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View Full Version : Are there any 'Elites' this year?


Xiomera
10-19-2008, 01:44 PM
What do you guys think? Are there any "Elite," can't miss talents this year?

This draft looks relatively weak, IMO. How do you think it compares to last year?

Thoughts?

regoob2
10-19-2008, 01:47 PM
Oher and Monroe. Maybe Stafford and Bradford if they come out. Duke Robinson is an elite OG prospect. Maybe Maualuga(sp) and Liarunatis. (sp)

Brent
10-19-2008, 01:48 PM
It feels weak but I am sure that someone will pull ahead of the pack. It is kind of early.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-19-2008, 01:49 PM
In the senior class, probably not. And it's hard to name any elite prospects right now, because so much of that tag relies on how they go through the draft gauntlet.

I'd say that, at the very least, both Michael Oher and Andre Smith have a shot, as would Stafford if he came out. One would also figure that perhaps a player like Orakpo or Hardy might stand a chance.

regoob2
10-19-2008, 01:51 PM
In the senior class, probably not. And it's hard to name any elite prospects right now, because so much of that tag relies on how they go through the draft gauntlet.

I'd say that, at the very least, both Michael Oher and Andre Smith have a shot, as would Stafford if he came out. One would also figure that perhaps a player like Orakpo or Hardy might stand a chance.
Andre Smith is not elite.

619
10-19-2008, 01:51 PM
Orakpo is looking more and more 'elite' every week ...

Yatta!
10-19-2008, 01:52 PM
I'd say Oher is the only one so far but its still reletively early in the process. I'd expect some of the underclassmen to make it into that category by the time the draft comes around.

keylime_5
10-19-2008, 01:52 PM
I think Wells, Jenkins, and Davis are elite prospects but that is very very arguable.

I don't think any of the tackles are, though they are all pretty good. I think Jason Smith might be the best tackle in this draft class over Monroe, Andre, and Oher (from the one game I've seen him and what I've heard from other people including Aaron Curry in his interview.)

d34ng3l021
10-19-2008, 01:55 PM
As of now, I would say the OTs and DEs have the best chance. Orakpo seems he will be getting it. Maybe Greg Hardy. After him, I might say Michael Oher and Eugene Monroe. Maybe Bradford.

I am becoming more and more wary of Stafford.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 01:58 PM
For those of you who say Stafford is or could easily be 'Elite,', where do you rank him with guys like Matt Ryan, JaMarcus Russell, and Brady Quinn of the last two years . . .

Mr.Regular
10-19-2008, 01:58 PM
Oher is elite. Wells is close if he comes out Id say too.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-19-2008, 02:00 PM
Andre Smith is not elite.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think he's having the best year of the consensus three top offensive tackles and has done all he can to prove that he'll be able to play left tackle in the NFL.

For those of you who say Stafford is or could easily be 'Elite,', where do you rank him with guys like Matt Ryan, JaMarcus Russell, and Brady Quinn of the last two years . . .

For me, right now, he'd be behind Ryan and Russell and slightly ahead of Quinn. The thing with Stafford is that he obviously needs more development. However, NFl teams are going to like the idea of developing him themselves instead of waiting a year for the Georgia staff to do it. He won't be much of a first year starter, but of all the possible quarterbacks that could be in this draft, he's the only one who I think could deserve to go top 5.

619
10-19-2008, 02:02 PM
For those of you who say Stafford is or could easily be 'Elite,', where do you rank him with guys like Matt Ryan, JaMarcus Russell, and Brady Quinn of the last two years . . .

I'll try to be as objective as possible here.

1. Russell
2. Stafford
3a Ryan
3b Quinn

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 02:19 PM
For me, right now, he'd be behind Ryan and Russell and slightly ahead of Quinn. The thing with Stafford is that he obviously needs more development. However, NFl teams are going to like the idea of developing him themselves instead of waiting a year for the Georgia staff to do it. He won't be much of a first year starter, but of all the possible quarterbacks that could be in this draft, he's the only one who I think could deserve to go top 5.

Yeah, if only I had confidence that the Lions would give Stafford time. Sticking him behind our atrocious O-Line is also a scary thought.

d34ng3l021
10-19-2008, 02:42 PM
For those of you who say Stafford is or could easily be 'Elite,', where do you rank him with guys like Matt Ryan, JaMarcus Russell, and Brady Quinn of the last two years . . .

I don't think he could easily be elite anymore, but here are my rankings.

1. Russell
2. Ryan
3. Stafford
4. Quinn

Russell has immense physical tools. He had a great arm and was still accurate. Ryan's intangibles put him in a class of his own. Stafford has a bit of both, but is inconsistent and has yet to show me a full game where he just takes over. That is what worries me.

He has the tools to be a great QB though. It really is on the coaching staff on how he will become.

regoob2
10-19-2008, 02:45 PM
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think he's having the best year of the consensus three top offensive tackles and has done all he can to prove that he'll be able to play left tackle in the NFL.

Hasn't he given up the most sacks though? He would be a much better RT.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-19-2008, 03:05 PM
Hasn't he given up the most sacks though? He would be a much better RT.

I can't find anywhere that tracks sacks surrendered in college football, so I'm going off what I've seen and heard from reliable sources. I know that Oher has been playing very well as has Smith, while Monroe has been more incosistent than you'd like.

I think Smith could wind up going #1 overall depending on who picks, but I'm higher on him than most.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 03:32 PM
I can't find anywhere that tracks sacks surrendered in college football, so I'm going off what I've seen and heard from reliable sources. I know that Oher has been playing very well as has Smith, while Monroe has been more incosistent than you'd like.

I think Smith could wind up going #1 overall depending on who picks, but I'm higher on him than most.

Detroit would only use its #1 overall pick on an OT if he could unquestionably play LT in the NFL.

Even then I don't think they'd take another OT despite their horrible line.

Cigaro
10-19-2008, 03:33 PM
I think Oher is far from elite. If he could consistently play at his top, then yes, but he doesn't.

bearsfan_51
10-19-2008, 03:35 PM
You're my can't miss talent Xio.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 03:36 PM
orakpo
kindle
cody if not seriously injured

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 03:36 PM
You're my can't miss talent Xio.


Uhhhh . . . I, ummm . . . Thanks?

Staubach12
10-19-2008, 03:42 PM
I hate the term 'can't miss.' Anyone can be a miss, however, there are elite prospects: Michael Oher, James Laurinaitis, Rey Maualuga

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 03:44 PM
I hate the term 'can't miss.' Anyone can be a miss, however, there are elite prospects: Michael Oher, James Laurinaitis, Rey Maualuga

I think Laurinaitis is overrated. He hasn't been the playmaker he's billed to be in the OSU games I've watched this year,

Saints-Tigers
10-19-2008, 03:50 PM
I think Oher, SMith, Monroe and Robinson are all elite prospects for the position they play.

Too be honest, they are really the only prospects that are combining elite upside and potential with great production, Monroe less so.

I'm really high on all of them though. I don't think Maualuga or Laurinaitis qualify, both have question marks that takes them from absolute elite ranking, like an AJ Hawk for instance.

Matt Stafford just needs to add a little consistency, and he'll be an elite prospect easily IMO.

STARHEATHER
10-19-2008, 03:51 PM
laurinitis, maaluga. right. elite nfl players. i heard the same things about glenn dorsey chris long etc etc. youre honestly going to sit there and say that maaluga and laurinitis are better football players than kindle or orakpo. i mean those guys are the truth. every game they dominate and do freaky stuff. every game maaluga and laurinitis miss tackles and give up gaping plays. although i do somewhat like laurinitis as a mid rd selection. maaluga i wouldnt bring him within 50 miles of my team unless he was coming in on another team so we could run over him all day

Babylon
10-19-2008, 04:01 PM
For those of you who say Stafford is or could easily be 'Elite,', where do you rank him with guys like Matt Ryan, JaMarcus Russell, and Brady Quinn of the last two years . . .

