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bigbluedefense
11-03-2008, 12:19 PM
I don't get it. Why is everyone drooling? From the little Ive seen of him, he sucks.

I do admit i haven't seen much. But he doesn't sound that great to me.

georgiafan
11-03-2008, 12:24 PM
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22425

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26322

bigbluedefense
11-03-2008, 12:24 PM
touche good sir. touche.

bored of education
11-03-2008, 01:35 PM
he can't shed a block worth his life

Babylon
11-03-2008, 01:40 PM
he can't shed a block worth his life

Is that directed at the Detroit Lions front office?

DoWnThEfiElD
11-03-2008, 01:57 PM
he can't shed a block worth his life

Also I think he only runs a 4.5

Thunder&Lightning
11-03-2008, 02:08 PM
All the hype is because he has a cannon for an arm.

FuzzyGopher
11-03-2008, 03:58 PM
All the hype is because he has a cannon for an arm.

And good mechanics, size, footwork, and leadership.

Turtlepower
11-03-2008, 04:11 PM
I don't get it. Why is everyone drooling? From the little Ive seen of him, he sucks.

I do admit i haven't seen much. But he doesn't sound that great to me.

I saw Stafford in person during the ASU vs. Georgia game and I really don't think I've liked a QB in the draft this much since Leinart (too bad he has a worse work ethic than Kellen Winslow). BBD, a major problem with Stafford this year is the horrible line that he has had. He had 1 quality returning starter for the o-line who went out for the season in training camp. He has had very little time to throw in the pocket and only has 1 adequate receiver in AJ Green. I think Stafford has some of the same problems as Matt Ryan did where Ryan just wasn't able to really perform to the best of his ability because of some of the players around him. In fact, I would say that Ryan had a much better o-line than what Stafford has right now. I'm not a huge fan of QBs going pro early, but that is usually due to lack of starting time, which Stafford has more than enough of.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-03-2008, 04:12 PM
do you not remember this guy?

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/football/ncaa/01/03/quinn.russell/t1_russell.jpg

The NFL will always be infatuated with the 6'5+ QB with the rocket arm, regardless of his flaws

619
11-03-2008, 04:14 PM
do you not remember this guy?

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/football/ncaa/01/03/quinn.russell/t1_russell.jpg

The NFL will always be infatuated with the 6'5+ QB with the rocket arm, regardless of his flaws

Except Stafford isn't 6'5 ... :)

CashmoneyDrew
11-03-2008, 04:14 PM
Too bad Stafford's gonna measure in under 6'3, not 6'5.

djp
11-03-2008, 04:18 PM
IMO Stafford is a much better prospect than Russell. More polished mechanics, better intangibles... they both still love their arm a little too much though.

Turtlepower
11-03-2008, 04:18 PM
JaMarcus Russel - Matt Stafford comparison is almost as bad as this:

another stinker. ive figured it out. [Knowshon Moreno is] a mike hart clone. i wonder if they ever got rid of the toss play, could he get any yards?

619
11-03-2008, 04:20 PM
JaMarcus Russel - Matt Stafford comparison is almost as bad as this:

I've seen Stafford - Cutler. Still not sure about that one.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-03-2008, 04:24 PM
I thought Stafford was 6'4ish

regardless I wasnt drawing a direct comparison with Russell, that was more of a strawman

Turtlepower
11-03-2008, 04:26 PM
Even though it sounds a bit blasphemous, I really do like the Matt Stafford - John Elway comparison. They are the same kind of QB with the same strong arm and very similar mechanics.

619
11-03-2008, 04:27 PM
Even though it sounds a bit blasphemous, I really do like the Matt Stafford - John Elway comparison. They are the same kind of QB with the same strong arm and very similar mechanics.

I wouldn't jump to using HOF QBs now. :)

Cutler sounds right for now ...

Turtlepower
11-03-2008, 04:30 PM
I wouldn't jump to using HOF QBs now. :)

Cutler sounds right for now ...

"I'll see you at his Hall of Fame induction."

=P

SchizophrenicBatman
11-03-2008, 04:30 PM
I can actually buy Elway. No one remembers this but Elway's start of his career wasn't exactly the prettiest thing in the world. Granted it was in a different era but I think Stafford, if he pans out, is going to flounder in a similar fashion for a year or two then emerge. He doesn't have the same level of mobility as Elway though

Turtlepower
11-03-2008, 04:33 PM
I can actually buy Elway. No one remembers this but Elway's start of his career wasn't exactly the prettiest thing in the world. Granted it was in a different era but I think Stafford, if he pans out, is going to flounder in a similar fashion for a year or two then emerge. He doesn't have the same level of mobility as Elway though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTB2ZYvHVcE&feature=related in high school.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-03-2008, 04:38 PM
Not sure what thats supposed to mean to me. Further verfiy the Elway comp? Counter the claim against Stafford's mobility (which I didn't do...I just said he's not Elway level. For instance, Tony Romo is pretty mobile but he's no Vick)?

If anything that pass reminds me of Russell highlights from college, though like I said, that wasn't an actual comparison for Stafford. Just a strawman that NFL scouts will fall in love with a big arm and gloss over the flaws

Turtlepower
11-03-2008, 04:40 PM
Not sure what thats supposed to mean to me. Further verfiy the Elway comp? Counter the claim against Stafford's mobility (which I didn't do...I just said he's not Elway level. For instance, Tony Romo is pretty mobile but he's no Vick)?

If anything that pass reminds me of Russell highlights from college, though like I said, that wasn't an actual comparison for Stafford. Just a strawman that NFL scouts will fall in love with a big arm and gloss over the flaws

I understand, I just feel that because he plays in a pro-style offense, he has begun to be labeled as little mobility, while he does have some (about as much as Elway did). If I was to compare him to any QB in the past decade, I think that 619 has one of the closer comparisons with Jay Cutler.

Halsey
11-03-2008, 04:47 PM
Matt Ryan was the player most often called things like "overrated" and "overhyped" on this draft board last year. People always nitpick and look for reasons not to like QB's more than other positions. Stafford didn't look great vs Florida because they are really good and dominated UGA's line. Stafford was getting hit all day and then was forced to play from behind. When your team is behind, the defense knows you have to pass.

Turtlepower
11-03-2008, 04:50 PM
Matt Ryan was the player most often called things like "overrated" and "overhyped" on this draft board last year. People always nitpick and look for reasons not to like QB's more than other positions. Stafford didn't look great vs Florida because they are really good and dominated UGA's line. Stafford was getting hit all day and then was forced to play from behind. When your team is behind, the defense knows you have to pass.

If you think Matt Ryan had it bad, look at some of the older posts regarding Brady Quinn. Now those got ugly.

Babylon
11-03-2008, 04:53 PM
I wouldn't jump to using HOF QBs now. :)

Cutler sounds right for now ...


I usually take comparisons to mean at a similar stage. Elway was a strong arm guy with great mobility out of Stanford, what most people forget is he never took his team to a bowl and was 20-23 as a starter. These guys get drafted in the end on potential. I think what really is going to put Stafford over the top is the combine. When guys like him, Russell and Cutler stand there and throw the ball 70 yards scouts start getting excited.

illmatic74
11-03-2008, 04:55 PM
The fact that both of them come fro prostyle offenses gives them an advantage over other college QBS. They have more experience in dropbacks, reading coverage etc.

ThePudge
11-03-2008, 04:57 PM
Stafford has very similar strengths to Jay Cutler, who's name I believe we'll hear more than once in searching for an accurate comparison for this draft's "top" signal-caller. He's built very well, has an excellent arm, and is capable of fitting a tough pass in. He can truly make any throw and has that pocket presence you like to see. Stafford is far from a finished product, though Cutler wasn't either when he came out, but he has shown significant mental growth over the years. He's experienced as a starter and knows how to handle success.

I'm not sure he's earned it like Matt Ryan did a year ago though, and I rank him below Ryan at this point. I loved Matt Ryan, I saw that X-Factor in him, that desire to win, the respect from his teammates, the will-power to take hits, throw interceptions and bounce back with the same mentality. Stafford has to prove that he can go out there, make mistakes, and bring his team back.

I won't blame the Florida game on Stafford. I watched it and for the most part, he played well and his wide receivers/offensive line didn't help him out enough. Still, there comes a time where you have to look at him and say "What has he done?" This is a very talented Georgia team. They are talented enough to beat Alabama, to beat Florida. Giving up a combined 90 points to the two teams certainly hurts, but Stafford has to take charge and start getting big wins. To this day, I'm not sure if he has that signature win or play. You may look to the 2007 Florida-Georgia game, but I'd like to see it this year.

Now, I'll say again: Matt Stafford has shown improvement mentally in his decision-making and leadership. He has the potential to be one of the league's elite QB's. Still, to whoever's team drafts Stafford, understand he is a work in progress. Sam Bradford gives you more in terms of understanding the mental part of the game, but Stafford has that Cutler-esque upside that is so coveted in the NFL and on these boards.

Stafford is every bit the prospect Jay Cutler was, but keep in mind he has nearly the same flaws. Work in progress. In this draft though, he is worth a Top 5 selection for a team in need of a QB (Detroit, Kansas City)

P-L
11-03-2008, 04:59 PM
Just a strawman that NFL scouts will fall in love with a big arm and gloss over the flaws
Or a guy whose flaws are being accentuated by draftniks because he's been on top for so long.

bigbluedefense
11-03-2008, 05:02 PM
i need to sit down one day and watch a game and really break him down. i barely get to see any college football, thats the problem. i can't evaluate talent the way i want to.

P-L
11-03-2008, 05:06 PM
This is why people love Stafford so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC8X_hI3ypw

bored of education
11-03-2008, 05:11 PM
This is why people love Stafford so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC8X_hI3ypw

touch, anticpation etc. solid throw. skip the nfl and go straight to canton!

ThEvIcTR
11-03-2008, 05:37 PM
Straight To Canton! Where They Will Laugh At Him And Never Let Him In!

Turtlepower
11-03-2008, 05:39 PM
Straight To Canton! Where They Will Laugh At Him And Never Let Him In!

Due to jealousy!

giantsfan
11-03-2008, 05:55 PM
Due to jealousy!

And fear of retribution from JordyZZZZZZZ for making him actually play in the NFL.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-03-2008, 06:15 PM
Even though it sounds a bit blasphemous, I really do like the Matt Stafford - John Elway comparison. They are the same kind of QB with the same strong arm and very similar mechanics.

Stafford is a huge Elway fan, and from the #7 to the way he drops back, you can see how he's modeled himself after Elway. It doesn't mean he'll be successful, but the comparison is unavoidable thanks to the way Stafford has worked his game.

I like Stafford. Do I like him to the tune of the 30+ million dollars up front? That's hard to take, but some team will undoubtedly throw the cash up for him come draft day. He's easily the best NFL quarterback prospect in my book.

draftguru151
11-03-2008, 06:21 PM
Even though it sounds a bit blasphemous, I really do like the Matt Stafford - John Elway comparison. They are the same kind of QB with the same strong arm and very similar mechanics.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f92/brad_663/MattStaffordcopy1.png

I really don't feel like going to in depth with this, but it amazes me how all people think he is is a big arm. It's not like he just throws the ball 100 mph, at times he can make throws that no one else in college can make (with the exception of Freeman) and throws that a majority of pro QBs can't make. He doesn't make a lot of bad decisions, he just forces passes because 1. he has the arm to do so and 2. he has too because his receivers aren't that good. Green is a huge upgrade from the past but he is still a freshman. Massaquoi has stepped up but still isn't that great of a receiver. He doesn't have much else besides them either as far as receiving options.

His supporting cast is better than what a Cutler or Matt Ryan had but they still aren't that great, so the numbers aren't going to be there all the time. Stafford's issue right now is consistency on his throws, his decision making has been has been much better than last year though he still forces it a bit too much. He has an amazing arm, good mobility/pocket presence, good mechanics, and a good throwing motion. He makes a ton of pre snap adjustments while most other QBs in college aren't even given the option to do so. Stats wise he isn't going to put up ridiculous numbers in college, but watching him you can see there isn't another QB in college on his level (besides Freeman).

Just another tid bit, I mentioned Freeman in there twice, and while he is a guy who gets overhyped by a couple posters, he has all the tools of Stafford but is taller and more mobile. He is just a ton more inconsistent throwing the ball accuracy wise as well as mentally. If Freeman comes out this year he will likely fail in the NFL (I'd prefer Stafford, as well as most of the other QBs to stay, Bradford is probably the only one I would trust right now in the pros, and Tebow could leave as well, he's not a starting QB whether he stays another year or not) but if he comes back and takes a Russell like step up his senior year he could be elite.

Ozzy
11-03-2008, 06:30 PM
I really don't feel like going to in depth with this, but it amazes me how all people think he is is a big arm. It's not like he just throws the ball 100 mph, at times he can make throws that no one else in college can make (with the exception of Freeman) and throws that a majority of pro QBs can't make. He doesn't make a lot of bad decisions, he just forces passes because 1. he has the arm to do so and 2. he has too because his receivers aren't that good. Green is a huge upgrade from the past but he is still a freshman. Massaquoi has stepped up but still isn't that great of a receiver. He doesn't have much else besides them either as far as receiving options.

His supporting cast is better than what a Cutler or Matt Ryan had but they still aren't that great, so the numbers aren't going to be there all the time. Stafford's issue right now is consistency on his throws, his decision making has been has been much better than last year though he still forces it a bit too much. He has an amazing arm, good mobility/pocket presence, good mechanics, and a good throwing motion. He makes a ton of pre snap adjustments while most other QBs in college aren't even given the option to do so. Stats wise he isn't going to put up ridiculous numbers in college, but watching him you can see there isn't another QB in college on his level (besides Freeman).

Just another tid bit, I mentioned Freeman in there twice, and while he is a guy who gets overhyped by a couple posters, he has all the tools of Stafford but is taller and more mobile. He is just a ton more inconsistent throwing the ball accuracy wise as well as mentally. If Freeman comes out this year he will likely fail in the NFL (I'd prefer Stafford, as well as most of the other QBs to stay, Bradford is probably the only one I would trust right now in the pros, and Tebow could leave as well, he's not a starting QB whether he stays another year or not) but if he comes back and takes a Russell like step up his senior year he could be elite.Well said, there are just not many QB prospects like him in college right now. Stafford is completely worth all of this hype, and if he can wow you with a throw while watching on television, just think of what it seems like in person. Stafford and Bradford should not even be mentioned in the same sentence I feel. Their throwing arms are almost not even comparable. Yet that is the main argument people have, Bradford or Stafford.

