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illmatic74
10-16-2008, 11:18 AM
There are certain traits for a great QB in the NFL. How bout we rank the top QBS when it comes to those traits in college.
Arm strength- As in ability to throw passes in tight spaces not if they can throw the ball 70 yards on their needs. Like if they can throw the 15 yd out stuff like that.
Accuracy- Not ony completins but if they always hit their targets in stride, if they don't throw too many passes low or high that stuff.
Mobility- I don't care that much about the scrambling but how they avoid the rush.
Field Vision- How well they see the whole field. QBs who go through all their reads and don't stare down routes.
Mechanics- Do they have a proper dropback? Do they square their feet? Do they lose mechanics under pressure?
Release- How quick the ball comes out.
Football IQ- How well do they make changes at the line? Do they understand coverages?
Intangibles- Whatever you want it to mean.

Babylon
10-16-2008, 11:41 AM
Arm Strength- Stafford
Accuracy- Bradford
Mobility- McCoy
Mechanics- Stafford
Release- Stafford
Football IQ-????????
Intangibles-Sanchez

eaglesalltheway
10-16-2008, 11:48 AM
Arm Strength- Stafford
Accuracy- Bradford
Mobility- McCoy
Mechanics- Stafford
Release- Stafford
Football IQ-????????
Intangibles-Sanchez

I would say that Bradofrd probably has the football IQ hammered down. I have heard from many different places that he is a very cerebral QB. I can't say I've heard that from either.

jnew76
10-16-2008, 05:08 PM
Arm Strength

1. Stafford - Has an absolute cannon
2. Sanchez - Strong arm and can make all the throws.
3. Bradford - Adequate arm that I has improved over last year. I anticipate that he will develop better arm strength as he fills out. He is only 20.
4. McCoy - Colt has a decent arm and is very accurate. Might not have the velocity to throw the 20 yd out to the opposite hash, but not all the NFL QB's have the ability to make that throw.

Accuracy

1. Bradford - Consistently puts the ball in the proper place for the receiver to catch the ball and make things happen after the catch. Made a couple of throws in the red-zone against Texas into small windows that only his receiver could catch. Needs to polish his deep ball a little more.
2. McCoy - Consistently puts the ball where it needs to be. Against OU he delivered the ball to Shipley and Cosby where the could make plays after the catch which was key to the victory. Throws a good deep ball as well.
3. Sanchez - Runs hot and cold because he does not always square his shoulders. Sometimes he runs through his progressions without rotating his shoulders and squaring to the target to deliver. When he stays mechanically sound, he is very accurate.
4. Stafford - Constant pressure has lead to him throw off his back foot constantly and causes his tremendous mechanics to break down. Behind Bradford's O-Line Stafford would complete many more passes. However, he will overthrow the deep ball on occasion. He will try and force the ball at times which leads to overthrowing. Misses some targets over the middle and chooses the wrong ball flight. Tries to throw the laser when he should put some air under the ball.

Mobility/Escapability

1. McCoy - He clearly has the most speed and ability to avoid the rush.
2. Stafford - Stafford has the ability to make plays with his feet. He is a threat to run and is well built enough to break a tackle.
3. Bradford/Sanchez Tie - Bradford is underrated as an athlete and can escape the pocket to buy time and even outrun some LB's to the sidelines. Sanchez is also a good athlete and can make some yards outside the pocket.

Mechanics

1. Stafford - When he is not under pressure, he has beautiful mechanics
2. Bradford - Perfect balance on all his throws
3. Sanchez - Does not square his feet/shoulders to throw sometimes causing some wayward throws
4. McCoy - Not as polished mechanically - But does not take away from his accuracy. Still gets it done.

Release

1. Stafford - Textbook
2. Sanchez - Very polished when he is square
3. Bradford - Solid from the ground up. Perfect balance and square shoulders lead to accuracy. Looks a little rigid at times.
4. McCoy - Not as quick as the others, but has a good release and decent mechanics.

Football IQ -

1. Sanchez - Most NFL ready... Pro style system and 4 years college helps him in this area.
2. Bradford - Another year to progress and he would be at the top of this list
3. McCoy/Stafford (TIE) - Stafford needs to find check downs and recognize the blitz better, but he has made big strides. Having no time makes him look more lost than he really is. McCoy locks on to receivers too much still. He too, has made huge strides in the this area.

Intangibles

1. McCoy - I think McCoy has the good ol' boy mentality and likeability that teammates gravitate toward. He gives it all and looks for contact when he runs as well, which teammates love. Has really stepped up as a leader this year... so far.

2. Sanchez - Rah, Rah guy who is a natural leader.
3. Bradford/Stafford - Tie - Both seem to be a little aloof and quiet leaders. Both are still effective. Might see if Bradford steps up vocally next year if he stays.

Footwork in the Pocket

1. Sanchez - His drops are very good and he stays on balance. Good slide step to avoid the rush. His footwork projects best to NFL system right now.

2. Stafford - Has the ability to take very good drops and when he gets protection his footwork and timing have become very good. Needs to work on pocket presence... sometimes he throws off back foot when he could side step and deliver.

3. Bradford - Works out of the shotgun, so he is behind the other 2 as it transitions to the NFL. Sets his feet on every throw and throws on balance. Did have some trouble feeling the backside pressure from Orakpo and needs to step up in the pocket better at times.

4. McCoy - Has made tremendous strides in the pocket. Still has a long way to go, but his footwork has not affected his accuracy. What it DOES do is lower his release point which will not help him in the pros. Has not appeared rattled this year when pressured, unlike times last year, which caused his footwork to break down.

