TO or Moss

[JJJ888]

Who would you take?(Poll) Who has worse character issues?

[P-L]

If we base it on talent then Moss. If you go overall I say Moss still barely edges out TO.

[Shasta]

Moss is the best WR in the NFL and most talented EVER.

(until matt jones comes around 6'6" 242 4.37)

[Xiomera]

I wouldn't take either of them. Give me Hines Ward or Marvin Harrison anyway.

[Shasta]

I wouldn't take either of them. Give me Hines Ward or Marvin Harrison anyway.

Harrison is a product of Manning, hell 2 other WR's on his team put up as good if not better #'s

[Xiomera]

Thats not the point. Any receiver is better than Moss and TO in my opinion.

[Shasta]

Thats not the point. Any receiver is better than Moss and TO in my opinion.

Well you and ever NFL coach/scout/and GM have completely different veiwpoints. Did you see the NFL draft Special on sports center today? they asked the same quesiton to a handful of NFL coaches and they all said they would love to have both of them in a heart beat. This is why i dont respect your opinion. You are just a Fan

[bxbanger]

TO is the most dominant WR in the NFL and this is coming from a Giants fanatic. Don't hate on him. If your team had him you'd luv him. Man to man, he'll eat it up. Zone, don't even insult him. The man is always open and unlike Moss he never takes a play off. He works so hard when he's on the field he makes QB's feel like it's a crime for not getting him the ball. Don't let all the media hype fool you, the man just want's his just deserve.

[Shasta]

TO is the most dominant WR in the NFL and this is coming from a Giants fanatic. Don't hate on him. If your team had him you'd luv him. Man to man, he'll eat it up. Zone, don't even insult him. The man is always open and unlike Moss he never takes a play off. He works so hard when he's on the field he makes QB's feel like it's a crime for not getting him the ball. Don't let all the media hype fool you, the man just want's his just deserve.
TO is more Dominant than Randy? Go and ask some Corners about that

[Bengalsrz]

i go TO cause randy never runs out to catch balls up the middle, that is important, randy is scared to take hits and that is why he doesnt run routs up the middle. He also runs out of bounds all the time.

[Xiomera]

Thats not the point. Any receiver is better than Moss and TO in my opinion.

Well you and ever NFL coach/scout/and GM have completely different veiwpoints. Did you see the NFL draft Special on sports center today? they asked the same quesiton to a handful of NFL coaches and they all said they would love to have both of them in a heart beat. This is why i dont respect your opinion. You are just a Fan

Its not a queston of talent. They are the most talented receivers in the league. The only problem is that they are both cancer's to their respective teams. TO bashing McNabb and demanding more money . . . Moss walking off the field and constantly getting fined . . . not the type of guy I would want on my team. Guys like Torry Holt and Hines Ward are better becasue they are only a slight step down in talent from TO and Moss, but they come without the character issues and all the hassel.

Its my opinion, just the same as any of your opinions. You don't have to agree with it, but you don't have to bash it.

[Shasta]

Thats not the point. Any receiver is better than Moss and TO in my opinion.

Well you and ever NFL coach/scout/and GM have completely different veiwpoints. Did you see the NFL draft Special on sports center today? they asked the same quesiton to a handful of NFL coaches and they all said they would love to have both of them in a heart beat. This is why i dont respect your opinion. You are just a Fan

Its not a queston of talent. They are the most talented receivers in the league. The only problem is that they are both cancer's to their respective teams. TO bashing McNabb and demanding more money . . . Moss walking off the field and constantly getting fined . . . not the type of guy I would want on my team. Guys like Torry Holt and Hines Ward are better becasue they are only a slight step down in talent from TO and Moss, but they come without the character issues and all the hassel.

Its my opinion, just the same as any of your opinions. You don't have to agree with it, but you don't have to bash it.

1) read the quotes about him "bashing" McNabb i wouldnt call it "bashing"
2) we dont know if he is demanding more money or not there is no official word on that
3) THE GAME WAS OVER
4) Him getting fined doesnt matter, he cant Fake moon? come on.
5) He isnt the type of player that you would want on your team. Well guess what you are not an NFL coach. NFL coaches, GM's and Owners do want those players on their team.
6) Ward and Hold couldnt hold Moss's Jock
7) Every NFL corner would agree with #6
8) You dont even know these guys the media paints the piture they want.

[Bengalsrz]

are you saying you dont think it is bad that he walked into the locker room??????? That shows he has no spirit for his team, you have to trade a player like that, i dont even know how the raiders took him.

[Xiomera]

1) read the quotes about him "bashing" McNabb i wouldnt call it "bashing"
2) we dont know if he is demanding more money or not there is no official word on that
3) THE GAME WAS OVER
4) Him getting fined doesnt matter, he cant Fake moon? come on.
5) He isnt the type of player that you would want on your team. Well guess what you are not an NFL coach. NFL coaches, GM's and Owners do want those players on their team.
6) Ward and Hold couldnt hold Moss's Jock
7) Every NFL corner would agree with #6
You dont even know these guys the media paints the piture they want.

You may be the only person that believes all that crap you just said.

[Shasta]

are you saying you dont think it is bad that he walked into the locker room??????? That shows he has no spirit for his team, you have to trade a player like that, i dont even know how the raiders took him.

The Raiders took him because next year they'll win 11+ games.

And no the game was over. Randy didnt think there was anytime left on the clock and if you did all that you could to win like Randy Did and the rest of those bums on the vikings just gave it up like a bunch of scrubs you would be frustrated as well.

[Xiomera]

The Raiders took him because next year they'll win 11+ games.

And no the game was over. Randy didnt think there was anytime left on the clock and if you did all that you could to win like Randy Did and the rest of those bums on the vikings just gave it up like a bunch of scrubs you would be frustrated as well.

The Raiders won't win 11+ games until they get a defense. Look at the Colts, they are never gonna win anything until they get a defense either.

Why are you defensing Moss and TO? You act like his agent or something . . .

[Shasta]

The Raiders took him because next year they'll win 11+ games.

And no the game was over. Randy didnt think there was anytime left on the clock and if you did all that you could to win like Randy Did and the rest of those bums on the vikings just gave it up like a bunch of scrubs you would be frustrated as well.