MidwayMonster31
11-03-2008, 06:34 PM
If you check the numbers, Elway's career was really not as spectacular as it seemed. He came through with the wins at the right time. Stafford has the stuff and mechanics to be an elite quarterback. The biggest question with him is consistency.
Since he will probably end up in Detroit or Kansas City, he will have to work with marginal talent for some time. He will have to learn the same things that every other quarterback has since going from college to the pros.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
11-03-2008, 06:51 PM
Matt Stafford - Eli Manning?

Both with strong arms but inconsistent. One day they will make you jump for joy and another make you cringe at the sight.

illmatic74
11-03-2008, 07:05 PM
Since QB like Stafford, Freeman, Clausen, Sanchez, etc are not going to put up the eye popping numbers but you get to see them make NFL dropbacks, NFL reads and make NFL throws which will put hem ahead of the curve of all those spread guys.

Vox Populi
11-03-2008, 07:20 PM
Its all about the arm and mechanics with him. Some of his throws are just ridiculously beautiful that even me, someone who watches football just for fun and the love of the game rather than as an evaluator, I get a little excited when I see some of his throws and think about what more pro coaching could make him. I'd say hes a better prospect than anyone since Eli Manning and I rank the quarterback prospects since '03 when I started following the draft as Manning, Palmer, Stafford, Roethlisberger, Ryan.

edit. that said his position isn't finalized so don't brand me yet lol. The others are stuck in that order with Stafford subject to change/move.

BuddyCHRIST
11-03-2008, 08:36 PM
Every time I see him he just screams elite NFL QB to me, obviously his arm is elite but his accuracy is top notch and the way he stands in the pocket and throws on the move just all looks like a legit prospect. His O-line is terrible this year and while AJ Green is a freak and Massaqoui is talented, they are inconsistent and can drop the easy ones. Early in that UF game, Stafford was making lots of great plays, and was having some dropped passes or bad luck against him. Like that almost pick 6 he threw where the corner grabbed the WR's waist and slung shot himself to pick the ball off (pass interference). Bottom line though is, there hasn't been any QB's in the past few years who've just looked so much like an NFL QB to me when watching him play.

d34ng3l021
11-03-2008, 08:51 PM
When evaluating a QB, you cannot just go by statistics and level of competition. You can get away with that for other positions, but for QBs, you have to actually watch them play. You have to see how they act in the pocket. How do they evade pressure? How are their throws on the run? Accuracy and decision making? Pre-snap adjustments?

You really cant judge a QB by his statistics at all.

619
11-03-2008, 08:52 PM
When evaluating a QB, you cannot just go by statistics and level of competition. You can get away with that for other positions, but for QBs, you have to actually watch them play. You have to see how they act in the pocket. How do they evade pressure? How are their throws on the run? Accuracy and decision making? Pre-snap adjustments?

You really cant judge a QB by his statistics at all.

Absolutely. The QB in your sig is a perfect example. :)

d34ng3l021
11-03-2008, 08:53 PM
Absolutely. The QB in your sig is a perfect example. :)

You betcha. 19 ints what?

ElectricEye
11-03-2008, 08:54 PM
Bleh. That's crap, the Ryan stuff. I really don't feel like getting into it, but it is.

619
11-03-2008, 09:01 PM
You betcha. 19 ints what?

I don't want to get into it too much but your previous post reminded me of him so much. There were many ill-informed draftniks out there last year who I don't believe really got a chance to sit back and watch Ryan week after week and would evaluate him almost purely from a numbers standpoint. Sometimes it's the intangibles and not always the statistics that truly tell the tale of an elite QB.

ElectricEye
11-03-2008, 09:02 PM
Those 19 interceptions mostly had to do with the fact that he was almost literally the only guy worth a damn on his team and had defenses keying in on the pass on every single play. Ryan HUSTLED his way to 31 touchdown passes that year. He also kinda sort took his team far and beyond the level they realistically should have been capable of playing.

Iamcanadian
11-03-2008, 09:15 PM
I'm not completely sold on Stafford, yes he has the big arm and nice mechanics but I question his leadership and mental toughness. I don't like to hear excuses for QB's. Leaders modivate their players to play better especially in big games and Stafford did zilch against Alabama and Florida.
Ryan was mentally tough and played well in top games. I don't see that yet from Stafford.
Don't get me wrong I think he could still develop if he returns for his senior year otherwise I seriously question whether or not he goes top 10. I'll be quite surprised if some pro team will shell out 35 million in guaranteed money after the problems of Alex Smith and Russell.
I think the NFL Advisory Committee will give him at best a mid 1st round grade and he'll return to school so he can move into the top top 5 next season where the big money is, if he can continue to develop.
In fact I think a lot of people are going to be shocked at how few of the junior QB's declare if any. None of them will see the top 10 unless they return for their senior year and continue to develop.

illmatic74
11-03-2008, 09:15 PM
Those 19 interceptions mostly had to do with the fact that he was almost literally the only guy worth a damn on his team and had defenses keying in on the pass on every single play. Ryan HUSTLED his way to 31 touchdown passes that year. He also kinda sort took his team far and beyond the level they realistically should have been capable of playing.Also he through the ball 654 times last year.

ElectricEye
11-03-2008, 09:22 PM
...because their weren't any other options. He also completed almost 60% of those passes. At all. No presence in the running game at all. He had some real, real great games as well. You can argue that he was allowed to do that, but he still did it.

Vox Populi
11-03-2008, 09:23 PM
I'm not completely sold on Stafford, yes he has the big arm and nice mechanics but I question his leadership and mental toughness. I don't like to hear excuses for QB's. Leaders modivate their players to play better especially in big games and Stafford did zilch against Alabama and Florida.
Ryan was mentally tough and played well in top games. I don't see that yet from Stafford.
Don't get me wrong I think he could still develop if he returns for his senior year otherwise I seriously question whether or not he goes top 10. I'll be quite surprised if some pro team will shell out 35 million in guaranteed money after the problems of Alex Smith and Russell.
I think the NFL Advisory Committee will give him at best a mid 1st round grade and he'll return to school so he can move into the top top 5 next season where the big money is, if he can continue to develop.
In fact I think a lot of people are going to be shocked at how few of the junior QB's declare if any. None of them will see the top 10 unless they return for their senior year and continue to develop.

Next years QB class would be insane :|

diabsoule
11-03-2008, 09:25 PM
I love the potential that Stafford has shown. He screams franchise QB to me. He has a ton of SEC experience, has a great arm, extremely high intangibles, is a leader on the field, can make the difficult throw, and shows a lot of poise in the pocket. Not to mention he has very good mechanics.

I hated JaMarcus Russell as a prospect. No leadership skills, too reliant on arm strength, little pocket awareness, stares down receivers, terrible mechanics, etc... Brady Quinn will end up being the better QB between the two.

katnip
11-03-2008, 09:28 PM
Even though all I see them do is run. I like John Parker Wilson. The Jets should get him. Wasn't "Broadway" Joe a Alabama kid? Not saying. Just... I think he's a cool thinker.

619
11-03-2008, 09:29 PM
I hated JaMarcus Russell as a prospect. No leadership skills, too reliant on arm strength, little pocket awareness, stares down receivers, etc... Brady Quinn will end up being the better QB between the two.

Thanks. I'm starting to really see this now !

katnip
11-03-2008, 09:31 PM
Is it me... Or does Stafford outshine prospect wise. Every Big 12 QB?

San Diego Chicken
11-04-2008, 05:07 AM
My problem with Stafford is that he isn't a quick desision maker and doesn't have a quick snap release. His QB insticts aren't that great. He's the best prospect out there because of his athleticism most likely, but I don't think he's NFL ready for another few years. With Stafford's tools & supporting cast he should be taking over games like the Tebow's, Daniel's, McCoy's of the world do, but he just doesn't.

georgiafan
11-04-2008, 07:22 AM
The reason for lack of quick decisions has a lot to do with the WR getting no sepration from DB. Watching a game in person just confirmed that even more for me.

He has improved his comp. % to 61, his passing yards which is projected to be 3,000 and improved his QB rating to 140. So he is still improving and thats not even counting all the TD's the supporting cast has cost him.

Also in the 3 big games this year the defense has gave up 128 points which is over 40 per game. That puts a lot of pressure on a QB knowing he has to score every time he has the ball. You can tell the coaching staff has no faith in the defense by the onside kick agianst UF.

someone should combine all these stafford threads.

Habibi
11-04-2008, 07:12 PM
Also he through the ball 654 times last year.

Matt Ryan still threw an INT every 34 attempts his senior season. Matthew Stafford is, on pace, to throw an INT every 32 attempts.

jayceheathman
11-04-2008, 08:22 PM
I havent seen much that I like from Stafford lately. Maybe its because his OL is playing horrible but right now if I had to choose, I would take Tebow over Stafford. Tebow has been playing at a much higher level ever since he promised everyone he would after their one loss.

Geo
11-04-2008, 09:09 PM
I think Stafford is best suited for a team that plays outdoors, given his arm strength but not-so-great accuracy.

Kansas City is the ideal fit imo, he'll have weapons to work with there: Dwayne Bowe of course, but also Mark Bradley and Will Franklin at WR; Cottam and some young RBs, plus likely LJ. Tony G too for a season or two perhaps. They're building up their OL.

Detroit might be better off with Bradford, I wonder.

D-Unit
11-04-2008, 09:31 PM
Another Matt Stafford thread. Glad this isn't about how Godly he is...

Been saying he was overrated despite his many many lovers.

But BBD, the reason why there is so much hype for him is because he has qualities that are very easy to pick out and say, "That's what I want in a QB". Namely, size and arm strength and playing against good competition. Once people see that, then they start to build illusions of how good he is when he's really not. One good pass here and there gets overly hyped up. The bad passes/decision get quickly forgotten. Comes with the territory.

jayceheathman
11-04-2008, 09:33 PM
Another Matt Stafford thread. Glad this isn't about how Godly he is...

Been saying he was overrated despite his many many lovers.

But BBD, the reason why there is so much hype for him is because he has qualities that are very easy to pick out and say, "That's what I want in a QB". Namely, size and arm strength and playing against good competition. Once people see that, then they start to build illusions of how good he is when he's really not. One good pass here and there gets overly hyped up. The bad passes/decision get quickly forgotten. Comes with the territory.

Hey D-Unit, ready for Saturday? Its coming!

ElectricEye
11-04-2008, 09:35 PM
Another Matt Stafford thread. Glad this isn't about how Godly he is...

Been saying he was overrated despite his many many lovers.

But BBD, the reason why there is so much hype for him is because he has qualities that are very easy to pick out and say, "That's what I want in a QB". Namely, size and arm strength and playing against good competition. Once people see that, then they start to build illusions of how good he is when he's really not. One good pass here and there gets overly hyped up. The bad passes/decision get quickly forgotten. Comes with the territory.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly, what I've been trying to get at, but said more concisely.

D-Unit
11-04-2008, 09:48 PM
Hey D-Unit, ready for Saturday? Its coming!
This is your best shot. If you don't win Saturday... forget ever beating us. ;)

Should be a good one. I will order it on PPV.

keylime_5
11-04-2008, 09:50 PM
everyone loves those big 12 QBs in their gimmicky spread offenses against teams with no defense. stafford is in a more conventional offense that doesn't spread defenses out and plays tough defenses every week. I'll take Stafford's arm and his tools over Bradford's, Tebow's, Daniel's, McCoy's, and Harrell's any day of the week, especially Sunday. He's gonna be really good one day in the NFL. He has improved from every season he's played so far, and that is a very good sign for a guy with his skills.

ElectricEye
11-04-2008, 09:56 PM
everyone loves those big 12 QBs in their gimmicky spread offenses against teams with no defense. stafford is in a more conventional offense that doesn't spread defenses out and plays tough defenses every week. I'll take Stafford's arm and his tools over Bradford's, Tebow's, Daniel's, McCoy's, and Harrell's any day of the week, especially Sunday. He's gonna be really good one day in the NFL. He has improved from every season he's played so far, and that is a very good sign for a guy with his skills.

I would really question if he's improved or not. He's been consistently inconsistent his entire career. He's been asked to do a bit more, but I haven't really seen any major step up in his game this year. The supporting cast is a bit better, but still, same type of stuff going on. Same mistakes, same excuses.

georgiafan
11-05-2008, 07:28 AM
His accuracy and decison making are much better this year and he is also got better at changing the play before the snap.

Babylon
11-05-2008, 11:13 AM
His accuracy and decison making are much better this year and he is also got better at changing the play before the snap.

55% to 60% accuracy improvement and i will add with a lesser O-line than last year in my opinion.

georgiafan
11-05-2008, 11:58 AM
55% to 60% accuracy improvement and i will add with a lesser O-line than last year in my opinion.

He needs to work on his accuracy on the deep ball, but the short and medium passes he is fastly improved from last year. He has to be accurate when throwing the medium and short passes as the DB are usually right on the WR's back due to no separtion. Most QB's get easy catches from the TE, but UGA's have been non existent this year.

Mr. Offseason
11-06-2008, 11:44 AM
Another Matt Stafford thread. Glad this isn't about how Godly he is...

Been saying he was overrated despite his many many lovers.

But BBD, the reason why there is so much hype for him is because he has qualities that are very easy to pick out and say, "That's what I want in a QB". Namely, size and arm strength and playing against good competition. Once people see that, then they start to build illusions of how good he is when he's really not. One good pass here and there gets overly hyped up. The bad passes/decision get quickly forgotten. Comes with the territory.

great post. i agree 100%. and those attributes will have him in the top 5 of the draft too.

Halsey
11-06-2008, 01:08 PM
Why do so many people think Stafford has nothing but physical tools? It's like the exact opposite of people trying to say Matt Ryan had great intangibles but no arm. Nonsense. Stafford graduated high school early, eenrolled at UGA early, is on track to graduate college early, has never had a run-in with the law, has never had any injuries to speak of, has the intelligence to audible heavily, etc, etc. There's a reason Archie Manning called him the top pro style QB in college football. I'll take Archie's opinion over message board haters who just look at box scores.

