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LonghornsLegend
10-24-2008, 12:40 PM
There has been a “rash of positive tests under the steroid policy as a result of players taking water pills to lose weight," a highly-placed NFL source said.

The source told FOX 31’s Josina Anderson Friday morning that New Orleans Saints’ running back Deuce McAllister, and defensive end Will Smith were included in the web of positive tests.

“There are about six to ten overall positive tests. Three to four of them are from the Saints organization alone including McAllister and Smith.

The source told Anderson there were no Denver Broncos players that were a part of this group.

McAllister and Smith are in a group of players that have tested positive specifically for a diuretic known as Bumetanide. Some of the players in the group of six to ten tested positive for a different substance.

"Most of them tested positive for Bumetanide," said the league source. "The last few tested positive for another substance that works similarly.”

Experts at the Mayo Clinic describe Bumetanide as a drug belonging to a group of medicines called loop diuretics or “water pills.” Its uses include the treatment of fluid retention and swelling caused by medical conditions such as congestive heart failure, liver disease, and kidney disease.

However, the source told Anderson that Bumetanide has another use which makes it one of the NFL’s banned substances.

“ can also mask the use of other drugs or steroids.”

Dr. Norman Smith, the lead physician at an internal medical practice in Maryland confirmed this assertion to Fox 31 Sports.

“Bumetanide makes you excrete a lot of salt and water. It dilutes the urine and makes it very difficult to test for illegal substances. There are some patients who use or abuse it where weight is critical,” Dr. Smith said.

Weight loss is the main reason the highly-placed league source identifies as to why this group of NFL players tested positive for this drug. “It seems to be clear that most of these players were doing it to cut weight.”

When the source was asked how they’re more confident these players used Bumetanide as a weight loss agent as opposed to a masking agent, the source replied, “I know that a few of these players have had weight issues.”

The source also suggested some of the players may not have known Bumetanide is on the NFL’s list of banned substances.

“I don’t think many of them are attempting to cheat, or even know it is on the list. We are talking big guys who have likely never seen a steroid in their life. My understanding of the steroid policy is that it was intended to catch cheaters or people using performance enhancing substances to gain a competitive edge. These guys don’t fall into that category,” said the source.

Regardless, all of the players in this group of positive tests, including McAllister and Smith, are subject to a suspension pending an appeal to the league. [b]Under the NFL’s steroid policy, a player’s first positive test results in a four-game suspension.
http://community.myfoxcolorado.com/blogs/Denvr_Sports_Insider/2008/10/24/BREAKING_Rash_of_positive_tests_under_NFLs_Steroid _Policy


Wow, 4 games?

Matthew Jones
10-24-2008, 12:45 PM
Looks like the Deuce is on the juice.

giantsfan
10-24-2008, 12:47 PM
When the source was asked how they’re more confident these players used Bumetanide as a weight loss agent as opposed to a masking agent, the source replied, “I know that a few of these players have had weight issues.”

gotta love that logic

Number 10
10-24-2008, 12:51 PM
I'm gonna wait until more information comes out about this. Don't rush to conclusions.

vatech=accdomination
10-24-2008, 01:08 PM
Juice Mcallistrrrrrrrrrrrr

BeerBaron
10-24-2008, 01:08 PM
aye. if its true that these guys have weight clauses in their contracts and were trying to lose it for that reason, it really sucks....

It could be evidence that clauses like that should be made against the rules or something because if some of these players are high profile guys, it really hurts the NFL to have to suspend them.

Menardo75
10-24-2008, 01:20 PM
Yeah I would not jump to anything until more facts come out.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-24-2008, 01:22 PM
I think Andy P. was on the juice when he was rehabbing from an injury. I wonder what the link is to players being injuried and using to try to get better faster. That's what Andy P said he used it for. I wonder how many players with injuries do that. Duece has been hurt recently in his career and I believe Smith was too, not totally sure. Just curious to see the coorelation of hurt players using it to rehab quicker.

yourfavestoner
10-24-2008, 01:40 PM
I think Andy P. was on the juice when he was rehabbing from an injury. I wonder what the link is to players being injuried and using to try to get better faster. That's what Andy P said he used it for. I wonder how many players with injuries do that. Duece has been hurt recently in his career and I believe Smith was too, not totally sure. Just curious to see the coorelation of hurt players using it to rehab quicker.

