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View Full Version : Troy Polamalu says "Fines make it a Pansy Game"


awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 10:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac-JYp25Bx0&feature=related

edit: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3646392

MetSox17
10-16-2008, 11:00 AM
Boo fines.

illmatic74
10-16-2008, 11:01 AM
In 10 years they will be playing flag football.

CC.SD
10-16-2008, 11:02 AM
He could actually get fined for this.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 11:05 AM
He could actually get fined for this.

****.

Troy is gonna go broke!

HawkeyeFan
10-16-2008, 11:06 AM
As much as I think Troy is overrated. I have earned mad respect for him saying this publicly.

CC.SD
10-16-2008, 11:08 AM
As much as I think Troy is overrated. I have earned mad respect for him saying this publicly.

Don't hate on Troy, he's allowed to take a couple years off after winning the Super Bowl.

#1chiefs_fan
10-16-2008, 11:09 AM
He must of set aside $25,000 dollars before he said that.

Menardo75
10-16-2008, 11:16 AM
That is awesome Troy good man.

DeathbyStat
10-16-2008, 11:45 AM
My man Troy...great...plus he has the best commercial in tv

Twiddler
10-16-2008, 11:51 AM
Nice to see someone saying it, hopefully he has his checkbook out though...

FlyingElvis
10-16-2008, 12:57 PM
He's right. The current "don't touch anyone or you'll be fined" trend of the NFL is total crap. Let the players play the damn game.

drowe
10-16-2008, 01:05 PM
He could actually get fined for this.

i hope troy loves irony.

Twiddler
10-16-2008, 01:09 PM
i hope troy loves irony.

I know Chad does...

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f251/mixed01/chad_johnson_sign.jpg

D-Unit
10-16-2008, 01:29 PM
Troy is wrong. Times have changed. The game has changed. Players have changed. ...and most of all, the money has changed. Goddell is doing the right thing by protecting players, protecting the game and protecting the NFL's bank account.

ChezPower4
10-16-2008, 01:31 PM
Lets go back to the rules when Dick "night train" Lane played..... That would would be sweet :D

FlyingElvis
10-16-2008, 01:36 PM
Troy is wrong. Times have changed. The game has changed. Players have changed. ...and most of all, the money has changed. Goddell is doing the right thing by protecting players, protecting the game and protecting the NFL's bank account.

Um, isn't this exactly what Troy is complaining about? He's saying it's about the money & protecting the NFL. That's 2 out of the 3 things you say are happening, but you say Troy is wrong.

Don't make that no sense. :confused: lol

I'd bet Troy knows there is some truth to the NFL's concerns for player safety. His comments, imo, seem to be leaning towards the NFL veiling some of the latter 2 parts as "player safety" when it's really not about player safety.

Brent
10-16-2008, 01:36 PM
Lets go back to the rules when Dick "night train" Lane played..... That would would be sweet :D
head tackling for all!

MidwayMonster31
10-16-2008, 01:47 PM
Some things have to be protected, like helmet to helmet hits and chop blocks. Anything that could cause permanent injury. But I don't think Ward should've gotten fined for what he did. It is getting out of control, but not as out of control as roughing the passer from a few years ago.

diabsoule
10-16-2008, 02:19 PM
Um, isn't this exactly what Troy is complaining about? He's saying it's about the money & protecting the NFL. That's 2 out of the 3 things you say are happening, but you say Troy is wrong.

Don't make that no sense. :confused: lol

I'd bet Troy knows there is some truth to the NFL's concerns for player safety. His comments, imo, seem to be leaning towards the NFL veiling some of the latter 2 parts as "player safety" when it's really not about player safety.

Aw, jeez, you questioned D-Unit. Prepare to have fire and brimstone follow you for about a week.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 02:31 PM
head tackling for all!

No fair catches or halo rules for all!

diabsoule
10-16-2008, 02:34 PM
No fair catches or halo rules for all!

So, turn the NFL into the XFL? Brilliant!

ShutDwn
10-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Troy is wrong. Times have changed. The game has changed. Players have changed. ...and most of all, the money has changed. Goddell is doing the right thing by protecting players, protecting the game and protecting the NFL's bank account.

I wish they could really protect the players but lets be honest, what is going through, what is going through a safeties mind as a receiver catches the ball? is it " I need to lay these guy out and make him lose it" or is it " I need to hit this guy, but not hard enough to be fined"?

The way the league is going, players will be thinking the second way more, and that won't be good, because then we will deal with the argument that players are quitting and not laying out for their team.

I think it is interesting about what Troy said about some of the greats. They are one of a kind for sure, but soon enough that type of player (Lott, Butkus etc) will be illegal.

I don't like the contradictions the NFL is making with some of these guys. Guys like Hines Ward are always brought up as the hardest players and guys who play to the whistle and go 100%.

The NFL is going to force players into being like what people would accuse Randy Moss of being.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 02:48 PM
head tackling for all!
Roy Williams would be able to tackle anyone. Awesome

Bearsfan123
10-16-2008, 02:54 PM
ive always like Polamalu but now he is one of my favorite safeties in the NFL. Someone who will stand up for the Defense.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 02:54 PM
i'm with troy, give me a break with all these fines. this game is about hitting people. with the excessive fining, atleast create a 'premium fines club' where you can just pay $250,000 at the beginning of the season and then go out on the field and basically kill people, wear whatever jersey you want, and dance however you want to dance.

Bruce Banner
10-16-2008, 02:55 PM
He needs a haircut.

brat316
10-16-2008, 02:59 PM
DId you guys see the video on ESPN with Mark Shlerth(sp)? That was hilarious, telling it how it was. They sell a video of NFL greatest hits, but they fine people for making those hits.

Turtlepower
10-16-2008, 03:00 PM
The average lifespan of an NFL player is 62. Anything to extend that I support.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 03:07 PM
i'm with the helping people live longer, but you can't take people's money like that. i'd rather they just suspend players for a quarter. forget these fines. the rules are so ambigious anyway and can't always be called consistently. if something is blatent then just sit them out. hines was always in control of himself.

Turtlepower
10-16-2008, 03:11 PM
i'm with the helping people live longer, but you can't take people's money like that. i'd rather they just suspend players for a quarter. forget these fines. the rules are so ambigious anyway and can't always be called consistently. if something is blatent then just sit them out. hines was always in control of himself.

Suspending players for quarters/halves/games would cost them more money than petty fines. You would hear a lot more players speak up if that were the case.

Shane P. Hallam
10-16-2008, 03:14 PM
Troy is wrong. Times have changed. The game has changed. Players have changed. ...and most of all, the money has changed. Goddell is doing the right thing by protecting players, protecting the game and protecting the NFL's bank account.

Exactly. That makes Troy right. Times have changed, and Goddell is protecting plays, and that is making it a pansy game.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 03:21 PM
i'm with the helping people live longer, but you can't take people's money like that. i'd rather they just suspend players for a quarter. forget these fines. the rules are so ambigious anyway and can't always be called consistently. if something is blatent then just sit them out. hines was always in control of himself.


Why can't you take peoples money like that? Companies can't dock your pay for bad behavior?

Jesus christ. What sense of entitlement everyone has. And if people are bitching about how much the fines are, they haven't been looking at the sheets.

Who gets fined the most? The ones making 3mil + 25k here and 25k there won't break the bank like troy says. You'd have to rack up 120 25k fines... And if you racked up 120 fines. You wouldn't be playing anyway because your coaching staff would be like, You're a tool.

Anyway. So what if the NFL is a pansy league, it's trying to protect its workers, if you want to see bloodshed and no-holds bar action, go watch the XFL reruns or MMA. Football is more than tackling and making unnecessarily brutal hits... it's about strategy and heart and preparation and execution. If you don't like that. Go whine to your mom.