Mr. Offseason
11-06-2008, 01:16 PM
Why do so many people think Stafford has nothing but physical tools? It's like the exact opposite of people trying to say Matt Ryan had great intangibles but no arm. Nonsense. Stafford graduated high school early, eenrolled at UGA early, is on track to graduate college early, has never had a run-in with the law, has never had any injuries to speak of, has the intelligence to audible heavily, etc, etc. There's a reason Archie Manning called him the top pro style QB in college football. I'll take Archie's opinion over message board haters who just look at box scores.

i hope that wasnt directed at me (i dont think it was) but i do think that stafford has pretty good intanigbles, but my problem with him is him forcing throws and making bad decisions fairly regularly. ryan did the same thing but he was under substantially more pressure to win the game for his team, stafford doesnt do that and has never really had to do that. ryan often threw the balll 30+ times and had over 300 yards last year just to give his team a chance at winning. stafford had his first 300 yard game THIS year. i am not convinced he is one of the rare players at the QB position (of which matt ryan is one) that makes everyone around him better. he is not that kind of leader and i dont think he ever will be. as some people have said matt ryan has "it". i dont know to describe it other than that, but i dont think stafford has "it" like ryan, favre or elway do/did. thats why i hate the comparisons to any of those 3 so much. they made everyone around them better and stafford certainly does not do that.

georgiafan
11-06-2008, 01:21 PM
How did Elway make the players around him better when his team finished below a .500 record in college?

Mr. Offseason
11-06-2008, 01:51 PM
How did Elway make the players around him better when his team finished below a .500 record in college?

the same criticism could have been applied to jay cutler when he played at vanderbilt.

the point was that he had that elite kind of intangible that he, favre and ryan all share and thus far in their careers they have made players around them better in the NFL. elway did it, favre did and is still doing it and ryan is doing it. i dont know much about elways college career, but i am not the one comparing stafford to him and favre, 2 of the best qbs ever, and matt ryan, who is having one of the best rookie seasons for a qb in recent memory (as far as i know at least).

matt ryan displayed this intangible in college despite his team being mediocre as a junior and they ended up, what... 9-3 last year? he carried his team and won games for them, stafford absolutely does not do that. that was my point. elway and favre were only mentioned because kiper, mcshay and other proponents of stafford have likened him to them.

Babylon
11-06-2008, 02:22 PM
the same criticism could have been applied to jay cutler when he played at vanderbilt.

the point was that he had that elite kind of intangible that he, favre and ryan all share and thus far in their careers they have made players around them better in the NFL. elway did it, favre did and is still doing it and ryan is doing it. i dont know much about elways college career, but i am not the one comparing stafford to him and favre, 2 of the best qbs ever, and matt ryan, who is having one of the best rookie seasons for a qb in recent memory (as far as i know at least).

matt ryan displayed this intangible in college despite his team being mediocre as a junior and they ended up, what... 9-3 last year? he carried his team and won games for them, stafford absolutely does not do that. that was my point. elway and favre were only mentioned because kiper, mcshay and other proponents of stafford have likened him to them.


So i guess when Stafford is 25-5 in the SEC the 25 wins come when they run the ball and the 5 losses come when Stafford screws up. The thing is guys that were mentioned like Elway, Favre and Cutler all showed the same tendencies as young players and that is to trust your ability too much. I actually agree Stafford needs to get a little more cerebral in his game but he is clearly a great talent. Where he is really going to shine is the combine where scouts and GMs can sit there and just watch him throw the ball, that in itself will allow his stock to soar.

Mr. Offseason
11-06-2008, 02:41 PM
So i guess when Stafford is 25-5 in the SEC the 25 wins come when they run the ball and the 5 losses come when Stafford screws up. The thing is guys that were mentioned like Elway, Favre and Cutler all showed the same tendencies as young players and that is to trust your ability too much. I actually agree Stafford needs to get a little more cerebral in his game but he is clearly a great talent. Where he is really going to shine is the combine where scouts and GMs can sit there and just watch him throw the ball, that in itself will allow his stock to soar.

when did i ever say anything about stafford being carried by the team? i imagine you have seen a lot of him so you should know that he does make bad decisions and throws with a somewhat alarming regularity for a team that has so much talent around him. he has been good and has played well in the SEC and im not trying to knock what he has done in college. he is now completely 60% of his passes, which he didnt do in the first 2 years of his career. i agree he is a great talent, his arm strength is nothing short of amazing, but that does not put him in the same class as favre, elway or ryan as far as NFL success or potential NFL success.

believe me, i think he is going top 5 if he declares this year. you will never hear me say otherwise. with detroit and KC in the top 5... no way does he slide past that, even if bradford comes out and goes #1.

my point is that im not sure he is destined for NFL success that may be insinuated from such a lofty draft status and such high praise from his supporters. great size, arm strength and potential does not equate to NFL success, there are many examples of this. i am not convinced that he is a great or even good leader. for example, he looked like he quit and gave up in the florida game, especially on the sidelines. he made mistakes in that game and had mental lapses that led to interceptions. i realize he was playing from behind, but that doesnt excuse the mistakes he made. they were still errors against a good defense that the team couldnt really afford. he looked dejected on the sideline and just seemed to have given up.

now take another example, chase daniel (i know it sounds weird but stay with me here). a week or two before he was down early against texas and as the game went along he too made mental lapses and seemed to quit a bit. instead of his mistakes being downplayed like the ones stafford made he was absolutely hammered for playing poorly, making mistakes and throws that he wouldnt normally make, seeming to give up a bit, etc. similar things to what i think happened to stafford against florida. he was rattled and did not play well enough to keep his team in the game, and in fact played his team right out of the game JUST like stafford did against florida. but for some reason stafford is almost excused for this while daniel was hammered for his downfalls. i know stafford projects much better to the NFL, but their mistakes were similar and the reactions to them couldnt be more different.

so, long story short i question staffords leadership ability. i dont think he plays at a high level consistently, i dont think he is the special talent (combination of physical attributes and elite intangibles) that can put a team on his back and lead them to victory or make everyone else around him better. these guys are rare though, but he is being compared to players who i think did that, and i disagree with those comparisons whole-heartedly.

that is my point. im not saying stafford is going to get to the NFL and throw 20 straight interceptions and get cut after 2 games and be labeled as the biggest bust in NFL history. i just have my doubts as to how much success he will have in the NFL given some of the flaws in his game. i think hes a top 5 pick, his physical attributes will take care of that. i just dont know if he has the intangibles and the high football IQ to be great QB in the NFL, and top 5 picks arent selected to be just good, they are expected to be great. so, that is where my doubts come from about matt stafford. i hope you can see my point.

Menardo75
11-06-2008, 02:53 PM
Matt does have all the talent to be a top flight QB yes. Georgia does have all the skill plays any QB would need to be successful. He is playing behind a very young and inexperienced o-line however, and that has really held him back. We all saw what happened to Trent Edwards in that situation. The bottom line is if he goes out this year or next year. Once he goes to the combine the scouts will forget all about the gametape and watch him throw. The combine will solidify himself a top five pick no matter what he does.

yourfavestoner
11-06-2008, 03:12 PM
He reminds me of this guy. Except without a good college career. Everybody fawns over the physical tools, but too often his team is carrying him to the finish line instead of the other way around. He has been a glorified game manager his entire college career.
http://warroomreport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ryanleaf.jpg

Babylon
11-06-2008, 03:27 PM
when did i ever say anything about stafford being carried by the team? i imagine you have seen a lot of him so you should know that he does make bad decisions and throws with a somewhat alarming regularity for a team that has so much talent around him. he has been good and has played well in the SEC and im not trying to knock what he has done in college. he is now completely 60% of his passes, which he didnt do in the first 2 years of his career. i agree he is a great talent, his arm strength is nothing short of amazing, but that does not put him in the same class as favre, elway or ryan as far as NFL success or potential NFL success.

believe me, i think he is going top 5 if he declares this year. you will never hear me say otherwise. with detroit and KC in the top 5... no way does he slide past that, even if bradford comes out and goes #1.

my point is that im not sure he is destined for NFL success that may be insinuated from such a lofty draft status and such high praise from his supporters. great size, arm strength and potential does not equate to NFL success, there are many examples of this. i am not convinced that he is a great or even good leader. for example, he looked like he quit and gave up in the florida game, especially on the sidelines. he made mistakes in that game and had mental lapses that led to interceptions. i realize he was playing from behind, but that doesnt excuse the mistakes he made. they were still errors against a good defense that the team couldnt really afford. he looked dejected on the sideline and just seemed to have given up.

now take another example, chase daniel (i know it sounds weird but stay with me here). a week or two before he was down early against texas and as the game went along he too made mental lapses and seemed to quit a bit. instead of his mistakes being downplayed like the ones stafford made he was absolutely hammered for playing poorly, making mistakes and throws that he wouldnt normally make, seeming to give up a bit, etc. similar things to what i think happened to stafford against florida. he was rattled and did not play well enough to keep his team in the game, and in fact played his team right out of the game JUST like stafford did against florida. but for some reason stafford is almost excused for this while daniel was hammered for his downfalls. i know stafford projects much better to the NFL, but their mistakes were similar and the reactions to them couldnt be more different.

so, long story short i question staffords leadership ability. i dont think he plays at a high level consistently, i dont think he is the special talent (combination of physical attributes and elite intangibles) that can put a team on his back and lead them to victory or make everyone else around him better. these guys are rare though, but he is being compared to players who i think did that, and i disagree with those comparisons whole-heartedly.

that is my point. im not saying stafford is going to get to the NFL and throw 20 straight interceptions and get cut after 2 games and be labeled as the biggest bust in NFL history. i just have my doubts as to how much success he will have in the NFL given some of the flaws in his game. i think hes a top 5 pick, his physical attributes will take care of that. i just dont know if he has the intangibles and the high football IQ to be great QB in the NFL, and top 5 picks arent selected to be just good, they are expected to be great. so, that is where my doubts come from about matt stafford. i hope you can see my point.

Your responses can be pretty long winded but i do agree with a lot of what you say and disagree with others, first off comparing a guy's handling of a game at the college level to those at the pro level is sort of unfair because those guys have the advantage of better coaching and tools to work with at the higher level.

As for the Florida game he hardly quit, right up to the end he was standing in the pocket and getting his ass kicked, that isnt the sign of a quitter, also two of the 3 interceptions to me looked like receiver mistakes. He also should have had a TD when Moreno was interfered with in the endzone(not called) and he had a TE that decided to run through the endzone on a play that would have been a TD rather than sit down and show his numbers to the QB. If it sounds like i'm making excuses i sort of am. I dont think his supporting cast is all that good to tell the truth. We'll see and good repsonses by the way.

Halsey
11-06-2008, 04:35 PM
So i guess when Stafford is 25-5 in the SEC the 25 wins come when they run the ball and the 5 losses come when Stafford screws up.
Oh, so Stafford gets no credit when they win and all the blame when they lose. Yeah, that sounds like 12 year old logic to me. It's not realistic or even worth arguing. I'll take Archie Manning's opinion over 12 year old logic, thanks.

Mr. Offseason
11-06-2008, 04:55 PM
Once he goes to the combine the scouts will forget all about the gametape and watch him throw. The combine will solidify himself a top five pick no matter what he does.

i agree 100% with this.

He reminds me of this guy. Except without a good college career. Everybody fawns over the physical tools, but too often his team is carrying him to the finish line instead of the other way around. He has been a glorified game manager his entire college career.


thats harsh but its not completely unfounded. both, as you said, had/have very good physical tools and are projected to be very high selections. and while i havent exactly said it in so few words i cant disagree with your last statement about him being a game manager. he has great tools but as i have said a couple times in this thread he doesnt make guys around him better, so what does that make him? hes not a leader, he doesnt elevate the rest of his team... so there isnt much else you can use to describe him.

Your responses can be pretty long winded but i do agree with a lot of what you say and disagree with others, first off comparing a guy's handling of a game at the college level to those at the pro level is sort of unfair because those guys have the advantage of better coaching and tools to work with at the higher level.

As for the Florida game he hardly quit, right up to the end he was standing in the pocket and getting his ass kicked, that isnt the sign of a quitter, also two of the 3 interceptions to me looked like receiver mistakes. He also should have had a TD when Moreno was interfered with in the endzone(not called) and he had a TE that decided to run through the endzone on a play that would have been a TD rather than sit down and show his numbers to the QB. If it sounds like i'm making excuses i sort of am. I dont think his supporting cast is all that good to tell the truth. We'll see and good repsonses by the way.

ha yeah im sorry, im afraid i repeated myself a few times. i guess im trying to fit a couple posts all into one. lol

well that is one reason i dont like kiper and mcshay comparing stafford to elway and favre. they are 2 NFL greats and comparing him to them is unfair to all 3 of them because stafford is in college and both of them will be in the hall of fame.

the TE play is tough for me. sure he could have sat down and let stafford hit him, but i think what he saw was stafford rolling and so he kept rolling out with him to try to keep him from having to throw back across his body. it just sounds like a miscommunication to me.

all i know is that he looked very dejected on the sidelines. ive never really seen him be a leader before and he didnt look like one to me much on saturday.

and thanks, this is a good discussion.

-Mr. Offseason

Halsey
11-06-2008, 04:57 PM
He reminds me of this guy. Except without a good college career. Everybody fawns over the physical tools, but too often his team is carrying him to the finish line instead of the other way around. He has been a glorified game manager his entire college career.
http://warroomreport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/ryanleaf.jpg

That's an original comparison. It was only a few months ago Matt Ryanwas being compared to Leaf. If you don't believe me use the forum search function. Here's just one of the many hits I got inwhich Ryan Leaf is compared to Matt Ryan:
http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20527&page=2&highlight=Matt+Ryan+Leaf

Way to be original. :D

Mr. Offseason
11-06-2008, 04:59 PM
Oh, so Stafford gets no credit when they win and all the blame when they lose. Yeah, that sounds like 12 year old logic to me. It's not realistic or even worth arguing. I'll take Archie Manning's opinion over 12 year old logic, thanks.

you do realize that he is of the opinion that stafford had a lot to do with the wins right? that was a sarcastic comment aimed at me i believe. anyways, you really misread that comment. very funny. lol

illmatic74
11-06-2008, 05:11 PM
That's an original comparison. It was only a few months ago Matt Ryanwas being compared to Leaf. If you don't believe me use the forum search function. Here's just one of the many hits I got inwhich Ryan Leaf is compared to Matt Ryan:
http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20527&page=2&highlight=Matt+Ryan+Leaf

Way to be original. :D Reading last year's topic about Ryan is hilarious.