The Raiders won't win 11+ games until they get a defense. Look at the Colts, they are never gonna win anything until they get a defense either.

Why are you defensing Moss and TO? You act like his agent or something . . .

When did i defend TO, the eagles average more points per game without him anyhow.

Randy Moss is the truth and Yes the raiders will win 11+ games, they are a very good team. You know, better than the bengals

[Bengalsrz]

thank you xiomera, i noticed that too, and sasha, we all know the game was over and everyone would be frustrated but to walk out on your team, the bum didnt even have the patience to wait another 3 seconds?? How can you defend him

[Shasta]

thank you xiomera, i noticed that too, and sasha, we all know the game was over and everyone would be frustrated but to walk out on your team, the bum didnt even have the patience to wait another 3 seconds?? How can you defend him

The Bum? Randy Moss has more talent and money than you'll ever have. Think about that


"straight cash homey"

[Bengalsrz]

he has talent but if he continues to act the way he has been acting, that talents gonna go to waste, people dont wanna sign players with sorry attitiudes, and randy is one of those guys

[Shasta]

he has talent but if he continues to act the way he has been acting, that talents gonna go to waste, people dont wanna sign players with sorry attitiudes, and randy is one of those guys

People dont want to sign him, On ESPN today 5 NFL coaches were on and they all said they would take TO and Randy in a heartbeat. So where did you get this information from? Oh... you are just a fan making a stupid statement. Congrats.

Randy is the best WR in the Game Period.

[Bengalsrz]

i said i fhe continues to act how he is been acting, so know what you are saying before you say it

[Shasta]

i said i fhe continues to act how he is been acting, so know what you are saying before you say it

How has he been acting? do you know him personally? All i know is that he dominates the game and his teammates cant carry their share. That can be frusterating.

[Xiomera]

How has he been acting? do you know him personally? All i know is that he dominates the game and his teammates cant carry their share. That can be frusterating.

Wait a second . . . do YOU know him personally? Didn't think so

[Bengalsrz]

if thats all you know then you dont know much, he has a bad attitude, talks way too much trash, asks for so much money, gets fined like every game, and then he walks out on his team, thats how he has been acting, you really need to get your facts straight cause you obviously dont know what ur talkin about

[Shasta]

How has he been acting? do you know him personally? All i know is that he dominates the game and his teammates cant carry their share. That can be frusterating.

Wait a second . . . do YOU know him personally? Didn't think so

I didnt bring up how he was acting. Im just pointing out that His Teammates all say he is a very hard worker, not to mention he produces on the field and is the most talented WR to ever play the game. The raiders will win 11

[Shasta]

if thats all you know then you dont know much, he has a bad attitude, talks way too much trash, asks for so much money, gets fined like every game, and then he walks out on his team, thats how he has been acting, you really need to get your facts straight cause you obviously dont know what ur talkin about

1) He has a bad attitude basied on? Exactly you dont know that at all.
2) Asks for 2 much money? are you serious? he is the biggest game changer in the NFL.
3) he gets fined "like every game" please find that one for me
4) The game was over and he didnt know there was still 2 seconds left. Also he would have never been on the field anyone cause they didnt get the ball back.
5) I proved that crap wrong
6) You dont know Jack. Sorry better luck next time

You are getting "old Yeller'ed" in this thread

[Xiomera]

I didnt bring up how he was acting. Im just pointing out that His Teammates all say he is a very hard worker, not to mention he produces on the field and is the most talented WR to ever play the game. The raiders will win 11

You contradict yourself too much.

Back up your bold statement about the Raiders . . . why will they win 11 games? If Moss is "the most talented WR to ever play the game", then why could the Vikes only win 8 games last year and miss the playoffs the season before? Oakland's defense sucks. They are no different than the Colts, only they have a worse QB, RB, and TE. Back up you opinions or we are never gonna believe you.

[Shasta]

I didnt bring up how he was acting. Im just pointing out that His Teammates all say he is a very hard worker, not to mention he produces on the field and is the most talented WR to ever play the game. The raiders will win 11

You contradict yourself too much.

Back up your bold statement about the Raiders . . . why will they win 11 games? If Moss is "the most talented WR to ever play the game", then why could the Vikes only win 8 games last year and miss the playoffs the season before? Oakland's defense sucks. They are no different than the Colts, only they have a worse QB, RB, and TE. Back up you opinions or we are never gonna believe you.

Because randy moss is the biggest game changer in the league, Lamont Jordan will be good, Burgess will help the defense, Collins can throw the rock, and Porter and moss will beat up corners. Also i do recall the colts winning more than 11 games.

[Xiomera]

The defense still sucks. It will prevent them from winning 11 games. Not to mention they just traded away one of the few quality players on the defense in Philip Buchanon. Moss won't add 5-6 wins to their total. No one player is that good.

[Bengalsrz]

and that excuse of not knowing there were two seconds left probably has to be the stupidest thing i have ever heard, he made an excuse which we all know is a lie so you didnt prove me wrong and i didnt really understand ur #1 pint so u might wanna clear that up, i guess i know why you got kicked off the first time, you really are annoying, maybe people wouldnt hate you so much if you would shut up and stop thinking you are so much smarter than everyone caus actually, you dont know jack.

[iceagles]

TO is the best no dout about it :evil:

[Shasta]

The defense still sucks. It will prevent them from winning 11 games. Not to mention they just traded away one of the few quality players on the defense in Philip Buchanon. Moss won't add 5-6 wins to their total. No one player is that good.

Moss combined with Porter combined with Lamont The Raiders are going to win 11 games. You can save that.

[Shasta]

and that excuse of not knowing there were two seconds left probably has to be the stupidest thing i have ever heard, he made an excuse which we all know is a lie so you didnt prove me wrong and i didnt really understand ur #1 pint so u might wanna clear that up, i guess i know why you got kicked off the first time, you really are annoying, maybe people wouldnt hate you so much if you would shut up and stop thinking you are so much smarter than everyone caus actually, you dont know jack.
I know all you are just my little scrubby whiping boy. NFL coaches were just on Sportscenter saying it. Unless you are a current NFL head coach... And not some alcoholic fan, then your opinion on this subject is meaningless.

