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Vox Populi
11-03-2008, 09:07 PM
I was meaning to post this yesterday, but this guy is money, I haven't seen all of his games, but I've seen him 3 times this year and have been extremely impressed. I'd say he is definitely a top 5 corner in the league right now and at the very least in the discussion at this point. How come this guy still isn't getting the credit he deserves? It seems like everyone on the Titans other than Chris Johnson, Kerry Collins and Albert Haynesworth is under rated, but Finnegan more so than anyone else. The Titans are getting amazing play out of him at a ridiculous bargain with him only making 17 million over the next 4 years compared to some other contracts

yourfavestoner
11-03-2008, 09:12 PM
I remember saying last season that the Titans had an absolute baller on their hands in Finnegan. He's basically the reason Pacman was expendable.

BuddyCHRIST
11-03-2008, 09:13 PM
he's top 5 in my list for sure, he's a playmaker too. Not to mention he's from my hometown.

scottyboy
11-03-2008, 09:14 PM
Kerry Collins is under rated? WHAT!?! there are so many things i could say to that, but I'm tired and will wait til the morning to go on an expletive filled, anti-Kerry Collins rant; which will surely involve his drunkeness, his suckiness, his picking his nose on camera before the super bowl, his ineptitude as a QB and person, his ability to bring hope and take it away slowly but surely, strangling it to a slow, painful, terrible depth, his complete terrible-ness, and my overal general hate for him.

BeerBaron
11-03-2008, 09:14 PM
I don't think he's still on his rookie contract. I'm almost positive he signed an extention last year.....can't be anywhere near where he's worth now, but I'm pretty sure he was resigned.

Vox Populi
11-03-2008, 09:16 PM
Kerry Collins is under rated? WHAT!?! there are so many things i could say to that, but I'm tired and will wait til the morning to go on an expletive filled, anti-Kerry Collins rant; which will surely involve his drunkeness, his suckiness, his picking his nose on camera before the super bowl, his ineptitude as a QB and person, his ability to bring hope and take it away slowly but surely, strangling it to a slow, painful, terrible depth, his complete terrible-ness, and my overal general hate for him.

Thanks for skipping a few words... you really are tired


I don't think he's still on his rookie contract. I'm almost positive he signed an extention last year.....can't be anywhere near where he's worth now, but I'm pretty sure he was resigned.

This is true, he actually is signed through 2011 for 17 million. My bad.

Vox Populi
11-03-2008, 09:17 PM
double post :(

619
11-03-2008, 09:25 PM
Not bad at all for a seventh rounder. Add in some ball skills which he is slowly beginning to develop as evident by his 4 INTs this year and you got yourself a pro bowl corner for a long while.

jetsfan0099
11-03-2008, 09:33 PM
Finnegan gets a lot of love actually.

Top 5 CBs in no order

Aso,Revis, Finnegan, Woodson, ?????

TimD
11-03-2008, 09:35 PM
lol revis top 5? definitely good but come on man... and your forgetting champ bailey haha


anyways i think revis could be top 10 but top 5 i cant see it... he is great tho

CroomDawgs
11-03-2008, 09:41 PM
Revis is good, but top 5? No.

Finnegan is very good but he's quite a hot head he's taken some really stupid personal fouls, not to mention that fight with bulluck, which i thought was funny Bulluck looked like the bully i nthe playground and Finnegan was the smartass who called his momma fat.

Vox Populi
11-03-2008, 09:45 PM
Yeah, hes also got a DUI from back in '06, so he's not got the best head on his shoulders, but its still an easy step up from Pacman

jetsfan0099
11-03-2008, 09:57 PM
Anyone that has watched this year will say Revis is top 5. Without a question he has emerged as one of the best CBs in football. Even ESPN was saying that and they usually never give Jets players credit. The guy shuts down top WRs week in and week out, hes a great tackler, he can blitz, he blankets WRs, has 4 INTs 2 game sealing INTs. What more does he have to do? This is the next GREAT CB, hes only a 2nd year player. What he is doing is unreal for a guy his age.



Bailey this year has not been impressive, and he is injured. I am going off of this year, past years are not taken into consideration here.

Hawk
11-03-2008, 10:00 PM
All I can remember is Greg Jennings beating him.

stephenson86
11-03-2008, 10:04 PM
i think he would of beaten most CB's with that, jennings is easily one of the best after the catch if you give him space

tjsunstein
11-03-2008, 10:12 PM
Top of the Position:
Champ Bailey
Aso
Woodson
Asante Samuel
Al Harris
Finnegan
Revis

The 'What Happened' aka Prevously Overhyped Players:
Nate Clements
Antonio Cromartie
Rashean Mathis
D. Hall
Terrence Newman

jetsfan0099
11-03-2008, 10:13 PM
Top of the Position:
Champ Bailey
Aso
Woodson
Asante Samuel
Al Harris
Finnegan
Revis

The 'What Happened' aka Prevously Overhyped Players:
Nate Clements
Antonio Cromartie
Rashean Mathis
D. Hall
Terrence Newman

Al Harris is not a top of the line CB.

Toneloc498
11-03-2008, 10:16 PM
Revis is damn good but im not sure if hes top 5 yet, he will get there but I dont think hes quite there yet, if hes not there hes gotta be at 6. Some other guys in the top 10 should be Asante Samuel, Corey Webster, Cromartie (although he has been getting burned latley). These guys are not quite in top 5 but close enough

tjsunstein
11-03-2008, 10:24 PM
Al Harris is not a top of the line CB.

Barring injury, Yes he is..

BeerBaron
11-03-2008, 10:27 PM
Al Harris is not a top of the line CB.

Check his avy. ;)

By that logic Tillman and Vasher are godly in the Cover 2......

tjsunstein
11-03-2008, 10:32 PM
Top of the Position:
Champ Bailey
Aso
Woodson
Asante Samuel
Al Harris
Finnegan
Revis

The 'What Happened' aka Prevously Overhyped Players:
Nate Clements
Antonio Cromartie
Rashean Mathis
D. Hall
Terrence Newman

Check his avy. ;)

By that logic Tillman and Vasher are godly in the Cover 2......

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/2733/simp2006homerarmscrosseyf4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/simp2006homerarmscrosseyf4.jpg/1/w346.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img380/simp2006homerarmscrosseyf4.jpg/1/)

But seriously, Al Harris is top 10.

jetsfan0099
11-03-2008, 10:38 PM
I think Woodson is top 5 this year though, he is having a very good season.

Malaka
11-03-2008, 10:39 PM
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/2733/simp2006homerarmscrosseyf4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/simp2006homerarmscrosseyf4.jpg/1/w346.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img380/simp2006homerarmscrosseyf4.jpg/1/)

But seriously, Al Harris is top 10.

Ehhhhh, nooooo.... unfortunately not anymore, Woodson is in my top 5 however, but Al Harris has been on the decline, he is best known as a press corner but uh
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0120/nfl_u_burress_580.jpg
begs to differ. He is aging he is on the way down, and the injuries only hurt him more when he plays. Harris has really lost a step a few years back most definitely he was a top ten corner now... not so much, I mean don't call someone else a homer because I think you are being one right now.

jetsfan0099
11-03-2008, 10:39 PM
Revis is damn good but im not sure if hes top 5 yet, he will get there but I dont think hes quite there yet, if hes not there hes gotta be at 6. Some other guys in the top 10 should be Asante Samuel, Corey Webster, Cromartie (although he has been getting burned latley). These guys are not quite in top 5 but close enough

I understand of being afraid to put Revis top 5 because hes a 2nd year player, but if we are going off of this years play. Revis has been one of the best CB this year.

Staubach12
11-03-2008, 10:55 PM
Finny is ridiculous. He's one of the best up-and-comers at CB. Love watching him play.

illmatic74
11-03-2008, 10:56 PM
Nate Clements is not overhyped and throw in Carlos Rogers and Leigh Bodden

Menardo75
11-03-2008, 10:59 PM
The 'What Happened' aka Prevously Overhyped Players:
Nate Clements

Nate has been a very good shutdown corner. People not throwing at him, and him being on a bad team have taken away from his credit.

tjsunstein
11-03-2008, 11:07 PM
Ehhhhh, nooooo.... unfortunately not anymore, Woodson is in my top 5 however, but Al Harris has been on the decline, he is best known as a press corner but uh
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0120/nfl_u_burress_580.jpg
begs to differ. He is aging he is on the way down, and the injuries only hurt him more when he plays. Harris has really lost a step a few years back most definitely he was a top ten corner now... not so much, I mean don't call someone else a homer because I think you are being one right now.
Obviously if I highlighted the two packers on my list as well as the bears he mentioned. It's all in good fun. Although Al Harris has been on the decline, don't discount him as top ten. Plaxico is a hell of an athlete, ask Asante Samuel. Harris had trouble vs. T.O. last year as well as he struggles against the faster reciever but if he gets the leverage he needs on the bump and run like he does most of the time, I'll take him top ten CBs.


Nate Clements is not overhyped and throw in Carlos Rogers and Leigh Bodden
I was referring to Nate Clements not being on anyone's list at this point because he was the buzz at the position some time ago. Hence the What Happened title... I will not throw in Rogers and Bodden just yet.

giantsfan
11-03-2008, 11:57 PM
Corey Webster is a top 10 cornerback, no homer.

As for Finnegan he's been a beast and is also a top 10 corner, just not sure about top five, he's got a case, but so do a lot of guys.

The Legend
11-04-2008, 01:19 AM
This Year

Charles Woodson
21 Tackles 16 Deflections 4 Interceptions 115 Yards 2 Touchdowns 1 Sack

Cortland Finnegan
43 Tackles 16 Deflections 4 Interceptions 100 Yards 1 Touchdowns

Darrelle Revis
28 Tackles 13 Deflections 4 Interceptions 32 Yards 1 Touchdowns 1 Forced 1 Recovered

Asante Samuel
19 Tackles 17 Deflections 3 Interceptions 14 Yards

Corey Webster
24 Tackles 15 Deflections 3 Interceptions 65 Yards 1 Force Fumble 1 Sack

TitanHope
11-04-2008, 01:46 AM
Finny's tenacity and temperment is what Titans fans love about him! He'll make a stupid decision now and then, but many times he riles up opponents into making the mistake.

Along with Finny's coverage, he's also a sure tackler as The Legend's statistics point out. He's 3rd on the team in solo tackles. Last season he had 79 solo's and 95 total, which was second on the team in both categories.

Finny was a 7th RD pick, and doesn't have the raw ability like Cromartie, Revis, and other young CB's like them. So it's harder for him to work his way into the Top 5 discussion.

But, from an all around stand point, Finny's one of the best.

yourfavestoner
11-04-2008, 02:09 AM
Finny's tenacity and temperment is what Titans fans love about him! He'll make a stupid decision now and then, but many times he riles up opponents into making the mistake.

