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View Full Version : Giants working on $100 million contract for Eli?


Splat
10-08-2008, 03:18 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors

The rumor is the Giants and Manning's people are working on an extension that would make the quarterback a millionaire more than 100 times over, and basically cover the rest of his football career. The deal reportedly will surpass the seven-year, $99.2 million contract brother Peyton signed with the Colts in 2004. That deal included a $34.5 million signing bonus.

DeathbyStat
10-08-2008, 03:19 PM
BEN, eli, is philip next?

ChezPower4
10-08-2008, 03:23 PM
BEN, eli, is philip next?

I think that Cutler will be the next to sign the dotted line worth "100 Million Dollors"

bored of education
10-08-2008, 03:24 PM
Bbrodie Croyle shold work on a $100 million dollar deal to leave to and never play football again anddrink lots of milk.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 03:24 PM
Manning's people are working on an extension that would make the quarterback a millionaire more than 100 times over

When you put it this way, it makes me that much more disgusted. All for playing a game.

Saints-Tigers
10-08-2008, 03:24 PM
Makes me appreciate that Drew Brees contract in hindsight.

Splat
10-08-2008, 03:29 PM
When you put it this way, it makes me that much more disgusted. All for playing a game.

I agree but it is what it is if they keep paying it players are going to keep taking it.

DeathbyStat
10-08-2008, 03:30 PM
I think that Cutler will be the next to sign the dotted line worth "100 Million Dollors"

Yeah thats what i was thinking too

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 03:31 PM
I agree but it is what it is if they keep paying it players are going to keep taking it.

I have other reasons to hate Eli, I won't hold this against him......as long as he continues to perform......first 3 int game, **** will be thrown at the $100 million man and his front office.


About Cutler, some argue (lol) that Cutler's imminent (lol) diabetes complications would keep the Broncos from signing him uber long term. Incentives anyone?

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 03:38 PM
I have other reasons to hate Eli, I won't hold this against him......as long as he continues to perform......first 3 int game, **** will be thrown at the $100 million man and his front office.


About Cutler, some argue (lol) that Cutler's imminent (lol) diabetes complications would keep the Broncos from signing him uber long term. Incentives anyone?

Eli isn't worth 100 million as the face of the giants franchise. I'm sorry. That's completely nuts.

And definite LOL possibilities on cutler.

abaddon41_80
10-08-2008, 03:40 PM
Eli worth more than Peyton? I just can't believe that.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-08-2008, 03:40 PM
When you put it this way, it makes me that much more disgusted. All for playing a game.

We pay his salary by paying attention to the league. If we ignored the league and relegated it to WNBA or NLL(is that even still around?) levels, we'd be seeing no multi-million dollar contracts.

Not to mention, he does more than play just a game. I've posted about it in the past, so I'll refrain from doing it now, but there's a lot more to a football player's life than playing 16+ games per year.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 03:41 PM
Hopefully the new CBA will do something to get this **** under control.


Not to mention, he does more than play just a game.

He could give half of his assets to charity and every hour of free time helping down syndrome kids, I would still hate him.

P-L
10-08-2008, 03:41 PM
Eli worth more than Peyton? I just can't believe that.
Peyton's contract is 4 years old.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 03:48 PM
WAR ELI!!!!!!!

http://lowernotes.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/eli1.jpg
Now he can forever intoxicate young females. (and himself)


"what's your age darlin'?"
"six--"
"EIGHTEEN, nice!"

abaddon41_80
10-08-2008, 03:49 PM
Peyton's contract is 4 years old.

There hasn't been enough inflation in the past 4 years for Eli to get a bigger contract than Peyton. Maybe if Peyton signed his contract 10 years but even that is a stretch because he is just so much better than Eli.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 03:51 PM
There hasn't been enough inflation in the past 4 years for Eli to get a bigger contract than Peyton. Maybe if Peyton signed his contract 10 years but even that is a stretch because he is just so much better than Eli.

Makes me think the Giants are acting like the Lions.

'If i could have one of them, i'd still take kitna over peyton or brady...'

wicket
10-08-2008, 03:52 PM
Eli worth more than Peyton? I just can't believe that.

Given age and this seasons performances he is, perhaps its his knee but peyton hasnt been that good really this season

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 03:52 PM
i don't understand how teams aren't hedging in case of a massive cap introduction and salary limiting due to inflation. this is the latest case of league stupidity.

BlindSite
10-08-2008, 04:10 PM
Eli worth more than Peyton? I just can't believe that.

Peyton will be thirty three this year. Lets say for arguments sake both QBs can play till the age of 37. Peyton is almost done. Whereas Eli has another ten years under centre.

That's another six years he'll be able to play when Peyton is out of the League.

From the perspective of a franchise looking toward the future, Eli is worth just as much, if not more than peyton. Especially since this year he's playing better football.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 04:13 PM
Peyton will be thirty three this year. Lets say for arguments sake both QBs can play till the age of 37. Peyton is almost done. Whereas Eli has another ten years under centre.

That's another six years he'll be able to play when Peyton is out of the League.

From the perspective of a franchise looking toward the future, Eli is worth just as much, if not more than peyton. Especially since this year he's playing better football.

I think peyton can go longer, he's never relied on his... legs or the strength of his arm, which are normally the first two things to go.

He will play till he's at least 40 and broken every passing record ever.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-08-2008, 04:14 PM
Hopefully the new CBA will do something to get this **** under control.

If the CBA changes, it wouldn't be fair because then the owners would get the money for not even playing a game. The players, for the most part(ignoring the obviously overpaid scrubs), are paid what they deserve because they earn that money for their team.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 04:16 PM
If the CBA changes, it wouldn't be fair because then the owners would get the money for not even playing a game. The players, for the most part(ignoring the obviously overpaid scrubs), are paid what they deserve because they earn that money for their team.

I'm just old school I guess. I'm the same way about baseball. Players should have to get a job in the offseason. Give them 50k per. :)

As for the owners not playing....too bad, they own the team, if it wasn't for them these guys would be trying to put that sociology or communications degree to use.

bantx
10-08-2008, 04:18 PM
Eli Manning $100 million Contract......LOL

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 04:42 PM
i don't understand how teams aren't hedging in case of a massive cap introduction and salary limiting due to inflation. this is the latest case of league stupidity.

Franchise QBs are going to get paid this much. Especially ones that have already delivered a Super Bowl. I don't see this type of contract limiting the Giants too much. All of our main pieces are signed long term minus Jacobs.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 04:51 PM
This is definitely a good thing for the NFC East.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 04:51 PM
If the CBA changes, it wouldn't be fair because then the owners would get the money for not even playing a game. The players, for the most part(ignoring the obviously overpaid scrubs), are paid what they deserve because they earn that money for their team.

The league itself makes too much money. The owners make too much money. The Players make too much money.

And you know what? They charge everyone 100+ dollars to go to any game. Not including parking.

**** the nfl. They can go eat my crap.

Sure, it's supply and demand, but i can't wait for the day people are like. **** this, i'm not going to pay for this.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 04:53 PM
The league itself makes too much money. The owners make too much money. The Players make too much money.

And you know what? They charge everyone 100+ dollars to go to any game. Not including parking.

**** the nfl. They can go eat my crap.

Yet people still go. They have one of the greatest products in the world. People eat it up and start looking foward to Sunday on Tuesday morning. Why shouldn't everyone be making money?

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 04:54 PM
This is definitely a good thing for the NFC East.

Care to explain?

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 04:54 PM
Sure, it's supply and demand, but i can't wait for the day people are like. **** this, i'm not going to pay for this.

With this funk we're experiencing, this will happen soon enough.

This is definitely a good thing for the NFC East.

Yes.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 05:02 PM
With this funk we're experiencing, this will happen soon enough.

Yes.

To the first part. It won't. I mean, the average fan already can't afford the tickets.

Second part. I agree with that too. The NFC east will be better with a QB who hasn't proven he can constantly be awesome.

abaddon41_80
10-08-2008, 05:03 PM
Peyton will be thirty three this year. Lets say for arguments sake both QBs can play till the age of 37. Peyton is almost done. Whereas Eli has another ten years under centre.

That's another six years he'll be able to play when Peyton is out of the League.

From the perspective of a franchise looking toward the future, Eli is worth just as much, if not more than peyton. Especially since this year he's playing better football.

Maybe at this point Eli is worth more than Peyton, highly debatable, but what I meant was that when Peyton signed his contract in 2004 he was much better than Eli is now.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:03 PM
Care to explain?

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
sar·casm /ˈsɑrkęzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sahr-kaz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

All seriousness aside, having the Giants commit that huge a cap number towards a mediocre quarterback is a great thing for the rest of the NFC East. If you wanna reward him for winning you a Superbowl, great, go ahead. But this money now isn't gonna help you win another one, in fact, it'll probably hurt you more than it'll help, so that = good thing for other teams.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 05:04 PM
To the first part. It won't. I mean, the average fan already can't afford the tickets.

Yeah, this is true.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 05:05 PM
Yeah, this is true.

It's like going to a 49'ers game where they eat cheese and break out the 98 burgundies.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:11 PM
All seriousness aside, having the Giants commit that huge a cap number towards a mediocre quarterback is a great thing for the rest of the NFC East. If you wanna reward him for winning you a Superbowl, great, go ahead. But this money now isn't gonna help you win another one, in fact, it'll probably hurt you more than it'll help, so that = good thing for other teams.

Well if you think he is a mediocre QB than I understand your point. If he is a mediocre QB than there are a ton of god awful QBs in this league. I trust Jerry Reese's judgement, he is basically batting 1.000 since becoming GM.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:13 PM
Well if you think he is a mediocre QB than I understand your point. If he is a mediocre QB than there are a ton of god awful QBs in this league. I trust Jerry Reese's judgement, he is basically batting 1.000 since becoming GM.

He's batting 1.000 because he has had, what, four at bats?

Yes, there are a lot of bad quarterbacks in this league. A crap load of them, actually. But only one crappy one is getting a $100 million contract.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:17 PM
He's batting 1.000 because he has had, what, four at bats?

Yes, there are a lot of bad quarterbacks in this league. A crap load of them, actually. But only one crappy one is getting a $100 million contract.

Jerry Reese has had more than "four at bats".

Eli is approaching Peyton status. The similarites are there. He is basically the same type of coach on the field that Peyton is. Remember people use to get on Peyton for choking, and he had never won a Super Bowl when getting that contract.

HawkeyeFan
10-08-2008, 05:17 PM
I'm
Laughing
My
Ass
Off

He won A Super Bowl, yeah yippy good job Eli.


No reason that Eli deserves that big of a contract let alone any other NFL players.

The Giants could sign him for $70mil and lower ticket prices for more fans to be able to go the game.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 05:18 PM
Eli is approaching Peyton status.

Um.

Sure. Really.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 05:19 PM
Jughead is approaching Number 10 status.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:19 PM
Jerry Reese has had more than "four at bats".

Eli is approaching Peyton status. The similarites are there. He is basically the same type of coach on the field that Peyton is. Remember people use to get on Peyton for choking, and he had never won a Super Bowl when getting that contract.

Do you care to explain what other "at bats" he has had, outside of one draft class?

The only similarity i see between Peyton and Eli is in their face and their jewelry. Eli makes horrible throws, and is still a pretty average quarterback now. Peyton was great for many years before he won his ring, which was why he got paid the ridiculous amount of money he did. Peyton got paid for his play, then the Superbowl was a bonus; Eli won a Superbowl, then got paid as a bonus.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:20 PM
The Giants could sign him for $70mil and lower ticket prices for more fans to be able to go the game.

Giants can charge whatever they want. They have a wait list about 35 years deep. The wait list alone could fill up 3 more Giants Stadiums

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:24 PM
Do you care to explain what other "at bats" he has had, outside of one draft class?

The only similarity i see between Peyton and Eli is in their face and their jewelry. Eli makes horrible throws, and is still a pretty average quarterback now. Peyton was great for many years before he won his ring, which was why he got paid the ridiculous amount of money he did. Peyton got paid for his play, then the Superbowl was a bonus; Eli won a Superbowl, then got paid as a bonus.

I guess you have to watch him every week to see the change. He is the entire offense. There has been a shift from Gilbride being the OC to Eli being the OC. And during that shift the Giants have been 8-1. Eli calls the plays, protections, everything.

As for Reese. Jerry has been shrewd in all aspects of getting players. You brought up the draft class. That is one. Picking up a player like Madison Hedgecock off waivers. And then locking him up long term at pennies. Same with Dominik Hixon. Picked up off waivers. Locked up Justin Tuck long term before the playoffs last year, when now he probably could have made a ton more. I believe our whole offensive line is under contract for 3 more seasons after this one. Like I said, besides Jacobs, not one key player is scheduled to hit free agency for two to three years.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:26 PM
I guess you have to watch him every week to see the change. He is the entire offense. There has been a shift from Gilbride being the OC to Eli being the OC. And during that shift the Giants have been 8-1. Eli calls the plays, protections, everything.

And that makes him worth $100 million, and a comparison to arguably the greatest quarterback of all time?

A lot of teams allow their quarterback adjust plays and protections at the line. Let's not get carried away with a shiny little mirror here. That offense is doing great because of the great running game and solid offensive line. Eli Manning is nothing more than a glorified bus driver.

21ST
10-08-2008, 05:27 PM
This is definitely a good thing for the NFC East.

It really is, best news i have heard all day

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 05:28 PM
Eli Manning is nothing more than a glorified bus driver.

^^^
lol, too easy for MS17.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 05:30 PM
Giants can charge whatever they want. They have a wait list about 35 years deep. The wait list alone could fill up 3 more Giants Stadiums

They should have made Giants stadium three times bigger then! And then simulcasted it at the meadowlands!

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:32 PM
And that makes him worth $100 million, and a comparison to arguably the greatest quarterback of all time?

A lot of teams allow their quarterback adjust plays and protections at the line. Let's not get carried away with a shiny little mirror here. That offense is doing great because of the great running game and solid offensive line. Eli Manning is nothing more than a glorified bus driver.

Glorified bus driver? The running game works because Eli makes the right calls at the line. He checks into runs in proper situations. It is the reason we have three RBs who are getting it done at huge clips. The O-line has a ton to do with it, but Eli does as well. More so than any RB on this team.