I think in terms of accuracy and arm strength Stafford is the best of that group and yes he would be a perfect fit for the Lions.

ThePudge
10-19-2008, 07:42 PM
I don't see Stafford as elite. Not yet. Does he have the tools and experience against top competition? Absolutely. However, production wise he's not an elite prospect at all. He has shown improvement each of his years at Georgia and has developed greatly from an erratic freshman QB. He needs to show me more this year in SEC play. He's more of a 5-10 value than a 1-5 to me at this point.

The closest to elite prospects, to me, are Malcolm Jenkins at Cornerback and Chris Wells at Running Back.

I know these players happen to both be Ohio State Buckeyes, but they happen to all be tremendous prospects. Each have flaws but as far as their positions go, they could be regarded as elite.

Wells has a combination of size and speed that can't be matched. A 6'1 235 back shouldn't be able to outrun SEC defenses or jump over defenders. He should be able to deliver a hit, carry thirty times a game, which he has shown he can do. Sometimes he tries to be a bit too much of finesse back though, but he usually snaps out of it. He has minor durability issues as well, though he rarely suffers major injuries. He's had some issues also with fumbling, though he's improved there. Still, he's a special talent with tools to be an excellent NFL back. His best fit would be as a two down back seeing as he does get nicked up and he's inexperienced as a receiver out of the backfield. Cincinnati makes sense as Chris Perry is more suited for a 3rd Down role. Cleveland also makes sense as Jamal Lewis isn't producing big plays like he used to.

Malcolm Jenkins is having a phenomenal season and has some truly elite tools. Jenkins has the size, has the speed, and the experience. He's also played in more big games than most college players can dream of. He's a playmaker. Jenkins is next in the line of elite Ohio State CB's to go pro. He has the ball skills and is a willing defender against the run. Because he is a Cornerback he probably won't be a Top 5 pick though.

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 07:42 PM
Oher, Monroe, Lauranatis, Mauluga don't overthink the two LBS

jnew76
10-19-2008, 08:48 PM
I have a few that have seperated themselves from the pack so far -

My rankings are always a little different from most, but here are my

"ELITE EIGHT"

1. Brian Orakpo
2. Sam Bradford
3. Malcolm Jenkins
4. Aaron Curry
5. Michael Crabtree
6. Andre Smith
7. Michael Oher
8. Matthew Stafford

Sniper
10-19-2008, 08:50 PM
James Laurinaitis is the most elite pile jumper in the draft, and probably the best pile jumper in the past 10 years. His ability to watch others do the dirty work and then hop on the pile at the end of the play is astounding, as if his propensity for making tackles 10+ yards downfield.

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 08:51 PM
James Laurinaitis is the most elite pile jumper in the draft, and probably the best pile jumper in the past 10 years. His ability to watch others do the dirty work and then hop on the pile at the end of the play is astounding, as if his propensity for making tackles 10+ yards downfield. The yearly overanaylzer

Sniper
10-19-2008, 08:53 PM
The yearly overanaylzer

No, he's just not that good. He's had INTs gift-wrapped for him in the past, he rarely makes plays at or behind the LOS, and he hasn't shed a block since 1981.

jnew76
10-19-2008, 08:54 PM
The closest to elite prospects, to me, are Malcolm Jenkins at Cornerback and Chris Wells at Running Back

Pudge - I completely agree with Malcolm Jenkins. Where I personally think Wells falls short as an elite prospect is that he is not a good receiver out of the backfield. I really like him as a prospect and think he will be a productive pro, but his inability to be on the field in passing situations in the NFL lowers his value to me. Am I underestimating his pass catching ability? I don't think so. But id I am wrong let me know.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 08:57 PM
Of course the Lions choose this season to be awful. No truly elite talents, IMO. It's like the last time they won this few games. They won 2 games in MM's first season and it just so happened the Texans entered the league that year and the Panthers went 1-15 to get Julius Peppers. We got consolation prize John Joseph Harrington III.

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 09:00 PM
Pudge - I completely agree with Malcolm Jenkins. Where I personally think Wells falls short as an elite prospect is that he is not a good receiver out of the backfield. I really like him as a prospect and think he will be a productive pro, but his inability to be on the field in passing situations in the NFL lowers his value to me. Am I underestimating his pass catching ability? I don't think so. But id I am wrong let me know. I sort of agree with you but it might be that he is underutiliaed in the passing game.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 09:04 PM
James Laurinaitis is the most elite pile jumper in the draft, and probably the best pile jumper in the past 10 years. His ability to watch others do the dirty work and then hop on the pile at the end of the play is astounding, as if his propensity for making tackles 10+ yards downfield.

He was really good against MSU on saturday, his balance and pursuit is top notch. I like the way he has played hard throughout his career at Ohio State, some guys sort of drift in and out of their playing careers but he is very consistant. Right now he would be the first LB taken if i had to predict.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 09:06 PM
He was really good against MSU on saturday, his balance and pursuit is top notch. I like the way he has played hard throughout his career at Ohio State, some guys sort of drift in and out of their playing careers but he is very consistant. Right now he would be the first LB taken if i had to predict.

He is incredibly soft...Like, almost Morgan Trent soft.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 09:07 PM
Of course the Lions choose this season to be awful. No truly elite talents, IMO. It's like the last time they won this few games. They won 2 games in MM's first season and it just so happened the Texans entered the league that year and the Panthers went 1-15 to get Julius Peppers. We got consolation prize John Joseph Harrington III.


You wont have to worry about any consolation prizes this year.

jnew76
10-19-2008, 09:08 PM
Of course the Lions choose this season to be awful. No truly elite talents, IMO. It's like the last time they won this few games. They won 2 games in MM's first season and it just so happened the Texans entered the league that year and the Panthers went 1-15 to get Julius Peppers. We got consolation prize John Joseph Harrington III.

At least his last 1rst round WR was Calvin. He is the one elite talent on the team IMO. The new GM has to build from the inside out. What Parcells/Sparano have done to the Dolphins to make them competitive in a lot of games this year is exactly what the Lions need to do IMO. You can see that they are on the same page with personel and scheme. Time to clean house and rebuild the offensive and defensive lines.

princefielder28
10-19-2008, 09:09 PM
Eugene Monroe
Aaron Curry
Brian Orakpo

keylime_5
10-19-2008, 09:16 PM
He is incredibly soft...Like, almost Morgan Trent soft.

Brian Hoyer doesn't think he's soft, especially after James knocked him out of the game after he crushed him on that sack.

please stop spewing stupid crap about JL, he's no AJ Hawk or Patrick Willis but he's a very good LB and very polished and is having another great year and is gonna be a top pick this year and rightfully so. If the draft were held tonight Laurinaiits would be the first middle linebacker taken for sure. The only times he doesn't shed blocks are when the offensive line gets to the second level, against Michigan State and Purdue that didn't happen and he has had 2 fantastic games in a row.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 09:17 PM
Brian Hoyer doesn't think he's soft, especially after James knocked him out of the game after he crushed him on that sack.

please stop spewing stupid crap about JL, he's no AJ Hawk or Patrick Willis but he's a very good LB and very polished and is having another great year and is gonna be a top pick this year and rightfully so. If the draft were held tonight Laurinaiits would be the first middle linebacker taken for sure.

Brian Hoyer is awful at quarterbacking and at life.

Please get off Laurinaitis' knob. He's not that good. He can't ******* shed blocks, he doesn't make plays behind the LOS, like ever, and he gets handed INTs.

