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View Full Version : Is Roddy White in the top tier of WRs?


Number 10
10-13-2008, 08:47 AM
I was hesitant to rave about him after last year because he essentially had a second half run much like Chris Chambers did a couple years ago with the Dolphins.

But now that I have gotten to see him play the past 4 weeks, he can physically match up with the top WRs in the game. He has the ability to seaparate from any CB in the league and his hands are glue downfield. He was considered a raw project when he came into the game and now that he has refined his route running and plan to defeat the press coverage, he is lethal. He is not just a downfield threat either, he is dangerous on 3rd downs when the chains need to be moved.

While he may not be in the Terrell Owens-Randy Moss tier yet, he could be there by season's end. I think he is right behind them ahead of the likes of Edwards, Burress, Johnson, Housh. Where do you rank him?

bigbluedefense
10-13-2008, 08:51 AM
top 10 for sure.

The numbers don't lie, he's doing great with no help. I need to see more games on him though, I don't know him that well.

Number 10
10-13-2008, 08:54 AM
I just watched the Falcons game, he really lacks a glaring weakness. He is one of the most explosive WRs off the line I have seen and he gets separation right off the bat, it's amazing. Downfield he can jump and catch over anybody. Short and intermediate he is tough over the middle and sees the ball into his hands.

He almost plays the game angry, love that out of receivers.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 08:55 AM
Top 10 definitely, although i'd prob take Housh over him at this stage. He's a major reason why Matt Ryan is looking a lot better than most people expected his rookie season.

OzTitan
10-13-2008, 08:58 AM
I haven't seen a whole lot of him, but something about him reminds me of Reggie Wayne.

And yes, it's amazing what a great target can do for a young QB. It should be an exciting pairing.

DiG
10-13-2008, 08:58 AM
my dynasty fantasy league says I have myself a top tier wr for many years. and to think he was the 3rd wr i drafted this year in that league.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-13-2008, 09:04 AM
My WR rankings would go like this:

**Elite**
No particular Order
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
TO
Randy Moss
Brandon Marshall

**Pro Bowl caliber players, but at least one glaring weakness in their game**
Reggie Wayne
Plaxico Burress
Greg Jennings
Chad Johnson
Steve Smith
Braylon Edwards

**Fringe Pro Bowl Players**
Roddy White
Lee Evans
Santana Moss
Dwayne Bowe
T.J. Houshmandzadeh
Calvin Johnson

**Above Average NFL Starters/Productive Vets**
Roy Williams
Hines Ward
Donald Driver
Derrick Mason
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Chris Chambers

**Have Pro Bowl talent, but haven't proven it yet with consistency**
Santonio Holmes
Desean Jackson
Vincent Jackson
Bernard Berrian
Eddie Royal

ATLDirtyBirds
10-13-2008, 09:07 AM
The man is a machine. As you said, he came out raw. He dropped soooo many passes his first two years here, and many Falcons fans wanted him cut. He just exploded his 3rd season though, and ever since then, plays with a ton of confidence. And you are right 10. He's physical, can match up with anyone, gets seperation, YAC, blocks, etc. Anything and everything you want from a wideout. Only negative about him would be that he sometimes reverts back to his old self and can get the dropsies. Otherwise, he's as good as they get.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 09:12 AM
My WR rankings would go like this:

**Elite**
No particular Order
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
TO
Randy Moss
Brandon Marshall

**Pro Bowl caliber players, but at least one glaring weakness in their game**
Reggie Wayne
Plaxico Burress
Greg Jennings
Chad Johnson
Steve Smith
Braylon Edwards

**Fringe Pro Bowl Players**
Roddy White
Lee Evans
Santana Moss
Dwayne Bowe
T.J. Houshmandzadeh
Calvin Johnson

**Above Average NFL Starters/Productive Vets**
Roy Williams
Hines Ward
Donald Driver
Derrick Mason
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Chris Chambers

**Have Pro Bowl talent, but haven't proven it yet with consistency**
Santonio Holmes
Desean Jackson
Vincent Jackson
Bernard Berrian
Eddie Royal

You've just named 30 WRs and left out Marques Colston, who I would have as a pro-bowl caliber player

SeanTaylorRIP
10-13-2008, 09:12 AM
Oh that's right my bad just going off the top of my head. Forgot about Colston since he hasn't played since week one.

bigbluedefense
10-13-2008, 09:14 AM
the # of high caliber WRs that Ghettosermon posted just goes to show you how much of a pass oriented league the game has become.

I still hold onto my belief that WR is the most overrated position in football. You can have a great passing attack without having an elite WR.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-13-2008, 09:18 AM
I think Drew Brees is evidence to that. You could give him a jv football team WR squad and he'd still pass for 300. Of course it always helps to have a game breaking wideout but the thing I notice about guys like TO, Ocho Cinco, Brandon Marshall, Plex and such is that they develop bad tendencies for QB's. Their QB's will make them their first, second, and 3rd read and miss half the field which could be open. It's almost as if guys like Romo and even Cutler yesterday are worried about getting their star wideouts their touches that they don't read the defense properly.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 09:23 AM
This would be my list;

Elite
Larry Fitzgerald
Andre Johnson
T.O
Randy Moss
Steve Smith

Pro-bowl
Anquan Boldin
Brandon Marshall
Greg Jennings
Marques Colston
Reggie Wayne
Lee Evans
Housh
Chad Johnson
Roddy White
Calvin Johnson
Roy Williams

Above average starters
Hines Ward
Braylon Edwards
Plaxico Burress
Santana Moss
Dwayne Bowe
Donald Driver
Tory Holt

Average Starters
Santonio Holmes
Bernard Berrian
Vincent Jackson
Laveraneus Coles
Jerricho Cotchery
Marvin Harrison(age obviously)

Thats as far as I can think.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-13-2008, 09:25 AM
the # of high caliber WRs that Ghettosermon posted just goes to show you how much of a pass oriented league the game has become.

I still hold onto my belief that WR is the most overrated position in football. You can have a great passing attack without having an elite WR.



You still need atleast one good one though. I will never forget the cluster**** of WR's we had when Vick was our QB. They dropped about every pass, and it was so annoying to watch. I'm sure Vick's lack of touch didn't help, but it was still really bad. It was Price, Finneran, White and Jenkins. The first two just weren't all that good, and the last two were playing like busts. Thank god White became what he did. I think he's showing off how nice it is for a QB to have a bigtime target.

LonghornsLegend
10-13-2008, 09:27 AM
I've been saying he's legit for a long time, now that he has a QB he's going to be the type of guy to pull in 90/1300/8 type seasons for a long time...He's definately top 10, watch him play and you can see he's evolved more then just catching deep patterns which is what he used to just be.

The Unseen
10-13-2008, 09:27 AM
the # of high caliber WRs that Ghettosermon posted just goes to show you how much of a pass oriented league the game has become.

I still hold onto my belief that WR is the most overrated position in football. You can have a great passing attack without having an elite WR.

David Garrard passed for 276 yards yesterday with Matt Jones as his leading WR and other elite pass-catchers such as Marcedes Lewis, Dennis Northcutt, Reggie Williams, and MJD. So yes, it can be done. However, I can't help but wonder how much better Garrard would be with an elite WR in the corps.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 09:33 AM
the # of high caliber WRs that Ghettosermon posted just goes to show you how much of a pass oriented league the game has become.

I still hold onto my belief that WR is the most overrated position in football. You can have a great passing attack without having an elite WR.

While that is true it all depends on how a team is setup to win. The Pats before Moss and Welker were able to win Superbowls with average receivers. Drew Brees is on course to breaking passing records for yards and he doesn't have his number1 or 2. However, teams like the Cards or Cowboys would really struggle without Fitz and Boldin, and T.O

P-L
10-13-2008, 09:59 AM
I guess it depends on how big your tiers are. I don't think he's the third best receiver in football, and my first tier is pretty small. So I'd say he's comfortably in the second tier.

TitleTown088
10-13-2008, 10:22 AM
I never thought he was previous to this season, but after watching him tear the Packers and Bears, perhaps.

When can Jennings (the man leading the NFL right now) get his own thread about being Elite? I have a feeling he's going to be Driver all over again Mr. underrated. Which is perfectly fine.


This leads to the question, best "young" wide out? White, Jennings, Marshall, Colston, Bowe, or others?

TitleTown088
10-13-2008, 10:24 AM
**Pro Bowl caliber players, but at least one glaring weakness in their game**
Greg Jennings


What's his weakness? Not criticizing, just curious because I haven't been able to find a " glaring one" yet.

MetSox17
10-13-2008, 10:25 AM
I never thought he was previous to this season, but after watching him tear the Packers and Bears, perhaps.

When can Jennings (the man leading the NFL right now) get his own thread about being Elite? I have a feeling he's going to be Driver all over again Mr. underrated. Which is perfectly fine.


This leads to the question, best "young" wide out? White, Jennings, Marshall, Colston, Bowe, or others?

It's between Roddy White and Brandon Marshall. They're just the most complete WR's out of the ones you mentioned.

Of all of those, i'd take Marshall first, in an instant.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-13-2008, 10:28 AM
I never thought he was previous to this season, but after watching him tear the Packers and Bears, perhaps.

When can Jennings (the man leading the NFL right now) get his own thread about being Elite? I have a feeling he's going to be Driver all over again Mr. underrated. Which is perfectly fine.


This leads to the question, best "young" wide out? White, Jennings, Marshall, Colston, Bowe, or others?

Larry Fitzgerald is the same age or younger than Colston and Jennings and only a year older than Marshall and Bowe. And White is older than all of them.

bigbluedefense
10-13-2008, 10:29 AM
Yeah, if I had my choice of any young WR, Im taking Marshall.

But thats not considering his off field issues. Just his talent.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 10:30 AM
I never thought he was previous to this season, but after watching him tear the Packers and Bears, perhaps.

When can Jennings (the man leading the NFL right now) get his own thread about being Elite? I have a feeling he's going to be Driver all over again Mr. underrated. Which is perfectly fine.