Throwing on the Move -

1. Bradford - Bradford is amazingly accurate on the move and throws with perfect technique when moving right or left.

2. McCoy - Effective moving outside the pocket and making plays. Takes chances outside the pocket which have led to big plays for Texas so far. Looks to run a little to much when he breaks contain.

3. Stafford - Has tremendous arm strength on the run, but it leads to questionable decisions. Throws late over the middle far too often and too off balance. Seems like he rushes throws on the run which leads to innaccuracy.

4. Sanchez - He needs to improve in this area. He is a pocket passer for the most part and has some struggles outside the pocket. The ball seems to fly on him a little and leads to dangerous overthrows. Makes good decisions for the most part to throw it away when things are not there.

MitchRobStew
10-16-2008, 08:10 PM
Stafford has high football IQ presnap. He calls more audibles than any other QB in the country, which shows an ability to read a defense presnap. Also he wrote some of the plays Georgia has scored on. After the snap I dunno really hard to tell given the situations the QBs are in are very different. However, post snap I'll give it to Sanchez. Bradford especially, with the best offensive line in the country protecting him, and receiver that get amazing separation. Stafford has the best mechanics, release, and has the strongest arm out of the group easily. Sanchez when USC is clicking has the best accuracy out of the group, and may actually have the best arm out of the group when it comes to a balance of arm strength, (which is immense) and accuracy which is very solid. Bradford has the better accuracy on the short stuff, but he can't hit a deep out to save his life. Also he can throw on the run well, but I rarely see him throw under the pressure Stafford is under. McCoy has the best mobility but he will never make it in the NFL so its a moot point, so I'll give it to Bradford for the ability to throw on the run. Intangible is unmeasurable unless it really off the charts aka Matt Ryan, the best QB to come out since Cutler. Cutler is the who Stafford could be at his max capacity, with solid coaching like Cutler has received.

illmatic74
10-16-2008, 08:26 PM
Stafford has high football IQ presnap. He calls more audibles than any other QB in the country, which shows an ability to read a defense presnap. Also he wrote some of the plays Georgia has scored on. After the snap I dunno really hard to tell given the situations the QBs are in are very different. However, post snap I'll give it to Sanchez. Bradford especially, with the best offensive line in the country protecting him, and receiver that get amazing separation. Stafford has the best mechanics, release, and has the strongest arm out of the group easily. Sanchez when USC is clicking has the best accuracy out of the group, and may actually have the best arm out of the group when it comes to a balance of arm strength, (which is immense) and accuracy which is very solid. Bradford has the better accuracy on the short stuff, but he can't hit a deep out to save his life. Also he can throw on the run well, but I rarely see him throw under the pressure Stafford is under. McCoy has the best mobility but he will never make it in the NFL so its a moot point, so I'll give it to Bradford for the ability to throw on the run. Intangible is unmeasurable unless it really off the charts aka Matt Ryan, the best QB to come out since Cutler. Cutler is the who Stafford could be at his max capacity, with solid coaching like Cutler has received. His accuracy on the short routes worries me. He will some times throw it too high or low to prevent YAC.

STARHEATHER
10-16-2008, 10:09 PM
arm strength freeman
mechanics freeman
accuracy freeman
release freeman
arm length freeman
hand size freeman
height freeman
ability to play under center freeman
experience in nfl offense freeman
football iq ??????
intangibles ?????

STARHEATHER
10-16-2008, 10:10 PM
mobility freeman

DoWnThEfiElD
10-16-2008, 10:15 PM
arm strength freeman
mechanics freeman
accuracy freeman
release freeman
arm length freeman
hand size freeman
height freeman
ability to play under center freeman
experience in nfl offense freeman
football iq ??????
intangibles ?????

Handsize?? you stop it now Mythbusta!! You can't go up to every college quarterback and measure their hands, they are going to think you are wierd.

Babylon
10-16-2008, 10:19 PM
Stafford has high football IQ presnap. He calls more audibles than any other QB in the country, which shows an ability to read a defense presnap. Also he wrote some of the plays Georgia has scored on. After the snap I dunno really hard to tell given the situations the QBs are in are very different. However, post snap I'll give it to Sanchez. Bradford especially, with the best offensive line in the country protecting him, and receiver that get amazing separation. Stafford has the best mechanics, release, and has the strongest arm out of the group easily. Sanchez when USC is clicking has the best accuracy out of the group, and may actually have the best arm out of the group when it comes to a balance of arm strength, (which is immense) and accuracy which is very solid. Bradford has the better accuracy on the short stuff, but he can't hit a deep out to save his life. Also he can throw on the run well, but I rarely see him throw under the pressure Stafford is under. McCoy has the best mobility but he will never make it in the NFL so its a moot point, so I'll give it to Bradford for the ability to throw on the run. Intangible is unmeasurable unless it really off the charts aka Matt Ryan, the best QB to come out since Cutler. Cutler is the who Stafford could be at his max capacity, with solid coaching like Cutler has received.

I actually think Stafford's ceiling is a little higher than Jay Cutler, to me that would be the low end.

STARHEATHER
10-16-2008, 10:29 PM
hand size is very important in a qb. and his are massive. most of the top end qbs have larege hands. its similar to basketball in that way. the game is easier the bigger your hands are. it helps not only with throwing the ball but also for ball security.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-16-2008, 10:36 PM
hand size is very important in a qb. and his are massive. most of the top end qbs have larege hands. its similar to basketball in that way. the game is easier the bigger your hands are. it helps not only with throwing the ball but also for ball security.

When did you get an up close look at Freeman's hand, should I even ask?