He makes more pre snap decisions and adjustments than any QB minus his brother. The reason the contract is more than Peyton's is because it is 4 years later.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:33 PM
They should have made Giants stadium three times bigger then! And then simulcasted it at the meadowlands!

Well it was the largest Stadium in the NFL for some time. Only Fed Ex Field is larger now. The new stadium should hold 2,000 more. The new Cowboys Stadium could be bigger, I'm not sure.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 05:33 PM
Glorified bus driver? The running game works because Eli makes the right calls at the line. He checks into runs in proper situations. It is the reason we have three RBs who are getting it done at huge clips. The O-line has a ton to do with it, but Eli does as well. More so than any RB on this team.

He makes more pre snap decisions and adjustments than any QB minus his brother. The reason the contract is more than Peyton's is because it is 4 years later.

Rumor has it that half of the stuff Peyton does at the line is bs.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:36 PM
Rumor has it that half of the stuff Peyton does at the line is bs.

Well both Eli and Peyton go into the huddle with a formation and three plays out of that formation. Then call what they think is the right play by reading the defense. I don't know of any other QBs with that on their table. I could be wrong though. Quite a few of Eli's incompletions are the result of the WRs not seeing what Eli does and running incorrect routes. Shockey was the king of that.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:36 PM
Glorified bus driver? The running game works because Eli makes the right calls at the line. He checks into runs in proper situations. It is the reason we have three RBs who are getting it done at huge clips. The O-line has a ton to do with it, but Eli does as well. More so than any RB on this team.

He makes more pre snap decisions and adjustments than any QB minus his brother. The reason the contract is more than Peyton's is because it is 4 years later.

I fail to see how having the authority to make pre-snap decisions make him one of the best quarterbacks in the league. If he's that good, become a O.C. You know what they say; If you can't do, teach. He's just not a very good passer.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:38 PM
Well both Eli and Peyton go into the huddle with a formation and three plays out of that formation. Then call what they think is the right play by reading the defense. I don't know of any other QBs with that on their table. I could be wrong though.

Tony Romo and Tom Brady FOR SURE, do that. I doubt that the Steelers, Eagles, Seahawks, Carolina, Green Bay (last year), Saints and Chargers deny their quarterback the option of changing into a possibly more productive play.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:42 PM
Tony Romo and Tom Brady FOR SURE, do that. I doubt that the Steelers, Eagles, Seahawks, Carolina, Green Bay (last year), Saints and Chargers deny their quarterback the option of changing into a possibly more productive play.

As great as Brady is, and I think he has been the best in the league for the last 5 years now, I've never heard of him having that amount of control on the offense. Same for Romo. Of course every Qb can check down to certain things (for example if they see a corner playing way off, they can just throw the ball and let the WR get an easy 6-7 yards), but I don't know of any with the responsibilities that both Mannings have.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 05:46 PM
The Mannings must have some freak gene that allows them to control an offense to perfection, well, that or maybe their idiotic and exaggerated body language just makes us think they do more than they actually do.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-08-2008, 05:46 PM
Let's see he has the Giants undefeated(after everyone thought they were a fluke), he's continuing his own great play from last year(which everyone thought was a fluke), and he doesn't have an eight-game interception streak.

Really, I think everyone is just hating on the Giants. He might not be THE best QB, but he is way, way up there.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:47 PM
As great as Brady is, and I think he has been the best in the league for the last 5 years now, I've never heard of him having that amount of control on the offense. Same for Romo. Of course every Qb can check down to certain things (for example if they see a corner playing way off, they can just throw the ball and let the WR get an easy 6-7 yards), but I don't know of any with the responsibilities that both Mannings have.

Wow, seriously? You've never heard of Tom Brady having that type of control? Charlie Weis went on Colin Cowherd last season talking how when he was still OC, they'd give Brady two passing plays and two running plays. Jason Garrett came out and said last week after the Washington game that the reason MB didn't get as many touches as he should have was because Romo checked down to other plays after seeing what the defense was doing, and that all of them were the proper reads. It's not as uncommon as you think.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 05:50 PM
Wow, seriously? You've never heard of Tom Brady having that type of control? Charlie Weis went on Colin Cowherd last season talking how when he was still OC, they'd give Brady two passing plays and two running plays. Jason Garrett came out and said last week after the Washington game that the reason MB didn't get as many touches as he should have was because Romo checked down to other plays after seeing what the defense was doing, and that all of them were the proper reads. It's not as uncommon as you think.

Didn't the Cowboys lose that game? I don't trust that comment. They were clearly forcing the ball to TO to keep him happy after only having 2 catches the week before despite winnning.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:50 PM
Let's see he has the Giants undefeated(after everyone thought they were a fluke), he's continuing his own great play from last year(which everyone thought was a fluke), and he doesn't have an eight-game interception streak.

Really, I think everyone is just hating on the Giants. He might not be THE best QB, but he is way, way up there.

And by great play you mean average against good teams and picking apart the bad ones. He easily should have had three, maybe four picks against the Redskins, a team that was playing horribly (where they barely slipped by thanks to a coach not instituting a two minute offense during training camp). The Bungles took them to OT, and he has had two very good games against the Seahawks (lol) and the Rams (bigger lol).

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 05:51 PM
Didn't the Cowboys lose that game? I don't trust that comment. They were clearly forcing the ball to TO to keep him happy after only having 2 catches the week before despite winnning.

The Cowboys losing that game has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you overrate and overvalue Eli Manning changing plays at the LOS.

scottyboy
10-08-2008, 05:55 PM
Eli sux so bad, lyke s0 over-rated. He plays lyke **** against good defenses like the cowboyz and patri0tz lolz. lyke, Tony Romo's contract after dropping snaps and losing in the playoffs iz so much m0re deserved guys

ChezPower4
10-08-2008, 05:59 PM
Let's see he has the Giants undefeated(after everyone thought they were a fluke), he's continuing his own great play from last year(which everyone thought was a fluke), and he doesn't have an eight-game interception streak.

Really, I think everyone is just hating on the Giants. He might not be THE best QB, but he is way, way up there.

Eli has played great but he has not played great for whole season yet. So i kinda have a problem with giving a guy who hasn't played at an elite level for at least one season. I think that it would be smart for the Giants to wait at least one season. If i were a Giants fan i would prefer two, 100 million dollars is a lot of money and at this time last year if the Giants were going to sign Eli to a 100 million dollar contract... 95% of us on this fourm would say that the Giants are out of their minds to give Eli that kind of money.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 06:00 PM
erm...just a tad too early for some outlandish type of deal like that. How about he actually plays a good team this season before throwing money at him? Yes, he played well in the playoffs and has started off great this year...but, um that is w/ one of the easiest schedules in the league. There is no guarantee that Eli has even "arrived" yet. They've played a bunch of cupcakes and a Redskins team that was a completely different team than they are now. Still doesnt change the fact that Eli has one of the lowest completion percentages, qb ratings, and one of the highest int rates of any QB over his starting tenure. I'll admit, he's looking much better but, I wouldnt give him anywhere near $100 million especially, this early in the season. That could just be asking for trouble. Funny how quickly people forget how bad Eli usually is. Now again, he could be making the turn but, with the current strength of schedule, there isnt really a way to tell for sure. Want some good advice? Wait on it.

Vikes99ej
10-08-2008, 06:00 PM
I would pay $300 million for a quarterback of Eli Manning's level right now.

Matthew Jones
10-08-2008, 06:02 PM
Eli is establishing himself as a clutch quarterback and a good leader. His statistics this year are very strong, even if he has played cupcake teams. He's a Super Bowl winner at quarterback largely because of his play and he should get compensated for that. However, compensation should be more along the lines of 6-$60, not 10-$100.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:04 PM
Jug it's worthless. Let them go...Eli will make them look silly, again.

scottyboy
10-08-2008, 06:04 PM
Eli is establishing himself as a clutch quarterback and a good leader. His statistics this year are very strong, even if he has played cupcake teams. He's a Super Bowl winner at quarterback largely because of his play and he should get compensated for that. However, compensation should be more along the lines of 6-$60, not 10-$100.

either way that's 10 mil a year. why not lock up your young, super bowl MVP QB for 10 years? Get it down and out of the way.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:07 PM
Peyton will be thirty three this year. Lets say for arguments sake both QBs can play till the age of 37. Peyton is almost done. Whereas Eli has another ten years under centre.

That's another six years he'll be able to play when Peyton is out of the League.

From the perspective of a franchise looking toward the future, Eli is worth just as much, if not more than peyton. Especially since this year he's playing better football.

thanks for making sense.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 06:07 PM
Jug it's worthless. Let them go...Eli will make them look silly, again.

Let them go = ignore the fact that Eli has done nothing commendable this season. He's just getting paid for the Tyree prayer and the throw to Plastico. Don't deny it.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:11 PM
Let them go = ignore the fact that Eli has done nothing commendable this season. He's just getting paid for the Tyree prayer and the throw to Plastico. Don't deny it.

Did you enjoy watching the game? I know I did.

I find it funny that the biggest Eli haters out there are always Cowboys fans. Even though Eli Manning has made a career out of handing that Cowboy's defense its ass twice a year.


Cowboy fans, more than any other team in the league, should know how good Eli is. But I forgot, he can't possibly be better than Tony Romo, a qb who has pulled off 2 of the biggest chokejobs in recent playoff memory the past 2 years.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:12 PM
Let them go = ignore the fact that Eli has done nothing commendable this season. He's just getting paid for the Tyree prayer and the throw to Plastico. Don't deny it.

Are you honestly going to even attempt to give off the notion you are not a hater that lacks rationale after saying that?

Do some research and check out some of the contracts that have been given out the past 2-3 offseasons to linebackers, guards, cornerbacks....

And then come back and tell me a legit franchise QB that plays his best in the biggest games and has knack for stepping up in the clutch who also has a Super Bowl ring on his finger along with 3 playoff apperances in his 3 seasons as a starter does not deserve this contract.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-08-2008, 06:12 PM
Are you blaming him for not playing back to back to back games against Carolina, Tennessee, Dallas, and Pittsburgh? It's not his damned fault he's had an easy schedule, and he's performed every bit as well as you can ask for. He's been great for the Giants. I don't think he's going to flame out, because if you look at last year, he came on strong at the end. Most flukes don't do that. Let's look at other flukes:

Derek Anderson, started hot, flamed out.
Garrard, looked like one of the most efficient QBs to come around in a long time, flamed out and is now a solid game manager.

Both of these guys got worse later in the year. Eli turned it on later in the year. Again, you can't blame him for what he is unable to do. Just get over your Giants hate.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:15 PM
The one thing I cannot stand about some of these kids here is this:

Contracts have much more to do with economics than your opinion of them as a football player. These contract figures much more often than not are not picked out of thin air. There are teams in the NFL that pay people full time salaries to evaluate the finances in the market when it comes to stats, wins....etc. The Giants hold their company checkbook tight to the chest, they are not an overspending organization like some.

Economics people, think about it.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:17 PM
The one thing I cannot stand about some of these kids here is this:

Contracts have much more to do with economics than your opinion of them as a football player. These contract figures much more often than not are not picked out of thin air. There are teams in the NFL that pay people full time salaries to evaluate the finances in the market when it comes to stats, wins....etc. The Giants hold their company checkbook tight to the chest, they are not an overspending organization like some.

Economics people, think about it.

We just saw Calvin Pace get what? 60 mill?

If Calvin Pace is worth that much, how much is Eli worth in the current market? 100 mill sounds about right.

its common sense. it shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 06:20 PM
Did you enjoy watching the game? I know I did.

I find it funny that the biggest Eli haters out there are always Cowboys fans. Even though Eli Manning has made a career out of handing that Cowboy's defense its ass twice a year.


Cowboy fans, more than any other team in the league, should know how good Eli is. But I forgot, he can't possibly be better than Tony Romo, a qb who has pulled off 2 of the biggest chokejobs in recent playoff memory the past 2 years.

Our secondary tends to get beat up by most Qbs...so, I hold no grudges at all....and I'm not hating. I'm just pointing out that he hasnt played anyone this year...obviously, that isnt his fault. But, you dont just hand a guy a $100 million contract before he even faces anyone of note. You cant forget what he has been over his career and that is not a QB worthy of such a contract. People forget way too freaking easily, how bad he was...because, of a good playoff run? That almost wouldnt have been, if it wasnt for Jacque Reeves anyway. He didnt even have a good year last year. I'm just saying to wait on it.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 06:22 PM
Did you enjoy watching the game? I know I did.

I find it funny that the biggest Eli haters out there are always Cowboys fans. Even though Eli Manning has made a career out of handing that Cowboy's defense its ass twice a year.


Cowboy fans, more than any other team in the league, should know how good Eli is. But I forgot, he can't possibly be better than Tony Romo, a qb who has pulled off 2 of the biggest chokejobs in recent playoff memory the past 2 years.

Oh i enjoyed it, very much so, actually. I'm glad he helped beat the Patriots.

If handing Dallas their ass means being .500 against them, that's not too bad. This has absolutely nothing to do with Tony Romo, or the Cowboys, and the fact that you Giants homers bring that up when talking about your player just goes to show how ignorant your arguments are. I'm not talking about Romo, the Seahawks game or the Giants games. You're the one that brings them up every time. Am i not allowed an opinion on your QB and the amount of money you're willing to give him, simply because i'm a Cowboys fan? Great logic. :rolleyes:

Are you honestly going to even attempt to give off the notion you are not a hater that lacks rationale after saying that?

Do some research and check out some of the contracts that have been given out the past 2-3 offseasons to linebackers, guards, cornerbacks....

And then come back and tell me a legit franchise QB that plays his best in the biggest games and has knack for stepping up in the clutch who also has a Super Bowl ring on his finger along with 3 playoff apperances in his 3 seasons as a starter does not deserve this contract.

I don't care what Dwight Freeney, Leonard Davis or Brian Urlacher got paid in the past two off-seasons, because they don't play quarterback. I could give a rats #!* what they got paid when compared to Eli Manning. I'm comparing his contract with his level of play and the contracts of other players at HIS position.

Are you blaming him for not playing back to back to back games against Carolina, Tennessee, Dallas, and Pittsburgh? It's not his damned fault he's had an easy schedule, and he's performed every bit as well as you can ask for. He's been great for the Giants. I don't think he's going to flame out, because if you look at last year, he came on strong at the end. Most flukes don't do that. Let's look at other flukes:

Derek Anderson, started hot, flamed out.
Garrard, looked like one of the most efficient QBs to come around in a long time, flamed out and is now a solid game manager.

