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Scott Wright
10-22-2008, 08:27 AM
Hey,

It took a little longer than expected but I just made the mock draft update live.

You can reach it via the main page: http://www.draftcountdown.com/

Constructive criticism is always welcomed but please include the reasoning behind your opinions.

Note: Please, please, please do not pay too much attention to the draft order. I started with a set of power rankings but then moved some teams up or down to make the players fit better. For example, New England probably isn't going to end up with a Top 15 pick and Minnesota will probably be picking higher than the twenties. Any posts criticizing the order will almost surely draw an infraction so let's focus on the players and teams, not the order.

Smokey Joe
10-22-2008, 08:31 AM
Are you gonna update the draft order at all? I like the Crabtree pick, but hopefully the Bears will be picking in the early 20's instead of the early teens.

Scott Wright
10-22-2008, 08:37 AM
Are you gonna update the draft order at all? I like the Crabtree pick, but hopefully the Bears will be picking in the early 20's instead of the early teens.

Seriously???

"Note: Please, please, please do not pay too much attention to the draft order. I started with a set of power rankings but then moved some teams up or down to make the players fit better. For example, New England probably isn't going to end up with a Top 15 pick and Minnesota will probably be picking higher than the twenties. Any posts criticizing the order will almost surely draw an infraction so let's focus on the players and teams, not the order."

rockio42
10-22-2008, 08:43 AM
Scott, I love ya man, but three TEs in the first round and no Chase Coffman, This guy has been off the charts this year and has had some HUGE games against good teams and primtime games, his catch on the sideline with one hand against Ok St. was just plain disgusting, so if you could explain that I would be quiet happy. On a side note great Rams pick and also ballsy move with James Lauarinaitis in the top 5 considering how much **** he takes on these boards

Matthew Jones
10-22-2008, 08:44 AM
Scott,

Usually you do an outstanding job with your mocks but it seems as though you've completely ignored the great struggles of players like Eugene Monroe, Michael Johnson, Vontae Davis, and Greg Hardy. I know at least two or three will be first rounders, but their draft stock hasn't changed at all this year for you when they've all been playing poorly. Interesting mock draft (and outstanding Patriots pick) but not one of your best, in my opinion.

jnew76
10-22-2008, 08:50 AM
1. You still have Michael Johnson as a top 10 pick in spite of having a real lack of production this year. Why is that?

2. Do you really think that Brian Orakpo will last until the early 20's?

Scott Wright
10-22-2008, 08:52 AM
Scott, I love ya man, but three TEs in the first round and no Chase Coffman

I really like Chase Coffman but he isn't first round material. He's a better blocker than Martin Rucker was (which isn't saying much) but he is still pretty one-dimensional and doesn't have the type of speed to overcome it on Draft Day. Coffman is a solid 2nd rounder though.

Scott,

It seems as though you've completely ignored the great struggles of players like Eugene Monroe, Michael Johnson, Vontae Davis, and Greg Hardy.

With the exception of Michael Johnson I think you are overrating the struggles of these guys. I have detailed on more than one occasion how I feel Johnson is vastly overrated but in my mocks I am trying to project where the players will go, not where I would take them. For some reason scouts still seem to love Johnson even though he is invisible on the field most of the time.

As for Monroe, Hardy and Davis, I don't think they have been nearly as bad as you made it sound and in Hardy's case he's been outstanding when he's been on the field, it's just the injury that is holding him back. Monroe has had one or two so-so performances but he is still one of the top senior prospects in the country. As for Davis, all corners have moments where they look bad and those stand out in people's minds but he is still right up there with Malcolm Jenkins.

DiG
10-22-2008, 08:58 AM
nice scott although i dont like the skins pick.

stopping the run has not been the skins problem and i dont think that jackson is a good fit for our defense. he wont get the pressure on the quarterback that we need. griffin is still playing well but he isnt getting the same pressure in penetration that he used to and monte and gholston are geared more towards stopping the run which they are doing very well. I understand your rationale that he could help take snaps from Taylor but if we draft a DE in the first round it has to replace Taylor. If we went DLine I think that a penetrating DT or a pass rushing DE would be a much better fit than Jackson who really gives me no excitement.

What are your thoughts on Alex Mack for the Skins? Rabach has been the Redskins biggest liability this year at center and at 32 he isn't going to be getting much better.

keylime_5
10-22-2008, 08:58 AM
nice mockage. i don't think cleveland is looking for a starting CB so much as depth with Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald entrenched as their two very solid young starters and I don't think they'd draft one in the first round over a linebacker (ILB or OLB) unless they do it as BPA...and I guess Davis or Jenkins would be BPA in a lot of cases, so I could see them taking Malcolm. But I don't like how you make it sound like Wright is our only decent guy, McDonald is pretty good too.

georgiafan
10-22-2008, 09:12 AM
Even though DT, CB and S are probley bigger need for the falcons then the TE or atleast more important positions. You can never have to many weapons for a young QB so if he proves to be worth a mid 1st pick that's fine with me. I think the jets is a perfect place for Knowshon. It's also bittersweet to see Stafford still going #1.

RedLionAle
10-22-2008, 09:26 AM
I honestly think I'd blow my own head off it the Texans took Johnson over Hardy/Orakpo at #7. Really, really, really don't think Johnson has any business being taken before either one, really.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-22-2008, 09:45 AM
IMO there isn't a single safety in the first round of the draft who would play better than Chris Horton in our system. Landry allows our other safety to roam around and make plays and honestly not a single safety in this draft including William Moore and Taylor Mays could make plays like Horton. He plays like a linebacker with the range of a safety. IMO if there was a re-draft Horton would be the top safety taken. I really don't see him as a one year wonder, I see him as a guy who has found a system which hides his weaknesses and lets him utilize his strengths, and his strengths are just that, strengths. There wasn't a better run stopper at the safety position in last years draft than Horton. Horton just has the LB instincts. Moore obviously projects as a much better lead safety than Horton, but with what Horton is asked to do, no other could do better. Landry really is amazing with his ability to cover the entire field.