Bruce Banner
10-16-2008, 03:24 PM
I think I only watched one XFL game, and a guy broke his neck that game....well! **** happens in a non-pansy league!

Prowler
10-16-2008, 03:29 PM
there's a huge difference between mma and this, hines didn't really even do anything and they took money from him

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-16-2008, 04:09 PM
Give me a break with the breaking people's necks crap, those aren't the plays he is talking about, so don't go overboard. You are clearly trying to embelish to prove your point, but that doesn't make it right. It is the going to the whistle, showing emotion, or fines for players going to the whistle or playing a play through, that for some reason gets them fined. Correct me if i'm wrong, but no where does Troy say that you can helmet-to-helmet hit a guy, or 'break a guys neck' and get away with it.....I agree that the NFL has gone overboard on fines and penalties. Penalize the plays/players that deserve it, let the players play. It is pretty obvious when a player deserves it, but the NFL has gone soft on a number of accounts. While we're at it, correct the stupid WR/DB pass interference calls too, the WR shouldn't always get the benefit of the doubt. I can't even count the number of times i've seen a WR clearly interfer with a DB playing the ball and the WR isn't but nothing is called. Lots of stupidness going on. (Off topic rant!!)

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 04:40 PM
there's a huge difference between mma and this, hines didn't really even do anything and they took money from him

how much does hines make?

what percentage of that fine is how much he makes.

i think the NFL has too many whiners.

Brent
10-16-2008, 05:06 PM
I think I only watched one XFL game, and a guy broke his neck that game....well! **** happens in a non-pansy league!
I loved that scramble for the ball they had before games instead of a coin toss.

And Troy bitching about the rules making it a "pansy game" is a lot of talk coming from someone who got a college education and loads of wealth doing nothing more than playing a ******* GAME.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 05:31 PM
there's a difference between people sitting at home jealous that athlete's make money and it being alright to take a person's money just because they can afford it. the entire league has a problem with money. the commish is so scared of being unfair that he's micromanaging calls and raking in player's money. owners are cutting players and forcing restructures to save money without honoring their own deals. nobody...NOBODY is looking out for the player's best interest besides themselves. there's a difference between feeling sorry for rich players having 15k taken from them and acknowledging that its wrong. i don't feel sorry for them, but its still not right to take a dime from someone when they are just doing their jobs.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 05:34 PM
there's a difference between people sitting at home jealous that athlete's make money and it being alright to take a person's money just because they can afford it. the entire league has a problem with money. the commish is so scared of being unfair that he's micromanaging calls and raking in player's money. owners are cutting players and forcing restructures to save money without honoring their own deals. nobody...NOBODY is looking out for the player's best interest besides themselves. there's a difference between feeling sorry for rich players having 15k taken from them and acknowledging that its wrong. i don't feel sorry for them, but its still not right to take a dime from someone when they are just doing their jobs.

Are you calling me jealous?

not to beat a really dead horse.

Belichek was doing his job at winning games. He also was caught taping people. He was fined.

Was it wrong that he was fined? Or was it fine because he was looking out for his own job and self.

BlindSite
10-16-2008, 05:39 PM
The point to which he's referring is stuff like Geoff Rucker's fine a year or so ago when he hit Chris Simms rupturing his spleen. All that happened was instead of going high on Simms he hit him with his shoulder in the mid section, a text book tackle and it just happened to be at the right angle at the right time and that's that. Rucker got fined and he didn't do anything.

A few weeks ago against Atlanta Peppers hit Ryan as he was releasing the ball, literally no time in it and that forced an INT that went back for a TD. Houchuli through his flag and peppers ended up with a fine. The hit wasn't late, wasn't helmet to helmet but he still gets fined.

Thats just two I remember from Panthers games, there's gotta be a lot more stories of guys just playing the game and getting slapped with a fine.

Bruce Banner
10-16-2008, 05:44 PM
The point to which he's referring is stuff like Geoff Rucker's fine a year or so ago when he hit Chris Simms rupturing his spleen. All that happened was instead of going high on Simms he hit him with his shoulder in the mid section, a text book tackle and it just happened to be at the right angle at the right time and that's that. Rucker got fined and he didn't do anything.


Do they even know what specific hit ruptured Simms' spleen? He was getting absolutely destroyed the entire game.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 05:48 PM
i would/am jealous i'd love to have their money

i'd say that was cheating, hines and that cb were on the field, when you are suited up and ready to go i'd call it fair game. that cb should have just held him or illegal handchecked him later, or better yet just told his buddy to clock ward next time he went across the middle if he felt he was wronged. which i'm not a huge proponent for letting the players police themselves, but this was very very minor. i'd say the difference is the 'spirit of the game' kind of like 'community standards' in towns. a little physicality and aggression during the play is to be expected. no excuse for belicheck

BlindSite
10-16-2008, 05:49 PM
They believe it was the rucker hit, he came up really sore after that game, the next two plays were like runs up the middle if I recall and a punt.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 05:53 PM
i would/am jealous i'd love to have their money

i'd say that was cheating, hines and that cb were on the field, when you are suited up and ready to go i'd call it fair game. that cb should have just held him or illegal handchecked him later, or better yet just told his buddy to clock ward next time he went across the middle if he felt he was wronged. which i'm not a huge proponent for letting the players police themselves, but this was very very minor. i'd say the difference is the 'spirit of the game' kind of like 'community standards' in towns. a little physicality and aggression during the play is to be expected. no excuse for belicheck

if there's no excuse for belichek you're giving a double standard... it's okay for people to be wrong on questionable deeds and get fined, whereas if you have video replay proof that crap is going on, and you subsequently get fined... it's a terrible travesty?

get real. two things.

1)players are incapable of policing themselves at large. Hell. they can't even keep themselves out of trouble, let alone not attempt to cause panic and retribution.

2)if you let players police themselves. I'll describe to you quickly, what would happen.

players would: take out the best players. take out people above them. go for the kill. cause severe injury. teams wouldn't be able to field enough players in a game. teams then subsequently lose significant investments. and in the end, no one wins.

if you can't accept either of those answers, you are in serious need of a checkup.

Geo
10-16-2008, 06:02 PM
If Polamalu doesn't like it, go play in another football league. Stupid ass whiner.

I'm so sick of these players who break the rules in some way and then ***** about getting fined. **** and get it right instead, you dolts.

Honestly, look at how many players are actually getting fined per week and how many are playing in total.

steelersfan43
10-16-2008, 06:04 PM
how much does hines make?

what percentage of that fine is how much he makes.

i think the NFL has too many whiners.

That doesnt make sense at all buddy, so by your logic your boss should be able to make you pay him ten bucks anytime he wants for no reason just because it is a very small fraction of your income? Thats ********, how about we think things through before we post.

Geo
10-16-2008, 06:07 PM
How many times do we see defenders get flagged/fined for hitting the head of the quarterback? And we still see it.

How many times do we see players get flagged/fined for helmet-to-helmet hits? And we still see it.

And so on.

You want to bring up players from a completely different era, go for it. But that's just stupid really, there's a number of differences in the game, the rules, the league, etc. from then and today.

But don't tell me a HOF player like Ronnie Lott is an idiot who couldn't play smart. Give me a break, he would get it right in today's NFL.

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 06:14 PM
If Polamalu doesn't like it, go play in another football league. Stupid ass whiner.

I'm so sick of these players who break the rules in some way and then ***** about getting fined. **** and get it right instead, you dolts.

Honestly, look at how many players are actually getting fined per week and how many are playing in total.

I think you're missing the point...

He isn't saying that people should not be fined, just that the league in general is turning into a "pansy" league and that a lot of the newer rules are a bit excessive and take away from what football was.