This leads to the question, best "young" wide out? White, Jennings, Marshall, Colston, Bowe, or others?

At the start of the season and after he burned Cromartie I would have said Marshall but Greg Jennings is exciting to watch. I'd say best WR after the catch in the nfl at the moment

awfullyquiet
10-13-2008, 10:31 AM
Maybe it's just me. but i'd give it another year before calling him 'elite'.

Gay Ork Wang
10-13-2008, 10:34 AM
It's between Roddy White and Brandon Marshall. They're just the most complete WR's out of the ones you mentioned.

Of all of those, i'd take Marshall first, in an instant.
I dont know, id prefer Colston somehow

TitleTown088
10-13-2008, 10:38 AM
Larry Fitzgerald is the same age or younger than Colston and Jennings and only a year older than Marshall and Bowe. And White is older than all of them.

Hence, "others"

TitleTown088
10-13-2008, 10:40 AM
It's between Roddy White and Brandon Marshall. They're just the most complete WR's out of the ones you mentioned.

Of all of those, i'd take Marshall first, in an instant.
As I asked before, what's not complete about Jennings? I'm not arguing he's not. but saying" he's not complete" without an example or two is rubbish and rather obtuse.

MetSox17
10-13-2008, 10:46 AM
As I asked before, what's not complete about Jennings? I'm not arguing he's not. but saying" he's not complete" without an example or two is rubbish and rather obtuse.

Funny how you put quotation marks on "he's not complete" as if you were quoting me as saying it. Your post is rubbish, not mine.

Not once did i say he isn't complete, but i would prefer taking Marshall. Their hands and route running are a wash, but i'd take Marshall's size and physicality over Jennings quickness and agility. I guess it's just a matter of opinion.

MetSox17
10-13-2008, 10:47 AM
I dont know, id prefer Colston somehow

I'd take Marshall's edge in the speed, quickness and agility department. Besides, Marshall can truck through DB's as good as anyone not named Boldin.

Gay Ork Wang
10-13-2008, 11:35 AM
I'd take Marshall's edge in the speed, quickness and agility department. Besides, Marshall can truck through DB's as good as anyone not named Boldin.
yea gotcha, i just like that guy. Big Strong, incredible hands and only working for the team

Sportsfan486
10-13-2008, 03:23 PM
As I asked before, what's not complete about Jennings? I'm not arguing he's not. but saying" he's not complete" without an example or two is rubbish and rather obtuse.

Thank you for showing up to defend Jennings as I came across this thread late with that same intention.

Jennings is elite. There's no question about it anymore.

He was good his rookie year. Great last year. Elite this year.

He really has no weakness. He doesn't drop balls. He's about as good of a route runner as they come. He can make the catch anywhere on the field. Either he or Driver takes the cake as best YAC receiver in the league. He's easily the best deep-threat in the league. He's absolutely clutch... the guy has it all.

No, he isn't a huge receiver which is what we've all come to expect from the elite group, but he's got decent size and he is always open and always making big plays.

Stats of Jennings : 1st Season - 632 yrd, 3 TD. 2nd Season - 920 yrd, 12 TD. 3rd Season (6 games) - 653 yrd, 4 TD.

He's currently on pace for 1741 yards and 11 TDs on a Packers team with another legit number one in Driver and an offense that prides itself on spreading the ball.

CC.SD
10-13-2008, 03:31 PM
Look at all the receivers in this thread, and no mention of MALCOLM FLOYD? wtffffff.


Yes I'm kidding, what is wrong with you? :D

I am however very curious as to how Vincent Jackson's season will end up, especially if this Chambers injury lingers.

MetSox17
10-13-2008, 03:38 PM
Look at all the receivers in this thread, and no mention of MALCOLM FLOYD? wtffffff.


Yes I'm kidding, what is wrong with you? :D

I am however very curious as to how Vincent Jackson's season will end up, especially if this Chambers injury lingers.

Vincent Jackson has been one of my favorite young WR's for two years already, and i've been waiting for him to explode. Hope the Chambers injury means more looks to him.

M.O.T.H.
10-13-2008, 03:45 PM
I fully expect Rivers to lean on Jackson a lot more now after yesterday's performance. Those two were exceptional in the playoffs a year ago. It's taken a while but, maybe they're finally on the same page. Could lead to a more prominent role for Jackson in the offense. He is a fantastic talent, guy is going to be a star.

As for Roddy...guy has amazingly quick hands. He has a distinct way of catching the ball, it's like a lightning quick motion. I love it. He has improved by leaps and bounds and is turning into quite the special player. Ryan to White is going to be fun to watch for a long time.

Gay Ork Wang
10-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Why do people throw around the word elite so often?

awfullyquiet
10-13-2008, 03:53 PM
Why do people throw around the word elite so often?

Because Americans have trouble using other more appropriate words.

Gay Ork Wang
10-13-2008, 03:55 PM
Because Americans have trouble using other more appropriate words.
its like elite became the new "great"

BamaFalcon59
10-13-2008, 04:22 PM
Roddy has all of the tools. He has the size, the speed, the power, the athleticism, everything. He can makes catches anywhere on the field. He gets more seperation than just about any receiver.

The only thing he doesn't do amazingly is catch the ball consistently. He can make the great catch, and he doesn't drop a lot of balls, but he does drop more than he should. Kind of like Terrell Owens.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 04:24 PM
I fully expect Rivers to lean on Jackson a lot more now after yesterday's performance. Those two were exceptional in the playoffs a year ago. It's taken a while but, maybe they're finally on the same page. Could lead to a more prominent role for Jackson in the offense. He is a fantastic talent, guy is going to be a star.

What was the deal with Buster Davis named as a starter last night and doing nothing at all. I know it was Malcolm Floyd's type of game as John Madden said a million times but I don't think Davis was on the field once

P-L
10-13-2008, 04:24 PM
Yeah, people use the term "elite" way too liberally. In my opinion there are about 25-35 "elite" players in the NFL and usually no more than two or three per position, but no more than five. I'm Greg Jennings' biggest fan outside of Wisconsin, but he is in no way an elite player. He's an excellent or great player, but I think elite should be used for the best of the best.

scar988
10-13-2008, 04:27 PM
I was hesitant to rave about him after last year because he essentially had a second half run much like Chris Chambers did a couple years ago with the Dolphins.

But now that I have gotten to see him play the past 4 weeks, he can physically match up with the top WRs in the game. He has the ability to seaparate from any CB in the league and his hands are glue downfield. He was considered a raw project when he came into the game and now that he has refined his route running and plan to defeat the press coverage, he is lethal. He is not just a downfield threat either, he is dangerous on 3rd downs when the chains need to be moved.

While he may not be in the Terrell Owens-Randy Moss tier yet, he could be there by season's end. I think he is right behind them ahead of the likes of Edwards, Burress, Johnson, Housh. Where do you rank him?

top 3. He is htat good IMO.

TitleTown088
10-13-2008, 04:28 PM
I'm Greg Jennings' biggest fan outside of Wisconsin, but he is in no way an elite player. He's an excellent or great player, but I think elite should be used for the best of the best.

I never claimed Jennings was " elite" for the record. However, so far this season he is statistically, the best of the best ;)

Roddy white a top three receiver in the NFL? Not too sure about that to say the least.

CC.SD
10-13-2008, 04:32 PM
What was the deal with Buster Davis named as a starter last night and doing nothing at all. I know it was Malcolm Floyd's type of game as John Madden said a million times but I don't think Davis was on the field once

He didn't play a snap. Apparently he is injured again, this time a groin. Buster is really confusing because once in a blue moon he emerges and catches some first downs and looks smooth as hell. But then again, he has 24 career catches in two years so far. If I had to wager a guess I'd say he's on his way towards being the first AJ Smith #1 pick bust since Sammy "The Candyman" Davis.

Then again, with Chambers getting a sprained ankle, maybe he'll get more time. Who knows. As long as Rivers is doing a mad bomber impression it doesn't look like it matters.

SuperKevin
10-13-2008, 04:38 PM
He's improving a lot but he's nowhere near the top 10 or even 15 in my opinion

P-L
10-13-2008, 04:39 PM
I never claimed Jennings was " elite" for the record. However, so far this season he is statistically, the best of the best ;)

Roddy white a top three receiver in the NFL? Not too sure about that to say the least.
Thing is though, and again this is just my opinion, you need to constantly be one of the best at your position. In 2004 Joe Horn and Muhsin Muhammad were statistically the best receivers in football. Would anyone ever say that either of them were elite at any point in their career?

SuperKevin
10-13-2008, 04:40 PM
Thing is though, and again this is just my opinion, you need to constantly be one of the best at your position. In 2004 Joe Horn and Muhsin Muhammad were statistically the best receivers in football. Would anyone ever say that either of them were elite at any point in their career?

Joe Horn is an elite celebrator

TitleTown088
10-13-2008, 04:46 PM
Thing is though, and again this is just my opinion, you need to constantly be one of the best at your position. In 2004 Joe Horn and Muhsin Muhammad were statistically the best receivers in football. Would anyone ever say that either of them were elite at any point in their career?
My wink didn't translate sarcasm well... Just giving you some crap.

CC.SD
10-13-2008, 04:49 PM
Thing is though, and again this is just my opinion, you need to constantly be one of the best at your position. In 2004 Joe Horn and Muhsin Muhammad were statistically the best receivers in football. Would anyone ever say that either of them were elite at any point in their career?

I would have to say the year Moose led the league in everything he performed at an elite level, so yes. I believe you can be elite within the confines of a specific season but not be considered an "elite" player--to suggest otherwise leads to some tricky logical quandraries.

BlindSite
10-13-2008, 04:55 PM
I think Elite receivers are either game changers like Fitgerald, Moss, Smith and Owens that only come along every couple of decades.