DiG
10-22-2008, 09:53 AM
IMO there isn't a single safety in the first round of the draft who would play better than Chris Horton in our system. Landry allows our other safety to roam around and make plays and honestly not a single safety in this draft including William Moore and Taylor Mays could make plays like Horton. He plays like a linebacker with the range of a safety. IMO if there was a re-draft Horton would be the top safety taken. I really don't see him as a one year wonder, I see him as a guy who has found a system which hides his weaknesses and lets him utilize his strengths, and his strengths are just that, strengths. There wasn't a better run stopper at the safety position in last years draft than Horton. Horton just has the LB instincts. Moore obviously projects as a much better lead safety than Horton, but with what Horton is asked to do, no other could do better. Landry really is amazing with his ability to cover the entire field.

x2. i think oline, cb, de, dt, and lber are all bigger needs than safety at this point.

CJSchneider
10-22-2008, 09:59 AM
I agree with both the 49ers' and Saints' pick.
Only one QB in the 1st round is interesting, but I'm glad you didn't throw Tebow's name in just because it has been the "thing to do".

iBoldin
10-22-2008, 10:10 AM
Damn, I wouldn't have a single complaint at all at selecting Orakpo. He's perfect. Great pick, and an overall great mock.

d34ng3l021
10-22-2008, 10:13 AM
James Laurinaitis at 2? It might be a good pick in terms of position for the Chiefs because their front 7 is playing awfully, but no way does he go number 2. I am going to have to agree that he is nothing more than a pile jumper worthy of a 2nd round pick.

Andre Smith to the Raiders seems kind of iffy. It seems as if their ZBS is in for good, at least for a while. Unless they change out of it, I dont know if they would like Smith at LT. People think he may have trouble at LT, but in a scheme that allows for even more quickness?

Love the Gresham/TE pick for the Falcons. A pass catching TE would really complete our offense. I think a defensive stud along the lines of a safety or tackle might make sense too, but at that point, I couldn't think of any.

thebow305
10-22-2008, 10:35 AM
Scott,

Usually you do an outstanding job with your mocks but it seems as though you've completely ignored the great struggles of players like Eugene Monroe, Michael Johnson, Vontae Davis, and Greg Hardy. I know at least two or three will be first rounders, but their draft stock hasn't changed at all this year for you when they've all been playing poorly. Interesting mock draft (and outstanding Patriots pick) but not one of your best, in my opinion.

Is that comment regarding Greg Hardy a joke? I sure hope so. He has been almost unblockable the whole year for Ole Miss. He is challenging Orakpo as the most dominant defensive lineman in college football and most certainly Tops the SEC Lineman. He harrassed Tim Tebow all game and in his last game he was hobbling around on one leg and still getting to the QB. He is all as advertized and Scott has him way to low in my opinion.

BTW, I LOVE Maualuga, but I was hoping to see someone different this time around. :( I would have taken Vontae Davis or Greg Hardy there as well.

And Laurinaitis at #2? If anyone should be there it's Maualuga. Laurinaitis is VASTLY overrated and will be lucky to go in round one at all IMO.

ElectricEye
10-22-2008, 10:40 AM
Greg Hardy is having a fantastic year. I would hardly call what he's doing struggling. He's not doing the best job staying on the field, but when he is everyone knows it. Really great looking prospect, and he and Orakpo should leapfrog Johnson eventually.

I really like the William Moore pick. Sounds just what we need.

Babylon
10-22-2008, 11:03 AM
I think it's interesting that there is only one QB in round 1. Thats seems like agents are going to have a field day with that and incourage players to jump at that opening. My guess is you'll see at least 2 of Tebow, McCoy, Bradford and Sanchez enter.

I'm not totally convinced that Chase Coffman isnt a late first round pick or early second at worst.

Bruce Banner
10-22-2008, 11:10 AM
Scott. For future clarification.....are your mock drafts what you think should happen or what you think will happen?

Yatta!
10-22-2008, 11:16 AM
Scott. For future clarification.....are your mock drafts what you think should happen or what you think will happen?

I'm pretty sure its always what he thinks will happen. Thus him saying that he thinks Michael Johnson is vastly overrated and yet still putting him in the top 10 etc.

Hardy to the Packers is an amazing pick as well Scott, great job.

Scott Wright
10-22-2008, 11:17 AM
Scott. For future clarification.....are your mock drafts what you think should happen or what you think will happen?

As always they are what I think teams WILL do.

Bruce Banner
10-22-2008, 11:23 AM
As always they are what I think teams WILL do.

Let's say Orakpo and DHB fall into the Bucs' laps....who do they take?

I want to say DHB because of the massive hole at receiver but there will be a massive hole at LE this coming offseason.

DeathbyStat
10-22-2008, 11:34 AM
I don't think James Laurinnaitis is worth the number 2 overall pick...and the cheifs have bigger needs like oline and QB

Matthew Jones
10-22-2008, 11:36 AM
As for Monroe, Hardy and Davis, I don't think they have been nearly as bad as you made it sound and in Hardy's case he's been outstanding when he's been on the field, it's just the injury that is holding him back. Monroe has had one or two so-so performances but he is still one of the top senior prospects in the country. As for Davis, all corners have moments where they look bad and those stand out in people's minds but he is still right up there with Malcolm Jenkins.

I've been subjected to a lot of Virginia Cavaliers football this year because I live in D.C., and so far Monroe has yet to really impress me. He has some good games - when he feels like it. He just looks lazy and sluggish right now. At this point I would say Oher and Smith look more polished and Monroe was supposed to be the "safe" polished pick. His value is in the 10-12 range in my opinion - I'd probably say Branden Albert was a better prospect. Davis just seems to get beat fairly consistently this year, but I'd agree that he's a first-round talent, although I'm thinking more in the 18-24 range. As for Hardy, he's also had a lot of struggles connecting with the coaching staff - he seems like somewhat of a character risk. 20-ish range for me, but I wouldn't be surprised if he fell out of the first a la Calais Campbell.