[Shasta]

TO is the best no dout about it :evil:

Yeah right

Fact -from Game 6 in 2003 On and the 2 playoff games without TO the eagles averaged 28 ppg, while with TO (the almighty god) they averaged 26 conclusion? The eagles are worse on offense with TO like it or not, you are going to have to live with that fact.

[JJJ888]

Shasta's back!!!

[DHVF]

Shasta's back!!!
Hide the children!

[Shasta]

Shasta's back!!!
Hide the children!

The viking wont win more than 6 games

[DHVF]

Shasta's back!!!
Hide the children!

The viking wont win more than 6 games
OK pal! TO will be the cancer that prevents the Eagles from making the playoffs.

[Shasta]

Shasta's back!!!
Hide the children!

The viking wont win more than 6 games
OK pal! TO will be the cancer that prevents the Eagles from making the playoffs.

The eagles are already in the Playoffs they might as well not play the games. 11, 11, 12, 12, superbowl.... all done without TO.

[DHVF]

Mine was just a joke.

[Shasta]

Mine was just a joke.
Mine wasnt the Vikings got rid of their only talented player

[Xiomera]

Mine was just a joke.
Mine wasnt the Vikings got rid of their only talented player

Yeah, the guy who couldn't get them into the playoffs in 2003, and was injured for a good portion of 2004. If he's so talented, then why haven't they won anything? The Vikes are better off without him.

[detroit4life]

shasta are u telling me that culpepper isn't talented???

[P-L]

I'm sorry I don't like Shasta but I actually find myslef somewhat agreeing with him on some of this stuff (The first time I've ever agreed with him). It is almost a fact that Randy Moss is the biggest game changer in all of football. And although I think 5-6 wins is a bit much, Moss could add 3-4 wins just by himself. He is that good. I also agree with Shasta that the Eagles would be better off without TO. I cannot completely agree with him though, the Vikings will win a lot more than 6 games. I am picking them for the Super Bowl.

[wingboy2999]

shasta are u telling me that culpepper isn't talented???

Yeah, come on. Even us Lions Fan thinks he deserves some recognition.

[Twiddler]

Honestly, i can't figure out some of the things you are saying some of the time. All you talk about is money and talent and how randy is better than any other person who ever walked the face of the earth. You act like you know him personally and that he is your best bud and sometimes you act like your randy moss himself. Just trying to point out that this is a discussion board and opinions are respected. And your's is respected too as long as you stop being so harsh to other people with different opinions. And don't even dare try telling me that randy is way more talented and has more money that i will ever see because i would rather just be myself.

[Xiomera]

Honestly, i can't figure out some of the things you are saying some of the time. All you talk about is money and talent and how randy is better than any other person who ever walked the face of the earth. You act like you know him personally and that he is your best bud and sometimes you act like your randy moss himself. Just trying to point out that this is a discussion board and opinions are respected. And your's is respected too as long as you stop being so harsh to other people with different opinions. And don't even dare try telling me that randy is way more talented and has more money that i will ever see because i would rather just be myself.

Amen

[DHVF]

Honestly, i can't figure out some of the things you are saying some of the time. All you talk about is money and talent and how randy is better than any other person who ever walked the face of the earth. You act like you know him personally and that he is your best bud and sometimes you act like your randy moss himself. Just trying to point out that this is a discussion board and opinions are respected. And your's is respected too as long as you stop being so harsh to other people with different opinions. And don't even dare try telling me that randy is way more talented and has more money that i will ever see because i would rather just be myself.
This is a must read for Shasta

[Twiddler]

I know this is going back to the first page of this but when you said that xiomera was just a fan(which is not that bad because we are all pretty much fans in this place and you don't see too many gm's in here) i just want to ask what are you shasta??? i'm just looking for an answer. I know i'm just a fan too.

[Xiomera]

He's Randy's agent . . . no one speaks so highly of Moss and goes as far as to defend his actions as Shasta.

[Shasta]

shasta are u telling me that culpepper isn't talented???

Product of Randy Moss. Every Bum ass QB they threw in the since moss was there has been amazing. Check the #'s of the backups that spelled the starters during that time.

[Twiddler]

Your not even worth the words. I don't know why people waste their time in such a manner and what is your relationship to Randy???????? We are all JUST fans. There is nothing wrong with not being a gm on this forum. And do YOU know how Randy acts personally. Put all the stuff you've said on this forum and just end it here. BACK YOUR WORDS UP and don't change the topic to me or anybody else.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

Ill take Randy Moss because of the 2 not only does he dominate games but his teammates actually like him.

[Shasta]

Ill take Randy Moss because of the 2 not only does he dominate games but his teammates actually like him.

The eagles players said they like TO... so where are you going with that.

[Twiddler]

where are you going with this???????? the guy just defended you and randy moss. And yes he is the best in the game right now. And could you say how you are related to moss cuz all us "fans" wanna know.

[P-L]

I have a question. Does Shasta agree with anyone or does he just change his opinions so he can disagree with everyone? Just wondering?

[DHVF]

Ill take Randy Moss because of the 2 not only does he dominate games but his teammates actually like him.I don't think that Matt Birk likes Randy. I also think he pi**** a lot of other teammates off by leaving the field early.

[NYr8rman]

This Shasta guy is alright...I like his point of view.

[DHVF]

This Shasta guy is alright...I like his point of view.U R kidding me, right?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :?

[EdReedUnstoppable]

why everybody hatin on Shasta, but anywho any teammate of Owens once he isnt on there team says what a jerk he is at least some of Moss's former teammates say he is a good dude.

[Craigo16]

Thats not the point. Any receiver is better than Moss and TO in my opinion.

Well you and ever NFL coach/scout/and GM have completely different veiwpoints. Did you see the NFL draft Special on sports center today? they asked the same quesiton to a handful of NFL coaches and they all said they would love to have both of them in a heart beat. This is why i dont respect your opinion. You are just a Fan

Its not a queston of talent. They are the most talented receivers in the league. The only problem is that they are both cancer's to their respective teams. TO bashing McNabb and demanding more money . . . Moss walking off the field and constantly getting fined . . . not the type of guy I would want on my team. Guys like Torry Holt and Hines Ward are better becasue they are only a slight step down in talent from TO and Moss, but they come without the character issues and all the hassel.

Its my opinion, just the same as any of your opinions. You don't have to agree with it, but you don't have to bash it.