To be honest, I think that they're the main users. What motivation would a guy who is young, fresh, injury free, and in the best shape of his life have to use steroids? Now how about an older guy who has had an injury or two and is fighting to keep a roster spot and stay in the league against a bunch of young bucks. It's a young man's game, after all.

Think about it.

Saints-Tigers
10-24-2008, 02:04 PM
Smith hasn't been injured recently.

Fine, just suspend them, pour salt in our wounds!!

Hell, take Drew Brees too.

giantsfan
10-24-2008, 02:06 PM
Smith hasn't been injured recently.

Fine, just suspend them, pour salt in our wounds!!

Hell, take Drew Brees too.

I can't help but laugh at this point, it happened to the bills last year and my gmen a few years back, at some point all the players you miss just becomes funny.

awfullyquiet
10-24-2008, 02:06 PM
Wow. that's stupid.

"Under the NFL’s steroid policy, a player’s first positive test results in a four-game suspension."

Um... is Bumetanide a steroid? No. Why are these players being subject to steroid policy if they're 'not on steroids'... i don't care if they are or aren't... but the fact is, they DID NOT TEST POSITIVE FOR STEROIDS. therefore, they shouldn't be subject to a policy designed for steroids.

iloxygenil
10-24-2008, 02:08 PM
Smith hasn't been injured recently.

Fine, just suspend them, pour salt in our wounds!!

Hell, take Drew Brees too.

Drew Brees uses Advocare products, all natural not enhancement. My roommate sells them, they're top of the line sports and weight management supplements. If anyone is interested I can get them a hook up.

They won't be suspended yet, but man, that really would be another blow to the Saints. They're a good team, if they can have their players on the field. They're going to end up picking higher in the draft than they should, getting some stud to rectify their defense and bam...they're the NFC's powerhouse...oh that would suck...don't suspend em, let em play!

Babylon
10-24-2008, 02:11 PM
To be honest, I think that they're the main users. What motivation would a guy who is young, fresh, injury free, and in the best shape of his life have to use steroids? Now how about an older guy who has had an injury or two and is fighting to keep a roster spot and stay in the league against a bunch of young bucks. It's a young man's game, after all.

Think about it.

Using your logic i'm sure no highschoolers or collegiate players would ever use steriods being that they're young guys.

yourfavestoner
10-24-2008, 02:16 PM
Using your logic i'm sure no highschoolers or collegiate players would ever use steriods being that they're young guys.

We're not talking about high schoolers or collegiate players. We're talking about NFL players.

Babylon
10-24-2008, 02:20 PM
We're not talking about high schoolers or collegiate players. We're talking about NFL players.

My comment was in regards to you saying it's a problem with older players and why would some young guy in the prime of his life be on steroids. If so why do highschoolers and college players use?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-24-2008, 02:24 PM
I think what will happen is these guys are gonna be further tested. The quote says it dilutes the urine, but a hair or blood test shouldn't be affected, I'm assuming. Maybe they'll get a game or two anyway though.

saintsfan912
10-24-2008, 02:32 PM
So I guess any weight loss pill you can buy at any GNC is a steroid? Come on now NFL. The ridiculous fines for celebrations and now maybe suspending guys for weight loss pills? Give me a ******* break. Goodell is letting this power go to his head.

yourfavestoner
10-24-2008, 02:39 PM
My comment was in regards to you saying it's a problem with older players and why would some young guy in the prime of his life be on steroids. If so why do highschoolers and college players use?

Because the testing is much more lax in college and just about non-existent in high school. Plus, all those kids are still in the process of shaping and developing their bodies.

The NFL has one of the strictest performance-enhancing policies of any professional sport. Plus, by this point, most of these guys have already maxed out their body in terms of potential.

awfullyquiet
10-24-2008, 02:39 PM
So I guess any weight loss pill you can buy at any GNC is a steroid? Come on now NFL. The ridiculous fines for celebrations and now maybe suspending guys for weight loss pills? Give me a ******* break. Goodell is letting this power go to his head.

