PDA

View Full Version : Michael Vick to play pro football in 2009


SuperKevin
10-15-2008, 11:08 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/08/10/ufl/index.html

Just not in the NFL. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the UFL but it appears they are trying to really get the wheels moving for an August 2009 kickoff date. They have 6 teams already set up in LA, Las Vegas, Hartford, New York, Orlando, and San Francisco. They plan to go up head to head with the NFL except they will play their games on Fridays.

throwback54milkman
10-15-2008, 11:30 PM
come back to the NFL! the Bengals will take him.

SuperKevin
10-15-2008, 11:35 PM
I can see Pac Man Jones, Odell Thurman, and Michael Vick all wearing UFL jerseys in 2009

Dr. Gonzo
10-15-2008, 11:37 PM
It is a solid move on the part of both Vick and the UFL. I watched the XFL and I might as well give the UFL a shot. Say what you will about Vick (I personally think he is a horrible QB) but he is damn exciting to watch.

Brent
10-15-2008, 11:41 PM
I dont care what league it is, I just love watching football. ****, it's the reason I watch Arena League (go Desperadoes).

Shane P. Hallam
10-15-2008, 11:44 PM
Is this the one where Tim Couch was drafted in the first?

MarioPalmer
10-15-2008, 11:48 PM
come back to the NFL! the Bengals will take him.

A no we won't. Carson is our guy, not some dog killer. We have a real NFL QB, not some runner who plays QB. There is no comparison and I can't believe you'd even make a statment like that.

Bruce Banner
10-15-2008, 11:59 PM
A no we won't. Carson is our guy, not some dog killer. We have a real NFL QB, not some runner who plays QB. There is no comparison and I can't believe you'd even make a statment like that.

Vick could be utilized in multiple positions.

MarioPalmer
10-16-2008, 12:07 AM
Vick could be utilized in multiple positions.

Yeah but I think he was implying that he play QB, or at least thats how I read it. BUt he would be an excellent H-back who can take a hand off or go out on a screen. Get him the ball in space and see what he could do. But as a QB for the Bengals, that will never happen, plus I think his lame attempt at a joke because of the Bengals past morons was in poor taste and even lamer in terms of humor.

Bruce Banner
10-16-2008, 12:08 AM
I agree. Vick in space is lethal. I wonder where most people would rank him on a list of the top open field runners of all time.

MarioPalmer
10-16-2008, 12:27 AM
I agree. Vick in space is lethal. I wonder where most people would rank him on a list of the top open field runners of all time.


Him along with Gale Sayers and Barry Sanders and Steve Smith could be some of the best in the open space. I would also put Devin Hester in that catagory if I could see him make the same moves after a reception that I see him make during a kick or punt return.

DragonFireKai
10-16-2008, 12:46 AM
They plan to go up head to head with the NFL except they will play their games on Fridays.

Idiotic move. They're making the same mistake the USFL made, only they're doing it right off the bat, as opposed to waiting a few years.

XxXdragonXxX
10-16-2008, 01:40 AM
I can see Pac Man Jones, Odell Thurman, and Michael Vick all wearing UFL jerseys in 2009


Well, the way players are getting suspended from the NFL these days, this league could actually have some decent talent.

yourfavestoner
10-16-2008, 03:01 AM
A no we won't. Carson is our guy, not some dog killer. We have a real NFL QB, not some runner who plays QB. There is no comparison and I can't believe you'd even make a statment like that.

Michael Vick has had way more playoff success than Palmer without half the talent around him.

I can't wait to see him back on the field. I'll always love Mike Vick.

diabsoule
10-16-2008, 03:06 AM
I hope the Hartford team calls themselves the Whalers.

Ness
10-16-2008, 03:15 AM
Michael Vick has had way more playoff success than Palmer without half the talent around him.

I can't wait to see him back on the field. I'll always love Mike Vick.

That's because Vick also had a running game for several seasons...and Atlanta's defense was never as bad as the Bengals during those years. Vick's targets probably would have shined better if he could actually pass the ball consistently well. Not surprising Roddy White actually looks like a good receiver now.

yourfavestoner
10-16-2008, 03:25 AM
That's because Vick also had a running game for several seasons...and Atlanta's defense was never as bad as the Bengals during those years. Vick's targets probably would have shined better if he could actually pass the ball consistently well. Not surprising Roddy White actually looks like a good receiver now.

I'd buy that argument, except we all saw how abysmally bad the Falcons were in 2003. In his first year starting, Vick took a talentless Falcons team on his back and led them to a playoff win at Lambeau, Favre's first ever postseason defeat there. The next year, he broke his leg in the preseason and the Falcons showed how bad they really were, finishing at 5-11.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-16-2008, 05:05 AM
Michael Vick has had way more playoff success than Palmer without half the talent around him.

I can't wait to see him back on the field. I'll always love Mike Vick.

Yes.

That's because Vick also had a running game for several seasons...and Atlanta's defense was never as bad as the Bengals during those years. Vick's targets probably would have shined better if he could actually pass the ball consistently well. Not surprising Roddy White actually looks like a good receiver now.


Yeah, not like Roddy White was raw or anything. I mean look at all the success his other targets went onto have when they escaped the evil claws of Mike Vick bringing them down. Dez White, Brian Finnernan, Michael Jenkins, Peerless Price, etc.

Bengalsrocket
10-16-2008, 06:56 AM
Comparing Michael Vick and Carson Palmer is really stupid imo. Needless to say, its like comparing apples and oranges.

Job
10-16-2008, 07:12 AM
Is this the one where Tim Couch was drafted in the first?

I believe that one was named the NFL.

illmatic74
10-16-2008, 10:38 AM
A no we won't. Carson is our guy, not some dog killer. We have a real NFL QB, not some runner who plays QB. There is no comparison and I can't believe you'd even make a statment like that.
Palmer with the 69.0 QB Rating who is 0-3 that Palmer.

Twiddler
10-16-2008, 10:44 AM
Palmer with the 69.0 QB Rating who is 0-3 that Palmer.

Way to look at the big picture and not jump to ridiculous conclusions.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 10:45 AM
I hope the Hartford team calls themselves the Whalers.

Hartford? The Whaler? An opportunity like that comes along once, maybe twice in a lifetime.

MarioPalmer
10-16-2008, 11:24 AM
Palmer with the 69.0 QB Rating who is 0-3 that Palmer.

You keep thinking that, its not even debatable to who is the better NFL QB. I guess though there will always be those people that bought into the whole Michael Vick experience. I guess your the same ones that didn't have a problem with him shooting dogs in the head with a pistol or the same ones who don't get offended that he drowned animals in a barrell of water. But hey, I guess he is better than Palmer in all aspects of life.