Probowl are guys like Jennings, White, Houshmanzadeh, Ocho Cinco, Roy Williams, Andre Johnson, Colston

BamaFalcon59
10-13-2008, 05:22 PM
Elite- Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson
Excellent (can become elite)- Anquan Boldin, Brandon marshall, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Ocho Cinco, etc etc

BlindSite
10-13-2008, 05:26 PM
Elite- Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson
Excellent (can become elite)- Anquan Boldin, Brandon marshall, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Ocho Cinco, etc etc

Andre Johnson can't be elite and Steve Smith not be, Johnson hasn't done anything in his career to be in that class and while I agree with the previous notion that production doesn't have to equal elite status, I expect an elite receiver to have hit 1000 more often than not in your career and he's yet to do that.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 05:48 PM
Elite- Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson
Excellent (can become elite)- Anquan Boldin, Brandon marshall, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Ocho Cinco, etc etc

Chad piled up yards but I don't think he'll ever become elite. He's not close to any of the elite recievers mentioned and he's 30. Unless he goes somewhere and gets his act together he'll never make it.

no love
10-13-2008, 05:48 PM
When can Jennings (the man leading the NFL right now) get his own thread about being Elite? I have a feeling he's going to be Driver all over again Mr. underrated. Which is perfectly fine.

This leads to the question, best "young" wide out? White, Jennings, Marshall, Colston, Bowe, or others?

Jennings is not a sexy pick, but he will eventually get his due. Rogers to Jennings is beginning to look like one of those hook-ups that we will hear for quite a long time. I would go as far to say as he may be one of the top 5 deep threats in the league. The only problem with Jennings is that he does not have elite size, strength and is not an ideal redzone target and most of his TD's are the result of long completions. I will say this, Jennings is one of the most clutch WRs in the league and I would want him over most in a go-to situation. Consider this, 32% of this TD's came on 3rd downs and long (6+ yards to go).

Also to answer your question. Best young wideout, Marshall. On paper they are all similar. But just watching him play, he is just on a whole different level. He seems to be already dominant while the others are still getting good.

LonghornsLegend
10-13-2008, 06:15 PM
Chad piled up yards but I don't think he'll ever become elite. He's not close to any of the elite recievers mentioned and he's 30. Unless he goes somewhere and gets his act together he'll never make it.

I'd love to know how you average 1300 yds, 90 receptions, and 9 TD's over a 6 year span and your not elite, please enlighten me...I'd love to know how much better and consistent you need to be, hate him or love him Chad still runs some of the best routes in the league with elite speed and quickness...Chad reminds me alot of Reggie Wayne in the type of WR he is, I'm not going to take him out of the elite class of WR's because of the crap going on in cincy and his shoulder injury...Even TJ's stats suck this year.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 06:20 PM
I'd love to know how you average 1300 yds, 90 receptions, and 9 TD's over a 6 year span and your not elite, please enlighten me...I'd love to know how much better and consistent you need to be, hate him or love him Chad still runs some of the best routes in the league with elite speed and quickness...Chad reminds me alot of Reggie Wayne in the type of WR he is, I'm not going to take him out of the elite class of WR's because of the crap going on in cincy and his shoulder injury...Even TJ's stats suck this year.

Great QB and a very good number 2 WR. Forced to throw the ball because not a great running game. Now i'm in no means saying he's not very very good but very very good is not quite elite.
As for this year, I know thats not a true reflection of his talent, I just don't think he gets near his previous numbers unless he gets a change of scenery. If Ocho Cinco went to Dalls I would see his yards go up but probably not his TDs

LonghornsLegend
10-13-2008, 06:29 PM
Great QB and a very good number 2 WR. Forced to throw the ball because not a great running game. Now i'm in no means saying he's not very very good but very very good is not quite elite.
As for this year, I know thats not a true reflection of his talent, I just don't think he gets near his previous numbers unless he gets a change of scenery. If Ocho Cinco went to Dalls I would see his yards go up but probably not his TDs


You do realize that over the years Chad has been the one double covered right? It's not like he's been beating the #2 corner and single coverage his whole career, that's about legit as you can get...Having a good QB? Well guess that just makes Reggie Wayne a good WR.

SuperKevin
10-13-2008, 06:31 PM
I'd at least put Lee Evans in that second tier of WRs. He's been one hell of a deep threat over his career. If he had the benefit of having QBs other than Losman and Edwardshe'd have even better numbers.

AntoinCD
10-13-2008, 06:31 PM
You do realize that over the years Chad has been the one double covered right? It's not like he's been beating the #2 corner and single coverage his whole career, that's about legit as you can get...Having a good QB? Well guess that just makes Reggie Wayne a good WR.


Yea I was referring to Housh as the number 2. And I don't count Reggie Wayne as elite either

BBIB
10-13-2008, 06:37 PM
Maybe not this season but to say that Chad Johnson has not been an elite receiver is ridiculous.

And to say it's because of his QB and #2 WR is even more ridiculous.

Is Marvin Harrison not an elite talent all of those years because of Peyton?

Was Jerry Rice not elite because of Terrell Owens across from him and because of Steve Young?

bored of education
10-13-2008, 06:41 PM
I think Reggie Wayne is elite.

Vox Populi
10-13-2008, 06:59 PM
I dunno, there are a LOT of good receivers in the NFL right now...

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Larry Fitzgerald
Lee Evans
Anquan Boldin
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Braylon Edwards
Steve Smith
Marques Colston
Roy Williams
Calvin Johnson
Torry Holt
Greg Jennings
Plaxico Burress
Chad Johnson
T.J. Houshmanzadeh
Hines Ward
Wes Welker
Andre Johnson
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dwayne Bowe
Donald Driver


Theres a LOT of competition among the top receivers in the game right now. Its way too hard to make a complete list of the top receivers in the game with this many talented receivers.

TitleTown088
10-13-2008, 07:03 PM
Elite- Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson
Excellent (can become elite)- Anquan Boldin, Brandon marshall, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Ocho Cinco, etc etc

I realize you said ect and I really feel like I'm beating a dead packer homer horse here, but I just can't get over Jennings not getting any credit from some people. Jennings has outproduced White and Marshall the past two years and is working on another right now. I don't think he's elite( or becoming) or whatever the hell you want to call it, but if those cats are up there you damn well gotta put Jennings in. Not to mention Colston as well.

BamaFalcon59
10-13-2008, 07:05 PM
I dunno, there are a LOT of good receivers in the NFL right now...

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Larry Fitzgerald
Lee Evans
Anquan Boldin
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Braylon Edwards
Steve Smith
Marques Colston
Roy Williams
Calvin Johnson
Torry Holt
Greg Jennings
Plaxico Burress
Chad Johnson
T.J. Houshmanzadeh
Hines Ward
Wes Welker
Andre Johnson
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dwayne Bowe
Donald Driver


Theres a LOT of competition among the top receivers in the game right now. Its way too hard to make a complete list of the top receivers in the game with this many talented receivers.

I bolded the ones who I think are clearly, right now, better than Roddy White. Boldin, White, Marshall, Smith, Colston, Jennings, Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, and Burress are those in the second tier. I put Calvin Johnson in there purely because of talent.

BamaFalcon59
10-13-2008, 07:06 PM
I realize you said ect and I really feel like I'm beating a dead packer homer horse here, but I just can't get over Jennings not getting any credit from some people. Jennings has outproduced White and Marshall the past two years and is working on another right now. I don't think he's elite( or becoming) or whatever the hell you want to call it, but if those cats are up there you damn well gotta put Jennings in. Not to mention Colston as well.

I said etc etc. Check what I said in the post above this. White, Colston, and Jennings are all right in that somewhat big second tier.

SenorGato
10-13-2008, 07:15 PM
I realize you said ect and I really feel like I'm beating a dead packer homer horse here, but I just can't get over Jennings not getting any credit from some people. Jennings has outproduced White and Marshall the past two years and is working on another right now. I don't think he's elite( or becoming) or whatever the hell you want to call it, but if those cats are up there you damn well gotta put Jennings in. Not to mention Colston as well.

I think Jennings is underrated because of size.

I mean...it's really the only difference between him and many others there. He's not as impressive phsyically as someone like AJ or Marshall.

Colston seems to have been forgotten simply because of the ridiculous amount of WR talent thats exploded while he's been hurt. Shiny new toy syndrome...plus Brees' success without him kinda makes losing him a little less obvious.

CC.SD
10-13-2008, 07:24 PM
I don't think Colston is forgotten he just hasn't been a factor this season so far. When he comes back and starts making plays again the chatter will start up again. His game, not to mention his career path, is still extremely impressive.

DraftMichaelHuff
10-13-2008, 07:31 PM
If you want a comparison for Roddy White, a more athletic Hines Ward is the best one i have heard. There is no real player he reminds me of...he is extremely balanced

On top of everything else he is a top 3 blocking WR as well

P-L
10-13-2008, 07:33 PM
I think Owens, Moss, and Fitzgerald are all elite. I'd probably put Reggie Wayne in that group as well. I'd like to include Steve Smith, but I think he needs to finish the season strong to prove he's still elite.

Braylon Edwards looks like an elite receiver sometimes, but he looks like he doesn't deserve to be starting at other times. I can't call him elite, he's too inconsistent. Greg Jennings and Brandon Marshall can get there in a year or two, but they're not there yet.

After those guys is where Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Roddy White, Marques Colston, and T.J. Houshmandzadeh lie in the next tier.

BamaFalcon59
10-13-2008, 08:00 PM
If you want a comparison for Roddy White, a more athletic Hines Ward is the best one i have heard. There is no real player he reminds me of...he is extremely balanced

On top of everything else he is a top 3 blocking WR as well

He reminds me of Terrell Owens. Gets open easily, great athlete, great size, physical, great blocker, drops some easy passes.

d34ng3l021
10-13-2008, 08:09 PM
Elite: Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Larry Fitzgerald.

Tier 2: Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston

Tier 3: Anquan Boldin, Roddy White, Greg Jennings, TJ Housh, others.

I know I am forgetting some people, but as of now, thats how I look at it. You can count on the elite guys to dominate ANY game. You look at their QB's stats and see a couple TDs? You know 1 of them went to one of those guys. Tier 2 will put up solid numbers every single week and some dominant performances. Tier 3 is on the verge of being tier 2. They will put up solid performances with a couple of dominant ones, but sometimes they might just slip off.