Smooth Criminal
10-16-2008, 06:14 PM
The difference between Belicheat and the players getting fined here is that most of these hits that are drawing fines arn't against any of the rules. Both Ward and Clark were fined for the Steelers for hits. Ward wasn't even told what hit he was getting fined for and Clark was fined for helmet to helmet when it clearly wasn't a helmet to helmet hit.

I support the league trying to make it a safer game. They have to. Too many guys are getting hurt. Injuries are going to happen no matter what, but this should atleast cut back on it.

The only thing I disagree with is the inconsistency between calls.

But I have read that only 10% of fines are reported publicly so maybe there is more consistency than I get to hear about. But I can only judge it off of the plays we know about.

steelersfan43
10-16-2008, 06:17 PM
How many times do we see defenders get flagged/fined for hitting the head of the quarterback? And we still see it.

How many times do we see players get flagged/fined for helmet-to-helmet hits? And we still see it.

And so on.

You want to bring up players from a completely different era, go for it. But that's just stupid really, there's a number of differences in the game, the rules, the league, etc. from then and today.

But don't tell me a HOF player like Ronnie Lott is an idiot who couldn't play smart. Give me a break, he would get it right in today's NFL.

Yea............... Thats what he is talking about, the league is changing the rules to make the players play like vaginas.. That is the entire point. I dont get what your trying to say.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 06:17 PM
That doesnt make sense at all buddy, so by your logic your boss should be able to make you pay him ten bucks anytime he wants for no reason just because it is a very small fraction of your income? Thats ********, how about we think things through before we post.

Well. It's not that the boss is making you pay him. It's that you're taking pens home from the company, and every time they catch you taking a pen, even if they catch you in the act or on the tape, they'll fine you 10 bucks.

There's not NO REASON. jesus. I mean, there's some illogic to it, yes, i'll grant everyone that, but, sometimes you're going to get caught. And yes you'll have to pay if you do something. And sometimes you'll have to pay if you didn't do something. Why? If 90% of the people who get fined have a reason to, and 10% don't, do we stop fining people all together?

Now that makes no sense. Don't ever tell me i don't think **** through before posting. That's never happened before. Check my record.

Geo
10-16-2008, 06:18 PM
I think you're missing the point...

He isn't saying that people should not be fined, just that the league in general is turning into a "pansy" league and that a lot of the newer rules are a bit excessive and take away from what football was.
How many times has Bob Sanders or Anquan Boldin been flagged or fined for unnecessary roughness? Never.

Just because the idiot Steelers annually don't play with enough discipline, somehow that's the league's fault. I guess it's also the league's fault that the Cowboys commit too many penalties, the Saints as well, and so on. Give me a break.

Good coaching includes teaching players how to play without committing penalties. Smart football includes not committing penalties. All the whiners should focus on this than their punishment for breaking the rules.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 06:19 PM
Yea............... Thats what he is talking about, the league is changing the rules to make the players play like vaginas.. That is the entire point. I dont get what your trying to say.

Do the players really play like vaginas? Really?

Sure, they play less physically aggressive than 40 years ago, but now, these boys are bigger, stronger, faster, uglier, hit with more power and velocity, and more hopped on testosterone than ever before... If that's what you think being a vagina is. Well... that i guess is the entire point.

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 06:20 PM
How many times has Bob Sanders or Anquan Boldin been flagged or fined for unnecessary roughness? Never.

Just because the idiot Steelers annually don't play with enough discipline, somehow that's the league's fault. I guess it's also the league's fault that the Cowboys commit too many penalties, the Saints as well, and so on. Give me a break.

Good coaching includes teaching players how to play without committing penalties.

Again, you are missing his point entirely. Read what I write.

He isn't saying that the Steelers are being victims, nor that they are getting these fines undeservedly, he is commenting that the league as a whole has become a bit too soft. Or in his terms, it is turning into a "pansy" league.

steelersfan43
10-16-2008, 06:21 PM
If Polamalu doesn't like it, go play in another football league. Stupid ass whiner.

I'm so sick of these players who break the rules in some way and then ***** about getting fined. **** and get it right instead, you dolts.

Honestly, look at how many players are actually getting fined per week and how many are playing in total.

He didnt get fined. Hes completly right, if you take hitting away from football it loses its essence, its a physicle game and if you cant take a legit hit, you can go play in a leage were you can tend to your vagina in between plays.

Turtlepower
10-16-2008, 06:21 PM
Again, you are missing his point entirely. Read what I write.

He isn't saying that the Steelers are being victims, nor that they are getting these fines undeservedly, he is commenting that the league as a whole has become a bit too soft. Or in his terms, it is turning into a "pansy" league.

He is only saying it because it is affecting his team right now. There is no way Polamalu would be saying this if Hines wasn't fined.

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 06:22 PM
He is only saying it because it is affecting his team right now. There is no way Polamalu would be saying this if Hines wasn't fined.

He was saying it because he was asked about it in an interview.

Smooth Criminal
10-16-2008, 06:24 PM
He is only saying it because it is affecting his team right now. There is no way Polamalu would be saying this if Hines wasn't fined.

Thats just complete speculation. An interviewer asked him a question. He answered honestly.

Troy isn't the type of player to ***** when his team gets screwed. For him to talk like this he has to be extermely pissed about it.

We didn't hear a word from Troy when he got screwed out of an INT against Indy in the 2005 playoff game. He just kept playing. Troy is definately a class act.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 06:25 PM
He didnt get fined. Hes completly right, if you take hitting away from football it loses its essence, its a physicle game and if you cant take a legit hit, you can go play in a leage were you can tend to your vagina in between plays.


Now you've just gotten sexist here.

If you're saying the game now isn't physical. You're in no shape to be talking.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 06:26 PM
We didn't hear a word from Troy when he got screwed out of an INT against Indy in the 2005 playoff game. He just kept playing. Troy is definately a class act.

I wouldn't call him a class act. But.

I don't think you can speculate on what the man says to the media makes him a 'class act'.

He can be a closet jokester or hater, and the media could never know.

Geo
10-16-2008, 06:27 PM
Again, you are missing his point entirely. Read what I write.

He isn't saying that the Steelers are being victims, nor that they are getting these fines undeservedly, he is commenting that the league as a whole has become a bit too soft. Or in his terms, it is turning into a "pansy" league.
Except there's nothing pansy about it. Guys are playing faster and stronger than before, and just as physical relative to the era. There are certain rules to abide by, ex. not hit helmet to helmet, no hits to the QBs head, no illegal blocking, and so on. This isn't some damn prison pick-up league, not everything goes. There are different rules, different schemes, different salaries, and different players from the NFL and players of way back when.

But to allude that the NFL has become some sort of two-hand touch league is beyond stupid. Polamalu doesn't know what the hell he is talking about, probably because he's taken too many concussions to his brain ... why, because football is still a very physical sport.

CC.SD
10-16-2008, 06:28 PM
Since everybody in this thread is saying vagina, I'm going to say vagina too. Vagina vagina vagina.

The fact that I'm married is really the only thing keeping my life from devolving into that of a 6 year olds.

I don't think the implied correlation here of the Latin word for "sheath" is at all related to the power/speed of these players. The fact is that mentally there are a whole lot more crybabies int he league right now than there were 20 years ago, and Troy is absolutely right.

Geo
10-16-2008, 06:29 PM
Next person to refer to a female's anatomy in this thread will find themselves with an infraction. Get your point across some other way.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 06:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8vTi4H6qiQ&feature=related

what a ***** play

seriously, when a QB is blindsited by a pass rush, the impact is about as strong as the kick of a bull. I think they had a documentary with Joey Porter hitting a dummy with about 5.4 kN

Smooth Criminal
10-16-2008, 06:30 PM
I wouldn't call him a class act. But.

I don't think you can speculate on what the man says to the media as him being a 'class act'.