No offense, but you might want to give up argueing for a runner that played QB and a person that is lower than life itself. At least Palmer is a person of integrity, at least Palmer doesn't have to make excuses after 5 years of why he can't progress, at least Palmer goes into every game with the entire weight of a city on his back and never, not once made excuses or got mad at the fans for being upset. At least Palmer has respect for the game, his team mates, coaching staff and most importantly himself. But I guess you didn't know that because you bought a pair of sneakers and thought that a bunch of cool Nike commercials made a man and a player. But whatever kid, keep making yourself look immature and pointless.

Menardo75
10-16-2008, 11:25 AM
I think Vick will eventually be back in the NFL someone will take a chance on him.

MarioPalmer
10-16-2008, 11:26 AM
Hartford? The Whaler? An opportunity like that comes along once, maybe twice in a lifetime.

Its actually the "Whale", but good Ol'Mallrats.....classic B movie. One of the more under rated Kevin Smith films...lol

"He likes to have sex in uncomfortable places......like where? In the back of a Volkswagon?"....lol.classic :)

yourfavestoner
10-16-2008, 12:19 PM
You keep thinking that, its not even debatable to who is the better NFL QB. I guess though there will always be those people that bought into the whole Michael Vick experience. I guess your the same ones that didn't have a problem with him shooting dogs in the head with a pistol or the same ones who don't get offended that he drowned animals in a barrell of water. But hey, I guess he is better than Palmer in all aspects of life.

No offense, but you might want to give up argueing for a runner that played QB and a person that is lower than life itself. At least Palmer is a person of integrity, at least Palmer doesn't have to make excuses after 5 years of why he can't progress, at least Palmer goes into every game with the entire weight of a city on his back and never, not once made excuses or got mad at the fans for being upset. At least Palmer has respect for the game, his team mates, coaching staff and most importantly himself. But I guess you didn't know that because you bought a pair of sneakers and thought that a bunch of cool Nike commercials made a man and a player. But whatever kid, keep making yourself look immature and pointless.

Dude, I know you like Carson, but try not to take things so personally.

MarioPalmer
10-16-2008, 12:25 PM
Dude, I know you like Carson, but try not to take things so personally.

Bro, there is no comparison. It's not about being a Carson homer, but it's about giving respect to people who carry themselves with respect. Why would I rep Michael Vick? What has he done to gain mine or anyones respect? Play in a couple of playoff games, make some fancy commercials have his own shoe? I'm sorry but his off the field problems directly effect my opinion of him and for that I have no respect for the man. I don't care what he did or how talented he was, it was all for nothing in my view. And the more people rep him and cheer for him the lesser I think of them for actually overlooking his actions. He is a scum bag, a pure and utter scum bag that deserved much more than he got. Maybe someone should waterboard him and see how it feels to be drowning.

yourfavestoner
10-16-2008, 12:35 PM
Bro, there is no comparison. It's not about being a Carson homer, but it's about giving respect to people who carry themselves with respect. Why would I rep Michael Vick? What has he done to gain mine or anyones respect? Play in a couple of playoff games, make some fancy commercials have his own shoe? I'm sorry but his off the field problems directly effect my opinion of him and for that I have no respect for the man. I don't care what he did or how talented he was, it was all for nothing in my view. And the more people rep him and cheer for him the lesser I think of them for actually overlooking his actions. He is a scum bag, a pure and utter scum bag that deserved much more than he got. Maybe someone should waterboard him and see how it feels to be drowning.

What makes him any more of a scum bag than Brett Favre? They both kill animals for entertainment.

I am the beast
10-16-2008, 02:21 PM
Bro, there is no comparison. It's not about being a Carson homer, but it's about giving respect to people who carry themselves with respect. Why would I rep Michael Vick? What has he done to gain mine or anyones respect? Play in a couple of playoff games, make some fancy commercials have his own shoe? I'm sorry but his off the field problems directly effect my opinion of him and for that I have no respect for the man. I don't care what he did or how talented he was, it was all for nothing in my view. And the more people rep him and cheer for him the lesser I think of them for actually overlooking his actions. He is a scum bag, a pure and utter scum bag that deserved much more than he got. Maybe someone should waterboard him and see how it feels to be drowning.

Nice bro-logic.

Don't impose YOUR morals on others. Personally, I could care less that Vick killed some dogs, just like I don't care that the meat I eat everyday is slaughtered in an inhumane manner.

Vick is a great player and he's already left a lasting legacy on the league. Call him a scumbag all you want but it doesn't change the fact that he was special with a football in his hand.

Of course, you're the type who (like yourfavestoner said) probably thinks Brett Favre is a stand-up human being despite being an animal-murderer and drug-abuser. But hey, he's white and fits more neatly into your web of social stigmas so I can hardly be surprised.

Twiddler
10-16-2008, 02:36 PM
Nice bro-logic.

Don't impose YOUR morals on others. Personally, I could care less that Vick killed some dogs, just like I don't care that the meat I eat everyday is slaughtered in an inhumane manner.

Vick is a great player and he's already left a lasting legacy on the league. Call him a scumbag all you want but it doesn't change the fact that he was special with a football in his hand.

Of course, you're the type who (like yourfavestoner said) probably thinks Brett Favre is a stand-up human being despite being an animal-murderer and drug-abuser. But hey, he's white and fits more neatly into your web of social stigmas so I can hardly be surprised.

Nice job of not imposing your morals on anybody...

brat316
10-16-2008, 02:46 PM
WHoooooo Vick will be back. I think the UFL could be used for those UDF who want to make a name. Its all the same rules, and I think it will be less stupid unlike XFL which i did watch. UFL could be used like a NFLE, way for teams to scout UDFA players without going to far.

You might be able to find a hand full of players ever year. But hey it helps increase the chances of those guys who are trying to into the NFL.


I just wonder how they are planning on broadcasting it. And also will UFL have X-NFL convict team. Consisting of Pack, Odell, Vick, Maruice-he is in jail though, plenty of other guys.

ChezPower4
10-16-2008, 02:50 PM
Nice bro-logic.

Don't impose YOUR morals on others. Personally, I could care less that Vick killed some dogs, just like I don't care that the meat I eat everyday is slaughtered in an inhumane manner.

Vick is a great player and he's already left a lasting legacy on the league. Call him a scumbag all you want but it doesn't change the fact that he was special with a football in his hand.