BamaFalcon59
10-19-2008, 09:20 PM
The only elite player in this draft is Michael Oher. I would place Andre Smith right behind him and then Eugene Monroe.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:23 PM
The fact that we can't come to any sort of a consensus means that there are no players worthy of top 3 selections . . .

illmatic74
10-19-2008, 09:27 PM
I forgot sam Bradford if he enters.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 09:28 PM
The fact that we can't come to any sort of a consensus means that there are no players worthy of top 3 selections . . .

All you have to focus on there in Detroit is two words, Matthew Stafford. You dont have to worry about global warming or the national debt.......just concentrate on your QB for the next 10 years.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:31 PM
All you have to focus on there in Detroit is two words, Matthew Stafford. You dont have to worry about global warming or the national debt.......just concentrate on your QB for the next 10 years.

I don't like the notion of investing 40 million + in guaranteed money to a QB that is not Elite. He needs another year at Georgia.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 09:33 PM
I don't like the notion of investing 40 million + in guaranteed money to a QB that is not Elite. He needs another year at Georgia.

Draft Brandon Graham. Problem solved!

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:34 PM
Draft Brandon Graham. Problem solved!

Maybe next year. Graham will be pretty good.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 09:35 PM
Maybe next year. Graham will be pretty good.

I'd be shocked if he sticks around.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:37 PM
I'd be shocked if he sticks around.

Really? I can see why he'd leave, but how high would he be drafted?

Hmm . . .

Sniper
10-19-2008, 09:38 PM
Really? I can see why he'd leave, but how high would he be drafted?

Hmm . . .

2nd-3rd? Take the money there? Or stick around for a five win season?

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:40 PM
2nd-3rd? Take the money there? Or stick around for a five win season?

Well, a 5-win season and increased draft stock most likely . . .

Babylon
10-19-2008, 09:43 PM
I don't like the notion of investing 40 million + in guaranteed money to a QB that is not Elite. He needs another year at Georgia.

3 years there and well over 30 starts after this year which is more than Matt Ryan and Jamarcus Russell had. It's not that i say he's elite but Troy Aikman and Peyton Manning seem to think he's elite. If you guys dont want him the Chiefs will be glad to oblige.

jnew76
10-19-2008, 09:44 PM
I don't like the notion of investing 40 million + in guaranteed money to a QB that is not Elite. He needs another year at Georgia.

The great thing about being a Lion fan is that you can draft the best player available that fits your scheme.

I believe that Matt Stafford is not worth a top 3 pick and would avoid him if at all possible. The Lions have to improve in the trenches.

Orakpo or OT that fits the system is the way to go. Both OT and DE are premium positions that warrant the money paid to a top 3 pick.

Orakpo is seperating himself from the pack in my mind. I think he is supremely gifted and might be the best DE since Peppers. What makes it even better is his strength against the run. He is an every down DE immediately for the Lions.

Then package the 2nd pick in the 1rst Rd. for Brady Quinn.

BRAVEHEART
10-19-2008, 09:48 PM
Stafford=Harrington all over again. :(

Babylon
10-19-2008, 09:50 PM
Then package the 2nd pick in the 1rst Rd. for Brady Quinn.[/QUOTE]

That would work, anyone that thinks QB isnt a glaring need there is in total denial. Getting a quality QB not only addresses that problem it gets more production out of your best player, Calvin Johnson. But really does anyone think they can all of a sudden start making intelligent decisions when they havent for decades?. I have all the faith in the world they can screw this up.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:52 PM
That would work, anyone that thinks QB isnt a glaring need there is in total denial. Getting a quality QB not only addresses that problem it gets more production out of your best player, Calvin Johnson. But really does anyone think they can all of a sudden start making intelligent decisions when they havent for decades?. I have all the faith in the world they can screw this up.

I don't think you'll find any Lions fans here that think QB isn't a big need.

Stanton might be OK, but he isn't the answer. Not if we plan to contend ever.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 09:54 PM
I don't think you'll find any Lions fans here that think QB isn't a big need.

Stanton might be OK, but he isn't the answer. Not if we plan to contend ever.

Putting your hopes in the hands of an MSU QB? These are dire times indeed.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:54 PM
Then package the 2nd pick in the 1rst Rd. for Brady Quinn.

With the way Anderson has been playing, I don't envision Quinn being available anymore.

I'd do that kind of deal in a heartbeat.

BigBanger
10-19-2008, 09:54 PM
Stafford=Harrington all over again. :(
Jay Cutler, but I don't see where you're coming from.

He's as elite as elite gets.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:55 PM
Putting your hopes in the hands of an MSU QB? These are dire times indeed.

I'm not a big believer in Stanton, but it will really piss me off if we take Stafford without having given Stanton a shot in this waste of a season. We invested a 2nd round pick on him after all . . .

Babylon
10-19-2008, 09:56 PM
I don't think you'll find any Lions fans here that think QB isn't a big need.

Stanton might be OK, but he isn't the answer. Not if we plan to contend ever.

Just curious who was the last decent Qb they had there?, and dont mention Bobby Lane from back in the 60s.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 09:57 PM
Just curious who was the last decent Qb they had there?, and dont mention Bobby Lane from back in the 60s.

Jeff Smoker? Maybe?

619
10-19-2008, 09:57 PM
My "Elites" ..

1. Brian Orakpo
2. Michael Oher
3. Andre Smith
4. Eugene Monroe
5. Malcolm Jenkins

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:58 PM
Just curious who was the last decent Qb they had there?, and dont mention Bobby Lane from back in the 60s.

Layne was traded away in 1958, and on his way out of town, he was quoted as saying, "The Lions will not win for 50 years." His curse ends this year.

Scott Mitchell had one great season. Erik Kramer took us to a playoff win. But overall, we have been a wasteland for good QB's.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 09:59 PM
Jeff Smoker? Maybe?

I meant with the Lions not Michigan State.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 09:59 PM
Jeff Smoker? Maybe?

I thought the question was for MSU, not the Lions.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 09:59 PM
Jeff Smoker? Maybe?

He was talking about the Lions.

Stanton > Smoker at MSU.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 10:00 PM
He was talking about the Lions.

Stanton > Smoker at MSU.

Smoker actually beat Michigan though.

RaiderNation
10-19-2008, 10:01 PM
1 Bradford QB
2 Mauluga LB
3 Oher OT
4 Smith OT
5 Jenkins CB
6 Sanchez QB
7 Orakpo DE
8 Monroe OT
9 Crabtree WR
10 Wells RB

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 10:03 PM
Smoker actually beat Michigan though.

I argue that he did not.

The infamous T.J. Duckett TD and the home team time-keeper?

Sniper
10-19-2008, 10:04 PM
I argue that he did not.

The infamous T.J. Duckett TD and the home team time-keeper?

Indeed, but it doesn't change the fact that MSU still got credited with the W.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 10:06 PM
Layne was traded away in 1958, and on his way out of town, he was quoted as saying, "The Lions will not win for 50 years." His curse ends this year.

Scott Mitchell had one great season. Erik Kramer took us to a playoff win. But overall, we have been a wasteland for good QB's.

Didnt Rodney Peete play there?

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 10:09 PM
Didnt Rodney Peete play there?

Yes he did.

As did the great Andre Ware, #1 overall pick, haha.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 10:12 PM
Yes he did.

As did the great Andre Ware, #1 overall pick, haha.

On second thought i like Stafford too much as a player to see him end up there.

Stafford is overrated, he's not the tallest player in the world, forces too many passes and really should stay in school for another year. There are much better players for the Lions to be focusing on. Isnt there a Wr out there they could take?

Sniper
10-19-2008, 10:15 PM
On second thought i like Stafford too much as a player to see him end up there.

Stafford is overrated, he's not the tallest player in the world, forces too many passes and really should stay in school for another year. There are much better players for the Lions to be focusing on. Isnt there a Wr out there they could take?