The fact that you had to go back to his college days to find a late hit proves he is.

You can find a video like that on most guys in this league. Players get caught up in the game and make mistakes like that.

But yes, Troy has been nothing but a class act since coming to Pittsburgh, which is all I've seen of him.

You took the video down?

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 06:31 PM
Except there's nothing pansy about it. Guys are playing faster and stronger than before, and just as physical relative to the era. There are certain rules to abide by, ex. not hit helmet to helmet, no hits to the QBs head, no illegal blocking, and so on. This isn't some damn prison pick-up league, not everything goes. There are different rules, different schemes, different salaries, and different players from the NFL and players of way back when.

But to allude that the NFL has become some sort of two-hand touch league is beyond stupid. Polamalu doesn't know what the hell he is talking about, probably because he's taken too many concussions to his brain ... why, because football is still a very physical sport.

Maybe you are taking things a little bit too literally, and are incapable of sensing hyperbole, but by him saying the league is turning into a "pansy" league is not entirely untrue. Nor did he ever say that football is not a physical sport.

Mainly when it comes to the quarterback, it has gotten ridiculous of how you can hit, or not hit, the quarterback. You can't say that it is more violent today than it was a couple decades ago when guys used to suplex quarterbacks to the ground.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 06:33 PM
The fact that you had to go back to his college days to find a late hit proves he is.

You can find a video like that on most guys in this league. Players get caught up in the game and make mistakes like that.

But yes, Troy has been nothing but a class act since coming to Pittsburgh, which is all I've seen of him.

You took the video down?

I did.

I figured it was irrelevant, but, doesn't make him any more or less of a class act.

What he 'portrays' to the media is very shallow and not representive of him being or not being a class act. I think it's very speculative on your part.

Jvig43
10-16-2008, 06:35 PM
The thing is look at Dominic Rhodes run last sunday, how he refused to go down. Offensive players are going to go all out, all of the time they dont stop running after one hit, they keep their legs pumping and moving foward. So why is it were taking money from defenders for doing the same thing, namely going all out doing their job. Im not defending cheap hits, but seriously this is FREAKING FOOTBALL. The game where we get those big hits, thats what sundays about (and monday, with instances on thursdays and saturdays). If defensive players have to worry about making big hits, every run is going to turn into a breaks five tackles, 56 yard run. You tell them Troy, this thing is out of control.

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 06:35 PM
I did.

I figured it was irrelevant, but, doesn't make him any more or less of a class act.

What he 'portrays' to the media is very shallow and not representive of him being or not being a class act. I think it's very speculative on your part.

What, in your opinion then, classifies as a class act?

Bruce Banner
10-16-2008, 06:35 PM
Not making headlines instantly makes you a class act?

Warrick Dunn is a class act, Polamalu is not.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 06:36 PM
Jason Witten is a class act. Pacman Jones is not

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 06:37 PM
Mainly when it comes to the quarterback, it has gotten ridiculous of how you can hit, or not hit, the quarterback. You can't say that it is more violent today than it was a couple decades ago when guys used to suplex quarterbacks to the ground.

But violence doesn't equal force.

Babies can be violent. Kittens can be violent.

But boys who are 6'2, 235, all muscle, when they're not even violent, they'll still hurt you. No one was as a big or fast back them (sans LT)

Geo
10-16-2008, 06:37 PM
You're right on that point, I wouldn't say it's more violent. Some of the stuff that would fly then, defensive linemen being able to club offensive linemen in the head and so on and so on. If you want to compare the NFL of today to football before the advent of the forward pass, and thus say it's a "pansy league," go right ahead I suppose. I think that is a worthless and stupid thing to do, myself.

But the league today, I wouldn't call if pansy in any way. There are big hits every week, gang tackling, and so on. 450-lbs. of Shaun Rogers is falling on quarterbacks, sheesh. I may not agree with every single rule, but serious stuff like clutching facemasks to the possible detriment of a player's health (inside and out of football) must be called imo.

Am I the only one who thinks last season was much, much worse when it came to flags and quarterbacks? Last season was terrible.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 06:37 PM
i expect some people to never have a clue about what i'm talking about because they only see what they want to see and argue about what they want to argue about. there's a reason why they are football players and you aren't. they are highly motivated physical type-A alpha dogs who play a game watched by millions of people. every little hand motion and step they make is being watched and criticised. the game is exciting and with your blood pumping sometimes you make contact a second after the whistle. it happens. he wasn't trying to crush the guy's spine. let's call the game honorably and how teams actually perform and by the spirit of the game, and not just because someone appeared to have hit a qb a half second after the ball was released and then do game altering 15 yard penalties. that's just the game though.

money and fines are people's lives. yes they play a game, but when you take a person's money no matter what percentage it is, you are interfering in their livelihood. sit them for a quarter/half/game/season and fine them if its truly flagrant(which i don't think goodell can judge) but just taking their money is just plain dumb. i question their motives. what does it solve? its flagrant enough that they can take their money but nothing else? what kind of standard is that? good/Bad but legal/fineable/bad? what system is that? they didn't even do anything willis mcgahee gets his eye gouged out but they fine hines ward?!? where is the consistancy?!? it's straight up robbery. its the same argument for cops and minorities. if a cop follows a car for 15 minutes, that person is bound to break a minor law more often than a nonminority who is not being followed by cops. it seriously is discriminatory. they need something better than what they have.

belicheck was cheating, ward was being physical and standing inbounds in an area supervised by referees watching his moves and did not get penalized.

steelersfan43
10-16-2008, 06:38 PM
Well. It's not that the boss is making you pay him. It's that you're taking pens home from the company, and every time they catch you taking a pen, even if they catch you in the act or on the tape, they'll fine you 10 bucks.

There's not NO REASON. jesus. I mean, there's some illogic to it, yes, i'll grant everyone that, but, sometimes you're going to get caught. And yes you'll have to pay if you do something. And sometimes you'll have to pay if you didn't do something. Why? If 90% of the people who get fined have a reason to, and 10% don't, do we stop fining people all together?

Now that makes no sense. Don't ever tell me i don't think **** through before posting. That's never happened before. Check my record.

How is a hard hit ( not h-h or anything like that) like taking a pen from a company? If your going to say because it slightly shortins that guys career therby making the nfl less money, not really because fans like seeing big hits and if they happen more people will tune in or look at them on nfl.com

Also, you act as if the fining is an inaccurate process, when it doesnt have to be, you have the tapes sit down and examin them and make a logical desicion. If a hit is not helmet to helmet or after the play or a blindside hit there is no reason to fine the players.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 06:38 PM
so when a "kevin Everett" incident happens every 2nd game or Roy Williams goes around and breaks necks with horse collars, what do you think how many guys are going to play in 1-2 years?

steelersfan43
10-16-2008, 06:43 PM
so when a "kevin Everett" incident happens every 2nd game or Roy Williams goes around and breaks necks with horse collars, what do you think how many guys are going to play in 1-2 years?
First off, kevin everett did that to himself by lowering his head into the guy which is illegal. Second, hes not talking about Cheap hits like helmet to helmet, blindsides, or horsecollers, hes talking about clean hits that the players get fined for because they hammered the guy.

Also, the money from the fines shouldnt go to the nfl because they could just fine players to make money, they should give all the fine money and crap to a charity or something.

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 06:44 PM
so when a "kevin Everett" incident happens every 2nd game or Roy Williams goes around and breaks necks with horse collars, what do you think how many guys are going to play in 1-2 years?

what are you trying to say here?

Everett broke his neck on a play that was not dirty. Roy William's horse collars have been banned as they have broken people's legs.