It's not ANY weight loss pill though.

That's where the issue comes up then.

saintsfan912
10-24-2008, 03:04 PM
It's not ANY weight loss pill though.

That's where the issue comes up then.

I know, it was just a little sarcasm. It is all really ridiculous.

Geo
10-24-2008, 03:06 PM
So I guess any weight loss pill you can buy at any GNC is a steroid? Come on now NFL. The ridiculous fines for celebrations and now maybe suspending guys for weight loss pills? Give me a ******* break. Goodell is letting this power go to his head.
Not a chance in fact. The NFL is adamant, and has made no bones about it, that every single player is responsible for what they put into their body. The league additionally provides a list of acceptable items, for players to check and be sure.

brat316
10-24-2008, 03:15 PM
Not a chance in fact. The NFL is adamant, and has made no bones about it, that every single player is responsible for what they put into their body. The league additionally provides a list of acceptable items, for players to check and be sure.

Yeah they are getting 4 games, all of them. You know what is banned and what isn't, why would you take it. They knew what was going to happen if they got caught. Even if you were using it as a weight loss pill, it doesn't matter because its on the list of banned substances.

FlyingElvis
10-24-2008, 03:18 PM
^ Right. The banned substances list is available. It is the responsibility of the club & player to ensure they are in compliance.

Ignorance is no excuse.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
10-24-2008, 03:22 PM
I agree, these guys can't just be taking pills if they don't know everything about them. The guidelines are strict and enforced, it is no one's fault but their own if they don't follow them. Why make excuses for them?

awfullyquiet
10-24-2008, 03:28 PM
^ Right. The banned substances list is available. It is the responsibility of the club & player to ensure they are in compliance.

Ignorance is no excuse.

Substance policy isn't the 'steroids policy' though. These players are for 'substance' policy, not steroids policy as the article is reporting. If the league is pursuing them for steroids related infractions, the league is out of line...

Watchman
10-24-2008, 03:35 PM
Substance policy isn't the 'steroids policy' though. These players are for 'substance' policy, not steroids policy as the article is reporting. If the league is pursuing them for steroids related infractions, the league is out of line...

I don't know if they are one in the same or not. If they aren't, what is the penalty for testing positive for a banned substance? I don't see why the NFL would have a "banned substance" policy and a separate "steriod policy". Seems like it all relates to stuff you can't take or you'll pay the price.

awfullyquiet
10-24-2008, 03:41 PM
I don't know if they are one in the same or not. If they aren't, what is the penalty for testing positive for a banned substance? I don't see why the NFL would have a "banned substance" policy and a separate "steriod policy". Seems like it all relates to stuff you can't take or you'll pay the price.

iirc, the steroids policy was newer, and harsher, than the substance policy.

Borat
10-24-2008, 03:57 PM
Wow. that's stupid.

"Under the NFL’s steroid policy, a player’s first positive test results in a four-game suspension."

Um... is Bumetanide a steroid? No. Why are these players being subject to steroid policy if they're 'not on steroids'... i don't care if they are or aren't... but the fact is, they DID NOT TEST POSITIVE FOR STEROIDS. therefore, they shouldn't be subject to a policy designed for steroids.

AQ, the league views "masking agents" like this Bumetanide product the same as actual steroids.

FlyingElvis
10-24-2008, 04:16 PM
AQ, the league views "masking agents" like this Bumetanide product the same as actual steroids.

This was the impression I got from the article linked. Because it can be used as a masking agent it gets lumped in w/the steroid policy. But I am not sure if there is a difference between "Banned Substance" and "Steroid" in the eyes of the league. It may be 2 separate policies - but I've always interpreted stories about effedra & such as part of one "banned substance" list.

awfullyquiet
10-24-2008, 04:25 PM
AQ, the league views "masking agents" like this Bumetanide product the same as actual steroids.

Then, i have a beef with this decision and with that policy.

from the tribune today...