Of course, you're the type who (like yourfavestoner said) probably thinks Brett Favre is a stand-up human being despite being an animal-murderer and drug-abuser. But hey, he's white and fits more neatly into your web of social stigmas so I can hardly be surprised.


Hunting is much diffrent than executing innocent dogs. Your logic make no sense and that to compare hunting to killing fighting dogs is insane.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 02:50 PM
Is this the one where Tim Couch was drafted in the first?
Wasnt it Chris leak?

I am the beast
10-16-2008, 02:55 PM
Hunting is much diffrent than executing innocent dogs. Your logic make no sense and that to compare hunting to killing fighting dogs is insane.

According to your morals it is insane. Some people think killing an insect is a big deal. Others don't. Some people think sawing a cow's head off while it's alive is a big deal. Other's don't. Some people think stuffing thousands of chicken into a tiny room and pumping them full of steroids is a big deal. Other's don't.

The point is that just because YOU don't think something is "right" doesn't mean everybody else feels that way. Why are dogs innocent but livestock is fair game? It's all perception. It just happens that Vick did something that goes against what many people have been socially-conditioned to believe is right.

Why should that change what he did on the football field?

Prowler
10-16-2008, 02:58 PM
that league could actually be pretty fun to watch. nfl europe without the nfl oversight and located in the US. i'd watch college guys and nfl scrubs try to tackle vick.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 03:00 PM
Its actually the "Whale", but good Ol'Mallrats.....classic B movie. One of the more under rated Kevin Smith films...lol

"He likes to have sex in uncomfortable places......like where? In the back of a Volkswagon?"....lol.classic :)

Shh.. I knew it was the whale. I tried to stretch it a little bit so someone might get it.

That running gag was A+.

That girl is SIXTEEN.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-16-2008, 03:01 PM
Hunting is much diffrent than executing innocent dogs. Your logic make no sense and that to compare hunting to killing fighting dogs is insane.


I know you are a Packers fan, but come on. I guess that animal Favre killed and hung up in his teammates locker to get some chuckles was a guilty animal.

Turtlepower
10-16-2008, 03:03 PM
Does everybody remember when every Mike Vick thread would get locked? I guess history tends to repeat itself.

yourfavestoner
10-16-2008, 03:48 PM
Hunting is much diffrent than executing innocent dogs. Your logic make no sense and that to compare hunting to killing fighting dogs is insane.

How, exactly, is it any different?

Bruce Banner
10-16-2008, 03:50 PM
How, exactly, is it any different?

Because laws say so. Too bad.

Shane P. Hallam
10-16-2008, 03:51 PM
What happened to the AAFL?

That was the league I was thinking of. Bryan Randall, Crouch, Akili Smith all drafted into it.

Bruce Banner
10-16-2008, 03:53 PM
What happened to the AAFL?

Still around. I think.

http://www.allamericanfootballleague.com/

Postponed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_American_Football_League

ChezPower4
10-16-2008, 03:53 PM
How, exactly, is it any different?

When I go hunt, I don't just shoot a deer or an Elk just to kill it or because I felt like it. I Shoot it to eat it, I get use out of it. Vick killed those dogs because they were bad fighters, he got no use out of them and he could have put those dogs up for adoption insted of killing them. Plus fighting dogs is illegal as well animal creulty i.e killing them for no reason.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 03:54 PM
postponed again to 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_American_Football_League

I am the beast
10-16-2008, 04:00 PM
When I go hunt, I don't just shoot a deer or an Elk just to kill it or because I felt like it. I Shoot it to eat it, I get use out of it. Vick killed those dogs because they were bad fighters, he got no use out of them and he could have put those dogs up for adoption insted of killing them. Plus fighting dogs is illegal as well animal creulty i.e killing them for no reason.

You shoot it to eat it. Could you not just become a vegetarian? Yes, you could. So basically you eat meat because you like to. It's entertainment.

Why does Vick kill dogs? Entertainment.

If you eat meat, you have blood on your hands, period. Also, most of the time that meat is acquires using factory farming techniques which are about as cruel as you can be to an animal.

But hey, social-conditioning won't allow you to see the logic in this so I don't know why I'm bothering.

Shane P. Hallam
10-16-2008, 04:00 PM
Let's please get back on topic.

brat316
10-16-2008, 04:00 PM
Whats going to be better AFL or UFL

brat316
10-16-2008, 04:01 PM
Let's please get back on topic.

Drop the Hammer on them.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 04:07 PM
ufl if they get vick. they'd be able to market better and get more money and better stuff. atleast with cuban's team. it's chris leak vs mike vick.

yourfavestoner
10-16-2008, 04:35 PM
Because laws say so. Too bad.

Any that's the only thing separating them. Legality. If you look at them on a moral scope, the two acts really have no difference. It's the murder of a defenseless animal for entertainment.

Look at this way: tobacco products are completely legal in the US. Is a cigarette "better" simply because it's legal? Absolutely not.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 04:54 PM
Shh.. I knew it was the whale. I tried to stretch it a little bit so someone might get it.

That running gag was A+.

That girl is SIXTEEN.
She was fifteen!

BamaFalcon59
10-16-2008, 04:59 PM
Whats going to be better AFL or UFL

The AFL had a GREAT idea with the teams getting their regions players rights out of college (Alabama gets rights to Bama players, Arkansas to Arkansas players, etc) along with the regular draft. That was awesome.

But as far as talent, it will come down to which league has more financial backing.

SuperKevin
10-16-2008, 08:03 PM
Each team is supposed to have like a 30 million dollar salary cap. Each owner will be required to spend 50 million up front with the rest of the price being covered by the league. Each team is also rumored to be going public so you or I could by stock in the teams.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 08:06 PM
Each team is supposed to have like a 30 million dollar salary cap. Each owner will be required to spend 50 million up front with the rest of the price being covered by the league. Each team is also rumored to be going public so you or I could by stock in the teams.

How would that work?

Could i by the majority shares of a team?

BamaFalcon59
10-16-2008, 08:08 PM
Each team is supposed to have like a 30 million dollar salary cap. Each owner will be required to spend 50 million up front with the rest of the price being covered by the league. Each team is also rumored to be going public so you or I could by stock in the teams.

30 mil cap isn't bad at all. This may just work. Friday games though? No. I say play in the NFL offseason on Sundays, just like the American Football League.

MarioPalmer
10-16-2008, 08:10 PM
Nice bro-logic.

Don't impose YOUR morals on others. Personally, I could care less that Vick killed some dogs, just like I don't care that the meat I eat everyday is slaughtered in an inhumane manner.

Vick is a great player and he's already left a lasting legacy on the league. Call him a scumbag all you want but it doesn't change the fact that he was special with a football in his hand.