Along with Finny's coverage, he's also a sure tackler as The Legend's statistics point out. He's 3rd on the team in solo tackles. Last season he had 79 solo's and 95 total, which was second on the team in both categories.

Finny was a 7th RD pick, and doesn't have the raw ability like Cromartie, Revis, and other young CB's like them. So it's harder for him to work his way into the Top 5 discussion.

But, from an all around stand point, Finny's one of the best.

In the coaching world, he is what we call a scrappy son of a *****.

Menardo75
11-04-2008, 02:13 AM
He is for sure a top ten corner this year. On the right track for a top five corner, too early for that though.

Rayray52
11-04-2008, 10:35 AM
I remember watching a Titans preseason game in 2006 and he was just flying around the field making plays everywhere he was raw back then but it seems like hes putting it all together this year

giantsfan
11-04-2008, 10:41 AM
This Year

Charles Woodson
21 Tackles 16 Deflections 4 Interceptions 115 Yards 2 Touchdowns 1 Sack

Cortland Finnegan
43 Tackles 16 Deflections 4 Interceptions 100 Yards 1 Touchdowns

Darrelle Revis
28 Tackles 13 Deflections 4 Interceptions 32 Yards 1 Touchdowns 1 Forced 1 Recovered

Asante Samuel
19 Tackles 17 Deflections 3 Interceptions 14 Yards

Corey Webster
24 Tackles 15 Deflections 3 Interceptions 65 Yards 1 Force Fumble 1 Sack

I've always found it weird how despite the pressure we get NYG DBs never come up with a lot of INTs, even Webster who as a former wide receiver does a great job in the air at locating the ball and has pretty good hands doesn't really come down with many.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
11-04-2008, 11:12 AM
Don't have time to elaborate at the moment, but even though i usually try to limit the public affection of myself and other Jets fans on the main board, I stand by Revis fully in this discussion. His play speaks for itself. I'd put him right at 5 i think. I will make a list when i'm not at work to justify.

I will say that is nice to see the certain overhyped players not getting the pub based on name or highlight plays alone. Cromartie hasn't been anything this year. I can't force myself to watch many Oakland games, but Aso has been top drawer in the 2 games i saw, whereas Hall has been lackluster (one game was against Royal, so may be biased), his stats certainly seem inflated. Bailey needs to stay on the field (not overrated, but you need to be on the field).
Good to see Webster, Cortland, and Rogers get talked about. Give some of these guys better hands and the pub would increase, but unfortunately some of the have Braylon Edwards syndrom

bigbluedefense
11-04-2008, 11:21 AM
Im inclined not to put him in any top 5 list, bc the Titans run so much zone and Cover 2, he's more of a Tampa 2 CB than a man coverage CB.

He's good, he's real good, but its unfair to compare him to another CB who's left on an island all the time.

TitanHope
11-04-2008, 11:36 AM
The Titans run a lot of man coverage, and Finny sticks to receivers like glue. So much that I didn't think they ran a Cover 2. And Finny is left alone against WR's frequently, and wins most of the time. Sorry BBD, but I gotsta contest with your post. He does play in a Cover 2, but the scheme is not Tampa style and is quite unique. Jim Schwartz knows what his players' strengths are, and utilizes them accordingly. Finny is overly physical, and plays press coverage frequently. They play zone mostly on running downs or when they have a comfortable lead and may be in prevent. Other than that, Finny's on man and is defending receivers just as good as other CB's.

bigbluedefense
11-04-2008, 11:40 AM
The Titans run a lot of man coverage, and Finny sticks to receivers like glue. So much that I didn't think they ran a Cover 2. And Finny is left alone against WR's frequently, and wins most of the time. Sorry BBD, but I gotsta contest with your post. He does play in a Cover 2, but the scheme is not Tampa style and is quite unique. Jim Schwartz knows what his players' strengths are, and utilizes them accordingly. Finny is overly physical, and plays press coverage frequently. They play zone mostly on running downs or when they have a comfortable lead and may be in prevent. Other than that, Finny's on man and is defending receivers just as good as other CB's.

youre probably right. my view of that Titans D has been very limited. i need to see more gametape. of the games i saw, thats what i observed, but i could be wrong.

Thigamahjigee
11-04-2008, 04:40 PM
Finnegan isn't top 5. That's for sure. He's a very good player at this point, and might be there soon however.

Jimmy
11-04-2008, 05:40 PM
Finnegan isn't top 5. That's for sure. He's a very good player at this point, and might be there soon however.

i'd have to agree, he's a great corner, give him another 6-8 weeks to further prove himself.

PACKmanN
11-04-2008, 06:27 PM
Ehhhhh, nooooo.... unfortunately not anymore, Woodson is in my top 5 however, but Al Harris has been on the decline, he is best known as a press corner but uh
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0120/nfl_u_burress_580.jpg
begs to differ. He is aging he is on the way down, and the injuries only hurt him more when he plays. Harris has really lost a step a few years back most definitely he was a top ten corner now... not so much, I mean don't call someone else a homer because I think you are being one right now.

well then I guess the Redskins secondary is weak even though they shutdown Owens. Every CB has a bad game, Harris had a bad one on National TV, thats why everyone so quick to comment on him.

ShutDwn
11-04-2008, 06:38 PM
This Year

Charles Woodson
21 Tackles 16 Deflections 4 Interceptions 115 Yards 2 Touchdowns 1 Sack

Cortland Finnegan
43 Tackles 16 Deflections 4 Interceptions 100 Yards 1 Touchdowns

Darrelle Revis
28 Tackles 13 Deflections 4 Interceptions 32 Yards 1 Touchdowns 1 Forced 1 Recovered

Asante Samuel
19 Tackles 17 Deflections 3 Interceptions 14 Yards

Corey Webster
24 Tackles 15 Deflections 3 Interceptions 65 Yards 1 Force Fumble 1 Sack

4 out of 5 of those guys play on teams who are in the top 6 in sacks (Packers are 21st). Not saying they aren't as good, I love most of them especially Asante and Finnegan, but I don't think you know a cornerback until they have to play with an average or below average pass rush.

CroomDawgs
11-04-2008, 09:54 PM
A guy who's being overlooked IMO because his team is terrible is Marcus Trufant, he's played with a broken hand all year and according to rotoworld he's only been beat in man coverage 3 times. Although one was a long td by greg jennings.

Number 10
11-04-2008, 10:29 PM
I broke down the Titans D yesterday and I will firmly say there isn't a CB in the league that plays the run the way Finnegan does, not even Winfield. That means a lot when I grade out CBs.

His man coverage skills are off the charts, very few corners move their hips the way Finnegan does and his speed is top notch. He has the ball skills and the smarts, COD ability...and on top of that he has the mindset of a shutdown corner.

Could i come up with 5 corners that are clearly better than him? Probably not but I think he is in the mix of probably 5-8 guys behind the likes of Asomugha and Bailey.

tjsunstein
11-04-2008, 10:46 PM
A guy who's being overlooked IMO because his team is terrible is Marcus Trufant, he's played with a broken hand all year and according to rotoworld he's only been beat in man coverage 3 times. Although one was a long td by greg jennings.

True. Forgot about Trufant

The Legend
11-06-2008, 12:08 AM
I'm wondering do you guys think Nnamdi Asomugha will stay?

Asomugha on Hall - http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/05/the-deangelo-hall-fallout-nnamdi-asomugha-isnt-happy-demands/

Cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha met a few members of the media at a local eatery and told them to be at his locker after practice because, well, he had a few things to get off his chest. And that's exactly what he did.

"I'm obviously disappointed. I don't agree with what happened," Asomugha said. "I don't agree with what's going on. But I am just a player so I can't speak on it. I don't make the decisions. All I can do is play but I don't agree with what happened at all."

What's going to keep Nnamdi with the Raiders? I honestly think he's going to get franchise tagged this offseason and he will only sign if they cant tag him again. I think he will be with the Raiders for one more year and he's out.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:10 AM
You answered your own question. The franchise tag is what will keep him in Oakland.

Ask Charles Woodson.

The Legend
11-06-2008, 12:18 AM
You answered your own question. The franchise tag is what will keep him in Oakland.

Ask Charles Woodson.

I know but I guess what I mean is what is going to keep him around after the next year. What will make him sign a long term deal with the Raiders?

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:21 AM
I know but I guess what I mean is what is going to keep him around after the next year. What will make him sign a long term deal with the Raiders?

Nothing, if he's sane. But unfortunately for him, the Raiders don't need his approval to tag him every single year if they choose to.

Brodeur
11-06-2008, 12:22 AM
Nothing, if he's sane. But unfortunately for him, the Raiders don't need his approval to tag him every single year if they choose to.

He can just hold out if that is what it comes down to.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 12:23 AM
He can just hold out if that is what it comes down to.

he better start saving his pennies.

unfortunate, but necessary.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:24 AM
He can just hold out if that is what it comes down to.

Well of course, but he gains absolutely nothing by doing that. I think the price on the tag increases every year (of course it adjusts to the growing contract salaries), but it grows an extra percentage if it's used on the same player consecutively. I'm pretty sure that was the case with Woodson. If someone can confirm that, it would be great.

The Legend
11-06-2008, 12:29 AM
Well of course, but he gains absolutely nothing by doing that. I think the price on the tag increases every year (of course it adjusts to the growing contract salaries), but it grows an extra percentage if it's used on the same player consecutively. I'm pretty sure that was the case with Woodson. If someone can confirm that, it would be great.


his contact will be "120 percent of the player's previous year's salary" last year he got $9.8

Zyro_1014
11-06-2008, 12:29 AM
should give this guy whatever he wants...can you say lockdown?

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:30 AM
should give this guy whatever he wants...can you say lockdown?

Yeah, i can actually, what's your point?

Geo
11-06-2008, 12:34 AM
Easily the best corner in the league.

I laugh when peope say Hall of Fame for Champ Bailey, no thanks. Asomugha is much closer to the Hall, given where he is at his career, than Bailey is imo.

Oakland's best chance is to sign him to a top-dollar as well as assure him that they'll get things straight.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:35 AM
Easily the best corner in the league.

I laugh when peope say Hall of Fame for Champ Bailey, no thanks. Asomugha is much closer to the Hall, given where he is at his career, than Bailey is imo.

Oakland's best chance is to sign him to a top-dollar as well as assure him that they'll get things straight.

I think you just had another "Eli Manning is the second best quarterback in the league" moment.

Geo
11-06-2008, 12:38 AM
Bailey had a Hall of Fame-caliber, out-of-his-mind season with 2006. Then he went back to being Champ Bailey, giving up long bombs.

Thankfully he has Dre Bly and no safeties who can cover so teams don't have to remind everyone.