As for Roddy White, he is only getting better. I like what you said about him not having any glaring weaknesses and the Terrell Owen connection applies. He is not nearly as physical as him, but he is still very physical. He can catch the deep ball or take a short route deep. He does a great job blocking and the only thing he can do better is to not drop any balls. He is getting there. He is also starting to make some spectacular grabs, which I might have considered a problem for him earlier. Big time players make big time grabs and White was not one of those guys. This year though, he is all over the place.

Also another thing. Last year there was a statistic on WR's against top competition. White was one of the few (if not the best) WRs who was consistent in his performance against all competition. He was good against bad competition and good against good competition. There were some guys who racked up a ton of yards against bad CBs but did average-below average against better CBs. White was not one of them. Maybe I will find that statistic.

GB12
10-13-2008, 08:29 PM
Elite: Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Larry Fitzgerald.

Tier 2: Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston

Tier 3: Anquan Boldin, Roddy White, Greg Jennings, TJ Housh, others
I don't get that. How can people put Brandon Marshall a tier above Jennings. Both are in their third season, both had big years last year, both are complete receivers, but Jennings has been better. You can't even use the lame QB argument because Marshall has Cutler. I don't have a problem if you put them on the same tier, but to put Marshall on whole different level is ridiculous.

The only reasoning seems to be Marshall has the great size, but Jennings can be and has been just as good or better than Marshall without the size.

MetSox17
10-13-2008, 08:34 PM
I don't get that. How can people put Brandon Marshall a tier above Jennings. Both are in their third season, both had big years last year, both are complete receivers, but Jennings has been better. You can't even use the lame QB argument because Marshall has Cutler. I don't have a problem if you put them on the same tier, but to put Marshall on whole different level is ridiculous.

The only reasoning seems to be Marshall has the great size, but Jennings can be and has been just as good or better than Marshall without the size.

Chill out dude, not everyone is infatuated with the Packers like you are. There's plenty of Jennings fans, but don't get mad at people for thinking Marshall is better. It's not that hard of an argument to make.

Edit - The only thing i see wrong there is the Marques Colston pick. He's not a second tier receiver in my book (judging by who else is in those tiers). I'd take Marshall and Boldin in a split second over Colston.

BamaFalcon59
10-13-2008, 08:37 PM
Ditto. Boldin has to be in that second tier.

LonghornsLegend
10-13-2008, 09:01 PM
I think Reggie Wayne is elite.

I do as well, I think some guys rate elite WR's differently, some think you have to run a 4.2, be 6'4 and 210+ lbs, Wayne has shown he is elite and you can't hold having Peyton as a QB against him, just watch the guy play...Precision routes, arguably the best hands in the game, the big catch he made vs Houston was one that elite WR's make point blank, I really don't understand how much better he would have to be to be considered elite.

d34ng3l021
10-13-2008, 09:20 PM
I don't get that. How can people put Brandon Marshall a tier above Jennings. Both are in their third season, both had big years last year, both are complete receivers, but Jennings has been better. You can't even use the lame QB argument because Marshall has Cutler. I don't have a problem if you put them on the same tier, but to put Marshall on whole different level is ridiculous.

The only reasoning seems to be Marshall has the great size, but Jennings can be and has been just as good or better than Marshall without the size.

It would not be a stretch to put Jennings on the same tier, I agree with you. I just happen to be a big fan of Marshall (and Colston. I love Colston). Marshall is the next TO. He runs great routes, makes great catches, and has good speed for a guy his size. And we all know about his YAC ability.

And Boldin could be a tier higher as well, but I have him lower. Maybe its his injury and he has dropped off the radar for a couple weeks, but its not a terrible thing to be on tier 3.

BamaFalcon59
10-13-2008, 09:22 PM
I don't think Marshall is near the big play threat that Terrell Owens is and was, I hear that comparison a lot. Marshall is more of a bigger, slower Boldin IMO.

BlindSite
10-13-2008, 09:31 PM
The biggest game changers at WR today are Owens, Moss, Smith and Marshall imo. Factor in production and you've got Wayne and Burress as my elite receivers.

SenorGato
10-13-2008, 09:57 PM
Elite:

TO
Moss
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Reggie Wayne
Steve Smith
Anquan Boldin

Honestly...I don't give a damn whether a guy is "elite" or not...I just want guys to be "highly productive," "healthy," "hard working," and "extremely physically talented (football or otherwise)." It causes alot of guys to get underrated.

I like Roddy White alot.

Caddy
10-13-2008, 10:01 PM
At the moment I would put Roddy White in the 2nd tier of receivers. I think the first tier is probably 4-8 deep and Roddy fits in nicely after that.

He certainly has improved drastically the last few years and next season I could see him progressing to being one of the top receivers in the NFL. I would however like to see Atlanta get a great #2 receiver because at the moment Roddy White is the only reliable receiver the Falgoons have.

TitleTown088
10-13-2008, 10:22 PM
Marshall is the next TO. He runs great routes, makes great catches, and has good speed for a guy his size. And we all know about his YAC ability.


ANd Jennings the nest Marvin Harrison. ;)

BamaFalcon59
10-13-2008, 10:23 PM
ANd Jennings the nest Marvin Harrison. ;)

Now that is a comparison I can agree with.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 06:44 PM
8 catches 113 yards and 2 TDs against Asante Samuel today....Hall and Aso up next.

bored of education
10-26-2008, 06:45 PM
If he does this all season then YES he might be an elite receiver. :)

BamaFalcon59
10-26-2008, 06:47 PM
Roddy is about to rape the best corner in the NFL.

Watch out.

Sniper
10-26-2008, 06:48 PM
8 catches 113 yards and 2 TDs against Asante Samuel today....Hall and Aso up next.

Didn't do all his damage against Samuel. The first TD was as much Stewart Bradley's and Brian Dawkins' fault as Samuel's.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 06:50 PM
Didn't do all his damage against Samuel. The first TD was as much Stewart Bradley's and Brian Dawkins' fault as Samuel's.



Ok, ok. Sorry.

Roddy White: 8 catches 113 yards. 2 TDs, one against Asante Samuel, and one where he beat triple coverage including Asante Samuel. Better? ;)

Bruce Banner
10-26-2008, 06:52 PM
Man. When something is going well in ATL land.....they won't let you forget.

Dam8610
10-26-2008, 06:53 PM
Roddy has certainly produced like a #1 most of the year for my fantasy team. :)

Sniper
10-26-2008, 06:54 PM
Ok, ok. Sorry.

Roddy White: 8 catches 113 yards. 2 TDs, one against Asante Samuel, and one where he beat triple coverage including Asante Samuel. Better? ;)

Much.

Roddy's been an exceptional #2 WR for me this year.

BamaFalcon59
10-26-2008, 07:12 PM
Roddy, right now, is playing better than any receiver in the league. I'd say since week three he is leading the National Football League in yards and possibly touchdowns. He gets open more easily than any receiver in the league. After the catch he is wonderful.

He has two issues, route running and hands. He gets sloppy with his routes at times and drops some easy passes. Otherwise, he is everything I look for in a number one wide receiver.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 07:13 PM
Much.

Roddy's been an exceptional #2 WR for me this year.



I think this would be a good place to unmask your new signature.

http://www.o2designz.com/forum/uploads/U173-1225066341.png

FloridaSkinzFan
10-26-2008, 07:14 PM
Roddy White is a top 10 reciever

Sniper
10-26-2008, 07:14 PM
I think this would be a good place to unmask your new signature.

http://www.o2designz.com/forum/uploads/U173-1225066341.png

Until when?

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 07:16 PM
Until when?

Since we didn't set anything up, till next Sunday should be fair.

bernbabybern820
10-26-2008, 07:16 PM
Roddy is about to rape the best corner in the NFL.

Watch out.

:) LOL we'll see. Does he line up everywhere on the field? Because Aso usually only plays on his right side of the field.

Plus i don't think Atlanta needs to pass at all to beat us. I can see a 200 yard game for Turner.

Sniper
10-26-2008, 07:16 PM
Be sure to add the ] at the end... and since we didn't set anything up, till next Sunday should be fair.

Okay good. If I had to wait until Roddy disappointed me in fantasy, I'd be rocking this sig for a long time.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 07:18 PM
:) LOL we'll see. Does he line up everywhere on the field? Because Aso usually only plays on his right side of the field.

Plus i don't think Atlanta needs to pass at all to beat us. I can see a 200 yard game for Turner.



It's a common thing to see Roddy in motion. So there isn't a really particular spot for him to line up at. As much as I love him, wouldn't mind seeing Roddy beat our old buddy DeAngelo either.

bigbluedefense
10-26-2008, 07:28 PM
i still haven't had a chance to really sit down and analyze and break this team down yet this season.

So I can't really comment on White as much as I want to. But his stat sheet says he's one of the best in the league.

I really want to sit down and really break Matt Ryan and Roddy White down, but I haven't gotten the chance yet. Does ATL play any MDF or SNF this year?

d34ng3l021
10-26-2008, 07:33 PM
I am pretty sure we are not.

But Roddy's last 5 games: 119, 90, 132, 112, 113. Has a TD in his last 3 games. I like that consistency with a rookie QB.

Sniper
10-26-2008, 07:34 PM
Roddy White is a great example to show that players need time to develop and aren't busts if they start off slowly in their careers.

BlindSite
10-26-2008, 07:35 PM
People need to remember that when referring to guys like Tedd Ginn and Dwayne Jarrett

Sniper
10-26-2008, 07:39 PM
People need to remember that when referring to guys like Tedd Ginn and Dwayne Jarrett

No, Ted Ginn will always suck. One game doesn't change this. He got hawked by a linebacker in open field. You know who doesn't suck? Steve Breaston.

SuperKevin
10-26-2008, 07:41 PM
People need to remember that when referring to guys like Tedd Ginn and Dwayne Jarrett

Dwayne Jarrett will have to actually play though in order for people to refer to him

Sniper
10-26-2008, 07:42 PM
Dwayne Jarrett will have to actually play though in order for people to refer to him

2 catches, 25 yards FTW!