STARHEATHER
10-16-2008, 10:43 PM
when hes playing. close up footage. replays. you dont need a tape measure to see randy moss has huge hands. its the same with freeman.

Iamcanadian
10-16-2008, 11:28 PM
There are certain traits for a great QB in the NFL. How bout we rank the top QBS when it comes to those traits in college.
Arm strength- As in ability to throw passes in tight spaces not if they can throw the ball 70 yards on their needs. Like if they can throw the 15 yd out stuff like that.
Accuracy- Not ony completins but if they always hit their targets in stride, if they don't throw too many passes low or high that stuff.
Mobility- I don't care that much about the scrambling but how they avoid the rush.
Field Vision- How well they see the whole field. QBs who go through all their reads and don't stare down routes.
Mechanics- Do they have a proper dropback? Do they square their feet? Do they lose mechanics under pressure?
Release- How quick the ball comes out.
Football IQ- How well do they make changes at the line? Do they understand coverages?
Intangibles- Whatever you want it to mean.

My list would include the following:

Arm Strength
Release Point - Ability to see over defenders without moving around which includes mechanics
Foot quickness Believe it or not but Bill Walsh considered this the most important attribute of a QB
Delivery Quickness
Accuracy
Football intellegence A lot of great QB's have a mindset simular to an OC and can give imput into game plans and throughout the game.
Decision making
Third down efficiency
Poise
Escapability not just moving out of the pocket and throwing on the run. The ability to slide in the pocket to avoid the rush. Lots of QB's would lose in a straight line race but they can sidestep with the best of them.
Touch
Ball Handling
Toughness
Intangibles Mainly leadership, has to be the most respected player on his team and a vocal leader, must be a winner.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-17-2008, 12:15 AM
I actually think Stafford's ceiling is a little higher than Jay Cutler, to me that would be the low end.

Really? His low end is one of the NFL's best QBs?

Saints-Tigers
10-17-2008, 12:50 AM
Really? His low end is one of the NFL's best QBs?

Josh Freeman has a low end of being Steve Young, but if he tops out, he has Jordy Nelson or Terrence Cody like potential.

Babylon
10-17-2008, 11:14 AM
Really? His low end is one of the NFL's best QBs?

I'm not saying he is as good as Jay only trying to make a comparison. I think he could be a Troy Aikman Dan Marion type with the right situation.

Staubach12
10-17-2008, 04:15 PM
arm strength freeman
mechanics freeman
accuracy freeman
release freeman
arm length freeman
hand size freeman
height freeman
ability to play under center freeman
experience in nfl offense freeman
football iq ??????
intangibles ?????

I hate you.

BBIB
10-17-2008, 04:54 PM
I think the OP should ask who is the 2nd best person in all those categories since obviously Josh Freeman is the best at every QB attribute.

Or maybe it's so obvious that the OP didn't even state it and it should have been assumed.

STARHEATHER
10-17-2008, 07:10 PM
well, its all true. theres no one right now in college who has all the traits except him. i didnt just put that to irritate. its true. no ones a s big, no ones as mobile (amongst nfl prospects). no one fits the ball into tight spots with zip better. no one throws harder or further. no one else plays in a pure nfl offense. no one else plays under center more than gun. no one else shakes off rushers, stands in the pocket and delivers better. he has all the traits at the top level. no one else does. the only ??? are his "football iq" and " intangibles" but i dont think thats easily measured and its a slippery slope. many a great college "leader" have flopped at that position. they just have to look like the guys doing it now. not just in body, but in thrwoing and eluding and all those oh so underrated physical tools that top qbs have to have. freemans the only one with all the physical tools. the ones with the best "traits" for an nfl qb

1. freeman
2. stafford
3. holbrook
4 perriloux

and other than freeman they all have some serious flaws.

D-Unit
10-17-2008, 08:05 PM
It's all about looks. If your QB is ugly, he'll suck ass. If he's average looking, he'll be average. If he's handsome, you've got yourself a winner.

Prove me wrong. Ha ha.

Babylon
10-17-2008, 08:15 PM
It's all about looks. If your QB is ugly, he'll suck ass. If he's average looking, he'll be average. If he's handsome, you've got yourself a winner.

Prove me wrong. Ha ha.

Peyton Manning is good looking?

BeerBaron
10-17-2008, 09:13 PM
It's all about looks. If your QB is ugly, he'll suck ass. If he's average looking, he'll be average. If he's handsome, you've got yourself a winner.

Prove me wrong. Ha ha.

Peyton Manning is good looking?

yeah....peyton is about as goofus looking as you can come.

and the neckbeard look hasn't made KO the greatest QB of all time yet either!

Cigaro
10-17-2008, 09:32 PM
hand size is very important in a qb. and his are massive. most of the top end qbs have larege hands. its similar to basketball in that way. the game is easier the bigger your hands are. it helps not only with throwing the ball but also for ball security.

Boy those hands sure do help! Couldn't put barely adequate stats against somewhat competent opponents without them!

Dr. Gonzo
10-17-2008, 10:06 PM
well, its all true. theres no one right now in college who has all the traits except him. i didnt just put that to irritate. its true. no ones a s big, no ones as mobile (amongst nfl prospects). no one fits the ball into tight spots with zip better. no one throws harder or further. no one else plays in a pure nfl offense. no one else plays under center more than gun. no one else shakes off rushers, stands in the pocket and delivers better. he has all the traits at the top level. no one else does. the only ??? are his "football iq" and " intangibles" but i dont think thats easily measured and its a slippery slope. many a great college "leader" have flopped at that position. they just have to look like the guys doing it now. not just in body, but in thrwoing and eluding and all those oh so underrated physical tools that top qbs have to have. freemans the only one with all the physical tools. the ones with the best "traits" for an nfl qb

1. freeman
2. stafford
3. holbrook
4 perriloux

and other than freeman they all have some serious flaws.