Zyro_1014
11-06-2008, 12:40 AM
Yeah, i can actually, what's your point?

well lets make 2 points

1) There aren't very many legit lockdown corners in the game right now and considering Aso is well.....prolly the best, he should be makin whatever he wants just about.

2) dude, you like weiners....

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:41 AM
I think he proved himself, for a long period of time, that he was one of the, if not the best cornerback in the NFL. Not everyone can sustain a Deion Sanders level of play throughout their career, but Bailey was very close for many years. To say that he isn't gonna be a HOF'er is pretty asinine.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 12:43 AM
Bailey had one phenomenal out of his mind season with 2006. Then he went back to being Champ Bailey, giving up long bombs.

No. Bailey has been that good. Denver has just been getting worse and worse on defense. His 2005 season was great. His 2004 season was great. The years next to fred smoot? He became the next definition of lock down after deion. Samuel's 2006 season was better than Champ's (by interception 'out of his mind' standards)...

I think you lost your rocker on that one. He's been the greatest corner this decade.

Geo
11-06-2008, 12:43 AM
Bailey has never accomplished the two-plus years of dominance that Asomugha is currently producing.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:44 AM
Bailey has never accomplished the two-plus years of dominance that Asomugha is currently producing.

And that means what to Bailey's legacy?

Absolutely nothing.

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 12:44 AM
2) dude, you like weiners....

duh...cowboys fan...;)

Zyro_1014
11-06-2008, 12:45 AM
duh...cowboys fan...;)

haha...no doubt!

Geo
11-06-2008, 12:45 AM
No. Bailey has been that good. Denver has just been getting worse and worse on defense. His 2005 season was great. His 2004 season was great. The years next to fred smoot? He became the next definition of lock down after deion. Samuel's 2006 season was better than Champ's (by interception 'out of his mind' standards)...

I think you lost your rocker on that one. He's been the greatest corner this decade.
Bailey's 2006 season is easily one of the three best for a cornerback in the last ten years, if not longer. I can't believe you can't appreciate it for what it was really worth.

But then he regressed to form.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:46 AM
by interception 'out of his mind' standards

Ten Characters

Geo
11-06-2008, 12:47 AM
And that means what to Bailey's legacy?

Absolutely nothing.
Just because Daunte Culpepper put up stellar numbers for a time doesn't make him truly great. Bailey was regarded as the best for a while, until some truly great players came up and passed him on the way.

At least that's my opinion. People need to remember who he was in Washington and in Denver other than in '06.

Caddy
11-06-2008, 12:48 AM
If Oakland do the 'right' thing then Aso will be allowed to test the waters. But as we all know, Al Davis and that organisation aren't exactly well renowned for making the best decisions and It won't shock me at all to see them franchise him... Again.

If he was able to make it to Free Agency without getting tagged I would love to see the type of cash he gets offered.

Geo
11-06-2008, 12:48 AM
interception numbers remark
Bailey's '06 season was much more than that. Coverage, and the fact that he made those interceptions with very limited opportunities and that those plays he came up with were crucial for his team.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:50 AM
Just because Daunte Culpepper put up stellar numbers for a time doesn't make him truly great. Bailey was regarded as the best for a while, until some truly great players came up and passed him on the way.

At least that's my opinion. People need to remember who he was in Washington and in Denver other than in '06.

You're offering contradictory statements.
two-plus years of dominance that Asomugha is currently producing.
Asomugha is much closer to the Hall,


Umm, say whaa?
In two seasons, Asomugha is closer to the Hall of Fame than a guy that has been the elite corner, and poster boy for budding CB's everywhere, over TWO seasons of play??? Pick a side, bud.

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 12:50 AM
Just because Daunte Culpepper put up stellar numbers for a time doesn't make him truly great. Bailey was regarded as the best for a while, until some truly great players came up and passed him on the way.

At least that's my opinion. People need to remember who he was in Washington and in Denver other than in '06.

He was dominant in Washington and Portis has been a beast but as a rival fan I'm still happy that the skins made that trade.

Geo
11-06-2008, 12:50 AM
If Oakland do the 'right' thing then Aso will be allowed to test the waters. But as we all know, Al Davis and that organisation aren't exactly well renowned for making the best decisions and It won't shock me at all to see them franchise him... Again.

If he was able to make it to Free Agency without getting tagged I would love to see the type of cash he gets offered.
If Oakland does the right thing, they sign Aso long-term. Money is better spent on your own guys who are proven, especially ones who are franchise worthy like Aso, than lesser free agent mercenaries for hire.

Hence kicking Hall's sorry behind out the door before another dollar could be wasted.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 12:52 AM
Bailey's '06 season was much more than that. Coverage, and the fact that he made those interceptions with very limited opportunities and that those plays he came up with were crucial for his team.

No doubt. But to say that he's living on the success of his 2006 season is ridiculous.

When you trade... CLINTON PORTIS for this guy. In a 63 million dollar. Seven year contract (in 2004 dollars/contracts), you're saying he wasn't respected as a shutdown corner or probably top 3 in the league at that time? get out.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:52 AM
If Oakland does the right thing, they sign Aso long-term. Money is better spent on your own guys who are proven, especially ones who are franchise worthy like Aso, than lesser free agent mercenaries for hire.

Hence kicking Hall's sorry behind out the door before another dollar could be wasted.

And if Aso does the right thing, he'll GTFO of Oakland in the first opportunity he gets.

Geo
11-06-2008, 12:52 AM
You're offering contradictory statements.

Umm, say whaa?
In two seasons, Asomugha is closer to the Hall of Fame than a guy that has been the elite corner, and poster boy for budding CB's everywhere, over TWO
seasons of play??? Pick a side, bud.
How hard is this to understand? Give me a break.

Asomugha has been truly great for two-plus seasons and counting so far. At this point in his career, I think he's much closer to the Hall of Fame than Bailey. I don't give a **** about Bailey's name recognition that he's built for himself, thanks partly to a lame/lesser period for cornerbacks until someone like Asomugha came up.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 12:57 AM
How hard is this to understand? Give me a break.

Asomugha has been truly great for two-plus seasons and counting so far. At this point in his career, I think he's much closer to the Hall of Fame than Bailey. I don't give a **** about Bailey's name recognition that he's built for himself, thanks partly to a lame/lesser period for cornerbacks.

LOL, what's so hard about understanding that the reason he HAS that name recognition is because he was the best at his position for years on years. No one gets to the hall of fame on two years of success. Seriously, trying to convince people that Champ Bailey is less deserving of the Hall of Fame at this point in his career when compared to Nnamdi Asomugha, is foolish.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 12:57 AM
How hard is this to understand? Give me a break.

Asomugha has been truly great for two-plus seasons and counting so far. At this point in his career, I think he's much closer to the Hall of Fame than Bailey. I don't give a **** about Bailey's name recognition that he's built for himself, thanks partly to a lame/lesser period for cornerbacks until someone like Asomugha came up.

5+ years of being the best CB in the NFL puts you under the bus of a 2+ year player?

I think our fundamental difference here is that you think that all that he did in Washington was pretty much naught.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-06-2008, 01:11 AM
No. Bailey has been that good. Denver has just been getting worse and worse on defense. His 2005 season was great. His 2004 season was great.

Just to step in here and make a point. Champ Bailey's 2004 season was awful. He was either the most or one of the most targeted cornerbacks in the NFL, and he got torched many times on the season. Granted, it was his first year in the AFC and it was a slightly new defensive scheme, but he was not anywhere near what his status would suggest.
____

Comparing Asomugha and Bailey is futile. They are very different corners with very different approaches.

Champ has always been excellent and tempting quarterbacks to throw his way and is a good enough athlete to make up that given space and get to the ball often. He is what Antonio Cromartie hopes he will eventually be. A great athlete who thrives on turnovers.

Nnamdi blankets his guy. He doesn't tempt, he doesn't bait, he doesn't try and guide the playcalling any particular way. He just stays on his guy without fail. On top of this, he has good enough hands and is strong enough that if the ball does come his way, he is very apt to make a play on it. He thrives on taking his man out of the equation competely. For all intents and purposes, he makes the game 10 on 10.

Which of these schools of cornerback play you prefer is total choice. Personally, I prefer Asomugha's because it tends to be more consistent. If you can convince the offense that throwing your way is a bad idea, they likely won't even if you get beat every once in a while. Bailey approaches getting the offense to look elsewhere by causing turnover, which can work, but will also (as we've seen) cause them to exploit his risks with some success.

I have no doubt that these two are the best at their respective games. Nnamdi took longer to get going in his career than Bailey, but from the moment he was named as starter he was a top 5 cornerback in this league, a trend I don't see ending anytime soon. Furthermore, Asomugha is going to make a fantastic free safety later in his career (where he played a lot in college).
____

As for Nnamdi Asomugh and Oakland, he's as good as gone. Even if they bind him to one more unhappy and awkward year with the team, he wants out and I can't blame him one bit. I can't express how much I respect him as a player and a person. He is my favorite player in the NFL. But he the player you want to see in big games, and that won't happen until he leaves Oakland, sadly.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 01:20 AM
i recant my statement as it should have said 2003 not 2004.

i am still tired this morning and can't read counted stat lines of how many 20+ yard plays he allowed or stuff like that. point of the matter is. he was good well before 2006.

if you want to point to this year as him being atrocious. go right ahead. considering denver's defense is nearly as good as detroit's... i'll say. go ahead.

tjsunstein
11-06-2008, 02:00 AM
Shouldnt this go under team boards..

Kurve
11-06-2008, 02:57 AM
as a raider fan .....Nnamdi deserves better then what he has taken in the last years............no contract extension last few years when he was showing the production on the field. I said it before and i said it again alot of oaklands players who give a **** week and week out to win games for the silver and black deserve to go else where (Kirk,Howard,Aso,Burgess,ect). Al Davis has ruined it for me truly did being a die hard raider fan for over 20 years growing up to my dad watching the raiders i truly can say im sick of it all. I ask my self how am i still a fan of this team!

TitanHope
11-06-2008, 03:00 AM
youre probably right. my view of that Titans D has been very limited. i need to see more gametape. of the games i saw, thats what i observed, but i could be wrong.

I'm not right. I just like to argue! :)

The Titans #1 priority is to stop the run. You'll see Finny facing the backfield every play. He has the speed and fluidity in his hips to react to run or pass in an instant. He'll backpedal while still facing the QB at the snap, which is zone as he's not facing the receiver unless it's an obvious pass play. Once he sees that it's a run, he attacks the run like no other CB in the game. Once he sees that it's a pass, his hips twist and he gets on his receiver.

Finnegan is just as fast as PacMan Jones. Whenever PacMan made a big punt return, you'd see Finnegan staying with him stride per stride. Not many people know this.