Sniper
10-26-2008, 07:44 PM
Dwayne Jarrett this year: 6 catches, 78 yards.

Championship.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 07:54 PM
i still haven't had a chance to really sit down and analyze and break this team down yet this season.

So I can't really comment on White as much as I want to. But his stat sheet says he's one of the best in the league.

I really want to sit down and really break Matt Ryan and Roddy White down, but I haven't gotten the chance yet. Does ATL play any MDF or SNF this year?


I'm pretty sure we don't. We lost those games when Vick left. :( Otherwise, we were good for 2-4 a season.

scottyboy
10-26-2008, 08:04 PM
guys, guys to be fair. Jarrett was named team MVP...of the practice squad

Flyboy
10-26-2008, 08:06 PM
Roddy White is a great example to show that players need time to develop and aren't busts if they start off slowly in their careers.

Robert Meachem.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 08:12 PM
Roddy White is a great example to show that players need time to develop and aren't busts if they start off slowly in their careers.


I think it varies. For example, Roddy White was raw coming out. That was pretty well known. It took him 2 years of dropping everything thrown at him to bust out.

Sniper
10-26-2008, 08:23 PM
guys, guys to be fair. Jarrett was named team MVP...of the practice squad

Eh, at least he's caring about practice.

scottyboy
10-26-2008, 08:26 PM
Eh, at least he's caring about practice.

practice? practice? prac-practice? you talking about practice? not a game, but practice?

Sniper
10-26-2008, 08:27 PM
practice? practice? prac-practice? you talking about practice? not a game, but practice?

Man how the hell am I supposed to make my team better by practicing?

Pokeys
10-26-2008, 09:47 PM
Anyone who thinks he isn't has been out to lunch. This guy has been absolutely killing it for the Falcons this season, and last season he put up good numbers. This year is a coming out party for him for sure.

Sniper is right... If y'all didn't know that Receivers need about 2-3 years or just some time to develop y'all should know now. I expected good things out of White just never could have imagined him dominating like he is right now.

MJK
10-26-2008, 10:14 PM
People are underrating Boldin here. And Andre... I mean, 4 straight weeks of 130+ receiving yards and he has next to no buzz.

I think it goes:

Moss
Owens
Fitz
___
Andre Johnson
Boldin
Marshall
White
Jennings
___
The rest.

I'm almost definitely forgetting people, because this was just off the top of my head, but Andre and Boldin shouldn't be in "third tiers". If it wasn't for the age difference, I would have a pretty hard time deciding between Boldin, Fitz, and Johnson if I had to pick one. However, I suppose Johnson has had health issues, which is a possible knock on him.

TimD
10-26-2008, 10:21 PM
My WR rankings would go like this:

**Elite**
No particular Order
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
TO
Randy Moss
Brandon Marshall

**Pro Bowl caliber players, but at least one glaring weakness in their game**
Reggie Wayne
Plaxico Burress
Greg Jennings
Chad Johnson
Steve Smith
Braylon Edwards

**Fringe Pro Bowl Players**
Roddy White
Lee Evans
Santana Moss
Dwayne Bowe
T.J. Houshmandzadeh
Calvin Johnson

**Above Average NFL Starters/Productive Vets**
Roy Williams
Hines Ward
Donald Driver
Derrick Mason
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Chris Chambers

**Have Pro Bowl talent, but haven't proven it yet with consistency**
Santonio Holmes
Desean Jackson
Vincent Jackson
Bernard Berrian
Eddie Royal

really no Coles/Cotchery?

Shiver
10-27-2008, 07:18 AM
My WR rankings would go like this:

**Elite**
No particular Order
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
TO
Randy Moss
Brandon Marshall

**Pro Bowl caliber players, but at least one glaring weakness in their game**
Reggie Wayne
Plaxico Burress
Greg Jennings
Chad Johnson
Steve Smith
Braylon Edwards

**Fringe Pro Bowl Players**
Roddy White
Lee Evans
Santana Moss
Dwayne Bowe
T.J. Houshmandzadeh
Calvin Johnson


I don't see what Greg Jennings has done that Roddy White hasn't. And Jennings has had much better supporting cast. If you put Jennings in that second tier, which I do as well, then White deserves to be right there beside him.

It's a common thing to see Roddy in motion. So there isn't a really particular spot for him to line up at. As much as I love him, wouldn't mind seeing Roddy beat our old buddy DeAngelo either.

That would be so sweet. I expect them to pick on him all day long, when not pounding the rock with Michael Turner that is.

All I know is that Matt Ryan and Roddy White will make a deadly combination for years and that makes me so excited. The fact that White has produced with no quarterbacks (last year) and with a rookie (this year) is remarkable. He always showed glimpses of brilliance, but I was not sure he would put it all together. He has it all, he is physical, he is fast, and what was once his weaknesses have now become strengths. He is no longer dropping as many passes and his routes have become crisp.

BBIB
10-27-2008, 02:21 PM
He made huge strides of improvement last year and is doing so again.

Roddy always showed us those flashed of greatness making the spectacular catches but dropping the easy ones. Now he's catching everything.

Kudos to former coach Hue Jackson who helped turn this kid around like he did for TJ Houshmanzedah. It also helps so much we finally have him in a vertical offense where he can stretch the field.

scar988
10-27-2008, 02:39 PM
I think it varies. For example, Roddy White was raw coming out. That was pretty well known. It took him 2 years of dropping everything thrown at him to bust out.

the problem for Roddy White.... lefty throwing. this sounds ridiculous, but hear me out. all through his life he had righty QB's. And finally he has a lefty QB in Vick and can't produce. Doesn't help that Vick owuld rather run than pass either. But then you insert a righty pocket QB and he goes for 1200 yards na 5 TD's. no talent at QB and he does that. Insert Matt Ryan and he is looking at a pace for a 100 catch, 1550 yard, 15 TD season, like we all knew he was capable of. If we had a legit TE, the rest of our offense would explode and allow Ryan and White look that much better.

tjsunstein
10-27-2008, 02:46 PM
None of these lists have Jordyzzzzzzzzzzzzzz? Wow!

I always thought he was overrated but I can safely admit I was completely wrong. I watched the Eagles game yesterday and he dominated. Although he was on the losing team, he did his part.

MetSox17
10-27-2008, 05:18 PM
the problem for Roddy White.... lefty throwing. this sounds ridiculous, but hear me out. all through his life he had righty QB's. And finally he has a lefty QB in Vick and can't produce. Doesn't help that Vick owuld rather run than pass either. But then you insert a righty pocket QB and he goes for 1200 yards na 5 TD's. no talent at QB and he does that. Insert Matt Ryan and he is looking at a pace for a 100 catch, 1550 yard, 15 TD season, like we all knew he was capable of. If we had a legit TE, the rest of our offense would explode and allow Ryan and White look that much better.

Props on the attempt, but no. Just no. What exactly does he have to adjust to from having a left handed quarterback? The only argument you could probably make is the release points, but a WR hardly even looks at the quarterback when he's making his release. By the time you make your break, most of the time, the ball is already in the air. I'll give you that Vick was a very innacurate quarterback, and a lot of his passes were off-mark, but lets not make Roddy the victim here. He had some pretty horrible drops, he ran bad routes at times, and he got rattled too much. He lost the hands of stone he had, and with time he has become a polished WR. That's no surprise. Not everyone is gonna be a Calvin Johnson.

d34ng3l021
10-27-2008, 06:24 PM
The left handed argument makes no sense. The fact that Vick was a terrible passer (not only in accuracy, but no touch, no timing either) might have had to do with it. Its hard for a WR to develop if he cant have that chemistry and timing down with the QB. It didnt help that Roddy dropped so many passes either. Looks like he is finally getting confident in his ability. He has got some real talent all around.

GB12
10-27-2008, 06:34 PM
I don't see what Greg Jennings has done that Roddy White hasn't. And Jennings has had much better supporting cast. If you put Jennings in that second tier, which I do as well, then White deserves to be right there beside him.
I agree that they should be on the same level. Brandon Marshall should be joining them too. I think it's ridiculous that people are putting him in the top level.

scar988
10-27-2008, 06:42 PM
Props on the attempt, but no. Just no. What exactly does he have to adjust to from having a left handed quarterback? The only argument you could probably make is the release points, but a WR hardly even looks at the quarterback when he's making his release. By the time you make your break, most of the time, the ball is already in the air. I'll give you that Vick was a very innacurate quarterback, and a lot of his passes were off-mark, but lets not make Roddy the victim here. He had some pretty horrible drops, he ran bad routes at times, and he got rattled too much. He lost the hands of stone he had, and with time he has become a polished WR. That's no surprise. Not everyone is gonna be a Calvin Johnson.

The left handed argument makes no sense. The fact that Vick was a terrible passer (not only in accuracy, but no touch, no timing either) might have had to do with it. Its hard for a WR to develop if he cant have that chemistry and timing down with the QB. It didnt help that Roddy dropped so many passes either. Looks like he is finally getting confident in his ability. He has got some real talent all around.

you doubt me, but Roddy would run great routes, and get separation the entire time. but just couldn't catch it from midway his 1st through his entire 2nd year. the spin on the ball is completely opposite. Also, Roddy had trouble when they just wouldn't pass the ball. Vick running too much was a big problem because in 2006, he would be open and waiting. and then just give up on the play because Vick would run. a WR's job isn't to block for his QB's broken plays.

BamaFalcon59
10-27-2008, 07:13 PM
I agree that they should be on the same level. Brandon Marshall should be joining them too. I think it's ridiculous that people are putting him in the top level.

Ditto.

He, Brandon Marshall, catches a lot of underneath routes and has talent, but I don't see enough big plays from him.

LonghornsLegend
10-27-2008, 07:21 PM
Roddy never had much of a problem running routes, beating DB's, creating seperation, alot of the things you look for in a WR, he just couldn't catch...Once it clicked everything else was in place, that's why he's never really looked back.


