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BackwoodsBoy
10-12-2008, 12:57 PM
Michael Oher
Eugene Monroe
Jason Smith
Jamon Meredith
Phil Loadholt
Alex Boone
Xavier Fulton

Andre Smith
Ciron Black

Who is the best player, Who is the best in Pass Pro, Who's the best run blocker, Who has the highest upside, Who is the most NFL ready, Who is better suited for LT and Who is better suited for RT?

Its hard to scout Offensive Tackles but I really like Jason Smith, Andre Smith and Xavier Fulton. I believe Jamon Meredith is playing guard now...at least I could have sworn I saw him at guard so any confirmation would be appreciated. I think Eugene Monroe, Phil Loadholt and Alex Boone have been dissapointing to say the least and Ciron Black has been impressive looking and then I get the wtf impression some times. He really needs to say his senior year I believe.

Discuss...

Matthew Jones
10-12-2008, 01:03 PM
Who is the best player? - Andre Smith
Who is the best in pass? - Eugene Monroe
Who's the best in run? - Andre Smith
Who has the highest upside? - Michael Oher
Who is the most NFL ready? - Eugene Monroe
Who is better suited for LT? - All but Meredith, Boone, Loadholt, Fulton

Turtlepower
10-12-2008, 01:04 PM
I like this.

Who is the best player? - Eugene Monroe
Who is the best in pass? - Eugene Monroe
Who's the best in run? - Andre Smith
Who has the highest upside? - Michael Oher
Who is the most NFL ready? - Eugene Monroe
Who is best RT? - Phil Loadholt

Cigaro
10-12-2008, 01:12 PM
Who is the best player? Andre Smith
Who is the best in Pass Pro? Jason Smith
Who's the best run blocker? Andre Smith
Who has the highest upside? Andre Smith
Who is the most NFL ready? Andre Smith
Who is best suited for LT? Jason Smith
Who is best suited for RT? Ciron Black

Meredith is a guard. He's been that way since week four.

Malaka
10-12-2008, 01:15 PM
Mine would go

Who is the best player? Eugene Monroe
Who is the best in Pass? Eugene Monroe
Who is the best in the Run? Andre Smith
Who has the most upside? Michael Oher
Who is the most NFL ready? Eugene Monroe
Who is best suited for LT? Eugene Monroe
Who is best suited for RT? Andre Smith

TACKLE
10-12-2008, 01:16 PM
Who is the best player? Andre Smith
Who is the best in Pass Pro? Eugene Monroe
Who's the best run blocker? Andre Smith
Who has the highest upside? Michael Oher
Who is the most NFL ready? Michael Oher
Who is best suited for LT? Eugene Monroe
Who is best suited for RT? Andre Smith

BackwoodsBoy
10-12-2008, 01:31 PM
Thanks for the Jamon Meredith confirmation. Any reason he moved? I thought he was playing well at tackle? Was it do to poor play or just getting the best 5 on the field for South Carolina? Any chance he can play RT in the NFL or has he fallen into strickly guard status?

No one seems to like Xavier Fulton? I personally think he's pretty impressive especially considering this is only his 2nd year playing on offense. He's raw with talent and will get better.

Phil Loadholt makes me sick watching his heavy footed lard behind trying to get out of his stance. I've seen him abused too many times to think he'd even be worth a 4th rounder at this point. Remember he was destroyed by and undrafted free agent on the big stage last Janurary?

SuperKevin
10-12-2008, 02:16 PM
Thanks for the Jamon Meredith confirmation. Any reason he moved? I thought he was playing well at tackle? Was it do to poor play or just getting the best 5 on the field for South Carolina? Any chance he can play RT in the NFL or has he fallen into strickly guard status?

No one seems to like Xavier Fulton? I personally think he's pretty impressive especially considering this is only his 2nd year playing on offense. He's raw with talent and will get better.