Yay!!!! Every other QB in college but Freeman is destined to fail. I agree with everything you wrote Mythbusta. In fact I think that whoever drafts Freeman will be going to the Superbowl next with with the man beast as their QB (that includes Indy and New England). Keep fighting the good fight and continue to bust the myth that any QB but Freeman is any good at all. LONG LIVE KING JOSH!!!

STARHEATHER
10-17-2008, 10:56 PM
of all the qbs available, he has the best chnce of lifting the lombardi. he does everything required. no other available college qb does. doesnt mean he will. but at least he looks like he can do it. i see him as a mid rd 1 if he comes out. too many teams hurting at the position and he just has too much physical ability. far more physical ability than brady quinn or jay cutler or matt leinhart. better thrower than vy. just too good a thrower not to take the gamble. if he turns out and you passed its worse than them busting out. like picking kellen winslow or roy williams or larry fitz in front of ben roethlisberger. its just something it takes years. you may never get another shot at a qb with his physical ability. roll the dice. have to do it. theyre just to hard to find

DoWnThEfiElD
10-17-2008, 11:18 PM
Ya physical ability got Jeff George far....

DoWnThEfiElD
10-17-2008, 11:19 PM
1. freeman
2. stafford
3. holbrook
4 perriloux

and other than freeman they all have some serious flaws.

Perriloux? Seriously?

STARHEATHER
10-17-2008, 11:26 PM
he has an absolute cannon. hes good sized and mobile. i wouldnt spend a high pick, but he has a better chance of being good than most of the others. his "issues" are what makes him a mid late rd pick not a first rd pick. he has first rd pick talent

CashmoneyDrew
10-17-2008, 11:28 PM
he has an absolute cannon. hes good sized and mobile. i wouldnt spend a high pick, but he has a better chance of being good than most of the others. his "issues" are what makes him a mid late rd pick not a first rd pick. he has first rd pick talent

Except for the whole dumb as a box of rocks thing. He could probably give VY a run for his money in that area.

STARHEATHER
10-17-2008, 11:33 PM
maybe. or maybe misguided and worth a minor gamble mid rd for potentially good nfl qb, potentially the best qb in this draft, at least from a purely physical standpoint. he didnt look dumb or lost vs tennesee in the sec championship.trying to see into the mind of players, i stay away from that. its too hard to quantify.reminds me physically a bit of donovan mcnabb.

CashmoneyDrew
10-17-2008, 11:36 PM
maybe. or maybe misguided and worth a minor gamble mid rd for potentially good nfl qb, potentially the best qb in this draft, at least from a purely physical standpoint. he didnt look dumb or lost vs tennesee in the sec championship.trying to see into the mind of players, i stay away from that. its too hard to quantify.reminds me physically a bit of donovan mcnabb.

Running QB's have always given Tennessee fits. Perrilloux is nothing special.

STARHEATHER
10-18-2008, 10:53 AM
his running wasnt what was impressive. his throwing arm was. regardless of the opponent

Babylon
10-18-2008, 01:14 PM
maybe. or maybe misguided and worth a minor gamble mid rd for potentially good nfl qb, potentially the best qb in this draft, at least from a purely physical standpoint. he didnt look dumb or lost vs tennesee in the sec championship.trying to see into the mind of players, i stay away from that. its too hard to quantify.reminds me physically a bit of donovan mcnabb.


Let me get this straight, Perriloux is a good mid round gamble for a potential starter (that isnt going to happen) and Bomar is a bad gamble because he's no better than a Drew Brees. Interesting to say the least.

Gay Ork Wang
10-19-2008, 07:56 AM
I think we just found our next Jordy Nelson! *clapclap*


Freemanzzzz has a nice sound to it

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 07:39 PM
his running wasnt what was impressive. his throwing arm was. regardless of the opponent He now he threw 5 ints against that powerhouse Eastern Kentucky.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 08:54 PM
he has far superior physical ability to rhett bomar. he has rd 1 physical ability. i wonder if you saw drew brees today. putrid just like he is every other game or at leats when they play an opponent thaqt plays any semblance of defense. i like perrilouxs physcial ability. he has an nfl level throwing arm, good sized, very mobile. qbs with his physical skills arehard to come by. rhett bomar doesnt have the physical ability to be an nfl qb. hes what i like to call a never was. perriloux has the required physical skills

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 08:57 PM
Did you just call drew brees putrid?

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 08:59 PM
yes sir i did. and he was putrid today.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 09:01 PM
he has far superior physical ability to rhett bomar. he has rd 1 physical ability. i wonder if you saw drew brees today. putrid just like he is every other game or at leats when they play an opponent thaqt plays any semblance of defense. i like perrilouxs physcial ability. he has an nfl level throwing arm, good sized, very mobile. qbs with his physical skills arehard to come by. rhett bomar doesnt have the physical ability to be an nfl qb. hes what i like to call a never was. perriloux has the required physical skills


So Bomar's 4.6 speed at 6-2 1/2 220 lbs with a strong arm isnt physical ability?