Both of these guys got worse later in the year. Eli turned it on later in the year. Again, you can't blame him for what he is unable to do. Just get over your Giants hate.

No, i'm not blaming him for anything. I'm simply pointing out that against cupcake teams, he put up good numbers, and struggled against the one good team they've played. How exactly has he been great? If it weren't for Washington DB's having the dropsies against them, he would have about three more INT's in his stats. Derek Anderson and David Garrard have NOTHING to do with Eli Manning, so why in the world are you bringing them up?

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 06:24 PM
We just saw Calvin Pace get what? 60 mill?

If Calvin Pace is worth that much, how much is Eli worth in the current market? 100 mill sounds about right.

its common sense. it shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend.

You're using a miserable franchise as your barometer for logic. Great job.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:24 PM
Our secondary tends to get beat up by most Qbs...so, I hold no grudges at all....and I'm not hating. I'm just pointing out that he hasnt played anyone this year...obviously, that isnt his fault. But, you dont just hand a guy a $100 million contract before he even faces anyone of note. You cant forget what he has been over his career and that is not a QB worthy of such a contract. People forget way too freaking easily, how bad he was...because, of a good playoff run? That almost wouldnt have been, if it wasnt for Jacque Reeves anyway. He didnt even have a good year last year. I'm just saying to wait on it.

i understood your comment. and im sure the Giants will do exactly what you said, wait.

they won't make this signing probably until later in the season.

having that said, i see no indications so far that he will go back to the inconsistent Eli. Ive said all along, it wasn't Eli who "turned the corner", it was the coaching staff.

That was the main reason why he played and continues to play the way he does. You just have to watch him play to get what Im saying. Its like when people thought Romo would have a "down year". If you saw Romo play, you knew that wouldn't happen. Same with Eli. I'll be shocked if he starts playing poorly again.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 06:27 PM
Love it. Give a non top 10 QB/possibly fringe top 10 QB 100 million. Can't wait till the Giants fans are screaming to get rid of him. Again.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:28 PM
Oh i enjoyed it, very much so, actually. I'm glad he helped beat the Patriots.

If handing Dallas their ass means being .500 against them, that's not too bad. This has absolutely nothing to do with Tony Romo, or the Cowboys, and the fact that you Giants homers bring that up when talking about your player just goes to show how ignorant your arguments are. I'm not talking about Romo, the Seahawks game or the Giants games. You're the one that brings them up every time. Am i not allowed an opinion on your QB and the amount of money you're willing to give him, simply because i'm a Cowboys fan? Great logic. :rolleyes:



I don't care what Dwight Freeney, Leonard Davis or Brian Urlacher got paid in the past two off-seasons, because they don't play quarterback. I could give a rats #!* what they got paid when compared to Eli Manning. I'm comparing his contract with his level of play and the contracts of other players at HIS position.



No, i'm not blaming him for anything. I'm simply pointing out that against cupcake teams, he put up good numbers, and struggled against the one good team they've played. How exactly has he been great? If it weren't for Washington DB's having the dropsies against them, he would have about three more INT's in his stats. Derek Anderson and David Garrard have NOTHING to do with Eli Manning, so why in the world are you bringing them up?

No. Its obvious youre just being a blind hater on Eli Manning. Saying something as dumb as Eli Manning just threw a miracle to Tyree and lobs to Burress made any argument you want to formulate a joke. Bc thats obviously the words of someone being bitter.

Its one thing to bring up a logical critique of the guy. Its another thing to say what you said.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:29 PM
You're using a miserable franchise as your barometer for logic. Great job.

Microeconomics 101.

Its offered at every college, and its a 100 level course. Check it out, its pretty cool.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:31 PM
MetSox-

You don't get it. Contracts that were given out a couple years ago can't be compared to a contract given out today. ECONOMICS!!!!! Can you imagine what QB salaries are going to be if and when the NFL goes into an uncapped year? Eli's would be one of the cheapest among the top 10 QBs in the league.

I'm not saying you need to agree with the contract, that doesn't matter. But to imply he has done nothing to deserve it after what he has done over the course of his first 3+ seasons is atrocious. You say you don't care about other players deals...but you are neglecting the fact that it is a huge portion of any contract negotiation whether you like it or not. That's economics for you.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 06:33 PM
i understood your comment. and im sure the Giants will do exactly what you said, wait.

they won't make this signing probably until later in the season.

having that said, i see no indications so far that he will go back to the inconsistent Eli. Ive said all along, it wasn't Eli who "turned the corner", it was the coaching staff.

That was the main reason why he played and continues to play the way he does. You just have to watch him play to get what Im saying. Its like when people thought Romo would have a "down year". If you saw Romo play, you knew that wouldn't happen. Same with Eli. I'll be shocked if he starts playing poorly again.

I do watch Eli regularly, I have NFL sunday ticket and when I didnt... come on, I live NJ. I do admit, he's improved but, there is always a chance he'll revert. The Bengals, Seahawks, and the Rams are god awful in all aspects. Granted the Bengals are playing tough...I dont just say that because, of the Cowboy game either. They did step up against you guys as well. We should learn a few things about Eli when he runs into a tougher stretch. Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles and Ravens in consecutive weeks should be a pretty good test.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 06:34 PM
I'm not saying you need to agree with the contract, that doesn't matter. But to imply he has done nothing to deserve it after what he has done over the course of his first 3+ seasons is atrocious.


Except for the fact that over his career, his play doesn't warant this kind of contract.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:34 PM
I do watch Eli regularly, I have NFL sunday ticket and when I didnt... come on, I live NJ. I do admit, he's improved but, there is always a chance he'll revert. The Bengals, Seahawks, and the Rams are god awful in all aspects. Granted the Bengals are playing tough...I dont just say that because, of the Cowboy game either. They did step up against you guys as well. We should learn a few things about Eli when he runs into a tougher stretch. Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles and Ravens in consecutive weeks should be a pretty good test.

i can live with that.

Answer me this though, do you feel Eli Manning is clutch, even with his inconsistencies?

you've watched him enough to give me an honest answer to that.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:36 PM
I do watch Eli regularly, I have NFL sunday ticket and when I didnt... come on, I live NJ. I do admit, he's improved but, there is always a chance he'll revert. The Bengals, Seahawks, and the Rams are god awful in all aspects. Granted the Bengals are playing tough...I dont just say that because, of the Cowboy game either. They did step up against you guys as well. We should learn a few things about Eli when he runs into a tougher stretch. Steelers, Cowboys, Eagles and Ravens in consecutive weeks should be a pretty good test.

There is a chance your investment will bust in any sector, football or not. No investment will ever be a sure thing. Of course there is a chance that Eli will not be worth half this contract. But if you say that, then you HAVE to say there is a chance he will outplay this contract by bringing a couple more Lombardi Trophies to New York. You can't put a price on a winner.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 06:36 PM
MetSox-

You don't get it. Contracts that were given out a couple years ago can't be compared to a contract given out today. ECONOMICS!!!!! Can you imagine what QB salaries are going to be if and when the NFL goes into an uncapped year? Eli's would be one of the cheapest among the top 10 QBs in the league.

I'm not saying you need to agree with the contract, that doesn't matter. But to imply he has done nothing to deserve it after what he has done over the course of his first 3+ seasons is atrocious. You say you don't care about other players deals...but you are neglecting the fact that it is a huge portion of any contract negotiation whether you like it or not. That's economics for you.

Not to mention over the last 4 years since Peyton's signed his contract we have seen a new CBA agreed upon and the salary cap go up in huge increments. The cap is 116 million this year, in 2005 it was 85 million.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 06:36 PM
i can live with that.

Answer me this though, do you feel Eli Manning is clutch, even with his inconsistencies?

you've watched him enough to give me an honest answer to that.

I certainly think he's clutch...he's a different player near the end of most games. I dont know why exactly but, that is something he just has. Same cant be said for even some of the best Qbs but, his play leading up to that...could be horrible at times. Just gotta wait and see still.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:39 PM
I certainly think he's clutch...he's a different player near the end of most games. I dont know why exactly but, that is something he just has. Same cant be said for even some of the best Qbs but, his play leading up to that...could be horrible at times. Just gotta wait and see still.

i respect that.

you give an honest evaluation. i can see why ppl outside our fanbase are skeptical, and you give valid reasons for it.

im just confident that he'll be legit, thats all.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:39 PM
Except for the fact that over his career, his play doesn't warant this kind of contract.

Says who? What's the bar set at right now for a QB that gets this kind of extension?

It depends on what you want out of a QB. A guy that has brought his team to the playoffs every year he has been a starter? A guy that wins Super Bowls? A guy that can win on the road? An excellent clutch QB?

Or do you want a guy that goes in the first round of fantasy drafts across the country?

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:41 PM
oh and btw ppl, Matt Ryan just signed a 72 million dollar deal.

Matt Ryan, a rookie.

Does it make sense now that Eli gets 100 mill with the current market?




I don't see whats so difficult to comprehend about that.

And make no mistake, me personally, id LOVE it if Eli made less. Are you kidding me? I wish he'd play for free. But I understand the economics of it, which drives the whole thing to begin with. It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 06:42 PM
A guy that has brought his team to the playoffs every year he has been a starter? A guy that wins Super Bowls? A guy that can win on the road?




I know you are a big Giants fan. But I'm pretty sure you are mixing up said guy and an entire defense and offensive line.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-08-2008, 06:42 PM
Except for the fact that over his career, his play doesn't warant this kind of contract.

Yes, but he's a young QB. He isn't a journeyman veteran that's been around and only been average his whole career until now. Young QBs tend to get better.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:43 PM
I know you are a big Giants fan. But I'm pretty sure you are mixing up said guy and an entire defense and offensive line.

So which one of those traits am I wrong about when it comes to Eli?

Dr. Gonzo
10-08-2008, 06:44 PM
Says who? What's the bar set at right now for a QB that gets this kind of extension?

It depends on what you want out of a QB. A guy that has brought his team to the playoffs every year he has been a starter? A guy that wins Super Bowls? A guy that can win on the road? An excellent clutch QB?

Or do you want a guy that goes in the first round of fantasy drafts across the country?

So you are saying you would rather have Eli than Peyton or Brady? Those are the only QB's going in the 1st round of fantasy drafts and maybe occasionally Romo.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 06:45 PM
So which one of those traits am I wrong about when it comes to Eli?


He's clutch. Cool. You made all of your statements like he carried the Giants on his back. It's a lot more like the defense and offensive line carried the team.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:46 PM
I know you are a big Giants fan. But I'm pretty sure you are mixing up said guy and an entire defense and offensive line.

And if you think Eli is simply a product of a good enviornment around him...

The Giants have more drops than ANY team in the league since the beginning of 2006. His starting left tackle gave up an NFC high 14 sacks in 2007.

Now I would be wrong if I said the supporting cast is weak. The Giants defense is evolving into top 10 caliber and the depth at RB and WR may be tops in the league. But you know what? I got grilled for talking about that on Sunday, so you guys can't have it both ways? Was every one of you wrong on Sunday, or are you wrong about Eli?

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:48 PM
So you are saying you would rather have Eli than Peyton or Brady? Those are the only QB's going in the 1st round of fantasy drafts and maybe occasionally Romo.

You're missing the point now.

Peyton? Not right now, maybe in a few years when he is nearing the end. Brady? Hell no.

I'm implying that pointing to statistics when evaluating a QB is foolish. Do you disagree?

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 06:48 PM
Not a huge surprise. All of the Eli jock riders/Giants fans flock to this thread to defend the potential move, everyone else sees it for what it's worth.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 06:49 PM
meh...you just went a little too overboard after beating a really bad team.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:49 PM
oh and btw ppl, Matt Ryan just signed a 72 million dollar deal.

Matt Ryan, a rookie.

Does it make sense now that Eli gets 100 mill with the current market?




I don't see whats so difficult to comprehend about that.

And make no mistake, me personally, id LOVE it if Eli made less. Are you kidding me? I wish he'd play for free. But I understand the economics of it, which drives the whole thing to begin with. It shouldn't be that hard to understand.

so yeah....anyone want to take a stab at this post for me?

any takers?

id love to hear it.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:50 PM
Not a huge surprise. All of the Eli jock riders/Giants fans flock to this thread to defend the potential move, everyone else sees it for what it's worth.

Once again you make another post without adding to a football related conversation. Start the personal jabs, neglect the conversation.

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 06:51 PM
so yeah....anyone want to take a stab at this post for me?

any takers?

id love to hear it.

You beat me to it. I was going to ask how much Jake Long made this year thinking it was even less than that.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 06:51 PM
That would still be over paying...Romo and Garrard basically have the same contract, Eli isnt worth $100 million even after Ryan's monster deal. It would probably be more than those two's deals just because, of Ryan but, $100 million at I dont know, 10 a year is just too much.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 06:52 PM
And if you think Eli is simply a product of a good enviornment around him...

The Giants have more drops than ANY team in the league since the beginning of 2006. His starting left tackle gave up an NFC high 14 sacks in 2007.

Now I would be wrong if I said the supporting cast is weak. The Giants defense is evolving into top 10 caliber and the depth at RB and WR may be tops in the league. But you know what? I got grilled for talking about that on Sunday, so you guys can't have it both ways? Was every one of you wrong on Sunday, or are you wrong about Eli?


Drops isn't the best way to look at your cast. A WR runs a quick slant, and the QB doesn't see the SS waiting in coverage. He gets it to the WR who gets his hands on it, but the SS lays him out and knocks the ball loose. That goes on the WR as a drop. Who's it really on? Eli has a solid run game, a good offensive line, and a great defense last year. That's why they made the playoffs. It certainly wasn't because of Eli. And you got "grilled" because you overreacted to a Super Bowl winning team beating up on a terrible team. Something that by all means should happen.

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 06:53 PM
Once again you make another post without adding to a football related conversation. Start the personal jabs, neglect the conversation.

I prefer unbiased football conversation, with a name like that I don't think you're qualified. Plus, what's left to be said?

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 06:55 PM
Eh, Bruce. You are just mad you can't nerd up football as much as you can baseball.

Some people try. But do a much worse job than they do with baseball.