1) read the quotes about him "bashing" McNabb i wouldnt call it "bashing"
2) we dont know if he is demanding more money or not there is no official word on that
3) THE GAME WAS OVER
4) Him getting fined doesnt matter, he cant Fake moon? come on.
5) He isnt the type of player that you would want on your team. Well guess what you are not an NFL coach. NFL coaches, GM's and Owners do want those players on their team.
6) Ward and Hold couldnt hold Moss's Jock
7) Every NFL corner would agree with #6
8) You dont even know these guys the media paints the piture they want.

I agree 100%. Both those players so called character issues are blown out of proportion by the media. They both are constantly in the spotlight, and any slight problem, and it gets twisted into a HUGE deal. If Holt or Ward did something similair, nobody would care, cause those guys "cant hold Moss's jock".

Im sick of the bashing of Moss. This guy has matured greatly throught the last 3 years. He fakes a moon and all of the sudden hes a cancer... give me a break!

[Twiddler]

The main thing that we are talking about is respect of other peoples opinions. Yes i respect shasta's opinion and i agree that randy is a great receiver i just think shasta needs to watch how he talks about other people since we are all entitled to our own opinion. Just lighten up on your criticism of other peoples opinions shasta. That's just all that is being asked. And everyone else will do the same.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

Well Shasta is gone now so dont worry about him and get back to the topic and how Randy Moss is better than TO.

[Twiddler]

I'm gonna have to go with randy just because a player with attitude problems is better in this case than a player who is considering sitting out. Randy definitely brings a lot to the table and TO is bringing nothing now.

[bxbanger]

This is ignorant, the only thing Moss has that TO lacks is the speed to go up top. T.O goes over the middle, not Moss. T.O never takes a play off, Moss only works when his number is called. And if TO didn't make the Eagles, look at his stats and compare it to the rest of his WR teammates. So what he said McNabb got tired, was he lying??? Freddie Mitchell had to call the plays in the huddle for him cause he couldn't catch his breath. Is he wrong for refusing to show loyalty to owners who show no loyalty the players. There is a reason the owner don't want guarenteed contracts. This is a bussiness so don't hate on TO for handling his.You may not like his tactics or like him as a person, but anyone who dosen't see his talent over Moss can't be watching football.

[detknowitall]

Moss may be an ass, but at least he never claimed to be anything else, and he never went back on his word from what I can remember.

[scorchin]

T.O. is good,but there is only one Randy moss.The guy is in a class by himself.Not even rice has put up the same numbers as moss in the same time frame.That says alot.As an all around reciever I would take hines ward or even in his day rod smith was ans still is a good all around wideout.

[detknowitall]

Hines Ward......Now thats a complete package reciever. Talent, physical, fast, good attitude and a nice guy to boot.

[Finz99]

Dude Shasta..your way off. No way the Raiders win more than 11 games like you are saying. Their defense sucks...and I mean sucks. Yea their offense is good, but its no match to the Colts. The colts have a better RB, and QB. Kerry Collins can throw, but he is not that good of a QB IMO. You obviously have a biased towards Randy Moss or something because you are blind to the fact that he has one of the worst attitudes in the NFL. I'm not saying he isnt amazing, because he is easily the best WR today and can change games in an instance, but I dont see how you can say he doesnt have an attitude.

[Xiomera]

Dude Shasta..your way off.

Shasta is gone, your arguing with no one, lol 8)

[Finz99]

haha yea I just noticed that he wrote what he said a while back.....whoops. :lol:

[HalfMan-HalfAmazing]

Top 10 WR's
1.Randy Moss
2.Marvin Harrison
3.Terrel Owens
4.Torry Holt
5.Chad Johnson
6.Hines Ward
7.Andre Johnson
8.Mushim Muhammed
9.Javon Walker
10.Anquan Boldin

[EdReedUnstoppable]

I put Derrick Mason above Javon Walker, Anquan Boldin, and Andre Johnson.

[scorchin]

Top ten is hard to do when you still have guys like bruce in the league and other guys who are great but just play in a different system.I don't think I could make a top 10 list unless it's just on receptions and yards.To me the best are guys like Hines Ward who do everything from blocking to being just a possession reciever or even being a decoy.There is alot to being a great wideout in the nfl.

[Helpless]

Its moss by far it shouldnt even be asked

[Banana]

TO

I'd rather have Moss, but it's close...

[newkwhy]

Moss is running away with this.

[Twiddler]

it was TO for me but now you have to go with the player who is actually willing to play.

[DHVF]

The results for this are pretty stunning IMO.

[Helpless]

Ask any DB in the NFL and they'll all say Moss.

[bsaza2358]

Again, I'd rather have TO for my team's system. He's a better West Coast-style WR. He's also thicker and has more elusiveness in the open field. His need to be the face of the team and jealousy and the way he's handled himself this offseason have not made me happy. However, if he comes back and plays hard, I will not be upset with him.

Moss is the most physically gifted WR ever. His attitude is less than desireable. I don't like his selfishness and don't like his work ethic on the field. If you take plays off, I will not respect you. If you take plays off and brag about it, I will loathe you.

I think both guys are incredible, but both have attitude issues. It's just a case of who you hate less and why really. Anyone would love to have either on his team.

[Ward]

I think both guys are incredible, but both have attitude issues. It's just a case of who you hate less and why really. Anyone would love to have either on his team.

Nailed it. I happen to hate Moss less. We were gonna draft him, but instead we got Greg Ellis...now Moss pays us back by lighting us up every time we play.

[newkwhy]

I think both guys are incredible, but both have attitude issues. It's just a case of who you hate less and why really. Anyone would love to have either on his team.

Nailed it. I happen to hate Moss less. We were gonna draft him, but instead we got Greg Ellis...now Moss pays us back by lighting us up every time we play.

Everytime I think about Moss as a Cowboy, I want to cry. He's just another player we've passed by on this ten year trek to find a DE.

[Ward]

I think both guys are incredible, but both have attitude issues. It's just a case of who you hate less and why really. Anyone would love to have either on his team.

Nailed it. I happen to hate Moss less. We were gonna draft him, but instead we got Greg Ellis...now Moss pays us back by lighting us up every time we play.

Everytime I think about Moss as a Cowboy, I want to cry. He's just another player we've passed by on this ten year trek to find a DE.