Stop with the WR jokes, for God's sake. They're not even funny.

Saints-Tigers
10-19-2008, 10:15 PM
I forgot about Aaron Curry, I think he is elite for his position. William Moore is borderline, I want to see his measurables first, but he's damn close IMO.

Bruce Banner
10-19-2008, 10:17 PM
Stop with the WR jokes, for God's sake. They're not even funny.

Michigan.


Is that funny?

Sniper
10-19-2008, 10:18 PM
Michigan.


Is that funny?

It was the first 374,671 times you trolled a thread with Michigan jokes. Now, it's getting old.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 10:19 PM
Stop with the WR jokes, for God's sake. They're not even funny.


I didnt think there were any MSU QBs they could take so i suggested they go with what they do best. Anyone but Stafford, he stinks;)

619
10-19-2008, 10:20 PM
It was the first 374,671 times you trolled a thread with Michigan jokes. Now, it's getting old.

Do you guys always go at it ? Jeez.

Babylon
10-19-2008, 10:22 PM
Do you guys always go at it ? Jeez.

Sniper has this thing about punctuation, the Michigan Wolverines and the Eagles ,other than that he's a pretty laid back cat.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 10:23 PM
I didnt think there were any MSU QBs they could take so i suggested they go with what they do best. Anyone but Stafford, he stinks;)

I hate the WR joke too, but the sad truth is that the Lions need to draft one in the first 3 rounds, IMO. McDonald is a free agent and Roy is gone.

I hope to God the Lions just draft the WR with the best KR abilities. No more messing around. The coaching staff needs to wake up to the reality that it is not beneficial to our success by having Furrey back their calling for a fair catch every punt. The field position battle is a huge part of the game.

Sniper
10-19-2008, 10:24 PM
I hate the WR joke too, but the sad truth is that the Lions need to draft one in the first 3 rounds, IMO. McDonald is a free agent and Roy is gone.

I hope to God the Lions just draft the WR with the best KR abilities. No more messing around. The coaching staff needs to wake up to the reality that it is not beneficial to our success by having Furrey back their calling for a fair catch every punt. The field position battle is a huge part of the game.

If you say Derrick Williams, I kill you.

Xiomera
10-19-2008, 10:27 PM
If you say Derrick Williams, I kill you.

Wasn't thinking of anyone in particular. I just don't want to continue wasting draft picks on guys we cut in training camp or keep inactive all season. It should not have been that hard for Millen to at least get a guy with KR abilities. Even if he can't contribute to the team in any other way. Hell, we kept a roster spot for Eddie Drummond after all . . .

Babylon
10-19-2008, 10:30 PM
Wasn't thinking of anyone in particular. I just don't want to continue wasting draft picks on guys we cut in training camp or keep inactive all season. It should not have been that hard for Millen to at least get a guy with KR abilities. Even if he can't contribute to the team in any other way. Hell, we kept a roster spot for Eddie Drummond after all . . .

Ya you guys focus on a wideout or a kick returner, maybe an O-lineman. As long as it isnt some short stocky balding QB out of the U of Georgia.

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 12:12 AM
Pudge - I completely agree with Malcolm Jenkins. Where I personally think Wells falls short as an elite prospect is that he is not a good receiver out of the backfield. I really like him as a prospect and think he will be a productive pro, but his inability to be on the field in passing situations in the NFL lowers his value to me. Am I underestimating his pass catching ability? I don't think so. But id I am wrong let me know.

It could be that he is underutilized, it could be that it's not a strong suit of his. Until his pro day or the combine rolls around we won't know. Ohio State typically doesn't throw much to their backs and Wells is no exception. Adrian Peterson did not catch many balls at Oklahoma and he considered himself simply underutilized. For all we know, this could be a strength of Wells'. Still, with his minor durability issues, I'd rather keep him on the sideline on third and long anyway. He can be a three down back in the NFL, but if you don't have to then why risk it?

I'm not sure it lowers his value, but I know it doesn't help. Still, the raw talent difference between he and the other RB prospects is what sets him apart and makes him elite in my opinion. Watching him is sometimes like watching a man amongst boys.

thebow305
10-20-2008, 12:59 AM
Greg Hardy is looking more ELITE every week.

Matthew Jones
10-20-2008, 01:27 AM
I don't really think there are any elite players in this draft, even among eligible players. Here are my top five prospects off the top of my head:

RB Chris "Beanie" Wells, Ohio St.
OT Andre Smith, Alabama
ILB James Laurinaitis, Ohio St.
ILB Rey Maualuga, Southern Cal
FS William Moore, Missouri

Still, I don't think any of these players are a top-10 lock in any draft, so that makes them short of elite, in my opinion.

jnew76
10-20-2008, 01:33 AM
Greg Hardy is looking more ELITE every week.

He would be on my elite list if he could stay healthy and out of the dog house. Hardy is beastly and is getting better. He has been a little injury prone this year and has had some real problems with coaching.

eaglesalltheway
10-20-2008, 07:02 AM
My "Elite" guys, in no particular order.

OT Michael Oher
OT Eugene Monroe
FS William Moore
CB Malcolm Jenkins
OG Duke Robinson

Guys I don't consider "elite" but are can't miss, also in no particular order...
CB Vontae Davis
RB Chris Wells
DE/OLB Brian Orakpo
C Alex Mack (Only because of his position is he not elite)
OT Andre Smith

sorry I'm a little late, first time on here since Friday.

Sniper
10-20-2008, 08:19 AM
ILB James Laurinaitis, Ohio St.


You should be struck many times in the head with a Louisville Slugger.

rockio42
10-20-2008, 08:27 AM
Greg Hardy is looking more ELITE every week.

How was the imovable object vs. unstoppable force that was Andre Smith vs. Greg Hardy? I wasn't able to catch much of that game (something I regret)

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 09:36 AM
You should be struck many times in the head with a Louisville Slugger.

A Michigan fan trashing an Ohio State player, how surprising.

The fact is Laurinaitis is big, he's athletic, he's smart, has a great work ethic, plays with all kinds of intensity, and has a knack for being at the right place at the right time.

He has 78 Tackles this season in 8 games to go along with 2.5 sacks, a pick, and three Pbu's. Last season he compiled 121 Tackles 8.5 TFL 5.0 Sacks and 2 Int's. In his Sophomore year he put up 115 Tackles 8.5 TFL 4.0 Sacks 5 Int's and 3 FF.

According to you, those 11.5 career sacks to date must have come because the opposing team's Quarterback simply stepped into Laurinaitis and let him get the sack. Those 314 career tackles to date must have been 314 piles he jumped on. And those eight interceptions were all in part to the opposing quarterback mistaking him for one of his own plays.

He's productive, he's a leader, he has all the physical tools you could ask for. His attitude picks up those around him and he's a playmaker on defense. He may not be A.J. Hawk or Patrick Willis, but that does not change the fact that he's an excellent NFL prospect in his own right.

He could go out against Penn State this weekend and record 20 tackles, have a couple sacks, and take an interception back for a Touchdown on national television and you'd find an loophole to discredit him.

He's a very good MLB prospect with production and character to match his physical skills. Whether you like it or not Laurinaitis is a Top 15-20 value, though I too wouldn't peg him as 'elite'.

Sniper
10-20-2008, 09:46 AM
A Michigan fan trashing an Ohio State player, how surprising.

Your wisecrack might, MIGHT even make sense if it weren't for the fact that I'm probably Chris Wells' #1 fan on this board and have repeatedly backed Malcolm Jenkins as the top CB this year.

According to you, those 11.5 career sacks to date must have come because the opposing team's Quarterback simply stepped into Laurinaitis and let him get the sack.

11.5 sacks in three years as a starter? That's really not that impressive.