Geo
10-08-2008, 06:56 PM
so yeah....anyone want to take a stab at this post for me?

any takers?

id love to hear it.
Well, with regards Matt Ryan's contract, that is the full value listed. Ie. the value if he meets all of the incentives. Now I don't know what/how the incentives are designed, if they are easy to attain or what. So it's not exactly cut and dry that Ryan is making 72 mil over the course of the contract.

(As points of example, Alex Smith and Cedric Benson didn't make close to their reported contract values. For good reason, obviously.)

Whereas in the case with Eli, that won't be near the case. He might have some backloaded years to merit another contract, maybe not. I thought that would be the case with Peyton, but he's now reached those years and honestly he's worth the money given the current market (and the fact that he wasn't making the average of his salary the first few years of the deal).

But that is just talking about the differences. The guaranteed money is probably the same, I don't feel like checking but Ryan's is probably around 33M. Eli's could touch 40M, depending on what Roethlisberger just had in his recent mega-deal himself and the ever-expanding market/cap. I don't have any problem whatsoever when this happens, myself.

Money has been spent a lot worse on extending some quarterbacks the last four years than this impending deal.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:57 PM
Drops isn't the best way to look at your cast. A WR runs a quick slant, and the QB doesn't see the SS waiting in coverage. He gets it to the WR who gets his hands on it, but the SS lays him out and knocks the ball loose. That goes on the WR as a drop. Who's it really on? Eli has a solid run game, a good offensive line, and a great defense last year. That's why they made the playoffs. It certainly wasn't because of Eli. And you got "grilled" because you overreacted to a Super Bowl winning team beating up on a terrible team. Something that by all means should happen.

So now we are coming up with situational stuff that you think might have happened?

Vikings game last year, remember that one?

All but one INT was because the intended receiver ran the wrong route. The Vikings blitzed the hell out of Eli, they were outnumbering blockers however they were delayed blitzes. The receivers did not run the hot routes, yet Eli gets the crappy end of the stat book.

Now that happens to every QB in the league, thus you overlook it as much as you can because it balances out. So the whole generic scenario you played out happens to every team as well, thus it balances out. See what I'm saying?

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 06:57 PM
That would still be over paying...Romo and Garrard basically have the same contract, Eli isnt worth $100 million even after Ryan's monster deal. It would probably be more than those two's deals just because, of Ryan but, $100 million at I dont know, 10 a year is just too much.

Moth, those contracts were signed prior to the Ryan deal. The economics of the league were different.

And as much as I love Romo and Garrard as qbs, i fail to why paying Eli roughly 4 mill/year more than Garrard (2 mill/year more than Romo) is such a big deal considering Garrard was less proven than Eli when he received his own contract.

2 years from now, ppl will view a 14 mill/season salary for a franchise qb to be a steal.

The same way Brees's contract is a steal in today's perspective, even though it was considered very high at the time.

It has little to do with football, and a lot to do with economics.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:57 PM
I prefer unbiased football conversation, with a name like that I don't think you're qualified. Plus, what's left to be said?

Didn't think so.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 06:57 PM
You're missing the point now.

Peyton? Not right now, maybe in a few years when he is nearing the end. Brady? Hell no.

I'm implying that pointing to statistics when evaluating a QB is foolish. Do you disagree?


Let me check this.


19/35 (54.3) for 216 yards and a INT. 2 rushes for -1 yard and a TD. Those would be Eli's stats against the Redskins. Should we just throw those stats out the window and proclaim that Eli won that game too, because he has the ball in his hands the most often?

Bruce Banner
10-08-2008, 06:58 PM
Eh, Bruce. You are just mad you can't nerd up football as much as you can baseball.


Not angry....

Number 10
10-08-2008, 06:59 PM
Drops isn't the best way to look at your cast. A WR runs a quick slant, and the QB doesn't see the SS waiting in coverage. He gets it to the WR who gets his hands on it, but the SS lays him out and knocks the ball loose. That goes on the WR as a drop. Who's it really on? Eli has a solid run game, a good offensive line, and a great defense last year. That's why they made the playoffs. It certainly wasn't because of Eli. And you got "grilled" because you overreacted to a Super Bowl winning team beating up on a terrible team. Something that by all means should happen.

Go check out how that whole ordeal began. I was talking about the depth the Giants have at RB and WR, and got told I was overreacting. Now I am being told the only reason Eli looks good is because of the depth....haha

Jughead10
10-08-2008, 06:59 PM
Well, with regards Matt Ryan's contract, that is the full value listed. Ie. the value if he meets all of the incentives. Now I don't know what/how the incentives are designed, if they are easy to attain or what. So it's not exactly cut and dry that Ryan is making 72 mil over the course of the contract.

(As points of example, Alex Smith and Cedric Benson didn't make close to their reported contract values. For good reason, obviously.)

Whereas in the case with Eli, that won't be near the case. He might have some backloaded years to merit another contract, maybe not. I thought that would be the case with Peyton, but he's now reached those years and honestly he's worth the money given the current market (and the fact that he wasn't making the average of his salary the first few years of the deal).

But that is just talking about the differences. The guaranteed money is probably the same, I don't feel like checking but Ryan's is probably around 33M. Eli's could touch 40M, depending on what Roethlisberger just had in his recent mega-deal himself and the ever-expanding market/cap. I don't have any problem whatsoever when this happens, myself.

Money has been spent a lot worse on extending some quarterbacks the last four years than this impending deal.

Good post. A just another thing to throw out there. The Giants are likely to save cap room in 2009 by signing him to this contract rather than him playing the last year of the rookie contract.

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 07:00 PM
Well, with regards Matt Ryan's contract, that is the full value listed. Ie. the value if he meets all of the incentives. Now I don't know what/how the incentives are designed, if they are easy to attain or what. So it's not exactly cut and dry that Ryan is making 72 mil over the course of the contract.

(As points of example, Alex Smith and Cedric Benson didn't make close to their reported contract values. For good reason, obviously.)

Whereas in the case with Eli, that won't be near the case. He might have some backloaded years to merit another contract, maybe not. I thought that would be the case with Peyton, but he's now reached those years and honestly he's worth the money given the current market (and the fact that he wasn't making the average of his salary the first few years of the deal).

But that is just talking about the differences. The guaranteed money is probably the same, I don't feel like checking but Ryan's is probably around 33M. Eli's could touch 40M, depending on what Roethlisberger just had in his recent mega-deal himself and the ever-expanding market/cap. I don't have any problem whatsoever when this happens, myself.

Money has been spent a lot worse on extending some quarterbacks the last four years than this impending deal.

my thoughts exactly. i mean look, its not like i want the guy to get paid a ton of money, its better for my team if he makes less.

but is it ridiculous for him to get this kind of contract? no way.

Theres at least 20 teams in the NFL that would be willing to pay him more than that to qb their team. If they could afford it, theyd do it. Take that to the bank.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 07:02 PM
Moth, those contracts were signed prior to the Ryan deal. The economics of the league were different.

And as much as I love Romo and Garrard as qbs, i fail to why paying Eli roughly 4 mill/year more than Garrard (2 mill/year more than Romo) is such a big deal considering Garrard was less proven than Eli when he received his own contract.

2 years from now, ppl will view a 14 mill/season salary for a franchise qb to be a steal.

The same way Brees's contract is a steal in today's perspective, even though it was considered very high at the time.

It has little to do with football, and a lot to do with economics.

I know they were signed prior to the deal...the inflation on a fair value Manning deal after Ryan's deal shouldnt be that much. $100 million deals should be reserved for the elite, a Qb who has sustained a high level of play for years, not just one post season. The value doesnt add up....unless you just want to over pay him because, he won you a Super Bowl. If i was a Giants fan, I would pray he didnt sign such a contract. Granted, the salary cap may be gone in a few anyway but, if it isnt, these types of deals can handicap a franchise...and as much as some may not want to here it...Eli is not yet a sure thing, that you can be throwing that kind of money at. I wouldnt jump the gun.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:03 PM
Let me check this.


19/35 (54.3) for 216 yards and a INT. 2 rushes for -1 yard and a TD. Those would be Eli's stats against the Redskins. Should we just throw those stats out the window and proclaim that Eli won that game too, because he has the ball in his hands the most often?

Who said Eli won that game?

Anyone?

Go check out Jason Campbell's stats in that game, and tell me he outperformed Manning.

Geo
10-08-2008, 07:03 PM
The full contract values can mean so many things depending on how the contract is broken down, it's amazing.

Guaranteed money isn't only the money a player can count on, but as I'm starting to think, also a prevention measure against getting cut in the future. Which coupled with a good base salary, bodes almost doubly well for that player.

scottyboy
10-08-2008, 07:04 PM
gosh, I'm so upset we resigned our young QB that led us into the playoffs 3 straight years. How terrible.

Bruce, this is in all honesty and I have thought this for a while: Do you ever bring a legit argument or point to a thread or do you just bash everyone else?

and BBD, don't waste your breath, it's only metsox.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 07:06 PM
So now we are coming up with situational stuff that you think might have happened?

Vikings game last year, remember that one?

All but one INT was because the intended receiver ran the wrong route. The Vikings blitzed the hell out of Eli, they were outnumbering blockers however they were delayed blitzes. The receivers did not run the hot routes, yet Eli gets the crappy end of the stat book.

Now that happens to every QB in the league, thus you overlook it as much as you can because it balances out. So the whole generic scenario you played out happens to every team as well, thus it balances out. See what I'm saying?


Ok, we'll forget any kind of scenario. Fair enough? Eli threw the 7th most passes in all of football last year. When you throw more passes, your team is going to get more drops. Is it unsettling to be #1 in drops? Yes. Is it that impossible when you throw the 7th most passes? Nope. Fact is, Eli had an elite target to throw to, which is more then some others can say. (I'll spare you Shockey). Plax caught 23.5% of Eli's completions. Which is around where you'd expect it to be. Eli had his main target, everyone else and the 7th most attempts. When you have that, you're going to be up there in drops.

Geo
10-08-2008, 07:08 PM
I don't know how anyone could term a big deal for Eli ridiculous. There isn't another quarterback in the league as merited for such an investment as him, Rivers is a clear-cut second and Jay Cutler is a very distant third (he needs to keep playing on his rookie contract for two more years at least).

Eli has been injured less than Roethlisberger and Rivers, and just helped lead his team to a Super Bowl championship. The confidence of which has spurned his development further as a franchise quarterback.

scottyboy
10-08-2008, 07:08 PM
meh...you just went a little too overboard after beating a really bad team.

I highly doubt this is stemming from after the Seahawks game. I think it's been brewing for some time now, and even more so with Webster and Jacobs playing well thus far. With them being FA's after this year, the Giants wanted to ensure they locked up Eli long term, and knew how much they could spend on Webster and Jacobs(and even Ward)

bigbluedefense
10-08-2008, 07:09 PM
Meh, Im done with it. I don't want to jinx Eli. This is the first time Ive said anything about him on here for awhile.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:12 PM
Ok, we'll forget any kind of scenario. Fair enough? Eli threw the 7th most passes in all of football last year. When you throw more passes, your team is going to get more drops. Is it unsettling to be #1 in drops? Yes. Is it that impossible when you throw the 7th most passes? Nope. Fact is, Eli had an elite target to throw to, which is more then some others can say. (I'll spare you Shockey). Plax caught 23.5% of Eli's completions. Which is around where you'd expect it to be. Eli had his main target, everyone else and the 7th most attempts. When you have that, you're going to be up there in drops.

Don't think for one second that you can bring down Eli's quality as a passer because of Plax. If you do, same has to be said for Peyton and his TWO receivers that could end up in the hall of fame. Brady and Moss? Romo and TO/Witten? Delhomme and Smith? How about Ryan and White?

I understand and agree with the attempts argument. I would be interested to see where the numbers are when it comes to drop-per-pass ratio. My point is that you bringing up stats is only half the equation, if that. You would be crazy to dispute Eli is an elite QB when it matters most. And this could be opinion based, but when you think about it, isn't that what is most important when evaluating a QB?

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 07:12 PM
Who said Eli won that game?

Anyone?

Go check out Jason Campbell's stats in that game, and tell me he outperformed Manning.


You've said that Eli's lead, or Eli's carried, whatever. Maybe not for that game, but you also said, "I'm implying that pointing to statistics when evaluating a QB is foolish." So which is it? And now why are we looking at Campbell's stats if they are "foolish". Fact is, stats matter. They show me that Eli hasn't been winning these games for the Giants. I could go back and do the same thing for his stats last year when he "lead" the Giants to the Superbowl.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Meh, Im done with it. I don't want to jinx Eli. This is the first time Ive said anything about him on here for awhile.

We'll just have to wait and see.

I honestly dont know how I always get sucked into these things but, I'll take my leave as well. haha. Many of us have wasted too many hours beating a dead horse...and I dont know about you but, I'm against animal cruelty. :)

Last thing I'll say...I'd easily take Rivers over Eli all day, any day. Woo, I'm out. :D

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 07:14 PM
I highly doubt this is stemming from after the Seahawks game. I think it's been brewing for some time now, and even more so with Webster and Jacobs playing well thus far. With them being FA's after this year, the Giants wanted to ensure they locked up Eli long term, and knew how much they could spend on Webster and Jacobs(and even Ward)

I was talking about Number 10's homer/lovefest last week (no offense), not the contract.

Dammit, making me post again.

Malaka
10-08-2008, 07:15 PM
As a Giants fan, I really think this would be a dumb move. I thought we were a smart FO team that didn't overpay guys, I love Eli, I have always protected since he was drafted, but he is not worth a 100 million dollar contract. He certainly deserves a raise, surely he does, but not to this magnitude. I think if he Eli can play like he is doing (last years playoffs onward) for one or two more season, then he might be worth it. Do not get me started on the Matt Ryan deal I think that is a complete joke, just waaaaaaaaay tooooooooo much. I am done on the subject.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:16 PM
You've said that Eli's lead, or Eli's carried, whatever. Maybe not for that game, but you also said, "I'm implying that pointing to statistics when evaluating a QB is foolish." So which is it? And now why are we looking at Campbell's stats if they are "foolish". Fact is, stats matter. They show me that Eli hasn't been winning these games for the Giants. I could go back and do the same thing for his stats last year when he "lead" the Giants to the Superbowl.

Didn't Eli score a TD in that Redskins game?