You have to wonder if he would have even been as big a nut case if we had drafted him. Kinda like Merriman.

[DHVF]

Didn't the Cowboys promise to take Randy? HAHAHAHA! :lol:

[Ward]

Didn't the Cowboys promise to take Randy? HAHAHAHA! :lol:

Yeah that's what I'm saying. How much of his antics are because he was bitter he wasn't chosen by America's team after they told him they'd select him? We'll never know... :cry:

[scorchin]

probably would have been worse!I'd say he'd probably want to be part of the cocaine cowboys!Besides they haven't been Americas team since Landry!

[Ward]

probably would have been worse!I'd say he'd probably want to be part of the cocaine cowboys!Besides they haven't been Americas team since Landry!

I can't wait till you're gone.

[detknowitall]

I can't wait till you're gone.

WOW :shock: From a mod.

As for the debate with talent and capabilities its T.O. because of his run blocking ability. But as a GM or owner I'll take Moss. less headaches make him a more valuable, and when the 2 guys are neck and neck with very little separating them. Ill take the guy that has a problem with authority over the ego trip mental case who just loves to see his own fae on ESPN.

[Helpless]

I can't wait till you're gone.

WOW :shock: From a mod.

As for the debate with talent and capabilities its T.O. because of his run blocking ability. But as a GM or owner I'll take Moss. less headaches make him a more valuable, and when the 2 guys are neck and neck with very little separating them. Ill take the guy that has a problem with authority over the ego trip mental case who just loves to see his own fae on ESPN.

Enough praise of moss Yes he is the best WR and most dangerous offensive player (outside of peyton) in the game.

That being said he is a criminal and Terrell Owens is a better person, infact TO is a better person than alot of people in the NFL, for example everyone on the Ravens

[Ward]

The Ravens have nothing to do with who is better, Moss or TO. Don't try to drag other people through the mud to make your point.

[Helpless]

The Ravens have nothing to do with who is better, Moss or TO. Don't try to drag other people through the mud to make your point.

Yes i am dragging a Group of Felons through the mud, you got me. You wouldnt have that opinion if ray lewis and his buddies gave you a stabbing

[Ward]

The Ravens have nothing to do with who is better, Moss or TO. Don't try to drag other people through the mud to make your point.

Yes i am dragging a Group of Felons through the mud, you got me. You wouldnt have that opinion if ray lewis and his buddies gave you a stabbing

You're talking to a kid who grew up idolizing guys like Michael Irvin and Leon Lett, only to have them turn up in the news for cocaine. I know all about football playing felons. What guys do off the field is their business.

[Helpless]

The Ravens have nothing to do with who is better, Moss or TO. Don't try to drag other people through the mud to make your point.

Yes i am dragging a Group of Felons through the mud, you got me. You wouldnt have that opinion if ray lewis and his buddies gave you a stabbing

You're talking to a kid who grew up idolizing guys like Michael Irvin and Leon Lett, only to have them turn up in the news for cocaine. I know all about football playing felons. What guys do off the field is their business.

Good thinking, im sure you'd cheer is Bin Laden could catch a few TD's for your cowboys. (Maybe they should look into it, at 6'6" he might be the big play WR you guys need, and God (which isnt real btw) knows nobody could catch him)

[Ward]

Yeah, I sure would.

[nobodyinparticular]

Moss is a criminal? Who did he kill?

[djp]

He got caught with 'someone elses' pot' in that car he bumped a traffic officer with.

[nobodyinparticular]

He got caught with 'someone elses' pot' in that car he bumped a traffic officer with.

Yeah, he's terrible. It's not like 80% of all high schoolers smoke pot or anything...

[badgerbacker]

Helpless doesn't try to make points, he just tries to make people mad.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

Ward any chance Helpless could get banned he never says anything useful all he does is bash every team and he never lends anything good to any conversation.

[badgerbacker]

Ward any chance Helpless could get banned he never says anything useful all he does is bash every team and he never lends anything good to any conversation.
I second the motion to ban

[Ward]

Ward any chance Helpless could get banned he never says anything useful all he does is bash every team and he never lends anything good to any conversation.
I second the motion to ban

The fastest way to get someone in trouble is to complain to Scott, and come bearing lots of proof. At one point or another I've told Scott to ban just about all of you, so he doesn't take me seriously any more.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

Can I throw out a number of how many times you have asked him to ban me Ill say at least 10 am I on the right path.

[scorchin]

He just sent me a little reminder to be very nice!So I guess he takes you serious when it comes to people you don't like cause they don't have the same opinion as you do.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

I thinks its more about how you express your opinion scorch you sometimes have a tendancy to tear down other teams to express your opinion and that aint necessary me and you do it to each others teams sometimes but thats cause we got a understandin.

[Helpless]

He got caught with 'someone elses' pot' in that car he bumped a traffic officer with.

Im pretty anytime you get hit with something that weighs 4000lbs it isnt exactly getting Bumped

[Helpless]

I thinks its more about how you express your opinion scorch you sometimes have a tendancy to tear down other teams to express your opinion and that aint necessary me and you do it to each others teams sometimes but thats cause we got a understandin.

Everything i post is fact, and my opinions are far more educated than your opinions. "dont hate the playa, hate the game"

If i do recall i responded to the TO bashing (which really i dont care for TO anyhow OVERRATED) that he is not a criminal and threw out the names of some NFL people who are scum. The FACT is TO Is a good person.

[Xiomera]

I don't think he was talking to you . . .

[Xiomera]

The FACT is TO Is a good person.


HA! :P

[Helpless]

The FACT is TO Is a good person.


HA! :P

How isnt he, name one thing that he has ever done that proves he isnt a good person?


Exactly

[EdReedUnstoppable]

Helpless I wasnt talkin to you I was talkin to scorchin and your opinions are for more idiotic then mine not more educated or else you would know mister education that the Ravens aint criminals Ray Lewis found innocent, Suggs found innocent, the only one ever proven guilty was Jamal so I guess that means the team isnt criminals. And Im sure TO is a great person keep thinkin that.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

Callin out Jeff Garcia and accusin him of being *** probably not the nicest thing to do on a national standpoint.

[badgerbacker]

The FACT is TO Is a good person.


HA! :P

How isnt he, name one thing that he has ever done that proves he isnt a good person?