"Diuretics also can be used as masking agents. When used in that capacity the diuretic dilutes the urine, which results in lower levels of the banned substance being excreted from the body. That can make it more difficult to detect banned substances."

But it doesn't mean it's impossible, and yes, these players are on diuretics, some of them can probably use diuretics.

edit: if there's no evidence that they did do steroids, this pill shouldn't be under such a harsh because it does have some legitimate usage. whereas, i don't disagree with the possible suspension of players (if it's on the list, don't use it. duh... i'm sure we can all agree with that), but i do think it's ridiculous that it's on the list.

i can think of the game that cyclists and the world anti-doping agency (and it's french counterparts) have played for years, where the wada now has the strictest drug policy and the best testing internationally (although, i still believe the french manage to screw up testing protocol)... they're not satisfied with saying 'you took masking agents'. no. especially with something as simple as diuretics. they'd be looking at miniscule parts per whatever of steroids compared to parts per whatever of bumetinide... make a ratio... and figure out if the trail of time on steroids.

basically. this goes to the NFL. get better testing. don't punish players for substances that aren't performance enhancing... if you want to prove they're doing steroids or other illegal drugs... prove they're doing them.

Mr. Stiller
10-24-2008, 04:40 PM
Then, i have a beef with this decision and with that policy.

from the tribune today...

"Diuretics also can be used as masking agents. When used in that capacity the diuretic dilutes the urine, which results in lower levels of the banned substance being excreted from the body. That can make it more difficult to detect banned substances."

But it doesn't mean it's impossible, and yes, these players are on diuretics, some of them can probably use diuretics.

edit: if there's no evidence that they did do steroids, this pill shouldn't be under such a harsh because it does have some legitimate usage. whereas, i don't disagree with the possible suspension of players (if it's on the list, don't use it. duh... i'm sure we can all agree with that), but i do think it's ridiculous that it's on the list.

i can think of the game that cyclists and the world anti-doping agency (and it's french counterparts) have played for years, where the wada now has the strictest drug policy and the best testing internationally (although, i still believe the french manage to screw up testing protocol)... they're not satisfied with saying 'you took masking agents'. no. especially with something as simple as diuretics. they'd be looking at miniscule parts per whatever of steroids compared to parts per whatever of bumetinide... make a ratio... and figure out if the trail of time on steroids.

basically. this goes to the NFL. get better testing. don't punish players for substances that aren't performance enhancing... if you want to prove they're doing steroids or other illegal drugs... prove they're doing them.

It only "Masks" their urine. And with Synthetic Urine and the likes... why not use Hair samples?

You can't "Mask it" and it's much easier and detectable.

awfullyquiet
10-24-2008, 05:01 PM
It only "Masks" their urine. And with Synthetic Urine and the likes... why not use Hair samples?

You can't "Mask it" and it's much easier and detectable.

exactly. the nfl can't be stuck in the 90's.

Bruce Banner
10-24-2008, 05:17 PM
The league(s) need(s) to step up to the plate and pay for blood testing.

They can't continue to half ass it.

SaintsMan
10-24-2008, 05:20 PM
And I thought losing Reggie was the final blow. No Deuce or Smith for 4 weeks would put the nail in the coffin.

Flyboy
10-24-2008, 05:24 PM
*shakes head*

I have no words at this point.

I'm going to go to the corner where Geo can console me. :(

Saints-Tigers
10-24-2008, 05:34 PM
We'll probably win the next 4, get everyone healthy, and falter and fall to 8 and 8, getting a ****** pick, and no playoff berth.

SaintsMan
10-24-2008, 05:44 PM
Yeah, if the Saints are going to lose, hopefully we end up with a high draft pick. We need another impact Defensive player like Sedrick Ellis. But I hope we can put some wins together and make the playoffs.

Geo
10-24-2008, 05:54 PM
All of these guys are in the process of appeal I believe, so if there is still a suspension coming, it's not necessarily coming next week.

In the case of McAllister at least, he might try and delay it a bit so that it's spaced closer to Bush's return. If not, the Saints still have Pierre Thomas and also Aaron Stecker, I think they are going to come into the picture with Deuce anyways as guys who can come in and try to fill for Reggie, slash a bit and receive the ball. Thomas can do more than that.