My point was this...Campbell had better stats than Eli in that game, but who played better? Of course the Giants have won games where Eli has played poorly. But there have been times where he steps up when that O-line played absolutely horrid. When a QB goes to the playoffs the three years he has been a starter which includes 3 straight wins on the road capped off with a victory against an 18-0 team in the Super Bowl, all of the fluke talk has to be put in the rear view mirror.

Geo
10-08-2008, 07:17 PM
Now Jason Campbell is an interesting case, good mention. How much is he going to get? He's been the prime focus of Dan Snyder and the Redskins, and he's playing his best football yet ... even if just now he's living up to expectations (although you could say last year he did, I suppose). I would think he only gets better, especially as he develops with Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly (if his knees don't send him to early retirement).

6yrs/60M might be the consensus deal to be made, if Garrard and Romo got that this past summer, but again, the market is expanding and maybe beyond those "common" terms. Especially when it's known how much the Redskins want Campbell to be their best investment.

If I had to guess right now, I would say 6 yrs/75M might be where Campbell will eventually sign.

scottyboy
10-08-2008, 07:17 PM
I was talking about Number 10's homer/lovefest last week (no offense), not the contract.

Dammit, making me post again.

ah ok, i misunderstood. my bad, just an expaination anyway for those who cares lol :)

and I take no offense to you calling that a homerfest. we're all good.

and you have a Rutgers shirt, I'VE SEEN IT!

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:18 PM
I was talking about Number 10's homer/lovefest last week (no offense), not the contract.

Dammit, making me post again.

Blah Blah-

How soon you guys forget I have consistently ranked Romo and Big Ben ahead of Eli and I picked the Giants to finish 3rd in the division this year with an 8-8 record.

The lack of logical statements from some people is amazing here.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 07:19 PM
Don't think for one second that you can bring down Eli's quality as a passer because of Plax. If you do, same has to be said for Peyton and his TWO receivers that could end up in the hall of fame. Brady and Moss? Romo and TO/Witten? Delhomme and Smith? How about Ryan and White?

I understand and agree with the attempts argument. I would be interested to see where the numbers are when it comes to drop-per-pass ratio. My point is that you bringing up stats is only half the equation, if that. You would be crazy to dispute Eli is an elite QB when it matters most. And this could be opinion based, but when you think about it, isn't that what is most important when evaluating a QB?


I'm not bringing down his quality as a passer. I'm just saying, it's obvious that he had his man. He had his main target who is an upper-tier WR. So it's not like Eli's crew his a cluster**** of pass dropping wideouts. He had a very good target to go to when he needed it most.


Eli's clutch. Won't deny it. Being clutch is apart of his creation though. If he plays like the QB his soon to be contract indicates, Giants aren't in as many "clutch" spots because they'd have a very good QB along with a very good defense, etc. and they wouldn't be in as many of the situations. Being clutch is important, but when a guy lights it up the entire time, it's not unfair for him to need a little help when the biggest time comes, so I wouldn't agree with it being the only way to evaluate a QB, abeit it's still important.

MetSox17
10-08-2008, 07:20 PM
I honestly dont know how I always get sucked into these things but, I'll take my leave as well. haha. Many of us have wasted too many hours beating a dead horse...and I dont know about you but, I'm againt animal cruelty. :)

Last thing I'll say...I'd easily take Rivers over Eli all day, any day. Woo, I'm out. :D

I haven't been here long enough to realize how quickly the flock of homers band together to attack one person's opinion in ridiculously illogical manners.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:20 PM
Now Jason Campbell is an interesting case, good mention. How much is he going to get? He's been the prime focus of Dan Snyder and the Redskins, and he's playing his best football yet ... even if just now he's living up to expectations (although you could say last year he did, I suppose). I would think he only gets better, especially as he develops with Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly (if his knees don't send him to early retirement).

6yrs/60M might be the consensus deal to be made, if Garrard and Romo got that this past summer, but again, the market is expanding and maybe beyond those "common" terms. Especially when it's known how much the Redskins want Campbell to be their best investment.

IF Eli does get this deal, there is going to be a lot of debate as to who gets what over the next year. Campbell still has a long ways to go in terms of proving himself. I don't feel like checking out how many games he has played, but I would think the Skins won't even look at extending him until well after this season.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:26 PM
I'm not bringing down his quality as a passer. I'm just saying, it's obvious that he had his man. He had his main target who is an upper-tier WR. So it's not like Eli's crew his a clusterfuck of pass dropping wideouts. He had a very good target to go to when he needed it most.


Eli's clutch. Won't deny it. Being clutch is apart of his creation though. If he plays like the QB his soon to be contract indicates, Giants aren't in as many "clutch" spots because they'd have a very good QB along with a very good defense, etc. and they wouldn't be in as many of the situations. Being clutch is important, but when a guy lights it up the entire time, it's not unfair for him to need a little help when the biggest time comes, so I wouldn't agree with it being the only way to evaluate a QB, abeit it's still important.

You have a point, but I never said it is the only way to evaluate a QB. I just think it is most important. Look, do you want Eli has your fantasy QB? Of course not. He is not a numbers guy. But over the years I have noticed that because a lot of you guys don't get to see him much because of your TV plan, lack of time...whatever, you don't understand how big he has been for the Giants success. Trust me, if I didn't think he deserved it, I would be unhappy with this. I have gone against the front office on quite a few moves, or lack of moves the past few years. I have no quarrels with that.

Examples? I wanted Curtis Lofton over Kenny Phillips. I don't want to sign Jacobs to a long term deal over $4 million per but rumors are he's getting one soon. I didn't want to extend Chris Snee to a big deal because guards are easy to come by and we had already extended Seubert and Diehl is not a great left tackle.

This contract extension will wow a lot of people but look around the league. If you have your hands on a franchise QB that is more than just capable of winning the Super Bowl, lock him up! Even if it means throwing an extra million per year at him.

M.O.T.H.
10-08-2008, 07:27 PM
Blah Blah-

How soon you guys forget I have consistently ranked Romo and Big Ben ahead of Eli and I picked the Giants to finish 3rd in the division this year with an 8-8 record.

The lack of logical statements from some people is amazing here.

Oh come on...you went over board last week. You beat a crummy team and you acted as though, you just won back to back superbowls. Sure, it's great to be happy after a win but, calling the game "one for the ages" and blah, blah, blah was a little much. If that was one for the ages then I guess all of Dallas' blowouts last year against bad teams are right up there as well. Dont knock people on making logical/illogical statements when last week all of Number 10's logic seemed to escape him for a while. When you have an entire board, including your own fanmates, calling you out on it, you'd think you would get the hint, that it was all just a little much.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:27 PM
I haven't been here long enough to realize how quickly the flock of homers band together to attack one person's opinion in ridiculously illogical manners.

Alright, the homer cop outs are weak. What have I said here about Eli that is illogical?

scottyboy
10-08-2008, 07:28 PM
Alright, the homer cop outs are weak. What have I said here about Eli that is illogical?

you disagreed with the all mighty metsox. everyone who does so is illogical and obviously stupid.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-08-2008, 07:33 PM
You have a point, but I never said it is the only way to evaluate a QB. I just think it is most important. Look, do you want Eli has your fantasy QB? Of course not. He is not a numbers guy. But over the years I have noticed that because a lot of you guys don't get to see him much because of your TV plan, lack of time...whatever, you don't understand how big he has been for the Giants success. Trust me, if I didn't think he deserved it, I would be unhappy with this. I have gone against the front office on quite a few moves, or lack of moves the past few years. I have no quarrels with that.

Examples? I wanted Curtis Lofton over Kenny Phillips. I don't want to sign Jacobs to a long term deal over $4 million per but rumors are he's getting one soon. I didn't want to extend Chris Snee to a big deal because guards are easy to come by and we had already extended Seubert and Diehl is not a great left tackle.

This contract extension will wow a lot of people but look around the league. If you have your hands on a franchise QB that is more than just capable of winning the Super Bowl, lock him up! Even if it means throwing an extra million per year at him.


BTW, this is probably it for me on the issue, because neither one of us is going to say. I'll just say that I've watched plenty of the Giants. I'm a NJ resident myself. I just don't think that a consistently average-aboveaverage performance but coming up in the "clutch" is equal to a franchise, top 10, huge to the Giants success as you claim. I think that being a very strong defense that gets after the QB, having stout run game, and a good OL is what has been the keys to the success. I think Eli's being overhyped because he's the "face" and QB of it. Does it add to his success? Sure. A top caliber team's cast does. However, I don't judge him based on that. I judge him how he plays.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:36 PM
Oh come on...you went over board last week. You beat a crummy team and you acted as though, you just won back to back superbowls. Sure, it's great to be happy after a win but, calling the game "one for the ages" and blah, blah, blah was a little much. If that was one for the ages then I guess all of Dallas' blowouts last year against bad teams are right up there as well. Dont knock people on making logical/illogical statements when last week all of Number 10's logic seemed to escape him for a while. When you have an entire board, including your own fanmates, calling you out on it, you'd think you would get the hint, that it was all just a little much.

This is the thing though. And I do not say this with any intention of disrespect.

What your opinion of "overboard" is means nothing to me. Seattle is a bad team. Bottom tier? No. They still have a lot of good players on the defensive side of the ball and the Giants were without Eli's so called "safety net". But they scored 44 easy, however they wanted points and I was damn impressed because the depth we have been raving about was on display.

You were and still are for some reason arguing about terminology. That was the best I have seen the Giants play on both sides of the ball, run and pass in a loooong time. That is all I was saying. What you interpret that to mean doesn't phase me because, again no disprespect, I don't care what most of the people that talk football here think or say. Especially some of the guys that were barking and flexing their rep muscles. I know, and most of the more educated people here know, that I have put the Giants down many times. But the flavor of the century here is to trash anyone who says anything good about their team, am I wrong?

illmatic74
10-08-2008, 07:37 PM
Used to be one of the biggest critics of Eli but this year Giants are number 1 in offense DVOA and Eli is 5th in passer rating.

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:38 PM
BTW, this is probably it for me on the issue, because neither one of us is going to say. I'll just say that I've watched plenty of the Giants. I'm a NJ resident myself. I just don't think that a consistently average-aboveaverage performance but coming up in the "clutch" is equal to a franchise, top 10, huge to the Giants success as you claim. I think that being a very strong defense that gets after the QB, having stout run game, and a good OL is what has been the keys to the success. I think Eli's being overhyped because he's the "face" and QB of it. Does it add to his success? Sure. A top caliber team's cast does. However, I don't judge him based on that. I judge him how he plays.

But I know you understand this. Having solid play at QB for a long time is HUGE for a team. Look across the league. The consistent bottom feeders are salivating at the thought of getting a steady presence at QB. Once you find a guy that can do what Eli has done, you have to lock him up. That's why it is the most highly paid position in football.

bantx
10-08-2008, 07:44 PM
100 million for a playoff run to the superbowl and solid games is ridiculous, up till the playoffs last year eli has been a mediocre QB. Being a franchise QB or not 100 million dollars for eli manning is ridiculous

Number 10
10-08-2008, 07:46 PM
100 million for a playoff run to the superbowl and solid games is ridiculous, up till the playoffs last year eli has been a mediocre QB. Being a franchise QB or not 100 million dollars for eli manning is ridiculous

Coming from a member of the I hate Eli Manning club!!! Join it!!!!

scottyboy
10-08-2008, 07:47 PM
100 million for a playoff run to the superbowl and solid games is ridiculous, up till the playoffs last year eli has been a mediocre QB. Being a franchise QB or not 100 million dollars for eli manning is ridiculous

yes, god forbid we lock up a kid who has won over the NY media(laugh all you want, this is no easy task, he is no longer phased by them, it's evident in his demeanor), who has led us to 3 straight playoff births. He's young, got a 10 year deal with 10 per. Is it a **** load of money? of course, but i'm not pissed off about it. If you have a solid QB and have no question marks there, you will always have a chance to compete.

and bantx, you HATE eli, so psssh to you :p

BrownsTown
10-08-2008, 07:47 PM
He's not bad, he's not amazing though. This could be blown out of proportion due to the length, so I'll reserve judgment until I see that. He's definitely worth locking up though.

bantx
10-08-2008, 07:49 PM
Eli hater or not i still wouldnt think different, so pshh to u scotty!

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 10:58 PM
I haven't been here long enough to realize how quickly the flock of homers band together to attack one person's opinion in ridiculously illogical manners.

It's true.

I have no stake in the giants whatsoever. I also agree that this lovefest for Eli is undeserved. 1/2 half of a good season doesn't warrant 10/100.

i would say 5/60, yes. that's all fair. but to give him something that huge i think is a bit presumptuous.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-08-2008, 11:04 PM
He's batting 1.000 because he has had, what, four at bats?

Yes, there are a lot of bad quarterbacks in this league. A crap load of them, actually. But only one crappy one is getting a $100 million contract.

4 at bats? Where did you pull that out of?

NY+Giants=NYG
10-08-2008, 11:06 PM
It's true.

I have no stake in the giants whatsoever. I also agree that this lovefest for Eli is undeserved. 1/2 half of a good season doesn't warrant 10/100.

i would say 5/60, yes. that's all fair. but to give him something that huge i think is a bit presumptuous.

It's very deserved, this city was waiting to see if he would sink or swim. Last season, especially towards the end proved to us he can swim, and so he is getting rewarded accordingly. It doesn't take a rocket science to see the progress he has made.

awfullyquiet
10-08-2008, 11:12 PM
It's very deserved, this city was waiting to see if he would sink or swim. Last season, especially towards the end proved to us he can swim, and so he is getting rewarded accordingly. It doesn't take a rocket science to see the progress he has made.

But what has been done in the league. And pretty much every other league is you don't immediately give them a huge contract as soon as they start performing. Wait it out, give it to him at the off season, it's it anything but a hype machine right now to bring this up? That's what i say.

It's not like he's going to die.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-08-2008, 11:30 PM
But what has been done in the league. And pretty much every other league is you don't immediately give them a huge contract as soon as they start performing. Wait it out, give it to him at the off season, it's it anything but a hype machine right now to bring this up? That's what i say.

It's not like he's going to die.