Regardless of whether or not they banned that horse collar tackle or not players will still play... you know the risk of football when you choose to play

Geo
10-16-2008, 06:46 PM
Also, the money from the fines shouldnt go to the nfl because they could just fine players to make money, they should give all the fine money and crap to a charity or something.
I'm pretty sure the money does go to charity, actually.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 06:46 PM
what are you trying to say here?

Everett broke his neck on a play that was not dirty. Roy William's horse collars have been banned as they have broken people's legs.

Regardless of whether or not they banned that horse collar tackle or not players will still play... you know the risk of football when you choose to play
yes everett broke it on a not dirty play. but those kind of injuries will start to come if the NFL allows players to hit everyone in sight.

I mean what does it help any player just to hammer a guy who has nothing to do with the play other than maybe injuring him?

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 06:47 PM
I'm pretty sure the money does go to charity, actually.

Yeah and it is tax-deductible so the players are not at a total loss

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 06:48 PM
i expect some people to never have a clue about what i'm talking about because they only see what they want to see and argue about what they want to argue about. there's a reason why they are football players and you aren't.

It's because i'm a girl, isn't it?

they are highly motivated physical type-A alpha dogs who play a game watched by millions of people. every little hand motion and step they make is being watched and criticised. the game is exciting and with your blood pumping sometimes you make contact a second after the whistle. it happens. he wasn't trying to crush the guy's spine. let's call the game honorably and how teams actually perform and by the spirit of the game,

Whoa whoa whoa... when you're discussing hundreds of millions of dollars of investments on the field. you don't just say... lets go all, free and wild, and let the spirit of the game take us away.

That's not logic. That won't satisfy fans when players have to police themselves... and said players get ridiculously hurt, clubs lose millions upon millions of dollars because safety precautions weren't in place. Hell. The NFL would be the most dangerous job in america... the NFL (and PA) already has enough hot water on it's hands for taking care of the veterans (which it doesn't)... who in the past 40 years have suffered some horrific injuries and still can't live normal lives... but, this is merely an insurance policy so they don't have to pay out the ass, and thus charge the customers (you and i) more to pay these players so they can constantly be breaking each others bones... it doesn't make sense. anyway... you were saying?

and not just because someone appeared to have hit a qb a half second after the ball was released and then do game altering 15 yard penalties. that's just the game though.

money and fines are people's lives. yes they play a game, but when you take a person's money no matter what percentage it is, you are interfering in their livelihood.

Which pro player is sitting on the corner looking for money? You want to talk about livelyhood? Look at the millions of americans without jobs. Quit looking up to these people who whine that 15k are taking away from them. If an average american family had that, they might be able to stay in their house.

sit them for a quarter/half/game/season and fine them if its truly flagrant(which i don't think goodell can judge) but just taking their money is just plain dumb. i question their motives. what does it solve? its flagrant enough that they can take their money but nothing else? what kind of standard is that? good/Bad but legal/fineable/bad? what system is that? they didn't even do anything willis mcgahee gets his eye gouged out but they fine hines ward?!? where is the consistancy?!? it's straight up robbery. its the same argument for cops and minorities. if a cop follows a car for 15 minutes, that person is bound to break a minor law more often than a nonminority who is not being followed by cops. it seriously is discriminatory. they need something better than what they have.

I don't think you have the knowledge or credentials to be dictating the correct solutions for the NFL in regards to its ability to properly discipline it's players. at all.

Taking their money is good for the league? Do you know where it goes?

NFLPA Players Assistance Trust and other Charities involving Youth, Education, and Medicine. If you're whining about making a donation to a good cause. You are a selfish idiot.

Turtlepower
10-16-2008, 06:48 PM
Yeah and it is tax-deductible so the players are not at a total loss

Most likely the fine goes to the league, who then gives it to charity. The players probably won't be able to write-off the money.

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 06:49 PM
yes everett broke it on a not dirty play. but those kind of injuries will start to come if the NFL allows players to hit everyone in sight.

I mean what does it help any player just to hammer a guy who has nothing to do with the play other than maybe injuring him?

Intimidation... trying to get them to retaliate and then get penalized...

Have you ever played organized football? I feel as though someone who has would not be asking these questions...

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 06:56 PM
How is a hard hit ( not h-h or anything like that) like taking a pen from a company? If your going to say because it slightly shortins that guys career therby making the nfl less money, not really because fans like seeing big hits and if they happen more people will tune in or look at them on nfl.com

Also, you act as if the fining is an inaccurate process, when it doesnt have to be, you have the tapes sit down and examin them and make a logical desicion. If a hit is not helmet to helmet or after the play or a blindside hit there is no reason to fine the players.

If you want to go off and do something that's not necessarly allowed, take your own liberties at the prescribed status quo, you can get fined.

I will say yes, it can considerable shorten players careers. Injuries tend to do that.

Big hits don't make up a majority of the game. They make up a majority of ESPN highlights, not NFL game watchers. I don't go into a game to say. Wow. I wanna see this guy pop that guy. That doesn't happen. Ever.

There isn't clear cut rules on what is fine-able and what isn't... You have to look at motive, the circumstantial evidence, it's not 'clear cut' in anyway shape or form... In another thread you had, someone saying 'that guy was horrible, look what he did to eli manning's leg! total cheap shot'... but, if you just looked at it like that, you wouldn't have realized that there was a blocking situation that caused that to happen.

Sure some people can obviously say: that's a cheap shot and should be fined, but asking professionals to be perfect in a subjective field is an absolute lunacy.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 06:56 PM
Intimidation... trying to get them to retaliate and then get penalized...

Have you ever played organized football? I feel as though someone who has would not be asking these questions...
why dont those guys try to win fair and square? i mean do they have no confidence in their own skill that they have to rely on the other team to commit fouls?

and what has that to do with organized football, its not like im the only one asking that

Prowler
10-16-2008, 06:57 PM
so when a "kevin Everett" incident happens every 2nd game or Roy Williams goes around and breaks necks with horse collars, what do you think how many guys are going to play in 1-2 years?

that kind of scenario is what's muddling everything up here. nobody is saying that its ok to run full steam and out of control with intent to injure. neck accidents do happen though, it doesn't take much. people break their necks in flag football. the core issue is 'taking money for legal hits' and i'd even stretch it to 'nonthreatening hits' like pushing in the back in certain scenarios like the ward play. if roy williams battering rammed and broke lets say bolden's neck then i'd want roy fined, suspended, and maybe jailed depending on flagrantness. i think people assume their bosses have more authority over them when they shouldn't. if you let people walk on you then they will, right now goodell is walking on the players. worst cases and best examples are the fines for celebrations. it's the dumbest...absolutely IDIOTIC thing i have ever seen. 15 yard penalty punishes the team. end of story...yet somehow everyone accepts the fact that its justifiable to take the players money for it too. 15 yard is enough. 15 yards is the game. 15k is messing with their life. no right whatsoever. players just like any other workers have rights. if someone is a bad employee then you fire them, the employer doesn't dock his pay....what kind of job is that?

steelersfan43
10-16-2008, 07:02 PM
Ok, kevin everett Lowered his head and went into the tackle with his head down into the ballcarrier. He broke the rules himself, and he caused his own injury as sad as it was, it was his fault.

mikehop05
10-16-2008, 07:02 PM
why dont those guys try to win fair and square? i mean do they have no confidence in their own skill that they have to rely on the other team to commit fouls?

and what has that to do with organized football, its not like im the only one asking that

I am saying that anyone who has played at least high school football can relate to a lot of the little extra hitting and what not that goes on in the NFL, and all of football, that people (mainly those who have never played football) get so upset about.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 07:02 PM
that kind of scenario is what's muddling everything up here. nobody is saying that its ok to run full steam and out of control with intent to injure. neck accidents do happen though, it doesn't take much. people break their necks in flag football. the core issue is 'taking money for legal hits' and i'd even stretch it to 'nonthreatening hits' like pushing in the back in certain scenarios like the ward play. if roy williams battering rammed and broke lets say bolden's neck then i'd want roy fined, suspended, and maybe jailed depending on flagrantness. i think people assume their bosses have more authority over them when they shouldn't. if you let people walk on you then they will, right now goodell is walking on the players. worst cases and best examples are the fines for celebrations. it's the dumbest...absolutely IDIOTIC thing i have ever seen. 15 yard penalty punishes the team. end of story...yet somehow everyone accepts the fact that its justifiable to take the players money for it too. 15 yard is enough. 15 yards is the game. 15k is messing with their life. no right whatsoever. players just like any other workers have rights. if someone is a bad employee then you fire them, the employer doesn't dock his pay....what kind of job is that?
Dude, there are always certain rules, there are laws that are idiotic. Still if u agreed to play in the NFL or live in that state, u have to follow them.
in the celebration case its called unsportsmanlike conduct and to some point i can understand it. and to pushing someone in the back. It can ******* cause an injury. Thats why its forbidden...