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 09:04 PM
with a strong arm compared to who. not compared to ryan perriloux. not compared to nfl qbs. at least not from what i remember. dont get to see him too much vs sam houston st

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 09:10 PM
yes sir i did. and he was putrid today. Over the last 5 years Brees has been one of the best QBS in the NFL. His posted QB ratings of 104.8, 89.2, 96.2, 89.4. He has done that with his best wr over the years being Marques Colston. QB ratings of the NFL just because
1. Brady (injured)
2. P.Manning (benefit of doubt is about to run out)
3. Brees
4. Rivers
5. Rothelisberger
6. E.Manning
7. Cutler
8. McNabb
9. Cambell
10. Edwards

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 09:50 PM
but unfortunately hes not one of the best where it really matters and really the only place it matters. winning.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 09:52 PM
you have him ahead of guys whove won super bowls and playoff games. but i know, its someone elses fault they dont win much. hes the best qb in the league and yet all he can muster is a 500 career record and one playoff win. i just dont see greatness in mediocre success at that position

jnew76
10-19-2008, 09:53 PM
but unfortunately hes not one of the best where it really matters and really the only place it matters. winning.

I could do without the ring as long as I was making that kind of cash and had the respect of my peers that Drew Brees does.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 09:55 PM
thats the difference between me and you. just win baby. just win. everything else is window dressing. if you dont win, youre not great. i dont care how many yards or respect or tds. winning is all that matters

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
10-19-2008, 10:29 PM
It's all about looks. If your QB is ugly, he'll suck ass. If he's average looking, he'll be average. If he's handsome, you've got yourself a winner.

Prove me wrong. Ha ha.

"If you look good, you feel good, if you feel good, you play good"

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 10:34 PM
you have him ahead of guys whove won super bowls and playoff games. but i know, its someone elses fault they dont win much. hes the best qb in the league and yet all he can muster is a 500 career record and one playoff win. i just dont see greatness in mediocre success at that position Well the last two years he has played with the 19th and 27th ranked defense. Josh Freeman 13-15 as Kansas state's starter. Bradford 17-4 Stafford 23-5. Oh yeah Trent Dilfer has a ring. Trying to use your ridiculous logic against you. Rankings update
1. Brady
2. P.Manning
3. Brees
4. Rivers
5. Rothelisberger
6. E.Manning
7. Cutler
8. McNabb
9. Romo(forgot)
10. Cambell
11. Rodgers(forgot)
12. Edwards

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 10:48 PM
and id take trent dilfer any day. or kurt warner. or brad johnson. so what freeman plays on a team which not one player would start for or. the factr that theyve won as many as they have basically on his back shows more to me than standing back there behind duke robinson with all day to throw when youre running the ball down their throats and no one can cover yourreceivers. but that didnt happen vs texas or wvu and bradford folded. if this dude comes out, hes going to flame out no doubt lock it up remember wherte you heard it first. hhes a brady quinn with a worse throwing arm and less athleticism. i expect his stock to fall once he woks out. hes no better of a prospect than brian brohm, in fact probably not as good. he just plays with better players. winning at the college level matters but the best nfl players dont always play for the best team. winning at the nfl level is all that matters. because the team that wins has the best players. its apples and oranges.

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 10:53 PM
and id take trent dilfer any day. or kurt warner. or brad johnson. so what freeman plays on a team which not one player would start for or. the factr that theyve won as many as they have basically on his back shows more to me than standing back there behind duke robinson with all day to throw when youre running the ball down their throats and no one can cover yourreceivers. but that didnt happen vs texas or wvu and bradford folded. if this dude comes out, hes going to flame out no doubt lock it up remember wherte you heard it first. hhes a brady quinn with a worse throwing arm and less athleticism. i expect his stock to fall once he woks out. hes no better of a prospect than brian brohm, in fact probably not as good. he just plays with better players. winning at the college level matters but the best nfl players dont always play for the best team. winning at the nfl level is all that matters. because the team that wins has the best players. its apples and oranges. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer over Brees, Rivers or Cutler

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 10:57 PM
yep. way more winning. cutlers a sub 500 career qb whos never made the playoofs. although i like rivers. hes done lots of winning. i like him less this year although stats are up because theyre not winning at this point.

CashmoneyDrew
10-19-2008, 11:00 PM
yep. way more winning. cutlers a sub 500 career qb whos never made the playoofs. although i like rivers. hes done lots of winning. i like him less this year although stats are up because theyre not winning at this point.

But you like Josh Freeman the best in college? How many championships has he won?

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 11:07 PM
see previous post somewhere else. winning at the nfl level and winning at the college level arent the same thing. put josh freeman on oklahoma hes the first overall pick lock stock and barrel. i concern myself with who has the best qb traits for the nfl level. freemans already being devalued by me and everyone else because of the record of his team. its taken into consideration. if it wasnt and you just watched him throw not knowing what team he played for hed be the #1 overall pick. so his lack of team success is certainly factoring into his value. its definitly hurting him

CashmoneyDrew
10-19-2008, 11:11 PM
see previous post somewhere else. winning at the nfl level and winning at the college level arent the same thing. put josh freeman on oklahoma hes the first overall pick lock stock and barrel. i concern myself with who has the best qb traits for the nfl level. freemans already being devalued by me and everyone else because of the record of his team. its taken into consideration. if it wasnt and you just watched him throw not knowing what team he played for hed be the #1 overall pick. so his lack of team success is certainly factoring into his value. its definitly hurting him

Hmmmm, but I thought great players were able to carry teams on their back?