Geason Noceur
11-06-2008, 06:57 PM
matt ryan displayed this intangible in college despite his team being mediocre as a junior and they ended up, what... 9-3 last year? he carried his team and won games for them, stafford absolutely does not do that. that was my point. elway and favre were only mentioned because kiper, mcshay and other proponents of stafford have likened him to them.

Funny. I can think of several instances in which Stafford either carried his team or won games for them. Auburn 06', GT '06 (he brought the team back with less than a minute left to play), VT '06 after being down by 20, Vandy '07 (directed a game winning drive), Bama (OT TD), Auburn (ask any AU fan which QB has given them a beatdown the last two years), and GT in '07. LSU and USC (both TDs were set up by the QB) in '08.

Also, if you know anything about UGA is that their coach preaches that the QB is not supposed to try to win the game by himself. That's why they're very balanced on offense. Any person who expects a QB to win two games when they are down by 30+ points, and he's being protected by a bunch of sophomores and freshmen, in a league known for it's defenses has unrealistic expectations IMO.

Mr. Offseason
11-06-2008, 07:43 PM
Funny. I can think of several instances in which Stafford either carried his team or won games for them. Auburn 06', GT '06 (he brought the team back with less than a minute left to play), VT '06 after being down by 20, Vandy '07 (directed a game winning drive), Bama (OT TD), Auburn (ask any AU fan which QB has given them a beatdown the last two years), and GT in '07. LSU and USC (both TDs were set up by the QB) in '08.

Also, if you know anything about UGA is that their coach preaches that the QB is not supposed to try to win the game by himself. That's why they're very balanced on offense. Any person who expects a QB to win two games when they are down by 30+ points, and he's being protected by a bunch of sophomores and freshmen, in a league known for it's defenses has unrealistic expectations IMO.

i admitted either in this thread or in another that i was not aware of past comebacks. thank you for letting me know about them. i count... 9? that is pretty respectable. however considering their balanced offense it seems a little unlikely that he just threw the team on his back and threw them back into the game.

here are his stats from those comeback/carrying wins:

Auburn '06: 14/20, 219 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- this game wasnt even close: 37-15
Georgia Tech '06: 16/29, 171 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 15-12
Virginia Tech '06: 9/21, 129 yards, 1:1 TD: INT- 31-24
Vanderbilt '07: 16/31, 201 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 20-17
Alabama '07: 19/35, 224 yards, 2:2 TD:INT- 26-23 in OT
Auburn '07: 11/19, 237 yards, 2:1 TD:INT- 45-20, again... not even close.
Georgia Tech '07: 14/29, 214 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 31-17
South Carolina '08: 15/25, 146 yards, 0:0 TD:INT- 14-7
LSU '08 (best game of his career imo): 17/26, 249 yards, 2:0 TD:INT- 53-38

i watched a couple of these games but not all of them. i have to admit i am not particularly impressed by this list, but i did not see all of the games so i am wary of criticizing it.

here are his stats when he throws the ball 30 or more times for his career:

2079 yards (231 per game), 170/319= 53.3%, 6.52 ypa, 9:15 TD:INT ratio.

that is what happens when stafford throws the ball 30+ times for his career. that is why i dont think he is impressive when he has to throw his team back in to games. when he throws the ball a lot he makes a lot of mistakes, and that is a red flag for me.

i know you might not agree with my assessment of these statistics, but seriously... this is a bit alarming. with good talent around him for most of his career... why does he play so poorly when the pressure is on and he has to carry the offense?

i think it is because he isnt the guy you want in the clutch. matt ryan is a guy you want in the clutch. im not sold on stafford in those situations, and these statistics dont do much to change my mind.

Halsey
11-06-2008, 09:16 PM
Mr Offseason demonstrates why so many message board QB scouts think they know more than the real pros who call Stafford the top draft eligible QB prospect in college football: Stats. Stafford doesn't have enough pretty stat lines. Let them keep harping on that just like people harped on Matt Ryan's TD-INT ratio. Ryan's wasn't even close to 2:1. The professionals know better than to put too much into pretty stats.

ElectricEye
11-06-2008, 09:23 PM
Say whatever you want about the way he looks, but the stat about him throwing the ball 30+ times a game is real. No matter how good he looks at times; yourfavestoner is right, he's been a glorified game manger.

Halsey
11-06-2008, 09:32 PM
Say whatever you want about the way he looks, but the stat about him throwing the ball 30+ times a game is real. No matter how good he looks at times; yourfavestoner is right, he's been a glorified game manger.

Yep, just like he was right here:
"'m saying it again...
Matt Ryan=Matt Leinart"

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21133&page=4&highlight=matt+ryan

NFL teams should just come to this MB for draft advice.

ElectricEye
11-06-2008, 09:34 PM
What in the HELL does Matt Ryan have to do with Matt Stafford? I'm seriously sick of this. That makes no sense what so ever. Has no place here at all. Matt Stafford and Matt Ryan are hardly the first quarterback prospects to face some criticism. That's pretty much the only thing they have in common too.

Mr. Offseason
11-06-2008, 09:50 PM
Mr Offseason demonstrates why so many message board QB scouts think they know more than the real pros who call Stafford the top draft eligible QB prospect in college football: Stats. Stafford doesn't have enough pretty stat lines. Let them keep harping on that just like people harped on Matt Ryan's TD-INT ratio. Ryan's wasn't even close to 2:1. The professionals know better than to put too much into pretty stats.

halsey im a little tired of your crap. you complain about people spinning your posts but you do it more than anyone.

i was simply curious about how he looked in the comeback games and how he looked in the games in which he threw 30+ passes and so i compiled the stats and posted them. you like stafford, congratulations. i dont like stafford as much as you do and i am willing to discuss some of his flaws which clearly you are not. i even wrote IN ONE OF THE POSTS that i was not reading too much into them because i did not watch the games. i did mention, however, that his performance in games in which he threw more than 30 passes seemed to be consistent with what my opinion of him was before i compiled the statistics. that is, after i watched him play and made my own observations.

i dont recall ever saying that i know more than the real pros or ever even bringing that up at all. im 18 and im in college, i am not a scout. that doesnt mean i cant make observations on stafford and disagree with you on how i think his attributes (both physical and mental) project to the nfl. get off your high horse and try to get that through your overconfident skull. i have put up with your garbage on one message board and im not about to deal with it on another one.

yourfavestoner
11-07-2008, 03:45 AM
That's an original comparison. It was only a few months ago Matt Ryanwas being compared to Leaf. If you don't believe me use the forum search function. Here's just one of the many hits I got inwhich Ryan Leaf is compared to Matt Ryan:
http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20527&page=2&highlight=Matt+Ryan+Leaf

Way to be original. :D

I'm not as stupid as most of the posters here, though, so I'd never consider comparing Ryan to Leaf. Anybody who would compare the two is, quite frankly, stupid.

I thought about it and here's a better comparison for you, though.
http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/12/kerrycollins.jpg
Coming out, both are very similar. Lots of hype coming from a very winning program. Very conservative offenses that were centered around All-American running backs. Again, a glorified game manager.

Remember people, Kerry Collins was a very highly touted player coming out of Penn State. Everybody was gaga over that rocket arm he had.

Halsey
11-07-2008, 09:36 AM
Kerry Collins has been to two conference Championship games, a Super Bowl and is currently the starting QB for the only undefeated team in football. Matthew Stafford, however, is not Kerry Collins. He's Matthew Stafford. Sophmoric comparisons like that from stoners on message boards don't really mean anything. The opinions of professionals do. Stafford is the consensus top pro QB prospect among pros.

ElectricEye
11-07-2008, 09:58 AM
Kerry Collins has been to two conference Championship games, a Super Bowl and is currently the starting QB for the only undefeated team in football. Matthew Stafford, however, is not Kerry Collins. He's Matthew Stafford. Sophmoric comparisons like that from stoners on message boards don't really mean anything. The opinions of professionals do. Stafford is the consensus top pro QB prospect among pros.

So was Kerry Collins. The point is that he wasn't worth the hype, and he had the same sort of shortcomings. Collins was actually a more productive passer coming out though.

Oh, and this is an NFL Draft message board. We're entitled to our opinions. Of course they don't mean anything. No one said they did. We're not trying to sway front offices here. We're making personal evaluations. I completely agree to the point that scouts opinions have a lot more value, but it's not like anyone is right a hundred percent of the time. How many highly touted quarterbacks have flopped? It happens half of the time, regardless of what pro scouts think of them.

bored of education
11-07-2008, 10:21 AM
Does Matt Stafford have a drinking problem?

Splat
11-07-2008, 10:37 AM
Does Matt Stafford have a drinking problem?

Do you? :)

619
11-07-2008, 10:40 AM
Do you? :)

You think. :rolleyes:

Babylon
11-07-2008, 11:29 AM
Does Matt Stafford have a drinking problem?

He will if he ends up in KC.:)

georgiafan
11-07-2008, 11:53 AM
Does Matt Stafford have a drinking problem?

Everyone that goes to UGA drinks so..

Geason Noceur
11-07-2008, 12:43 PM
i admitted either in this thread or in another that i was not aware of past comebacks. thank you for letting me know about them. i count... 9? that is pretty respectable. however considering their balanced offense it seems a little unlikely that he just threw the team on his back and threw them back into the game.

here are his stats from those comeback/carrying wins:

Auburn '06: 14/20, 219 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- this game wasnt even close: 37-15
Georgia Tech '06: 16/29, 171 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 15-12
Virginia Tech '06: 9/21, 129 yards, 1:1 TD: INT- 31-24
Vanderbilt '07: 16/31, 201 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 20-17
Alabama '07: 19/35, 224 yards, 2:2 TD:INT- 26-23 in OT
Auburn '07: 11/19, 237 yards, 2:1 TD:INT- 45-20, again... not even close.
Georgia Tech '07: 14/29, 214 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 31-17
South Carolina '08: 15/25, 146 yards, 0:0 TD:INT- 14-7
LSU '08 (best game of his career imo): 17/26, 249 yards, 2:0 TD:INT- 53-38

i watched a couple of these games but not all of them. i have to admit i am not particularly impressed by this list, but i did not see all of the games so i am wary of criticizing it.

here are his stats when he throws the ball 30 or more times for his career:

2079 yards (231 per game), 170/319= 53.3%, 6.52 ypa, 9:15 TD:INT ratio.

that is what happens when stafford throws the ball 30+ times for his career. that is why i dont think he is impressive when he has to throw his team back in to games. when he throws the ball a lot he makes a lot of mistakes, and that is a red flag for me.

i know you might not agree with my assessment of these statistics, but seriously... this is a bit alarming. with good talent around him for most of his career... why does he play so poorly when the pressure is on and he has to carry the offense?

i think it is because he isnt the guy you want in the clutch. matt ryan is a guy you want in the clutch. im not sold on stafford in those situations, and these statistics dont do much to change my mind.

If you had watched him in those games you would have noticed that the stats do not always tell the whole story on this guy. But I did go back and took a look at his situational stats though, and I noticed that even though he's asked to throw the ball on third down more than guys like McCoy, Bradford, Tebow, etc., that his completion percentage actually goes up on third and long unlike those other QBs. Of those games that you listed, I can remember at least six that were won on the fourth quarter with Stafford makings his best plays under pressure. If that's not clutch then I don't know what is.

Also, you bring up throwing the ball 30+ times a game. If anything is true about the Georgia Bulldogs is that they run the ball more than they throw. If they ask the QB to throw the ball more than 30 times a game is because they are down by 20-30+ points, and they have to get away from their usual gameplan, which is running the ball. In those cases, everyone and their grandmothers in the stadium know that they're going to throw the ball and take chances to try and catch up.

And yes, he has good talent around him, but it's young, inexperienced talent. Believe it or not, Stafford is one of the youngest starting QBs in the SEC behind only LSU's and Kentucky's freshmen QBs. And yet, he's older than every single one of his offensive linemen (all fr and sophomores). His RB, TE and best WR are sophomores and true freshman respectively.

I think Georgia's QB is doing a good job considering all the youth around him.

georgiafan
11-08-2008, 02:58 PM
Heck of a game by Stafford today 17 of 27, 3 TD, 376 yards.

BamaFalcon59
11-08-2008, 03:01 PM
To be fair, a ton of yards were after the catch. Kentucky left the underneath open all day.

But he did play well.

georgiafan
11-08-2008, 03:14 PM
To be fair, a ton of yards were after the catch. Kentucky left the underneath open all day.

But he did play well.

True, but this the first time in his career the WR's have got this much YAC. I've always said one of the biggest reason he doens't put up monster stats is because the lack of YAC. Today they finally did and you see what happend.

Babylon
11-08-2008, 03:26 PM
True, but this the first time in his career the WR's have got this much YAC. I've always said one of the biggest reason he doens't put up monster stats is because the lack of YAC. Today they finally did and you see what happend.

He must of thought he was in the big-12 today. My only regret is he won't be there when some of my favorite teams are picking. Going to Detroit is like going to Siberia, hopefully someone will trade up.

illmatic74
11-08-2008, 03:28 PM
Looks like Stafford finally had a dominant game.

vidae
11-08-2008, 03:29 PM
He must of thought he was in the big-12 today. My only regret is he won't be there when some of my favorite teams are picking. Going to Detroit is like going to Siberia, hopefully someone will trade up.

Or hopefully they decide to fix that OL first so he drops to KC!

bored of education
11-08-2008, 03:34 PM
his o line sucks and he had some god damn amazing throws no matter their distance wow

Babylon
11-08-2008, 03:42 PM
Looks like Stafford finally had a dominant game.

He was actually dominant against Arizona St and LSU but they got big leads so they stopped throwing the ball, they like to run first there at Georgia, he still didnt have that many attempts throwing today.