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 07:05 PM
yes, but just because it happens does it mean its alright?

Ok, kevin everett Lowered his head and went into the tackle with his head down into the ballcarrier. He broke the rules himself, and he caused his own injury as sad as it was, it was his fault.

jesus i just mean when people get a bad injury like Everett did because of those unnecessary hittings, u think its gonna help the game? i dont mean the same exact movements that lead to it, i mean the injury itself

I am the beast
10-16-2008, 07:05 PM
Dude, there are always certain rules, there are laws that are idiotic. Still if u agreed to play in the NFL or live in that state, u have to follow them.
in the celebration case its called unsportsmanlike conduct and to some point i can understand it. and to pushing someone in the back. It can ******* cause an injury. Thats why its forbidden...

I hate this argument:

"That's the way it is so just deal with it"

The whole point is that it's wrong and it should change. If we always just "dealt with it" or always "followed the rules" the world would make no social advances.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 07:07 PM
I hate this argument:

"That's the way it is so just deal with it"

The whole point is that it's wrong and it should change. If we always just "dealt with it" or always "followed the rules" the world would make no social advances.
yes, i only meant to bring that argument for the celebrations that have nothing to do with this discussion so i said "deal with it" in other words.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 07:09 PM
I hate this argument:

"That's the way it is so just deal with it"

The whole point is that it's wrong and it should change. If we always just "dealt with it" or always "followed the rules" the world would make no social advances.

Well. It was once that way. Everyone got the **** beaten out of them. And that's just the way it was... and you know what?

People were tired of being beaten the **** out of and asked for better conditions. So what did they do? Flag the teams. And if the players don't comply. Fine the players.

This is advancement, if you want to keep going in a cyclic form, you're never going to get anywhere. There is a line between focusing on micromanagement of calls and refs making all calls from the booth, and then there's the non-management, making no calls like they used to... (i know i just said it's cyclic), but, you can only go one way or another on this linear formula of lots of restrictions (which we're not quite at), or no restrictions (which is where we were, and that's called 'the past')

Prowler
10-16-2008, 07:11 PM
It's because i'm a girl, isn't it?



Whoa whoa whoa... when you're discussing hundreds of millions of dollars of investments on the field. you don't just say... lets go all, free and wild, and let the spirit of the game take us away.

That's not logic. That won't satisfy fans when players have to police themselves... and said players get ridiculously hurt, clubs lose millions upon millions of dollars because safety precautions weren't in place. Hell. The NFL would be the most dangerous job in america... the NFL (and PA) already has enough hot water on it's hands for taking care of the veterans (which it doesn't)... who in the past 40 years have suffered some horrific injuries and still can't live normal lives... but, this is merely an insurance policy so they don't have to pay out the ass, and thus charge the customers (you and i) more to pay these players so they can constantly be breaking each others bones... it doesn't make sense. anyway... you were saying?



Which pro player is sitting on the corner looking for money? You want to talk about livelyhood? Look at the millions of americans without jobs. Quit looking up to these people who whine that 15k are taking away from them. If an average american family had that, they might be able to stay in their house.



I don't think you have the knowledge or credentials to be dictating the correct solutions for the NFL in regards to its ability to properly discipline it's players. at all.

Taking their money is good for the league? Do you know where it goes?

NFLPA Players Assistance Trust and other Charities involving Youth, Education, and Medicine. If you're whining about making a donation to a good cause. You are a selfish idiot.

you didn't listen to a single thing i said and took it the way you wanted to read it. let's take 15k from your paycheck and donate it to charity. see if you agree with a selfish idiot then. what does nfl charities have to do with anything? that's like saying i'm going to steal someone's car and donate it to a homeless guy. YOU STOLE MY CAR! the action wasn't right. all of these guys have their own charities that they choose to donate to.

and i think you need glasses. i never said 'lets go free and wild' i was talking about not docking their pay for doing what they are paid to do.

NFL veterans have nothing to do with any of what i'm talking about. what i'm talking about is legal, you can go watch soccer if you want different rules.

nfl players sitting on corners? ofcourse not, the price doesn't matter its the principle of it.

you have the same credentials i do, definately not any more than i do

also, seriously change your tone off of me and attack the problem. i attack the reason. i'm not trying to prove some kind of thing because you're a girl, i'm arguing the point of fines.

I am the beast
10-16-2008, 07:13 PM
Well. It was once that way. Everyone got the **** beaten out of them. And that's just the way it was... and you know what?

People were tired of being beaten the **** out of and asked for better conditions. So what did they do? Flag the teams. And if the players don't comply. Fine the players.

This is advancement, if you want to keep going in a cyclic form, you're never going to get anywhere. There is a line between focusing on micromanagement of calls and refs making all calls from the booth, and then there's the non-management, making no calls like they used to... (i know i just said it's cyclic), but, you can only go one way or another on this linear formula of lots of restrictions (which we're not quite at), or no restrictions (which is where we were, and that's called 'the past')

I am not taking a side on this argument. I was just pointing out that saying "it's the way it is" and hence "deal with it" is a terrible argument.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 07:13 PM
well they didnt steal it. Those guys agreed to play in the NFL. If u dont want to pay the fine, then dont play in the NFL

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 07:27 PM
you didn't listen to a single thing i said and took it the way you wanted to read it. let's take 15k from your paycheck and donate it to charity.

obviously, you weren't listening to me earlier, when i said, in the grand scheme of things, for hines ward to have 15k taking out of his paycheck was a very small percentage of what he makes on a yearly basis... .2%... I will be happy to donate .2% if my company asked me to. maybe i'm more generous than you and hines ward (he's a decent guy, and korean too! -.-)

see if you agree with a selfish idiot then. what does nfl charities have to do with anything? that's like saying i'm going to steal someone's car and donate it to a homeless guy. YOU STOLE MY CAR! the action wasn't right. all of these guys have their own charities that they choose to donate to.

hyperbole. tl;dr

and i think you need glasses. i never said 'lets go free and wild' i was talking about not docking their pay for doing what they are paid to do.

Which is what? You're sounding like you're advocating less restriction, less calling of penalties, and a more 'traditional' game of football like it's been played 20, 25 years ago. I say, that's not feasible now.

