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View Full Version : That one knock on the big time prospect... did it become a factor?


djp
10-08-2008, 12:14 AM
Well, I am just curious. I don't have Sunday Ticket, and I gotta be honest -- I don't see a lot of Chiefs games.

Remember when, everyone was bashing Derrick Johnson for not being able to shed blocks at all? Other than that, he was the perfect LB prospect.

I am just wondering, has this become a factor in his play? Or did he prove all the naysayers wrong?

Some other guys that I can think of that have had similar situations..

"Knocked" prospects : An otherwise elite prospect that was thought to have one glaring deficiency in his game

Reggie Bush : He can't touch the ball 25 times a game - Durability
Matt Leinart : No arm strength leads to poor deep ball
Vernon Davis : He isn't agile enough, poor shuttle time at the Combine
Vince Young : Scored worse than my dog on the Wonderlic

Can anyone else think of any other BIG-TIME knocks or deficiencies in a certain prospect and how it has evolved during their time in the NFL? Who are true stories? Who proved everyone wrong?

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 12:17 AM
Ryan Leaf : Spine
Alex Smith : System (Though I don't remember if this was a widespread criticism at the time)

yourfavestoner
10-08-2008, 12:23 AM
Mike Williams (both of them) was fat and slow.

SFbear
10-08-2008, 12:29 AM
Cedric Benson had character concerns.
Chris Williams had injury concerns.
Sigh...

giantsfan
10-08-2008, 12:40 AM
Mike Williams (both of them) was fat and slow.

Both of them was slow eh?

Pb&j
10-08-2008, 12:40 AM
Braylon Edwards- Inconsistent hands, will make the spectacular catch, then drop the easy one. Hasn't changed a bit.

djp
10-08-2008, 12:41 AM
Braylon Edwards- Inconsistent hands, will make the spectacular catch, then drop the easy one. Hasn't changed a bit.

Was going to post this, but I felt like I'd take too many of the easy ones. he really hasn't changed his technique at all. I wonder if some of the blame on that can be placed on his coaching staff. That is usually something that can be corrected.

Borat
10-08-2008, 12:58 AM
"Knocked" prospects : An otherwise elite prospect that was thought to have one glaring deficiency in his game

Vernon Davis : He isn't agile enough, poor shuttle time at the Combine


Not sure I remember agility as an issue for VD, but I remember his hands being questioned. This was definitely accurate. He can't catch ****.

Vikes99ej
10-08-2008, 01:02 AM
Not sure I remember agility as an issue for VD, but I remember his hands being questioned. This was definitely accurate. He can't catch ****.

Has he played in a game yet?

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 01:04 AM
Has he played in a game yet?

Speaking of that.

Adrian Peterson : Injury concerns

Looks to be past it.

giantsfan
10-08-2008, 01:07 AM
Mario Manningham still wears a helmet while pretending to read, so that he doesn't hurt himself if his brain starts hurting and he tries to ram it through a wall, strangely the helmet also has a parachute in case said wall is actually a window.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 01:27 AM
Speaking of that.

Adrian Peterson : Injury concerns

Looks to be past it.

he's only played 16 games!

MarioPalmer
10-08-2008, 01:30 AM
Not sure I remember agility as an issue for VD, but I remember his hands being questioned. This was definitely accurate. He can't catch ****.

I hate to say this, I'm sure there is still a lot of hope for this young man, but he could be in the same boat as Mike Mamula when all is said and done. V. Davis could be one of the biggest workout warriors of the last decade and the hype of his workouts and combine was so off the wall that he wasn't going to picked out of the top 10 because of it.

To me, Davis looks football stupid. Not saying he can't correct those things, but he doesn't lead me to believe that he is smart to know how to get open and when to break off a route if his QB is in trouble. I also think he has a poor time of getting in and out of his breaks and that his route running isn't even close to adequate. Not saying those things can't improve, but I believe that drafting a TE that early for a club that needed much more greater needs was a very bad decision and could be almost as worse as the Alex Smith pick. Haloti Ngata was the guy to take and at the absolute least Donte Whitnor would have been a better value. Davis has a ton of mental work to do. His concentration is also suspect and I don't think if Martz can help then to me, no one can.

illmatic74
10-08-2008, 01:35 AM
To prospects that became the opposite are Greg Jennings and Jerricho Cotchery. Both were labeled as players who weren't going to be able to get seperation in the pros but last year they were 2 of the best in the league at getting yac.

Saints-Tigers
10-08-2008, 01:37 AM
The thing is, Vernon was really productive at Maryland, and the way he was used was great, they used him as a traditional TE, split out wide, like an H-Back, out of the backfield, downfield, screens, whatever, and he thrived.

He really just needs a change of scenery. He had one ball thrown his way during the entire game against the Saints, he makes a great play after the catch, celebrates, and gets yanked from the game....

illmatic74
10-08-2008, 01:38 AM
I hate to say this, I'm sure there is still a lot of hope for this young man, but he could be in the same boat as Mike Mamula when all is said and done. V. Davis could be one of the biggest workout warriors of the last decade and the hype of his workouts and combine was so off the wall that he wasn't going to picked out of the top 10 because of it.