4 out of 5 of those guys play on teams who are in the top 6 in sacks (Packers are 21st). Not saying they aren't as good, I love most of them especially Asante and Finnegan, but I don't think you know a cornerback until they have to play with an average or below average pass rush.

This is an argument that may be more befitting than what defense is run. Though, I think it's misleading. Who's to say that the CB's don't assist the DL with coverage sacks? I don't think I can argue that for Samuel and Webster, as they play on blitz heavy teams.

It's also a bit unfair. What CB can cover a #1 caliber WR with a below average pass rush for an extended period of time? The game is already set up to the offense's advantage. The DL playing in front of the CB's is definitely something to factor, but we are seeing what some of these guys are capable of with the opportunities they're given. That alone is measurable. Just have to contrast the number of opportunities to the other CB's who have less chances.

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 03:06 AM
I'll acknowledge that Webster definitely benefits from our pass rush, but this season it is the improved play of our DBs that has our defense playing at such an elite level, the pass rush is still very good, but our secondary play has been huge for us this season. And for what he's asked to do Webster is certainly excelling.

yourfavestoner
11-06-2008, 03:10 AM
youre probably right. my view of that Titans D has been very limited. i need to see more gametape. of the games i saw, thats what i observed, but i could be wrong.

If I had to give their defensive scheme a comparison it would be to the Bears'. Lots of Cover 2 man, and man press.

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 03:14 AM
I'm a little sadistic but I want to see Oakland fans just become bitter and funnel all of their hatred at management. They're passionate fans and once they realize that the only thing they can root for is for management to fail so completely that they have to be removed they'll become really fun.

Bruce Banner
11-06-2008, 03:35 AM
Bring him home Bruce....bring him home.

Ok, not really his home but Bruce is the one that took a chance on him.

and LOL at him being closer to the HOF than the demi-god Bailey.

UK_Cheesehead
11-06-2008, 04:36 AM
How come there's a franchise tag? I would've thought if a player doesn't wana resign it's pretty harsh to force them to for one more year.

If Aso has any sense he'll be out of their at the first opportunity, and the way he's talking that sounds a good possibility, it's just when that opportunity comes along. He's easily in the top 2 of CB's in the league (whether 1st or 2nd is debateable) and he'd get offered some crazy money.

bored of education
11-06-2008, 06:35 AM
geo would never do that now would he njx.

Asomugha is a hell of a CB and has been one of the top 2 cbs in the last 2 years give or take a game. but to say he is greater than Champ is ludacris get out the way i got hoes in different area codes. if aso stays at this level another 5 years or so then you can argue he is this generations best cb. but cb is this best generations best cb.

Vox Populi
11-06-2008, 07:59 AM
I broke down the Titans D yesterday and I will firmly say there isn't a CB in the league that plays the run the way Finnegan does, not even Winfield. That means a lot when I grade out CBs.

His man coverage skills are off the charts, very few corners move their hips the way Finnegan does and his speed is top notch. He has the ball skills and the smarts, COD ability...and on top of that he has the mindset of a shutdown corner.

Could i come up with 5 corners that are clearly better than him? Probably not but I think he is in the mix of probably 5-8 guys behind the likes of Asomugha and Bailey.

This is exactly what I've seen from him the past 3 weeks/games (not sure if there was a bye week in there or not) and why I made this thread. Hes amazing. And to think he was a free safety for a small school in college...

stephenson86
11-06-2008, 08:05 AM
As senior, named first-team All-American by NFL Draft Report, first-team All-American by American Football Coaches Association and first-team All-OVC for third consecutive year. Started every game at free safety and led team with 98 tackles for third consecutive season and added two tackles for loss, one interception, seven passes defensed, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery. Ranked first in OVC conference with 15.1 punt return average, while returning 14 punts for 212 yards and one touchdown. Ranked second in OVC conference with 25.1 kickoff return average on 15 returns for 376 yards.

courtesy of his bio on titansonline.com

Sniper
11-06-2008, 08:22 AM
Alright, I figured we could have one thread dedicated to CBs instead of taking over individual players' threads and turning into a "my corner is better than your corner" thread.

Discuss.

http://www.michaelpwhalen.com/1998SN_01_14_WoodsonAuto.jpg

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/tim_layden/09/12/hits.new/p1_bush.jpg

Two of the best in the league this year.

bored of education
11-06-2008, 08:41 AM
Brandon Carr and Brandon Flowers are the best rookie corner back duo ever.
What do you love more Sniper, proper spelling or Sheldon Brown?

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 08:44 AM
1. Scrabble Asomugha
2. Chuck Woodson
3. Asante Samuel
4. Champ Bailey
5. Marcus Trufant
6. Corteland Finegan
7. Sheldon Brown
8. Charles Tillman
9. Darrelle Revis
10. Quentin Jammer

Splat
11-06-2008, 08:49 AM
Ty Law!!!

O wait never mind.

BlindSite
11-06-2008, 08:52 AM
Chris Gamble is probably the most underrated cornerback in the NFL right now. He's been shutdown all season and loves getting a hat in with the run game.

703SKINS202
11-06-2008, 08:56 AM
Chris Gamble is probably the most underrated cornerback in the NFL right now. He's been shutdown all season and loves getting a hat in with the run game.

I really like him a lot, I think he is a ufa in 09 I think he would be a great sleeper pickup at the corner posistion for us.

Thigamahjigee
11-06-2008, 08:56 AM
You cannot seriously have Sheldon Brown over Asomugha.

703SKINS202
11-06-2008, 09:00 AM
this guy would be a pro bowler this year if it weren't for one slight problem...

http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1833/11774702/20916711/341966335.jpg

CC.SD
11-06-2008, 09:03 AM
Chris Gamble is probably the most underrated cornerback in the NFL right now. He's been shutdown all season and loves getting a hat in with the run game.

I have to throw Quentin Jammer's hat in that ring; he beasts the run, plays blanket coverage, and has probably been the Charger's best defensive player this year. He's also nulled Randy Moss the last two times they've played. He shuts down his share of number 1s.

It's really a testament to how bad the Charger pass rush has been when I can honestly say I wouldn't trade any of the Charger's corners (Cason, Cromartie, Jammer) and yet we are ranked last against the pass.

QB's sit around all day on the Bolts and then find the guy who beat a linebacker or go after Cromartie who may just be pounding Jack Daniels before games.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 09:09 AM
You cannot seriously have Sheldon Brown over Asomugha.

He said two OF the best, not THE two best...

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 09:20 AM
The two best corners are Corey Webster and Aaron Ross, everyone knows this. Webster is shutdown and physical, while Ross beasts against the run, as a blitzer and in zone. But seriously Webster has been a monster this year, probably our best defender although Tuck could very well deserve that title as well.

Number 10
11-06-2008, 09:20 AM
Asomugha is head and shoulders above any other CB in the league, including Champ.

tjsunstein
11-06-2008, 09:22 AM
Homer thread. Nice! Al Harris and Charles Woodson is the best duo in the league right now.

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 09:24 AM
Asomugha is head and shoulders above any other CB in the league, including Champ.

Except for Kevin Dockery, he's actually two heads taller than dockery. And that's not two heads the way plax has two heads where the one is trying to make him the beast player he can be and the other one is just trying to make him say something overwhelmingly stupid. No I mean to heads on top of one another.

tjsunstein
11-06-2008, 09:25 AM
1. Aso
2. Charles Woodson
3. Champ Bailey

Everyone else.

T-RICH49
11-06-2008, 09:25 AM
Brandon Carr and Brandon Flowers are the best rookie corner back duo ever.
What do you love more Sniper, proper spelling or Sheldon Brown?


got that right.Flowers and Carr are the truth

Gay Ork Wang
11-06-2008, 09:26 AM
Champ >>>>>>> Woodson

tjsunstein
11-06-2008, 09:27 AM
1. Scrabble Asomugha
2. Chuck Woodson
3. Asante Samuel
4. Champ Bailey
5. Marcus Trufant
6. Corteland Finegan
7. Antonio Croamrtie
8. Sheldon Brown
9. Charles Tillman
10. Darrelle Revis

Wait, are you serious??

tjsunstein
11-06-2008, 09:27 AM
Champ >>>>>>> Woodson

Maybe to a non homer. :D

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 09:27 AM
Wait, are you serious??

CRO MAKEZ PLAYZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!

Gay Ork Wang
11-06-2008, 09:28 AM
Wait, are you serious??
Tillman deserves it!

Geo
11-06-2008, 09:30 AM
it's regularly shocking to me how many people think they can judge bailey based on sportscenter highlights. to suggest it's anything other than a coin flip between him and asomugha (assuming health) right now is ridiculous. but then, people thought terrence newman was like, totally the best ever at one point, so i guess there ARE dumber things you could believe.

Geo: regressed to form? oh, i get it now. you're just saying something controversial for controvery's sake.
I said it in my 07 NFL Truths, you know, before it happened. He was never going to repeat 06, everything went perfect for him as a player (I remember Eric Allen putting it in those terms and it stuck with me) such that it became an all-time season for a cornerback. Easily Top 3 for the last ten years, maybe fifteen.

He went back to being himself the next year, ie. getting occassionally beat deep by Dallas Clark and Greg Jennings and so on. Still a very good corner, as he was in Washington for a bit, but not the truly great corner imo that some make him out to be. To say he was the best corner of his era for a brief while is probably more of an indictment of that particular era, I think.

Asomugha to me is truly great. And he's been truly great since '06, he has sustained his excellence. It's unfortunate that even now there are some people only now realizing the guy, honestly I read a post saying as much mayne not two weeks ago.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 09:32 AM
Wait, are you serious??


Tillman is one of the most underrated corners in the game and he's been one of the Bears better defenders on the season when he's been healthy. He's a solid man guy his only problem is he tries being too physical and can be burned

Cromartie plays in the mold of champ Bailey where he bates u to throw and because of his athleticism he steps up and takesi t away, although he's not near champs level

Really after Finnegan theres a host of guys you could put there, I thought about Al Harris, Corey Webster, Jammer, Ike Taylor, and Ken Lucas but I went with those 4. really theres the top 6 I liek a lot then alot else haha.

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 09:35 AM
Sure cro tries to be successful doing what Bailey does but simply from his play this season it's unfair to put him in the top 10 when there are corners who actually are deserving of being ranked in the top 10, and are not just some super aggressive athlete who came up with a bunch of big plays last year but hasn't done diddle-squat this year.

Geo
11-06-2008, 09:38 AM
this guy would be a pro bowler this year if it weren't for one slight problem...
Very true on Carlos Rogers' hands, heh.

Although I've been meaning to say, Rogers is a strong consideration for Breakout player imo. It's amazing the he's recovered from a serious knee injury that wasn't going to let him play for part of this season, and beyond that has played like a Pro Bowl corner.