NFL veterans have nothing to do with any of what i'm talking about. what i'm talking about is legal, you can go watch soccer if you want different rules.

why not?


nfl players sitting on corners? ofcourse not, the price doesn't matter its the principle of it.

quit paying taxes then.

you have the same credentials i do, definately not any more than i do

i do? are you college educated? do you work for a company studying the flow of business and analyzing every little ******* detail that comes your way?

also, seriously change your tone off of me and attack the problem. i attack the reason. i'm not trying to prove some kind of thing because you're a girl, i'm arguing the point of fines.

change the tone off you? well. you've obviously made sexist comments. that's why i've been irritated.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 07:36 PM
i haven't made a single sexist comment

Prowler
10-16-2008, 07:42 PM
and actually i'm 23 and about to graduate as a political science major (pre-law) who is arguing a point that players giving into the nfl is not a good thing. they are absolutely being hammered by letting the nfl change the rules and 'make examples' of them. the consistancy isn't their and the nfl doesn't always have the right. i'd say 'fair' would be everytime the arbitrators rule that the nfl fined a player too much money that said player should have the right to sue the nfl for damages for 'improper conduct'. nobody can actually DO anything when the nfl changes the rules except stop playing. some of these guys are making clean hits and are being fined, that's wrong and the nfl needs to be wronged a few times.

which i don't personally believe that nfl players sueing the nfl is a good thing, i believe they should have their own rights and interests protected. the whole thing just leads to a bad place and needs to be readdressed.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 07:43 PM
i haven't made a single sexist comment

sorry. it's 3am. my bad. you didn't. that was other trolls.

Gay Ork Wang
10-16-2008, 07:47 PM
sorry. it's 3am. my bad. you didn't. that was other trolls.
before anyone asks, she is in africa

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 07:53 PM
arguing a point that players giving into the nfl is not a good thing.

the NFLPA doesn't seem to think that these are a 'bad' idea... if players want to argue. Go through the union, not make a big stink solo. it weakens the overall leagues position.

they are absolutely being hammered by letting the nfl change the rules and 'make examples' of them. the consistancy isn't their and the nfl doesn't always have the right.

why doesn't the NFL have the right? it's their league. they set the rules. just because they enforce them badly doesn't make them any less valid or not.

i'd say 'fair' would be everytime the arbitrators rule that the nfl fined a player too much money that said player should have the right to sue the nfl for damages for 'improper conduct'.

the NFLPA doesn't actually come in an formally protest fines that are excessive already? that's news to me...


nobody can actually DO anything when the nfl changes the rules except stop playing.

that's the price you pay for winning the lottery that is called playing in the NFL.

some of these guys are making clean hits and are being fined, that's wrong and the nfl needs to be wronged a few times.

Vengeance eh? That's the real mature way to work things out...

which i don't personally believe that nfl players sueing the nfl is a good thing, i believe they should have their own rights and interests protected. the whole thing just leads to a bad place and needs to be readdressed.

Hence the NFLPA exists... You act like the majority of players are getting slighted? When in reality, it's just a few big name talent guys who want to whine. You act like the players aren't protected.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 07:54 PM
before anyone asks, she is in africa

and i was way awake before you renji.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 07:54 PM
i understand, nothing personal. my fault for continuing, i've been stuck in defensive mode lately.

and we have a half dozen examples in the past few weeks, that is unacceptable.

as for rules enforcement, well if my work fined me for stealing, office tackling, etc. when i wasn't, well i'd take issue with that.

and well there's protesting, then there's lawsuits....you try to take from me unfairly, such as cd companies, cell phone providers, cable providers, dell, landlords, etc. then what protections would i have besides going through court everytime? sometimes there has to be punitive damages to ensure abuse of power doesn't occur. that avenue should be open to everybody. i don't like where that leads which is why i say drop these 'pansy' fines

and its easy for nfl sympathizers to call player retaliation against the league as simple vengeance when they are the ones pulling all the strings

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 08:00 PM
i understand, nothing personal. my fault for continuing, i've been stuck in defensive mode lately.

well. i was expecting you to carry on. but, obviously were having issues.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-16-2008, 08:01 PM
The average lifespan of an NFL player is 62. Anything to extend that I support.

Well athletes often live shorter lives, because they're so much larger than average people. Also a lot of old athletes lived extremely unhealthy lifestyles, smoking and drinking a lot of the time.

awfullyquiet
10-16-2008, 08:05 PM
Well athletes often live shorter lives, because they're so much larger than average people. Also a lot of old athletes lived extremely unhealthy lifestyles, smoking and drinking a lot of the time.

Very true. But the smoking and drinking may be due to: pain?

Prowler
10-16-2008, 08:17 PM
i guess this helps sum it up for me too. arbitration isn't the same as having the right to sue.

http://www.todaysworkplace.org/2003/10/01/employees-may-lose-right-to-jury-trial-in-9th-circuit-mandatory-arbitration-opinion/

Arbitration Often Limits or Eliminates Essential Procedural Protections

• Arbitrators do not have to know or follow the law

• Arbitrators do not grant injunctive or remedial relief

• Arbitration does not contain the procedural safeguards of court

• Arbitrators do not have to abide by the Federal Rules of Evidence

• Arbitrators do not have to abide by the Federal Rules of Discovery

• Limited compensatory and attorneys’ fees makes hiring a lawyer difficult

• Arbitrators do not have to be lawyers

• Arbitrators rarely issue written opinions

• Arbitrators do not have to justify their rulings

• Arbitrators are only regulated in two states

i'd also add that arbitrators rely on the system for repeat business thus they are more likely to rule in favor of the nfl and are too biased

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-16-2008, 08:24 PM
i love some of the stupid examples people have given. 'Hey, lets show an obvious helmet-to-helmet hit' or 'Look at this late hit, how can you say this doesn't deserve a fine!!' Please people, get with it. No one is disputing that plays deserve fines. It is the weak/marginal things, playing to the whistle, a weak and very borderline QB hit (you know they call to many roughing the passer penalties), etc. No one has said get rid of fines, so many people are taking this to a whole new level that isn't even being disputed (didn't read the last page of posts).
I find it interesting that defensive players take the majority of the questionable fines, and the primary way offensive guys get them is through celebration (side note). What a player does off the field is also not relevant to what happens on it when making a 'convincing' arguement.
I was actually laughing at some people's posts on here. I love the way some people pump themselves up. THEY CAN'T BE WRONG!! hahaha
Keep it up guys.

Prowler
10-16-2008, 08:43 PM
in that spirit, i'm not wrong. players who are probably forced to sign away their right to lawsuit and get arbitration instead. 'judged' by a system conducive to established pro-nfl standards where everyone profits provided the ruling goes the nfl's way. i'd say eric smith, whom hit bolden. i hated that play, but $50,000 fine out of a $450,000 salary is substantial. lets say the normal fine for a hit like that is 20,000 or so less than that. i'm not even saying that he doesn't deserve that fine or more. just that there aren't even clear standards anymore. and in pepper's case i believe with the late hit to the helmet of matt ryan, its not even being enforced accurately. pepper's legal rights sit with an arbitrator who doesn't even have to follow the law specifically, just reach some sort of conclusion. which peppers doesn't want to stick it to the nfl even if he could because the system is stacked against him. with eric smith, lets say he's out of the nfl in 2 years. most of that money goes to training/maintaining his lifestyle and his house. the nfl knows that they can never get away with what they do with 'contracts' (what a joke term) in a real legal system so they have to do it this way to maintain power. if someone wants a 10 page rant about this i think i'll write a paper about it with actual works cited and such.

k, done, i'm now reverting back to simple mode, 'let them hit each other' 'it aint fair'

Mr. Stiller
10-16-2008, 09:17 PM
How bout we all just agree to put Flags and Dresses on the QB that way we avoid the constantly controversial issue of "When is it ok to actually hit the QB?"

ShutDwn
10-16-2008, 09:42 PM
I don't know if this has been said since I last replied, but Mark Shlereth is absolutely right about this. I was trying to get at this earlier but didn't say completely what I think.

