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Gay Ork Wang
10-07-2008, 12:29 PM
Its kinda sad that it comes to this, but we had a discussion with a Falcon fan who was really convinced that their ST is just as good as the Bears ST and without the return game the Bears ST is hardly as good as the Falcons ST.

This got me to make this thread.

What team has the best ST? what team has the best ST without Returning?

id say 1. Bears 2. Bills

Shane P. Hallam
10-07-2008, 12:30 PM
So, you are saying the best kick-off/punt coverage?

Gay Ork Wang
10-07-2008, 12:31 PM
So, you are saying the best kick-off/punt coverage?
Best kickoff/punt coverage as well as blocking for the returners or blocking field goalds, as well as punting and kicking

princefielder28
10-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Dallas is the best...McBriar is one of the league's best and Folk has been dynamite since entering the league

Sniper
10-07-2008, 12:36 PM
Well, New Orleans leads punt returns by a huge margin (27.1 yards per return, 3 TD) New England leads in kick returns with a 29.6 ypr average. Jacksonville has the best kickoff coverage so far, and Atlanta has the best punt coverage.

Sav Rocca is a punting god.

Sniper
10-07-2008, 12:37 PM
Dallas is the best...McBriar is one of the league's best and Folk has been dynamite since entering the league

Dallas is an average punt coverage team though. Ranked 15th in the league. They are also 31st in punt returns.

KCJ58
10-07-2008, 12:38 PM
Tennessee Titans

Sniper
10-07-2008, 12:40 PM
Reggie Bush is averaging a mind-boggling 29.0 yards per punt return with 3 touchdowns. DeSean Jackson is awesome.

Gay Ork Wang
10-07-2008, 12:41 PM
Reggie Bush is averaging a mind-boggling 29.0 yards per punt return with 3 touchdowns. DeSean Jackson is awesome.
im not talking about returns though...

Sniper
10-07-2008, 12:42 PM
im not talking about returns though...

I know, just thought I'd throw it out there.

Sniper
10-07-2008, 12:43 PM
Atlanta's coverage units are stupid good. Ranked sixth in kickoff coverage and first in punt coverage. They don't even give up three yards per punt return

CashmoneyDrew
10-07-2008, 12:44 PM
Tennessee Titans

I agree. Rob Bironas is straight money, and Craig Hentrich is as solid and as consistent as you can get at punter. Not to mention, the blocking to open lanes for Chris Carr lately has been beastly.

Sniper
10-07-2008, 12:45 PM
I agree. Rob Bironas is straight money, and Craig Hentrich is as solid and as consistent as you can get at punter. Not to mention, the blocking to open lanes for Chris Carr lately has been beastly.

Maybe, but the Titans are 28th in punt coverage and 31st in kick coverage.

M.O.T.H.
10-07-2008, 12:47 PM
Dallas has the best kicker and punter combo but, as far as Special Teams units...we're not even close.

JT Jag
10-07-2008, 01:03 PM
The Jaguars.

We have good returners, but our gunners have been godly so far this year.

Oh yeah, and Mr. Clutch Josh Scobee.

Without our special teams the Jaguars are 0-5 right now.

Sniper
10-07-2008, 01:07 PM
The Jaguars.

We have good returners, but our gunners have been godly so far this year.

Oh yeah, and Mr. Clutch Josh Scobee.

Without our special teams the Jaguars are 0-5 right now.

We might have a winner here. Jacksonville's lowest ranked unit is their punt coverage, and that's 13th. Everything else is top 10.

Gay Ork Wang
10-07-2008, 01:08 PM
Does anyone have a stat on starting field position allowed and average starting field position? im not a big fan of return averages

KCJ58
10-07-2008, 01:21 PM
Does anyone have a stat on starting field position allowed and average starting field position? im not a big fan of return averages

when will your name be changed back to what it was?

thule
10-07-2008, 01:27 PM
As far as coverage units go...I'd have to think the dolphins are one of the top in the league.

Turtlepower
10-07-2008, 01:30 PM
when will your name be changed back to what it was?

When JBond allows it, I assume.

Gay Ork Wang
10-07-2008, 01:33 PM
When JBond allows it, I assume.
u mean when i want it

NY+Giants=NYG
10-07-2008, 01:41 PM
Bills! I am very biased though!

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/coach.jsp?coach_id=4

Bobby April - Assistant Head Coach/Special Teams ----> STUD!


I got to see his lecture on special teams from my coaching vault this past year when I was coaching, and he is a stud! He answered every question from every coach in the room, and even went over his whole theory on special teams and went over each drill used piece by piece, and then showed it run together as a unit.

