice doesn't fit the bill of a power RB? Chris Wells isn't power, neither is Ray Rice, what do you have to do to be a power RB mythbusta? Perhaps a tank, literally a tank, might have a shot at being a power back in the NFL, if it can do more than stiffarm people.

How about this?

"kenny britt im not aware of so hes probably not all that great"

So by that logic, this kid that went to my high school must be a perennial pro-bowler because I met him, twice!!!

Kenny Britt is a very good WR prospect, and would show it more if Tiquan Underwood wasn't there and if Mike Teel didn't have his issues. (put it as lightly as I could for you scotty) I know it owuld kill you scotty, but I wouldn't mind if Britt was a possible second round pick for the Eagles.

scottyboy
10-09-2008, 03:55 PM
its ok EATW, Teel blows, it's true. And Britt is awesome, the fact this guy doesn't know him is just crazy. shows how much he knows, bet he never heard of Courtney Greene either. That and his blasphemous comments on Ray Ray and Leonard just make me irate. I will neg rep him forever for his incredible crimes

DoWnThEfiElD
10-09-2008, 04:15 PM
Usually when Mythbusta says they are...

jared
10-09-2008, 05:47 PM
brian leonard isnt good. hes neither adequate as runner or blocker and their offense is not good and hes probably one of the reasons.

Brian Leonard who has two carries this season? Sounds like a pretty key factor in the Rams' crappiness to me. Well on the bright side, Leonard ruining their season allows the Rams to draft Josh Freeman #1 overall next year, right?