Of course, you're the type who (like yourfavestoner said) probably thinks Brett Favre is a stand-up human being despite being an animal-murderer and drug-abuser. But hey, he's white and fits more neatly into your web of social stigmas so I can hardly be surprised.

Nice try but not good enough to sway me. First, I never defended Favre, 2nd to try and use the race card is insane and it shows that you really have no tread for your argument. In fact you making the assumption that I don't like black QB's are quite disgraceful and will force me to ignore you for the rest of my time here. Lastly, to try and compare hunting, which by the way I don't like, to drowning dogs with your bare hands, rapping them in a "rap stand", forcing runts of the liter to be sacrificial “lambs” for so called worthy gladiators, leaving the animals' untreated wounds to become infected, beating the animal if he/she should not want to fight, abusing the animal for long periods of time to make the animal meaner, penning up the dog with others in cages with more than 80% of the cage filled with feces, bringing in lesser and more docile dogs for the trainer to train the fighter on how to kill, and I can go on, to the equivalent to slaughter houses, hunting, and other forms of animal consumption just makes you come out of this argument as ignorant as there can be. There is no comparison, but you keep going though life thinking that.

If this is someone you want to defend be my guest, but you will now be completely and utterly irrelevent to me on this site. I would appreciate you never posting in one of my threads and never responding to one of my posts. I will make sure I never post in any of your threads not to mention comment or quote one of your posts.

I am the beast
10-16-2008, 08:36 PM
Nice try but not good enough to sway me. First, I never defended Favre, 2nd to try and use the race card is insane and it shows that you really have no tread for your argument. In fact you making the assumption that I don't like black QB's are quite disgraceful and will force me to ignore you for the rest of my time here. Lastly, to try and compare hunting, which by the way I don't like, to drowning dogs with your bare hands, rapping them in a "rap stand", forcing runts of the liter to be sacrificial “lambs” for so called worthy gladiators, leaving the animals' untreated wounds to become infected, beating the animal if he/she should not want to fight, abusing the animal for long periods of time to make the animal meaner, penning up the dog with others in cages with more than 80% of the cage filled with feces, bringing in lesser and more docile dogs for the trainer to train the fighter on how to kill, and I can go on, to the equivalent to slaughter houses, hunting, and other forms of animal consumption just makes you come out of this argument as ignorant as there can be. There is no comparison, but you keep going though life thinking that.

If this is someone you want to defend be my guest, but you will now be completely and utterly irrelevent to me on this site. I would appreciate you never posting in one of my threads and never responding to one of my posts. I will make sure I never post in any of your threads not to mention comment or quote one of your posts.

I'm heartbroken.

SuperKevin
10-16-2008, 08:38 PM
30 mil cap isn't bad at all. This may just work. Friday games though? No. I say play in the NFL offseason on Sundays, just like the American Football League.

The problem with playing in the offseason is that people may not be interested in football in the spring and summer. It's primarily baseball season. Plus you might have an issue with heat playing in cities like Las Vegas in May.

BamaFalcon59
10-16-2008, 08:40 PM
That's true. But to play on Friday sounds like it would be difficult to attract viewers.

SuperKevin
10-16-2008, 08:43 PM
That's true. But to play on Friday sounds like it would be difficult to attract viewers.

As long as tickets are affordable they could do a killing in attendance. Take a date out to dinner and a football game on Friday nights.

illmatic74
10-16-2008, 08:55 PM
Other than the friday night games they need some way to distinguish themselves. Any ideas?

ChezPower4
10-16-2008, 08:57 PM
As long as tickets are affordable they could do a killing in attendance. Take a date out to dinner and a football game on Friday nights.

I think having games while high school games are going on is really dumb

brat316
10-16-2008, 09:49 PM
I think having games while high school games are going on is really dumb

maybe if your a student in HS or have kids that go to HS. A state team vs a whole lot of town teams and multiple city HS. Its easier for a fan to cheer for a state team. And they would also have more competition if they choose to play on Sat with all the college teams playing. They could have picked mid week but to many TV shows on to compete with.

SuperKevin
10-16-2008, 09:50 PM
Other than the friday night games they need some way to distinguish themselves. Any ideas?

They don't need to be gimmicky like the XFL. Just offering quality football in markets that the NFL is not currently in is enough

Xonraider
10-16-2008, 10:14 PM
I think having games while high school games are going on is really dumb

So is making it on Sundays and Saturdays when there's NFL and NCAA... unless its during their offseason, which I somehow doubt.

DragonFireKai
10-16-2008, 10:19 PM
Any that's the only thing separating them. Legality. If you look at them on a moral scope, the two acts really have no difference. It's the murder of a defenseless animal for entertainment.

Look at this way: tobacco products are completely legal in the US. Is a cigarette "better" simply because it's legal? Absolutely not.

I would say the fundamental legal differences between the two is that hunting is monitored by the government and helps curb natural animal overpopulation, and that hunters strive for a clean kill, while dog fighting strives for maximum violence. A hollowpoint round through the major organs is a much quicker, and less painful death than being ripped apart by a pitbulls fangs.

Furthermore, I think that the fundamental moral difference is thefact that an animal being hunted can escape. Dog fighting present the same overall chance of survival as a boxed hunt, they're going to die, it's just a matter of when. I think that fundamental difference is important. I abhor boxed hunts and dog fights for the same reason.

I am the beast
10-16-2008, 10:25 PM
I would say the fundamental legal differences between the two is that hunting is monitored by the government and helps curb natural animal overpopulation, and that hunters strive for a clean kill, while dog fighting strives for maximum violence. A hollowpoint round through the major organs is a much quicker, and less painful death than being ripped apart by a pitbulls fangs.

Furthermore, I think that the fundamental moral difference is thefact that an animal being hunted can escape. Dog fighting present the same overall chance of survival as a boxed hunt, they're going to die, it's just a matter of when. I think that fundamental difference is important. I abhor boxed hunts and dog fights for the same reason.

Do you eat meat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FH8AQzk4HM

I guess since it's not YOU who's doing the dirty work it's OK though.

DragonFireKai
10-16-2008, 10:58 PM
Do you eat meat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FH8AQzk4HM

I guess since it's not YOU who's doing the dirty work it's OK though.

Funny you should mention that. When I lived in the wiregrass, I worked in the ConAgra broiler processing plant in Enterprise. I still eat chicken. That video you put together missed some of the more stomache churning parts of the plant.