Now he's turned into a complete WR and not just a deep threat, he catches everything thrown his way, it's really a testament to his hard work though because he didn't get lazy and complacent after each season with all the crap that was going on in ATL.

MetSox17
10-27-2008, 11:12 PM
you doubt me, but Roddy would run great routes, and get separation the entire time. but just couldn't catch it from midway his 1st through his entire 2nd year. the spin on the ball is completely opposite. Also, Roddy had trouble when they just wouldn't pass the ball. Vick running too much was a big problem because in 2006, he would be open and waiting. and then just give up on the play because Vick would run. a WR's job isn't to block for his QB's broken plays.

I'm sorry, but i'm calling B.S here. I don't wanna hear any "spin on the ball" junk as justification for his stone hands early in his career. d34ng3lo (damn, that took a while to type) is right, Vick was just always a really bad passer (or should i say thrower?), and that contributed to White being bad, but wasn't the only factor. His left handed-ness had nothing to do with it. As soon as he got some half decent guys throwing him the ball, and he got some new gloves (or whatever it is he did to get better hands), he started putting up some nice numbers. He should be very good for a long time with Matty Ice as his QB.

Bruce Banner
10-27-2008, 11:16 PM
I don't wanna hear any "spin on the ball" junk as justification for his stone hands early in his career.

wow. just wow....

Menardo75
10-27-2008, 11:17 PM
I think after the start to his season he has definitley earned it.

MetSox17
10-27-2008, 11:20 PM
wow. just wow....

Freakin' A, right?

iloxygenil
10-28-2008, 09:29 AM
Freakin' A, right?

There's NO question in the world that it takes time to adjust to a left handed QB, ask any WR, it's different catching a ball that usually spins and cuddles into your hands as the WR vs one that spins away from your body and vice versa depending the side of the field that you are on. This was one of many problems for Roddy. It wasn't the only one he had, his concentration wasn't there, he was always looking to run before the catch, that's the biggest reason imo.

But it wasn't just Roddy, look at how many drops the team had, and Vick really wasn't nearly as bad with accuracy as people said he was, the Falcons had 17% dropped passes, and he was completing 57% I mean c'mon, that's 74% right there, if they cut that number in half, then he's WELL into the 60% mark, and if they cut it into a fourth he's still 61%. So, I don't wanna hear that bull that everyone spits, now when he was off, it sailed bad, because he always wanted to squeeze passes into tight windows, so when it slipped out early it sailed pretty bad, so people always talked about that.

Back to the topic at hand, White is no doubt approaching the elite level in the NFL, he was top 10 last year, and he will be again this year barring injury. He's on pace for 1500+ yards, and he keeps doing it, week in and week out he's beating 'elite' corners who shut down some pretty good WRs. Last 2 games, Chicago's defense, and Philly's defense, Roddy beat them both, how about Green Bay's secondary which made Reggie Wayne and co look pitiful...give that check to Roddy as well. His ability to hit another gear in his routes when he pulls off on a route it's over for a DB, they're 3 yards back. He can get better at selling that curl route, but people are starting to sit on it, watch out for the stop and go to roast someone soon (deangelo, that's a head's up to you, you over eager son of a...)

If/When Roddy takes it to Aso and Hall, his season will be solidified as Pro Bowl, if he goes over 100 yards there's no way he can't be there (but I think Atlanta is going to pound the rock this week) So we'll see how it goes, but look for Roddy in Hawaii, and look for Roddy in your fantasy leagues if you can get him.

d34ng3l021
10-28-2008, 10:30 AM
White is already heading to the Pro Bowl, regardless of his game against Oakland. His last 5 games: 119, 90, 132, 112, 113 with TDs in his last 3 games. He is 3rd in the league (2nd in NFC) in receiving yards and is on pace for about 1550 yards.

And he does a good job of selling the short route and going deep. I hope Hall will bite on one of them.

Chucky
10-28-2008, 10:34 AM
White is already heading to the Pro Bowl, regardless of his game against Oakland. His last 5 games: 119, 90, 132, 112, 113 with TDs in his last 3 games. He is 3rd in the league (2nd in NFC) in receiving yards and is on pace for about 1550 yards.

And he does a good job of selling the short route and going deep. I hope Hall will bite on one of them.

You guys overestimate pro-bowl voters. While he may deserve to go in, it would surprise at all if he did not make it

d34ng3l021
10-28-2008, 10:40 AM
You guys overestimate pro-bowl voters. While he may deserve to go in, it would surprise at all if he did not make it

I may have thought of that last year, but after putting up a 1200 yard season, he is in the top categories for receiving as well. T-2nd Receptions. 2nd Yards. T-2nd TDs (NFC). With the Falcons getting some early buzz combined with his statistics, I expect him to be in Hawaii.

But you are right. Pro Bowl voting can be way off in some positions. It wouldn't surprise me too much if he didn't get in.

BBIB
10-29-2008, 04:52 PM
Props on the attempt, but no. Just no. What exactly does he have to adjust to from having a left handed quarterback? The only argument you could probably make is the release points, but a WR hardly even looks at the quarterback when he's making his release. By the time you make your break, most of the time, the ball is already in the air. I'll give you that Vick was a very innacurate quarterback, and a lot of his passes were off-mark, but lets not make Roddy the victim here. He had some pretty horrible drops, he ran bad routes at times, and he got rattled too much. He lost the hands of stone he had, and with time he has become a polished WR. That's no surprise. Not everyone is gonna be a Calvin Johnson.

The problem is that some people think every aspect of the game of football revolves around the QB position.

Clearly the variables that made the biggest change in Roddy's success were

A)Abandoning the dink and dunk system
B)Hue Jackson


Those things are so obvious.

THat's why his progression skyrocketed in 2007 even though he was catching balls from the likes of Joey Harrington.

It's not because Joey Harrington was more accurate than Vick or some ridiculous convoluted reason like Vick being left handed vs right handed.

It's because the Falcons actually ran a real passing game under Petrino and Hue Jackson the same guy who turned around the career of TJ Houshmanzedah and who Chad Johnson even said was like a father figure to him, got a whole of Roddy and helped him tap into his potential.

Anyone blaming Vick for holding Roddy back is being ridiculous or applying some serious tunnel vision and ignoring those glaringly obvious variables.

BBIB
10-29-2008, 04:58 PM
I'm sorry, but i'm calling B.S here. I don't wanna hear any "spin on the ball" junk as justification for his stone hands early in his career. d34ng3lo (damn, that took a while to type) is right, Vick was just always a really bad passer (or should i say thrower?), and that contributed to White being bad, but wasn't the only factor. His left handed-ness had nothing to do with it. As soon as he got some half decent guys throwing him the ball, and he got some new gloves (or whatever it is he did to get better hands), he started putting up some nice numbers. He should be very good for a long time with Matty Ice as his QB.

If Vick sucked at throwing so much then why was Alge Crumpler a Pro Bowler all those years?

It had nothing to do with Vick. It was because Roddy couldn't catch and we didn't run routes to get him open.

In the few games in 2006 when the Falcons actually threw the ball down the field like vs the Cowboys, Steelers, and Bengals, not only did Vick have career days throwing the football but Roddy White also produced. This was not coincidental. Roddy White is at his best when he is stretching the field vertically. And when you stretch the field vertically and don't call BS dink and dunk routes, receivers actually get open.

The idea that Vick could not find a passing target is fallacious. The difference between 50% and 60% completion percentage is a couple of pass attempts per game when you are throwing the ball 20 times a game. And that is nothing more than a few dump off attempts per game, dump offs in which Vick was scrambling on instead of throwing.

MetSox17
10-29-2008, 05:14 PM
If Vick sucked at throwing so much then why was Alge Crumpler a Pro Bowler all those years?

It had nothing to do with Vick. It was because Roddy couldn't catch and we didn't run routes to get him open.

In the few games in 2006 when the Falcons actually threw the ball down the field like vs the Cowboys, Steelers, and Bengals, not only did Vick have career days throwing the football but Roddy White also produced. This was not coincidental. Roddy White is at his best when he is stretching the field vertically. And when you stretch the field vertically and don't call BS dink and dunk routes, receivers actually get open.

The idea that Vick could not find a passing target is fallacious. The difference between 50% and 60% completion percentage is a couple of pass attempts per game when you are throwing the ball 20 times a game. And that is nothing more than a few dump off attempts per game, dump offs in which Vick was scrambling on instead of throwing.

Hey, great job and not reading my post! I said

Vick was just always a really bad passer (or should i say thrower?), and that contributed to White being bad, but wasn't the only factor.

I've acknowledged that Vick wasn't the only reason Roddy didn't succeed, but to argue that him completely sucking at the quarterback position had no affect whatsoever on Roddy White or any other player is absolutely laughable. If Alge Crumpler was a Pro-Bowler, he just might have been All-Pro with a real quarterback.

Addict
10-29-2008, 05:17 PM
no, not yet.

thank you, and goodnight.

[/thread]

BBIB
10-29-2008, 05:36 PM
Hey, great job and not reading my post! I said

I've acknowledged that Vick wasn't the only reason Roddy didn't succeed, but to argue that him completely sucking at the quarterback position had no affect whatsoever on Roddy White or any other player is absolutely laughable. If Alge Crumpler was a Pro-Bowler, he just might have been All-Pro with a real quarterback.

So Alge Crumpler went to the Pro Bowl 4 straight times, and Vick was holding him back? LOL

Alge was who he was. He was a Pro Bowler. He put up the same numbers as a guy like Jeremy Shockey and Jason Witten. But to be an All-Pro that means you're not only the best in your conference, which Alge always ranked near or at the top of the NFC, but you're the best in the NFL. Alge was not as talented as Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez. You're insane if you think he was/is. Those guys were physical freaks of nature.


He wasn't a reason at all. Vick was a part of the solution not the problem.

You think Roddy White's numbers went up drastically in 2007 because the almighty Joey Harrington was a better passer than Vick???

Joey Harrington doesn't even have more career TDs than INTs. The Falcons passing game took off because Bobby Petrino threw the ball down the field and called real passing routes and because the potential of guys like Roddy White was tapped into with the best WR coach in the business.