Scott Wright
10-22-2008, 11:37 AM
I don't think James Laurinnaitis is worth the number 2 overall pick...and the cheifs have bigger needs like oline and QB

I don't think Michael Johnson is worth a Top 10 pick either but it's really not about what we think, it's about what the NFL thinks. Based on what I've read on this board it looks like pro scouts have a MUCH higher opinion of Laurinaitis than draftniks do.

Young Legend
10-22-2008, 11:52 AM
Andre Smith interesting, Any reason why him over Oher and Monroe not saying it's a bad pick by any means but just wondering what's the reason.

Turtlepower
10-22-2008, 11:58 AM
I noticed that Stafford was the only QB taken in your mock. Has there ever been a draft where only 1 QB is taken in the 1st round?

And on that subject, what is the likelihood of the Titans drafting a QB on the 1st day?

Strawdog
10-22-2008, 12:02 PM
I noticed that Stafford was the only QB taken in your mock. Has there ever been a draft where only 1 QB is taken in the 1st round?

2001 NFL Draft. Vick was the first pick and no other QBs were taken in the first. Granted, Brees was taken with the first pick of the second round.

Turtlepower
10-22-2008, 12:06 PM
2001 NFL Draft. Vick was the first pick and no other QBs were taken in the first. Granted, Brees was taken with the first pick of the second round.

And that 2nd round would be a part of the 1st round today.

keylime_5
10-22-2008, 12:07 PM
Based on what I've read on this board it looks like pro scouts have a MUCH higher opinion of Laurinaitis than draftniks do.

you can say that again. Go watch last week's OSU/MSU game, people.

T-RICH49
10-22-2008, 12:32 PM
I'd personally rather go with Crabtree or Maclin for KC if Bradford or Stafford is not there.We need a playmaker on O opposite Bowe

P-L
10-22-2008, 12:39 PM
I know you said this is what you think will happen, I just have a real hard time seeing Laurinaitis and Maualuga as top ten picks after watching their play this year.

KCStud
10-22-2008, 01:16 PM
I would love to have Laurinitis, but at this point getting him wouldn't accomplish much considering KC's starting defensive line has not generated a sack this year.

Laurinitis would be option C IMO. Option B for the Chiefs has to be Oher. KC can't protect it's QB's hardly at all, especially on the right side. I would love it if KC took Oher and switched Albert to the right side to play his true position at G and have the solid and young OT Herb Taylor play RT.

Then in round 2, KC needs to get their QB. I recommend Colt McCoy who I think is coming out.

All in all, KC still has quite a few areas to address. If a QB is not there, then address the lines.

Bengals78
10-22-2008, 01:36 PM
I just dont see the Bengals passing up Maualuga, Oher or Monroe. We have greater needs than RB and the value for the other 3 is higher than that of Wells at 4

Bruce Banner
10-22-2008, 02:26 PM
Mythbusta might be right about Rey Rey!

(Blasphemy!)

Babylon
10-22-2008, 02:34 PM
Mythbusta might be right about Rey Rey!

(Blasphemy!)

Dont go soft on us now. Actually a lot of people have questioned Rey's play as of late. I think he goes fairly high but you could probably trade down a bit and still get him. To Me JL and Curry would go before him so that should make him available in the later part of round 1.

Bruce Banner
10-22-2008, 02:41 PM
Dont go soft on us now. Actually a lot of people have questioned Rey's play as of late. I think he goes fairly high but you could probably trade down a bit and still get him. To Me JL and Curry would go before him so that should make him available in the later part of round 1.

Agriz-e'd.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 02:41 PM
this isnt very good. james laurinitis second overall. i guess hes the greatest lb prospect ever? rey maluga 6th?are they really better prospects than patrick willis 11th overall? i guess theres a reason the same teams pick at the top of the draft every year. i expect my team to be selecting near the bottom and i see us picking up another high quality player. i see a high amount of talent trickling down to the 2nd 3rd rd because teams would actually use the 2nd overall on laurinitis. i guess someone did on chris long, so we can only hope

CashmoneyDrew
10-22-2008, 02:43 PM
this isnt very good. james laurinitis second overall. i guess hes the greatest lb prospect ever? rey maluga 6th?are they really better prospects than patrick willis 11th overall? i guess theres a reason the same teams pick at the top of the draft every year. i expect my team to be selecting near the bottom and i see us picking up another high quality player. i see a high amount of talent trickling down to the 2nd 3rd rd because teams would actually use the 2nd overall on laurinitis. i guess someone did on chris long, so we can only hope

Who is your team?

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 03:00 PM
i will never disclose it unless they win the sb

Bruce Banner
10-22-2008, 03:02 PM
i will never disclose it unless they win the sb

You are insane.

naruto613
10-22-2008, 03:02 PM
A few criticisms:

I don't believe that Laurinitis(sp) is worth a #2 pick. He's very, very good, but AJ Hawk was a better prospect, and he was selected at 4. I think if you pick Laurinitis at 2 you're going to overpay him.

Michael Oher falling past the Oakland Raiders was a surprise. Oher is far and away the best LT in the draft, and is going to shock the NFL world at the combine. McFadden and Russell need a stud LT to shore up that line, or their stats aren't going to be as mind-boggling as they were in college (as Al Davis expects).

I like the Michael Johnson pick solely based on the fact that he reminds me so much of Mario Williams. I think Johnson and Williams could eventually become one of the best DE combos in the league, in regards to their size, speed and strength. Not only does he bring in a freakish skill set, but he'll provide the Texans with alot to work with.

I have some doubts about the Brian Cushing pick. Not the pick itself, but Cushing as a player. I'm a Giants fan, and I know we need a linebacker...badly. But Cushing doesn't wow me enough to select him. He seems exactly like a Brian Kehl, just at a more high-profile school. I would like for the G-Men to trade up and get Curry or Orakpo. But, I think we won't budge, and consider Coffman as a legit pick towards the bottom of round one.


Thanks for the Mocks Scott, always look forward to it!

keylime_5
10-22-2008, 03:08 PM
from what I've heard said about Jason Smith it wouldn't surprise me to see him jump in the top ten and go ahead of at least one of Monroe, Oher, and Andre Smith.