Those 314 career tackles to date must have been 314 piles he jumped on.

No, but it sure seems like it.

And those eight interceptions were all in part to the opposing quarterback mistaking him for one of his own plays.

Sure seems like it.

His pick this year was the result of good Marcus Freeman coverage. Freeman tipped the ball 476 feet into the air and Laurinaitis just had to camp under it like a center fielder. His two picks last year were against a rookie QB who ended up completing 47% of his passes. His other picks have come against a true freshman in Colt McCoy, Drew Tate, whoever Cincy's QB in '06 was, and Anthony Morelli. You'll excuse me if I don't buy the hype.

He could go out against Penn State this weekend and record 20 tackles, have a couple sacks, and take an interception back for a Touchdown on national television and you'd find an loophole to discredit him.

Probably, because his 20 tackles would all likely be 10 yards downfield after he fails to shed a block, much like his 20 tackle performance against LSU.

http://www.mikeroberto.com/2008/01/14/james-laurinaitis-ohio-states-most-overrated-linebacker-ever/

Read it.

Whoever takes him better make sure they have a ton of good players around him to create piles for him to jump on.

Sniper
10-20-2008, 09:51 AM
When Laurinaitis proves that he can consistently shed blocks, maybe he can be considered elite.

BNad
10-20-2008, 10:13 AM
I hope the draft advisory board thinks Stafford needs a year like several of the other posters here think. I'd be glad to have him back! :)

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 10:29 AM
Your wisecrack might, MIGHT even make sense if it weren't for the fact that I'm probably Chris Wells' #1 fan on this board and have repeatedly backed Malcolm Jenkins as the top CB this year.


11.5 sacks in three years as a starter? That's really not that impressive.


His pick this year was the result of good Marcus Freeman coverage. Freeman tipped the ball 476 feet into the air and Laurinaitis just had to camp under it like a center fielder. His two picks last year were against a rookie QB who ended up completing 47% of his passes. His other picks have come against a true freshman in Colt McCoy, Drew Tate, whoever Cincy's QB in '06 was, and Anthony Morelli. You'll excuse me if I don't buy the hype.


Probably, because his 20 tackles would all likely be 10 yards downfield after he fails to shed a block, much like his 20 tackle performance against LSU.

http://www.mikeroberto.com/2008/01/14/james-laurinaitis-ohio-states-most-overrated-linebacker-ever/

Read it.

Whoever takes him better make sure they have a ton of good players around him to create piles for him to jump on.

For a MLB, two and a half years starting, 11.5 sacks is plenty impressive. The gold standard seems to be Patrick Willis as a MLB. He compiled 11 sacks in three years of starting. His top competition in this draft for the honor of Top MLB is Rey Maualuga. Maualuga regarded as a true playmaker and a superior pass-rusher has compiled 8 Sacks in two and a half seasons of starting. Comparably, one could fairly assume that Laurinaitis is as good, perhaps better than Willis and Maualuga as pass rushers.

How you could put Rey Maualuga above Laurinaitis at this point is beyond me. Laurinaitis offers more in terms of physical ability and more than doubles Maualuga in tackles. Maualuga should probably jump on more piles right? Or maybe he should exercise a bit more discipline against the run and in coverage. You say Laurinaitis doesn't make the plays in the backfield yet, once again, he beats out Maualuga comparitively in both sacks (11.5 to 8) and Tackles for Loss (20 to 16.5)

As for interceptions, this can be a fluke stat anywhere. James Laurinaitis is not the first player to have a ball thrown right to him. His interceptions against Washington, Cincinnati, and Penn State though are fairly impressive for a guy his size though. The guy makes the most of his opportunities and I can't exactly blame him for that, he has a habit of being at the right place at the right time. I can respect that in a Middle Linebacker.

Keep in mind I said Laurinaitis is not elite prospect. I think he has more to learn in terms of shedding blocks as you said. Still, this is something that can be improved and can be taught. His size and athleticism cannot be. His intensity on the field and his focused nature off the field cannot be. His intelligence, leadership, durability, and instincts are also desired traits. He doesn't often miss tackles, he's a wrap up tackler and is a willing hitter. This is why Laurinaitis, to me, is the best Middle Linebacker prospect in this class though I will fully acknowledge he's not without his flaws and I, too, think talk of him as 'elite' is a bit off-base.

He is not perfect, in my opinion he is not elite, but he gets the job done and has a very high ceiling. He's not a Top 5 pick, but if he's selected anywhere from 11th-17th roughly, I think that'd be right. He's a good player that will have to improve in a few areas, but his natural talent should allow him to play pretty early in the NFL.

princefielder28
10-20-2008, 10:31 AM
Greg Hardy is looking more ELITE every week.

Good call, forgot to add him in my list of Eugene Monroe, Aaron Curry, and Brian Orakpo

Sniper
10-20-2008, 10:39 AM
For a MLB, two and a half years starting, 11.5 sacks is plenty impressive. The gold standard seems to be Patrick Willis as a MLB. He compiled 11 sacks in three years of starting. His top competition in this draft for the honor of Top MLB is Rey Maualuga. Maualuga regarded as a true playmaker and a superior pass-rusher has compiled 8 Sacks in two and a half seasons of starting. Comparably, one could fairly assume that Laurinaitis is as good, perhaps better than Willis and Maualuga as pass rushers.

Fair enough on the sacks.

How you could put Rey Maualuga above Laurinaitis at this point is beyond me. Laurinaitis offers more in terms of physical ability and more than doubles Maualuga in tackles. Maualuga should probably jump on more piles right?

Serioiusly, if you disagree with the pile jumping comment, watch an OSU game. Did you read that link I posted? And I don't think Maualuga is the best MLB.


Or maybe he should exercise a bit more discipline against the run and in coverage. You say Laurinaitis doesn't make the plays in the backfield yet, once again, he beats out Maualuga comparitively in Tackles for Loss (20 to 16.5)

Look at some of the TFL numbers from past top MLB prospects (off the top of my head)

Dave Harris '06: 15.0 TFL
Paul Posluszny '06: 9.5 TFL
Dan Connor '07: 15.0 TFL
Patrick Willis '06: 11.5 TFL

Laurinaitis' career best is 8.5.

He also plays too soft.

P-L
10-20-2008, 11:06 AM
The fact is Laurinaitis is big, he's athletic, he's smart, has a great work ethic, plays with all kinds of intensity, and has a knack for being at the right place at the right time.
Yeah, all that is cool but that doesn't make him elite or even a top ten pick. He also can't shed a block to save his life, constantly over-pursues, usually is the "second guy" in on the play, and rarely makes solo tackles within four or five yards of the line of scrimmage. Not to mention that his play is too inconsistent from game to game. For every game he has like the Michigan State game, he has a game like the Wisconsin game, which I don't think the announcers called his name once despite making some tackles.

Only 40% of Laurinaitis' career tackles are solo tackles. Look at other highly rated LB's in the draft. Aaron Curry has a percentage of 63% of solo tackles, Rey Maualuga has a percentage of 57%, Marcus Freeman has a percentage of 55%, and Brian Cushing has a percentage of 53%. I cannot remember a linebacker rated as highly as Laurinaitis who relied on others as much as he does.

This assesment has nothing to do with me being a Michigan fan. Like Sniper, I give respect to any Ohio State player who earns it. Chris Wells, check; Malcolm Jenkins, check; Vernon Gholston (last year), check; James Laurinaitis, not so much.

Bruce Banner
10-20-2008, 11:11 AM
It was the first 374,671 times you trolled a thread with Michigan jokes. Now, it's getting old.

Better than "zomg Woodley" "zomg Braylon" "zomg Hart" 500,000 times. THAT gets old.

It does raise an interesting question.