But anyways, trying to justify dog fighting by making it comperable to food is laughable. Humans are omnivores. We need to eat both meat and plant life to sustain a healthy life. Just as a diet of exclusively meat will eventually cause significant health side effects due to Vitamin C defficiency, so will a diet completely excluding meat lead to serious health complications due to Vitamin B12 defficiency. Eating meat is needed for a healthy life. It's behavior seen throughout the animal kingdom. Dog fighting, however, has no such parallel. I guess you could say that it's one of those things that seperate us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

Bruce Banner
10-16-2008, 11:08 PM
Don't bother Dragon.

Take the high road!

Bengalsrocket
10-17-2008, 12:45 AM
Not trying to take the fun out of your debate but, morals are subjective guys.

There are many moral debates in our world now that any two people could argue to the teeth (The death penalty, torture, abortion etc.) and in the end both sides would be back to square one without even the slightest change in opinion.

However with dog fighting I think you would have a hard time arguing with a rational human being that dog fighting is a good thing. It's not like dog fighting has any monetary value and I believe that America has plenty of entertainment outlets that we could afford to miss out on this one. Meanwhile animal cruelty is unjust and holds no warrant whatsoever.

Also, when we talk about hunting are we speaking of a traditional sense where someone would use all or most of the parts of an animal body for needs or are we speaking in a more modern sense like its a sport?

Either way I think both are better than dog fighting on a moral stand point, but hunting for sport is still wrong in my opinion.

brat316
10-17-2008, 01:04 AM
Not trying to take the fun out of your debate but, morals are subjective guys.

There are many moral debates in our world now that any two people could argue to the teeth (The death penalty, torture, abortion etc.) and in the end both sides would be back to square one without even the slightest change in opinion.

However with dog fighting I think you would have a hard time arguing with a rational human being that dog fighting is a good thing. It's not like dog fighting has any monetary value and I believe that America has plenty of entertainment outlets that we could afford to miss out on this one. Meanwhile animal cruelty is unjust and holds no warrant whatsoever.

Also, when we talk about hunting are we speaking of a traditional sense where someone would use all or most of the parts of an animal body for needs or are we speaking in a more modern sense like its a sport?

Either way I think both are better than dog fighting on a moral stand point, but hunting for sport is still wrong in my opinion.

This isn't about dog fighting or morals' its about Vick playing, The UFL and The AFL

Bengalsrocket
10-17-2008, 01:48 AM
This isn't about dog fighting or morals' its about Vick playing, The UFL and The AFL

Good point. In that regard, I'm excited to watch Vick play despite it being against a league that will more than likely be a lot less talented.

I hope the UFL succeeds because I feel like it could be a solid stepping stone for less talented players to bring their game to the next level.

yourfavestoner
10-17-2008, 03:00 AM
Yup. Good arguments though. Actually made the board interesting for a couple days.

CJSchneider
10-17-2008, 05:14 AM
UFL and AFL, while sounding exciting will end up being like all the other NFL duplicates (USFL, Arena, WLAF); not as good as the NFL.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 08:52 AM
UFL and AFL, while sounding exciting will end up being like all the other NFL duplicates (USFL, Arena, WLAF); not as good as the NFL.

Yes but when the CBA stalls lock out the NFL in 2011 or whenever its supposed to happen, the UFL will be the only game in town.

I am the beast
10-17-2008, 03:08 PM
Funny you should mention that. When I lived in the wiregrass, I worked in the ConAgra broiler processing plant in Enterprise. I still eat chicken. That video you put together missed some of the more stomache churning parts of the plant.

But anyways, trying to justify dog fighting by making it comperable to food is laughable. Humans are omnivores. We need to eat both meat and plant life to sustain a healthy life. Just as a diet of exclusively meat will eventually cause significant health side effects due to Vitamin C defficiency, so will a diet completely excluding meat lead to serious health complications due to Vitamin B12 defficiency. Eating meat is needed for a healthy life. It's behavior seen throughout the animal kingdom. Dog fighting, however, has no such parallel. I guess you could say that it's one of those things that seperate us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

You need to eat meat to be healthy? Have you ever heard of a vegetarian? You can absolutely live healthily without eating a single piece of meat.

Further, would you support what Vick did if he ate the dogs afterwards?

Also, how can you say there is no parallel in the animal kingdom? Dog fighting existed long before humans ever got the idea to do it. The dogs did it themselves!

ChezPower4
10-17-2008, 03:20 PM
You need to eat meat to be healthy? Have you ever heard of a vegetarian? You can absolutely live healthily without eating a single piece of meat.

Further, would you support what Vick did if he ate the dogs afterwards?

Also, how can you say there is no parallel in the animal kingdom? Dog fighting existed long before humans ever got the idea to do it. The dogs did it themselves!

would you? Even if he was killing the dogs to eat them it is still illegal. He would still be in jail, eating dogs is not ok in our culture because we think of pets i.e dogs a being apart of our family. They eat dogs in china because they don't veiw dogs as pets. Kinda like bugs we don't eat them in the U.S because we think that they are gross, but other cultures eat bugs as a very big part of their diet. Eating the dogs that he killed would have made zero diffrence on what happed to him, in fact i think that had vick eaten the dogs, It would make me think that Vick is F***ing crazy.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 03:28 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/08/10/ufl/index.html

Just not in the NFL. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the UFL but it appears they are trying to really get the wheels moving for an August 2009 kickoff date. They have 6 teams already set up in LA, Las Vegas, Hartford, New York, Orlando, and San Francisco. They plan to go up head to head with the NFL except they will play their games on Fridays.

If Vick somehow gets out of jail and beats the state charges, he's going to try to play in the NFL not the UFL.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 03:34 PM
A no we won't. Carson is our guy, not some dog killer. We have a real NFL QB, not some runner who plays QB. There is no comparison and I can't believe you'd even make a statment like that.

Yeah because Carson Palmer has looked awesome this year.

ChezPower4
10-17-2008, 03:42 PM
Yeah because Carson Palmer has looked awesome this year.

Palmers been hurt and has no run game, nor has his o-line played well this year. Are you saying that you'd rather have Vick over Palmer?

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 03:49 PM
If Vick somehow gets out of jail and beats the state charges, he's going to try to play in the NFL not the UFL.

He's already suspended for all of 2009 season as well with a possibility of not being reinstated in 2010. He'd be an idiot to think a team would sign him in 2010 after 3 years away from the game

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:00 PM
He's already suspended for all of 2009 season as well with a possibility of not being reinstated in 2010. He'd be an idiot to think a team would sign him in 2010 after 3 years away from the game

LOL. He's NOT already suspended for the 2009 season. You just completely made that up.