Exactly
Hold out after 1 year of a 7 year contract?
Complain about his quarterbacks/coaches?

[EdReedUnstoppable]

Go on television and lie to the American public sayin his contract couldnt feed his family. Unless he adopted an entire country of people his 40 mil will do just fine to feed him his family and his frinds and their families.

[Helpless]

The FACT is TO Is a good person.


HA! :P

How isnt he, name one thing that he has ever done that proves he isnt a good person?


Exactly
Hold out after 1 year of a 7 year contract?
Complain about his quarterbacks/coaches?

Wanting more money doesn’t make you a bad person and neither does calling it how you see it.

But of course wanting more money, makes you much worse then a person who hits traffic officers with cars while having weed in HIS car after getting kicked out of FSU for that. It isn’t as bad as being a major part in a coke deal, and of course is worse than murdering people, or at the very least obstructing justice.

[Helpless]

Go on television and lie to the American public sayin his contract couldnt feed his family. Unless he adopted an entire country of people his 40 mil will do just fine to feed him his family and his frinds and their families.

With the "10 to 15" Million that he might stand to lose, he could support another Generation of the Owens family, and its not like he has "skills" to make money after football, he is trying to get what he thinks he is worth, and hell if he were playing for another team, they might give it to him, to bad he has no chance of gettign it out of the eagles.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

Why do you bring up Ray and Jamal Lewis and Randy Moss nobody said they were good people but for you to say TO is a good person might be the most incorrect thing youve ever said.

[Helpless]

Why do you bring up Ray and Jamal Lewis and Randy Moss nobody said they were good people but for you to say TO is a good person might be the most incorrect thing youve ever said.

How isnt he?

Exactly

You are wrong and just hating.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

I think Ive given why I think he isnt a good person go back and read what I already put.

[Helpless]

I think Ive given why I think he isnt a good person go back and read what I already put.

Well thats what i called stupid

Its Official Wanting more money makes you a bad person.... I guess im a bad person and just about every other person on here is a bad person.

[EdReedUnstoppable]

No thats not what I said at all maybe you should go back read what I said and try to comprehend it better.

[Helpless]

No thats not what I said at all maybe you should go back read what I said and try to comprehend it better.

Look dont be bitter its understandable that an upright citizen like Owens wouldnt want to be in a locker room of convicted felons in balt.

[Twiddler]

cool down there helpless. this is a forum of opinions that are respected and you are showing a major lack of it now. please, you don't have to fight everything that someone else says. we've allready had that before and it never ends up being pretty. so save our time and just cool it down. we'll respect your opinion as long as you respect ours.

[detknowitall]

Helpless and scorchin are the same they both refuse to listen to others comments and opinions its pointless to argue with them because its not a debate. They have no way to defend their position other than to bash on others.

As for my Opinion neither Moss or T.O. are what I would call a good person. I'd prefer Moss because he doesnt bad mouth others so much as he just has a very inflated opinion of himself. I like that Moss doesnt care what other people think about him as a person, just as a player. Where as you have to hear about T.O. talking about how great he is all the time. Moss did hit an officer with his car and no it wasnt an accidental bump when you drive with them on your hood for 1/2 a block. As a individual I dont know T.O. Im just sick of hearing about him. So I hold my judgement for him as a person, as a football player he's talented but too much of an inflated ego and troublemaker. He wouldnt be welcome in my lockerroom.

As a sidenote the Ravens that went on trial were found not guilty. Not guilty and innocent are two totally different things* (see Michael Jackson).

Jamal Lewis was innocent if you review the case. he took the plea so that he could be back on the field this year. Had he risked it and been found guilty then he may have missed the next 2 years. Review the plea settlement he pleaded no contest not guilty to the charges at the plea hearing.

[detknowitall]

Oh yeah and wanting more money doesnt make you a bad person, signing a contract that you have no intention of honoring does.

[Helpless]

"Iod prefer Moss because he doesnt bad mouth others so much as he just has a very inflated opinion of himself. I like that Moss doesnt care what other people think about him as a person, just as a player. Where as you have to hear about T.O. talking about how great he is all the time. Moss did hit an officer with his car and no it wasnt an accidental bump when you drive with them on your hood for 1/2 a block. As a individual I dont know T.O. Im just sick of hearing about him. So I hold my judgement for him as a person, as a football player he's talented but too much of an inflated ego and troublemaker. He wouldnt be welcome in my lockerroom."


This is just an unedacted Opinion (what i seem to see from many of you people on this board, as the most knowledgable i will educate you.

1) Accidental? do you have any proof? also im pretty sure he was supposed to follow the orders of the traffic officer and not hit her with his car. Or have Weed in it BTW

2) TO talking about How Great he is all the time?...... when... its just that he gets the most media attention.

3) TO who came back to play in the superbowl wouldnt be allowed in your locker room but moss who walked out on his team and blamed the defense for losses would.

4) those are all stupid and uneducated opinions, you take moss because he is better dont make up crap to show how he is a better person than TO cause thats JUST NOT THE CASE>

5) If Jamal Lewis was not a star football player he would have spent years behind bars.

[detknowitall]

Helpless seems to have problems reading. Read a little slower and retain what is being said. I said that Moss dragging the officer was NOT AN ACCIDENT that driving for 1/2 a block with a traffic cop on your hood is NO ACCIDENT

T.O. talks about how great he is all the time, any time he's on camera. and the media eats it up because they know its starts controversy.

T.O. wouldnt be on my team in the first place so no he wouldnt come back to play in the superbowl on my team.

TO who came back to play in the superbowl wouldnt be allowed in your locker room but moss who walked out on his team and blamed the defense for losses would

See I told you the only way you defend is to attack other players.

Also I didnt say Moss walking off the field was right. But he didnt assign blacme to everyone else either he kept his mouth shut after the incident it was dealt with in house and not in the media regardless how hard the media tried to make a circus of it.

If Jamal Lewis wasnt a star football player he would have been offered a plea in exchange for his testimony against the other guys in the case. If he wasnt a star football player he would have been something else in life that may not have been able to afford the leagal team that he had. If he wasnt a football star he wouldnt have tried to arrange a plea bargain that would let him back on the field. If he wasnt a football star he probably would have fought it all the way because he wouldnt have had to take a deal to keep his schedule on track. Those are a lot of if's but wait heres some room...... with yours. Deal with the reality not the what if's.