Mykdaneck
10-22-2008, 03:10 PM
If the Lions do get the #1 pick and it looks more and more likely, they need to go with an offensive lineman. Look what happened last time they drafted a qb high in the 1st round and then gave him no protection. You have to start in the trenches and give the offense a chance for their plays to develop. This is crucial for the entire offense. This is why I believe they go with Oher. The kid is a beast with super quick feet that can change the entire offense for Detroit.

Go_Eagles77
10-22-2008, 03:11 PM
Pretty nice eagles picks, if we can't get a S that may be the next 2 positions I'd want them to get.

iloxygenil
10-22-2008, 03:12 PM
Scott, I'm curious of the Falcons pick

I don't know much about the guy other than what you just posted I love the guy's size and 4.7 is respectable and it's obvious the Falcons do have a need at the TE position, but that high in the first round, is this kid really that good?

Good enough for the Falcons to pass up the likes of Alphonzo Smith, BRIAN ORAKPO, and Taylor Mays? All players at 3 positions the Falcons could really use. I know the Falcons have Anderson and he may come along more quickly now, but Abe can't play forever, and Orakpo to this point is looking like he'll be a fantastic DE in the NFL.

Basically just really would like some more info on that guy. I'm not against a TE, a first round TE better be something very special though.

eaglesalltheway
10-22-2008, 03:22 PM
I like Smith for the Eagles, but personally, I am not a fan of Beckum as much as some other TEs. that said, that is just my preference, the Eagles organization could possibly feel different. I understand the pick, just personally not my first choice.

DreadedDatSkinsFan
10-22-2008, 03:34 PM
I love where u have the Skins picking...I know u said dont pay it any attention...But I still gotta say a love it...In fact move us down one slot!!!!!

Anyway....Lets say we end up w/ pick 32...pick 27 rolls around and Duke Robinson is still available....I gotta believe that we will try to trade and to that pick and take him...I know we dont have a 2nd rounder....But we DO have trade bait on the roster....

DreadedDatSkinsFan
10-22-2008, 03:45 PM
IMO there isn't a single safety in the first round of the draft who would play better than Chris Horton in our system. Landry allows our other safety to roam around and make plays and honestly not a single safety in this draft including William Moore and Taylor Mays could make plays like Horton. He plays like a linebacker with the range of a safety. IMO if there was a re-draft Horton would be the top safety taken. I really don't see him as a one year wonder, I see him as a guy who has found a system which hides his weaknesses and lets him utilize his strengths, and his strengths are just that, strengths. There wasn't a better run stopper at the safety position in last years draft than Horton. Horton just has the LB instincts. Moore obviously projects as a much better lead safety than Horton, but with what Horton is asked to do, no other could do better. Landry really is amazing with his ability to cover the entire field.

Tru indeed....I dont even think we sniff a safety in the draft...Landry's range and Chris Horton's heart and ability to LISTEN and LEARN...He has the desire to get better and better...He was easily the biggest steal of the draft....I was listening to Sportstalk 980....he said he does what I dont believe none of our rookies do....he asks questions....He said...and I quote "I go to LFB and asks him questions about anything on the field...he's been there so he knows what he's talkin about".....Imagine if Devin Thomas did the same thing...lol....

Anyway....like I said....I dont see us taking a safety....Not w/ a single pick in the draft...

DreadedDatSkinsFan
10-22-2008, 03:51 PM
Aye Scott,

U think Tebow is staying, or do you not think he is 1st round material??

Geo
10-22-2008, 04:20 PM
Peria Jerry to the Colts is the obvious pick. However not necessarily the right one imo.

Babylon
10-22-2008, 04:20 PM
If the Lions do get the #1 pick and it looks more and more likely, they need to go with an offensive lineman. Look what happened last time they drafted a qb high in the 1st round and then gave him no protection. You have to start in the trenches and give the offense a chance for their plays to develop. This is crucial for the entire offense. This is why I believe they go with Oher. The kid is a beast with super quick feet that can change the entire offense for Detroit.

They do have Backus and Cherilus there so i'm not sure that is the most pressing need, as a Lions fan you may know better than me. I do hope you're right about them not taking a QB because i dont want to see someone as talented as Stafford or Bradford ending up in that organization.

TitanHope
10-22-2008, 04:49 PM
Well, I can't say I agree with where the Titans are picking. I think they'll be much better than that... *cough*

Anyway, I think Percy Harvin will have a lapse when he enters the NFL. He already plays in an offense that doesn't translate to the NFL, and many times is placed at RB beside Tebow. He'll be as unpolished as an antique, and along with his injury problems, that seems like a recipe for failure. He's dynamic and there's no denying that. And with Maclin, Crabtree, and DHB going before Harvin, he may be BPA according to position. He'll be a great YAC guy at the least, and the potential is there. Maybe he can contribute in the return game.

Other options are Derrick Williams and Brandon Tate. The Titans WR's have been undeniably exposed in the speed department now that Collins is the QB. Guys that can stretch the field and help in the return game would be the missing piece and help clear out the box for CJ to bust out long runs more easily.

BrabbitMcRabbit
10-22-2008, 05:01 PM
It seems Scott is going to be stubborn about Michael Crabtree this year.

BeerBaron
10-22-2008, 05:06 PM
Good Bears pick for the spot imo. Duke Robinson is still my idea Bears pick for now, but they would have to be picking later than that.

I also don't think that DE should be ruled out either. Its really been lacking for the Bears this year and only looks to get worse as Wale and Brown get older...

DreadedDatSkinsFan
10-22-2008, 05:07 PM
The Bears better not steal my Ducke Robinson dream!!!!

Mykdaneck
10-22-2008, 05:20 PM
They do have Backus and Cherilus there so i'm not sure that is the most pressing need, as a Lions fan you may know better than me. I do hope you're right about them not taking a QB because i dont want to see someone as talented as Stafford or Bradford ending up in that organization.
Backus is overated and Cherilus isn't playing in favor of George Foster thanks to our inept coaching. Cherilus is good and needs time to develop and he can't do that on the bench. We need talent on both sides before we spend a high draft pick on a qb. Harrington was a great prospect but he got put in before he was ready and behind a horrible oline combined with recievers that coated their hands with Land O' Lakes before games and he got gunshy from being sacked more than almost everyone in the league. This led to bad habits and pretty much ruined his career. I think if Harrington had sat for a year and then had been behind a decent oline he would be a good NFL qb today. I would hate to see that happen to another highly touted qb. Protect the qb first then get your franchise qb. Plus, you don't need a franchise qb to win (See Tennessee this year). Maybe to win it all you do but not to field a decent team. How is a #1 draft pick qb gonna help us if we still can't move the ball on the ground and he is constantly running for his life?

