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Loggerhead
10-28-2008, 03:35 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/10/28/cottrell-out-rivera-in-for-the-bolts/

TitleTown088
10-28-2008, 03:37 PM
Ron Riv in. I'm glad he's not in the Norris any longer.

Gay Ork Wang
10-28-2008, 03:45 PM
damn bantx is gonna party himself to death

Loggerhead
10-28-2008, 03:45 PM
Now onto Bruce Arians... Good move for the Chargers. With all the talent they have its ridiculous that they're are giving up so many points. But Rivera has never run a 3-4, should be fun to watch.

Xenos
10-28-2008, 03:46 PM
Bear fans, how is he as a DC in general?

My biggest concern is his knowledge of running the 3-4.

Rayray52
10-28-2008, 04:24 PM
Its funny how much impact 1 player can have, people say that the NFL is different and one player cannot impact an entire team....if Merriman is healthy this team is probably at least 2 wins better and cottrell still has his job.

Basileus777
10-28-2008, 04:41 PM
With all the talent they have its ridiculous that they're are giving up so many points. But Rivera has never run a 3-4, should be fun to watch.

Without Merriman, their talent on defense isn't all that great. They have no one at ILB or safety. Their only quality linebacker, Phillips, is more of a complementary pass rusher. He can't handle the double teams Merriman does. Their best corner is Jammer, who is solid but unspectacular. The defensive line has underperformed this season.

Cottrell was awful, but I think he was just making a below-average defense terrible.

bantx
10-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Oh My Sweet Jesus Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rayray52
10-28-2008, 04:45 PM
I would still rate the charges talent as good, when you have guys like Jamal Williams, Luis Castillo, Shaun Phillips, Jammer and Cromartie (although hes been half ******** this year) your defense should still be in the top half of the leauge.

SFbear
10-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Bear fans, how is he as a DC in general?

My biggest concern is his knowledge of running the 3-4.

He's not really an X's and O's guy but more of a motivator. As a Bears fan I'm ambivalent towards him because we obviously had a very succesful defense under him but I thought he did a terrible job scheming in the 2006 playoff game vs. Carolina and in the Superbowl. We let him go because he was always off on job interviews for HC positions when we were getting ready for playoff games.

He played with Singletary on the 85 Bears, learned from Jim Johnson's blitzing D in Philadelphia, and learned the Tampa 2 from Lovie. So really all he knows about the 3-4, he learned from Cottrell. Let that sink in for a second before you get too optimistic in San Diego.

SuperKevin
10-28-2008, 04:50 PM
I'd say their defensive woes are less about Merriman and more about Antonio Cromartie going for the big play every play. He let last year get to his head.

bantx
10-28-2008, 04:53 PM
Without Merriman, their talent on defense isn't all that great. They have no one at ILB or safety. Their only quality linebacker, Phillips, is more of a complementary pass rusher. He can't handle the double teams Merriman does. Their best corner is Jammer, who is solid but unspectacular. The defensive line has underperformed this season.

Cottrell was awful, but I think he was just making a below-average defense terrible.

We have no ILB? Stephen Cooper says hi, he led the team in tackles last year having over 100 and this year missing 4 games and came back playing has helped the run defense a little but nothing too noticeable. He has played 4 games this year and already have 34 tackles and a sack. But i cant argue with the rest.

Its funny how much impact 1 player can have, people say that the NFL is different and one player cannot impact an entire team....if Merriman is healthy this team is probably at least 2 wins better and cottrell still has his job.

Now onto Bruce Arians... Good move for the Chargers. With all the talent they have its ridiculous that they're are giving up so many points. But Rivera has never run a 3-4, should be fun to watch.


Yeah thats great that you can guess how many more wins we could have with shawne merriman, when a defense loses their leader its a big blow and ur suppose to expect them to play with the same level as they did last year? not the mention we didnt have stephen cooper for the 1st 4 games. Go take your assumptions somewhere else.