Babylon
11-08-2008, 03:42 PM
Or hopefully they decide to fix that OL first so he drops to KC!


You can only hope for their stupidity there to continue.

P-L
11-08-2008, 03:45 PM
I know it was against Kentucky, but that was a #1 overall pick type performance.

Sniper
11-08-2008, 03:45 PM
You can only hope for their stupidity there to continue.

I'd take any of the top 3 OL before Stafford.

illmatic74
11-08-2008, 03:47 PM
He was actually dominant against Arizona St and LSU but they got big leads so they stopped throwing the ball, they like to run first there at Georgia, he still didnt have that many attempts throwing today. I saw both games and he was only good in that game.

Babylon
11-08-2008, 03:55 PM
I'd take any of the top 3 OL before Stafford.

I can only hope that GMs think like you and he can drop a little, something tells me you're out there on a limb by yourself.

Sniper
11-08-2008, 04:02 PM
I can only hope that GMs think like you and he can drop a little, something tells me you're out there on a limb by yourself.

Perhaps. I just think that the Lions can get better value with Oher/Monroe/Smith at #1 (or wherever they pick in the top 5) and grabbing a QB late in the first round if they feel QB is completely necessary this year. HOWEVA, they need to address the defense with one of their first rounders.

Babylon
11-08-2008, 04:14 PM
Perhaps. I just think that the Lions can get better value with Oher/Monroe/Smith at #1 (or wherever they pick in the top 5) and grabbing a QB late in the first round if they feel QB is completely necessary this year. HOWEVA, they need to address the defense with one of their first rounders.


Your logic is spot on if you believe Stafford isnt a superstar in the making, i do.

Sniper
11-08-2008, 04:14 PM
Your logic is spot on if you believe Stafford isnt a superstar in the making, i do.

Clashing opinions then. I believe in building the lines. Stafford could be John Elway and would still suck without an OL.

Babylon
11-08-2008, 04:25 PM
Clashing opinions then. I believe in building the lines. Stafford could be John Elway and would still suck without an OL.

I like the John Elway mention. I think it's easier to build an OL than find a franchise QB. By the way have they given up on Backus and Cherilus there in Detroit?

Sniper
11-08-2008, 04:27 PM
I'm not the biggest Stafford guy, but that scramble+toss to the back of the end zone was sick. Great throw.

ElectricEye
11-08-2008, 10:17 PM
Really great game today. That was pretty much exactly what I wanted to see out of him. Close game, dominant performance. It was against Kentucky, but I would just be bashing on him for the sake of it if I were to use that. I'm still not sold at all on him, but that was a step in the right direction.

Babylon
11-08-2008, 10:21 PM
Really great game today. That was pretty much exactly what I wanted to see out of him. Close game, dominant performance. It was against Kentucky, but I would just be bashing on him for the sake of it if I were to use that. I'm still not sold at all on him, but that was a step in the right direction.

We'll have you converted by the draft.

ElectricEye
11-08-2008, 10:25 PM
We'll have you converted by the draft.

Haha. I made a considerable effort to get in there and cover my bases. He had a great game today. Can't take anything away from that.

I really wish there was some sort of way he could play in the Senior Bowl. Obviously, he can't and shouldn't really be able to...but I would love to hear what scouts have to say about him on a even playing field. I think that would really answer some questions. Not as many as I would like, but it would be interesting.

BigBanger
11-09-2008, 12:14 AM
i admitted either in this thread or in another that i was not aware of past comebacks. thank you for letting me know about them. i count... 9? that is pretty respectable. however considering their balanced offense it seems a little unlikely that he just threw the team on his back and threw them back into the game.

here are his stats from those comeback/carrying wins:

Auburn '06: 14/20, 219 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- this game wasnt even close: 37-15
Georgia Tech '06: 16/29, 171 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 15-12
Virginia Tech '06: 9/21, 129 yards, 1:1 TD: INT- 31-24
Vanderbilt '07: 16/31, 201 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 20-17
Alabama '07: 19/35, 224 yards, 2:2 TD:INT- 26-23 in OT
Auburn '07: 11/19, 237 yards, 2:1 TD:INT- 45-20, again... not even close.
Georgia Tech '07: 14/29, 214 yards, 1:0 TD:INT- 31-17
South Carolina '08: 15/25, 146 yards, 0:0 TD:INT- 14-7
LSU '08 (best game of his career imo): 17/26, 249 yards, 2:0 TD:INT- 53-38

i watched a couple of these games but not all of them. i have to admit i am not particularly impressed by this list, but i did not see all of the games so i am wary of criticizing it.

here are his stats when he throws the ball 30 or more times for his career:

2079 yards (231 per game), 170/319= 53.3%, 6.52 ypa, 9:15 TD:INT ratio.

that is what happens when stafford throws the ball 30+ times for his career. that is why i dont think he is impressive when he has to throw his team back in to games. when he throws the ball a lot he makes a lot of mistakes, and that is a red flag for me.

i know you might not agree with my assessment of these statistics, but seriously... this is a bit alarming. with good talent around him for most of his career... why does he play so poorly when the pressure is on and he has to carry the offense?

i think it is because he isnt the guy you want in the clutch. matt ryan is a guy you want in the clutch. im not sold on stafford in those situations, and these statistics dont do much to change my mind.
Have you taken into consideration that you're pulling stats up on an 18 or 19 year old QB? He doesn't face the defenses of the big 12. He's not in a spread offense where he can throw to one-on-one coverage all game long and put up 454 yards like its nothing. He doesn't have those opportunities, and he never he will. If that's what you want to see from him, then stop looking because you'll never find it.

You seem more worried about talking heads say and how much they like him (Even though McShay doesn't like him as much Kiper) since he has the physical tools of John Elway or Jay Cutler of recent past. When you hear that you automatically have high expectations. You expect him to put up the same numbers as Sam Bradford. You just don't understand why he will not and cannot do that. It's not because he's not talented enough. He's got more talent. He's not in a scheme that gives him the same opportunities. When I see him throw an incompletion, I look to see what he was looking at; what kind of defense he saw; where he threw the ball (Back shoulder/front shoulder); what other options he had (if any); if he was pressured; how were his mechanics; how tight was the coverage (was there even a window there?); was there play action; did the defense bring pressure; did they change their look from pre snap to post snap; how well did he hold the safeties. There is a lot that goes into a Matt Stafford incompletion.

Bradford waits for a guy to get open and throws it to him once he does. Chase Daniel does the same. Colt McCoy does it. I love him, but Tim Tebow does the same. It's not hard to put up stats in those systems. You put Bradford in Staffords system, and we wouldn't even be talking about him or Georgia since they wouldn't even be ranked.

It's a projection to the NFL. Matt Ryan projected better to the NFL than he did the college level. If you had the chance to take Tebow or Ryan to lead an NFL team, who are going to take based on college success? I want the guy that faced some adversity. Not the guy who got it easy, throwing to open targets all day long. I want the guy throwing it into windows these other QB don't even see.


A guy open to Matt Stafford is a guy blanketed to Sam Bradford. That's the difference.

Babylon
11-09-2008, 12:18 AM
^
They'll only let me give you 7 rep points, well earned.

MidwayMonster31
11-09-2008, 01:15 AM
One other big difference is that a lot of Bradford's numbers are coming from his receivers making big runs after the catch. I think Stafford's game translates better for the NFL. He is making those "NFL throws" that Jaws touches on every draft. Kiper even predicted that Stafford would be a first round pick when he was in high school.

ThEvIcTR
11-09-2008, 01:40 AM
Do I really have to show the stats of that much feared Kentucky Wildcat D?

It is pretty easy when your running back is going for 160 and the Kentucky secondary didn't even feel like playing coverage.

congratulations the most overrated college football player of the year finally had a dominate game, oh wait it was against Kentucky which should be getting there doors blown off by Georgia.

ElectricEye
11-09-2008, 09:36 AM
Do I really have to show the stats of that much feared Kentucky Wildcat D?

It is pretty easy when your running back is going for 160 and the Kentucky secondary didn't even feel like playing coverage.

congratulations the most overrated college football player of the year finally had a dominate game, oh wait it was against Kentucky which should be getting there doors blown off by Georgia.

The fact remains that he still did it. Up until this point, he hadn't done that type of thing. The question who it was against comes after if he's done it or not.

draftguru151
11-09-2008, 09:36 AM
Kentucky's defense has been pretty good this season. But yea lets just dismiss everything good he does like normal.

Babylon
11-09-2008, 11:37 AM
Kentucky's defense has been pretty good this season. But yea lets just dismiss everything good he does like normal.


I don't know if that was his best game because i've seen him make similar throws in dozens of others, but if it was then toss it out and he's still about 26-5 in the SEC with some unblievable throws and leadership. I think the pervailing thouught is he has a great arm and can make all the throws but somehow cant manage a game or make reads, to me that's BS. I've seen Stafford make reads and progressions in every game and he stands in there and doesnt miss time from being hit on a pretty frequent basis. Best upside of any QB i have seen in 25 years.

RaiderNation
11-09-2008, 03:11 PM
I think Stafford can be a good QB but I wouldnt want to take him with a top 10 pick.

georgiafan
11-09-2008, 03:55 PM
Do I really have to show the stats of that much feared Kentucky Wildcat D?

You mean the stats that have them 23rd national agianst the pass in yards.

Mr. Offseason
11-09-2008, 04:47 PM
Have you taken into consideration that you're pulling stats up on an 18 or 19 year old QB? He doesn't face the defenses of the big 12. He's not in a spread offense where he can throw to one-on-one coverage all game long and put up 454 yards like its nothing. He doesn't have those opportunities, and he never he will. If that's what you want to see from him, then stop looking because you'll never find it.

You seem more worried about talking heads say and how much they like him (Even though McShay doesn't like him as much Kiper) since he has the physical tools of John Elway or Jay Cutler of recent past. When you hear that you automatically have high expectations. You expect him to put up the same numbers as Sam Bradford. You just don't understand why he will not and cannot do that. It's not because he's not talented enough. He's got more talent. He's not in a scheme that gives him the same opportunities. When I see him throw an incompletion, I look to see what he was looking at; what kind of defense he saw; where he threw the ball (Back shoulder/front shoulder); what other options he had (if any); if he was pressured; how were his mechanics; how tight was the coverage (was there even a window there?); was there play action; did the defense bring pressure; did they change their look from pre snap to post snap; how well did he hold the safeties. There is a lot that goes into a Matt Stafford incompletion.

Bradford waits for a guy to get open and throws it to him once he does. Chase Daniel does the same. Colt McCoy does it. I love him, but Tim Tebow does the same. It's not hard to put up stats in those systems. You put Bradford in Staffords system, and we wouldn't even be talking about him or Georgia since they wouldn't even be ranked.

It's a projection to the NFL. Matt Ryan projected better to the NFL than he did the college level. If you had the chance to take Tebow or Ryan to lead an NFL team, who are going to take based on college success? I want the guy that faced some adversity. Not the guy who got it easy, throwing to open targets all day long. I want the guy throwing it into windows these other QB don't even see.


A guy open to Matt Stafford is a guy blanketed to Sam Bradford. That's the difference.

i have taken that into consideration. and i will give him props where they are deserved, he played a great game and that throw to AJ green in the corner was amazing. when i saw that the game was back and forth i thought to myself "this is where a QB like stafford will have to lead a comeback drive and win the game for georgia" and he did that. my criticism of him about not being able to lead comeback drives and win games late was unfounded as i believe babylon pointed out, and now i have seen it for myself. while it was against kentucky it was an even game the whole way and stafford made the play to put Georgia ahead when he had to. i cant say enough about that throw.

now, i dont necessarilly want to see him put up 450 yards, but i would like to see him consistently hit closer to 300. i realize that they run a very balanced offense and so he doesnt throw the ball as much as other QB's do, but 2 300 yard games in his career? i mean i dont want to read too much into the stats, those were brought up because i was curious to see if my opinion was unfounded or if there was some substance to it, but i feel like there has to be some significance to it. but i dont want to be unfair, so ill just have to go back to the tape.

when i hear him being compared to those guys and then when i see people agree with kiper and mcshay about the comparisons i take them into consideration. i have seen some people on the AFMB agree with it which is why i brought it up.

very good points about the incompletion. i have started to watch some tape on sam bradford and i will soon watch some on stafford (havent watched any more than once, just what i get televised up here at my college dorm room in wisconsin), and while its early to make observations lets just say there are seeds of doubt there, and some of them are similar to points you have made in this post. again, i need to watch more of both of them but i have questions i really need to look into on both of them now.

good post, and good discussion. i have already realized i was wrong on a couple talking points when it comes to stafford. the kentucky game was supporting evidence of that. im interested to get to the tape of stafford so i can start comparing him more aptly to sam bradford.

-Mr. Offseason

neko4
11-09-2008, 04:57 PM
I think Stafford can be a good QB but I wouldnt want to take him with a top 10 pick.
I wouldnt take him the top 10 either, but he's got a great arm. Has a good frame, and the rest of the physical tools are there too. And has above average intangibles too.

georgiafan
11-09-2008, 05:04 PM
He is avg. 258 yards a game this year so thats not to far off from 300. Atleast you admit you was wrong about something and give him credit thats more then most people on here.

Mr. Offseason
11-09-2008, 05:11 PM
He is avg. 258 yards a game this year so thats not to far off from 300. Atleast you admit you was wrong about something and give him credit thats more then most people on here.

thanks for posting that i was wondering what he was averaging this year, i felt like it was lower than that but i trust that youre accurate, and i havent seen all his games like you probably have.

i like to think im good about that, but thanks. admitting you are wrong is important to do because no one is ever always right. it can be hard sometimes though.

anyways, i cant wait to get back to the tape. im working through a sam bradford game right now and sometime in the middle of this week i should be able to watch a game or two of stafford. id like to re-watch his game versus lsu, kentucky and i also plan on watching the bama game.

D-Unit
11-09-2008, 05:16 PM
So one win and he's back in the good graces of God. Typical fandom.

Is Stafford a first round pick? Yes. Is he a good NFL prospect? Yes. Is he the best QB prospect in college football? Hell no.

Mr. Offseason
11-09-2008, 05:20 PM
So one win and he's back in the good graces of God. Typical fandom.

