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View Full Version : Moreno vs Mccoy?


foozball
10-11-2008, 04:24 PM
Why does Moreno get so much more pub than lesean Mccoy? Is it because of the difference in competition between the SEC and Big East? Moreno has a higher YPC Avg., but I dont think Mccoy gets the recognition he deserves. Who is the better pro prospect and what do you think of each?

Shane P. Hallam
10-11-2008, 04:31 PM
It's due to their teams, conference, and the fact that McCoy is just not quite NFL ready.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-11-2008, 04:52 PM
JBond has it right. I like McCoy a little more, and we have to acknowledge that Pitt's offensive line lost two great players before this season. Moreno is on a more popular team, and therefore he'll get everything that goes with that.

BackwoodsBoy
10-11-2008, 04:57 PM
McCoy runs like a pansie. He's always looking to avoid contact first and for most. He's not looking to get a 1st down, he doesn't look to score, he doesn't look to get the most yards possible. He simply looks to not get hit. He runs like a receiver more than a running back. All speed, not power, no leg drive, no willingness to run between the tackles and no willingness to lower his shoulder. He's the definition of a pretty boy.

Geo
10-11-2008, 05:15 PM
I've mentioned this before, but as much as I like Moreno as a college player, I don't feel the same in terms of him as a pro prospect. My bust radar or a hunch or whatever you want to call it tells me to avoid him if possible, I think there's a good chance he might not measure up physcially and mentally in the pros. Although maybe that depends on the offense in question.

(And perhaps character could be a greater concern for him than Darren McFadden, not that I'm blame him for living it up as BMOC at Georgia.)

I like the following backs more than Moreno:

1. Beanie Wells
2. CJ Spiller
3. LeSean McCoy

SenorGato
10-11-2008, 05:22 PM
JBond has it right. I like McCoy a little more, and we have to acknowledge that Pitt's offensive line lost two great players before this season. Moreno is on a more popular team, and therefore he'll get everything that goes with that.

Word.

They're 1A and 1B right now for me. McCoy is really underrated right now.

foozball
10-11-2008, 05:39 PM
From a measurables standpoint, they're pretty similar

Moreno: 5'11 207lbs
4.45-4.5

Mccoy: 5'11 210lbs
4.45-4.5

However...Lesean Mccoy is a full year younger than Moreno.

kwilk103
10-11-2008, 05:46 PM
From a measurables standpoint, they're pretty similar

Moreno: 5'11 207lbs
4.45-4.5

Mccoy: 5'11 210lbs
4.45-4.5

However...Lesean Mccoy is a full year younger than Moreno.

they were in the same hs class, unless moreno started school late

mccoy seems to hold the ball too far away from his body at times

Bengals78
10-11-2008, 05:51 PM
McCoy dances too much. Moreno has no problem delivering or taking a hit. He is sheer energy and is the heart of his team. Knowshon puts his body on the line for a score or first down...McCoy seems like the type to duck and fall down.

georgiafan
10-11-2008, 06:17 PM
Moreno is really going to be hurt this year by the OL. He has had no holes to run through in the 3 SEC games. Almost all of his yards come on the outside due to the interior OL. It's a wonder he put up over 100 yards today.

Bengals78
10-11-2008, 06:24 PM
Yeah the OLine has been pretty terrible for UGA this year.

Bruce Banner
10-11-2008, 08:01 PM
I agree Geo, CJ Spiller is the truth. Just explosive as hell.

STARHEATHER
10-11-2008, 11:03 PM
neither have any chance. mccoy hasnt broken a tackle in his career. morenos a little tougher, but hes only effective on toss sweeps. both are molasses slow for a tb of their respective size. mccoys got fumblitis and isnt effective unless given space. moreno is the better back. but both are not good nfl backs.

etk
10-11-2008, 11:40 PM
I'll take Spiller and Graig Cooper over both, but Spiller is a Junior so he doesn't really count.

I think Moreno is a better pro prospect. He's the tougher runner and runs well between the tackles. McCoy has good feet and he's elusive but he makes a lot of negative plays and needs to learn to use his body to get upfield instead of dancing. Each back appeals to a different system.

ElectricEye
10-11-2008, 11:43 PM
I like McCoy a bit more than I like Moreno. Very dangerous guy in space. He had a really good game today to go along with a great season. Pitt has NO other options either, making what he's doing all the more impressive.

SenorGato
10-12-2008, 12:07 AM
McCoy's a tougher runner than he's being given credit for here...otherwise he probably wouldn't be as productive as he is caues it's not like anyone's scared of the rest of Pitt's offense.

Pittsburghs_finest
10-12-2008, 12:45 AM
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3668664/10096314

STARHEATHER
10-12-2008, 12:46 AM
when i see him break a tackle ill believe. havent seen it yet.