Reese and Abrams our cap and contract guy are a proactive duo. Mind you we did this with Tuck before the superbowl too, when he started picking it up. We also locked our offensive line down too. Reese and Abrams, especially Reese, uses his scouts to evaluate the progression of our players, and then gets the guys he needs locked down, while waiting for others to prove themselves, ie Jacobs, Ward, and waiting to see more of AP befor giving them an extension.

Not really a hype machine, more like NY media digging. Not to mention once this is ironed out then you can decide the next course of action for the players I mentioned above. Reese has a plan and is simply executing it with Abrams.

MarioPalmer
10-08-2008, 11:36 PM
This is an excellent move, it would make him their guy for the next decade and probably make him a Giant till the day he retires. Way to go Giants, definitly a great move, and he is most definitly worth it.

Now, if the Bengals could only wrap up Carson for the next decade all would be well in the NFL for me, oh, and if the Texans would resign Mario after this year for the next 15 years...lol Then I would be in true NFL bliss....lol

vatech=accdomination
10-09-2008, 08:21 AM
hes going to get that money and revert back to his old ways

Rayray52
10-09-2008, 04:47 PM
Do the giants not realize he has a 75.2 qb rating and a 83-65 td to interception ratio...hardly elite he was also being booed at home as recently as the beginning of last year, with many analysts predicting he'd be out of the leauge within 2 years. This season he played poorly against the redskins while he played much better against the seahawks, bengals and rams which speaks for itself......hardly sounds like a 100 million dollar investment.

scottyboy
10-09-2008, 06:00 PM
Do the giants not realize he has a 75.2 qb rating and a 83-65 td to interception ratio...hardly elite he was also being booed at home as recently as the beginning of last year, with many analysts predicting he'd be out of the leauge within 2 years. This season he played poorly against the redskins while he played much better against the seahawks, bengals and rams which speaks for itself......hardly sounds like a 100 million dollar investment.

do you not realize he's what? 27, made the playoffs 3 straight years, Qb rating is the most over-rated stat in the history or history, won super bowl MVP and has gotten on the good side of the NY media?

and oh noez, he struggled his first full two seasons in the NFL learning the offense with the pressure of NY media and still made the playoffs. my lord.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-09-2008, 06:06 PM
Let's not forget either that Eli won't be signing this deal this week. The Giants are gonna make sure his strong play continues. If he gets this deal, it will probably be in the off-season.

ChezPower4
10-09-2008, 06:38 PM
Let's not forget either that Eli won't be signing this deal this week. The Giants are gonna make sure his strong play continues. If he gets this deal, it will probably be in the off-season.

If he goes deep in to the playoffs i think that it's a lock that he gets this deal. Although I don't agree with him getting that kind of money 100%

Number 10
10-09-2008, 06:48 PM
Let's not forget either that Eli won't be signing this deal this week. The Giants are gonna make sure his strong play continues. If he gets this deal, it will probably be in the off-season.

The Giants want the deal done by the end of the 2008 season. They may however wait another month or two, possibly even until playoff time a la Justin Tuck.

Toneloc498
10-09-2008, 07:50 PM
you do know that Eli has the most...yes I said it, the most 4th quarter/OT comebacks then any QB 4 years into their career. This includes the likes of Montana, Favre, Marino and Elway.

Smokey Joe
10-09-2008, 07:59 PM
When you put it this way, it makes me that much more disgusted. All for playing a game.
Yeah, but this game, along with most other sports, isn't just a game. Not wanting to get into a whole long rant, but to say it is just a game is silly.

yourfavestoner
10-09-2008, 08:15 PM
It's true.

I have no stake in the giants whatsoever. I also agree that this lovefest for Eli is undeserved. 1/2 half of a good season doesn't warrant 10/100.

i would say 5/60, yes. that's all fair. but to give him something that huge i think is a bit presumptuous.

His rookie deal was $60 million.

MetSox17
10-09-2008, 08:19 PM
His rookie deal was $60 million.

So he went from an over-paid rookie to an over-paid vet. Great.

scottyboy
10-09-2008, 09:06 PM
So he went from an over-paid rookie to an over-paid vet. Great.

you should be rejoicing right? Like Eli's terrible and the Giants will go nowhere with him. Every year the cowboys **** on his chest and make him their ***** right? Aren't you doing cartwheels now? the **** franchise that is the New York Giants are going nowhere fast, especially with Eli at the helm.

Toneloc498
10-09-2008, 10:37 PM
Ill take a QB who has brought his team to the playoffs in each of his first three years starting and had one of the most improbable superbowl runs/wins the world has seen in a long time any day.

awfullyquiet
10-10-2008, 12:28 AM
His rookie deal was $60 million.

"The basic contract -- and that's using the term "basic" very loosely, for sure, since there is nothing simple about any portion of the deal -- is worth $45 million. Manning will have an opportunity to earn an additional $9 million in bonuses, raising the potential value of the contract to $54 million."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=1850116

I doubt he hit all of his escalators any of those years except for last year.

His rookie deal was 45 mil, with bonuses up to 54. which is still shy of 55 million, which is 5 million shy of 60 million.

Give him 5/60 which is better than 6/45 he got his rookie year. he's getting a full... 4.5 million dollars more a year... woohoo. which is basically adding another 1/3 to his salary now. or adding 50% to his current salary to his new salary. either way, 12 mil a year is still as much as his brother makes, in the new league spending spree. and he still isn't as good as his brother.

don't homer me on this. no one believes you anyway.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-10-2008, 09:28 AM
Someone posted this on our board.


Player Team Contract

Ben Roethlisberger, 2008 Steelers 8 years, $102M
Carson Palmer, 2005 Bengals 9 years, $118.75M
Michael Vick, 2004 Falcons 10 years, $130M
Daunte Culpepper, 2003 Vikings 10 years, $102M
Donovan McNabb, 2002 Eagles 12 years, $115M
Drew Bledsoe, 2001 Patriots 10 years, $103M
Brett Favre, 2001 Packers 10 years, $101M

awfullyquiet
10-10-2008, 10:50 AM
Here's the breakdown per year for those QB's

Ben makes 12.5 million a year. ish. Palmer makes around that as well. Peyton Still makes more per year at 14.7 a year.

I think that the average person (like myself) doesn't know **** about contracts. Numbers are clearly flexible since we don't know contract escalators. The only thing we do ever know is the guaranteed money, and the maximum.

One of the great reasons that they'd be restructuring his contract IIRC is that his contract DOES escalate to 8.5 mil/yr next year. and putting him under the law would probably reduce their financial burden by him for the next few years.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-10-2008, 11:58 AM
Here's the breakdown per year for those QB's

Ben makes 12.5 million a year. ish. Palmer makes around that as well. Peyton Still makes more per year at 14.7 a year.

I think that the average person (like myself) doesn't know **** about contracts. Numbers are clearly flexible since we don't know contract escalators. The only thing we do ever know is the guaranteed money, and the maximum.

One of the great reasons that they'd be restructuring his contract IIRC is that his contract DOES escalate to 8.5 mil/yr next year. and putting him under the law would probably reduce their financial burden by him for the next few years.


That's why the total # means nothing... I can sign a player for 150 million, but the QB will never ever see that. If he sucks then he will probably get cut later on, and team will take the cap hit. If he is good, and plays very, very well, when he gets older he will probably have to restructure for the best of the team. ANd then from there the capologist does some cap gymnastics to make both parties, the team and player happy.

That's not even going into stuff like Likely to be earned and not likely to be earned performance related bonuses. So basically when you add that stuff up it comes to a very high #, but it;'s up to the player to earn it. And even then, like I said the team can ask to restructure the contract towards the later years.

Or do what we did with Strahan, front load the contract and as he gets older, and money gets lower and lower, which is better for the team, hence Strahan wanting more money, also factoring in his divorce too.

Bruce Banner
10-10-2008, 09:27 PM
Yeah, but this game, along with most other sports, isn't just a game. Not wanting to get into a whole long rant, but to say it is just a game is silly.

Yeah, it's called a business because it's too screwed up to be called a game anymore.

MetSox17
10-14-2008, 09:14 AM
Someone get this man his money!! :rolleyes:

bigbluedefense
10-14-2008, 09:37 AM
i love it, one game and the sky is falling.

while im obviously disappointed with yesterday's result, i think Giant fans have less to worry about right now than other NFC East foes. im hoping for at least a 6-2 midyear record, which is not bad at all.

MetSox17
10-14-2008, 09:42 AM
Who said the sky was falling? Did i say the sky was falling? Maybe for us, but i didn't mention anything about the Giants.

I just want him to sign the contract that'll make him the most expensive quarterback in the league.

bigbluedefense
10-14-2008, 09:46 AM
no, but you obviously want to make sly remarks after one bad game. if he strings a couple of these together, then sure, i'll back off my assessment of him, but until then, i think its pretty stupid to essentially say "i told you so" after one bad game.

MetSox17
10-14-2008, 09:50 AM
no, but you obviously want to make sly remarks after one bad game. if he strings a couple of these together, then sure, i'll back off my assessment of him, but until then, i think its pretty stupid to essentially say "i told you so" after one bad game.

No one is saying i told you so yet. I guarantee you i will though, if he gets exposed like he was last night again. He played against a pretty bad defense and looked horrible. Thing is, he's still making the same mistakes he made as a rookie. Throwing off his back foot, forcing balls into closing windows, staring down WR's. The only difference between yesterday and the season kickoff is that the Browns caught the INT's.

bigbluedefense
10-14-2008, 09:55 AM
No one is saying i told you so yet. I guarantee you i will though, if he gets exposed like he was last night again. He played against a pretty bad defense and looked horrible. Thing is, he's still making the same mistakes he made as a rookie. Throwing off his back foot, forcing balls into closing windows, staring down WR's. The only difference between yesterday and the season kickoff is that the Browns caught the INT's.

actually, they played a great strategy. they pressed our WRs who have a hard time creating separation, and they blitzed at various angles unblocked and brought pressure up the middle where they outmatched us physically. it was a great strategy. that defense had our guys covered most of the game.

and Eli stared down Plax once, the other 2 INTs were just bad throws due to improper footwork.

we just got dominated that game, no excuses (we're not cowboys fans). they won every phase of that game. im not gonna sit here and say we lost the game, they won the game. that team played one hell of a game.

just a quick question, whats your opinion on Tony Romo?

MetSox17
10-14-2008, 10:01 AM
actually, they played a great strategy. they pressed our WRs who have a hard time creating separation, and they blitzed at various angles unblocked and brought pressure up the middle where they outmatched us physically. it was a great strategy. that defense had our guys covered most of the game.

and Eli stared down Plax once, the other 2 INTs were just bad throws due to improper footwork.

we just got dominated that game, no excuses (we're not cowboys fans). they won every phase of that game. im not gonna sit here and say we lost the game, they won the game. that team played one hell of a game.

just a quick question, whats your opinion on Tony Romo?

I realize they won every phase of the game, but this isn't the first time Eli has played this bad this year. Like i said, the biggest difference from yesterdays game and the season opener was the fact that the Browns capitalized off Manning's bad throws.

What does my opinion on Tony Romo have anything to do with this conversation?

P-L
10-14-2008, 10:03 AM
When someone gets hyped up as much as Eli has gotten on this board, you have to expect people to jump on him. Giants fans want to remember the playoffs last year and nothing prior. We're talking about a guy who just last season completed 56% of his passes and threw almost as many INT's as he did TD's. Does a strong performance in the playoffs and an excellent 3 game stretch against teams with a combined record of 2-14 suddenly erase everything he did prior to that?

Eli was called "elite" and "the third best quarterback in the NFL" on this site last week. When someone gets that much hype that many think is undeserved, what do you expect when he lays an egg like he did last night?

bigbluedefense
10-14-2008, 10:15 AM
I realize they won every phase of the game, but this isn't the first time Eli has played this bad this year. Like i said, the biggest difference from yesterdays game and the season opener was the fact that the Browns capitalized off Manning's bad throws.

What does my opinion on Tony Romo have anything to do with this conversation?

Eli has been fine this year up to this game. Eli actually had a good game minus 3 throws. But thats the thing with playing qb, when you make big mistakes, we'll remember the mistakes more than anything else. So yes, he had a bad game, but its his first this year. Im not worried. And don't give me that crap about the Skins game. Almost INTs don't count.

Your opinion about Romo has everything to do with your opinion on Eli. Im just waiting to hear it so i can point out your obvious hypocrisy.

bigbluedefense
10-14-2008, 10:19 AM
When someone gets hyped up as much as Eli has gotten on this board, you have to expect people to jump on him. Giants fans want to remember the playoffs last year and nothing prior. We're talking about a guy who just last season completed 56% of his passes and threw almost as many INT's as he did TD's. Does a strong performance in the playoffs and an excellent 3 game stretch against teams with a combined record of 2-14 suddenly erase everything he did prior to that?

Eli was called "elite" and "the third best quarterback in the NFL" on this site last week. When someone gets that much hype that many think is undeserved, what do you expect when he lays an egg like he did last night?

i understand that. i have no problem with criticism, as long as its well thought out.

MetSox17
10-14-2008, 10:20 AM
Eli has been fine this year up to this game. Eli actually had a good game minus 3 throws. But thats the thing with playing qb, when you make big mistakes, we'll remember the mistakes more than anything else. So yes, he had a bad game, but its his first this year. Im not worried. And don't give me that crap about the Skins game. Almost INTs don't count.

Your opinion about Romo has everything to do with your opinion on Eli. Im just waiting to hear it so i can point out your obvious hypocrisy.

Lol, my obvious hypocrisy? I love how you Giants homers can dish out all the criticism and get all butt hurt when someone does it to you. Not once have i ever said that Romo is either playing good or a great quarterback. He's very good at what he does, and he is what he is. A mistake prone quarterback that has been successful thanks in part to his surrounding cast, offense and his own skill, but by no means is he the best. If you wanna start calling me out on being a homer or a hypocrite, go right ahead, but you're gonna look very foolish once you realize that you're doing it out of anger and not merit.

bigbluedefense
10-14-2008, 10:27 AM
Lol, my obvious hypocrisy? I love how you Giants homers can dish out all the criticism and get all butt hurt when someone does it to you. Not once have i ever said that Romo is either playing good or a great quarterback. He's very good at what he does, and he is what he is. A mistake prone quarterback that has been successful thanks in part to his surrounding cast, offense and his own skill, but by no means is he the best. If you wanna start calling me out on being a homer or a hypocrite, go right ahead, but you're gonna look very foolish once you realize that you're doing it out of anger and not merit.

so by your own assessment of Romo, are you willing to admit then based on what you think he is, he's not worth the 80 mill he was paid?

its not anger. im just proving a point.