WMD
10-22-2008, 05:47 PM
Michael Oher falling past the Oakland Raiders was a surprise. Oher is far and away the best LT in the draft, and is going to shock the NFL world at the combine.

I'd bet good money on Oher not working out at the combine at all.

CC.SD
10-22-2008, 07:07 PM
Can't complain about Duke, especially with Mike Goff old and a free agent.

holt_bruce81
10-22-2008, 07:31 PM
Coffman gets no respect. He's the best TE in the draft.

Vikes99ej
10-22-2008, 07:38 PM
Coffman gets no respect. He's the best TE in the draft.

You spelled Gresham wrong.

bored of education
10-22-2008, 07:45 PM
Interesting pick with James L, Scott. I know scouts feel he is in the Mayo, Rivers type LB class, but not top 5 material. He could have measruables and a great combine which could boost his stock for sure. Im not saying its bad..but I see where when the draft comes, he could MAYBE reach top 5.

oldLibid21
10-22-2008, 07:47 PM
Hey, Scott. First, let me say thanks for posting the mock draft today. I had nothing better to do in my study hall but to read it. I always enjoy reading your mock drafts.

Anyways, to 'plead the case' for Atlanta, I don't see the Falcons going for a tight end in the first round - especially one that doesn't really spell "run blocker". In Mularkey's offense in Atlanta, our tight ends are more geared towards blocking first, being a receiver second. I know it's somewhat important for the quarterback that you're building around to have a tight end he can always rely on in the first round, but I think there are some pretty solid tight ends that are obvious "upgrades" to Hartsock (like you said) in the later rounds. Someone like the tight end from Boston College... not only has he played with Matt Ryan, but he's also a red zone target. The tight end I have in mind for the Falcons, if they decided to draft one so early in the first round, is Pettigrew. He's a very solid run blocker.

I don't think the Falcons should pass on Mays. He's the type of safety that, in my opinion, needs some time to develop in the NFL, and who'd be better to learn from than the 'wise' Milloy?

LonghornsLegend
10-22-2008, 07:52 PM
Ok, I'm confused, why do the Texans want a DE again? And if they do why do they want someone who plays the same position as Mario Williams? Not understanding that, because MJ is certainly not a LE, not even close.


Also Scott I know its early, but with MJ's lack of production he won't be a top 10 pick, Brian Orakpo has the same potential and every bit of a workout warrior(will probably test better) but he will have the production to match and may very well lead the nation in sacks...Michael Johnson might make top 15, but I highly doubt he goes before Orakpo...You may not change your rankings so far away, but I think your final rankings you will have him as a top 10 prospect before you know it and someone who is a lock for the top 10...I know you have him going to a 3-4 defense and personally thats where I projected him to, but he can play DE in a Cover 2 much like you have Selvie doing, with Orakpo it's going to come down to who needs him and who is picking, because he could fit in either pretty decent.


edit: just re-read and it says they are looking for an end opposite Mario, is Michael Johnson' frame big enough to hold the point of attack vs the run at the LE position? He seems like he needs to be playing RE.


I love the Gresham pick, felt they should of taken Bennett last year, and this is a key position for them personally I think would be a good one to address in the 1st rd, Ryan needs a big target to rely on and now they have no one, they need an elite body in there and Gresham is a complete total TE.

Vikes99ej
10-22-2008, 07:57 PM
I love the Vikings pick. He'd be awesome run blocker, and he's already a better pass-blocker than Ryan Cook.

Smokey Joe
10-22-2008, 08:05 PM
Seriously???

"Note: Please, please, please do not pay too much attention to the draft order. I started with a set of power rankings but then moved some teams up or down to make the players fit better. For example, New England probably isn't going to end up with a Top 15 pick and Minnesota will probably be picking higher than the twenties. Any posts criticizing the order will almost surely draw an infraction so let's focus on the players and teams, not the order."

Sorry Scott, I didn't see that. I have school in the morning, and I had to leave, but I couldn't leave without reading the mock real quick and making my comment. No hard feelings ;)

But seriously, Bears at 12? (I'm just kidding, please don't kill me).

essential
10-22-2008, 08:19 PM
While I like the idea of a great TE for the Bills, I think we have other needs. Specifically center, and I want Alex Mack. I think the Bills will be drafting in the mid to late twenties, and while centers rarely go in the first, Melvin Fowler is an UFA, and we won't re-sign him. The Bills love smart players, and I’ve read Mack is very intelligent along with being a road grader. Also, he won't last till our pick in the second, and I think there will be a very good TE in the second round this year for us, just like there were very good receivers left this year in the second.

We also are desperately in need of a pass rusher, but i'd prefer Mack.

My Bills wish list:
Alex Mack
Brian Orakpo
Aaron Curry
Jermaine Gresham
Terrence Cody

Smokey Joe
10-22-2008, 08:23 PM
Scott, why do you have Loadholt in the first round? Yes, he has tons of potential, but he still has a lot of flaws. I know he's like 6'8", but he always plays too high a lot of time, IMO. Also, he is lacking a lot in the department of pass protection. I could see him in round 2, but I highly doubt we see him going in the 1st.

Babylon
10-22-2008, 08:23 PM
Coffman gets no respect. He's the best TE in the draft.


It will be interesting as to how they match up at the combine. I actually dont think either one is a real fast player so hands and coordination will probably be the key. I do know Gresham has had some drops in games i've seen lately whereas Coffman seems to have stickem on his. We'll see.

wingboy2999
10-22-2008, 09:18 PM
My Lions perspective...