BackwoodsBoy
10-12-2008, 12:56 AM
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3668664/10096314


Wow! That is all I can say because all this video proves is that he is very athletic and very fast. He instantly looks to bounce runs to the outside whether there is a whole or not. He goes down on first contact I even saw a few where arm tackles brought him down. He'd rather avoid taking a hit than giving a 2nd effort or going after that hard yard. He has no desire, heart or effort to be great. He's just a pretty boy who wants to get by on his flashy moves and nimble feet. His power would reciever an 0.6 on a scale from 1-10. The speed, quickness and intellegence of NFL defenses are going to eat this guy up everytime he tries getting to the outside.

STARHEATHER
10-12-2008, 01:10 AM
that video doesnt prove anything. i havent watched it yet. i bet he doesnt get touched

STARHEATHER
10-12-2008, 01:14 AM
i dont see the great speed etc. i see a dude who gets yards when no one touches him

Paranoidmoonduck
10-12-2008, 01:19 AM
Not getting touched is usually a sign of speed.

Geo
10-12-2008, 01:37 AM
If you're looking at ~210-lb. backs, I wouldn't suggest the major criteria to be breaking tackles. I don't believe that's any sort of recipe for success. You're better off looking at 235-plus backs or thereabouts, if that's your main concern.

The critical thing I would be looking for, that I would be asking, is: can he make the first guy miss?

BackwoodsBoy
10-12-2008, 01:43 AM
If you're looking at ~210-lb. backs, I wouldn't suggest the major criteria to be breaking tackles. I don't believe that's any sort of recipe for success. You're better off looking at 235-plus backs or thereabouts, if that's your main concern.

The critical thing I would be looking for, that I would be asking, is: can he make the first guy miss?

So by your logic you're statement about Moreno is wrong. Knowshon at 207 pounds not only makes the first guy miss, but has the added ability to break tackles. Something McCoy severely lacks. Asking an NFL caliber 210 pound man to break a tackle is far from unreasonable. It is precisely what the best backs in the league do and to be one of those backs you're going to have to break tackles regardless of weight.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-12-2008, 02:06 AM
I'm not sure I completely understand the importance placed on "breaking tackles".

In general, LeSean McCoy makes men miss with more consistency than someone like Chris Wells breaks tackles and looses less speed doing so. I'd say that both fall under the category of avoiding being brought down, but one tends to leave a guy with more space and is less likely to send him to the trainers table.

One can certainly argue that it's harder to to make men miss at the professional level, but then again even if McCoy was running over Big East defenders I wouldn't particularly believe that he'd do the same in the NFL (just as I don't believe that power will be much of an option for Moreno either). McCoy shows speed and has great lateral movement. He may break down his men in open space better than Reggie Bush did at USC, although he doesn't accelerate away quite as well. Is he a bellcow tailback? No. But so little of what the NFL does these days is based around offenses that require that kind of back. And as powerless as McCoy is, he runs inside decently.

Personally, I'm more worried about Moreno at the NFL level than I am about McCoy, because Moreno is going to learn the hard way that he can't run like he has when facing pro defenders. I think McCoy could step into a Reggie Bush-type role and succeed fairly immediately.

SenorGato
10-12-2008, 03:01 PM
Also consider that one of LT's biggest knocks coming out was that he tried to avoid contact and the big hit as much as possible...going out of bounds and trying to kick it outside.

Doesn't mean he couldn't and didn't run inside, but like any RB he wanted to get himself into space where he could move like he can move.

wicket
10-12-2008, 04:22 PM
Just one small thing to consider. McCoy has had some academic issues and I wouldnt like that as a team.

BamaFalcon59
10-12-2008, 04:29 PM
I'll take McCoy. His game translates to the pro level more so than Moreno's.

Sniper
10-12-2008, 04:30 PM
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3668664/10096314

Great song...

STARHEATHER
10-12-2008, 06:51 PM
if they were undersize id expect them to be very fast and have big play ability. neither have it. undersize plodders who rely on gaping holes dont make it much

CashmoneyDrew
10-12-2008, 06:54 PM
if they were undersize id expect them to be very fast and have big play ability. neither have it. undersize plodders who rely on gaping holes dont make it much

Plodders? Seriously? Lendale is a plodder. Find a new word that actually describes their speed. You're over exaggerating their "lack" of speed.

etk
10-13-2008, 11:09 AM
I'll take McCoy. His game translates to the pro level more so than Moreno's.

McCoy dances a lot before he hits the hole, which reminds me a lot of another prospect by the name of Reggie Bush, except slower and less elusive. I think it's the complete opposite for pro translation. My only concern about Moreno is that he runs a lot like Cadillac Williams which is not good for durability, but at least when he's on the field you can expect him to pick up first downs.