Is Stafford a first round pick? Yes. Is he a good NFL prospect? Yes. Is he the best QB prospect in college football? Hell no.

i think it would be a little harsh to just ignore one of his better games, especially considering how he won it.

i think hes going top 5, but i thought that before and after the florida game and i sure as h*ll think it now. my questions are about how good he will be once he gets there, not how high he will go in the draft.

Babylon
11-09-2008, 05:38 PM
So one win and he's back in the good graces of God. Typical fandom.

Is Stafford a first round pick? Yes. Is he a good NFL prospect? Yes. Is he the best QB prospect in college football? Hell no.

One win?, he's 25-6 as a starter in the SEC as a 20 year old, that's not bad.

D-Unit
11-09-2008, 05:41 PM
One win?, he's 25-6 as a starter in the SEC as a 20 year old, that's not bad.
Yeah, compare that to Ken Dorsey. That win/loss record is completely meaningless in regards to his pro potential.

What I meant was people are quick to forget the bad and quick to praise the good for Stafford.

Babylon
11-09-2008, 05:46 PM
Yeah, compare that to Ken Dorsey. That win/loss record is completely meaningless in regards to his pro potential.

What I meant was people are quick to forget the bad and quick to praise the good for Stafford.


Good point on Dorsey. Funny how people see things differently, you arent too high on him and i see one of the best prospects at that position in decades. I guess that's why Baskin and Robbins has 31 flavors.

Let me also add that Dorsey had tons more talent to work with at the U than Georgia has.

ElectricEye
11-09-2008, 07:12 PM
So one win and he's back in the good graces of God. Typical fandom.

Is Stafford a first round pick? Yes. Is he a good NFL prospect? Yes. Is he the best QB prospect in college football? Hell no.

I agree with this very much so. I saw a bit of what I wanted to see out of him in that game, but my opinion is unchanged. Gotta give him credit for having a great game though.

D-Unit
11-09-2008, 07:17 PM
Good point on Dorsey. Funny how people see things differently, you arent too high on him and i see one of the best prospects at that position in decades. I guess that's why Baskin and Robbins has 31 flavors.

Let me also add that Dorsey had tons more talent to work with at the U than Georgia has.
The main things I don't like about Stafford are his decision making and accuracy.

This year's QB class is the weakest in decades unless the underclassmen declare.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-09-2008, 07:22 PM
D-Unit is right that people are quick to ignore the bad moments of Stafford in favor of the good moments. That said, from what I've seen, Stafford's bad moments are almost always understandable and his good moments are typically very impressive.

My biggest thing with college quarterbacks isn't if they make mistakes, it's if those mistakes were understandable or not. That was the difference between, say, Matt Ryan and Chad Henne last year. Ryan made a lot of bad throws, but he did so in the times you want your quarterback to do so. Very rarely did I not understand what he had been going for. Henne, on the other hand, made at least two or three throws a game that made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

I don't even have a problem with saying that Stafford isn't worth going where people are projecting him, but I'd love to know who anyone thinks is better. Because I think Stafford is head and shoulders above anyone else right now as an NFL prospect.

D-Unit
11-09-2008, 07:35 PM
D-Unit is right that people are quick to ignore the bad moments of Stafford in favor of the good moments. That said, from what I've seen, Stafford's bad moments are almost always understandable and his good moments are typically very impressive.

My biggest thing with college quarterbacks isn't if they make mistakes, it's if those mistakes were understandable or not. That was the difference between, say, Matt Ryan and Chad Henne last year. Ryan made a lot of bad throws, but he did so in the times you want your quarterback to do so. Very rarely did I not understand what he had been going for. Henne, on the other hand, made at least two or three throws a game that made absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

I don't even have a problem with saying that Stafford isn't worth going where people are projecting him, but I'd love to know who anyone thinks is better. Because I think Stafford is head and shoulders above anyone else right now as an NFL prospect.
What do you look for in a QB?

draftguru151
11-09-2008, 07:43 PM
What do you look for in a QB?

http://www.themoviemind.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/colt-brennan.jpg

Paranoidmoonduck
11-09-2008, 07:47 PM
What I look for in a quarterback would be hard to quantify is any real measure. I couldn't really lay out a list of which attributes are most important and which are least, or whatever. So many quarterbacks get their job done so many different ways in the NFL.

That said, beyond the basic stuff like mechanics and throwing ability, I think the way a quarterback goes through his progressions is a big one. Some guys tend to fly through their targets, usually trying to get to their dump off man as quick as possible. Some don't really progress at all and just flip between staring down two targets.

Really early last year, just as the NFL season was winding down and the draft buzz was starting to rise, I wasn't a fan of Matt Ryan. He appeared sloppy and without sufficient physical tools to overcome against better athletes. But then I sat down and started watching him play. The guy kept tabs on all covering defenders like an absolute pro. You could see him scan across the field and if he noticed a safety had swung out of position, he would skip all of his other progressions to the guy that was left open due to that. Some guys just react to what they see on the field faster and better than others.

Stafford as a junior isn't quite what Ryan was as a senior is that respect, but you see flashes of really quality play from him. He makes his reads well, moves in the pocket well, sets his body well, and delivers the ball really well. He's prone to relying on his arm, a luxury that can sink some quarterback at the next level, and sometimes he'll have issues seeing the different levels of the field, but he shows flashes plenty often enough to suggest that those mistakes will be less next year and even less the year after that.

georgiafan
11-09-2008, 09:17 PM
The main things I don't like about Stafford are his decision making and accuracy.

This year's QB class is the weakest in decades unless the underclassmen declare.

Both his decision making and accuracy are much better then last year. His interceptions are going to be about the same as last year. A year ago though his interceptions by and large came from his forcing throws. This year all but 2 of his interceptions have came from wrong routes or plays that won't hurt him come draft time. He does need to work on his accuracy on the deep ball, but his short and medium passes his accuracy is just fine. His comp. % is up 7 points to 61 this year.

P-L
11-09-2008, 10:24 PM
D-Unit is right that people are quick to ignore the bad moments of Stafford in favor of the good moments.
Well, I find the exact opposite is true as well. He's a pretty polarizing prospect it seems, but the ones who dislike him are ones who disappear when he has good moments but flock in bunches when he throws a couple interceptions. Some times you need to take the bad with the good and from what I've seen of Stafford, the good outweighs the bad.

Yeah, compare that to Ken Dorsey. That win/loss record is completely meaningless in regards to his pro potential.
Ken Dorsey did not have an NFL-caliber arm. Matt Stafford probably has one of the top five best arms of any college prospect in the last ten years. Ken Dorsey played on arguably the best college football team of all-time, with future NFL players at every position. Matt Stafford has inconsistent receivers and an offensive line that can't pass block. You want to compare Andre Johnson, Jeremy Shockey, and Kellen Winslow to A.J. Green, Mohammad Massaquoi, and Tripp Chandler? You're comparing apples to oranges there.

By the way I don't feel like searching for whoever questioned Kentucky's defense, but they aren't really that bad. Before Stafford lit them up, they were a top 20 pass defense in the country and were only allowing opposing quarterbacks to complete 50% of their passes and throw for 175 yards per game. Just because they have a bad record, doesn't mean they don't have a good pass defense.

jballa838
11-09-2008, 10:46 PM
. You want to compare Andre Johnson, Jeremy Shockey, and Kellen Winslow to A.J. Green, Mohammad Massaquoi, and Tripp Chandler? You're comparing apples to oranges there.

More like Platinum to bronze.

Habibi
11-09-2008, 11:01 PM
The main things I don't like about Stafford are his decision making and accuracy.

This year's QB class is the weakest in decades unless the underclassmen declare.

Decision making might be a problem, but not accuracy. Stafford's placement of the ball and the sheer touch he displays on most routes is unmatched in college football. I really don't think this is in any ways disputable.

D-Unit
11-09-2008, 11:19 PM
Well, I find the exact opposite is true as well. He's a pretty polarizing prospect it seems, but the ones who dislike him are ones who disappear when he has good moments but flock in bunches when he throws a couple interceptions. Some times you need to take the bad with the good and from what I've seen of Stafford, the good outweighs the bad.

I'm here after an apparent "good game" from Stafford, so don't bunch me up in that group.

Ken Dorsey did not have an NFL-caliber arm. Matt Stafford probably has one of the top five best arms of any college prospect in the last ten years. Ken Dorsey played on arguably the best college football team of all-time, with future NFL players at every position. Matt Stafford has inconsistent receivers and an offensive line that can't pass block. You want to compare Andre Johnson, Jeremy Shockey, and Kellen Winslow to A.J. Green, Mohammad Massaquoi, and Tripp Chandler? You're comparing apples to oranges there.

Wow. Talk about taking something way way out of context. Never ever ever did I compare Stafford to Dorsey. Someone tried to say Stafford was good because of his wins. Wins is a meaningless measurable for a QB imo. That's what I was saying. OMG.

By the way I don't feel like searching for whoever questioned Kentucky's defense, but they aren't really that bad. Before Stafford lit them up, they were a top 20 pass defense in the country and were only allowing opposing quarterbacks to complete 50% of their passes and throw for 175 yards per game. Just because they have a bad record, doesn't mean they don't have a good pass defense.
Response in bold.

D-Unit
11-09-2008, 11:32 PM
Decision making might be a problem, but not accuracy. Stafford's placement of the ball and the sheer touch he displays on most routes is unmatched in college football. I really don't think this is in any ways disputable.
Yeah right. There's a reason why Stafford defenders are always blaming his OL and his WRs for being crap every time Stafford throws a bad pass. They wouldn't be saying that if his accuracy was the best in the nation..."unmatched" as you say. It's always his receivers fault and never Stafford's fault. It's always his OL's fault and never Stafford's fault. I hate those excuses. Enough is enough. There's no other prospect in college football who gets by with so many excuses.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-09-2008, 11:37 PM
Stafford's accuracy is spotty. But when he doesn't rush himself and sets himself, he's deliveres some damn pretty passes right on the money. Jay Cutler was the exact same way at Vandy. A few poor passes here and there interspersed with an occasional beauty of a throw.

Those things a quarterback coach can work with. The only thing keeping Stafford from being an accurate passer is his own process and his offensive line.

Habibi
11-10-2008, 01:52 AM
Yeah right. There's a reason why Stafford defenders are always blaming his OL and his WRs for being crap every time Stafford throws a bad pass. They wouldn't be saying that if his accuracy was the best in the nation..."unmatched" as you say. It's always his receivers fault and never Stafford's fault. It's always his OL's fault and never Stafford's fault. I hate those excuses. Enough is enough. There's no other prospect in college football who gets by with so many excuses.

Reading comprehension is not optional. I wasn't making excuses for Stafford --- I was outright pointing out to you that he's more accurate than any of the top-tier QBs, and I used his placement and touch as my evidence, not a mere completion percentage that's easily inflated by dump-offs and screens. His ball placement on out routes, intermediate crosses, and deep patters are unequivocally unmatched in the nation.

If you wanna point out his shoddy and inconsistent decision making fine, but saying accuracy as a weakness in his game is simply untrue, and it shows you're judging based on his stat line, nothing more.

Halsey
11-10-2008, 02:10 AM
Stafford averages 9 yards per pass attempt and is completing 61% of his passes. His accuracy isn't the issue some are making it out to be. Just like Matt Ryan's arm strength and number of INT's, or Joe Flacco not winning the starting job at Pitt and then playing at a lower level of competition, it's being blown out of proportion by less informed fans.

D-Unit
11-10-2008, 02:33 AM
Reading comprehension is not optional. I wasn't making excuses for Stafford --- I was outright pointing out to you that he's more accurate than any of the top-tier QBs, and I used his placement and touch as my evidence, not a mere completion percentage that's easily inflated by dump-offs and screens. His ball placement on out routes, intermediate crosses, and deep patters are unequivocally unmatched in the nation.

If you wanna point out his shoddy and inconsistent decision making fine, but saying accuracy as a weakness in his game is simply untrue, and it shows you're judging based on his stat line, nothing more.
Reading comprehension? Did you just go there? I'm just going to ignore you said that.

Before you go out on your wild assumptions and misjudgements, let me just say to you that I'm not basing my statements about his accuracy based off some stat line. If I wanted to do that, I would've.

If you've been here long enough, you'd know that Stafford supporters are continually placing blame on his WRs and OL every time Stafford seems to have a rough outing or series. If his accuracy was as sharp as you claim, then why all the excuses all the time? It doesn't add up.

If you think Stafford's accuracy is "unequivocally unmatched in the nation", then I suggest you watch some more football.

D-Unit
11-10-2008, 02:36 AM
Stafford's accuracy is spotty. But when he doesn't rush himself and sets himself, he's deliveres some damn pretty passes right on the money. Jay Cutler was the exact same way at Vandy. A few poor passes here and there interspersed with an occasional beauty of a throw.

Those things a quarterback coach can work with. The only thing keeping Stafford from being an accurate passer is his own process and his offensive line.
The player comparisons between Stafford and Cutler are completely unfounded. It's just as easy to say he's the next Cutler and it is to say he's the next Ryan Leaf. Comparisons, shmarisons.

I do believe that Stafford can be molded to be a better QB, and I can see why a quarterback's coach would love to be the one to help him get there. But from the sound of things from some folks, there's nothing to be corrected. That's what I don't agree with.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-10-2008, 03:00 AM
I wasn't trying to say that since Jay Cutler has found success in the NFL then that means Stafford will too. I was merely comparing him to another quarterback that played similarly in college and then managed to refine his game for the better in the NFL.

I do agree that Stafford is far from perfect. But some quarterback is going in the top five of this draft. If he comes out early, I really do think it's going to be him. He simply has the most promising game tape out of all the potential candidates.

D-Unit
11-10-2008, 04:35 AM
I wasn't trying to say that since Jay Cutler has found success in the NFL then that means Stafford will too. I was merely comparing him to another quarterback that played similarly in college and then managed to refine his game for the better in the NFL.