Stafford - While I agree with your franchise QB rule, the majority of Lions fan do want to see what we have in Stanton first before we have in Drew Stanton [here (http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2008/10/lions_in_perfect_spot_to_test.html) is a perfect way to do it]. Then we go from there. I don't know why, there is just something about Stafford that I'm not so sure about. I'd probably rather go with an OT and then look QB next year if Stanton is horrible. Because, let's face it, we aren't turning it around in a year. But REALLY I'd like the Lions to trade down and pick up a top OT.

Selvie - REALLY like this pick. We need a DE and while some people knock the size of Selvie, I know he can play. Watching the Big East, I am not a big fan of playing against him. People knocked Dumervil, another undersized Big East DE, but look at what he has done. So great pick there. I'm still hoping that pick is higher then #25 though, haha.

Babylon
10-22-2008, 09:56 PM
My Lions perspective...

Stafford - While I agree with your franchise QB rule, the majority of Lions fan do want to see what we have in Stanton first before we have in Drew Stanton [here (http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2008/10/lions_in_perfect_spot_to_test.html) is a perfect way to do it]. Then we go from there. I don't know why, there is just something about Stafford that I'm not so sure about. I'd probably rather go with an OT and then look QB next year if Stanton is horrible. Because, let's face it, we aren't turning it around in a year. But REALLY I'd like the Lions to trade down and pick up a top OT.

Selvie - REALLY like this pick. We need a DE and while some people knock the size of Selvie, I know he can play. Watching the Big East, I am not a big fan of playing against him. People knocked Dumervil, another undersized Big East DE, but look at what he has done. So great pick there. I'm still hoping that pick is higher then #25 though, haha.

As for the OT you probably can get a good one with that Dallas pick and who knows if they keep losing it may be a pretty decent one. As for Stafford or Bradford or whoever is there i'm sure there are a few teams like KC, Seattle, Houston, Miami.... that hope Detroit does want to pass.

Halsey
10-23-2008, 12:02 AM
Alright, i've been trying to quit messageboards, but I gotta give my criticism of the Titans pick.

First, I would like to say I like the Falcon's pick. I've been thinking Gresham might be a guy the Falcons will look hard at.

The pick I don't like is Percy Harvin to the Titans. First of all you have them picking at 32, but act as if they've made a huge mistake in not investing more in WR's. If they're picking 32, that's means they've won the Super Bowl and their way of building a team has worked. The Titans plan has been to build an offense around Vince Young. Yes, he is no longer starting, but that wasn't the plan coming into this season. It seems to me their thought process is that a big time WR would be wasted with Young because he's not a good down field passer. It's better to surround him with a good O-line, running backs and TE's, as well as taking pressure off the offense by having a great defense. They've been successful in that plan so far. Every team has weaknesses. Being strong just about everywhere else makes not having a game breaking WR quite tolerable. The question of whether or not they should pursue a game breaking WR this offseason comes down to whether or not they intend to give Young another shot as the starting QB. If so, my money says they'll continue to focus more on other areas that WR.

SaintsMan
10-23-2008, 03:12 AM
Great pick for the Saints.

Iamcanadian
10-23-2008, 08:07 AM
Backus is overated and Cherilus isn't playing in favor of George Foster thanks to our inept coaching. Cherilus is good and needs time to develop and he can't do that on the bench. We need talent on both sides before we spend a high draft pick on a qb. Harrington was a great prospect but he got put in before he was ready and behind a horrible oline combined with recievers that coated their hands with Land O' Lakes before games and he got gunshy from being sacked more than almost everyone in the league. This led to bad habits and pretty much ruined his career. I think if Harrington had sat for a year and then had been behind a decent oline he would be a good NFL qb today. I would hate to see that happen to another highly touted qb. Protect the qb first then get your franchise qb. Plus, you don't need a franchise qb to win (See Tennessee this year). Maybe to win it all you do but not to field a decent team. How is a #1 draft pick qb gonna help us if we still can't move the ball on the ground and he is constantly running for his life?

Of course Detroit hasn't had a decent QB since Bobby Layne in the 50's and we have made the playoffs only once since then. You cannot pass on a franchise QB IF one is available when you draft. Not if your interested in building any kind of Super Bowl contender. Harrington was junk from the word go. Mooch wanted him out but Millen insisted he play him and when Mooch finally got his way a year later, Garcia was injured all year and couldn't play.
Atlanta took Ryan last year with a mediocre OL and he's doing fine. Denver took Cutler without much of an OL and drafted a stud LT in this last draft and Cutler developed nicely.
It takes between 3 and 4 years to develop a solid NFL QB so if we pass on one this year, that means we'll continue to stink for at least another 5 years, that's provided we can find one next year or the year after, so you could be waiting 6 or 7 years before we are any kind of a team.
Cherilus isn't playing because he cannot beat out a pitiful George Foster for the RT position. He is looking more and more like another Matt Millen bust.

Scott Wright
10-23-2008, 10:59 AM
U think Tebow is staying, or do you not think he is 1st round material??

I have heard he is strongly considering coming out.

He is a potential late first rounder in my mind.

Turtlepower
10-23-2008, 12:09 PM
I have heard he is strongly considering coming out.

He is a potential late first rounder in my mind.

Any chance that a team like the Titans draft Tebow as a replacement for Vince Young or is it too soon already?

Scott Wright
10-23-2008, 12:38 PM
Any chance that a team like the Titans draft Tebow as a replacement for Vince Young or is it too soon already?

Wow, that's almost impossible to say.