Bengals78
10-13-2008, 11:33 AM
I agree 100%

hockey619
10-13-2008, 11:34 AM
Moreno. McCoy plays a lot like a poor mans Bush, but with better inside running. If you watch him run from the wildcat, he didnt avoid contact at all, but ran hard. That said, Moreno runs with more determination and a is competitive as all hell. Moreno's cutting ability is very good and I just like the heart he shows when running, that never say die mentality where he bleeds every inch out of a play that he can. The only negative with that is will it hurt his durability as a pro like caddie.

I know this sounds rediculous, but Moreno's running style, size, and heart look eerily similiar to Walter Payton. Not saying he's gunna be that good, but they have similar styles.

Bengals78
10-13-2008, 01:34 PM
Moreno plays with more heart than most players at his position. Ringer is the only one who I can think of who plays as hard. He can carry a team. He can fire a team up and get the blood flowing. Against Alabama down big he still came out fired up ready to fight and didnt care about the score.

DeathbyStat
10-13-2008, 01:47 PM
Yeah i'm watching videos of both right now and I agree that Mccoy looks like a poor mans version of Reggie Bush and Moreno reminds me of Cadillac.

If Moreno can stay healthy I would go with him...But do either of these descptions really bode for their nfl futures and is either really worth a number one draft pick?

Plus I'm still not sold on Chris Wells so who else is really out there...Ringer or Spiller?

I know its hindsite with how well this years rookies have been playing but Last years RB class was must better.

BrabbitMcRabbit
10-13-2008, 05:15 PM
if they were undersize id expect them to be very fast and have big play ability. neither have it. undersize plodders who rely on gaping holes dont make it much

McCoy a plodder? Gimme a break. The guy has lightning quick feet.

As for the OP's question, I think I favor McCoy over Moreno. Moreno is kind of a poor man's Marshawn Lynch. I don't think he has enough burst or power to become a top shelf pro running back. McCoy lacks bulk and deep speed, but he has great instincts and cutting skills. I think he can be a solid NFL back.

'cuse-213
10-13-2008, 05:20 PM
McCoy is to lanky.

Geo
10-13-2008, 05:27 PM
Moreno is kind of a poor man's Marshawn Lynch.
Best comparison I've read yet.

Mr. Stiller
10-13-2008, 10:16 PM
if they were undersize id expect them to be very fast and have big play ability. neither have it. undersize plodders who rely on gaping holes dont make it much

Seriously?


Neither team has a great offensive line (Though I'd give Georgia the benefit of the doubt because Stacy Searles is an amazing OL coach.)

Both have a young OL Losing their 2 key Anchors in last years draft.

The difference is.... Georgia actually has a Decent QB in Matthew Stafford. Pitt has No QB, No decent WR's (Kinder is still returning to form, Baldwin is developing and Oderick is overrated)..

And add to that, they're coached by Dave Wannstadt and Matt Cavanaugh... I mean, how much of a handicap on offense does McCoy actually have to make up.


Would you say that LT is the best RB in the league? He had a mere 10lbs on McCoy and ran a 4.46, by your estimation he should be mediocre no?

Kevin Faulk, one of the best 3rd down RB's in the league ran a 4.57 at 5'8 205lbs

Thomas Jones ran a 4.45 at 215lbs.

Brian Westbrook ran a 4.57 at 200lbs

Caddillac Williams ran a 4.47 at 215lbs

Frank Gore ran a 4.55 at 210lbs..

Should I keep going or have you learned something?

Paranoidmoonduck
10-13-2008, 11:44 PM
Best comparison I've read yet.

Except that Moreno pushing more than 210 looks like it's going to hamper his mobility, while Lynch came into college at Moreno's current weight and left pushing 225 while still being one of the best pass catching threats out of the backfield in the country. Physically they aren't very similar and running style is quite a bit different.

The Cadillac Williams comparison has been around forever, but Moreno really does look like him when he runs inside. Certainly, that carries a negative stigma, but I should urge not to jump to conclusions based on comparisons, because no two player are ever going to be exactly similar nor will their situation in the pros. If we're looking for a positive comparison, how about Frank Gore? A guy who didn't come into the league very large but runs way bigger than he is with great inside vision would fit the bill nicely.

ElectricEye
10-14-2008, 12:45 AM
McCoy is a bit more down to business than Bush was. He defiantly seeks the open field a bit too much, but he's more than capable of carrying the ball 20+ times in a game. He's nowhere near as explosive as Bush was either, obviously. He's tougher than Bush was as well.

Moreno looks exactly like Caddy did back in the day, but it wouldn't surprise me if he held up a bit better.