Losing Will Smith is tough, a guy like McCray can play in his stead but it's a different dynamic than at RB.

awfullyquiet
10-24-2008, 05:56 PM
All of these guys are in the process of appeal I believe, so if there is still a suspension coming, it's not necessarily coming next week.

In the case of McAllister at least, he might try and delay it a bit so that it's spaced closer to Bush's return. If not, the Saints still have Pierre Thomas and also Aaron Stecker, I think they are going to come into the picture with Deuce anyways as guys who can come in and try to fill for Reggie, slash a bit and receive the ball. Thomas can do more than that.

Losing Will Smith is tough, a guy like McCray can play in his stead but it's a different dynamic than at RB.

note to self: don't pick up thomas or stecker on the FA FF market.

Geo
10-24-2008, 06:07 PM
My waiver claim for Thomas was successful, I'm pleased to say.

As was my later waiver claim for Greg Camarillo.

No I didn't test positive for anything. :)

iloxygenil
10-24-2008, 06:08 PM
All of these guys are in the process of appeal I believe, so if there is still a suspension coming, it's not necessarily coming next week.

In the case of McAllister at least, he might try and delay it a bit so that it's spaced closer to Bush's return. If not, the Saints still have Pierre Thomas and also Aaron Stecker, I think they are going to come into the picture with Deuce anyways as guys who can come in and try to fill for Reggie, slash a bit and receive the ball. Thomas can do more than that.

Losing Will Smith is tough, a guy like McCray can play in his stead but it's a different dynamic than at RB.

Stecker is reportedly another player caught up in this scandal...so that'd leave them with just Thomas.

Geo
10-24-2008, 06:16 PM
Time for Sean Payton to go back to his Giants days and call, well Tiki Barber is still retired, but here comes the Dayne Train! Ron Dayne, woot woot

And maybe Mike Bell.

Tatum Bell, keep waiting for that call.

FuzzyGopher
10-24-2008, 07:43 PM
The funny thing is that this substance dehydrates you so much that the muscle can seize and actually tear away. It makes you very prone to serious injury and even organ failure. I know bodybuilders that won't touch this stuff and they take enough steroids to compete in the Kentucky Derby.

Also this is not a OTC product, it is prescription only so it's not like they bought it from GNC and didn't know what they were getting. They either bought it online from an overseas source or a Dr. hooked them up.

CC.SD
10-24-2008, 08:32 PM
So when do we get the complete list? Great to hear that Deuce and Will Smith have been outed but won't get suspended in time for it to make any difference to the Chargers. Here's hoping backup WR Malcolm Floyd has a big game against the Saints, rumor around the Charger boards is that he might be on it too.

BlindSite
10-24-2008, 09:40 PM
Yeah, can we please not have everyone acting like Morons and saying everyone on the saints organization is on roids. So far they haven't been proven to be using any steroids at all.

SaintsMan
10-24-2008, 10:04 PM
Add Charles Grant to the list. :(

Saints-Tigers
10-24-2008, 11:03 PM
To be honest, I LOVE Deuce, but it would explain how he's come back so strong and fast from this previous injury.

dunagan15
10-25-2008, 12:43 AM
where are yall getting the extra players other than Duece and Smith that are on this list??

yourfavestoner
10-25-2008, 02:43 AM
Substance policy isn't the 'steroids policy' though. These players are for 'substance' policy, not steroids policy as the article is reporting. If the league is pursuing them for steroids related infractions, the league is out of line...

There is no 'steroids policy' per se. Steroids, and the weight loss pills that these players tested positive for, all fall under the 'performance enhancing drugs' policy. Recreational drugs fall under the 'substance abuse' policy.