Which is the worst?
Constant Ryan Howard/AL/DH/Red Sox hating, Michigan "trolling", or "zomg Michigan"?

Do you guys always go at it ? Jeez.

Indeed.

Babylon
10-20-2008, 11:19 AM
I hope the draft advisory board thinks Stafford needs a year like several of the other posters here think. I'd be glad to have him back! :)

Why would he need another year? He will have about the same amount of starts that Matt Ryan did in 4 years at BC, will probably have the same porous O-line problems and would be passing up a most likely top 5 spot in the draft. No chance he comes back.

P-L
10-20-2008, 11:20 AM
My "elites" are:

Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State (Not in the Bush, Peterson, McFadden group but not too far behind)
Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma (I thought he was the best tight end in the country last year as a sophomore)
Sen'Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn (I'm higher on this guy than most. Right now, he's easily a top ten pick in my book)
Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest (Best OLB since A.J. Hawk in my opinion)
Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois (Still a bit raw, but has more potential than any corner I've seen in a long time)
Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State (Very, very good and very, very consistent throughout his career)

- Matt Stafford is up there. I don't think he's truly "elite" just yet, but he's close. He could be on this list by the end of the season.
- Eugene Monroe and Andre Smith both just missed. If Monroe plays with a little more consistency for the rest of the season he'll make the list. Smith just needs to continue playing like he is.

Sniper
10-20-2008, 12:18 PM
Better than "zomg Woodley" "zomg Braylon" "zomg Hart" 500,000 times. THAT gets old.

It does raise an interesting question.

Which is the worst?
Constant Ryan Howard/AL/DH/Red Sox hating, Michigan "trolling", or "zomg Michigan"?



Indeed.

Option A. Woodley and Braylon are sick, and Hart, yeah well, he was averaging 9 yptouch!

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Yeah, all that is cool but that doesn't make him elite or even a top ten pick. He also can't shed a block to save his life, constantly over-pursues, usually is the "second guy" in on the play, and rarely makes solo tackles within four or five yards of the line of scrimmage. Not to mention that his play is too inconsistent from game to game. For every game he has like the Michigan State game, he has a game like the Wisconsin game, which I don't think the announcers called his name once despite making some tackles.

Only 40% of Laurinaitis' career tackles are solo tackles. Look at other highly rated LB's in the draft. Aaron Curry has a percentage of 63% of solo tackles, Rey Maualuga has a percentage of 57%, Marcus Freeman has a percentage of 55%, and Brian Cushing has a percentage of 53%. I cannot remember a linebacker rated as highly as Laurinaitis who relied on others as much as he does.

This assesment has nothing to do with me being a Michigan fan. Like Sniper, I give respect to any Ohio State player who earns it. Chris Wells, check; Malcolm Jenkins, check; Vernon Gholston (last year), check; James Laurinaitis, not so much.

You have to read my entire post, especially the part that even specifically states I do not think Laurinaitis is elite, I do not consider him, at this point, to be a Top 10 pick. I think early teens-early twenties right now is the right call. But once again, Laurinaitis has those traits that you just can't teach, his flaws are correctable. Far from perfect, but still a very good NFL prospect.

I am sorry though to Sniper as I too recognize the fact that he is a Wells fan and has been. I will give a Michigan player credit when I feel it is due as well: an example being the much-maligned Chad Henne as an NFL prospect

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 12:54 PM
Serioiusly, if you disagree with the pile jumping comment, watch an OSU game. Did you read that link I posted? And I don't think Maualuga is the best MLB.

He also plays too soft.

I watch Ohio State games every week considering I go to school in Ohio and almost every TV in the state is tuned in each week to the Ohio State game, no matter where you are in the state.

This year I've sat and watched Ohio State play Ohio University (my school), USC, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin, and Michigan State.

Last season I got the chance to see Youngstown State, Washington, Minnesota, Purdue, Michigan State, Illinois, Michigan, LSU (unfortunately), and watched the Penn State game and Wisconsin games first hand.

During Laurinaitis' Sophomore season I watched the Texas game, Penn State, Iowa, Michigan State, Illinois, Michigan, and Florida (unfortunately once again).

I watch Ohio State a lot, perhaps too much even. I have seen Laurinaitis play lights out, I have seen him struggle. He's a more raw talent than the media will tell you, but as an NFL prospect, he's a good one. I have seen him fly around the field making tackle after tackle and delivering big hit after big hit, and I've also seen him disappear for stretches at a time. He has big time potential though, and the work ethic to get him there.

He needs to leave Ohio State. They have taught him everything they can and simply pat him on the shoulder when things are working. He needs some tough love, some teaching to fulfill that potential.

He should be a good NFL Linebacker though don't underestimate the fact that despite his production, he is a bit raw still and needs to improve. Still, he has the frame, athletic ability, and work ethic to get there, which is why I think he's a good prospect at the next level.

D-Unit
10-20-2008, 01:47 PM
I don't see anyone worth a Top 3 pick in most drafts.

Xiomera
10-20-2008, 01:59 PM
I don't see anyone worth a Top 3 pick in most drafts.

Do you mean that in terms of the money teams have to dish out?

Number 10
10-20-2008, 02:11 PM
Andre Smith is not elite.

Neither are the two LBs you mentioned. I would say Smith is closer to elite than both of them.

P-L
10-20-2008, 02:13 PM
I think I agree with D-Unit. I pointed out six guys who I thought were elite. However, I don't think any of those six guys are worth a top three pick in most drafts. Overall, I think this draft lacks top talent. With enough underclassmen, it could become very deep though.

Number 10
10-20-2008, 02:18 PM
As for me-

I am not done with my midterm grading but the guys I have in the 90's...which are the elite prospects according to my own grading scale are-

Aaron Curry - OLB - Wake Forest

Michael Crabtree - WR - Texas Tech

Vontae Davis - CB - Illinois

There are a few guys on the cusp but I need to see a bit more before I put them on that list. Not a top heavy draft.

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 02:48 PM
Do you mean that in terms of the money teams have to dish out?

That statement could be meant both in that financial perspective and, maybe more so, from a talent standpoint.

The consensus top Running Back prospect Chris "Beanie" Wells is slightly below last year's top RB Darren McFadden at this point.

The top Quarterback, Matthew Stafford, is still not the prospect Matt Ryan was.

Neither Andre Smith, Michael Oher, or Eugene Monroe are as productive or imposing as Jake Long.

Jerod Mayo holds just a bit of an advantage over James Laurinaitis. Keith Rivers, likewise, is a slightly better prospect than Aaron Curry.

Chris Long and Vernon Gholston may both be superior to Greg Hardy, Brian Orakpo, Michael Johnson, and Tyson Jackson as NFL prospects.

Glenn Dorsey is clearly a better prospect than SenDerrick Marks is at this point.

At the top, it seems this draft is more comparable to 2005 than to 2006, 2007, or even 2008. It is stronger than 2005, but as I said the talent at the top isn't what it was the past few years.

The depth of the draft is what helps it, or so it seems. Still the draft is rich with Offensive Tackles, Centers, Middle Linebackers, has a few strong Cornerbacks, and could wind up being the top draft for Tight Ends in a few years. Unfortunately for the Cincinnati Bengals, the real value of this draft will come outside the Top 4 or 5 it seems.

Mid First-Early Third could be the strength of the 2009 draft. This all could change though... It is early

Saints-Tigers
10-20-2008, 02:53 PM
I would have taken Stafford over Ryan, and I would take Oher and Smith over Jake Long too.

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 03:15 PM
I would have taken Stafford over Ryan, and I would take Oher and Smith over Jake Long too.