Par for the course for the infamous first round of the 2005 Draft, that he was taken after Adam Jones and Antrell Rolle.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 09:40 AM
Sure cro tries to be successful doing what Bailey does but simply from his play this season it's unfair to put him in the top 10 when there are corners who actually are deserving of being ranked in the top 10, and are not just some super aggressive athlete who came up with a bunch of big plays last year but hasn't done diddle-squat this year.

This is true, but, and this may be just me, I take a more than just this season and throw in past years when I make my rankings. If it was based off this year, Cromartie and Bailey wouldn't sniff this list.

SuperKevin
11-06-2008, 09:41 AM
1. Scrabble Asomugha
2. Chuck Woodson
3. Asante Samuel
4. Champ Bailey
5. Marcus Trufant
6. Corteland Finegan
7. Antonio Croamrtie
8. Sheldon Brown
9. Charles Tillman
10. Darrelle Revis

Putting Cromartie on that list right now is a joke. He's been garbage this year and is proving last year may have been a fluke. Quentin Jammer is by far the better corner of the two

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 09:44 AM
I think I'll back off the support cromartie bandwagon for now, replace him with Jammer/lucas/webster/Harris

Sniper
11-06-2008, 09:47 AM
Brandon Carr and Brandon Flowers are the best rookie corner back duo ever.
What do you love more Sniper, proper spelling or Sheldon Brown?

This year? Sheldon Brown. Throwing at him is an exercise in futility.

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 09:47 AM
This is true, but, and this may be just me, I take a more than just this season and throw in past years when I make my rankings. If it was based off this year, Cromartie and Bailey wouldn't sniff this list.

BUt Cro really doesn't have much of a past to go off of. I'd understand if he was an elite corner for a few seasons and then had a down season when his team lost their best defender and pass rusher, but cro has had one good season and one hugely mediocre season, so far at least.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 09:48 AM
BUt Cro really doesn't have much of a past to go off of. I'd understand if he was an elite corner for a few seasons and then had a down season when his team lost their best defender and pass rusher, but cro has had one good season and one hugely mediocre season, so far at least.


I admit i'm putting too much stock into his one season, so therefore i will drop him.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 09:50 AM
1. Scrabble Asomugha
2. Chuck Woodson
3. Asante Samuel
4. Champ Bailey
5. Marcus Trufant
6. Corteland Finegan
7. Sheldon Brown
8. Charles Tillman
9. Darrelle Revis
10. Quentin Jammer

My new list

Sniper
11-06-2008, 09:53 AM
You cannot seriously have Sheldon Brown over Asomugha.

I don't. I said two OF the best, not the two best.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 09:58 AM
I think its better if I worded it this way:

Tier 1 Corner:
Scrabble Asomugha

Tier 2 Corners:
Chuck Woodson
Asante Samuel
Champ Bailey
Marcus Trufant
Corteland Finnegan
Darrelle Revis

Tier 3:
Shelden Brown
Charles Tillman
Quentin jammer
ken Lucas
Corey Webster
Al Harris
Ike Taylor
Terrence Newman
Antoine Winfield
Rashean Mathis


The Tier 3 guys u could put in that 7-10 range IMO.

619
11-06-2008, 10:10 AM
For all the pub CB gets for his '06 season Aso's was pretty darn good as well though I am not saying it was as great. Now Aso's '07 season is one I believe could rival any of the last decade despite the lack of big play ability for obvious reasons. He was thrown at less than any defender in the last ten years that season.

Where I differ from Geo is the idea that to this point Aso is closer to the HOF than CB because he obviously hasn't been at the top of his position for nearly as long. BUT when it's all said and done it is not a ludacris statement at all. The only thing that could hold Aso back from being considered the best of his generation would be the less than mainstream publicity press he seems to still get as opposed to CB. He was named a pro bowl alternate last season ?? Okay.

Xonraider
11-06-2008, 10:51 AM
I'd rather have him than ANYONE on the team. That's right. He's the only one worth something. Well, Thomas Howard is alright too.

Jimmy
11-06-2008, 11:27 AM
Bailey had a Hall of Fame-caliber, out-of-his-mind season with 2006. Then he went back to being Champ Bailey, giving up long bombs.

Edit: comment deleted. i refuse to argue any more about this topic. it's sad that anyone could think that.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 11:45 AM
Seriously geo.

I think were calling shenanigans, not because we don't respect aso. That's totally not the case, but because there is no way all this hype is just because 2006. none of it. None.

How about this... in case you can't go back in time...

Redskins second-year cornerback Champ Bailey is gaining the type of respect normally reserved for deoin sanders (2000, Ft. Worth Star-Telegram)

Champ Bailey has established himself as one of the league's top cornerbacks in only his third season... (2001, Washington Times)

To say it's a coin flip NOW... with the level aso is playing at is further proof that champ bailey is HOF worthy.

abaddon41_80
11-06-2008, 11:48 AM
I think its better if I worded it this way:

Tier 1 Corner:
Scrabble Asomugha

Tier 2 Corners:
Chuck Woodson
Asante Samuel
Champ Bailey
Marcus Trufant
Corteland Finnegan
Darrelle Revis

Tier 3:
Shelden Brown
Charles Tillman
Quentin jammer
ken Lucas
Corey Webster
Al Harris
Ike Taylor
Terrence Newman
Antoine Winfield
Rashean Mathis


The Tier 3 guys u could put in that 7-10 range IMO.

Trufant has been burnt so many times this year it isn't even funny

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 11:49 AM
Trufant has been burnt so many times this year it isn't even funny


No not really. In fact he's only been beaten in man coverage 3 times.

Your prolly thinking of Kelly Jennings who has been benched thsi season...

Sniper
11-06-2008, 11:50 AM
No not really. In fact he's only been beaten in man coverage 3 times.

Your prolly thinking of Kelly Jennings who has been benched thsi season...

For some reason, the Eagles tried challenging Trufant with Kevin Curtis instead of attacking Kelly Jennings with DeSean Jackson. Drove me up a ******* wall.

abaddon41_80
11-06-2008, 11:51 AM
No not really. In fact he's only been beaten in man coverage 3 times.

Your prolly thinking of Kelly Jennings who has been benched thsi season...

No. Providing that Trufant is still #23 I am thinking of him.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 11:53 AM
For some reason, the Eagles tried challenging Trufant with Kevin Curtis instead of attacking Kelly Jennings with DeSean Jackson. Drove me up a ******* wall.

I know, cost me fantasy poitns with DeSean :mad:

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 11:54 AM
No. Providing that Trufant is still #23 I am thinking of him.

Well then you prolly won't like this then:


Seahawks LCB Marcus Trufant has reportedly been beaten only three times this season in man-to-man coverage.

Trufant has a broken hand and no interceptions through 7 games, but he's been locking down his man. Internet is great for research, especially team forums

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 11:56 AM
In fact besides Greg jennings i can't recall him being "completely burned". Also i'm sure a broken hand has nothing to do with it...

Jimmy
11-06-2008, 11:59 AM
and to say that champ bailey has been notorious, or is known for giving up long balls... i'm horrified. thats all i'll say, but I'm shocked you said that.

PACKmanN
11-06-2008, 12:09 PM
Champ >>>>>>> Woodson

lol, Woodson has been playing under the same things that Champ was last year(no pass rush or stopping the run) and playing hurt yet he still beasting it. As it stands, Woodson>>>>>>>>>Champ

abaddon41_80
11-06-2008, 12:13 PM
I have watched 5 Seahawks games this year (SFx2, Giants, Green Bay, and Tampa Bay) and seen Trufant get beat for long pass plays 5 or 6 times plus all the times he played 20 yards off the WR and allowed a 15 yard completion

Dr. Gonzo
11-06-2008, 12:17 PM
I am going to put on my homer hat and throw Antoine Winfield in to this thing. He is for sure not the best or even top 5 but he has single handidly won the Vikings won game this season and without him we probably would have lost at least another game.

I am liking most of the names thrown out so far and really do not have anyone to add. I will say that in the right system Malcom Jenkins will be top 5 within the next few years.

Sniper
11-06-2008, 12:20 PM
Champ >>>>>>> Woodson

Oh my Woodson! Lord Woodson will smite you for your evil misgivings.

SuperMcGee
11-06-2008, 12:56 PM
He got beat up on by Fitz earlier in the year, but Jabari Greer has been a very solid coverage guy and might be setting himself up for a bit of money with two INT returned for touchdowns this year.

tjsunstein
11-06-2008, 01:33 PM
I am going to put on my homer hat and throw Antoine Winfield in to this thing. He is for sure not the best or even top 5 but he has single handidly won the Vikings won game this season and without him we probably would have lost at least another game.

I am liking most of the names thrown out so far and really do not have anyone to add. I will say that in the right system Malcom Jenkins will be top 5 within the next few years.

I agree...

AntoinCD
11-06-2008, 01:38 PM
Nnamdi Asomghua
Charles Woodson
Cortland Finnegan
Antoine Winfield
Darrelle Revis
Sheldon Brown
Champ Bailey
Chris Gamble

Mostly based on performances this year

Rayray52
11-06-2008, 01:48 PM
Rashean Mathis is still a lock down corner i dont know how hes not making these lists...Carlos Rogers and Antrel Rolle really seem to be playing up to their potential this year there not yet top corners but are playing much better, Rolle especially there was whispers he would have to move to safety because he was getting burned so much before this year.

Jimmy
11-06-2008, 01:50 PM
I've watched a lot of Finnegan. He is what many people choose to refer to as "dirty." In a good way. He's a great player, he's hard nosed, doesn't take nothing from anyone, and will make you pay in run support. He's also a flatout great cover corner. I have him in my top 4 corners in the nfl right now, very close to Asomugha.

SuperKevin
11-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Rashean Mathis is still a lock down corner i dont know how hes not making these lists...Carlos Rogers and Antrel Rolle really seem to be playing up to their potential this year there not yet top corners but are playing much better, Rolle especially there was whispers he would have to move to safety because he was getting burned so much before this year.