Testing positive for a 'performance enhancer' incurs an automatic four-week suspension. Testing positive for a recreational drug will result in a warning and automatic enrollment into the league's Substance Abuse Program. A second offense results in a four week suspension. A third results in a one year ban. Because its the league's policy to be confidential concerning failed drug tests and punishments (usually, it's the team or player's agent that leaks the news to the media), you oftentimes don't even know that a player is in the Substance Abuse Program and has been caught once before.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-25-2008, 02:55 PM
To be honest, I think that they're the main users. What motivation would a guy who is young, fresh, injury free, and in the best shape of his life have to use steroids? Now how about an older guy who has had an injury or two and is fighting to keep a roster spot and stay in the league against a bunch of young bucks. It's a young man's game, after all.

Think about it.

Well I mean there would be stupid guys trying to use it to be good for just 1 big pay day and then go off it. I know that was a topic talked about on the WFAN here in NY area. They had a topic about how baseball players would take it for 1 bigtime pay day, and then go off it, and still their contract is guarenteeded.


But I can see why injuried players would take it. I am sure SOME were good without it, and got hurt, and thought well people know I am good, and right now I am hurt so I will take it while I am rehabbing, and perhaps alittle afterwards, and then go off it, and no one would know because I had those stats without ever taking it.

I mean it's just a guess but I am sure that could be a valid reason for taking it. Not that I agree, because it's still cheating, but I've noticed guys who taked it got hurt or have been hurt. Too many cases for coincidence in my opinion.

FuzzyGopher
10-25-2008, 04:56 PM
I guarantee you that steroids are a lot more prevalent in football than most people think.

Shiver
10-25-2008, 09:19 PM
http://www.mediafreesports.com/media/dictator_nfl.jpg

Geo
10-26-2008, 11:09 AM
Jay Glazer just broke the news right now on the Fox pre-game show that the Vikings' Williams DT duo is also facing a suspension in this. Also I believe he named Grady Jackson of the Falcons as well.

Wow.

PackerLegend
10-26-2008, 11:11 AM
Add Pat Williams, Kevin Williams, and Grady Jackson to that list. Coming from Jay Glazer on fox pregame. Darn a couple Vikings :( SUSPEND them Now!

Flyboy
10-26-2008, 11:16 AM
Per Mort on NFL Countdown, the Saints players were taking StarCaps, a dietary product that doesn't list the banned substance in it's ingredients. The Saints players are contemplating lawsuits against the pills manufacturers. One defense would be that "why would I think to have this product tested if none of the ingredients are listed by the NFL as a banned substance?"

Interesting...

Chucky
10-26-2008, 11:18 AM
Interesting...

They will still get suspended. They can just sue the company.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 11:27 AM
Jay Glazer just broke the news right now on the Fox pre-game show that the Vikings' Williams DT duo is also facing a suspension in this. Also I believe he named Grady Jackson of the Falcons as well.

Wow.


Going after the fatties.

http://nationallampoonsplog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/pre_jax01-1.jpg

http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/36/369661.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09es6u2a8i2Tg/340x.jpg

Borat
10-26-2008, 11:28 AM
Man, could the NFL please test Barry Sims. I wouldn't mind him getting a 4-game suspension.

The Dynasty
10-26-2008, 11:29 AM
There goes our run stopping defense....EJ Out and now Kevin and Pat might be out for four games...not a good year.

djp
10-26-2008, 11:32 AM
Kevin Williams isn't fat, just big.

TitleTown088
10-26-2008, 11:56 AM
Wow, Pat AND Kevin. That could easily be the vikings season right there.

The Dynasty
10-26-2008, 11:59 AM
Wow, Pat AND Kevin. That could easily be the vikings season right there.

Yeah....Its not looking good. Its pretty bad when I had to go look up our Back up DT's because I dont even remember who it was...Well its Fred Evans and Otis Grisgby.....

TitleTown088
10-26-2008, 12:01 PM
Yeah....Its not looking good. Its pretty bad when I had to go look up our Back up DT's because I dont even remember who it was...Well its Fred Evans and Otis Grisgby.....

Isn't the man wonder Kedrick Allen still on the team?

The Dynasty
10-26-2008, 12:02 PM
Isn't the man wonder Kedrick Allen still on the team?

Not to my knowledge.

umphrey
10-26-2008, 01:01 PM
Wow, Pat AND Kevin. That could easily be the vikings season right there.