Not many people here liked Matt Ryan. I was one that loved him. I was told I was crazy when I listed him as my #1 or 2 prospect in the 2008 draft. He was a gutsy player with physical tools, mental tools, and leadership out the ass. He won his team games. Without Ryan, that BC team may not have made a bowl game last season. Matt Ryan did a lot with a little. So far, my faith in Matt Ryan has been proven right (for the time being) as his Falcons team would likely not be 4-2 with Chris Redman starting.

I need to see Stafford take over a game. It's tough when you have the running game and defense Georgia has to really separate yourself as the one that won the game for his team. Still, I see a lot of improvement still needed in Stafford. I'm excited to see the Florida, LSU, and Auburn games. I won't make any rash, definitive call, but as of this moment I think Matt Ryan was a better prospect than Matthew Stafford is.

D-Unit
10-20-2008, 03:24 PM
I would have taken Stafford over Ryan, and I would take Oher and Smith over Jake Long too.
I would've taken Brady Quinn and Aaron Rodgers before Ryan. Saying Stafford over Ryan isn't saying much. If Ryan wasn't taken by ATL, he would've fell.

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 03:27 PM
I would've taken Brady Quinn and Aaron Rodgers before Ryan. Saying Stafford over Ryan isn't saying much. If Ryan wasn't taken by ATL, he would've fell.

Hard to say because the Chiefs at 5 and Ravens at 8 were sniffing around. You figure if the Falcons passed up Ryan, they'd take Dorsey, leaving Ryan as the likely choice at #5 for Kansas City.

derza222
10-20-2008, 03:43 PM
Hard to say because the Chiefs at 5 and Ravens at 8 were sniffing around. You figure if the Falcons passed up Ryan, they'd take Dorsey, leaving Ryan as the likely choice at #5 for Kansas City.

Jets at 6 were sniffing around Ryan quite a bit too. On one hand it's tough to tell how genuine that was but on the other hand they clearly weren't all that happy with their quarterback situation this offseason so both at the time and in retrospect it wouldn't have been shocking for the Jets to take Ryan if he was available.

BamaFalcon59
10-20-2008, 04:19 PM
I would've taken Brady Quinn and Aaron Rodgers before Ryan. Saying Stafford over Ryan isn't saying much. If Ryan wasn't taken by ATL, he would've fell.

The Ravens offered a lot to trade up for Ryan. The Jets and possibily the Chiefs wanted him as well. He would not have fell far. Certainly not past the Ravens, who would have traded up past the Jets and Chiefs to get him.

Saints-Tigers
10-20-2008, 05:30 PM
I would've taken Brady Quinn and Aaron Rodgers before Ryan. Saying Stafford over Ryan isn't saying much. If Ryan wasn't taken by ATL, he would've fell.

I would have taken Quinn over him too, not Rodgers though, he's actually become a lot better than I ever thought he would.

I was just showing what parts of his post I disagreed with. I'm still not entirely sold on Ryan anyway, he's playing well, but I want to see what happens when the going gets really tough. Thus far though, he's making the grade, and he's certainly come out a lot better than I thought he would.

ThePudge
10-20-2008, 06:05 PM
I would have taken Quinn over him too, not Rodgers though, he's actually become a lot better than I ever thought he would.

I was just showing what parts of his post I disagreed with. I'm still not entirely sold on Ryan anyway, he's playing well, but I want to see what happens when the going gets really tough. Thus far though, he's making the grade, and he's certainly come out a lot better than I thought he would.

Ryan's team wasn't expected to have 4 wins all season. They have four already. Ryan's performance late in the game against Chicago shows you the X-Factor he had coming out of college. I don't see that factor in Stafford yet.

hockey619
10-20-2008, 10:43 PM
Andre Smith has earned himself an Elite grade in my eyes, and I think he should get some consieration for the Heisman.

Dont laugh, his team is second in the nation behind a great running game from some young players and a solid passing game. When you can plug in any of your backs and theyre all going out and running all over him the opposition, that reflects on the line.

Watching him personally, he has dominated, especially noticeably in the run game. I know he's not a lock to play left tackle at the next level, but I dont think that should hurt his status. Hes played well enough in pass protection to merit consideration for left tackle at the least, and I think regardless he would dominate inside at guard.

Its a tough argument, but I think that earns him the elite tag.

MarioPalmer
10-20-2008, 11:20 PM
I don't know about elites, but teams picking in the top 15 this year are in for a treat.

No order:

Rey Maualuga
James Laurintis (spelling??)
Vontae Davis
William Moore
Andre Smith
Michael Oher
DaMarcus Granger (if he declares and his injury isn't a problem)
Aaron Curry
Eugene Monroe
Michael Crabtree
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Sam Bradford
Darius Heyward-Bey
Michael Jenkins
Duke Robinson
George Selvie
Brian Orkopo
Chris Wells
Jermaine Gresham
Brandon Pettigrew
Sergio Kindle
Greg Hardy
Brian Cushing
Alex Mack
Jonathan Luigis

I mean there is something for everyone. There isn't a shortage at any position this up coming year with maybe the exception at DT. But the DT spot could be filled with late 1rst and early 2nd rounders. This is going to be a very deep draft and I can't wait.

CashmoneyDrew
10-20-2008, 11:34 PM
The draft could be terrible talent wise and I'd still look forward to it.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-20-2008, 11:55 PM
No one as of yet has established themselves as an elite prospect. It would appear that the linemen are the potentially strongest group, so it wouldn't surprise me if one of them earns the title by April.

Bruce Banner
10-20-2008, 11:57 PM
Damn MP. When you list them out like that it shows you the depth of first round talent.

MarioPalmer
10-21-2008, 12:06 AM
The draft could be terrible talent wise and I'd still look forward to it.

But you know what I mean. This draft looks very good and could rival the 2004 Draft as far as overall talent goes and how deep the talent is at all the positions.

Like I said, I mentioned the tops of the tops and I didn't even the mention the tier 2 guys that could turn into All-Pros.

Michael Johnson
Josh Freeman
Rico McCoy
Tray Blackmon
Vincent Ohgobaase
Everette Brown
Jeremy Maclin
Percy Harvin
Derrick Williams
Fili Maola
Taylor Mays
Patrick Chung
Brandon Spikes
C.J. Spiller
Knowshon Moreno
LeSean McCoy
Boo Robonson
Alex Boone
Javon Springer
Travis Beckum
James Davis
Tim Tebow
Chase Coffman
Phil Loadholt
Ciron Black
Clint Sintim
Sean Weatherspoon
Greg Middleton
Tyson Jackson
Herman Johnson
Jamon Meridith
Jason Smith
Maurice Evans
Matt Shaughnessy
Auston English
Peria Jerry
Terrance Taylor
Geno Atkins
Sen Derrick Marks
B.J. Raji
Ricky Jean Francois
Trevard Lindley
Darius Butler
Myron Rolle
Kam Chanceller
Macho Harris

MarioPalmer
10-21-2008, 12:07 AM
Damn MP. When you list them out like that it shows you the depth of first round talent.

Thats just the top guys, my 2nd list is the border line 1rst and all 2nd and beginning of the 3rd.

This draft is gonna rival other top drafts. The one thing I don't see tho is an elite top end defensive end like a Mario or Julius. But Johnson or Hardy could really fly up the boards come combine and pre-draft workouts.

Sniper
10-21-2008, 12:11 AM
Derrick Williams


Not to pick on you, but this is getting absurd. I've never seen a four year starter with only one 100 yard game (Temple), six receiving TDs and no multiple receiving TD games get as much hype as Williams. Furthermore, he isn't a deep threat. He has a career 10.8 ypc average. That's pathetic. So what makes this guy so good that I'm missing?

Bruce Banner
10-21-2008, 12:12 AM
Not to pick on you, but this is getting absurd. I've never seen a four year starter with only one 100 yard game (Temple), six receiving TDs and no multiple receiving TD games get as much hype as Williams. Furthermore, he isn't a deep threat. He has a career 10.8 ypc average. That's pathetic. So what makes this guy so good that I'm missing?