To me, Davis looks football stupid. Not saying he can't correct those things, but he doesn't lead me to believe that he is smart to know how to get open and when to break off a route if his QB is in trouble. I also think he has a poor time of getting in and out of his breaks and that his route running isn't even close to adequate. Not saying those things can't improve, but I believe that drafting a TE that early for a club that needed much more greater needs was a very bad decision and could be almost as worse as the Alex Smith pick. Haloti Ngata was the guy to take and at the absolute least Donte Whitnor would have been a better value. Davis has a ton of mental work to do. His concentration is also suspect and I don't think if Martz can help then to me, no one can.
If you saw him play his junior year you would have thought much of him. He just seemed to be a gamebreaker. He had 18 ypc he was breaking tackles he put Mario williams on his ass. He could actually play.

steelersfan43
10-08-2008, 01:44 AM
he's only played 16 games!

And he already tore a ligament in his knee. lol

d34ng3l021
10-08-2008, 03:41 AM
Drew Brees didn't have great arm strength coming out.

Now he does.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-08-2008, 08:22 AM
As long as Vernon is under Mike Martz he will never make an impact. Give him to the Colts or something and you'd see the type of game changer he can be.

Komp
10-08-2008, 08:35 AM
Mario Manningham still wears a helmet while pretending to read, so that he doesn't hurt himself if his brain starts hurting and he tries to ram it through a wall, strangely the helmet also has a parachute in case said wall is actually a window.

LOL...that is priceless.

SenorGato
10-08-2008, 09:20 AM
NEGATIVES: Likes to bait the quarterback, slow locating the pass in the air and has some hesitation to his game. Not physical defending the run and likes to hit rather than tackle.


Those are the knocks on DeAngelo Hall from '04 according to SI.com.

Nothings really changed.

keylime_5
10-08-2008, 09:23 AM
Kamerion Wimbley: Only has one pass rushing move (probably the reason why he's struggling)
Desean Jackson: too small (so far not a problem)
Derek Anderson: throws too many interceptions and has no accuracy. (bingo)

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 09:44 AM
Desean had other knocks too

abaddon41_80
10-08-2008, 10:06 AM
As long as Vernon is under Mike Martz he will never make an impact. Give him to the Colts or something and you'd see the type of game changer he can be.

If the Colts can teach him how to catch, run routes, and actually look back for the ball then I guess.

Geo
10-08-2008, 10:24 AM
I don't think VD would fly with the Colts, he'd need to study that playbook hard too. Maybe they could pare it down some for him to make it work.

I would like to see it, to see if they could make it work. Although if a guy runs a wrong route or drops a ball, there's a good chance Peyton won't throw him another ball the rest of the game. I'd add a LOL to that, but I am being serious. So it might be something of a doomed effort.

Maybe Carolina would be the best spot for him? If he's a good blocker foremost but could add a few good plays now and then as a receiver, that probably works best for them.

But the 49ers are on the hook for all of that guaranteed money, plus Davis is unlikely to reach most of his incentives I'm sure, so they might as well keep him and continue to groom him.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-08-2008, 10:40 AM
Jay Cutler: Just a strong arm, inaccurate, poor throwing mechanics.

Nope.

mqtirishfan
10-08-2008, 11:19 AM
Jay Cutler: Is not the second coming of Christ

Nope.

Fixed that for ya. :)

DiG
10-08-2008, 11:41 AM
"Landry may need to add some bulk to contend with the more physical receivers in the NFL. "

"The only real knock on Landry is that he could stand to add some bulk if he is going to be taking on NFL running back and tight ends on a regular basis."

REALLY?!?!?!

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/4079/laronlandryxs9.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01wmbsUaMl7XA/340x.jpg

Gay Ork Wang
10-08-2008, 11:49 AM
"Landry may need to add some bulk to contend with the more physical receivers in the NFL. "

"The only real knock on Landry is that he could stand to add some bulk if he is going to be taking on NFL running back and tight ends on a regular basis."

REALLY?!?!?!

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/4079/laronlandryxs9.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01wmbsUaMl7XA/340x.jpg
damn that knee is creppy

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 12:57 PM
DeMarcus Ware had everyone questioning whether he could transfer his game from the down-lineman position in a crappy school/conference to the outside 'backer spot in the NFL.

I think it's safe to say he proved he could.

Race for the Heisman
10-08-2008, 01:28 PM
Jake Long - Agility/Quickness (ability to handle speed rushers - looks pretty good so far)

Calvin Johnson - Well he pretty much was perfect, the only minor thing I remember was potentially how his long strides would translate -> No problem there.

Go_Eagles77
10-08-2008, 01:39 PM
damn that knee is creppy

Yeah seriously wtf?

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 02:56 PM
Those are some big quads.

Sniper
10-08-2008, 02:58 PM
Jake Long - Agility/Quickness (ability to handle speed rushers - looks pretty good so far)



Eh, 2 sacks and 1 hold. Not bad. He's also a sweet run blocker.

Race for the Heisman
10-08-2008, 07:35 PM
Eh, 2 sacks and 1 hold. Not bad. He's also a sweet run blocker.

Yeah, I kind of regretted passing judgment (not exactly, but you know what I mean) so quickly, but meh.

FuzzyGopher
10-08-2008, 10:55 PM
That's pretty funny about Landry, and I'm pretty sure them made him drop about 10 pounds this year because he was to bulky.