Antrel Rolle is a crappy corner. He's a safety

fenikz
11-06-2008, 01:58 PM
Rod Hood #1 CB in the league

any list without him in the top 10 is just not respectable

Rayray52
11-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Wow i cant believe the Champ Bailey hate in here its ridiculous especially coming from a mod...really reflects poorly on the site as a whole.

terribletowel39
11-06-2008, 02:05 PM
Ike Taylor has been one of the more consistent corners the past two years and still gets no mention. I'm not complaining because it doesn't really matter. He has rocks as hands so he never has any interception numbers but when locked up one on one I haven't seen him get beat this year and I've seen every Steelers game. He is a beast and glad we have him. I might even put him as the best defender in our secondary. And that is saying something with Troy P. and Ryan Clark in the secondary as well.

tjsunstein
11-06-2008, 02:10 PM
Well if Rod Hood gets mentioned then why not Tramon Williams

stephenson86
11-06-2008, 02:10 PM
shame hes not better on madden lol

illmatic74
11-06-2008, 02:11 PM
As senior, named first-team All-American by NFL Draft Report, first-team All-American by American Football Coaches Association and first-team All-OVC for third consecutive year. Started every game at free safety and led team with 98 tackles for third consecutive season and added two tackles for loss, one interception, seven passes defensed, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery. Ranked first in OVC conference with 15.1 punt return average, while returning 14 punts for 212 yards and one touchdown. Ranked second in OVC conference with 25.1 kickoff return average on 15 returns for 376 yards.

courtesy of his bio on titansonline.comAlso Football outsiders named him one of their top prospects.

stephenson86
11-06-2008, 02:14 PM
such a steal

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 02:20 PM
Wow i cant believe the Champ Bailey hate in here its ridiculous especially coming from a mod...really reflects poorly on the site as a whole.

Mod's aren't smart by their nature. Ask njx. But then again. njx is smarter than everyone. Except for Toons.

Menardo75
11-06-2008, 02:38 PM
Aso is one of the top corners in the game. If he even wants to come back, then they need to do whatever it takes to re-sign him.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 02:58 PM
Aso is one of the top corners in the game. If he even wants to come back, then they need to do whatever it takes to re-sign him.

Franchise him. Then trade him.

That's what the raiders need.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:00 PM
Franchise him. Then trade him.

That's what the raiders need.

Sadly, you are correct. He's gonna turn 28 soon, so it's safe to say he wont be in his prime by the time the Raiders see some signs of life from their franchise. At this point you could get HUGE value for him, and you could try and build through the draft.

Sniper
11-06-2008, 03:01 PM
Mod's aren't smart by their nature. Ask njx. But then again. njx is smarter than everyone. Except for Toons.

Urge to kill rising...

But yes, you're indeed correct. Toon is wise, very wise.

Menardo75
11-06-2008, 03:02 PM
Sadly, you are correct. He's gonna turn 28 soon, so it's safe to say he wont be in his prime by the time the Raiders see some signs of life from their franchise. At this point you could get HUGE value for him, and you could try and build through the draft.

That would be the best idea for sure. Highly doubt Al makes that decision. How many other good ones has he made lately?

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 03:05 PM
Urge to kill rising...

But yes, you're indeed correct. Toon is wise, very wise.

First error ever. Throw me a bone sniper.

P-L
11-06-2008, 03:05 PM
Wow i cant believe the Champ Bailey hate in here its ridiculous especially coming from a mod...really reflects poorly on the site as a whole.
Because a mod has a differing opinion it reflects poorly on the site? That's bull crap. Should all mods conform to popular opinion to make you feel better? Geo has a pretty good track record. I think even he'll tell you he's not perfect, but he's more knowledgeable than 95% of the posters on this site. When he talks, you should at least listen and give his opinions some thought. If you still disagree, then that's fine. Just don't tell me it is a poor reflection on the site because a mod has an opinion that you don't agree with. Especially a mod like Geo.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:05 PM
That would be the best idea for sure. Highly doubt Al makes that decision. How many other good ones has he made lately?

Which is why he desperately needs a GM. He needs to over-pay for one, because i don't understand why anyone would go there, outside of a huge pay day.

Quick hypothetical here.
With their first pick, which is probably gonna be in the top three or four, take Orakpo, and you have a beast DE. With the extra first they pick up for Aso (most likely in the top 15), take the best OT available, and pick up a second or third as well to compensate for the one you gave up for Hall. Go OL and DL in the next two rounds and pick up some developmental for the secondary, and bam. You're on your way to success.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 03:07 PM
But why does he need a GM for any other reason than to work on contract negotiation.

Edit: You forget. BAM you need a coach.

Menardo75
11-06-2008, 03:08 PM
Which is why he desperately needs a GM. He needs to over-pay for one, because i don't understand why anyone would go there, outside of a huge pay day.

Quick hypothetical here.
With their first pick, which is probably gonna be in the top three or four, take Orakpo, and you have a beast DE. With the extra first they pick up for Aso (most likely in the top 15), take the best OT available, and pick up a second or third as well to compensate for the one you gave up for Hall. Go OL and DL in the next two rounds and pick up some developmental for the secondary, and bam. You're on your way to success.

Is'nt it amazing how in a couple minutes we can formulate a plan to put the Raiders back on track. When Al has been thinking about it for 5 years.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:10 PM
But why does he need a GM for any other reason than to work on contract negotiation.

To hire his own scouting personnel and bring in the types of players he feels will be best for the team, not Al. I think it's pretty obvious that Davis isn't the best at evaluating talent or potential team chemistry and cohesiveness.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 03:10 PM
I have watched 5 Seahawks games this year (SFx2, Giants, Green Bay, and Tampa Bay) and seen Trufant get beat for long pass plays 5 or 6 times plus all the times he played 20 yards off the WR and allowed a 15 yard completion

I've seen 4 seahawks games (Giants, Pack, Bucs, and Niners) and besides the Jennings play I have yet to see him get "burned". He's been one of the better corners in the NFC for years now

Sniper
11-06-2008, 03:11 PM
First error ever. Throw me a bone sniper.

Fair enough :D

Sniper
11-06-2008, 03:13 PM
Which is why he desperately needs a GM. He needs to over-pay for one, because i don't understand why anyone would go there, outside of a huge pay day.

Quick hypothetical here.
With their first pick, which is probably gonna be in the top three or four, take Orakpo, and you have a beast DE. With the extra first they pick up for Aso (most likely in the top 15), take the best OT available, and pick up a second or third as well to compensate for the one you gave up for Hall. Go OL and DL in the next two rounds and pick up some developmental for the secondary, and bam. You're on your way to success.

Rak is exactly the type of pick Al Davis would make. It would actually make sense too. The thing is, I don't think there's a OT worth a top 15 pick at that point. That is assuminng the Big Three OT are gone.

ChezPower4
11-06-2008, 03:13 PM
Franchise him. Then trade him.

That's what the raiders need.

It would be the best solution for the Raiders but teams may not want to trade for Asomugha. If the Raiders do franchise him, like they should. I can't see any reason for him to sign a long term deal with Oakland. If teams are willing to wait till the end of the 09 season to sign him as a FA I think it would work out better for them because if you trade for him then your going to lose a couple draft picks and have to sign him to a big new deal. If teams wait till the end of the 09 season they may have to pay more for him in FA but the'll lose not picks.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 03:16 PM
To hire his own scouting personnel and bring in the types of players he feels will be best for the team, not Al. I think it's pretty obvious that Davis isn't the best at evaluating talent or potential team chemistry and cohesiveness.

Chemistry and Cohesiveness. Yes. Talent? I don't know. He likes flashy people. And you know what?

They have talent on both sides of the ball. Love or hate, Jamarcus Russell can still be their QB of the future, they have a quality rb. some good defensive players...

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:17 PM
Rak is exactly the type of pick Al Davis would make. It would actually make sense too. The thing is, I don't think there's a OT worth a top 15 pick at that point. That is assuminng the Big Three OT are gone.

Yeah, the only difference with Orakpo and other freak athletes is that he has the production to back it up. Kind of like McFadden last year, and he would fill a position of need. They need line help baaddd.

Menardo75
11-06-2008, 03:18 PM
Chemistry and Cohesiveness. Yes. Talent? I don't know. He likes flashy people. And you know what?

They have talent on both sides of the ball. Love or hate, Jamarcus Russell can still be their QB of the future, they have a quality rb. some good defensive players...

I believe that as crazy as it sounds they do have a somewhat solid foundation of talent on both sides.

Sniper
11-06-2008, 03:19 PM
Yeah, the only difference with Orakpo and other freak athletes is that he has the production to back it up. Kind of like McFadden last year, and he would fill a position of need. They need line help baaddd.

I hated the McFadden pick. He's a good player, but an 89th running back wasn't necessary. Those are exactly the types of moves that keep bad teams down.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:21 PM
Chemistry and Cohesiveness. Yes. Talent? I don't know. He likes flashy people. And you know what?

They have talent on both sides of the ball. Love or hate, Jamarcus Russell can still be their QB of the future, they have a quality rb. some good defensive players...

Well flashy people doesn't always = production, as the Raiders know very well. I didn't say they need to tear the team apart. They have some nice building blocks. Russell, McFadden, Miller, Morrison, Howard, Huff (if he stays on the team) and Wilson. I don't know if they're ready to win any time soon.

TitleTown088
11-06-2008, 03:21 PM
Adam reports hes going to be franchised, again. Surprise.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:22 PM
I hated the McFadden pick. He's a good player, but an 89th running back wasn't necessary. Those are exactly the types of moves that keep bad teams down.

Did the Titans REALLY need a 1391827th running back taken in 1289739 consecutive drafts? No. But they're sure as hell glad that they took Chris Johnson, right? Fargas was good, Bush hadn't proven anything. They saw a chance at an Elite guy and took it.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 03:23 PM
I believe that as crazy as it sounds they do have a somewhat solid foundation of talent on both sides.

I know. But, this is where i say that there's some bigger problems involved in the organization bringing them down from the top.

Which is why i'm convinced that there's such problems that it's becoming bad for the league, damaging the credibility of the organization and the leagues as a whole as being a highly unfavorable place to be employed.

Btw. 5k posts. Crazy ****.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:28 PM
I know. But, this is where i say that there's some bigger problems involved in the organization bringing them down from the top.

Which is why i'm convinced that there's such problems that it's becoming bad for the league, damaging the credibility of the organization and the leagues as a whole as being a highly unfavorable place to be employed.

Btw. 5k posts. Crazy ****.

I don't think a GM would be firing his Head Coach every year. How is there gonna be any development of the little talent they have with constant scheme changing, and different personalities trying to take charge year after year? The problem is Al Davis thinking he's competent enough to handle this team, when it has become very apparent that he can not. Now what route can you take? A competency hearing? What constitutes the proper ability to handle an NFL franchise? It's just too hard to prove that he's detrimental to the league.

ShutDwn
11-06-2008, 03:30 PM
I think its better if I worded it this way:

Tier 1 Corner:
Scrabble Asomugha

Tier 2 Corners:
Chuck Woodson
Asante Samuel
Champ Bailey
Marcus Trufant
Corteland Finnegan
Darrelle Revis

Tier 3:
Shelden Brown
Charles Tillman
Quentin jammer
ken Lucas
Corey Webster
Al Harris
Ike Taylor
Terrence Newman
Antoine Winfield
Rashean Mathis


The Tier 3 guys u could put in that 7-10 range IMO.