Babylon
10-19-2008, 11:12 PM
see previous post somewhere else. winning at the nfl level and winning at the college level arent the same thing. put josh freeman on oklahoma hes the first overall pick lock stock and barrel. i concern myself with who has the best qb traits for the nfl level. freemans already being devalued by me and everyone else because of the record of his team. its taken into consideration. if it wasnt and you just watched him throw not knowing what team he played for hed be the #1 overall pick. so his lack of team success is certainly factoring into his value. its definitly hurting him

Making excuses again, great players are supposed to be able to lead their teams to victory.......sound familiar? read your post about Knowshon Moreno.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 11:18 PM
ive already said his lack of winning was devaluing him. if they were 6-1 hed be the #1 overall pick. its really the only thing thats devaluing him

CashmoneyDrew
10-19-2008, 11:22 PM
ive already said his lack of winning was devaluing him. if they were 6-1 hed be the #1 overall pick. its really the only thing thats devaluing him

You seem to forget his extremely average production against good opponents. Something you crucify Knowshon Moreno for.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 11:54 PM
again its already in the equation. hes not winning. hes not elevating his team. but lets at least agree its not a very good team. they dont have a player who would start for georgia. moreno lacks the physical skills required of a top nfl back, hes on a good team, and hes been bad in games. freeman hasnt been bad. they just havent been winning. is that on him, surely. its absolutely hurting him. it doesnt seem to hurt knowshon moreno when hes bad. his lack of size/spoeed coimbo and his poor play dont seem to be devaluing him. i see freeman exactly where he should be and valued according to his physical abilities and what hes done on the field. i dont seem to see that devaluing in knowshon moreno and many of the ohter hyped prospects. no matter how bad they play or whatever physical abilities they lack. its just like this guys great well he had 8 for 30 that doesnt matter hes still great. so i see freeman as being fairly devalued. moreno hasnt been devalued nearly enough

CashmoneyDrew
10-19-2008, 11:56 PM
again its already in the equation. hes not winning. hes not elevating his team. but lets at least agree its not a very good team. they dont have a player who would start for georgia. moreno lacks the physical skills required of a top nfl back, hes on a good team, and hes been bad in games. freeman hasnt been bad. they just havent been winning. is that on him, surely. its absolutely hurting him. it doesnt seem to hurt knowshon moreno when hes bad. his lack of size/spoeed coimbo and his poor play dont seem to be devaluing him. i see freeman exactly where he should be and valued according to his physical abilities and what hes done on the field. i dont seem to see that devaluing in knowshon moreno and many of the ohter hyped prospects. no matter how bad they play or whatever physical abilities they lack. its just like this guys great well he had 8 for 30 that doesnt matter hes still great. so i see freeman as being fairly devalued. moreno hasnt been devalued nearly enough

Sounds like you're making an excuse for him. Just like we were supposedly making excuses for Moreno saying he's playing behind a horrible line.

CroomDawgs
10-19-2008, 11:58 PM
I would just liek to say VooDoo Monkey owns mythbusta

Sniper
10-21-2008, 09:31 AM
"If you look good, you feel good, if you feel good, you play good"

True story.

http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/tombrady.jpg

dojo
10-21-2008, 04:14 PM
http://blogs.kansas.com/kstated/2008/10/20/feeling-a-draft-some-stuff/

mythbusta isnt the only crazy one, imo Freeman has just a good of skill set as Stafford with better mobility and size.

second of all its all about how their game translates to the nfl

theres a lot to like about him especially with the likes of qbs from smaller schools outperforming many of the more known commodities

the combine will tell all for freeman, not too mention this game against oklahoma this week

Babylon
10-21-2008, 05:13 PM
http://blogs.kansas.com/kstated/2008/10/20/feeling-a-draft-some-stuff/

mythbusta isnt the only crazy one, imo Freeman has just a good of skill set as Stafford with better mobility and size.

second of all its all about how their game translates to the nfl

theres a lot to like about him especially with the likes of qbs from smaller schools outperforming many of the more known commodities

the combine will tell all for freeman, not too mention this game against oklahoma this week


Freeman is taller than Stafford but he isnt more mobile and his arm, and most others for that matter, isnt in the same class as Stafford's

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-21-2008, 05:16 PM
yep. way more winning. cutlers a sub 500 career qb whos never made the playoofs. although i like rivers. hes done lots of winning. i like him less this year although stats are up because theyre not winning at this point.

That kinda has to do with the fact that Cutler and Rivers aren't the only members of their respective teams. When Rivers was only a decent QB, the team was winning, but now, despite the fact that he is much, much better, and by my estimation is playing like the 2nd best QB in the NFL, he is worse? No. His defense is worse, LDT is struggling. That's it. With Cutler, his defense has sucked ever since he started playing(even in 06, the defensive transformation from historically good to epically bad had already begun). Not just a "sub-par" defense. I mean a defense that gets SHREDDED, and makes Sammy Morris look like Adrian Peterson, and Matt Cassell like Tom Brady. Not to mention, Cutler's running game has pretty much sucked ever since Henry got banged up early last year. That makes it difficult, right now Cutler is a young QB who is being forced to play like Tom Brady, and essentially pass almost every play.

Note: I use the term "playing like" for two reasons.
1. Tom Brady is hurt.
2. We all know Peyton Manning is better than he's let on.
Also, no one think I'm a homer, because while Rivers is playing like 2nd best this year, nowhere did I say Cutler is first. Drew Brees is playing like the NFL's best QB.

dojo
10-21-2008, 05:20 PM
Freeman is taller than Stafford but he isnt more mobile and his arm, and most others for that matter, isnt in the same class as Stafford's


umm 13 rushing tds would suggest otherwise

Babylon
10-21-2008, 05:24 PM
umm 13 rushing tds would suggest otherwise

They have someone named Moreno there at UGA to do the running. We are talking mobility right?