I do agree that Stafford is far from perfect. But some quarterback is going in the top five of this draft. If he comes out early, I really do think it's going to be him. He simply has the most promising game tape out of all the potential candidates.
I didn't say anything about Cutler's NFL success either. I don't think they played similarly in college. Cutler ran an offense that was based heavily on the run and it also gave him more opportunities to run as well. He had great rushing stats for a QB. Stafford runs in a different offensive set and I don't know if I see any similarities in their game. Maybe similarities in the body type and throwing motion, but not about a lot else.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-10-2008, 05:07 AM
Stafford might not have been asked to run as much as Cutler was at Vanderbilt, but Stafford can move. His freshman year he posted a considerably higher yards per carry average than any Cutler was able to post during any of his year's for the Commodores. Both have fairly similar throwing styles, physical abilities, and progressed similarly as passers over their first three years...

Matthew Stafford
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m249/paranoidmoonduck/staffordstats.jpg

Jay Cutler
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m249/paranoidmoonduck/cutlerstats-1.jpg

Habibi
11-10-2008, 11:36 AM
Reading comprehension? Did you just go there? I'm just going to ignore you said that.

You forced me to say that. By quoting me you made it seem as if I were making excuses for Stafford. That wasn't the case.

Before you go out on your wild assumptions and misjudgements, let me just say to you that I'm not basing my statements about his accuracy based off some stat line. If I wanted to do that, I would've.

Then what are you basing it on? Matthew Stafford throws to his WRs 74% of the time --- he's not gonna have a Bradford-esque-type completion percentage. Moreover, I haven't seen a single QB that consistently has the touch on his passes that Stafford has. Colt McCoy might come close, in terms of touch, but he doesn't throw to the same NFL routes that Stafford has.

If you've been here long enough, you'd know that Stafford supporters are continually placing blame on his WRs and OL every time Stafford seems to have a rough outing or series. If his accuracy was as sharp as you claim, then why all the excuses all the time? It doesn't add up.

Fair enough, but you made is sound as if I was the one making excuses for Stafford. I wasn't. I think he needs to majorly fine-tune his decision making, and he occasionally stares down receivers. Those are my two biggest problems with him. Accuracy is simply not an issue.

If you think Stafford's accuracy is "unequivocally unmatched in the nation", then I suggest you watch some more football.

If I watched anymore college football I wouldn't have a life. :)

D-Unit
11-10-2008, 11:44 AM
[/B]

If I watched anymore college football I wouldn't have a life. :)
So we are one in the same, just with a different opinion. HA.

I don't doubt for one second that Stafford could be a Top 5 selection if he were to declare. What I'm simply saying is that I think it's unwarranted hype. I felt the same way about Jamarcus Russell and Matt Ryan. Looks like I'm wrong about Ryan and the jury is still out on Russell, but I'm simply saying what I think. You are not wrong to say what you have said. I just don't agree with it.

georgiafan
11-10-2008, 12:06 PM
His accuracy does need to get better on the deep ball, i've said that all along. But of his 10 incomplete passes this week my guess is atleast half of them was on deep passes and another one a screen. The announcers said the wind was blowing real hard so that could have effected the deep ball. I still have the Kent. and LSU games on my DVR. So I can write down a list of incomplete passes if anyone wants me to. All of the deep passes has alot to with his comp. % being lower then some others.

You can argue his decison making still has ways to go, but not his accuracy on short and medium throws.

D-Unit
11-10-2008, 12:38 PM
His accuracy does to get better on the deep ball, i've said that all along. But of his 10 incomplete passes this week my guess is atleast half of them was on deep passes and another one a screen. The announcers said the wind was blowing real hard so that could have effected the deep ball. I still have the Kent. and LSU games on my DVR. So I can write down a list of incomplete passes if anyone wants me to. All of the deep passes has alot to with his comp. % being lower then some others.

You can argue his decison making still has ways to go, but not his accuracy on short and medium throws.
Well I don't disagree with you there. But Halabi said his accuracy is unequivocally unmatched in college ball. That's a lot different from what you just said.

Gotta love the excuses rolling through though.... First the WRs, then OL, now the wind. ;)

georgiafan
11-10-2008, 01:07 PM
Well I don't disagree with you there. But Halabi said his accuracy is unequivocally unmatched in college ball. That's a lot different from what you just said.

Gotta love the excuses rolling through though.... First the WRs, then OL, now the wind. ;)

What excuses I said he needs to work on his deep ball accuracy, but his short and medium passes he's accuracy is as good as any in the country. That has been the case the whole year and it was agian for this weeks game. I said that about the wind because the announcers talked about it alot during the game. Something people that didn't watch the game wouldn't know about it.

Babylon
11-10-2008, 02:09 PM
What excuses I said he needs to work on his deep ball accuracy, but his short and medium passes he's accuracy is as good as any in the country. That has been the case the whole year and it was agian for this weeks game. I said that about the wind because the announcers talked about it alot during the game. Something people that didn't watch the game wouldn't know about it.

I guess i'm probably one of those accused of making excuses but the points i have tried to make are in the context of why he was a 60% passer and not a 70% passer. Obviously you arent going to be 100% accurate all the time and i think Matt has had some mistakes and some other factors were out of his hands, that's football though. As to your comment on him being less accurate on the deep balls i think that is to be expected. What amazes me watching the guy is you see him force an occasional ball but when do you say he flat out missed someone.

On Seattle radio this morning there has been talk about the Hawks going in a direction that would include drafting Stafford, i would tell him it's a great place to live and certainly better than Detroit in my opinion. As for Detroit they dont look like they are giving up that top spot without a fight so we may have to do some fancy footwork to get in a position to draft Matt. I don't see Cincy or St. Louis or Oakland being in contention for a QB so the Lions are a problem for us, Just musing, have good one.

D-Unit
11-10-2008, 02:33 PM
What excuses I said he needs to work on his deep ball accuracy, but his short and medium passes he's accuracy is as good as any in the country. That has been the case the whole year and it was agian for this weeks game. I said that about the wind because the announcers talked about it alot during the game. Something people that didn't watch the game wouldn't know about it.
When people start to blame the wind on a QB who supposedly has one of the strongest arms in the nation, it doesn't look good.

georgiafan
11-10-2008, 03:21 PM
When people start to blame the wind on a QB who supposedly has one of the strongest arms in the nation, it doesn't look good.

I didn't blame the wind for anything, I said he needed to work on his deep ball accuracy.

D-Unit
11-10-2008, 03:41 PM
I didn't blame the wind for anything, I said he needed to work on his deep ball accuracy.
Oh ok. Well, sorry then. I just thought when you said, "The announcers said the wind was blowing real hard so that could have effected the deep ball," that that was intended to mean there was another reason why he had excuses for incompletions. I didn't know it was meant to mean something else.

sweetd20
11-10-2008, 03:59 PM
My favorite thing is when a QB is questioned because of his accuracy on the deep ball. Have those people ever watched a football game at the college or NFL level and seen how many deep passes teams actually connect on? Even the greatest QBs to ever play the game didn't connect on a high percentage of their passes of 35yds or more. Guys like Stafford and other QBs that play in offenses that send their WRs vertical get scrutinized more than others because in today's college game there just aren't many teams that still look to stretch the field. Today it's all about spreading the field dink and dunk looking for mismatches so the receivers can catch and run to gain yards. Compared to most of the other top college QBs this year if you go back and look I'm sure that a higher percentage of his yards have come off his arm instead of the legs of the other guys' receivers.

BBIB
11-14-2008, 01:30 PM
Stafford might not have been asked to run as much as Cutler was at Vanderbilt, but Stafford can move. His freshman year he posted a considerably higher yards per carry average than any Cutler was able to post during any of his year's for the Commodores. Both have fairly similar throwing styles, physical abilities, and progressed similarly as passers over their first three years...

Matthew Stafford
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m249/paranoidmoonduck/staffordstats.jpg

Jay Cutler
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m249/paranoidmoonduck/cutlerstats-1.jpg

Trying to compare Stafford and Cutler's numbers is a complete joke considering the cast that Stafford has compared to Cutler.

Furthermore Cutler is a guy who stayed until his Senior season where he was able to progress unlike STafford who is making the early leap.

Babylon
11-14-2008, 01:55 PM
Trying to compare Stafford and Cutler's numbers is a complete joke considering the cast that Stafford has compared to Cutler.

Furthermore Cutler is a guy who stayed until his Senior season where he was able to progress unlike STafford who is making the early leap.


What stood out to me about those numbers for Cutler and Stafford is they both played 3 years and where Cutler had like 780 pass attempts Stafford is on a pace for about 900+. Don't see any big advantage as far as experience goes.

Menardo75
11-14-2008, 02:20 PM
Stafford is also younger than Cutler was at this stage and that could slow his developement. (I.E. Alex Smith)

georgiafan
11-14-2008, 02:26 PM
Stafford is also younger than Cutler was at this stage and that could slow his developement. (I.E. Alex Smith)

Stafford's is still young and I believe he was one of the youngest in his QB class. He is even younger then guys like Bradford and Claussen while having more (or just as many) starts then all the underclassmen.

Menardo75
11-14-2008, 02:27 PM
Stafford's is still young and I believe he was one of the youngest in his QB class. He is even younger then guys like Bradford and Claussen while having more (or just as many) starts then all the underclassmen.

I still can'y believe he was starting in the SEC as an 18 year old thats insane.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 02:48 PM
I still can'y believe he was starting in the SEC as an 18 year old thats insane.

haha anyone who does that is ridiculous!

Andre Smith starting on the offensive line at 18 as a true freshman against very big and strong SEC D lineman? holy cow

Paranoidmoonduck
11-14-2008, 03:16 PM
Furthermore Cutler is a guy who stayed until his Senior season where he was able to progress unlike STafford who is making the early leap.

That's sorta been my point. If Jay Cutler had come out after that injury shortened junior season, he would have been lucky to go in the third round. Does that mean he wouldn't have developed into one of the better young quarterbacks in the NFL? Probably not.

Geason Noceur
11-14-2008, 04:19 PM
haha anyone who does that is ridiculous!

Andre Smith starting on the offensive line at 18 as a true freshman against very big and strong SEC D lineman? holy cow

Last year, Georgia had three freshmen on the offensive line. The left tackle (Sturdivant) was a true freshman. The other two were converted TEs, and one (Clint Boling) was a true freshman that arrived in the summer. He stuffed himself with P&J sandwiches the whole summer in order to reach 280 lbs.:eek:

This year they have three sophomores and two true freshmen on the line. Last week it was three freshmen and two sophomores, but they lost one of the freshmen to injury so they had to replace him with an undersized sophomore.

Turtlepower
11-14-2008, 04:35 PM
Last year, Georgia had three freshmen on the offensive line. The left tackle (Sturdivant) was a true freshman. The other two were converted TEs, and one (Clint Boling) was a true freshman that arrived in the summer. He stuffed himself with P&J sandwiches the whole summer in order to reach 280 lbs.:eek:

This year they have three sophomores and two true freshmen on the line. Last week it was three freshmen and two sophomores, but they lost one of the freshmen to injury so they had to replace him with an undersized sophomore.

Sturdivant is a future top-15 pick. People are really overlooking the loss of him this year to Georgia.

Menardo75
11-14-2008, 04:43 PM
Last year, Georgia had three freshmen on the offensive line. The left tackle (Sturdivant) was a true freshman. The other two were converted TEs, and one (Clint Boling) was a true freshman that arrived in the summer. He stuffed himself with P&J sandwiches the whole summer in order to reach 280 lbs.:eek:

I think the beer in cheese diet works way better. It does wonders :)

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 04:46 PM
Last year, Georgia had three freshmen on the offensive line. The left tackle (Sturdivant) was a true freshman. The other two were converted TEs, and one (Clint Boling) was a true freshman that arrived in the summer. He stuffed himself with P&J sandwiches the whole summer in order to reach 280 lbs.:eek:


.

PB&J's all summer? he shoulda started at age 1 like Andre Smith and he woulda been ready to go.

georgiafan
11-14-2008, 05:45 PM
Sturdivant is a future top-15 pick. People are really overlooking the loss of him this year to Georgia.

No doubt he was playing as good as any OT in the SEC last year as a true freshman including Smith and Oher. It's no coincidence that Moreno ran to the left a ton last year. Just go back and look at the UF highlights and he dominated the DE which I belive was Derick Harvey. Sturdivant played at around 270 and was up over 300 before he got hurt.

Geason Noceur
11-14-2008, 11:17 PM
PB&J's all summer? he shoulda started at age 1 like Andre Smith and he woulda been ready to go.

I guess you missed the part where I mentioned that he played TE in high school.

whayes5
11-15-2008, 12:11 AM
I don't think there is a quarterback worth a first round pick this year. I think stafford is over rated. If bradford declared I think he's a better quarterback but still too rough around the edges and needs one more year in college. I also don't understand why Chase Coffman isn't talked about being in the first rd. Its not even that I'm saying that because I'm an MU fan. He's just a beast with good hands and very athletic.

STARHEATHER
11-15-2008, 12:26 AM
hes the throwing the football well at the moment. he has holes and needs time to develop and a decent team around him. i think he can be a serviceable to slightly above average nfl qb. its worthy of a rd 1 pick

Menardo75
11-15-2008, 12:59 AM
If Stafford reaches his full potential in the NFL he will be a top 5 top 6 QB imo.

georgiafan
11-15-2008, 03:37 PM
A solid day for Stafford, I still don't know why we continue to throw fades in the redzone. Another game winning TD drive by Stafford late in the 4th quarter. The OL still isn't opening up alot of holes.

Babylon
11-15-2008, 03:45 PM
A solid day for Stafford, I still don't know why we continue to throw fades in the redzone. Another game winning TD drive by Stafford late in the 4th quarter. The OL still isn't opening up alot of holes.

Ho-hum day for Stafford 60% 2td, no picks. Nice numbers for Knowshon. 6ypc. Somehow they're 9-2 with all their flaws.

georgiafan
11-15-2008, 04:06 PM
Ho-hum day for Stafford 60% 2td, no picks. Nice numbers for Knowshon. 6ypc. Somehow they're 9-2 with all their flaws.

Moreno was lucky to once agian get off to a hot start with a lot of rushing yards in the first two drives. Because after that he didn't have hardly any running room. He did have a a good day receiving. Once agian half of his incomplete passes came on deep passes.

I wish UGA had a TE because thats hurting us in the redzone. The TE is having to stay in and help block. Only 8 catches all year by the TE's. Anyone that says Stafford doesn't make the players around him better hasn't been watching the games. UGA isn't even closing to being a top 10 this year if you throw records out the window.