AND edit: RayRay read your post a wrong so ignore me, but with merriman or not Ted doesnt know how or what a blitz is i would have wanted him out with or without merriman playing

bantx
10-28-2008, 04:56 PM
And yes Cromartie is playing for interceptions this year and i blame his cockiness from last year for playing this bad.

P-L
10-28-2008, 04:57 PM
Cromartie's problem is that stupid interception goal he set.

Menardo75
10-28-2008, 05:14 PM
Hoepfully this move pays off for them.

SuperKevin
10-28-2008, 05:18 PM
Part of me wonders if the Chargers issues at safety could be fixed by moving Cromartie to FS and sliding Cason into the starting lineup at CB. Cromartie seems to be much better playing in space and being a ballhawk rather than trying to stay in man to man coverage.

Menardo75
10-28-2008, 05:20 PM
Part of me wonders if the Chargers issues at safety could be fixed by moving Cromartie to FS and sliding Cason into the starting lineup at CB. Cromartie seems to be much better playing in space and being a ballhawk rather than trying to stay in man to man coverage.

I thought about that too seems kind of silly to draft a guy that you plan in playing in the nickel in the first round. The Chargers have been able to get away with slightly above average safety play the past few years. Without the pass rush they have been pretty exposed.

bantx
10-28-2008, 05:24 PM
I dont see that happening this year, im not sold on cletis gordon being our nickelback

SaintsMan
10-28-2008, 05:25 PM
I wish the Saints Organization was like the Chargers. Our DC is probably much worse and we simply refuse to let him go.

Menardo75
10-28-2008, 05:26 PM
I dont see that happening this year, im not sold on cletis gordon being out nickelback

Mike Nolan Charger fans?

Mr. Stiller
10-28-2008, 05:41 PM
Now onto Bruce Arians... Good move for the Chargers. With all the talent they have its ridiculous that they're are giving up so many points. But Rivera has never run a 3-4, should be fun to watch.

Yeah, but the difference is there is 0 way the Steelers Fire Arians at 5-2.

Who would step up?

Ken Anderson? He was an excellent QB and seems to be a good coach..

James Daniel? Randy Fichtner? Kirby Wilson? Larry Z?

There's not a guy on this roster on the offensive side that I believe could step up and coordinate. MAYBE Anderson.

You'd have to Hire someone and frankly, I do agree if we were 3-4 it'd be a good idea.

I honestly just don't know who's out there. With the Firing of Cottrell I'm guessing Norv is safe for another year .. F***.. What Norv could do with this offense.

But frankly, I really don't know who to pick up.

Loggerhead
10-28-2008, 05:51 PM
Anderson would be a great choice. As a former QB he should communicate well with Roethlisberger and help him improve and no matter what he will be an upgrade over BA.

bantx
10-28-2008, 07:54 PM
How did this turn into a steelers discussion? Lets all party and be happy Ted is out of a job!

bored of education
10-28-2008, 08:07 PM
I really saw this comming, who didn't? Good move IMO

tjsunstein
10-28-2008, 08:07 PM
Part of me wonders if the Chargers issues at safety could be fixed by moving Cromartie to FS and sliding Cason into the starting lineup at CB. Cromartie seems to be much better playing in space and being a ballhawk rather than trying to stay in man to man coverage.

Yes! Thank you. I've been saying this since week 1. +rep

GB12
10-28-2008, 10:39 PM
Isn't this his first year ever running a 3-4. Is he ready to be the head of the defense after just 8 weeks of the system?

SFbear
10-28-2008, 10:43 PM
Isn't this his first year ever running a 3-4. Is he ready to be the head of the defense after just 8 weeks of the system?

Get ready to find out.

bantx
10-28-2008, 10:44 PM
Right now im hopeful, anything other than Ted Cottrell right now is better.

EDIT:
and again i cant see Cromartie get moved to the safety position this year, i just dont like cletis gordon as our nickle back. Eric Weddle isnt doing a horrible job, our line cant get any type of pressure on the QB and it doesnt help when we dont send any type of blitz. Weddle is leading the team in tackles too.