Are they clones? I don't think I've ever heard one's name without the other in the same sentence.

ATLDirtyBirds
10-26-2008, 01:40 PM
Kevin Williams isn't fat, just big.


He's still got a good ole gut just like any DT.

NY+Giants=NYG
10-26-2008, 07:57 PM
I guarantee you that steroids are a lot more prevalent in football than most people think.

It is at ALL levels of the game.. I coached TE at a D3 college last year, and we had users on our team. In fact in the college level it's really used alot. My season last year was pretty much like the movie THE PROGRAM with Halle berry. We had all sorts of drama last season on my team.

FuzzyGopher
10-26-2008, 09:14 PM
It is at ALL levels of the game.. I coached TE at a D3 college last year, and we had users on our team. In fact in the college level it's really used alot. My season last year was pretty much like the movie THE PROGRAM with Halle berry. We had all sorts of drama last season on my team.

I have heard steroid testing in college is an absolute joke. Steroid users will always be one step ahead of steroid testers as it's science vs. science. You have to know what compound your looking for when testing, and the creators just slightly change the compound or make it convert to something else in the body and you get a 'designer' steroid. That's how pro athletes do it anyways, I think college kids just stick the the traditional stuff because the testing protocol sucks so bad they don't have to worry about getting caught.

They should really test for estrogen blockers and serms if they want to catch people.

TitleTown088
10-27-2008, 10:11 AM
You'd think of all teams anyone on the Vikings would know not to take diuretics... http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1278821&type=news

FuzzyGopher
10-27-2008, 10:42 AM
It's all about money and the big guys have a lot more on the line. Every year there are a handful of OL/DL guys that are inactive during training camp because they are overweight. Some players even have weight clauses and bonuses in their contracts. When your 320 lbs. you need to eat a ton to maintain that mass and these guys are not eating chicken and brown rice, I'm sure they are eating fast food and going out to expensive restaurants. If your job told you that you are overweight and could not work until you lost X amount of pounds what would you do? You can lose 10-15 lbs. taking a diuretic so it is the quickest easiest way to make weight.

Flyboy
10-28-2008, 01:50 AM
Deuce McAllister, Charles Grant, and Will Smith are not expected to have the appeal of their potential four-game suspensions for violating the NFL's steroids policy heard until mid-November.

It appears they are in the clear until then, which should give Deuce enough time to fit in starts at the Falcons and at Kansas City before Reggie Bush (knee surgery) is due back. New Orleans is currently on its bye week.
Source: FOXSports.com

Well, that's... um, good.

eaglesalltheway
10-28-2008, 07:26 AM
To my knowledge, they still need to name one more person, is that correct? The longsnapper for the texans was named, the three saints players, The Williams DTs, and Grady Jackson, that is seven. I remember hearing that it is at least 8 players, and could be up to 10 or twelve.

As said before, the diuretic could be used as a masking agent, or for its intended purpose of losing weight, but another thing water pills cold potentially be used for is covering up an nderlying condition that may prevent a player from playing. I don't know nearly enough in the medical field to even wager a guess, but if it can cover up things put in the body, it should cover up things produced maturally by the body as well. I don't know if there would even be a reason for a player to cover up an underlying condition, and it is most likely that none of them have a condidtion to cover up, but it is just something that it may be used for. But for whatever purpose, it is a banned substance for a reason, and under no circumstances should you take it.

As for the Saints players that are suing the company because it doesn't list the banned substances. There are plenty of team doctors that know enouogh that they should know what is in it. Ignorance is not an excuse. If a company doesn't list banned substances on it at all, that is a little suspicious, and they shouldn't have been taking it if they don't know everything that is in it anyway. I'm not picking on the saints guys it is just the one story has that as a possible excuse.