Just look at TJ Houshmanzedah's improvement from 2004-2006. Now people will say, well obviously Carson Palmer was a better QB. But truthfully the 2004 version of Carson Palmer was no better than the 2002-2003 version of Kitna. The difference is that the potential of TJ Houshmanzedah was tapped into by their WR coach that they signed that year. In fact he was the same guy who lobbied for the team not to cut TJ in the first place.

Unfortunately with so much of the game focused on the glory position of football, the coaching/scheming/ skill player progression aspect of football gets completely overlooked.

Bruce Banner
10-29-2008, 05:58 PM
Maybe the reason Crumpler had such good stats was because Vick always deferred to the check down because he couldn't throw to receivers with great efficiency.

BBIB
10-29-2008, 06:03 PM
Maybe the reason Crumpler had such good stats was because Vick always deferred to the check down because he couldn't throw to receivers with great efficiency.

Or maybe just maybe that coaching and schemes has more to do with football than people think!

The Falcons were in a vertical offense in 2002 and surprise, surprise, a receiver actually led the team in receiving instead of Crumpler!

And surprise, surprise, Vick had his best season passing the football in terms of yardage and TD/INT ratio.

Also surprise surprise in games when Falcons went down the field in his last season in the league the Falcons passing game down the field took off which is why Vick had several career high games.

Maybe, just maybe the oversimplification of basing everything in football off of the QB is not accurate.

Maybe, just maybe Crumpler was always the most productive TE in the NFC because he was indeed the best TE in the NFC and being the most decent target on the team, Vick got him the football.

Maybe, just maybe, he wasn't an All-Pro because quite frankly as great as he was he wasn't as good as HOFers like Gates and Gonzalez.

But no everything is Vick's fault.

Geez, for a guy who was holding that Falcons team as back as people make it seem, Im surprised the team in 2001, 2003, and 2006 in his absence wasn't as good as this year's Titans team. Im surprised the team was the complete opposite, a lot worse without him.

Bruce Banner
10-29-2008, 06:06 PM
EDIT: I'm taking JBond's advice!
:O

BamaFalcon59
10-29-2008, 06:28 PM
Vick was a better passer than given credit for, although he wasn't a great one. He could hit the receiver in stride very often, but the touch wasn't there and his offensive line often forced him to run.

As for Crumpler, he wasn't a checkdown receiver. He had a very high yards per catch for his career. The reason he had such good numbers was that he knew how to move with Vick, they had good chemistry.

BamaFalcon59
10-29-2008, 06:28 PM
Also, this is not a Vick thread, get off the subject. This is a Roddy White/ young receivers thread.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-29-2008, 06:31 PM
Vick was a better passer than given credit for, although he wasn't a great one. He could hit the receiver in stride very often, but the touch wasn't there and his offensive line often forced him to run.

As for Crumpler, he wasn't a checkdown receiver. He had a very high yards per catch for his career. The reason he had such good numbers was that he knew how to move with Vick, they had good chemistry.



Bingo. Vick had a beautiful deep ball. His problem was intermediate type routes. As Bama said, Vick and Crumpler always seemed to be on the page (ex. if Vick was on the run, Crump always seemed to get into a place where Vick could throw). Let's not go here with this thread though. Let's keep it soley focused on jizzing over how good Roddy is.

d34ng3l021
10-29-2008, 06:43 PM
Vick didn't have a beautiful deep ball. He had a great arm, but there were a lot of erratic throws down field. Once in a while he would hit the guy perfectly (Jenkins 60 yard catch against the Eagles on opening MNF. What a pass), but mostly it was bad. I liked him in the intermediate-long range throws. About 25 yard throws. He was pretty money on there. Anything shorter he had no touch.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-29-2008, 06:49 PM
Vick didn't have a beautiful deep ball. He had a great arm, but there were a lot of erratic throws down field. Once in a while he would hit the guy perfectly (Jenkins 60 yard catch against the Eagles on opening MNF. What a pass), but mostly it was bad. I liked him in the intermediate-long range throws. About 25 yard throws. He was pretty money on there. Anything shorter he had no touch.



You must be mistaken. He had a cannon and threw it with a perfect spiral downfield often hitting guys in stride. Watch some of the throws he made when he was in a more downfield attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnPJYT5FHIU&feature=related


And just to get this thread back to where it needs to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl8bmRJgec

Awesome.

BamaFalcon59
10-29-2008, 07:07 PM
There's not a QB in a league who can make the throw Vick makes at 1:00. The way he stops, the way his body his positioned, and he still makes the throw.

Bruce Banner
10-29-2008, 07:31 PM
There's not a QB in a league who can make the throw Vick makes at 1:00. The way he stops, the way his body his positioned, and he still makes the throw.

Just let go man.....

http://bp0.blogger.com/_f-RlngwKRcE/R3lBt8fqrEI/AAAAAAAAABo/C8md0k8OaCU/s1600-h/let+go.bmp

d34ng3l021
10-29-2008, 07:31 PM
Matt Ryan to Roddy White for 55 yards includes one of the best passes I have ever seen. Wow.

But yeah. Some of the throws Vick makes down the field are good, but its a highlight tape so of course they will be. He has had plenty of off target ones.

BamaFalcon59
10-29-2008, 07:32 PM
I'd take Matt Ryan over Michael Vick.

But Vick had his moments, and he was fun to watch and good for the team. No reason for me to hate on him.

d34ng3l021
10-29-2008, 07:45 PM
Im not hating on him. I just thought his long throws were more off target than on. He was a fun QB to watch.

BamaFalcon59
10-29-2008, 07:45 PM
I was responding to BB.

iloxygenil
10-30-2008, 10:12 AM
You guys overestimate pro-bowl voters. While he may deserve to go in, it would surprise at all if he did not make it

Its not just on the voters though. That's only 1/3 of the formula, otherwise Demorrio Williams would have made the pro bowl a couple of years ago with the Falcons.

Bruce Banner
10-30-2008, 10:14 AM
Any type of pro-bowl/all-star game is a joke.....in any sport.....anything that allows fans to give their input is a joke....

I try not to but I still care about the MLB all-stars.

I gave up on the NFL a long time ago.

iloxygenil
10-30-2008, 10:18 AM
Any type of pro-bowl/all-star game is a joke.....in any sport.....anything that allows fans to give their input is a joke....

They do it so the fans feel connected, they can vote someone in and the player not make it, or they can not vote someone in and they make it

1/3 of the vote is fans 1/3 coaches 1/3 players. So if coaches and players put a guy in he's in, no matter what the fans say. That's why Roddy is going to make the pro bowl this year. Coaches know the guy, he's made a name for himself this year. Lets just hope he can stay healthy.

There's no doubt this kid has 'elite' written all over him, but he needs to sustain his current level of play to be considered 'elite' can't do it in just 2 years, if he finishes this year and does it again next year he is 'elite' no one could logically argue that. His skillset and ability are already elite, he just has to have that sticking power that the top tier guys have had.

BBIB
11-02-2008, 04:00 PM
I'd take Matt Ryan over Michael Vick.

But Vick had his moments, and he was fun to watch and good for the team. No reason for me to hate on him.

LOL, Vick would be undefeated if he had the talent around him that was on this year's team.

But obviously it's a moot point because he's in prison.

But yeah let's bring this back on topic. If we want a Vick vs Matt Ryan thread, then somebody needs to make another one.


Roddy White is the freaking man. Although today it seems like Michael Jenkins is having a good game. He torched D.Hall on one play and was found open on another. 2 TDs already in the 1st half.

tjsunstein
11-02-2008, 04:42 PM
From the 13th of October to November 2nd. This thread should go under the homer section now..

iloxygenil
11-02-2008, 05:22 PM
From the 13th of October to November 2nd. This thread should go under the homer section now..

Think so? he looks like he's doing his work out there every week, and fighting for a spot.

BamaFalcon59
11-02-2008, 06:50 PM
LOL, Vick would be undefeated if he had the talent around him that was on this year's team.

But obviously it's a moot point because he's in prison.

But yeah let's bring this back on topic. If we want a Vick vs Matt Ryan thread, then somebody needs to make another one.


Roddy White is the freaking man. Although today it seems like Michael Jenkins is having a good game. He torched D.Hall on one play and was found open on another. 2 TDs already in the 1st half.

No, he wouldn't. He would have screwed up the Chicago game at the least with turnovers.

tjsunstein
11-02-2008, 09:56 PM
Think so? he looks like he's doing his work out there every week, and fighting for a spot.

It takes alot to be elite, you cant go off of one and a half fulfilled seasons and the rest off of potential and what ifs. I'm sure in due time but you are jumping on him way too early. Let him do his thing and decide in three years from now. He could turn out like T.O. or Roy Williams. Time will tell.

BBIB
11-03-2008, 11:32 AM
No, he wouldn't. He would have screwed up the Chicago game at the least with turnovers.

LOL that same Chicago game that we settled for all of those FGs? And speaking of turnovers the one we're lucky that they didn't get a pick six in?

That was an impressive final drive by Ryan, but the Bears should have never come that close to winning. Oh and I highly doubt we would be winless in the division

You're kidding yourself if you think Matt Ryan right now would be more effective than Vick if he never went to jail.

Vick was top 10 in the league in TDs and TD/TO ratio the last time he was in a vertical offense with a far lesser team.

iloxygenil
11-03-2008, 11:54 AM
It takes alot to be elite, you cant go off of one and a half fulfilled seasons and the rest off of potential and what ifs. I'm sure in due time but you are jumping on him way too early. Let him do his thing and decide in three years from now. He could turn out like T.O. or Roy Williams. Time will tell.

It doesn't take 3 years, people have Greg Jennings there already, he's not separated himself from Roddy...at all. I'm not saying Roddy is elite yet, refer to my previous post talking about how he has to continue his success, but he has all the tools to be an elite WR, and he's had a season and a half of fantastic production. You can't take that away from him.

iloxygenil
11-03-2008, 11:56 AM
LOL that same Chicago game that we settled for all of those FGs? And speaking of turnovers the one we're lucky that they didn't get a pick six in?