Phil Loadholt makes me sick watching his heavy footed lard behind trying to get out of his stance. I've seen him abused too many times to think he'd even be worth a 4th rounder at this point. Remember he was destroyed by and undrafted free agent on the big stage last Janurary?

Meredith was moved in order to get the best 5 guys on the field for USC. I think his footwork was also a little slow

doingthisinsteadofwork
10-12-2008, 02:32 PM
I like Ciron Black at LT the best myself.
Loadholt shouldn't even be in the conversation.

Turtlepower
10-12-2008, 02:47 PM
I like Ciron Black at LT the best myself.
Loadholt shouldn't even be in the conversation.

Loadholt could be a top-5 RT in the league. His size and power would be amazing on the right.

BackwoodsBoy
10-12-2008, 03:17 PM
Loadholt could be a top-5 RT in the league. His size and power would be amazing on the right.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions in football. Just because you have great size and power doesn't mean you'll be good on the right side. And just because you're a great run blocker doesn't mean you'll be good on the right side. Both left and right tackles should be able to pass protect equally as well. It is another misconception that a you don't "waste" a Top draft choice on a RT. Two bookend stud offensive tackles drafted in the first round would without a doubt help your team more than two bookend first round wide recievers. You have to protect you're QB before those recievers can ever be effective. Everyone gets too caught up in athletes. Just because you're fast and athletic doesn't mean you're more important than the big uglies because without them no one wins.

Turtlepower
10-12-2008, 03:20 PM
This is one of the biggest misconceptions in football. Just because you have great size and power doesn't mean you'll be good on the right side. And just because you're a great run blocker doesn't mean you'll be good on the right side. Both left and right tackles should be able to pass protect equally as well. It is another misconception that a you don't "waste" a Top draft choice on a RT. Two bookend stud offensive tackles drafted in the first round would without a doubt help your team more than two bookend first round wide recievers. You have to protect you're QB before those recievers can ever be effective. Everyone gets too caught up in athletes. Just because you're fast and athletic doesn't mean you're more important than the big uglies because without them no one wins.

I agree with you, but my biggest knock on Loadholt is that he can't pick-up the speedy DEs that he'll face playing the LT position in the NFL. I think he would do great against the power rushers he would see more often on the right-side.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-12-2008, 03:22 PM
I think Loadholt is going to have to move inside, honestly. There are plenty of left ends in the NFL who would be quick enough to take advantage of how heavy footed he is.

BackwoodsBoy
10-12-2008, 03:28 PM
I agree with you, but my biggest knock on Loadholt is that he can't pick-up the speedy DEs that he'll face playing the LT position in the NFL. I think he would do great against the power rushers he would see more often on the right-side.

Still isn't going to make him a good RT. Remember the defense has the advantage of being able to create mismatches. The offensive line doesn't get to move around pre snap. DeMarcus Ware can walk from over the LT to over the RT anytime he wants and that is why it would be valuable to have great pass blockers on both sides.

I don't think Loadholt or Alex Boone have much of a future as tackles in the NFL. I only put them there because I wanted to know more about mid round guys too. I think we need a RT but we won't spend a first rounder on one because we have other pressing needs right now. I was looking at Round 2-4 guys as well. I think Xavier Fulton is one of the most underrated prospects right now.

Iamcanadian
10-12-2008, 03:43 PM
This is one of the biggest misconceptions in football. Just because you have great size and power doesn't mean you'll be good on the right side. And just because you're a great run blocker doesn't mean you'll be good on the right side. Both left and right tackles should be able to pass protect equally as well. It is another misconception that a you don't "waste" a Top draft choice on a RT. Two bookend stud offensive tackles drafted in the first round would without a doubt help your team more than two bookend first round wide recievers. You have to protect you're QB before those recievers can ever be effective. Everyone gets too caught up in athletes. Just because you're fast and athletic doesn't mean you're more important than the big uglies because without them no one wins.