Personally, if it comes back that any of these guys used the diuretic to cover up steroids, I want them suspended to full extent. Baseball does it, I don't want a double standard in football, it isn't right. Steroids is a bunch of ********, and I don't want anyone involved in that to be a part of the greatest game in the world. Even if it meant cleaning house, I want a clean game, and it may sound naive, but that is just how I feel. This should be getting more coverage, and hopefully once the World Series is over it will be covered more.

iloxygenil
10-28-2008, 09:19 AM
I'm pretty sure big Grady didn't need roids, lol, he's just fat. Oh well, his fault for not reading the ingredients, he's going to get parked like everyone else, and that sucks for the Falcons.

FuzzyGopher
10-28-2008, 07:27 PM
Personally, if it comes back that any of these guys used the diuretic to cover up steroids, I want them suspended to full extent. Baseball does it, I don't want a double standard in football, it isn't right. Steroids is a bunch of ********, and I don't want anyone involved in that to be a part of the greatest game in the world. Even if it meant cleaning house, I want a clean game, and it may sound naive, but that is just how I feel. This should be getting more coverage, and hopefully once the World Series is over it will be covered more.

Lol, than say good bye to half the league. I don't get why people are so against anabolic steroids, I mean cortico steroids are legal. If players did not take cortico steroids they would miss a lot more games than they do now. Plus cortico steroids can take away pain but the injury is still there and it can cause more damage if they keep playing through injury.

BlindSite
10-28-2008, 07:35 PM
They're chemically different and have completley different side affects.

FuzzyGopher
10-28-2008, 07:39 PM
What do side effects have to do with anything? They are both performance enhancers.

JT Jag
10-28-2008, 10:44 PM
Update: Jamar Nesbitt, guard for the Saints, received a 4-game suspension after testing positive for the same substance in the "water pills".

He was not, however, taking water pills--- he was taking another legal supplement that was incidentally contaminated by the banned substance. The banned substance was not on the ingredient list.

Smooth Criminal
10-29-2008, 08:43 AM
Sucks for Nesbit, but it is clear in the policy that players are responsible for what they take. And I saw on ESPN bottomline that Nesbit is sueing the company because of the contamination.

awfullyquiet
10-29-2008, 09:30 AM
Sucks for Nesbit, but it is clear in the policy that players are responsible for what they take. And I saw on ESPN bottomline that Nesbit is sueing the company because of the contamination.

Which, imo, is a good thing. Businesses should be held responsible for putting on the label what they have in their products.

I think at the core of the issue though, it's still more than steroids and more about fat asses.

eaglesalltheway
10-29-2008, 02:07 PM
Lol, than say good bye to half the league. I don't get why people are so against anabolic steroids, I mean cortico steroids are legal. If players did not take cortico steroids they would miss a lot more games than they do now. Plus cortico steroids can take away pain but the injury is still there and it can cause more damage if they keep playing through injury.

If that is the case, then so be it. I wish the leagues and our government (not intended politically) would have the cajones to make the people caught with the illegal performance-enhancing substances pay the price, and an actual one, not the slap on the wrist that does nothing. It is extreme, but people caught using performance enhancers that are illegal should be kicked out after their second confirmed offense. I wouldn't want it to be the first because they are lab errors that oculd occur. I go by the saying, "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me." After that, players should be done for life.

I had a friend who was on steroids for a bit, it changed him so much, he got in so much trouble and got in trouble with the cops because of anger problems. I've seen how it changes people, and I don't think anyone should have to live with that. i.e family and friends. People would sya the most inconsequential thing and he would say, "What, you wanna fight?" Some times he would be joking, but others he wasn't and it is impossible to tell until he started going berserk. Luckily, he is off now, but he was on for about a year and he was completely different person. It is something you don't really see until it happerns first hand.

eaglesalltheway
10-29-2008, 02:09 PM
Sucks for Nesbit, but it is clear in the policy that players are responsible for what they take. And I saw on ESPN bottomline that Nesbit is sueing the company because of the contamination.

I can understand a case like that where a chemical that isn't supposed to be in there is put in by accident, but most situations are inexcusable.

#1chiefs_fan
10-29-2008, 06:04 PM
how many players are involved exactly? is there anywhere with an exact list?

eaglesalltheway
10-31-2008, 06:17 AM
Did I kill this thread by getting too serious?

If so, my bad guys, I'm sorry.