Xenos
10-28-2008, 11:31 PM
Isn't this his first year ever running a 3-4. Is he ready to be the head of the defense after just 8 weeks of the system?
He's been in the system for a year and a half now, so hopefully he does know.

CC.SD
10-29-2008, 01:16 AM
Very happy over here.

Ted Cottrell...honestly a lot of the patheticness of our defense CAN be put on him, despite our very real personnel issues this year.

We've got a lot of talent at the cornerback position, yet they've spent all year playing 10 to 15 yard cushions.

We run a 3-4 defense, yet don't blitz NEARLY enough and don't stunt.

The results are in the numbers. Last against the pass. Near the bottom in a ton of other categories. How could Rivera be worse? He knows he is being put in there to be more aggressive. He's not a moron.

and despite this atrocious defense in the first half of the season, look at the Charger's losses: 2 points, 1 point, 7 points, 9 points, 5 points.

Not exactly blowouts; our offense has been just that good. Any noticeable improvement will hopefully translate to some wins.

Mr. Stiller
10-29-2008, 01:51 AM
Very happy over here.

Ted Cottrell...honestly a lot of the patheticness of our defense CAN be put on him, despite our very real personnel issues this year.

We've got a lot of talent at the cornerback position, yet they've spent all year playing 10 to 15 yard cushions.

We run a 3-4 defense, yet don't blitz NEARLY enough and don't stunt.

The results are in the numbers. Last against the pass. Near the bottom in a ton of other categories. How could Rivera be worse? He knows he is being put in there to be more aggressive. He's not a moron.

and despite this atrocious defense in the first half of the season, look at the Charger's losses: 2 points, 1 point, 7 points, 9 points, 5 points.

Not exactly blowouts; our offense has been just that good. Any noticeable improvement will hopefully translate to some wins.

Even with the talent Pittsburgh has at CB/LB we rarely have blitzed this year and we always play our cushions off 8-12 yards.

Sounds like Cotrell was doing a decent job butchering the 3-4 Zone Blitz.

Paranoidmoonduck
10-29-2008, 03:56 AM
Cromartie's problem is that stupid interception goal he set.

His problem goes further than that. So many of Cromartie's interceptions last year were opportunities produced by a strong Charger pass rush. I don't think Cromartie's neccesarily regressed in coverage (he was never all that good last year either), but teams are now able to keep him in coverage longer and to throw the ball his way more. Overall, the Chargers are the most passed on team in the NFL, and a huge chunk of that has been against Cromartie.

What are the odds of the Chargers running some 4-3 later this year? Rivera would have to get creative, but I think the Chargers could pull it off.

awfullyquiet
10-29-2008, 09:35 AM
He's been in the system for a year and a half now, so hopefully he does know.

I wouldn't bank on it. But i don't think it'd be that bad.

It'll probably be a slightly limited scheme... I'm sure the biggest thing he'll bring is fundamentals to the squad who looks rather shaky as it is... But god, it's amazing on how offenses key off on the corners, who have looked so much better when they're getting pressure...

also. moving cromartie to FS should be in the gameplan, but only on a package by package basis.

SuperKevin
10-29-2008, 09:36 AM
People here in San Diego are excited for Rivera. The morning talk show has been fielding calls about it all morning

CC.SD
10-29-2008, 09:43 AM
People here in San Diego are excited for Rivera. The morning talk show has been fielding calls about it all morning

I'm not in SD right now, but talking to family and friends it's much more relief that Cottrell is gone than anything Rivera has done.

Just like it took 6 games to bench Matt Wilhelm when the fans saw he was worthless after game 1, the coaching staff has finally seen the obvious; Cottrell has been bad for this squad. Really bad. At least management is now making an attempt to salvage this season.

SuperKevin
10-29-2008, 09:51 AM
I'm not in SD right now, but talking to family and friends it's much more relief that Cottrell is gone than anything Rivera has done.