I couldn't disagree more. Almost all the great pass rushers in the NFL play RDE and have to match up with a LT when they play. Their job is to protect the QB's blind side. Most teams run to their right side to take advantage of a strong run blocker playing RT. He is not equally as good at pass blocking as his LT since he is asked to face far less talented DLE's.
I don't know where you get the idea that teams will draft a RT high unless their QB is a southpaw. Teams are looking for stud LT's with high picks and will usually attempt to fill the right side with later picks. While being a great run blocker and playing on the right side doesn't necessarily guarantee success as they still have to be at least decent as a pass blocker, or they will be moved inside.
WR is not a primary position on a football team so a LT of equal or even close to equal talent will always get drafted ahead of a WR. However a stud impact WR will almost always be drafted ahead of a RT prospect. A lot of guys drafted as potential LT's end up at RT because they simply weren't good enough to stay on the left side, but they were drafted high to play LT otherwise teams would have passed on them if they thought they really weren't good enough to play LT.
Loadholt will be drafted to play RT and that places him in the borderline 1st round category. If he continues to struggle as a pass blocker, he'll be moved to OG. Nobody will be shocked if Loadholt gets drafted in round 2 or even 3 with all the questions about his pass blocking abilities.

BackwoodsBoy
10-12-2008, 04:02 PM
I'm not talking about Loadholt specifically. He is garbage. I already said he's a 4th rounder with the way he's playing. You're logic is flawed. The defense has the advantage, they can create the mismatches when it comes to the DLine vs. the Oline. Like I said the defense can line up their best pass rusher anywhere they want. Why line up Jared Allen across from Walter Jones if you know the lack of talent on the other side will never hang with Allen? Help the RT with a TE or back? Sure go ahead it still makes it easier on my defense because that takes away one more option in the passing game.

LT Anthony Munoz/RT Art Shell >> WR Jerry Rice/WR Randy Moss any Sunday buddy. Why? because without Shell and Munoz keeping you're QB alive then Rice and Moss will never have an impact on the game.

SuperKevin
10-12-2008, 04:03 PM
I think Loadholt is going to have to move inside, honestly. There are plenty of left ends in the NFL who would be quick enough to take advantage of how heavy footed he is.

You don't really see a lot of 6'8" guys on the interior OL. It makes it hard for QBs to see the short passes over the middle.

DeathbyStat
10-12-2008, 05:53 PM
Best-Andre Smith

Paranoidmoonduck
10-12-2008, 06:15 PM
You don't really see a lot of 6'8" guys on the interior OL. It makes it hard for QBs to see the short passes over the middle.

You don't see it a lot, but you also see teams rather put a guy there than not use him at all. Herman Johnson will be an inside player in the NFL, as will King Dunlap, both guys who are pushing 6-9.

eaglesalltheway
10-12-2008, 08:29 PM
You don't see it a lot, but you also see teams rather put a guy there than not use him at all. Herman Johnson will be an inside player in the NFL, as will King Dunlap, both guys who are pushing 6-9.

King Dunlap is with the Eagles on IR. He has shown a ton of upside as a potential LT. I think he has a future there at least as our backup. He is only on IR because well, that is just what Andy Reid does with Rookies. And he may be even taller than 6'9. The man is a beast.

Saints-Tigers
10-12-2008, 08:49 PM
I noticed for the most part, people have Eugene Monroe as the top pass blocker, and Andre Smith as the best run blocker, but have Michael Oher as the highest potential. Does that just mean his physical skills are THAT much better, or is he second as a pass blocker to Monroe, and second to Smith as a run blocker... or is it a combo of both?

God I love this OL class.

SuperKevin
10-12-2008, 09:35 PM
My personal favorite OT in this draft is Andrew Gardner out of Georgia Tech. 4 year starter at LT for the Yellow Jackets who may be the best ZBS LT in the draft. He'll be a steal for whoever drafts him in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Iamcanadian
10-12-2008, 09:54 PM
I'm not talking about Loadholt specifically. He is garbage. I already said he's a 4th rounder with the way he's playing. You're logic is flawed. The defense has the advantage, they can create the mismatches when it comes to the DLine vs. the Oline. Like I said the defense can line up their best pass rusher anywhere they want. Why line up Jared Allen across from Walter Jones if you know the lack of talent on the other side will never hang with Allen? Help the RT with a TE or back? Sure go ahead it still makes it easier on my defense because that takes away one more option in the passing game.