If the Titans are really worried about Young and ready to write him off then I guess it's a possibility. Only Jeff Fisher could answer that one though.

scottyboy
10-23-2008, 02:55 PM
*insert obligatory selection order joke complaint here*

I love the Giants pick. Seems to be a popular pick and I like it. Kehl and Cushing could very well be our OLB tandem of the future. Jersey boy who just screams Giants to me. He'd be a great addition.

just one thing with the explanation, I think you never edited out from a the prior mock, but the Giants wouldn't go TE in the 1st. Boss has the talent, we just don't use TE's alot in the passing game
*i'm too damn picky haha* excellent work as always (even though there's no Rutgers players! :()

Don Vito
10-23-2008, 05:21 PM
I like Willie Moore a lot, I am assuming you have us putting him at free opposite Meriweather at strong. That would allow us to put James Sanders in a backup role and situational role, which he was made for. Sanders is a great depth guy who is smart and can play both safety spots, he just doesn't have every down athleticism. We need a corner and some OL help too, but I love the pick.

wingboy2999
10-23-2008, 07:18 PM
As for the OT you probably can get a good one with that Dallas pick and who knows if they keep losing it may be a pretty decent one. As for Stafford or Bradford or whoever is there i'm sure there are a few teams like KC, Seattle, Houston, Miami.... that hope Detroit does want to pass.

Well if Bradford comes out... take him no question.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-23-2008, 07:23 PM
I'm not sure I even remotely understand Laurinaitis going where you have him. I don't think he was there before this season started, and I don't think he's done anything to deserve this year.

If Cable sticks around, Smith would somewhat surprise me, but it's a pretty safe assumption that he won't be in Oakland come April. Good pick.

cfesh4
10-23-2008, 07:32 PM
Detroit has its franchice QB in drew stanton. once he gets healthy he will get his chance to prove him self. even if he is not that good danO is playing somewhat well, the offence is scoring over 20 points per game. the defence couldn't make the top 50 if they were playing collage ball. i think oher would be an ok pick, but we should look to defence with both 1st rd picks. a run stuffing DT and a compitent MLB will do.

Smokey Joe
10-23-2008, 07:34 PM
Detroit has its franchice QB in drew stanton. once he gets healthy he will get his chance to prove him self. even if he is not that good danO is playing somewhat well, the offence is scoring over 20 points per game. the defence couldn't make the top 50 if they were playing collage ball. i think oher would be an ok pick, but we should look to defence with both 1st rd picks. a run stuffing DT and a compitent MLB will do.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Stanton traded to the 49'ers (if Martz remains there) next year.

Scott Wright
10-23-2008, 08:55 PM
Just a note for those who mentioned that the Falcons and Giants don't need a tight end or don't have it high on their list of priorities:

Both teams tried to trade for Tony Gonzalez.

Geo
10-23-2008, 09:10 PM
Good point to bring up, however I'm not sure wanting to trade a fourth or third round pick in the Falcons' case for two years of Tony G equates to be willing to draft a tight end with a first round pick.

One could argue they don't use the tight end that much, or that maybe they don't use the tight end much because they don't have a stud. I'd probably go with the former personally, the Giants are better off having a a capable blocker (Boss might do) and three receivers on the field (Smith in the slot), and in the case of the Falcons, can't really recall the tight end being a big part of Mularkey's offense. Plus they have a slot guy they drated themselves in Douglas, although Jenkins will be a FA so they need another starter outside opposite of White if he isn't re-signed.

Both teams are much more likely to go defense than TE in the first round imo.

IceKubes
10-23-2008, 10:34 PM
Ok, I'm confused, why do the Texans want a DE again? And if they do why do they want someone who plays the same position as Mario Williams? Not understanding that, because MJ is certainly not a LE, not even close.


Also Scott I know its early, but with MJ's lack of production he won't be a top 10 pick, Brian Orakpo has the same potential and every bit of a workout warrior(will probably test better) but he will have the production to match and may very well lead the nation in sacks...Michael Johnson might make top 15, but I highly doubt he goes before Orakpo...You may not change your rankings so far away, but I think your final rankings you will have him as a top 10 prospect before you know it and someone who is a lock for the top 10...I know you have him going to a 3-4 defense and personally thats where I projected him to, but he can play DE in a Cover 2 much like you have Selvie doing, with Orakpo it's going to come down to who needs him and who is picking, because he could fit in either pretty decent.


edit: just re-read and it says they are looking for an end opposite Mario, is Michael Johnson' frame big enough to hold the point of attack vs the run at the LE position? He seems like he needs to be playing RE.


I love the Gresham pick, felt they should of taken Bennett last year, and this is a key position for them personally I think would be a good one to address in the 1st rd, Ryan needs a big target to rely on and now they have no one, they need an elite body in there and Gresham is a complete total TE.

I think it speaks more about Mario than MJ. Mario can play either end position and is routinely rotating as it is. I like the pick but I would like it better if it were Orakpo. That way he could play RE and Mario could shift over to LE. Either way the write up on the pick is spot on with end being priority 1 and if there isn't value there pretty much best available defender.

Mykdaneck
10-24-2008, 09:05 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Stanton traded to the 49'ers (if Martz remains there) next year.
Stanton hated that Martz messed with his mechanics. I highly doubt Stanton will want to be around Martz again.

On a Tebow note, I saw a mock that had him coming out and going to the Lions with the pick they got from the Cowboys. Interesting.....

ManOverboard
10-24-2008, 01:28 PM
The only thing I absolutely hate about your mock drafts Scott is that you always put how the Jets need a upgrade over Kenyon Coleman at Defensive End. Fact is he's one of the most solid performers at 3-4 RE. I watch every Jets game and replacing a 29 year old solid starter is not anywhere near the top of our concerns.

With Coles getting up there in age and getting all these concussions I would like to see us grab Darrius Heyward Bey as a solid replacement for him because he can learn under Coles and Cotchery and eventually fill into the #1 role for the Jets.

619
10-24-2008, 01:52 PM
The only thing I absolutely hate about your mock drafts Scott is that you always put how the Jets need a upgrade over Kenyon Coleman at Defensive End. Fact is he's one of the most solid performers at 3-4 RE. I watch every Jets game and replacing a 29 year old solid starter is not anywhere near the top of our concerns.

With Coles getting up there in age and getting all these concussions I would like to see us grab Darrius Heyward Bey as a solid replacement for him because he can learn under Coles and Cotchery and eventually fill into the #1 role for the Jets.