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
10-21-2008, 05:31 PM
True story.

http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/tombrady.jpg

i was quotin terrell buckley but tom brady is not anywhere near some ugly bastard he gets the hottest chicks.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-21-2008, 07:29 PM
again its already in the equation. hes not winning. hes not elevating his team. but lets at least agree its not a very good team. they dont have a player who would start for georgia. moreno lacks the physical skills required of a top nfl back, hes on a good team, and hes been bad in games. freeman hasnt been bad. they just havent been winning. is that on him, surely. its absolutely hurting him. it doesnt seem to hurt knowshon moreno when hes bad. his lack of size/spoeed coimbo and his poor play dont seem to be devaluing him. i see freeman exactly where he should be and valued according to his physical abilities and what hes done on the field. i dont seem to see that devaluing in knowshon moreno and many of the ohter hyped prospects. no matter how bad they play or whatever physical abilities they lack. its just like this guys great well he had 8 for 30 that doesnt matter hes still great. so i see freeman as being fairly devalued. moreno hasnt been devalued nearly enough


I know this has been addressed, but I would like a straight answer. Why do you not use capital letters?

STARHEATHER
10-21-2008, 07:40 PM
voodoo monkey spends his time following me around bringing no information at all. and as for stafford having a better arm than freeman and more mobile, well its just plain myth. no one throws it even close to freeman. and freemans 12 rushing tds and what he does throwing on the move far outclasses tuck and run i need perfect protection every play or im terrible stafford. i dont hate stafford, but hes not in freemans class throwing the ball, and doesnt have his mobility nor his top end physical traits. that is why you fail. myths and lies and media hype so you turn on that tv like clockwork every week.

niel89
10-21-2008, 07:51 PM
It's all about looks. If your QB is ugly, he'll suck ass. If he's average looking, he'll be average. If he's handsome, you've got yourself a winner.

Prove me wrong. Ha ha.

kyle boller says hi!

http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/17190/hot_kyle_boller.jpg

DoWnThEfiElD
10-21-2008, 08:26 PM
umm 13 rushing tds would suggest otherwise

Ahh yes then Montana St., North Texas, Lousiana Laf., and A&M would explain those.

See then we talk to the decent, not good, but decent teams he played and we see 3 losses, 4 passing touchdowns and 3 running, not to mention the sub .500 completion percentage.

CashmoneyDrew
10-21-2008, 09:29 PM
voodoo monkey spends his time following me around bringing no information at all.

Either you're blind or you enjoy playing stupid. Every time I refute you I point out why I disagree with you and why you're a hack. I guess you just can't own up when you're wrong. Oh, and I don't follow you around. I interact with other members on this site. Your posts are just so idiotic that they catch my eye more than anyone else's.

STARHEATHER
10-21-2008, 09:46 PM
see you just did it again

Sniper
10-21-2008, 09:50 PM
i was quotin terrell buckley but tom brady is not anywhere near some ugly bastard he gets the hottest chicks.

Dude I was kidding.

CashmoneyDrew
10-21-2008, 10:09 PM
see you just did it again

Refute you again? Of course. You were wrong again. I've always explained why you're wrong, but you just refuse to acknowledge it. So don't going around saying I just belittle you without telling you why I do, because I do.

STARHEATHER
10-21-2008, 10:19 PM
you use obscure references and minor non important word plays to try to prove your point. its fine, i understand the tactic. its not going to work. you can get pats on the back thinking you owned me if that makes you feel good im glad you got your jollies. but picking words out of a sentence or referncing another post about a different topic to refute doesnt really show anything.now if you put some nice info up out there id be more inclined to consider it as valid rather than what it is youre doing now

CashmoneyDrew
10-21-2008, 10:33 PM
you use obscure references and minor non important word plays to try to prove your point. its fine, i understand the tactic. its not going to work. you can get pats on the back thinking you owned me if that makes you feel good im glad you got your jollies. but picking words out of a sentence or referncing another post about a different topic to refute doesnt really show anything.now if you put some nice info up out there id be more inclined to consider it as valid rather than what it is youre doing now

All I do is quote you on your hypocrisies and double standards. I've told you why you are wrong probably literally hundreds of times by now but you refuse to respond to them.

dojo
10-22-2008, 01:10 AM
All I do is quote you on your hypocrisies and double standards. I've told you why you are wrong probably literally hundreds of times by now but you refuse to respond to them.

how is he wrong its an opinion this is about who wil make the BETTER NFL QB not who is playing better in the ncaa

throw it in whoevers face when the draft is over and each have actually have taken an nfl snap
fact of the matter is there are some who think freeman is the player that has the most potential out of any qb this year and his arm strength and accuracy is on par with staffords look at the completion %
second of all 13 tds to 0 is better mobility

Mr. Stiller
10-22-2008, 01:48 AM
how is he wrong its an opinion this is about who wil make the BETTER NFL QB not who is playing better in the ncaa

Usually who "Plays better in college" correlates "Who plays better in the NFL"

His opinion may not be wrong. What Voodoo has pointed out at least 4 times in this thread is:

Not Double Standards but... Hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite) is the act of preaching a certain belief, religion or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself.