You'd be ignorant of history to think that he can't come back after missing 3 years of football. Chris Redman, Tommy Maddox, Todd Collins all did it and none of those guys are as talented as Vick.

If he stays in shape none of his abilities should diminish.

Palmers been hurt and has no run game, nor has his o-line played well this year. Are you saying that you'd rather have Vick over Palmer?

For that Bengals team? Absolutely. That's what made Vick so special. He could win with garbage around him because of his improvisational skills.

Getting Vick on the move with guys like TJ Houshmanzedah and Chad Johnson?

The Bengals would at least be at .500 right now. At least. Vick also opened up the running game. The Falcons lead the league 3 straight years in rushing because of him. They would have set a record of that feat if he didn't get convicted.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 04:02 PM
LOL. He's NOT already suspended for the 2009 season. You just completely made that up.

You'd be ignorant of history to think that he can't come back after missing 3 years of football. Chris Redman, Tommy Maddox, Todd Collins all did it and none of those guys are as talented as Vick.

If he stays in shape none of his abilities should diminish..

Saw it in an article. I'll try to find it.

Edit. My apologies. The article I provided says in all likelyhood he'll be suspended for all of 2009 and given Goddell's track record I feel confident that will be the case.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:03 PM
Saw it in an article. I'll try to find it.

Good luck finding it because it does not exist.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3148767

What is the league's position?
Commissioner Roger Goodell doesn't have to do anything until 2009, when Vick should be clear of his legal problems for dogfighting. It's similar to the Tank Johnson situation. Johnson, former defensive tackle of the Chicago Bears, served 45 days in jail on a misdemeanor weapons charge. After he was released from jail May 13, Johnson met with Goodell and was suspended for eight games. He's now playing with the Dallas Cowboys. Once Vick is out of prison, he will meet with Goodell to discuss a return to the NFL and a possible league suspension. The earliest possible meeting is May 2009.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 04:04 PM
Good luck finding it because it does not exist.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3148767

What is the league's position?
Commissioner Roger Goodell doesn't have to do anything until 2009, when Vick should be clear of his legal problems for dogfighting. It's similar to the Tank Johnson situation. Johnson, former defensive tackle of the Chicago Bears, served 45 days in jail on a misdemeanor weapons charge. After he was released from jail May 13, Johnson met with Goodell and was suspended for eight games. He's now playing with the Dallas Cowboys. Once Vick is out of prison, he will meet with Goodell to discuss a return to the NFL and a possible league suspension. The earliest possible meeting is May 2009.

if you think Goodell will let him walk right back into the league you're nieve. Heck Odell Thurman has been out for 2 years for a missed drug test and a DUI

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:05 PM
The article I provided says in all likelyhood he'll be suspended for all of 2009 and given Goddell's track record I feel confident that will be the case.

I feel the opposite. I think because Vick was a 1st time offender, Goddell will show mercy. At the most he gets suspended 1/4 of the season.

The only guys Goddell has suspended for the year have been guys who were repeat offenders.

He will probably only kick Vick out of the league or at least for the season if he gets in any legal trouble afterwards.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:06 PM
if you think Goodell will let him walk right back into the league you're nieve. Heck Odell Thurman has been out for 2 years for a missed drug test and a DUI

Let's look at Odell Thurman's rap sheet:

Odell Thurman was suspended by the National Football League for the first four games of the 2006 regular season for violating the league's substance abuse policy. According to sources,Odell Thurman did not return to Cincinnati in time and failed to take the test. [2], [3]
Gerard said there were two other Bengals players in the car with Thurman, but he did not name them. The car belonged to "another Bengal," not Thurman, Gerard said. [4]
On September 27, 2006, the NFL extended Thurman's suspension for the remainder of the season as a result of the arrest. [5] Thurman's locker was emptied by the Bengals organization. Coach Marvin Lewis said he didn't want to see Odell Thurman anywhere near the stadium, and he then deactivated Chris Henry for the next game for being part of the incident. Lewis later stated that he didn't expect Thurman to play for the Bengals in 2007

On February 21, 2007, Thurman pleaded no contest to the driving drunk charge and said he was undergoing treatment for alcohol abuse.[

On May 15th, 2007, Bengals' head coach Marvin Lewis told ESPN that Thurman would have the chance to return to the team, if reinstated by the NFL. Thurman was eligible for reinstatement on July 11, 2007. It was suspected that the organization would cut Thurman from the roster, but Lewis said otherwise. [7]
On June 5th, however, ESPN reported that he was wanted for assault in Georgia, for alleged kicking and hitting two men. Thurman and his brother were sought for questioning in connection with this assault. The sherriff involved in the case said that the incident was not quickly reported and that a magistrate would choose whether or not to continue with the charges on June 8th 2007. Conflicting reports from witnesses at the party where the assault allegedly occurred however may make prosecution of this case difficult. [8]
On June 8th, 2007, papers seeking to dismiss the charges stated above were filed, and charges against the linebacker were summarily dropped. Chrissy Pitts, deputy clerk of Magistrate Court in Jasper County, said "It was settled, we aren’t aware of any terms that were involved in the settlement. That was between the attorneys and the parties.” [9]
On July 25th, 2007, Thurman's request for re-instatement into the NFL was denied by commissioner Roger Goodell, so he was not able to play in 2007[10]. Thurman is not currently listed on the Bengals' active roster, and another Bengals player, fellow linebacker Corey Mays, currently wears his uniform number.
On July 12, 2008, Thurman was indicted by a grand jury for breaking another man's jaw at a waterpark in Sandusky, Ohio during the previous month, though he was not arrested on the scene.[11]

NFL Reinstatement
On January 28th 2008, The NFL cleared linebacker Odell Thurman to resume working out with the Cincinnati Bengals, a step toward reinstatement from his two-year suspension.[citation needed]
Thurman was reinstated by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on April 21, 2008. "Odell has met the NFL's conditions for reinstatement and has been added to our offseason roster," said Bengals coach Marvin Lewis. [12]
On May 19th 2008, the Cincinnati Bengals waived Thurman, after Head Coach Marvin Lewis stated that the team "had not seen the right steps taken by him." However, Thurman's representatives reported that the move was related to Thurman missing Offseason Training Activities (OTA's), which are not mandatory according to the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement.[13]
On June 2, 2008, Sports Illustrated reported Odell, recently cut by the Bengals, had failed his second drug test in 3 seasons. [14]
On June 6, 2008, ESPN reported Odell had been suspended by the NFL indefinitely. As part of the ruling, Thurman cannot apply for reinstatement until after the 2008 season. [15]