Halsey
11-15-2008, 04:56 PM
I don't think there is a quarterback worth a first round pick this year. I think stafford is over rated. If bradford declared I think he's a better quarterback but still too rough around the edges and needs one more year in college. I also don't understand why Chase Coffman isn't talked about being in the first rd. Its not even that I'm saying that because I'm an MU fan. He's just a beast with good hands and very athletic.

I think many fans have become afraid of QB's. People rememeber QB busts and have this idea that other positions don't bust. Last year many people didn't think Ryan and Flacco were worth where they got chosen. You could argue now that they would go #1 and #2 if there was a redraft.

Babylon
11-15-2008, 05:35 PM
I think many fans have become afraid of QB's. People rememeber QB busts and have this idea that other positions don't bust. Last year many people didn't think Ryan and Flacco were worth where they got chosen. You could argue now that they would go #1 and #2 if there was a redraft.


Good point, i think where people get scared is when they think teams are reaching for QBs. It's such an important position to a football team i think you have to jump on the good ones. As for Stafford i honestly don't know how you could pass on this guy unless maybe if you're the Raiders or the Bengals and are set at that spot.

Habibi
11-15-2008, 05:51 PM
A solid day for Stafford, I still don't know why we continue to throw fades in the redzone. Another game winning TD drive by Stafford late in the 4th quarter. The OL still isn't opening up alot of holes.

Another overlooked aspect. He's had numerous game-winning drives as Georgia's QB. They have the best 3rd down conversion percentage in the entire SEC. They also have the highest percentage of scoring drives in the SEC. This is why Stafford special, not because he can throw for 350 yards against sub-par defenses in a gimmick offense.

georgiafan
11-16-2008, 12:05 AM
Another overlooked aspect. He's had numerous game-winning drives as Georgia's QB. They have the best 3rd down conversion percentage in the entire SEC. They also have the highest percentage of scoring drives in the SEC. This is why Stafford special, not because he can throw for 350 yards against sub-par defenses in a gimmick offense.

And they lead the SEC in yards (atleast before the week) despite only 3 junior/seniors starting on offense (staff,mass, chandler). Don't you know it's all about stats when people view QB's :rolleyes:

Solomon
11-16-2008, 12:23 PM
And they lead the SEC in yards (atleast before the week) despite only 3 junior/seniors starting on offense (staff,mass, chandler). Don't you know it's all about stats when people view QB's :rolleyes:

Here's the funny thing. Seems like everyone who criticizes Stafford on this board points to his statistics. Even if it was just all about stats Stafford would still be in some very impressive company when compared with the other franchise signal callers to come out of the SEC within the last 12 years.

Name, class and season: Comp%-passing yards-passing TDs-Ints-YPA
Matt Stafford, 2008 junior season: 61.0-3057-19-9-8.95
Peyton Manning, 1996 junior season: 63.9-3287-20-12-8.65
Eli Manning, 2002 junior season: 58.0-3401-21-15-7.07
Jay Cutler, 2004 junior season: 61.0-1844-10-5-7.65
Jay Cutler, 2005 senior season: 59.1-3073-21-9-6.65

Note: I included Cutler's senior year because he wasn't considered a frachise type QB after his junior year unlike the other three. Also Stafford's stats are what he is on pace for with another game left in the regular season. Eli's stats include his bowl game in 2003, so he has 13 games in total.

Stafford's junior seasons are just as good statistically as the Manning's, and they were both widely considered to be top 5 selections if they came out as underclassmen. Also his junior season is comparable to Cutler's senior season.

Race for the Heisman
11-16-2008, 02:31 PM
I always thought if Stafford could complete 60% of his passes and improve his TD:INT ratio a bit he would have answered the biggest questions you can have about him. The fact that he's done that shows that he is still progressing and will likely continue to do so, whether in his senior season or his rookie year and beyond in the NFL. Combine that with his physical tools and he merits a top 10 selection. I'm still not ready to say top 5 or top 1, but I feel okay saying top 10. Funnily enough, that's about the same way I felt about Matt Ryan.

illmatic74
11-16-2008, 02:48 PM
Here's the funny thing. Seems like everyone who criticizes Stafford on this board points to his statistics. Even if it was just all about stats Stafford would still be in some very impressive company when compared with the other franchise signal callers to come out of the SEC within the last 12 years.

Name, class and season: Comp%-passing yards-passing TDs-Ints-YPA
Matt Stafford, 2008 junior season: 61.0-3057-19-9-8.95
Peyton Manning, 1996 junior season: 63.9-3287-20-12-8.65
Eli Manning, 2002 junior season: 58.0-3401-21-15-7.07
Jay Cutler, 2004 junior season: 61.0-1844-10-5-7.65
Jay Cutler, 2005 senior season: 59.1-3073-21-9-6.65

Note: I included Cutler's senior year because he wasn't considered a frachise type QB after his junior year unlike the other three. Also Stafford's stats are what he is on pace for with another game left in the regular season. Eli's stats include his bowl game in 2003, so he has 13 games in total.

Stafford's junior seasons are just as good statistically as the Manning's, and they were both widely considered to be top 5 selections if they came out as underclassmen. Also his junior season is comparable to Cutler's senior season.Once Again
Petyon Manning Sophmore Season 244-380 64.2% 2954yds 22tds 4ints
Eli Manning Sophmore Season 259-408 63.5% 2948yds 31tds 9ints
Matthew Staford Sophmore Season 194-348 55.7% 2523yds 19tds 10ints
For the Mannings their junior seasons were down years.Since
Peyton Manning Senior Season 287-477 60.37% 3819yds 37tds 11ints
Eli Manning Senior Season 275-441 62.9% 3600yds 29tds 10ints

Geason Noceur
11-16-2008, 05:48 PM
Once Again
Petyon Manning Sophmore Season 244-380 64.2% 2954yds 22tds 4ints
Eli Manning Sophmore Season 259-408 63.5% 2948yds 31tds 9ints
Matthew Staford Sophmore Season 194-348 55.7% 2523yds 19tds 10ints
For the Mannings their junior seasons were down years.Since
Peyton Manning Senior Season 287-477 60.37% 3819yds 37tds 11ints
Eli Manning Senior Season 275-441 62.9% 3600yds 29tds 10ints

One thing I've noticed about Stafford is that no matter what, the guy just keep improving from season to season. You don't see him regress like many other QBs even if he has a young O-line, mediocre WRs, butterfingered TE's, tough schedule, etc. His O-line has gotten younger every year he has been at Georgia, and his numbers have improved each year.

Some of these college QBs that are putting video game numbers have probably hit their celings in my opinion. I very much doubt they'll get 80% completion percentages on a consistent basis in the pros unless you draft their entire O-lines. Stafford still needs polishing in some areas, but every game you can see flashes of what he'll become is he keeps his improving trend. I think he can become an excellent QB in a few years if a team puts the right dedication into providing him with at least a serviceable supporting cast.

Babylon
11-16-2008, 06:16 PM
One thing I've noticed about Stafford is that no matter what, the guy just keep improving from season to season. You don't see him regress like many other QBs even if he has a young O-line, mediocre WRs, butterfingered TE's, tough schedule, etc. His O-line has gotten younger every year he has been at Georgia, and his numbers have improved each year.

Some of these college QBs that are putting video game numbers have probably hit their celings in my opinion. I very much doubt they'll get 80% completion percentages on a consistent basis in the pros unless you draft their entire O-lines. Stafford still needs polishing in some areas, but every game you can see flashes of what he'll become is he keeps his improving trend. I think he can become an excellent QB in a few years if a team puts the right dedication into providing him with at least a serviceable supporting cast.


Good call, he's still 20 years old so he could come in and sit for a year and learn the pro game before he's thrown to the wolves. Looking now like Detroit so i wouldnt want to wish that on him but might as well come out and be that much closer to free agency.

Habibi
11-16-2008, 06:38 PM
Good call, he's still 20 years old so he could come in and sit for a year and learn the pro game before he's thrown to the wolves. Looking now like Detroit so i wouldnt want to wish that on him but might as well come out and be that much closer to free agency.

I'd absolutely hate it if Detroit drafted him. It would be a complete waste of talent. No one can thrive in that dark hole singularity they have going on over there.

Hopefully he'll go to the 49ers.

Babylon
11-16-2008, 07:09 PM
I'd absolutely hate it if Detroit drafted him. It would be a complete waste of talent. No one can thrive in that dark hole singularity they have going on over there.

Hopefully he'll go to the 49ers.

I guess i could make a dark hole comment about the Niners but i know what you mean. I remember Elway didnt want to go to the Colts and Eli didnt want to go to San Diego so maybe Stafford could pull some sort of power play and end up with a good team. The one thing he could have in Detroit is a potential great receiver in Calvin Johnson and they have 3 of the top 33 picks so they could get an influx of talent there.

Geason Noceur
11-16-2008, 08:22 PM
I'd absolutely hate it if Detroit drafted him. It would be a complete waste of talent. No one can thrive in that dark hole singularity they have going on over there.

Hopefully he'll go to the 49ers.

The reason why Detroit is a dark hole is because they never have the guts to draft a franchise QB. All they draft are WRs. Who the heck is going get the most of those WRs with awful QBs throwing to them.

The Lions need to get a franchise QB and use the rest of the draft to shore up the O-line. Let the rookie back up the mediocre QBs that they have for a year while he learns and the O-line gells. It will take a couple more drafts to plug all the holes, but at least they'll be headed in the right direction.

Check this out. In 1958 the Lions shunned the last Highland Park QB (Bobby Layne) that they had, and he put a 50 year curse on them. They've sucked ever since. Maybe it's time for them to atone by drafting another HP QB exactly 50 years later. Coincidence? ;)

d34ng3l021
11-16-2008, 08:26 PM
I guess i could make a dark hole comment about the Niners but i know what you mean. I remember Elway didnt want to go to the Colts and Eli didnt want to go to San Diego so maybe Stafford could pull some sort of power play and end up with a good team. The one thing he could have in Detroit is a potential great receiver in Calvin Johnson and they have 3 of the top 33 picks so they could get an influx of talent there.

I agree. Take Stafford with the first pick. Use the next 2 picks to trade up and get the LT that falls (Michael Oher, Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith, others?).

Similar situation to the Falcons it seems.

Mr. Offseason
11-16-2008, 08:38 PM
stafford, jason smith and maybe a pass rusher (out of orakpo, mj, hardy, brown, selvie... one of them is bound to slide out of round 1) with #33. thatd be a pretty good first 2 rounds for the lions imo.

Habibi
11-16-2008, 08:51 PM
I guess i could make a dark hole comment about the Niners but i know what you mean. I remember Elway didnt want to go to the Colts and Eli didnt want to go to San Diego so maybe Stafford could pull some sort of power play and end up with a good team. The one thing he could have in Detroit is a potential great receiver in Calvin Johnson and they have 3 of the top 33 picks so they could get an influx of talent there.

San Francisco the dark hole Detroit is? Are you joking?

Solomon
11-16-2008, 09:46 PM
The reason why Detroit is a dark hole is because they never have the guts to draft a franchise QB. All they draft are WRs. Who the heck is going get the most of those WRs with awful QBs throwing to them.

The Lions need to get a franchise QB and use the rest of the draft to shore up the O-line. Let the rookie back up the mediocre QBs that they have for a year while he learns and the O-line gells. It will take a couple more drafts to plug all the holes, but at least they'll be headed in the right direction.

Check this out. In 1958 the Lions shunned the last Highland Park QB (Bobby Layne) that they had, and he put a 50 year curse on them. They've sucked ever since. Maybe it's time for them to atone by drafting another HP QB exactly 50 years later. Coincidence? ;)

Never have the guts to draft a "franchise QB"? Harrington was considered a franchise QB when he came out. I think they should start playing Stanton and Orlavsky right now to see if they are legit. If they really believe that Stafford or Bradford are fantastic prospects, then sure they should take them #1. If they're not convinced they should start building the rest of that team with the BPA mentality. Stop reaching for players in order to fit a system when they have so many holes and a weak talent pool.

P.S, If they drafted Stafford or Bradford it would be exactly 51 years later :)

Geason Noceur
11-16-2008, 10:23 PM
P.S, If they drafted Stafford or Bradford it would be exactly 51 years later :)

Bobby Layne was traded during the season so I guess the curse might not end until the season is actually over. It sure seems like it by the way the Lions' season is going.:D

By the way, here's a good article about the curse (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081002/OPINION03/810020385&imw=Y). I thought the Harrington mention towards the end was fitting with the Lions' miserable luck.

Babylon
11-16-2008, 10:40 PM
I agree. Take Stafford with the first pick. Use the next 2 picks to trade up and get the LT that falls (Michael Oher, Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith, others?).

Similar situation to the Falcons it seems.


The Falcons didnt trade up as high as it would take to get one of those 3 OL though. The Lions could really make some noise, not sure the picks they have after round 1 but they could have a great draft if they play their cards right. Thing is they haven't shown they are capable of that.

You really could go in several directions there because they need so much, whether it's QB,OL and DE or QB, LB,TE they need a lot.

illmatic74
11-16-2008, 11:24 PM
Stafford to Calvin Johnson would be nice.

georgiafan
11-17-2008, 07:47 AM
Remember the lions have a extra 1st round pick from Dallas

ThEvIcTR
11-17-2008, 05:42 PM
No point in drafting a quarterback when you look at the lions offensive line. I've liked what I have been seeing from Gosder on the right side. I think the lions have to go with Andre Smith with the first over all pick. Backus has to be moved to left guard, I know his contract is ridiculous but it has to be done.

with the pick that the cowboys have given the lions I hope the lions pick up Hardy or that ******* ***** ass linebacker from OSU.

Second round give me a run stuffer like Terrance Taylor. Or somehow hope that Alfonso Smith falls.

P-L
11-17-2008, 05:47 PM
Second round give me a run stuffer like Terrance Taylor. Or somehow hope that Alfonso Smith falls.
Terrence Taylor will probably still be on the board when we pick in the 5th Round. He'll easily still be around in the 3rd.

Babylon
11-17-2008, 06:08 PM
with the pick that the cowboys have given the lions I hope the lions pick up Hardy or that ******* ***** ass linebacker from OSU.

Marcus Freeman?