Helpless really is helpless. Just read more slowly next time and you'll retain more. I tell that to my kids and it seems to work for them.
I said I wasnt going to say if T.O. was a better person than Moss because I dont know them personally. But from what Ive seen of them in the media, i dont have a good impression about either of them. But at least Moss has played nice with the management and other teammates.

[Helpless]

Ok so lets get this straight

Murdering people (ray lewis)
Dealing Coke (Jamal Lewis)
Running Over Cops (Randy Moss)

is better than wanting more money?

[nobodyinparticular]

Ok so lets get this straight

Murdering people (ray lewis)
Dealing Coke (Jamal Lewis)
Running Over Cops (Randy Moss)

is better than wanting more money?

Running over cops at what, 3 miles an hour? The cop wasn't even injured at all! And you compare that to a murderer? (which is something that Ray Lewis is not guilty of)

[vatech=accdomination]

Callin out Jeff Garcia and accusin him of being *** probably not the nicest thing to do on a national standpoint.

there is something that makes you a bad person, if he was ***, how come he was dating the playmate of the year?

[Ward]

Callin out Jeff Garcia and accusin him of being *** probably not the nicest thing to do on a national standpoint.

there is something that makes you a bad person, if he was ***, how come he was dating the playmate of the year?

Not only that, but that chick he was dating (playmate) got in a fight with another chick over Jeff. If that's what TO thinks is ***, then where do I sign up?

[P-L]

Callin out Jeff Garcia and accusin him of being *** probably not the nicest thing to do on a national standpoint.

there is something that makes you a bad person, if he was ***, how come he was dating the playmate of the year?

To cover it up... I'm not saying he is by any means I am just saying some people try and cover it up. Plus he wasn't dating her until after Owens said that about him...

[vatech=accdomination]

pats-lions, that was more directed at helpless

[P-L]

Oh sorry... Uh... Forget that last post of mine. Yeah Helpless why would Garcia be dating a hot girl if he was ***? Huh?

[Helpless]

Oh sorry... Uh... Forget that last post of mine. Yeah Helpless why would Garcia be dating a hot girl if he was ***? Huh?

If I recall "*** gov' Jim McGreevy was Married to an attractive lady... Guess why? TO COVER IT UP.

[Twiddler]

why exactly does it matter???? personal stuff of a player should have nothing to do with how they play and are viewed as a player and would you please bringing up the past with like ray and jamal lewis cuz i'm sure everyone is getting sick of hearing the same stuff about how jamal and ray are bad but TO could walk on water if he wanted to. You're just changing a perfectly normal conversation into an ugly one when you bring up past personal stuff.

[TitleTown088]

they are bolth idiots.

[Shane P. Hallam]

TO to both. He has less injury issues and actually tries when he's on the field. I think Moss will blow up this year, but TO, you know he's going to beast if he's on the field.

[HawkeyeFan]

Moss. He owns T.O.

[Moses]

T.O. is a much more complete receiver than Moss. As talented as Moss is, he only runs two routes.

[Shane P. Hallam]

T.O. is a much more complete receiver than Moss. As talented as Moss is, he only runs two routes.

Exactly, Moss has more "talent" but TO performs better on the field. He can block, he can jump up, go across the middle, everything, and usually stay healthy (the Roy collar was a freak thing).

[HawkeyeFan]

T.O. is a much more complete receiver than Moss. As talented as Moss is, he only runs two routes.Does TO even run routes? Or does he just go out and get open?

[Moses]

T.O. is a much more complete receiver than Moss. As talented as Moss is, he only runs two routes.Does TO even run routes? Or does he just go out and get open?

T.O. is a great route runner that can run basically any route with great effectiveness. Moss only runs flies and curls.

[HawkeyeFan]

T.O. is a much more complete receiver than Moss. As talented as Moss is, he only runs two routes.Does TO even run routes? Or does he just go out and get open?

T.O. is a great route runner that can run basically any route with great effectiveness. Moss only runs flies and curls.
Now thats BS, he is not a great route runner. He is the opposite of that. Torry Holt is a great route runner, TO is nothing like that.

[Moses]

T.O. is a much more complete receiver than Moss. As talented as Moss is, he only runs two routes.Does TO even run routes? Or does he just go out and get open?

T.O. is a great route runner that can run basically any route with great effectiveness. Moss only runs flies and curls.
Now thats BS, he is not a great route runner. He is the opposite of that. Torry Holt is a great route runner, TO is nothing like that.

Are you kidding me? :shock:

T.O. is one of the best route runners in the game. What do you think makes him so dominant?

[HawkeyeFan]

No way Owens is. What makes him dominate is his size and speed. Nto his route running ability. Because he has close to none, he can run the streak and slant. Thats all.

[Moses]

No way Owens is. What makes him dominate is his size and speed. Nto his route running ability. Because he has close to none, he can run the streak and slant. Thats all.

I can't believe you're saying this. First of all, T.O. is fast but he doesn't have ungoldy speed. I believe he ran a 4.5 40 and I think that's a pretty good indication of his speed. He does have good size and that is a definite bonus to his game. There are plenty of people with physical tools similar or greater than his but he still excels more. Why? Because he can run all the routes and plays 100% on every play. T.O. uses the whole field and runs solid, accurate, crisp routes.

[Texico From Mexico]

neither, but if I had to choose one it would be TO because of his work ethic. Moss has more natural talent than any receiver to ever play the game but he takes plays off, has a terrible work ethic and his route running leaves much to be desired. He just gets by on sheer physical talent and is happy to leave it that way.

TO is a mess off the field...cancer in the locker room but has Jerry Rice/ Michael Irvin like work ethic.

[HawkeyeFan]

No way Owens is. What makes him dominate is his size and speed. Nto his route running ability. Because he has close to none, he can run the streak and slant. Thats all.

I can't believe you're saying this. First of all, T.O. is fast but he doesn't have ungoldy speed. I believe he ran a 4.5 40 and I think that's a pretty good indication of his speed. He does have good size and that is a definite bonus to his game. There are plenty of people with physical tools similar or greater than his but he still excels more. Why? Because he can run all the routes and plays 100% on every play. T.O. uses the whole field and runs solid, accurate, crisp routes.
Ok TO isn't 100% on every play because if its a run he isnt' going to block every play. I give it to you that he runs solid routes but not great routes. 4.5 speed is good enough.