Just like Chris Henry
Since his college days at West Virginia University, Chris Henry has had a checkered off-field reputation. He also had several on-field incidents. During his redshirt sophomore season, he was ejected from a game at Rutgers University due to multiple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and was suspended for the season finale against the University of Pittsburgh.
• December 15, 2005: Henry was pulled over in Northern Kentucky for speeding. During a search, marijuana was found in his shoes. He was also driving without a valid driver's license or valid insurance.
• January 30, 2006: Henry was arrested in Orlando, Florida for multiple gun charges including concealment and aggravated assault with a firearm.[15] He was reported to have been wearing his #15 Bengals jersey at the time of his arrest. Henry pleaded guilty and avoided jail time in both cases.
• May 4, 2006: Cincinnati media reported that Henry was being investigated by Covington, Kentucky police in connection with a sex crime which allegedly occurred in a Covington hotel room in the early morning of April 30, 2006. No charges have yet been filed, and on May 24, 2006, Covington police reported that there is no proof anything happened and that the alleged victim might have concocted the story and may face charges for filing a false police report.
• June 3, 2006: Chris Henry was pulled over outside on Interstate 275 at 1:18 a.m by Ohio Highway Patrol trooper Michael Shimko. At 2:06 a.m. Henry voluntarily submitted to a breathalyzer test at Milford Police Department and registered a .092 blood-alcohol level, .012 above the level permitted in the state of Ohio.[16]
• September 25, 2006: Bengals linebacker Odell Thurman was pulled over for driving under the influence. The truck Thurman was driving belonged to rookie quarterback/receiver Reggie McNeal. Neither McNeal nor Henry, who were passengers, were charged with any wrongdoing by authorities. However, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis suspended Henry for the Bengals game against the New England Patriots.
• October 6, 2006: Henry was suspended by the NFL for two games for violating the league's personal conduct and substance abuse policies. NFL policies forbid Henry from taking part in practices, however, he was allowed to attend any team meetings. Henry missed the Bengals' October 15, 2006 game at Tampa Bay and their October 22, 2006 home game versus Carolina.[17]
• January 25, 2007: Henry plead guilty to charges of providing alcohol to minors, an incident that occurred at a hotel in the spring in 2006. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail, with all but two of those days being suspended.[18]
• April 10, 2007: Henry was suspended for the first eight games of the 2007 NFL season for violations of the NFL's personal conduct policy.[10] His suspension comes with a stern warning that future misconduct may result in the end of his career with the NFL. Henry was given permission by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to begin practicing fully.[19] His suspension was lifted and he played in the November 11, 2007 game versus the Baltimore Ravens, amassing 4 catches for 99 yards.
• May 18, 2007: It was reported by the Cincinnati Enquirer that Henry allegedly failed a court-mandated drug test. The report showed that he had taken an opiate, but the result was later proven to be false. The failed drug test would have been the third violation of the NFL's substance abuse policy. A third violation, per league rules, results in a one-year suspension. In addition to having his suspension increased to 24 games, he would have had to serve an 88 day jail sentence.[20] As of May 23, 2007, the State of Kentucky has reported that Henry in fact did NOT fail a drug test, and that earlier reports to the contrary are erroneous.
• June 12, 2007: Henry allegedly assaulted a 16-year-old boy with teammate Reggie McNeal. The claims were later reported to be unfounded[21] and Henry and McNeal have been exonerated.
• November 6, 2007: Henry allegedly assaulted a valet attendant at Newport on the Levee.[22]
• December 3, 2007: Henry arrested for the second time in Orlando, Florida for violating his probation he was on from a January 30, 2006 arrest. On February 21, 2008 he was found not guilty. On February 26, 2008, a motion to terminate probation in Orange County, Florida was denied.
• March 31, 2008: Henry was alleged to have punched a man named Gregory Meyer, 18, and thrown a beer bottle through the window of his car. Henry claimed it was a case of mistaken identity and also that he thought it was somebody else that owed him money.[23] Henry was waived by the Bengals a day after this arrest and was then forced to serve a house arrest sentence.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 04:08 PM
None of those guys had the public trial and prision sentence that Vick did. The league will continue to see huge protest from animal rights groups if they allow Vick back immediately. Goodell seems pretty adamant about not attracting negative attention to the league right now.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:13 PM
None of those guys had the public trial and prision sentence that Vick did. The league will continue to see huge protest from animal rights groups if they allow Vick back immediately. Goodell seems pretty adamant about not attracting negative attention to the league right now.

Exactly. Vick was humiliated. He's paying his debt to society. He had and lost everything in a span of a few months.

If you think he will ban Vick because of PETA that is wishful thinking.


It was still only ONE trial. It was ONE incident.


Those guys broke the NFL code of conduct policy SEVERAL times. Just take a look at those laundry lists.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 04:17 PM
Exactly. Vick was humiliated. He's paying his debt to society. He had and lost everything in a span of a few months.

If you think he will ban Vick because of PETA that is wishful thinking.


It was still only ONE trial. It was ONE incident.


Those guys broke the NFL code of conduct policy SEVERAL times. Just take a look at those laundry lists.

I'm not saying it'll be a lifetime ban but I can concievably see him being suspended for all of 2009. With that said, if Vick can get a chance to sign a one year deal to play in this UFL he'd be a fool not to take it. Heck it might even be best for him to become the face of an entire league as opposed to potentially never starting another football game again in the NFL.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:19 PM
I'm not saying it'll be a lifetime ban but I can concievably see him being suspended for all of 2009. With that said, if Vick can get a chance to sign a one year deal to play in this UFL he'd be a fool not to take it. Heck it might even be best for him to become the face of an entire league as opposed to potentially never starting another football game again in the NFL.

First of all, Vick will be fortunate to get out of prison in 2009 which would mean he beats the state charges.

But if he does somehow beat them, he would be foolish not to try to go back to the NFL.

Why in the world would the UFL be his first choice???


Sure it's a great backup plan. But clearly the NFL should be his first option. Not some start up league for washed up players like Tim Couch.


If Vick is still in shape he is way too good for that league. The QB play in the NFL is not very good. There are never more than a handful or two of good starters.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 04:21 PM
First of all, Vick will be fortunate to get out of prison in 2009 which would mean he beats the state charges.

But if he does somehow beat them, he would be foolish not to try to go back to the NFL.

Why in the world would the UFL be his first choice???


Sure it's a great backup plan. But clearly the NFL should be his first option.