Mark said it right, the NFL boosts these guys like Lott and huge hits, but fines people for the same hits. Like Mark brought up, the NFL sells a DVD of a collection of big hits, how ridiculous is that that they fine players for hits and then make a DVD collection?

kwilk103
10-16-2008, 10:14 PM
all i know is the defensive backfield of jack tatum and george atkinson of the raiders in the 70s would probably have been banned today

Smooth Criminal
10-17-2008, 08:46 AM
I don't know if this has been said since I last replied, but Mark Shlereth is absolutely right about this. I was trying to get at this earlier but didn't say completely what I think.

Mark said it right, the NFL boosts these guys like Lott and huge hits, but fines people for the same hits. Like Mark brought up, the NFL sells a DVD of a collection of big hits, how ridiculous is that that they fine players for hits and then make a DVD collection?

Goes toward Troy's point. Everytime the league makes a decision its about money.Now, not saying thats a bad thing, because it is a business and thats what businesses are for.

The reason they're cracking down on hits is they don't want star players out. Star players draw better ratings. I'd be willing to bet that last sunday nights game has a lower rating than it would have if Brady was playing.

Now I'm not against the new "rules". Hell I dont even think they're actual rules. Just fines for whoever Goodell wants to fine. But I want consistency in the calls. I've seen Shaun Rodgers absolutley kill Big Ben and Eli after they had thrown the ball. On neither play did he get a flag or as far as I know, a fine. Then we see plays like Suggs getting flagged for barely touching Collins, hell he didn't even knock him off his feet.

The league has the right to make whatever rules they want. Their game. But they also have the responsibility to make sure they are enforced consistently, which they are not doing right now.

FlyingElvis
10-17-2008, 12:48 PM
so when a "kevin Everett" incident happens every 2nd game or Roy Williams goes around and breaks necks with horse collars, what do you think how many guys are going to play in 1-2 years?

yes everett broke it on a not dirty play. but those kind of injuries will start to come if the NFL allows players to hit everyone in sight.

I mean what does it help any player just to hammer a guy who has nothing to do with the play other than maybe injuring him?
Wow, great logic. Perhaps you could back this logic up with some actual stats. Specifically, how often were these types of injuries occuring? The league has been making stricter rules to protect players for the last 3 or 4 years with helmet to helmet rules and roughing/unsportsmanlike conduct - have the incidents of these severe injuries decreased in that time span? And then we'll check back with you in 2 years to see if the random fining imposed by Goodell for insignificant hits results in a further reduction of these types of injuries.

I do know that over the last 4 years of so we certainly have not seen these injuries occur "every 2nd game" nor have we seen "Roy Williams go[ing] around and break[ing] necks." So how are these completely made up numbers even relavant to the topic?


How bout we all just agree to put Flags and Dresses on the QB that way we avoid the constantly controversial issue of "When is it ok to actually hit the QB?"

rofl! that would rock. floral prints in team colors!

Modano
10-17-2008, 01:39 PM
It's because i'm a girl, isn't it?


I never thought you were a girl, well I never thought there was a girl on this forum. Pretty stupid from my part considering I've never noticed the "Miss" part under your nickname :D

Anyway stupid fines are not the ones for horse collars and other on the field accidents, but the ones for celebrations.

awfullyquiet
10-17-2008, 02:13 PM
Anyway stupid fines are not the ones for horse collars and other on the field accidents, but the ones for celebrations.

Agreed. Actually, more importantly... I think it shouldn't be penalized, but fined.

I think there are a bunch of things that'll be better off being 'fines' than penalties on the field.

I also think there needs to be more suspensions...

Modano
10-17-2008, 02:36 PM
I also think there needs to be more suspensions...

And that would make you Miss Goodell instead of Miss NFLDC ;) Yeah, I know, bad joke.
What I find silly, for example, is that a guy can't touch the ground while celebrating a TD. TO got a 15 yards penalty for mocking Usain Bolt because he touched the ground. Yeah, veeeery offensive and disrespectful!

Gay Ork Wang
10-17-2008, 02:41 PM
And that would make you Miss Goodell instead of Miss NFLDC ;) Yeah, I know, bad joke.
What I find silly, for example, is that a guy can't touch the ground while celebrating a TD. TO got a 15 yards penalty for mocking Usain Bolt because he touched the ground. Yeah, veeeery offensive and disrespectful!
well, they have to somehow set borders

awfullyquiet
10-17-2008, 02:44 PM
well, they have to somehow set borders

Make it illegal to watch the NFL outside of america...

Aw damn. :(

Gay Ork Wang
10-17-2008, 02:48 PM
they already stopped NFL Europe :(

brat316
10-17-2008, 03:09 PM
They should just make it flag. So that way the multi million dollar investments don't get hurt.

ChezPower4
10-17-2008, 03:13 PM
And that would make you Miss Goodell instead of Miss NFLDC ;) Yeah, I know, bad joke.
What I find silly, for example, is that a guy can't touch the ground while celebrating a TD. TO got a 15 yards penalty for mocking Usain Bolt because he touched the ground. Yeah, veeeery offensive and disrespectful!

Another great example of the No Fun League..... TD celebrations are entertaining and fans love them

d34ng3l021
10-17-2008, 05:16 PM
Not really anything to do with this thread, but here (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/17/david-finchers-nike-fate-commercial/) is a link to a really awesome nike commercial featuring LT and Polamalu.

awfullyquiet
10-17-2008, 05:26 PM
Not really anything to do with this thread, but here (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/10/17/david-finchers-nike-fate-commercial/) is a link to a really awesome nike commercial featuring LT and Polamalu.

Sick commercial.

Reasons why:

1) David Fincher
2) Morricone's Ecstasy of Gold.

Modano
10-17-2008, 07:20 PM
they already stopped NFL Europe :(

NFL Europa sucked. Every european football league sucks. Except for flag football leagues, they rock. They even made a european U15 flag football championship sponsored by the NFL a couple of years ago and another one is coming in a couple of years.

Gay Ork Wang
10-17-2008, 07:52 PM
NFL Europa sucked. Every european football league sucks. Except for flag football leagues, they rock. They even made a european U15 flag football championship sponsored by the NFL a couple of years ago and another one is coming in a couple of years.
**** u, at least there was some football i was able to see! I saw JT O'Sullivan in action!!!!

robert pancake gallery
10-19-2008, 02:21 PM
they should get rid of the fair catch, its not fair that polamalu cant take cheap shots like he did on aaron lockett without a 15 yard penalty.

Mr. Stiller
10-19-2008, 03:07 PM
they should get rid of the fair catch, its not fair that polamalu cant take cheap shots like he did on aaron lockett without a 15 yard penalty.

Redundant. Yeah Troy had a hit in college, and never a PF in the league in 4 years.

but. That's is great logic.

Mr. Stiller
10-19-2008, 03:09 PM
Goes toward Troy's point. Everytime the league makes a decision its about money.Now, not saying thats a bad thing, because it is a business and thats what businesses are for.

The reason they're cracking down on hits is they don't want star players out. Star players draw better ratings. I'd be willing to bet that last sunday nights game has a lower rating than it would have if Brady was playing.

Now I'm not against the new "rules". Hell I dont even think they're actual rules. Just fines for whoever Goodell wants to fine. But I want consistency in the calls. I've seen Shaun Rodgers absolutley kill Big Ben and Eli after they had thrown the ball. On neither play did he get a flag or as far as I know, a fine. Then we see plays like Suggs getting flagged for barely touching Collins, hell he didn't even knock him off his feet.

The league has the right to make whatever rules they want. Their game. But they also have the responsibility to make sure they are enforced consistently, which they are not doing right now.

On the Big hits video, they should do it like that "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" ...


Showing the cost of the fine at the bottom of the screen.

Brent
10-19-2008, 03:14 PM
I saw JT O'Sullivan in action!!!!
I'm sorry you were subjected to that.

DragonFireKai
10-19-2008, 04:18 PM
I'm sorry you were subjected to that.

Better than being subjected to watching Alex Smith play.