He's not perfect ya know. Could have went about it much more nicely too. I think you're delusional if you think Coleman's the long-term answer there. Fact of the matter is they really could use some youth on the line b/c we all know that he won't keep up this high level of play for long.

scottyboy
10-24-2008, 02:42 PM
Just a note for those who mentioned that the Falcons and Giants don't need a tight end or don't have it high on their list of priorities:

Both teams tried to trade for Tony Gonzalez.

this much is true, but the Giants were only willing to part with a 6th rounder for Gonzalez, and it was said he was more interested in us than we were in him.

I think the Falcons pick was a superb pick.

The Giants just don't use TE's, which is why we were willing to part with just a low pick for a HOF TE(albeit a rental) and we probably wouldn't use a 1st rounder on one.

ManOverboard
10-24-2008, 02:47 PM
He's not perfect ya know. Could have went about it much more nicely too. I think you're delusional if you think Coleman's the long-term answer there. Fact of the matter is they really could use some youth on the line b/c we all know that he won't keep up this high level of play for long.

Shaun Ellis is 31 and still playing the best he has, I would say look for a replacement at LE for Ellis instead of Coleman.

wingboy2999
10-24-2008, 03:31 PM
Well, we don't know if Stanton would be our franchise QB. And no way he gets traded to SF.

giantsfan
10-24-2008, 04:12 PM
I agree with both the 49ers' and Saints' pick.
Only one QB in the 1st round is interesting, but I'm glad you didn't throw Tebow's name in just because it has been the "thing to do".

Tebow isn't in the first round mix just because it's "the thing to do". Yes he plays in a system which plays to his strengths in college and makes things simple on him, but that just means he'll need longer to be ready to hit the field. He has a lot of tools to be a very successful NFL quarterback if he gets consistent good coaching and time to develop before being forced onto the field. That's why he's likely to end up going in the 15-25 range going to a team that's not elite, and has a veteran QB who could man the reigns for 2 years.

Also I think there's a very good chance he does come out because he's already done it all at the college level and he really isn't going to be developing the things he'll need to develop at the NFL level, so it makes much more sense for him to come out now and develop with an NFL coaching staff next year instead of developing more bad habits with Urban meyer.

iloxygenil
10-25-2008, 07:53 AM
Just a note for those who mentioned that the Falcons and Giants don't need a tight end or don't have it high on their list of priorities:

Both teams tried to trade for Tony Gonzalez.

I didn't say TE wasn't a need, I agree that it is, however I believe we have a lot higher needs than just that, I just asked to know more about the kid and what you thought about the other players I listed, Taylor Mays, Brian Orakpo etc instead for the Falcons. To me I'd rather have an elite player at another position of Need, than I would have a good player. Falcons don't use their TEs much, don't even look their way very often, so that's why I thought I'd ask. So any information you could give me on him I'd appreciate. I've seen his stats, and his size is impressive, just dunno what makes him so special he'd be selected that high in the first round.

Race for the Heisman
10-25-2008, 02:32 PM
Honestly, I saw Stafford first and thought, "Okay, this is a bit of a pattern now but it's plausible." Then I scrolled down and saw Laurinaitis second and I literally went: "Wtf?!" Out loud, to myself, as I'm watching Texas Tech mop up Kansas. Really, I like Laurinaitis, I legitimately believe he is worthy of a first round pick, but second overall?

Chris Wells at four was a little eye-raising but I think completely justified and it really makes sense.

I could see the Michael Johnson pick, but I think Houston would be better off with Hardy or Orakpo to complement Mario. They gambled on potential and got it right once, I don't know if that makes them more or less likely to do it again, but like I said, Hardy or Orakpo would be my choice, probably Orakpo if he works out as expected.

Still feel like Maualuga is too high as well.

Baltimore through New Orleans makes perfect sense for me. I don't like Knowshon to the Jets. I think if they want to draft a replacement for Thomas Jones this year they can wait a bit, like Dallas did in getting Tashard Choice last year. If the needed an immediate replacement, yes, but I don't think the situation is like that. Now would be a good time to get the franchise quarterback if Tebow was there.

Would defensive tackle be a bigger concern for Green Bay then defensive end? I'm a Bears fan so I know a little bit about them and I thought after trading Corey Williams away and having concerns over Jolly that defensive tackle would be a bigger concern.

I like most of the second half and I'm ever warming up to the Harvin pick a bit.

oldLibid21
10-25-2008, 05:07 PM
Just a note for those who mentioned that the Falcons and Giants don't need a tight end or don't have it high on their list of priorities:

Both teams tried to trade for Tony Gonzalez.

I realize that, but Gonzalez is a much better blocker than Gresham. I need to emphasize this again: Mularkey's tight ends are blockers first, receivers second. If you were going to give us a tight end, couldn't you at least give us the best blocking tight end in the draft with Pettigrew?

LonghornsLegend
10-25-2008, 05:18 PM
Falcons don't use their TEs much, don't even look their way very often.

That might have something to do with not having a TE worth throwing the ball to, or a TE that can consistently get open...I'd be willing to bet if they had a game changer at TE to work those underneath routes and get YAC consistently Ryan would love throwing the ball to him, Gresham would be a serious weapon I think and would pay dividends for the entire offense as he is a great run blocker.

brianr1986
10-25-2008, 09:16 PM
nice mock. as a detroit lions fan i do realize that they need a whole new team. but i think the lions in this draft should stay away from a QB. I think this because i would rather the year after go after a qb like McCoy from texas. Thats why i would like in this draft a LT like Other with their first pick and a DE that can be their number 1 de.

OaklandRaider56
10-25-2008, 11:17 PM
I think Brandon Spikes will be the top LB taken, neither Lauriniatis or Maualuga are as complete as him. I saw that you don't even have him going in the first round though, so if there's some major flaw he has that I haven't seen and me trying to say he's the best LB is stupid then tell me please.

also.

I really disagree with the Andre Smith pick, the ZBS is one of the few things that the Raiders have working for them offensively, I really don't expect Cable to be out of Oakland just yet. Orakpo could be great there seeing as no WRs are really good enough to be taken that high.

Leon Sandcastle
10-26-2008, 12:31 AM
If the Bills drafted Pettigrew in the 1st I'd be pretty disappointed, especially if George Selvie is still on the board.

I'm just hoping one of Selvie, Orakpo, Hardy drop to us.