Mr. Stiller
10-14-2008, 12:50 AM
McCoy is a bit more down to business than Bush was. He defiantly seeks the open field a bit too much, but he's more than capable of carrying the ball 20+ times in a game. He's nowhere near as explosive as Bush was either, obviously. He's tougher than Bush was as well.

Moreno looks exactly like Caddy did back in the day, but it wouldn't surprise me if he held up a bit better.

Bush wasn't carrying his entire team either..

Bush didn't have to run inside (Lendale White) and they had a great OL and Capable WR Corps as well as one of the better College QB's to allow him not to have to run to the inside.



I don't Think McCoy is incapable of running between the Tackles as some act.

I think LeSean McCoy reminds me of Brian Westbrook.

SenorGato
10-14-2008, 11:22 PM
McCoy's running style reminds me of Tomlinson. Not that he's destined to be the next Tomlinson...they've just got similar style...he just needs to add weight...I want to see him weigh in at least at 210-215 range...I think he can hold 220 in the future.

ElectricEye
10-14-2008, 11:25 PM
I think he can get 210 easily. 215 wouldn't be hard either. 220+ without a loss of speed is even possible after a year or so in the NFL.

Physically, he reminds me a bit of Clinton Portis. Different running styles though.

Pokeys
10-18-2008, 04:50 PM
McCoy is a much better pro prospect than Moreno in my opinion. McCoy is always moving and his feet are very quick.

Babylon
10-18-2008, 04:56 PM
McCoy is a much better pro prospect than Moreno in my opinion. McCoy is always moving and his feet are very quick.

Moreno had a big game today against a pretty good team, keep in mind the Georgia O-line isnt exactly good.

jnew76
10-18-2008, 10:30 PM
Moreno - What I like the most about Moreno is his balance. He can get really skinny in the hole and shows a lot of burst out of it. Does not have breakaway speed, but can get to top speed out of the hole with ease. Usually can make the 2nd level miss and turn an 8 yard gain into a 30 yarder. He does not take a lot of direct hits because of his great balance and slashing style. Moreno is not an elite prospect at the RB position like a McFadden or Peterson, but I think he will be productive in the NFL. I have him with an early 2nd round grade right now if he declares. Does not "break" tackles consistently, but he can sure run through arm tackles. Has a powerful stiff are that he uses pretty effectively as well.

McCoy - My favorite thing about McCoy is that he can make people look silly in the open field. He has the best feet of any eligible back in the draft IMO. Can cut on a dime and break ankles. Of course, it is those feet that often cause him problems in the backfield because of his tendency to dance. Needs to improve on the utilization of his blocking and setting up defenders with patience. Often gives up on a play before it fully develops and free-lances to try and make plays on his own outside the play design. McCoy has good balance and pad level, but struggles to break free of defenders once they get their hands on him. Luckily for him, he often makes them miss completely. I have a similar grade (early 2nd) on McCoy that I have on Moreno as far as round.

I think McCoy has slightly more natural ability than Knowshon, but Moreno is more advanced and productive as a runner, IMO. I give the slight nod to Moreno right now in my rankings, but I believe that McCoy has slightly more upside.

jnew76
10-18-2008, 10:45 PM
Plus I'm still not sold on Chris Wells so who else is really out there...Ringer or Spiller?

I think that the best RB not you have not named is Bernard Scott of Abilene Christian - SR - 5'11" - 200lbs - really good patience and vision with excellent speed. I think he is the best receiver out of the backfield in the draft. Can catch screens and take them the distance. But he can also catch the ball down the field. Explosive through the hole. Runs right with Mareno and McCoy as far as speed is concerned (4.4-4.5) He knows how to set up blocks and cuts on a dime. Makes defenders miss in the open field, but can get the tough yards when he needs to. Obviously one of my favorite prospects.

hockey619
12-14-2008, 10:41 AM
So, the season has come to a close and weve gotten to see another year of these two players.

What do you all think now?

I was a huge Moreno guy, and think he runs with great heart, but McCoy has looked really good to me this year. I love guys who show that kind of toughness like Moreno, but McCoy has shown versatility and proven to be tougher than some were crediting him with before.

I think McCoy may have moved ahead of Moreno this season. Was just very impressed by him, he looked so fluid and natural.

Halsey
12-14-2008, 11:11 AM
I don't see any reason why they can't both be productive RB's in the NFL. Put them on an offense with good blockers and a passing offense to keep defenses from stacking the box and they will be fine. I don't see either of them as special in terms of pro prospects. They both seem kinda good at everything, but not great at anything. The only RB that looks special on parer to me is Wells, but he has durability questions. I'm not big on drafting RB's with top 15 picks and I wouldn't do it with anyone I see in this class except maybe Wells. I'm a UGA fan, but if my team needed a RB I would ask why take Moreno or McCoy when there are bound to be good RB's available later. RB is about the easiest position to find talent after the first round IMO.