Examples:(From the "No-Shon" Thread)

4.4? faster than rashard mendenhall. hmmm. i know he has no holes its always someone elses fault. great players perform against all competion. why couldnt he run? they didnt have 8 in the box all night. they have a qb whos a passing threat. i guess theres no shot he just isnt that good. he wasnt a great runner tonight. its not just one game either. hes physically inferior to top end nfl tailbacks in both size and speed and thats not good

he may get drafted before rd 5, but i wouldnt pick him in any round. you never saw j stew or mendenhall get shut down. great ones dont get shut down at the college level. they may not get 200 every week. but theyre never phantoms.

right on a turf toe when he spent the second half in a walking boot. every other game, he was unstoppable, including several games over 200 on said turf toe. so that ends that. and what j stew did as a young part timer matters not either.by the end it was clear what he was. and its not one bad game. he was bad agaist sc too. so against the two best teams they faced, he underperformed. so when he gets to the nfl and he has a couple ol injuries its going to be ok for him to underperform or have bad games or be invisible? cause its going to happen. because thats the standard. the expectation level never changes. perform every week, preferably against the best. anything less isnt going to get it done

rather than ignore refute if im not correct. he was never a top prospect in my eyes. ever. i dont go by consensus.consensus causes you to draft chris long with the 2nd overall pick. i saw him last year a few times and he looked small and slow. and he is small and slow compared to top nfl tbs. so ive nver considered him. hes eligible this year, i got two games tonight and vs sc, he wasnt great and he looked the same as he did last year. playing for a good team and running for 1k yards doesnt a top nfl tb make. theirs a physical pedigree for the position. if youre going to be an undersize guy you have to be pretty much super fast and shifty cause youre not going to hold up at 205 running people over in the nfl. and you need value added skills. a bigger guy can sacrafice a bit of speed because they can take the punishment better and break tackles. if you cant break tackles at the nfl level and youre not fast enough to beat nfl players with your speed, which means really fast, youre notgoing to make it. if i was going to pick a smallish guy id be looking for a cj spiller type who can make big plays and has value added skills. these guys like this cant carry the full time load, so you have to have the big homerun speed and elusiveness and the value added skills. you cant put knowshon moreno out there at this point against nfl competition and perform. he couldnt even do it vs alabama or sc.

(Spiller ran for less against Alabama with his all world speed than Knowshon Did)

well hes suppposed to be a top back, so it would make sense that he would be somewhat effective in pretty much every game. if youre going to use a high pick, wouldnt pro bowls be the expectation? if you agree he doesnt have pro bowl potential why would you use a rd 1 pick?

Josh Freeman is supposedly good enough to be a round 1 pick but.. He lost to Louisville, Texas Tech, and Colorado.

In those 3 games he was: 55/111 49.5% 720yards 4TDs, 2 Picks

Decent #'s but they say that while he made Big plays... He also was inconsistent.I would venture to say he wasn't reall effective against TTU/Colorado. Especially to losing to them.


Then he continues to say "Knowshon having a Poor Oline is a joke of an excuse for why his play is the way it is"..

Then uses this nugget:

again its already in the equation. hes not winning. hes not elevating his team. but lets at least agree its not a very good team. they dont have a player who would start for georgia. moreno lacks the physical skills required of a top nfl back, hes on a good team, and hes been bad in games. freeman hasnt been bad. they just havent been winning. is that on him, surely. its absolutely hurting him. it doesnt seem to hurt knowshon moreno when hes bad. his lack of size/spoeed coimbo and his poor play dont seem to be devaluing him. i see freeman exactly where he should be and valued according to his physical abilities and what hes done on the field. i dont seem to see that devaluing in knowshon moreno and many of the ohter hyped prospects. no matter how bad they play or whatever physical abilities they lack. its just like this guys great well he had 8 for 30 that doesnt matter hes still great. so i see freeman as being fairly devalued. moreno hasnt been devalued nearly enough

Having a poor team around him is why Freeman isn't winning, but Having a Poor Oline is a joke of an excuse for why Knowshon is strugglign.. GTFO.





throw it in whoevers face when the draft is over and each have actually have taken an nfl snap.

Then why even discuss it now? Tell Myth to stop making threads if, in fact, there's no point in debating until after the draft.

fact of the matter is there are some who think freeman is the player that has the most potential out of any qb this year and his arm strength and accuracy is on par with staffords look at the completion %
second of all 13 tds to 0 is better mobility

There is. There were also people believing that Tony Mandarich, Mike Mamula, Robert Gallery would be 3 of the most dominant Players of all time.

Rushing TD's from a QB isn't the only sign of mobility. How well does he move around in the pocket, how does he adjust to where the pressure, how smooth is he in getting away from the pressure, ETC. No one is claiming Stafford to be a better running back candidate.. which is all that those Rushing TD #'s prove.

Then again. I wonder what Staffords #'s would look like if the 3 hardest teams he had to play all year were TTU, Colorado and Louisville. And I would love to See Freemans #'s against SEC teams.




Response is in color in the actual Quote.

CashmoneyDrew
10-22-2008, 02:01 AM
how is he wrong its an opinion this is about who wil make the BETTER NFL QB not who is playing better in the ncaa



Please do research before responding. I've never ever said that his opinions are wrong. I've said that he holds ridiculous double standards when making his decisions about players and that's where he is wrong. You can't say Knowshon Moreno is terrible because he racks up his stats against inferior competition and then go out and champion Josh Freeman when he has racked up his stats against lower competition. He also says people are making excuses when they say Knowshon runs behind a bad line so it's harder to get production, and then he turns around and says we should all agree that Josh Freeman should get the benefit of the doubt because of the team he plays with. There. That is why he is ridiculous.

CroomDawgs
10-22-2008, 10:36 AM
Mr. Stiller, Props to you sir

CroomDawgs
10-22-2008, 10:40 AM
see you just did it again


Yea, he did just own u again

eaglesalltheway
10-22-2008, 03:35 PM
Yea, he did just own u again

I have given out to much rep, but i'm sure our paths will cross again.