He is a stud special teams coach! His drills are VERY, VERY good! I would say my special teams coach who I like Bobby April AND Frank Beamer, VT!

Beamer's special teams video is one of the best ever! Guy is a special teams genius!

Saints-Tigers
10-07-2008, 01:48 PM
I agree on the Bills.

Brian Moorman=Gawdz

Gay Ork Wang
10-07-2008, 02:00 PM
i think Brad Maynard is a really underrated Punter

SuperMcGee
10-07-2008, 02:01 PM
April is a genius, I love the guy. But we've had a personnel dropoff from last year (No more Josh Stamer, Mario Haggan, Coy Wire). McGee is no longer returning kicks and Parrish has been sidelined. Moorman and Lindell are still very good, but it's not us right now.

I might have to give it to Jacksonville for right now. I know their coverage has been unreal for at least two years, and Scobee has had a great year so far. Not sure how Podlesh has been, but I've been impressed from everything I've caught from them.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-07-2008, 02:04 PM
Was April the ST's coach in '97?

eaglesalltheway
10-07-2008, 02:22 PM
April is a genius, I love the guy. But we've had a personnel dropoff from last year (No more Josh Stamer, Mario Haggan, Coy Wire). McGee is no longer returning kicks and Parrish has been sidelined. Moorman and Lindell are still very good, but it's not us right now.

I might have to give it to Jacksonville for right now. I know their coverage has been unreal for at least two years, and Scobee has had a great year so far. Not sure how Podlesh has been, but I've been impressed from everything I've caught from them.

PS: Dustin Colquitt

Take down your sig.

Now.

Gay Ork Wang
10-07-2008, 02:26 PM
Take down your sig.

Now.
cant, homer challenge lost

eaglesalltheway
10-07-2008, 02:28 PM
Oh

no.

This is not good. Damn homer challenge, why does everyone else have to suffer for the lost bet?

A Perfect Score
10-07-2008, 02:31 PM
MATT STOVER! the ageless wonder :)

yo123
10-07-2008, 02:32 PM
I think we all know after last night that the Vikings have the best special teams....

But to give credit where credit is due, Ryan Longwell is straight cash homey. He's made like 40 in a row from 45 yards and in.

SuperMcGee
10-07-2008, 02:33 PM
Was April the ST's coach in '97?

Not here, that was a while before we were blessed with him. New orleans or St. Louis, maybe.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-07-2008, 02:38 PM
Not here, that was a while before we were blessed with him. New orleans or St. Louis, maybe.

O ok. I have the Bills '97 ST playbook which is 128 pages, and very well written, so I was wondering if it was him or another coaches book.

Gay Ork Wang
10-07-2008, 02:38 PM
O ok. I have the Bills '97 ST playbook which is 128 pages, and very well written, so I was wondering if it was him or another coaches book.
is bobby april a candidate for a HC job?

eaglesalltheway
10-07-2008, 02:43 PM
Not here, that was a while before we were blessed with him. New orleans or St. Louis, maybe.

If I had to sport that sig, I wouldn't post at all. Just sayin man. Creeps me out.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-07-2008, 02:48 PM
is bobby april a candidate for a HC job?

I don't know. I don't know his management style or anything like that so I can't comment on that. Too many times fans think because someone is a sick coordinator, that they will be a sick HC. Not always true. It comes down to who you surround yourself with, how the scouting department is, and most importantly organized you are.

One example is Tom Coughlin. You can do a case study on the guy, from how he changed his personality. The edition of the leadership council was paramount in his success. But he is very well organized and very, very detailed! That's the key, the ability to out work opposing coaches with your staff, and do ALL the little things they don't think of.

But no fan can really know if the a coach will be a good HC. Other coaches can know. I know from my staff who would be a good HC, and who wouldn't be. But that's because I am in the meetings with them and get to see how they interact with players.

I told my WR coach, who is a year or so older than me, that he will be a damn good coach one day. HC that is. Some games alone he was the impact coach who basically made us score. Fans talk about execution which is key obviously, but our coach noticed from being in the press box that the SS cheated when we aligned in trips formation, and would be initially always take his first step in, before reading and reacting. So he told the OC via the headset this, and run a play couple times to bait the SS, and then run playaction and go on top, and so we baited the SS, set him up, and he kept cheating, and cheating, and we ran playaction, froze him, and our WR ran past him for a TD.

I told him afterward that was a sick, sick observation! So just a little story who players get credit for plays, but you never know what coach saw something and told the OC to do that. That's why I love football, it's never 1 player or coach, it's everyone, including the coaches in the box on gameday! They are huge!