LT Anthony Munoz/RT Art Shell >> WR Jerry Rice/WR Randy Moss any Sunday buddy. Why? because without Shell and Munoz keeping you're QB alive then Rice and Moss will never have an impact on the game.

Here again your simplification is pointless. Many of the best RDE who are excellent pass rushers are rather mediocre run stoppers often giving away 60 to 80 lbs to an OLman. If the team shifts them to play against a RT who is even a better run blocker than most LT's, they will be at a severe disadvantage if the offense calls a running play. It is nowhere shown that a most RDE's can be shifted as you suggest and still be effective. In fact most offenses would be glad to see the Jared Allen's lined up on the wrong side, they'd run the ball all day against him and make him beat them as a run stopper.
Indy started a second round rookie LT last year and their offense didn't miss a beat. The Giants moved their LG to play LT last year, a 5th or 6th round pick who is hardly a Munoz or an Art Shell and besides Rice or Moss didn't have Munoz or Shell playing for them.
Your suggestion that great QB's cannot be effective if they only have an average LT is simply not born out by the facts. Many HOF QB's had to make due with just average pass blockers at LT. They still found a way to be effective.

Mr. Stiller
10-12-2008, 10:48 PM
You don't really see a lot of 6'8" guys on the interior OL. It makes it hard for QBs to see the short passes over the middle.

Phil Loadholt is Max Starks 2.0.

Played LT in college... Doesn't have OT footwork.. has impressible size, but plays like a guy half his size.

Loadholt will be a 3rd or 4th rounder and just like I said about Starks.. Needs to drop some weight, gain back "Good" Weight, work on footwork and get a mean streak.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-13-2008, 01:09 AM
My personal favorite OT in this draft is Andrew Gardner out of Georgia Tech. 4 year starter at LT for the Yellow Jackets who may be the best ZBS LT in the draft. He'll be a steal for whoever drafts him in the 2nd or 3rd round.

He's having a really rough year. Has looked pretty lost on more than one occasion. I liked Gardner coming into this season, but his stock has taken a real hit.

To me, the two most intruiging offensive tackles in this draft are Andre and Jason Smith. Andre because of his rather astounding mobility for his size and his strength and Jason because of his overall athleticism (reminds me of a stronger Ryan Clady almost). Michael Oher is of course a very intruiging player, but I've never been all that into him as a player (not to say the potential doesn't warrant a high pick). Monroe's stock is worth watching, because he's had a rough time this season. He looked decent against USC, but I've heard some disparaging things about his more recent games. He's a tremendous talent, but right now his stock might be sitting more in the middle of the 1st and dropping.

SuperKevin
10-13-2008, 11:44 AM
He's having a really rough year. Has looked pretty lost on more than one occasion. I liked Gardner coming into this season, but his stock has taken a real hit.

.

You don't think he might have looked a little lost this year because now he's suddenly playing in the brand new triple option offense at Tech? Put him back in a regulr offense and he'll do just fine.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-13-2008, 06:35 PM
You don't think he might have looked a little lost this year because now he's suddenly playing in the brand new triple option offense at Tech? Put him back in a regulr offense and he'll do just fine.

It could be, but his pass blocking seems to have taken a step back and he's had trouble with speed rushers despite his main plus supposedly being good mobility and mechanics.

draftguru151
10-13-2008, 07:06 PM
Him basically being in a DL stance definitely hurts him. I think he will drop a bit because the way he looks this year but he still has LT potential.

doingthisinsteadofwork
10-13-2008, 08:15 PM
From what I've seen I think Jason Fox deserves to be in the conversation.