That was an impressive final drive by Ryan, but the Bears should have never come that close to winning. Oh and I highly doubt we would be winless in the division

You're kidding yourself if you think Matt Ryan right now would be more effective than Vick if he never went to jail.

Vick was top 10 in the league in TDs and TD/TO ratio the last time he was in a vertical offense with a far lesser team.

You just like to hear yourself talk, or read what you type don't you? Cause this is unsubstantiated BS. I just hope you're joking. Vick was a polarizing figure in Atlanta's lockerroom. I loved Vick on the field, but he always relied on himself too much, more than turning to his team. Vick could throw a beautiful deep ball yes and he could have been the GOAT with some work ethic, but he didn't do it, potential vs proven product.

tjsunstein
11-03-2008, 12:00 PM
You just like to hear yourself talk, or read what you type don't you? Cause this is unsubstantiated BS. I just hope you're joking. Vick was a polarizing figure in Atlanta's lockerroom. I loved Vick on the field, but he always relied on himself too much, more than turning to his team. Vick could throw a beautiful deep ball yes and he could have been the GOAT with some work ethic, but he didn't do it, potential vs proven product.

It takes alot to be elite, you cant go off of one and a half fulfilled seasons and the rest off of potential and what ifs. I'm sure in due time but you are jumping on him way too early. Let him do his thing and decide in three years from now. He could turn out like T.O. or Roy Williams. Time will tell.

The overall consensus is that he is not elite.. yet. But well on his way.

LonghornsLegend
11-03-2008, 12:08 PM
Was Aso covering Roddy this game? I'm assuming so since Jenkins had a great game.

bernbabybern820
11-03-2008, 12:54 PM
Was Aso covering Roddy this game? I'm assuming so since Jenkins had a great game.

About half the time.

scar988
11-19-2008, 12:28 AM
For those still doubting. Roddy is in the top 5 for ALL NFL receiver right now IMO... and the stats will back me up:
#7 in the NFL in receptions (58)
#3 in the NFL in yards (903) (#3 of the top 10 players in YPC)
#4 in the NFL in yards per game (90.3)
#3 in the NFL in TD's (6) (Tied)
#3 in the NFL in 20+ plays (11) (Tied)
#4 in the NFL in 40+ plays (3) (Tied)
#3 in the NFL in first downs (43) (Tied) (#3 in 1st down % in the top 10)

the argument could be made that Roddy white is a top 3 receiver when looking at his stats.

d34ng3l021
11-19-2008, 12:34 AM
This year alone, yeah he is a top 5 receiver. When talking about in general, you can't discredit the consistently good seasons other WRs have had, like Steve Smith, Randy Moss, etc.

scar988
11-19-2008, 12:38 AM
it's also just his 4th season. it took TO about 3 seasons to break out as well.

d34ng3l021
11-19-2008, 12:49 AM
Even after TO broke out, people didn't proclaim him to be a top 5 WR in the league. In order to do that, you have to chalk up seasons of 1200+ yards. I have no doubt that White has the ability to do so, but I would not call him an elite receiver unless he can replicate this years success next year as well (all throughout the season. That would give him 1200, 1400ish, 1400ish yards in 3 years).

Rayray52
11-19-2008, 01:03 AM
How is this thread still going, its too bad this forum dosent have team forums where this could be discussed...OH WAIT

Number 10
11-19-2008, 08:47 AM
How is this thread still going, its too bad this forum dosent have team forums where this could be discussed...OH WAIT

Because White is being talked amongst the other WRs in the NFL.

You complain a lot.

LonghornsLegend
11-19-2008, 12:21 PM
How is this thread still going, its too bad this forum dosent have team forums where this could be discussed...OH WAIT

I guess you didn't realize that the original question was posed to the members of the forum, just because he plays for ATL doesn't mean it has to go into the team thread.


I also find it amusing that you ask "how is this thread still going", yet you reply to it to bump it to the top adding nothing relevant to the discussion.

awfullyquiet
11-19-2008, 12:34 PM
Even after TO broke out, people didn't proclaim him to be a top 5 WR in the league. In order to do that, you have to chalk up seasons of 1200+ yards. I have no doubt that White has the ability to do so, but I would not call him an elite receiver unless he can replicate this years success next year as well (all throughout the season. That would give him 1200, 1400ish, 1400ish yards in 3 years).

exactly. TO has consistently produced most of his career.
ocho cinco has consistently produced most of his career.
steve smith has constantly produced most of his career.
jerry rice has constantly produced most of his career.

roddy white. sure. top 5 this year.
bernard berrian was a top 5 three years ago. was he ever again? no.

when you talk about tiers, you don't talk about 'right now'.

ChezPower4
11-19-2008, 01:08 PM
exactly. TO has consistently produced most of his career.
ocho cinco has consistently produced most of his career.
steve smith has constantly produced most of his career.
jerry rice has constantly produced most of his career.

roddy white. sure. top 5 this year.
bernard berrian was a top 5 three years ago. was he ever again? no.

when you talk about tiers, you don't talk about 'right now'.

Why is Jerry Rice in the same paragraph as Chad Johnson and Steve Smith? They have not yet earned that honor.

Menardo75
11-19-2008, 01:35 PM
Why is Jerry Rice in the same paragraph as Chad Johnson and Steve Smith? They have not yet earned that honor.

Yeah do not bring Jerry down to their level.

Pokeys
11-19-2008, 02:08 PM
Bernard Berrian?

MetSox17
11-19-2008, 02:17 PM
Speaking of top WR's, a few days ago i was driving home from school, and i had the horrible luck of catching Keyshawn Johnson babbling away with Chris Mortensen on the sports bash (which they completely ruined). Both Key and Mort were talking on how Santana Moss was a equal or better than the following WR's:

Larry Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens, Anquan Boldin.

Just made me sick to my stomach. I turned the radio off quickly after hearing how Santana Moss and Steve Smith is a toss-up. Kuselias wasn't buying their BS, and he called them out, and Key went on how Moss was better, and after that i didn't listen.

I seriously hate those guys. Do they not watch any football? Do they just go by what the guys from NFL live show? Man i hate ESPN.

Draft King
11-19-2008, 02:19 PM
Speaking of top WR's, a few days ago i was driving home from school, and i had the horrible luck of catching Keyshawn Johnson babbling away with Chris Mortensen on the sports bash (which they completely ruined). Both Key and Mort were talking on how Santana Moss was a equal or better than the following WR's:

Larry Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens, Anquan Boldin.

Just made me sick to my stomach. I turned the radio off quickly after hearing how Santana Moss and Steve Smith is a toss-up. Kuselias wasn't buying their BS, and he called them out, and Key went on how Moss was better, and after that i didn't listen.

I seriously hate those guys. Do they not watch any football? Do they just go by what the guys from NFL live show? Man i hate ESPN.

Although in this situation I don't agree they both certainly know much more about football than you could even dream of. Keyshawn was a #1 pick and played pro obviously he understands the game.

Bengalsrocket
11-19-2008, 02:48 PM
Although in this situation I don't agree they both certainly know much more about football than you could even dream of. Keyshawn was a #1 pick and played pro obviously he understands the game.

Playing in the pros certainly qualifies you to know more than a fan about football. I mean, look at McNabb - he's a straight genius when it comes to football knowledge (outside of the whole not knowing you can tie thing, of course).

Draft King
11-19-2008, 02:54 PM
Playing in the pros certainly qualifies you to know more than a fan about football. I mean, look at McNabb - he's a straight genius when it comes to football knowledge (outside of the whole not knowing you can tie thing, of course).

You're right, he's an idiot for not knowing that. But if you were given a version of an NFL playbook, who do you think would know more??? McNabb, or you?

giantsfan
11-19-2008, 03:11 PM
You're right, he's an idiot for not knowing that. But if you were given a version of an NFL playbook, who do you think would know more??? McNabb, or you?

Heatherzzzz

MetSox17
11-19-2008, 03:19 PM
Although in this situation I don't agree they both certainly know much more about football than you could even dream of. Keyshawn was a #1 pick and played pro obviously he understands the game.

They might know more about playing the game, and how to run a route, but that means nothing when it comes to evaluating talent. Him being an ex player means absolutely nothing when differentiating a scrub from a star.

Bengalsrocket
11-19-2008, 03:20 PM
You're right, he's an idiot for not knowing that. But if you were given a version of an NFL playbook, who do you think would know more??? McNabb, or you?

Definitely McNabb, no argument there. I don't really want to argue this because Keshawn simply stated his opinion and I think everyone has a right to do that ( especially if a company is going to pay you for your opinion :) ). But I think he went overboard in his argument and it's hard to validate his opinions simply by saying "he played the game".

I don't want to be "that guy" who always goes to statistics because I know the game is a lot more than that. But between Steve Smith, Larry Johnson & Anquan Boldin the statistics don't favor Santana Moss. If you compare all 4 player's, Moss doesn't lead a single receiving category that I can find.

BamaFalcon59
11-19-2008, 04:37 PM
Who said Bernard Berrian was top five? Berrian has never had a thousand yard season, let alone be a top five receiver.

Menardo75
11-19-2008, 05:53 PM
Key has never been the brightest bulb on the tree either...

d34ng3l021
11-19-2008, 06:25 PM
Why is Jerry Rice in the same paragraph as Chad Johnson and Steve Smith? They have not yet earned that honor.

Well Jerry Rice's career has been about twice as long TO's, making his feat 2x as impressive.

And his career is done so theres no question debating that. TO still has a chance to trail off.

MetSox17
11-19-2008, 06:31 PM
Key has never been the brightest bulb on the tree either...

And he's into interior design..

ChezPower4
11-20-2008, 07:12 AM
Well Jerry Rice's career has been about twice as long TO's, making his feat 2x as impressive.

And his career is done so theres no question debating that. TO still has a chance to trail off.

I never said anything about TO not being deserving. His career speaks for itself.

Menardo75
11-20-2008, 03:07 PM
And he's into interior design..

Some peoples kids man I tell ya.