MetSox17
10-14-2008, 10:32 AM
so by your own assessment of Romo, are you willing to admit then based on what you think he is, he's not worth the 80 mill he was paid?

its not anger. im just proving a point.

He has taken this team to the playoffs two seasons in a row, and in his first full season as a starter he broke pretty much every Cowboys passing record there was. And this is a franchise that has had Roger Staubach, Danny White and Troy Aikman. Is he worth the 6/67 million dollar deal he got? It's debatable, and a matter of opinion, but i think he does. He has proven that he can show up in the regular season and put up great numbers. He hasn't played bad in his two playoff games either, yet he takes all the blame for it.

bantx
10-14-2008, 10:34 AM
Since im the Eli hater ill do the bashing :] basically everything PL just said is true and i want to add on

Game
1.) WAS 61.1 QB rating 19-35 passing 216 yards 0 TD 1 INT
2.) STL 131.4 QB rating 20-29 passing 260 yards 3 TD 0 INT
3.) CIN 88.2 QB rating 26-43 passing 289 yards 1 TD 0 INT
4.) BYE
5.) SEA 136.6 QB rating 19-25 passing 267 yards 2 TD 0 INT
6.) CLE 57.1 QB rating 18-28 passing 196 yards 1 TD 3 INT


So far this season he has had a decent season not a 100 million dollar contract season, hes played teams with i wouldnt say horrible defense in some cases but for the most part bad defenses. Even playing a pretty bad defense in the Browns who manage to just out play the Giants last night and Eli making some poor throws. Last night we saw the old Eli, the frustrated, bad decision making throws hes made. And like PL has said hes had a mediocre career other than that playoff run and all the hype that yall give him is just ridiculous.

Jvig43
10-14-2008, 11:38 AM
Do even Giants fans want to give 100 mil to Eli? Even with him stepping it up no way does he deserve 100 mil contract.

Turtlepower
10-14-2008, 01:23 PM
Do even Giants fans want to give 100 mil to Eli? Even with him stepping it up no way does he deserve 100 mil contract.

If you sign him to a back-loaded $100 million dollar deal with inflation and general salaries going up, the deal would most likely turn into Eli being slightly above league-average for QBs in the last few years of his deal. People fail to realize that $1 today is not the same as $1 in 5 years.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 01:27 PM
If you sign him to a back-loaded $100 million dollar deal with inflation and general salaries going up, the deal would most likely turn into Eli being slightly above league-average for QBs in the last few years of his deal. People fail to realize that $1 today is not the same as $1 in 5 years.

Then again, it might be even worse for the g-men.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-14-2008, 01:34 PM
Since im the Eli hater ill do the bashing :] basically everything PL just said is true and i want to add on

Game
1.) WAS 61.1 QB rating 19-35 passing 216 yards 0 TD 1 INT
2.) STL 131.4 QB rating 20-29 passing 260 yards 3 TD 0 INT
3.) CIN 88.2 QB rating 26-43 passing 289 yards 1 TD 0 INT
4.) BYE
5.) SEA 136.6 QB rating 19-25 passing 267 yards 2 TD 0 INT
6.) CLE 57.1 QB rating 18-28 passing 196 yards 1 TD 3 INT


So far this season he has had a decent season not a 100 million dollar contract season, hes played teams with i wouldnt say horrible defense in some cases but for the most part bad defenses. Even playing a pretty bad defense in the Browns who manage to just out play the Giants last night and Eli making some poor throws. Last night we saw the old Eli, the frustrated, bad decision making throws hes made. And like PL has said hes had a mediocre career other than that playoff run and all the hype that yall give him is just ridiculous.


Since you're not a fan all you have is stats. Watch him play and get better. Watch the comebacks he brought this team back. He had a bad game. Is that allowed? Or has your hate for him created an agenda to discount him no matter what?

Because of what QBs are getting paid, especially rookie, unproven ones, that's going to be the cost for QBs. Cutler, and perhaps Ryan when his contract expires will get contracts that top that.

See we did something most teams don't do. We didn't sit him and develop him for 3 years. We took him and threw him in the deep end of the pool and told him to swim. Not only that this is his 2nd system! We never had the right OC or Qb coach for Eli. We fixed that by promoting Gilbride, hiring Palmer, and firing Hufangel. Most NFL fans from other teams don;t know know that yet hate on him.

I think it's amusing to see everyone hate on him. The problem with the NFL fan is that they expect results from the get go. Almost in real life where first impressions mean everything. Good forbid it takes couple years to progress. You see, fans don't want any part of that. They want that Adrian Peterson type success. Come into the league and dominate, then we will annoint you as good.

Eli has progressed and while I am no fan of Gilbride, I think he is head and shoulders better than huffy.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 01:36 PM
His best game was against st. louis this year.

Sure, he can do stuff. But, when you look at the statistics of what you're going to be paying him. if his best games are against the weakest opponents...

What gives?

Turtlepower
10-14-2008, 01:37 PM
Then again, it might be even worse for the g-men.

If, god forbid, a new collective bargaining agreement does not come into place in a couple of years, watch for QB salaries to immediately skyrocket. I think people are just looking at one number and not even thinking about how this contract can be structured to never reach it.

bantx
10-14-2008, 01:38 PM
Since you're not a fan all you have is stats. Watch him play and get better. Watch the comebacks he brought this team back. He had a bad game. Is that allowed? Or has your hate for him created an agenda to discount him no matter what?

Because of what QBs are getting paid, especially rookie, unproven ones, that's going to be the cost for QBs. Cutler, and perhaps Ryan when his contract expires will get contracts that top that.

See we did something most teams don't do. We didn't sit him and develop him for 3 years. We took him and threw him in the deep end of the pool and told him to swim. Not only that this is his 2nd system! We never had the right OC or Qb coach for Eli. We fixed that by promoting Gilbride, hiring Palmer, and firing Hufangel. Most NFL fans from other teams don;t know know that yet hate on him.

I think it's amusing to see everyone hate on him. The problem with the NFL fan is that they expect results from the get go. Almost in real life where first impressions mean everything. Good forbid it takes couple years to progress. You see, fans don't want any part of that. They want that Adrian Peterson type success. Come into the league and dominate, then we will annoint you as good.

Eli has progressed and while I am no fan of Gilbride, I think he is head and shoulders better than huffy.

How do u assume that i dont watch any of the games? im from texas i get mostly NFC east games so i watch plenty of giants games.

And we expect from the get go? We expect it because all the hype you giant fans have been giving him lately, you talk as if hes the most elite QB, Top 5 QB in the league i hear. When with his 3 and half seasons and 62 games where hes had nothign but a mediocre season, i dont see where the hype is coming from. You guys are still on the ride that he took yall in the playoffs when i saw it from the defense. And for every arguement people seem to bring up that playoff run.

a playoff run and a decent start to a season i wouldnt call much of a progression. So get off that playoff run to the superbowl and get back to reality.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-14-2008, 01:41 PM
How do u assume that i dont watch any of the games? im from texas i get mostly NFC east games so i watch plenty of giants games

(theres more pressed enter too fast)

I am talking about as we giants fans do. Specifically myself, see our giants mini forum, on this site. Analyse the games and you see it's more detailed than watching it once live. Best way is to tape the game and rewatch it. You see alot more things that way.

CC.SD
10-14-2008, 02:03 PM
Hm, how did I know this thread would heat up after Eli sucks it up in front of everyone?

Seriously, it was one game. The fact is that Eli has developed into a signal caller the Giants organization trusts and loves, so they'll keep him at any cost. They've got what they feel is the answer for the next decade at the most important position in football. With the way contracts have blown up, the numbers don't surprise me. It doesn't matter too much though; if Eli remains a Giant long term, the Giants will be happy.

And just to restore my cred: I would never in a million years trade Rivers for Eli. :D I suspect it goes both ways though.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 02:06 PM
If, god forbid, a new collective bargaining agreement does not come into place in a couple of years, watch for QB salaries to immediately skyrocket. I think people are just looking at one number and not even thinking about how this contract can be structured to never reach it.

Of course i know that it can be structured (i was the one who brought it up earlier), but i'm talking more from a monetary standpoint, sure. inflation is factored at about 5% a year...

what happens if it jumps to 10... even 20% per year? or worse yet. we have to start talking about deflation... oh my!

NY+Giants=NYG
10-14-2008, 02:09 PM
Hm, how did I know this thread would heat up after Eli sucks it up in front of everyone?

Seriously, it was one game. The fact is that Eli has developed into a signal caller the Giants organization trusts and loves, so they'll keep him at any cost. They've got what they feel is the answer for the next decade at the most important position in football. With the way contracts have blown up, the numbers don't surprise me. It doesn't matter too much though; if Eli remains a Giant long term, the Giants will be happy.

And just to restore my cred: I would never in a million years trade Rivers for Eli. :D I suspect it goes both ways though.

I know this would happen too. I signed on this morning and saw this thread bumped, and I smiled to myself. Let's face it, he will always be hated on by people that just don't like the kid. I get it, fine their choice, but he is going to get paid what the market dictates, especially since rookies have such huge contracts. So he will get paid alot more, and playing in the NY market, it might be bumped.

Rbs may be a dime a dozen, but franchise QBs aren't. If we don't pay him he hits the market. Then what? Make Carr our franchise QB? Draft another one? At least you get it. He will get paid what the market dictates, and if these rookie Qbs keep getting bags of money, then that means ALL other QBs who have been in the league and proven something will get alot more.

Not to mention he probably wont ever see that 100 million. Either he will suck, and get cut, or be good, and in which case we make him restucture it. Does anything think Nate Clements will see his total 80 million dollars? Are they going to have him be a cap burden his last so years? No way, they will make him restructure too.

Number 10
10-14-2008, 02:14 PM
I am not getting into the econmics of this potential contract again. You should do yourself a favor and go read back a few pages.

CC.SD
10-14-2008, 02:15 PM
Rbs may be a dime a dozen, but franchise QBs aren't. If we don't pay him he hits the market. Then what? Make Carr our franchise QB? Draft another one? At least you get it. He will get paid what the market dictates, and if these rookie Qbs keep getting bags of money, then that means ALL other QBs who have been in the league and proven something will get alot more.



:D Brought a little tear to my eye. I do ferverently believe it's just getting the players locked up that matters, the way salaries have exploded you just have to accept the numbers.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-14-2008, 02:25 PM
:D Brought a little tear to my eye. I do ferverently believe it's just getting the players locked up that matters, the way salaries have exploded you just have to accept the numbers.

Yup, especially QBs. If it was that easy to draft a QB all 32 teams would have franchise qbs. The money to me is irrelevant, just get the player locked up. We got our offensive line locked up, we locked up Tuck, and now preparing for Eli.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 02:27 PM
Rbs may be a dime a dozen, but franchise QBs aren't. If we don't pay him he hits the market. Then what? Make Carr our franchise QB? Draft another one? At least you get it. He will get paid what the market dictates, and if these rookie Qbs keep getting bags of money, then that means ALL other QBs who have been in the league and proven something will get alot more.

I think where everyone else and eli-supporters are separated is: why now?

What has he done in the past 6 weeks that warrants bringing the contract negotiations forward from the off season to mid-season...

The answer is: Nothing.

This is why it gets continued to be brought up. It's not like all of us are SO AGAINST eli getting whatever money you want to give him. But, what irritates me now is: the NY hype machine brings this up, before even week 8... and that it's not even the offseason yet, or near the end of a season, and we're already talking about resigning him with 2 years left on his contract...

Are the giants really so worried that he's going to win 2 superbowls in a row and end up as a QB priced out of their reach?

Jughead10
10-14-2008, 02:33 PM
I think where everyone else and eli-supporters are separated is: why now?

What has he done in the past 6 weeks that warrants bringing the contract negotiations forward from the off season to mid-season...

The answer is: Nothing.

This is why it gets continued to be brought up. It's not like all of us are SO AGAINST eli getting whatever money you want to give him. But, what irritates me now is: the NY hype machine brings this up, before even week 8... and that it's not even the offseason yet, or near the end of a season, and we're already talking about resigning him with 2 years left on his contract...

Are the giants really so worried that he's going to win 2 superbowls in a row and end up as a QB priced out of their reach?

I think they just want to get it done before next season. They don't want to go into '09 with Eli in his last year on the contract. Why now? They had some more pressing issues in the offseason. Had to get someone like Snee signed long term which they did. I think they want to get it done sometime this year so they can go into the offseason with him signed long term and have a good view of what their cap situation is.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 02:36 PM
I think they just want to get it done before next season. They don't want to go into '09 with Eli in his last year on the contract. Why now? They had some more pressing issues in the offseason. Had to get someone like Snee signed long term which they did. I think they want to get it done sometime this year so they can go into the offseason with him signed long term and have a good view of what their cap situation is.

Next season is 10 months away.

I hear it rounding the bend on the hype train local!

Number 10
10-14-2008, 02:36 PM
I think where everyone else and eli-supporters are separated is: why now?

What has he done in the past 6 weeks that warrants bringing the contract negotiations forward from the off season to mid-season...

The answer is: Nothing.

This is why it gets continued to be brought up. It's not like all of us are SO AGAINST eli getting whatever money you want to give him. But, what irritates me now is: the NY hype machine brings this up, before even week 8... and that it's not even the offseason yet, or near the end of a season, and we're already talking about resigning him with 2 years left on his contract...

Are the giants really so worried that he's going to win 2 superbowls in a row and end up as a QB priced out of their reach?

A - The contract has not been signed, nor has it been offered unless you have some inside information....?

B - IF the contract is offered, it is not based on 6 weeks. Are you serious with that comment?

C - His value could go up before this rookie deal expires, it could go down. Agree? The Giants front office and coaching staff believe he has turned the corner and is fully capable of bringing multiple Super Bowls to New York. Can you blame them? He has yet to miss the postseason in three tries and he has proven to be a clutch QB that can lead a team to a victorious Super Bowl.


Now....please tell me where I am being a homer with those comments since it seems to be the only thing you guys have in your arsenal when arguing against a QB you clearly have a distaste for.

Number 10
10-14-2008, 02:40 PM
Next season is 10 months away.