Because it'd be a guarenteed starting job and the ability to have an entire league's advertising built directly around him. I guarentee there aren't a ton of teams beating down Michael Vick's doors looking to hand over a starting QB job to him right now.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 04:22 PM
If Vick is still in shape he is way too good for that league. The QB play in the NFL is not very good. There are never more than a handful or two of good starters.

Vick was not a good NFL starter either. As a QB he was one of the worst in the league. It was only his ability to run that made people overlook that.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:22 PM
Because it'd be a guarenteed starting job and the ability to have an entire league's advertising built directly around him. I guarentee there aren't a ton of teams beating down Michael Vick's doors looking to hand over a starting QB job to him right now.

It doesn't have to be a "ton" of teams. Doesn't have to be 2/3 of the league like it was after the 2002 season.

But I guarantee you there is at least a handful that would take him. Have you looked at some of the QBs that are starting in this league lately?

BlindSite
10-17-2008, 04:23 PM
Vick was not a good NFL starter either. As a QB he was one of the worst in the league. It was only his ability to run that made people overlook that.

IF he could put NFL calibre corners, linebackers and safeties out of their shoes, he can do it to scrubs.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:26 PM
Vick was not a good NFL starter either. As a QB he was one of the worst in the league. It was only his ability to run that made people overlook that.

And the ignorance starts to show. Vick was top 10 in the league in PASSING TDs his last year in the league. BTW, his ability to RUN was part of him being QB.

Not like those yards and TDs didn't count.


That's like saying that Shaq was only good because he was so big. You can't take away someone's strength.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 04:29 PM
And the ignorance starts to show. Vick was top 10 in the league in PASSING TDs his last year in the league.

His career passer rating of 75.7 begs to differ. Also his completion percentage of 53.8% is disgusting.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:36 PM
His career passer rating of 75.7 begs to differ. Also his completion percentage of 53.8% is disgusting.

LOL shows you how overrated that stat is. Tim Couch had a career rating of 75.1.

Joey Harrington had a rating of 77.2 last year. Boy was he a more effective QB than Vick for the Falcons last year.

Even better Chris Redman had a rating of 90.4 last year. Man he must be 5x better than Vick.

BTW, completion percentage is tied heavily to that formula. And that stat is just as overrated because it doesn't take into account drops, throw aways, circus catches, and when you got a QB like Vick who doesn't throw the dumpoffs that boost that stat but instead runs for the yardage himself.


Completion percentage doesn't do jack. It's about total yardage and TDs that move the chains and put points on the board. Vick was top 10 in the league in both. That's why he was also top 10 in win percentage.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 04:45 PM
LOL shows you how overrated that stat is. Tim Couch had a career rating of 75.1.

Joey Harrington had a rating of 77.2 last year. Boy was he a more effective QB than Vick for the Falcons last year.

Even better Chris Redman had a rating of 90.4 last year. Man he must be 5x better than Vick.

BTW, completion percentage is tied heavily to that formula. And that stat is just as overrated because it doesn't take into account drops, throw aways, circus catches, and when you got a QB like Vick who doesn't throw the dumpoffs that boost that stat but instead runs for the yardage himself.


Completion percentage doesn't do jack. It's about total yardage and TDs that move the chains and put points on the board. Vick was top 10 in the league in both. That's why he was also top 10 in win percentage.

Completion percentage doesn't mean jack? That must be why the Titans are rushing to get Vince Young back in the lineup. Oh wait they aren't.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:48 PM
Completion percentage doesn't mean jack? That must be why the Titans are rushing to get Vince Young back in the lineup. Oh wait they aren't.

Has nothing to do with completion percentage and everything to do with the fact that the guy can't throw more TDs than INTs to save his life. Which further proves my point.

Same reason why Vikings made the switch.

Kerry Collins and Gus Frerotte are managing the game. Another way of saying not losing the game by hurting the team with silly turnovers. Letting the defense win the game.

illmatic74
10-17-2008, 06:02 PM
Has nothing to do with completion percentage and everything to do with the fact that the guy can't throw more TDs than INTs to save his life. Which further proves my point.

Same reason why Vikings made the switch.

Kerry Collins and Gus Frerotte are managing the game. Another way of saying not losing the game by hurting the team with silly turnovers. Letting the defense win the game. Kerry Collins is getting his Trent Dilfer on.

TheBuffaloBills
10-17-2008, 07:13 PM
I really wonder what shape Vick is in. I heard he was benching over 400 in prison.

SuperKevin
10-17-2008, 07:33 PM
I really wonder what shape Vick is in. I heard he was benching over 400 in prison.

Coincidentally I heard that's how much his cellmate weighs

robert pancake gallery
10-18-2008, 10:57 PM
everyone knows that animals you hunt don't have feelings but dogs do... huntings just a nice friendly sport but dogfighting theres animals actually getting hurt and dying

Shiver
10-19-2008, 12:32 AM
LOL shows you how overrated that stat is. Tim Couch had a career rating of 75.1.

Joey Harrington had a rating of 77.2 last year. Boy was he a more effective QB than Vick for the Falcons last year.

Even better Chris Redman had a rating of 90.4 last year. Man he must be 5x better than Vick.

BTW, completion percentage is tied heavily to that formula. And that stat is just as overrated because it doesn't take into account drops, throw aways, circus catches, and when you got a QB like Vick who doesn't throw the dumpoffs that boost that stat but instead runs for the yardage himself.


Completion percentage doesn't do jack. It's about total yardage and TDs that move the chains and put points on the board. Vick was top 10 in the league in both. That's why he was also top 10 in win percentage.


Stop stealing my four year old talking points!

BBIB
10-19-2008, 05:15 PM
everyone knows that animals you hunt don't have feelings but dogs do... huntings just a nice friendly sport but dogfighting theres animals actually getting hurt and dying

I love the argument that hunting is more moral because the animal at least has a chance to survive.

First of all, most dogs that fight don't die.

Second of all, what type of ridiculous argument is that?

If Im a serial sniper, do I get a pass by the law because the people I went after at least had a chance to survive unlike people I captured and tortured?

Or if I kill a mass amount of people with one single shots instead of torturing them to death, can I get a pass?


But seriously, I don't want to turn this thread into that argument because it goes on forever.

BamaFalcon59
10-19-2008, 05:16 PM
I love the argument that hunting is more moral because the animal at least has a chance to survive.

First of all, most dogs that fight don't die.

Second of all, what type of ridiculous argument is that?


If Im a serial sniper, do I get a pass by the law because the people I went after at least had a chance to survive unlike people I captured and tortured?

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

BBIB
10-19-2008, 05:17 PM
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

Lol yeah I know. It was pretty funny too. It just humors me that there are people who think like that. THey don't state that but it's behind their logic