Just like it took 6 games to bench Matt Wilhelm when the fans saw he was worthless after game 1, the coaching staff has finally seen the obvious; Cottrell has been bad for this squad. Really bad. At least management is now making an attempt to salvage this season.

I don't understand how Wilhelm has stuck around so long. He's an average linebacker with below average athleticism in my book.

Iamcanadian
10-29-2008, 10:58 AM
I find it rather humorous that people blame Cottrell for all of San Diego's problems. San Diego's defense with Merriman led the NFL in turnovers last year which by my reconning wins a lot of games yet as soon as injuries take their toll somebody gets the blame and is canned.
Indy is seeing a half healthy Peyton this year and look at their record.
It is a true and tried method in the NFL that when a team isn't playing well, the GM will fire first, a coordinator, and if that doesn't work, he'll then fire the HC and if that doesn't work the owner will fire him. Of course this method is quickly used by teams whose organizations aren't solid enough to hold the course and the results rarely lead to any improvement. To satisfy the fan base, poor organization will pick a scapegoat, if that doesn't work then the firing gets more serious.

Menardo75
10-29-2008, 01:32 PM
I have always wondered why San Diego has never tried to add a stud MLB to go along with there graet ones on the outside. It seems like they are the only base 3-4 without one.

SuperKevin
10-29-2008, 02:12 PM
I have always wondered why San Diego has never tried to add a stud MLB to go along with there graet ones on the outside. It seems like they are the only base 3-4 without one.

Tim Dobbins is very underrated in my opinion. I always wondered why Anthony Waters and Brandon Siler don't get playing time. Are they even on the team still?

Menardo75
10-29-2008, 02:15 PM
Tim Dobbins is very underrated in my opinion. I always wondered why Anthony Waters and Brandon Siler don't get playing time. Are they even on the team still?

Yeah they are. I just look around the league at the 3-4 teams and Pittsburgh has James Farrior. San Francisco has Patrick Willis. Arizona Karlos Dansby. Just suprising with all the good draft classes they have had they have never brought in an elite or top flight ILB.

SuperKevin
10-29-2008, 02:15 PM
Yeah they are. I just look around the league at the 3-4 teams and Pittsburgh has James Farrior. San Francisco has Patrick Willis. Arizona Karlos Dansby. Just suprising with all the good draft classes they have had they have never brought in an elite or top flight ILB.

They used to have Donnie Edwards

Menardo75
10-29-2008, 02:19 PM
They used to have Donnie Edwards

Thats true they did. I don't know Seems like the only positions they have not spent a top pick on are ILB and safety. Besides Eric Weddle who is not bad.

Xenos
10-29-2008, 02:25 PM
Tim Dobbins is very underrated in my opinion. I always wondered why Anthony Waters and Brandon Siler don't get playing time. Are they even on the team still?
Brandon is only there on goal line stance. He doesn't have the athleticism for coverage assignments. Waters is actually learning how to be an ILB and OLB (due to Jyles Tucker being injured the last few weeks). He's slowly coming around and has played special teams mostly.

bantx
10-29-2008, 02:46 PM
Brandon is only there on goal line stance. He doesn't have the athleticism for coverage assignments. Waters is actually learning how to be an ILB and OLB (due to Jyles Tucker being injured the last few weeks). He's slowly coming around and has played special teams mostly.

Yeah waters is in the Tucker, Harris, Waters rotation at the outside linebacker

CC.SD
10-29-2008, 05:33 PM
Siler is also a special teams monster; check out the avi that Hitman whipped up for me.

I'll be forever puzzled as to how Wilhelm stuck around as long as he did. It's just another aspect of Cottrell's complete lack of competency.

Dobbins has actually played okay; he was the only defensive player who looked halfway competent against New Orleans, making a couple impressive stops.

Waters is a great specimen, I'm glad they've put him in the rotation at OLB, but Chris Chambers' return rendered him inactive against NO. Hopefully Rivera, the former ILB coach, will revisit him. He needs play time.