Thats all.

[Moses]

No way Owens is. What makes him dominate is his size and speed. Nto his route running ability. Because he has close to none, he can run the streak and slant. Thats all.

I can't believe you're saying this. First of all, T.O. is fast but he doesn't have ungoldy speed. I believe he ran a 4.5 40 and I think that's a pretty good indication of his speed. He does have good size and that is a definite bonus to his game. There are plenty of people with physical tools similar or greater than his but he still excels more. Why? Because he can run all the routes and plays 100% on every play. T.O. uses the whole field and runs solid, accurate, crisp routes.
Ok TO isn't 100% on every play because if its a run he isnt' going to block every play. I give it to you that he runs solid routes but not great routes. 4.5 speed is good enough.

Thats all.

T.O. is a great run blocker is quite willing. When he's on the field, you can't ask for more out of him. He's hard working and always steps up.

Ask anybody that watched Owens on a consistent basis: he is a great route runner. As people have mentioned, Owens has great work ethic and really spends time refining his route-running ability and it shows on the field.

[HawkeyeFan]

Yea he is a great blocker ... when he blocks, if he doesn't get over 5 catchs a game he isn't going to block because he will be "disrespected" and "hated".

[remix 6]

what games have u watched? Moss take shimself out of the game if he doesnt get his way. TO still goes hard until he does get it. TO is a better blocker, more physical, uses the whole field..not just sidelines on fade, harder to take down.

Moss..better speed..more of a 1 trick pony(basically hes used with 1 route..a fade and he catches it)

TO goes across middle.deep..short..

[duckseason]

The fact that Moss is dominating this poll is an embarrassing example of the overall ignorance level among members of this forum.

[Shiver]

The fact that Moss is dominating this poll is an embarrassing example of the overall ignorance level among members of this forum.


This is from July 2005.

[HawkeyeFan]

The fact that Moss is dominating this poll is an embarrassing example of the overall ignorance level among members of this forum.Of course you'd say that. Your a Cowboy fan. Now, before he signed with Dallas you'd say Moss. and don't lie.

[duckseason]

The fact that Moss is dominating this poll is an embarrassing example of the overall ignorance level among members of this forum.


This is from July 2005.

I would say T.O. back then, too.....but I guess alot of the people who voted aren't around anymore so I'll withdraw my comment above.

[duckseason]

The fact that Moss is dominating this poll is an embarrassing example of the overall ignorance level among members of this forum.Of course you'd say that. Your a Cowboy fan. Now, before he signed with Dallas you'd say Moss. and don't lie.

You obviously have no idea who you're speaking to. I've looked at Owens as the premier WR in football for years now. I'm not some ignorant homer. There are many WR's in the league today who I would snatch up well before I would consider Moss. I happen to value football players. Not selfish little one hit wonders. There's alot more to this game than just go routes and fades. TO (and many other WR's) excel at all aspects of the position. Moss is severely lacking in most areas.

[ChiBear]

Screw both of them, give me Moose.

[Moses]

Screw both of them, give me Moose.

Just what we need, another Chicago homer. :roll:

[HawkeyeFan]

Screw both of them, give me Moose.
Screw moose.

This who I'd take over any reciever today.
http://www.tornadopromotions.com/images/torry.jpg

Classiest player in the NFL.

[Gribble]

The fact that Moss is dominating this poll is an embarrassing example of the overall ignorance level among members of this forum.Of course you'd say that. Your a Cowboy fan. Now, before he signed with Dallas you'd say Moss. and don't lie.

You obviously have no idea who you're speaking to. I've looked at Owens as the premier WR in football for years now. I'm not some ignorant homer. There are many WR's in the league today who I would snatch up well before I would consider Moss. I happen to value football players. Not selfish little one hit wonders. There's alot more to this game than just go routes and fades. TO (and many other WR's) excel at all aspects of the position. Moss is severely lacking in most areas.

Amen.

[Texico From Mexico]

Listen, if Moss would get his head and heart in the game there is no telling what he could do. TO is a nut case who just happens to work his ass off.

[duckseason]

Listen, if Moss would get his head and heart in the game there is no telling what he could do. TO is a nut case who just happens to work his ass off.

I agree. Moss probably has the most talent of any WR right now. It's too bad so much of it goes untapped.

[Namy]

ahahah, I read through the first few pages of the thread... I'm sure Shasta feels stupid now, saying that "Raiders would win 11 games" that "TO is not a cancer, but an incorrect portrayal from the media". LMAO.

BUt in all seriousness, TO > Randy Moss. No quesiton. Randy has talent, but he doesn't understand the nuances of the position. Run deep, catch. THat's all he can do (although I will admit he may be the best ever with the deep ball). TO is a great talent who can do EVERYTHING. However, both players are head cases in their own special ways. THe most coveted WRs in the game now hasve to be Hines Ward or Chad Johnson.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Listen, if Moss would get his head and heart in the game there is no telling what he could do. TO is a nut case who just happens to work his ass off.

I agree. Moss probably has the most talent of any WR right now. It's too bad so much of it goes untapped.

While the past two years have been sub-par for Moss, his first 7 lead me to believe he is a better wideout than Owens.

[frogstomp]

Listen, if Moss would get his head and heart in the game there is no telling what he could do. TO is a nut case who just happens to work his ass off.

I agree. Moss probably has the most talent of any WR right now. It's too bad so much of it goes untapped.

While the past two years have been sub-par for Moss, his first 7 lead me to believe he is a better wideout than Owens.

Eggzactly.

[Bearsfan123]

TO, he may be a head case off the field, but he plays on it. Moss has a tendency to "decide" when he wants to play. TO always plays his heart out, and with his talent hes dominant. Moss can be the most dominant player in the league when he wants to be, but he just never does. Plus I dislike him because he has alligator arms. Give me Tom Waddle, a slow ass guy who will go over the middle and catch the ball, AND is a decent locker room guy.

Tom Waddle>TO and Moss

.... :lol: okay even i cant say that with a straight face

[jetvilma51]

TO=pussie
moss=pussie times 2

but if i had to choose between them id choose TO