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Hawk
10-20-2008, 04:22 PM
Where do you think he ranks among the DE class this year if he comes out?

I think his situation is similar to Woodley's a few years back.

Solomon
10-20-2008, 04:32 PM
I think Graham is a better prospect than Woodley. He has similiar size and like Woodley has the ability to play as a pass rusher in a 3-4. However I think Graham is more agile, faster and is more physically gifted. Conditioning, consistancy and lack of ideal height are probably the biggest knocks on him right now. If he continues to play well and declares early I think he's a late first rounder. He'd be a decent choice for Detroit with their second first rounder.

ironman4579
10-20-2008, 06:16 PM
Well, Graham is listed at 6-2, 270. Basically, he's a bigger, faster Woodley. However, at that size I think he could easily play 4-3 DE, but he has the athleticism to slim down and play OLB in a 3-4. His conditioning is vastly improved this year. However, unlike Woodley, he doesn't go all out on every play, takes plays off, and can disappear for long stretches. If he ever learns to play every down, ala Woodley, he'll be an animal. That said, I think he would benefit from coming back for his senior year.

P-L
10-20-2008, 06:37 PM
Graham is a 1st Round talent but he has a 3rd Round motor. If he came out this year I would think he'd go around the same spot Woodley did, the mid-2nd Round. I think he could play either defensive end in a 4-3 or linebacker in a 3-4. He came into Michigan as a middle linebacker but he got too big for the position and was moved to defensive tackle when he got over 270. However during his freshman season he got back down to 270 and they moved him over to end.

Don Vito
10-20-2008, 07:13 PM
I like Graham a lot, he is a big-time talent and I think he could play LB in a 3-4 or end in a 4-3. He is the total package athletically and I've been impressed every time I've seen him play.

His freshman year sounds a lot like Chris Strong's freshman year for Ole Miss last season. Came here as a LB than put on some weight and got moved around between DT and DE. Unfortunately he is out of school and supposedly will be playing at Alabama next year.

princefielder28
10-20-2008, 08:05 PM
It would be wise for Graham to stay next year and develop his stock to greater heights. I agree with P-L that, at this point in time, he's a 2nd round value, but with a solid finish to this year and an impressive senior campaign then the 1st round tag may be applied.

Xiomera
10-20-2008, 08:11 PM
I want him on the Lions.

Our early 2nd round pick sounds about right . . .

CashmoneyDrew
10-20-2008, 10:01 PM
Damn, that is one sexy avatar Hawk.

Hawk
10-20-2008, 10:15 PM
Damn, that is one sexy avatar Hawk.

Thanks

I don't know if it gets any better than that.

eaglesalltheway
10-21-2008, 06:35 AM
Well, Graham is listed at 6-2, 270. Basically, he's a bigger, faster Woodley. However, at that size I think he could easily play 4-3 DE, but he has the athleticism to slim down and play OLB in a 3-4. His conditioning is vastly improved this year. However, unlike Woodley, he doesn't go all out on every play, takes plays off, and can disappear for long stretches. If he ever learns to play every down, ala Woodley, he'll be an animal. That said, I think he would benefit from coming back for his senior year.

Agreed, I've been keeping an eye on him for the past year or so, and payed more attention to him this weekend. He didn't make much of an impact this week vs PSU, but he is a very good prospect, who like you said, needs to play at a high level more consistently.

Sniper
10-24-2008, 07:49 PM
Agreed, I've been keeping an eye on him for the past year or so, and payed more attention to him this weekend. He didn't make much of an impact this week vs PSU, but he is a very good prospect, who like you said, needs to play at a high level more consistently.

I was looking for a Graham thread and stumbled upon this. Yay search function!

Re: Graham vs. PSU. His numbers aren't going to be as high as others (though he does have 5 sacks and 10.5 TFL), but that's because a big part of opposing teams' gameplans have been to take away Michigan's DL, which is the strength of the DL. Teams are using a lot of three step drops, swing passes, screens etc... to slow down Graham, Terrance Taylor et al. Instead, they attack the cluster **** at linebacker and in the secondary (sans Donovan Warren when he's healthy)

Michigan
10-24-2008, 10:00 PM
Graham disappears for too many stretches to be considered a high round pick at the moment, but he certainly has the talent to become one (as many have said already). I really, really think he could benefit from staying for his senior season though. He can work with our excellent S&C coach for another year to work on his conditioning, and next year our offense shouldn't be as hideous so Graham will have more chances to rest and show his potential.