I hear it rounding the bend on the hype train local!

I hope you aren't going for a career on Wall Street, you would be a horrible investor.

Jughead10
10-14-2008, 02:40 PM
Next season is 10 months away.

I hear it rounding the bend on the hype train local!

I really meant before free agency starts in March. Before the next offseason starts.

CC.SD
10-14-2008, 02:44 PM
I hope you aren't going for a career on Wall Street, you would be a horrible investor.

Everyone's a horrible investor these days, that's not a fair criticism!


Except for me, of course. But I ain't saying a word.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 02:53 PM
A - The contract has not been signed, nor has it been offered unless you have some inside information....?

B - IF the contract is offered, it is not based on 6 weeks. Are you serious with that comment?

C - His value could go up before this rookie deal expires, it could go down. Agree? The Giants front office and coaching staff believe he has turned the corner and is fully capable of bringing multiple Super Bowls to New York. Can you blame them? He has yet to miss the postseason in three tries and he has proven to be a clutch QB that can lead a team to a victorious Super Bowl.


Now....please tell me where I am being a homer with those comments since it seems to be the only thing you guys have in your arsenal when arguing against a QB you clearly have a distaste for.


Clearly have a distaste for? Oh my. I don't. I think I was rooting for him well above rivers and ben in the free for all eli > ben > rivers thread around 5 months ago... Besides, I think he's pretty good. He's not as horrible as everyone says, but he's getting to the point where he's average to above average (considering most QB's are below average. see the AFC East...)

In reverse order for you
A - The contract has not been signed, nor has it been offered unless you have some inside information....?


C) His value could go up or down. This is called the price of risk. I'm saying making an offer or even talking offer before the season is over is highly presumptive and even riskier than letting it go till free agency (where he's still signed till 2010. Duh). Consider these scenarios: Manning kicks ass for the next 9 weeks. They give him a contract the week before the playoffs. 10/120. Scenario 2: Manning turns into rex grossman. Performs like absolute piss for 9 weeks. You still offer him the 10/100 deal? No. You wait it out even longer. I'm not saying he will or wont (i know you're privy to inside information that the FO and Staff think he's gold)... but, i think that even talk about this today is presumptive. It doesn't take 4 months to get a deal hammered out.

B) My comment with the past 6 weeks is that his statistics, while being overall good, his best games have come against cupcakes (sorry). He hasn't shown me that he can be a consistent player game in game out. I have to look at his career. And his career thus far has told me that he still hasn't turned the corner. The past six weeks are a slightly improved eli manning. Which, truth be told, is still better than 50% of qb's out there.

A) You're right. The contract hasn't been signed. But then again, it is hyped up like it is (appearing on MULTIPLE RUMOR SITES). If the contract isn't offered, why is it even being discussed, rumored, whatever? Oh i know. It's because there's just some ridiculous hype that doesn't follow logic.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 02:58 PM
I hope you aren't going for a career on Wall Street, you would be a horrible investor.

Why?
Because i'm risk averse?

Maybe it's just that I realize that fighting the cap is the single greatest off season struggle there is. Look at San Francisco over the past 5 years and the strides they have made to keep themselves above water.

Not being privy to every detail of the renegotiation of the CBA, with the debt of a new stadium, the current economy, I error on the side of caution. And if that takes an additional 4 months of planning, so be it. I'd rather make the right decision than be stuck with the next blown up QB for 10/100....

And no, i don't work for wall street anymore. Hell, no one does.

Number 10
10-14-2008, 03:04 PM
Clearly have a distaste for? Oh my. I don't. I think I was rooting for him well above rivers and ben in the free for all eli > ben > rivers thread around 5 months ago... Besides, I think he's pretty good. He's not as horrible as everyone says, but he's getting to the point where he's average to above average (considering most QB's are below average. see the AFC East...)

In reverse order for you
A - The contract has not been signed, nor has it been offered unless you have some inside information....?


C) His value could go up or down. This is called the price of risk. I'm saying making an offer or even talking offer before the season is over is highly presumptive and even riskier than letting it go till free agency (where he's still signed till 2010. Duh). Consider these scenarios: Manning kicks ass for the next 9 weeks. They give him a contract the week before the playoffs. 10/120. Scenario 2: Manning turns into rex grossman. Performs like absolute piss for 9 weeks. You still offer him the 10/100 deal? No. You wait it out even longer. I'm not saying he will or wont (i know you're privy to inside information that the FO and Staff think he's gold)... but, i think that even talk about this today is presumptive. It doesn't take 4 months to get a deal hammered out.

B) My comment with the past 6 weeks is that his statistics, while being overall good, his best games have come against cupcakes (sorry). He hasn't shown me that he can be a consistent player game in game out. I have to look at his career. And his career thus far has told me that he still hasn't turned the corner. The past six weeks are a slightly improved eli manning. Which, truth be told, is still better than 50% of qb's out there.

A) You're right. The contract hasn't been signed. But then again, it is hyped up like it is (appearing on MULTIPLE RUMOR SITES). If the contract isn't offered, why is it even being discussed, rumored, whatever? Oh i know. It's because there's just some ridiculous hype that doesn't follow logic.

So what has changed your mind about Eli when it comes to Ben and Rivers? Last night? Have you seen Ben's new contract? It hurts the cap more than Eli's would.

This is what I mean when you have to consider the market, STAPLE THAT INTO YOUR MIND.

The Giants believe his value will go up based on the surge in size of contracts over the past couple of years, a possible end of the salary cap era, and his play on the field. Thus, waiting until the end of the season is only going to make an enormous contract even bigger.

His career hasn't been on the incline? Are you sure?

Playoffs...

Year 1 - A miserable performance against Carolina, one of the worst playoff performances ever

Year 2 - Another first round loss, but Eli played much better and kept them in the game with a couple of TD passes.

Year 3 - Wins three games on the road against the three NFC Pro Bowl QBs, and then defeated the 18-0 Patriots in the Super Bowl. He played very well in all three games.

If that is not improvement, then what the hell is? Eli has never been and will never be a statistic-based elite QB. If that is what you want to dish out contracts based on, then yes, he does not deserve that money. But that, in my opinion, is not what you base your decision on when it comes to a QB.

Number 10
10-14-2008, 03:11 PM
And by the way....let me get this out there.

There is not ONE way to handle this kind of situation. I don't want to come across that the deal must be signed, sealed, and delivered right now.

My main point in this thread is that Eli has earned that contract if it was signed now. Would I rather wait until the end of the year if I can be guaranteed that demand will not increase? Sure. But if he were to lead them back to another Super Bowl, do you have any idea how much that contract is going to go up?

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 03:18 PM
And by the way....let me get this out there.

There is not ONE way to handle this kind of situation. I don't want to come across that the deal must be signed, sealed, and delivered right now.

My main point in this thread is that Eli has earned that contract if it was signed now. Would I rather wait until the end of the year if I can be guaranteed that demand will not increase? Sure. But if he were to lead them back to another Super Bowl, do you have any idea how much that contract is going to go up?

How much do you think it is going to go up?

This is where i get at. If you have a proven commodity, and enough money to throw at people (which the giants have... only superceded by the cowboys and redskins in that manner)... Suppose he wins the superbowl. Give him another 1.5 million per year over 10 years. Big deal. a 15% increase for another superbowl i think his hardly a concern. How high do you think his contract could go? 10/150? You don't know either.

Which is why i said
Consider these scenarios: Manning kicks ass for the next 9 weeks. They give him a contract the week before the playoffs. 10/120.

Whoopie!

You act like the demand will be so massive even the mighty new york giants couldn't sign him. And if the giants can't sign him. Who would? Really. Who would/could realistically sign eli manning for 10/120? Name me one team. If he wins another super bowl. Signing him should be pretty much automatic anyway. Unless He's injured and david carr ends up taking y'all to the superbowl..

Number 10
10-14-2008, 03:22 PM
How much do you think it is going to go up?

This is where i get at. If you have a proven commodity, and enough money to throw at people (which the giants have... only superceded by the cowboys and redskins in that manner)... Suppose he wins the superbowl. Give him another 1.5 million per year over 10 years. Big deal. a 15% increase for another superbowl i think his hardly a concern. How high do you think his contract could go? 10/150? You don't know either.

Which is why i said


Whoopie!

You act like the demand will be so massive even the mighty new york giants couldn't sign him. And if the giants can't sign him. Who would? Really. Who would/could realistically sign eli manning for 10/120? Name me one team. If he wins another super bowl. Signing him should be pretty much automatic anyway. Unless He's injured and david carr ends up taking y'all to the superbowl..

I have no idea how much it would go up, but the fear of 10/120+ is great.

The Giants have one of the smartest salary cap analysts around who has been sought after by teams across the league as an assistant GM despite his little knowledge of the game. If Eli wins or even brings the Giants to another Super Bowl this season, I'm sure he has a good idea of what the number could end up being.

Therefore he would have a hunch that a deal should get done ASAP with the Giants playing the way they are.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 03:28 PM
So what has changed your mind about Eli when it comes to Ben and Rivers? Last night? Have you seen Ben's new contract? It hurts the cap more than Eli's would.


I think his contract is pretty ugly too. But, Ben, Statistically and Visually has lead that steelers team from day one. Eli has had to earn that. And at this point in his career, I don't think he's light years ahead of Ben that would make you say that.

This is what I mean when you have to consider the market, STAPLE THAT INTO YOUR MIND.

Thanks for being condescending. I'll take that into consideration when i drink more MUSCLE MILK. My main beef, as i've said in pretty much each of my posts is that, i'm not upset that he's getting 10/100. I don't care. I realize that it's about the market average for a QB who's won a SB recently. What I do get upset about is that this is even an issue in the first place with a guy who is inconsistent in the regular season (still), and that they're planning on offering him a large contract, creating the hype now (which is true), and it's just all a weird coincidence that this is even brought up.

The Giants believe his value will go up based on the surge in size of contracts over the past couple of years, a possible end of the salary cap era, and his play on the field. Thus, waiting until the end of the season is only going to make an enormous contract even bigger.

Says who? If you sign him on week 16, is that any different than signing him now? Is the inflation of contracts going to be that outrageous between now and then? My gosh! Get out your checkbooks!

His career hasn't been on the incline? Are you sure?

I never said that. I just said he's been inconsistent. We don't need another 5 pages of giants fans defending his play. He has gotten better. I'm the first to admit it. He's making plays he wouldn't have three years ago. But I still think he's a few years away from being a finished product.

awfullyquiet
10-14-2008, 03:32 PM
I have no idea how much it would go up, but the fear of 10/120+ is great.

The Giants have one of the smartest salary cap analysts around who has been sought after by teams across the league as an assistant GM despite his little knowledge of the game. If Eli wins or even brings the Giants to another Super Bowl this season, I'm sure he has a good idea of what the number could end up being.

Therefore he would have a hunch that a deal should get done ASAP with the Giants playing the way they are.


Where do you get your information? Who says they have the smartest salary cap analysts? Who says 10/120+ is suddenly the worst thing that can happen to the giants. Who would be willing to pay more for eli manning (since you never were able to answer that question)?

Getting a hunch because of the way the giants are playing is ridiculous. Anyone who knows anything (including coughlin) knows that they played 3 cupcake teams in 5 weeks. That amounts to NOTHING.

Number 10
10-14-2008, 03:48 PM
Alright I have to get going-

I will say this though. I was not trying to condescend you at all and if I did, sorry. I actually praise you for having a worthwhile opinion that is capable of responding to posts in your direction. Some kids that posted in this thread are complete jokes that failed to comprehend simple concepts.

That aside I'll finish.

Waiting to week 16 is what I would want to do as I previously stated. But a strong season and one that wins the division will only drive up the price. You may think it is only a couple million per year, I may think more. You say it isn't a big idea, but I challenge you to go to the team owner and tell him a couple million bucks on an annual basis isn't a big deal. This remains to be a penny pinching business and the historically the Maras have not been the biggest advocates of throwing money around like it's nothing.

He deserves the money and if the contract were given to him today, I would have no quarrels. The Giants decision makers in that front office, which, you have to admit, have been flawless under the Reese regime, should have a good idea on the situation. Cupcake teams in the league is an overused word. The Browns were considered cupcake at 8PM last night. Eli and the Giants were not just barely beating these cupcake teams, they were crushing them a la varsity vs. JV. I have said this a million times in this thread....The Giants have a winner at the helm, and you can't put a price on a winner. There are several GMs across the league if not all that would echo that statement.

scottyboy
10-14-2008, 05:05 PM
uhm, just to let people know, this deal has been discussed probably around April/May time frame. The numbers and such weren't leaked until recently. The contract wasn't sparked by him beating up on ****** teams in the regular season, but by him beating teams in the postseason...

ChezPower4
10-14-2008, 06:11 PM
uhm, just to let people know, this deal has been discussed probably around April/May time frame. The numbers and such weren't leaked until recently. The contract wasn't sparked by him beating up on ****** teams in the regular season, but by him beating teams in the postseason...

But what happens this season has to factor in on whether or not he gets that deal.

scottyboy
10-14-2008, 06:20 PM
But what happens this season has to factor in on whether or not he gets that deal.

that deal? correct. But a long term extension? that was decided on by the FO right after the Super Bowl it needed to be done this season, before March

Rayray52
10-14-2008, 09:08 PM
You know who else isnt a statistic based QB who just wins games and gets his team to the playoffs.....Vince Young.....wheres his 100$ million dollar extension??

scottyboy
10-14-2008, 09:14 PM
You know who else isnt a statistic based QB who just wins games and gets his team to the playoffs.....Vince Young.....wheres his 100$ million dollar extension??

I'm sorry, I must've missed the part where Vince Young won a Super Bowl and hasn't had mental/football commitment problems in the past. Dayum, I should stay more current

giantsfan
10-15-2008, 12:12 PM
Kinda glad I missed this thread, simply because it's impossible to talk Eli without people hating him or loving him.

Giants fans love him because he delivers, we've gone to the playoffs for three straight season with him under center, under collins we never had back to back winning seasons. Eli's also clutch and has drastically improved since week 17 last season. So to us getting eli signed long term's more important than the actuall monetary figure he receives. Add on to that that this coming off season Webster and Jacobs are going to be FAs and both have been having great years. So it's important that we lock up eli and know what our cap situation is going to be so we know what we have to lock them up.