Chris Gamble isn't even a top 3 tier guy?

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 03:31 PM
I don't think a GM would be firing his Head Coach every year. How is there gonna be any development of the little talent they have with constant scheme changing, and different personalities trying to take charge year after year? The problem is Al Davis thinking he's competent enough to handle this team, when it has become very apparent that he can not. Now what route can you take? A competency hearing? What constitutes the proper ability to handle an NFL franchise? It's just too hard to prove that he's detrimental to the league.

Is africa a country?

Sniper
11-06-2008, 03:32 PM
Did the Titans REALLY need a 1391827th running back taken in 1289739 consecutive drafts? No. But they're sure as hell glad that they took Chris Johnson, right? Fargas was good, Bush hadn't proven anything. They saw a chance at an Elite guy and took it.

Fair enough, though I still say the desire for a ZOMGZ athlete made Al blind to bigger needs. Johnson was a perfect pick to match with LenDale White, and the Titans didn't have as many gaping holes as Oakland. Not to mention the fact that Chris Johnson went 20 picks later and cost Tennessee a buttload less money.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:34 PM
Is africa a country?

If Al Davis has a heart attack in the middle of the woods, does anyone hear him yelling for help? Or care, for that matter?

Sniper
11-06-2008, 03:35 PM
Or care, for that matter?

You don't think the other owners wouldn't want him alive? It helps every other team in the league if he's around! :D

619
11-06-2008, 03:36 PM
I hated the McFadden pick. He's a good player, but an 89th running back wasn't necessary. Those are exactly the types of moves that keep bad teams down.

Exactly. I've started to really realize this of late. We should adapt your Eagles draft model : BUILD YOUR TEAM THROUGH THE LINES FIRST !

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 03:37 PM
Fair enough, though I still say the desire for a ZOMGZ athlete made Al blind to bigger needs. Johnson was a perfect pick to match with LenDale White, and the Titans didn't have as many gaping holes as Oakland. Not to mention the fact that Chris Johnson went 20 picks later and cost Tennessee a buttload less money.

Who were they to take? Dorsey?

Sniper
11-06-2008, 03:37 PM
Exactly. I've started to really realize this of late. We should adapt your Eagles draft model : BUILD YOUR TEAM THROUGH THE LINES FIRST !

Maybe. It hasn't brought home the championship yet, though that may be because of the FO's stubborness/unwillingness to address major needs. The concept is logical, the blind faith in crappy skill position players is not.

Sniper
11-06-2008, 03:38 PM
Who were they to take? Dorsey?

Dorsey, Ellis, Clady (would have been considered a reach, kind of a hindsight is 20/20) Trade down. Anyone but another RB.

619
11-06-2008, 03:41 PM
Who were they to take? Dorsey?

In this draft I'm sure the second option would have been Gholston or if not then a trade down or reach on Clady.

abaddon41_80
11-06-2008, 03:55 PM
I've seen 4 seahawks games (Giants, Pack, Bucs, and Niners) and besides the Jennings play I have yet to see him get "burned". He's been one of the better corners in the NFC for years now

He was burned multiple times by Bruce in the first game against San Francisco, against New York I saw him get beat twice (by Toomer and Moss IIRC) for big gains, and against Tampa Bay Bryant ripped him up.

EDIT: And I can't believe no one has even mentioned Nate Clements. I guess that is what playing in San Francisco nowadays will do to you. Top 5 (imo) to 10 corner and doesn't make some people's top 15.

PackerLegend
11-06-2008, 04:01 PM
Charles "I have a big woody" Woodson FTW!

Just a beast, shame he had to be in Oakland for awhile

Sniper
11-06-2008, 04:01 PM
Charles "I have a big woody" Woodson FTW!

Just a beast, shame he had to be in Oakland for awhile

I love you and wish to have your babies.

Jimmy
11-06-2008, 04:04 PM
i giggled. somewhere, snuff choked on something.

17,000 posts appears to be quite the lofty #. congrats on that

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 04:11 PM
i giggled. somewhere, snuff choked on something.

i can tell you what it was.

http://vjmorton.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/choksondik.jpg

Vox Populi
11-06-2008, 04:11 PM
1. Nnamdi Asomugha
2. Champ Bailey
3. Charles Woodson
4. Cortland Finnegan
5. Rashean Mathis
6. Darrelle Revis
7. Nate Clements
8. Asante Samuel
9. Marcus Trufant
10. Jabari Greer (okay, so this spot actually belongs to Chris Gable, but Greer has been money this year for my Bills so I thought I'd give him a shout out)

Not sure everyones going to agree with my list. And I'd like to point out. NO TNEW OR CROMARTIE. No one likes either of them anymore. I'm also not a fan of Al Harris to be frank, sorry Packer fans, I just don't buy it. Hes good if they don't get off the line, but when they do the results aren't all that great...

Sniper
11-06-2008, 04:12 PM
No Sheldon Brown? For shame.

Vox Populi
11-06-2008, 04:15 PM
Yeah, I haven't watched any Eagles games this year very closely, just on in the background while I do other stuff. Blame them for being on MNF and SNF only for where I live and I never really watch those games closely. I don't feel like going off your word, sorry ;)

Go_Eagles77
11-06-2008, 04:20 PM
We'll see exactly how much Sheldon has improved when he goes up against Plaxico Sunday night, who has made him look silly many times in the past.

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 04:24 PM
heh, epic.

i appreciate that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic anymore.

i tried to start a 'fix the raiders' thread. but. alas. nothing ever goes how it's supposed to

giantsfan
11-06-2008, 04:38 PM
i tried to start a 'fix the raiders' thread. but. alas. nothing ever goes how it's supposed to

That's because the idea of the raiders not being dysfunctional is so ridiculous and absurd in and of itself that a discussion about it can't help but end up being as ridiculous and absurd.

Sniper
11-06-2008, 04:40 PM
We'll see exactly how much Sheldon has improved when he goes up against Plaxico Sunday night, who has made him look silly many times in the past.

Ughhhhhhhhhhh that's probably the lone guy I don't trust him against. Plaxico has ******* owned Sheldon in the past.

captainjack27
11-06-2008, 04:44 PM
1. Scrabble Asomugha
2. Chuck Woodson
3. Asante Samuel
4. Champ Bailey
5. Marcus Trufant
6. Corteland Finegan
7. Sheldon Brown
8. Charles Tillman
9. Darrelle Revis
10. Quentin Jammer


solid list...that avatar is gonna send u straight to hell though

Turtlepower
11-06-2008, 04:45 PM
Jacque Reeves is a top-10 CB, I don't know what everyone else is thinking.

jsagan77
11-06-2008, 04:53 PM
Carlos Rogers has shut down every #1 receiver he's faced this year.. The fact that no one is even mentioning him is a travesty... If he had any hands whatsoever he would be mentioned with Aso... Guy covers like Champ, hits like Landry but unfortunaly catches like Braylon Edwards..

BlindSite
11-06-2008, 04:55 PM
Aso
Bailey
Asante Samuel
Courtland Finnegan
Charles Woodson
Chris Gamble
Rogers
Sheldon Brown
Shawn Springs
Webster

SuperKevin
11-06-2008, 05:05 PM
Aso
Bailey
Asante Samuel
Courtland Finnegan
Charles Woodson
Chris Gamble
Rogers
Sheldon Brown
Shawn Springs
Webster

Carlos Rogers, Shawn Springs, and Jason Webster??????

Turtlepower
11-06-2008, 05:10 PM
Carlos Rogers, Shawn Springs, and Jason Webster??????

I think he is referring to Corey Webster, but I agree that Carlos Rodgers is getting massively overrated this year.

Sniper
11-06-2008, 05:11 PM
I think he is referring to Corey Webster, but I agree that Carlos Rodgers is getting massively overrated this year.

I disagree. Rogers has been damn good this year.

703SKINS202
11-06-2008, 05:13 PM
Like I said before, this is why Rogers isn't a pro-bowler yet but he easily could be this year.

http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1833/11774702/20916711/341966335.jpg

TheBuffaloBills
11-06-2008, 05:15 PM
Jabari Greer is insanely underrated.

JF4
11-06-2008, 05:15 PM
1. Nnamdi Asomugha
2. Champ Bailey
3. Charles Woodson
4. Cortland Finnegan
5. Rashean Mathis
6. Darrelle Revis
7. Nate Clements
8. Asante Samuel
9. Marcus Trufant
10. Jabari Greer (okay, so this spot actually belongs to Chris Gable, but Greer has been money this year for my Bills so I thought I'd give him a shout out)

Not sure everyones going to agree with my list. And I'd like to point out. NO TNEW OR CROMARTIE. No one likes either of them anymore. I'm also not a fan of Al Harris to be frank, sorry Packer fans, I just don't buy it. Hes good if they don't get off the line, but when they do the results aren't all that great...

You won't find too many Packer fans arguing for Harris as a top 10 anymore.

gsorace
11-06-2008, 05:25 PM
Aso
Bailey
Asante Samuel
Courtland Finnegan
Charles Woodson
Chris Gamble
Rogers
Sheldon Brown
Shawn Springs
Webster

Darrelle Revis is better than at least 4 guys on that list, if not more.

Bengals1690
11-06-2008, 05:33 PM
Leon Hall is a manbeast.

that is all

Sniper
11-06-2008, 05:34 PM
Leon Hall is a manbeast.

that is all

True story. I saw it.

bernbabybern820
11-06-2008, 05:50 PM
I hated the McFadden pick. He's a good player, but an 89th running back wasn't necessary. Those are exactly the types of moves that keep bad teams down.

Exactly. I've started to really realize this of late. We should adapt your Eagles draft model : BUILD YOUR TEAM THROUGH THE LINES FIRST !

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80c410a5&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

"Hall said Davis told him the Raiders are about to get rid of other players to clear money in order to acquire better linemen on both sides of the ball and address other areas of need -- like locking up Pro Bowl cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha."

uh oh watch out!

Thigamahjigee
11-06-2008, 05:55 PM
Rod Hood #1 CB in the league

any list without him in the top 10 is just not respectable

This get a chuckle out of anyone else?

fenikz
11-06-2008, 05:57 PM
oh im sorry i thought this was the homer thread for CBs cus that appears to be what everyone is posting

its a joke get used to it

Thigamahjigee
11-06-2008, 06:03 PM
oh im sorry i thought this was the homer thread for CBs cus that appears to be what everyone is posting

its a joke get used to it

My mistake. It appears to be a pretty popular joke.

fenikz
11-06-2008, 06:03 PM
im sure most of these people are serious tough

Menardo75
11-06-2008, 06:05 PM
I hope for the Raiders sake that is Javon Walker.

Turtlepower
11-06-2008, 06:05 PM
im sure most of these people are serious tough

Chris McGaha would probably be a first round CB if he declares early this year.