Xiomera
10-25-2008, 03:24 PM
Graham has looked good to start this game against MSU.

Had a sack on the second play.

P-L
10-25-2008, 03:37 PM
Graham is really backing up his talk earlier in the week. Only 1 sack but a knockdown and a couple pressures so far.

Xiomera
10-25-2008, 03:59 PM
Graham is fast! He was running as fast as Ringer when he raced towards the endzone.

Xiomera
10-25-2008, 04:34 PM
Another sack for Graham. He's elevating his draft stock today.

Xiomera
10-25-2008, 05:14 PM
Graham with his third sack of the day. Looks dominant.

P-L
10-25-2008, 05:16 PM
If you want to see what this kid can do, turn on the Michigan/Michigan State game. Graham is absolutely putting on a clinic. So far he's got 3.5 sacks (might only get credited with 3) and he was thrown the ground on a play in which he likely would've picked up another. He's playing like a man possessed.

Xiomera
10-25-2008, 05:20 PM
I hope the Lions can get this guy somehow.

Mr. Stiller
10-25-2008, 05:26 PM
Could you imagine Woodley and Graham across from each other?

I love Harrison but the guy is 30 and isn't the most athletically gifted.

keylime_5
10-25-2008, 05:28 PM
graham really looks like a bigger woodley. well, a more "compact" or stockier woodley who looks more like a DT than lamarr did. every michigan game I watch this year he really stands out.

CroomDawgs
10-25-2008, 08:48 PM
How many sacks does he have on the year now?

P-L
10-25-2008, 08:56 PM
How many sacks does he have on the year now?
8 or 8.5, not sure if he was credited with a half sack on one of the plays today.

CroomDawgs
10-25-2008, 09:10 PM
8 or 8.5, not sure if he was credited with a half sack on one of the plays today.

Dayum, thats still a sack a game. He's playin Purdue and NW coming too right? two pass happy teams, could post some more big sack games.

ironman4579
10-27-2008, 06:01 PM
I was looking for a Graham thread and stumbled upon this. Yay search function!

Re: Graham vs. PSU. His numbers aren't going to be as high as others (though he does have 5 sacks and 10.5 TFL), but that's because a big part of opposing teams' gameplans have been to take away Michigan's DL, which is the strength of the DL. Teams are using a lot of three step drops, swing passes, screens etc... to slow down Graham, Terrance Taylor et al. Instead, they attack the cluster **** at linebacker and in the secondary (sans Donovan Warren when he's healthy)

While I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point Sniper, you've got to admit that his conditioning/every down effort could use some improvement.

P-L
10-27-2008, 06:07 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that if Graham played like he did against Penn State every game, he'd be the top defensive end in the draft. However, he only plays that well three or four times per season.

ironman4579
10-27-2008, 06:07 PM
Well, since I did the "Shawn Crable update" last season in the Crable thread, I guess I might as well do a weekly Brandon Graham update in this one as well.

Graham vs Michigan State

4 tackles, 3 sacks, 3 TFL's


Season Stats

7 Games, 32 tackles, 13.5 TFL's, 8 sacks, 2 Forced Fumbles


On Pace For

11 games, 48 tackles, 20 TFL's, 12 sacks, 3 Forced Fumbles

asmitty45
10-27-2008, 07:16 PM
brandon graham...can't back up a guarantee.

But he is a very good defensive end, can't knock him there. I think he's somewhere in 2-3, but with good workouts and the right scheme he could sneak into the first round

P-L
10-27-2008, 07:22 PM
brandon graham...can't back up a guarantee.

But he is a very good defensive end, can't knock him there. I think he's somewhere in 2-3, but with good workouts and the right scheme he could sneak into the first round
Actually, Graham did back up his talk. Just ask Brian Hoyer how well he played. The only problem with his guarantee was that the offense and safeties didn't give him any help.