Right now, 4th round at best.

CC.SD
10-21-2008, 12:20 AM
The only player I believe will be truly elite as a prospect is Michael Crabtree. sue me.

tjsunstein
10-21-2008, 12:46 AM
The only player I believe will be truly elite as a prospect is Michael Crabtree. sue me.

Agreed. There are some very good but hes the only elite as far as Im concerned.

CashmoneyDrew
10-21-2008, 12:53 AM
The only player I believe will be truly elite as a prospect is Michael Crabtree. sue me.

Sigh.... And the Titans won't be anywhere close to picking him.

d34ng3l021
10-21-2008, 01:04 AM
With the way the Falcons are playing, they wont be either. Lame. I was looking forward to a White-Crabtree combo.

Flyboy
10-21-2008, 01:10 AM
The only player I believe will be truly elite as a prospect is Michael Crabtree. sue me.

Word, brother. I thought I was the only one who thought so as well. Then again, I am biased in that regard.

CashmoneyDrew
10-21-2008, 01:17 AM
With the way the Falcons are playing, they wont be either. Lame. I was looking forward to a White-Crabtree combo.

Don't get selfish. I'd be happy with just one really good WR.

eaglesalltheway
10-21-2008, 06:58 AM
My "elites" are:

Chris Wells, RB, Ohio State (Not in the Bush, Peterson, McFadden group but not too far behind)
Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma (I thought he was the best tight end in the country last year as a sophomore)
Sen'Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn (I'm higher on this guy than most. Right now, he's easily a top ten pick in my book)
Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest (Best OLB since A.J. Hawk in my opinion)
Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois (Still a bit raw, but has more potential than any corner I've seen in a long time)
Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State (Very, very good and very, very consistent throughout his career)

- Matt Stafford is up there. I don't think he's truly "elite" just yet, but he's close. He could be on this list by the end of the season.
- Eugene Monroe and Andre Smith both just missed. If Monroe plays with a little more consistency for the rest of the season he'll make the list. Smith just needs to continue playing like he is.

I completely forgot about Gresham when i did mine, he would be in there as well for me.

eaglesalltheway
10-21-2008, 07:05 AM
That statement could be meant both in that financial perspective and, maybe more so, from a talent standpoint.

The consensus top Running Back prospect Chris "Beanie" Wells is slightly below last year's top RB Darren McFadden at this point.

The top Quarterback, Matthew Stafford, is still not the prospect Matt Ryan was.

Neither Andre Smith, Michael Oher, or Eugene Monroe are as productive or imposing as Jake Long.

Jerod Mayo holds just a bit of an advantage over James Laurinaitis. Keith Rivers, likewise, is a slightly better prospect than Aaron Curry.

Chris Long and Vernon Gholston may both be superior to Greg Hardy, Brian Orakpo, Michael Johnson, and Tyson Jackson as NFL prospects.

Glenn Dorsey is clearly a better prospect than SenDerrick Marks is at this point.

At the top, it seems this draft is more comparable to 2005 than to 2006, 2007, or even 2008. It is stronger than 2005, but as I said the talent at the top isn't what it was the past few years.

The depth of the draft is what helps it, or so it seems. Still the draft is rich with Offensive Tackles, Centers, Middle Linebackers, has a few strong Cornerbacks, and could wind up being the top draft for Tight Ends in a few years. Unfortunately for the Cincinnati Bengals, the real value of this draft will come outside the Top 4 or 5 it seems.

Mid First-Early Third could be the strength of the 2009 draft. This all could change though... It is early

I agree with your evaluations except for OT. There were a lot of people who really didn't like Long, especially as an LT, while this year there are potentially 3 OTs who could go in the top 5. I know you have to compare the rest of the talent in those drafts, but the way I see it anyway, the top of the OT class is at least just as good as last year.

eaglesalltheway
10-21-2008, 07:20 AM
Not to pick on you, but this is getting absurd. I've never seen a four year starter with only one 100 yard game (Temple), six receiving TDs and no multiple receiving TD games get as much hype as Williams. Furthermore, he isn't a deep threat. He has a career 10.8 ypc average. That's pathetic. So what makes this guy so good that I'm missing?

I agree with you on Williams, but one thing I will bring up is he does get a ton of screen passes as well, and you're right though, if he is so highly regarded, he should get those extra yards on screens. The screen passes will bring down the ypc. He does have deep play potential, though I agree he is getting a little too much recognition.

Sniper
10-21-2008, 07:21 AM
I agree with you on Williams, but one thing I will bring up is he does get a ton of screen passes as well, and you're right though, if he is so highly regarded, he should get those extra yards on screens. The screen passes will bring down the ypc. He does have deep play potential, though I agree he is getting a little too much recognition.

Maybe you're right about the screen passes, though I have to think his poor route-running ability has something to do with all those screen passes.

eaglesalltheway
10-21-2008, 07:44 AM
Maybe you're right about the screen passes, though I have to think his poor route-running ability has something to do with all those screen passes.

It is just something I just thought about that would bring it down. He does get a lot of those, but like I said, if he is as good as billed, he should be getting more yards out of them, in YAC yardage.

vatech=accdomination
10-21-2008, 08:14 AM
Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma (I thought he was the best tight end in the country last year as a sophomore)

you are the man, the Best TE prospect I have ever seen/

tjsunstein
10-21-2008, 10:15 AM
My Elites:

Michael Crabtree
James Laurinaitis

Saying someone is elite is saying alot, but these guys are far and away the best at their respective position. It's starting to look like one could make a case for Malcolm Jenkins.

Babylon
10-21-2008, 10:33 AM
you are the man, the Best TE prospect I have ever seen/

May be or may be the 3rd best this year.

STARHEATHER
10-21-2008, 07:49 PM
a sergio kindle sighting!

jnew76
02-28-2009, 02:49 PM
My weekend project was to go through and work on my rankings post-combine and I remembered this thread. I think there is more of a clear cut feeling as to who the elite prospects are in this draft.

I have 4 elites now

1. Jason Smith
2. Aaron Curry
3. Eugene Monroe
4. Matthew Stafford

JRTPlaya21
02-28-2009, 03:15 PM
But you know what I mean. This draft looks very good and could rival the 2004 Draft as far as overall talent goes and how deep the talent is at all the positions.

Like I said, I mentioned the tops of the tops and I didn't even the mention the tier 2 guys that could turn into All-Pros.

Michael Johnson
Josh Freeman
Rico McCoy
Tray Blackmon CFL
Vincent Ohgobaase
Everette Brown
Jeremy Maclin
Percy Harvin
Derrick Williams
Fili Maola
Taylor Mays
Patrick Chung
Brandon Spikes
C.J. Spiller
Knowshon Moreno
LeSean McCoy
Boo Robinson
Alex Boone
Javon Ringer
Travis Beckum
James Davis
Tim Tebow
Chase Coffman
Phil Loadholt
Ciron Black
Clint Sintim
Sean Weatherspoon
Greg Middleton
Tyson Jackson
Herman Johnson
Jamon Meredith
Jason Smith
Maurice Evans
Matt Shaughnessy
Auston English
Peria Jerry
Terrance Taylor
Geno Atkins
Sen'Derrick Marks
B.J. Raji
Ricky Jean-Francois
Trevard Lindley
Darius Butler
Myron Rolle 2010 Draft
Kam Chancellor
Macho Harris

All bold ones are a draft away or not NFL bound.

Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2009, 03:17 PM
All bold ones are a draft away or not NFL bound.

He posted this like last year.

JRTPlaya21
02-28-2009, 03:17 PM
Haha ok thanks JBond.

NJX9isahomoo
03-01-2009, 08:09 PM
Aaron Curry.