Burns336
11-06-2008, 06:10 PM
1. Nnamdi Asomugha
2. Champ Bailey
3. Charles Woodson
4. Cortland Finnegan
5. Rashean Mathis
6. Darrelle Revis
7. Nate Clements
8. Asante Samuel
9. Marcus Trufant
10. Jabari Greer (okay, so this spot actually belongs to Chris Gable, but Greer has been money this year for my Bills so I thought I'd give him a shout out)

Not sure everyones going to agree with my list. And I'd like to point out. NO TNEW OR CROMARTIE. No one likes either of them anymore. I'm also not a fan of Al Harris to be frank, sorry Packer fans, I just don't buy it. Hes good if they don't get off the line, but when they do the results aren't all that great...

Tnew isn't close to being what Cro and Harris have been this year.

Attempting to play through a sports hernia and playing poorly is not the same as just playing poorly.

Bruce Banner
11-06-2008, 06:10 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80c410a5&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

"Hall said Davis told him the Raiders are about to get rid of other players to clear money in order to acquire better linemen on both sides of the ball and address other areas of need -- like locking up Pro Bowl cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha."

uh oh watch out!

It takes two, to tango.

BlindSite
11-06-2008, 06:18 PM
Leon Hall is a manbeast.

that is all

I still remember his rookie opener how steve smith beat him like he was his daddy.

Hines
11-06-2008, 06:23 PM
If Ike Taylor had hands, he would be a top 10 corner easily.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 06:24 PM
What do you all think of Jim Harbaugh possibly joining the Raidahzz.

Turtlepower
11-06-2008, 06:24 PM
What do you all think of Jim Harbaugh possibly joining the Raidahzz.

He has a top-10 recruiting class coming into Stanford. There is no way he leaves for the Raiders.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 06:29 PM
He has a top-10 recruiting class coming into Stanford. There is no way he leaves for the Raiders.

I'm just bringing it up cause apparently he loves Al Davis and as horrible as the Raiders organization is, it's still the NFL. He's the joke of the Pac-10 at Stanford.

Turtlepower
11-06-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm just bringing it up cause apparently he loves Al Davis and as horrible as the Raiders organization is, it's still the NFL. He's the joke of the Pac-10 at Stanford.

Wow, he is actually the complete opposite. He has a chance of even winning PAC-10 coach of the year, so I don't know what you are referring to. He took a team that 2 years ago only had 1 win and might lead them to a bowl game. He has instilled life into a lifeless program in only 2 years, which is ridiculous especially at an academic institution like Stanford.

Sniper
11-06-2008, 06:35 PM
Wow, he is actually the complete opposite. He has a chance of even winning PAC-10 coach of the year, so I don't know what you are referring to. He took a team that 2 years ago only had 1 win and might lead them to a bowl game. He has instilled life into a lifeless program in only 2 years, which is ridiculous especially at an academic institution like Stanford.

I was just about to say that haha. Stanford is on the upswing.

Burns336
11-06-2008, 06:43 PM
If Ike Taylor had hands, he would be a top 10 corner easily.

He and Charles Tillman are both very underrated. Especially Tillman.

No one ever wants to give Tillman any props but he's great.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 06:47 PM
Wow, he is actually the complete opposite. He has a chance of even winning PAC-10 coach of the year, so I don't know what you are referring to. He took a team that 2 years ago only had 1 win and might lead them to a bowl game. He has instilled life into a lifeless program in only 2 years, which is ridiculous especially at an academic institution like Stanford.

If you sincerely believe he has a shot at winning a National title or anything significant at Stanford, there is something wrong with you. He'll NEVER win a NT, and he probably won't win the Pac-10 ever either.

There is only 32 of these types of jobs in the world, and he might get offered one of them, with a guy that he apparently admires a lot. I don't see how it's as far fetched as you make it seem, simply because he has a top ten class coming in.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-06-2008, 07:18 PM
I don't get how Harbaugh is the joke of the Pac Ten.As a Cal fan I can easily see this guy being a great HC for Stanford which worries me.Washington is the joke of the Pac Ten.Stanford's 5-4 right now and is 4-2 in the Pac Ten.They could easily go to a bowl game this season.

MetSox17
11-06-2008, 07:19 PM
I don't get how Harbaugh is the joke of the Pac Ten.As a Cal fan I can easily see this guy being a great HC for Stanford which worries me.Washington is the joke of the Pac Ten.

Stanford is, not Harbaugh. They'll never be a top program. Never.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 07:37 PM
He and Charles Tillman are both very underrated. Especially Tillman.

No one ever wants to give Tillman any props but he's great.


I did :D, Tillman is very underrated.

CroomDawgs
11-06-2008, 07:41 PM
He was burned multiple times by Bruce in the first game against San Francisco, against New York I saw him get beat twice (by Toomer and Moss IIRC) for big gains, and against Tampa Bay Bryant ripped him up.

EDIT: And I can't believe no one has even mentioned Nate Clements. I guess that is what playing in San Francisco nowadays will do to you. Top 5 (imo) to 10 corner and doesn't make some people's top 15.


Kelly Jennings was guarding Bryant are freakin serious. I' starting to wonder if you watched all 60 minutes because for 3/4 of that game it was # 21, KELLY JENNINGS., not #23, MARCUS TRUFANT

The first game Bruce burned him ONCE. In fact if you go to rotoworld they mention that based off his play this season. Toomer had the big catch early but The moss TD was a zone play it was bryan Russells fault

And Nate Clements? Please you wanna talk about someone getting burned...

Bengals1690
11-06-2008, 08:18 PM
I still remember his rookie opener how steve smith beat him like he was his daddy.

leon hall would throw steve smith's face through a car windsheild, then take his mother out to a nice seafood dinner and NEVER call her again.

Sniper
11-06-2008, 10:11 PM
leon hall would throw steve smith's face through a car windsheild, then take his mother out to a nice seafood dinner and NEVER call her again.

Dorothy Smith?

awfullyquiet
11-06-2008, 11:13 PM
if i was harbaugh i would never take the raiders job.

you couldn't pay me the money.

i say they get art shell to be the coach again. just for a few years.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-06-2008, 11:43 PM
I have to say, there's some part of me that gleams hope out of the fact that Al Davis, instead of stubbornly sticking to his roster decisions, is ready to knock off excess investments and non-performing players. Finally, he's showing as much faith in his roster as he has shown in his head coaches. Now if he can just pick a guy he really likes and stick with him, this team might have a chance to not be picking in the top 5 every season for the next decade.

MetSox17
11-07-2008, 07:59 AM
I have to say, there's some part of me that gleams hope out of the fact that Al Davis, instead of stubbornly sticking to his roster decisions, is ready to knock off excess investments and non-performing players. Finally, he's showing as much faith in his roster as he has shown in his head coaches. Now if he can just pick a guy he really likes and stick with him, this team might have a chance to not be picking in the top 5 every season for the next decade.

That's the problem. He changes head coaches like he changes jump-suits.

abaddon41_80
11-07-2008, 08:31 AM
Kelly Jennings was guarding Bryant are freakin serious. I' starting to wonder if you watched all 60 minutes because for 3/4 of that game it was # 21, KELLY JENNINGS., not #23, MARCUS TRUFANT

I'm starting to wonder if you watched the game. Trufant was playing off of Bryant the entire game and let him catch tons of short passes before making the tackle.

The first game Bruce burned him ONCE. In fact if you go to rotoworld they mention that based off his play this season.

On 3 of Bruce's 4 catches the Seahawks were in man and Trufant was on him. The 60+ yarder right before halftime was all on Trufant and Bruce caught 2 20+ yarders when Trufant was playing off way too much

Toomer had the big catch early but The moss TD was a zone play it was bryan Russells fault

The Moss TD looked like man to me but I guess that is the problem with judging corners, it's too subjective

And Nate Clements? Please you wanna talk about someone getting burned...

He has only been burned once this season, against New Orleans, but he made to tackle at the goalline and the Saints ended up not scoring.

Sniper
11-07-2008, 08:33 AM
Trufant looked good against Philly. Then again, he was covering Kevin Curtis.

CC.SD
11-07-2008, 09:23 AM
That's the problem. He changes head coaches like he changes jump-suits.

uh...never? :D

CroomDawgs
11-07-2008, 10:05 AM
I'm starting to wonder if you watched the game. Trufant was playing off of Bryant the entire game and let him catch tons of short passes before making the tackle.



On 3 of Bruce's 4 catches the Seahawks were in man and Trufant was on him. The 60+ yarder right before halftime was all on Trufant and Bruce caught 2 20+ yarders when Trufant was playing off way too much



The Moss TD looked like man to me but I guess that is the problem with judging corners, it's too subjective



He has only been burned once this season, against New Orleans, but he made to tackle at the goalline and the Saints ended up not scoring.


You've got to be kidding right First TD from scrimmage KELLY JENNINGS falls down and Bryant Scores, and Jennings was on him for most of the first. Trufant was on Hilliard until he got hurt then he was on Clayton. 2nd half he switched and Bryant wasn't as productive without Jennings on him

The 60 yarder is what I was referrign to in the man coverage. Playign 20 yards off isn't getting "burned" in man cverage, which is my point in this.

Trufant is much better at man than zone and I'm not saying it wasn't his fault on the td but russell was supposed to be over the top on that play.

I haven't watched clements much thsi year but last year i think i saw 4 niners games and it looked liek every game he was getting worked. Most notable was on Braylon Edwards....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTdFUxX7TDk

last clip

Turtlepower
11-07-2008, 10:09 AM
That's the problem. He changes head coaches like he changes jump-suits.

Yeah, I almost neg repped you for this attempt at a joke.

throwback54milkman
11-07-2008, 01:18 PM
if anyone has seen Darrellle Revis play every game like I have, he is definately a top 5 CB in this league. He is always matched up against the other team's top receiver. I remember last year in a late season game at NE he shut down Randy Moss. He's proceeded to shut down Chad Ocho, Lee Evans, Randy, and others. He also had a sack, fumble recovery last week. I just read an article today where Favre compared him to a less flashy Deion. idk just saying...

Sniper
11-07-2008, 01:21 PM
DeAngelo Hall to the Redskins

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/11/07/hall-to-the-redskins/

CroomDawgs
11-07-2008, 01:28 PM
if anyone has seen Darrellle Revis play every game like I have, he is definately a top 5 CB in this league. He is always matched up against the other team's top receiver. I remember last year in a late season game at NE he shut down Randy Moss. He's proceeded to shut down Chad Ocho, Lee Evans, Randy, and others. He also had a sack, fumble recovery last week. I just read an article today where Favre compared him to a less flashy Deion. idk just saying...

Revis is becoming a great player but he's only a 2nd year guy i don't wanna label him top 5 just yet.