Sniper
10-27-2008, 10:45 PM
brandon graham...can't back up a guarantee.

But he is a very good defensive end, can't knock him there. I think he's somewhere in 2-3, but with good workouts and the right scheme he could sneak into the first round

Yes, because it's Graham's fault that the safeties and linebackers can't tackle. It's Graham's fault Threet threw 3 picks.

MSU wins one game against a horrible UM team and now they own the world, apparently. Never mind that 39 game lead UM has in the series.

eaglesalltheway
10-28-2008, 06:38 AM
brandon graham...can't back up a guarantee.

But he is a very good defensive end, can't knock him there. I think he's somewhere in 2-3, but with good workouts and the right scheme he could sneak into the first round

Not to hijack the thread but it really can be answered in only one post.

smitty, what is up with DE Colin Neeley? He is a local kid and i just wanted to know how he is doing and some of the expectations for him, and anything else you could think of.

ironman4579
11-03-2008, 08:15 PM
Graham vs Purdue

3 tackles, 1 TFL


Brandon Graham Season

8 games, 35 tackles, 14.5 TFL's, 8 sacks, 2 Forced Fumbles


On Pace For

11 games, 47 tackles, 19 TFL's, 11 sacks, 3 Forced Fumbles

lionsfan81
11-03-2008, 10:46 PM
Not to hijack the thread but it really can be answered in only one post.

smitty, what is up with DE Colin Neeley? He is a local kid and i just wanted to know how he is doing and some of the expectations for him, and anything else you could think of.

hes doing well, first year being healthy. He is the back up DE getting some decent PT. Next year I expect him to be a starter, as long as he can maintain being healthy which has been a problem.

ironman4579
11-16-2008, 04:11 PM
I've been pretty busy with work and haven't done any of my updates so here's a quick one.

Graham vs Northwestern

4 tackles, 2.5 TFL's


Brandon Graham Season

10 games, 43 tackles, 18 TFL's, 9 sacks, 2 FF's


On Pace For

11 games, 47 tackles, 20 TFL's, 10 sacks, 2 FF's

Sniper
11-25-2008, 10:26 AM
Brandon Graham/DE/Michigan: Graham has been one of the few rays of light in what has been a miserable season in Ann Arbor. He led the Wolverines in sacks (10) and tackles for loss (20) this year while adding a solid 46 tackles. The junior is slightly undersized yet his ability to disrupt the backfield intrigues NFL scouts.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/11/24/risers.sliders/index.html

I don't think he's leaving, but still...

ironman4579
11-28-2008, 11:39 AM
Graham vs Ohio State

3 tackles, 2 TFL's, 1 sack


Brandon Graham Final Season Statistics

11 games, 46 tackles, 20 TFL's, 10 sacks, 2 Forced Fumbles


Graham's season was the 3rd best in Michigan history for sacks(he also holds the 4th best mark as well), and 3rd best for TFL's. He is also currently 4th all time at Michigan in Forced fumbles with 6. LaMarr Woodley set the mark with 10. Graham also sits 3rd all time in Sacks with 19. James Hall holds the current mark with 26.5. He is 7th all time in TFL's with 29.5. LaMarr Woodley also holds that mark with 47 TFL's in his career.

AkiliSmith
11-28-2008, 11:43 AM
Graham vs Ohio State

3 tackles, 2 TFL's, 1 sack


Brandon Graham Final Season Statistics

11 games, 46 tackles, 20 TFL's, 10 sacks, 2 Forced Fumbles

Unless he believes Michigan is going to make a miraculous turn around next season I don't see any reason why he should stay. NFL teams are always looking for pass rushers.

ironman4579
11-28-2008, 11:53 AM
Really, he'd be far better off coming back. First off, this could be a great year for DE's if some of the juniors declare. Even if he got a first round grade, depending on what teams are looking for he could easily drop. The bigger reason to come back is that probably the biggest knock on Graham is conditioning. It was leaps and bounds better this year than his Sophmore season, but it could still definately improve. One more year with Michigan new S&C coach would make Graham even more of a ridiculous beast. I'd almost hate to see Graham and Woodley on the same field. The universe might explode.