Smokey Joe
10-08-2008, 07:49 AM
It's the Bears, easily. I'm not even looking at this from a biased view or anything, but from all the teams I have watched, none come close to the Bears.

If there was a stat for average starting field position for all the Bears opponents this year, I'm sure the Bears would be the top of the list.

Plus, this we have one of the most accurate kickers in the league, a punter who consistently drops opponents back in the 20, easily the best punt and field goal block units in the NFL, and the greatest return man to ever play the game.

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 08:52 AM
Brad Maynard has the most Punts inside the 20 and most forced Fair catches

NY+Giants=NYG
10-08-2008, 09:06 AM
Brad Maynard has the most Punts inside the 20 and most forced Fair catches

He also has the most punts in the NFL, meaning their offense has alot of 3 and outs. So don't forget that, I still would take Feagles over Maynard. Feagles is a stud punter.

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 09:08 AM
He also has the most punts in the NFL, meaning their offense has alot of 3 and outs. So don't forget that, I still would take Feagles over Maynard. Feagles is a stud punter.
how is that Maynards fault?

NY+Giants=NYG
10-08-2008, 09:10 AM
how is that Maynards fault?

I never said it was. But since you bring it up, I will say that more attempts you have at something the more chances you have at getting stats. Hence him putting up stats that are good is a function of him being good, and him getting alot of attempts.

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 09:16 AM
if the team has that many 3 and outs, how does he get so many in 20s?

NY+Giants=NYG
10-08-2008, 09:20 AM
if the team has that many 3 and outs, how does he get so many in 20s?

I don't know I don't watch the games, but where is the field position when he is punting? That's a factor too. I am just saying when you have more attempts at something your stats across the board will be higher.

Take Brett F for example. He has the record for passing attempts, which means he will have the record for TDs, yards, Ints, and everything, just because when you have more chances at something your numbers will be higher across the board.

It's like if me and you had a free throw contest, and you had 10 shots, while I had 100. Even if you make 10/10, can I turn around and say I made more shots than you? The answer is no, because obviously I had a more chances, thus my stats will be higher.

Now don't confuse that with me saying he is not good, but all it means is that he is a good player, but also, has more attempts in the NFL, which isn't his fault, nor should it be, but that accounts for more chances to rack up stats.

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 09:27 AM
He is leading by only 1 attempt though. so its like i have 10 shots u have 11

Of his 31 attempts, 15 are In 20 and 10 are fair catches. thats a prety ood percentage

NY+Giants=NYG
10-08-2008, 09:36 AM
He is leading by only 1 attempt though. so its like i have 10 shots u have 11

Of his 31 attempts, 15 are In 20 and 10 are fair catches. thats a prety ood percentage

Well I am talking about in general with stats. But our punter has only 13 attempts. Granted we have a bye week, but we don't really punt that much. If we don't score a TD it's usually a Carney FG.

Not to mention Giants fans know all about Brad M. We drafted the guy. I always liked him. We always had good punters. Sean Landata,Brad M, and now Feagles.

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 09:43 AM
im not saying that he is the best punter. But he is one of the better punters in the league given the fact he is playing in Chicago, which is really not easy to punt in.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-08-2008, 09:49 AM
im not saying that he is the best punter. But he is one of the better punters in the league given the fact he is playing in Chicago, which is really not easy to punt in.

Yeah I can buy that. He had 30 something punts in the 20 for us too. But all I am saying is observe the field position of those punts.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 09:53 AM
im not saying that he is the best punter. But he is one of the better punters in the league given the fact he is playing in Chicago, which is really not easy to punt in.

He's no brian moorman.

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 10:01 AM
im not saying that

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 10:15 AM
im not saying that

I know. If you take out anything revolving around the return. Meaning KO returns and Punt Returns (on the defensive side)... I can think of a few teams that have an advantage. I mean, the bears CLEARLY have the best long snapper in the NFL right now in patrick man beast mannelly. The bears gunners are fantastic though. Garrett Wolfe leads with what? 8 tackles on ST? Garrett Wolfe. all 5 foot 6 of him. Danieal Manning mananges to reach the goal line before the ball last week and is sitting on the (unfortunately) goal line to stop it at the one and fails (but that's because he's a failure).

CashmoneyDrew
10-08-2008, 12:17 PM
Maybe, but the Titans are 28th in punt coverage and 31st in kick coverage.

Meh, even Superman had Kryptonite. :)

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 12:27 PM
But thats like if Superman was super weak as soon he sees people