DeathbyStat
11-28-2008, 12:12 PM
Like woodley i think he will be a solid second round pick

Xiomera
11-28-2008, 04:33 PM
Like woodley i think he will be a solid second round pick

I think Graham might stay at U-M.

He can potentially boost himself into a solid first rounder with another year.

But if he leaves, #33 overall might be a good landing spot for him, assuming we don't grab a DE earlier.

P-L
11-30-2008, 03:02 PM
Coach Rod already announced that Brandon is going to be back next year.

Race for the Heisman
11-30-2008, 05:19 PM
Coach Rod already announced that Brandon is going to be back next year.

Source? I think he'd probably be a second rounder anyway. He doesn't have much hype now and this is a great defensive end class. Next year he'd probably be very thoroughly dissected on film and too much will be made of his measurables. There's some good defensive ends next year, too (Wootton being my personal favorite).

Sniper
11-30-2008, 08:48 PM
Source? I think he'd probably be a second rounder anyway. He doesn't have much hype now and this is a great defensive end class. Next year he'd probably be very thoroughly dissected on film and too much will be made of his measurables. There's some good defensive ends next year, too (Wootton being my personal favorite).

If P-L says it, that's a good enough source.

P-L
11-30-2008, 08:57 PM
He said it at his last press conference. I don't have a link to the transcript.

Texas Homer
12-01-2008, 12:52 AM
LB in a 3-4. He is a good player.

ironman4579
12-02-2008, 11:54 AM
Source? I think he'd probably be a second rounder anyway. He doesn't have much hype now and this is a great defensive end class. Next year he'd probably be very thoroughly dissected on film and too much will be made of his measurables. There's some good defensive ends next year, too (Wootton being my personal favorite).

The only measurable that might be a problem would be his height, at 6'2". At 270 he could easily play 4-3 DE, but he's athletic enough to slim down and be a 3-4 OLB in the Woodley model.

Bob Sacamano
12-02-2008, 04:35 PM
he's 6'2"? yikes, and that may be stretching it since colleges usually give their guys an inch or 2, and 10-25 pounds more than they actually are

he needs to have some extraordinarily long arms or he has to move to MLB in a 4-3, or ILB in a 3-4

Sniper
12-02-2008, 07:32 PM
he's 6'2"? yikes, and that may be stretching it since colleges usually give their guys an inch or 2, and 10-25 pounds more than they actually are

he needs to have some extraordinarily long arms or he has to move to MLB in a 4-3, or ILB in a 3-4

He's bigger than Woodley.

ironman4579
12-02-2008, 08:15 PM
He's bigger than Woodley.

And James Harrison. Those guys seem to be working out pretty well for the Steelers.

And about probably being lighter and shorter. Michigan's traditionally been quite accurate with their measurements. They definately aren't adding 15-20 pounds.

Race for the Heisman
12-03-2008, 09:49 AM
I know those guys have had success but I think part of that is very much a coaching factor and while it is as you say and he has pretty good size in terms of weight, what I said about measurables was mostly about his height and you can see how scouts and draftniks (Sacamano) might react to that.

ironman4579
12-03-2008, 11:50 AM
I know those guys have had success but I think part of that is very much a coaching factor and while it is as you say and he has pretty good size in terms of weight, what I said about measurables was mostly about his height and you can see how scouts and draftniks (Sacamano) might react to that.

True, but Scouts react to height mainly because of arm length IMO. As long as a guy has long enough arms to get seperation, his height could actually be a bonus (pretty much starts out with a low pad level, under the block/pad level of the OT). Just my opinion though.

ironman4579
12-03-2008, 12:13 PM
And let's be honest. There's a ton of starting 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's in the NFL that are listed as 6'3". If Graham is actually like 6'2 1/2" is that all that much difference? I could also name off some starting 4-3 ends and 3-4 OLB's that are 6'2" or shorter:

LaMarr Woodley
James Harrison
Dwight Freeney
Robert Mathis
Adalius Thomas
Elvis Dumervil
Turk McBride
Derrick Burgess

That's just the AFC. Those are all pretty good players and pass rushers other than maybe McBride.