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View Full Version : Matt Ryan vs. Joe Flacco


Thunder&Lightning
11-09-2008, 08:05 PM
Who will be better?

Bengalsrocket
11-09-2008, 08:14 PM
Matt Ryan all the way. I like what Flacco has done so far, but I think Ryan is developing quicker and has the ability to cleanse himself of that "young" perception much quicker than Flacco.

Don Vito
11-09-2008, 08:14 PM
I am a big Matt Ryan fan. I think he has everything you need to be a great NFL QB as far as the tools and intangibles are concerned. Flacco is very talented as well but I'll take Ryan.

Twiddler
11-09-2008, 08:18 PM
I want to say Ryan, but I'm not really in position to make the call considering all I've seen of Flacco is ESPN highlights.

steelersfan43
11-09-2008, 08:47 PM
haha ryan is winning13-0. Looks like joe should go become a plummer

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 08:48 PM
It's still hard to tell right now. Flacco is the superior athlete, though. He has prototypical size, a great arm, and better mobility. I think he has had the most to get acclimated to, coming from Delaware, in an offense where he was used mostly out of the shotgun. The odds were stacked against him being successful, and he has done a very admirable job. Ryan also has a better WR corps compared to Flacco's.

You can't really make a sound judgment right now, but if Flacco develops like he's showing he has the potential to, he'll be the better quarterback.

djp
11-09-2008, 08:48 PM
I like Flacco more than I like Ryan, but Ryan will be more successful because of a better supporting cast on offense. However, I think if McGahee gets going like I think he will, we are gonna see Flacco start to emerge even more.

princefielder28
11-09-2008, 08:49 PM
Joe Flacco is the man!

dabears10
11-09-2008, 08:51 PM
Flacco has the tools to become a better QB, but Matt Ryan is more of the sure thing to be a very good QB. I always like to see FCS guys succeed and that's why I will vote Flacco.

d34ng3l021
11-09-2008, 08:53 PM
You guys are lucky I have midterms this week otherwise I would have a 5 page report on why Ryan is the ish.

But Flacco is not slacking either. He has surprised me a lot. Both have potential to be franchise QBs.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 08:56 PM
You guys are lucky I have midterms this week otherwise I would have a 5 page report on why Ryan is the ish.

But Flacco is not slacking either. He has surprised me a lot. Both have potential to be franchise QBs.

Like i posted earlier, not taking anything away from Matty Ice. He is in fact, the ish. But i think Flacco is in a crappier situation, and is the better prospect as far as talent goes.

d34ng3l021
11-09-2008, 09:08 PM
Like i posted earlier, not taking anything away from Matty Ice. He is in fact, the ish. But i think Flacco is in a crappier situation, and is the better prospect as far as talent goes.

Yeah. Speaking in terms of being physically talented, Flacco has the upper arm (no pun intended). His arm strength and speed are terrific and in the upper echelon for QBs. Its how they are used is what makes a QB though. Ryan is not as fast as Flacco, but the way he eludes pressure is much more impressive than Flacco's way, simply because of his superior pocket presence.

However, I do think that Ryan's physical ability was severely underrated during the draft process. He can make every throw out there with just the amount of zip and touch needed. I have not seen a pass come up short because of his inablity to throw that far downfield, nor have I seen too many passes suffer from lack of zip. I am not trying to take away from Flacco here, but I am just saying that all of Ryan's physical tools are above average and will only get better.

Both have very bright careers ahead of them though. Ryan is very cerebral and will continue to work to get better with his better supporting cast, while Flacco will continue to improve as the NFL game slows down for him. If the Ravens can get Flacco a legit number 1 guy, they could have a real connection going.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 09:10 PM
Ryan under-threw Jenkins in that deep pass that put them at the three

d34ng3l021
11-09-2008, 09:15 PM
Ryan under-threw Jenkins in that deep pass that put them at the three

With the way the CB was playing coverage, it didn't seem like a terrible idea. Not sure if the pass would have been completed otherwise. I might just be making excuses, but you have a point.

Brent
11-09-2008, 09:22 PM
I voted Ryan because I think he's doing a little better. You have to give Flacco all the credit that's due but Cam Cameron is doing a wonderful job of play calling and playing to Joe's strengths.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-09-2008, 09:29 PM
I think it's time to admit I was wrong 100% wrong on Ryan now (actually it's WAY late and I'm the last person to do it). But yea, he's really good. I thought he'd be an ok QB, just didnt have the upside of others so it's possible Flacco could be better...but I really doubt it. Ryan is for real

tjsunstein
11-09-2008, 09:30 PM
Matt Ryan. It's easy.

d34ng3l021
11-09-2008, 09:36 PM
Matt Ryan. It's easy.

Not really. How Flacco is progressing is very very surprising. Imagine him in 2-3 years, when QBs usually break out (actually, imagine both these QBs in 2-3 years). I would like to see how he does against top/mediocre defenses (his good performances have come against, OAK, CLE, and HOU), but doing this well against poor teams is always a good sign.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-09-2008, 09:56 PM
There is absolutely nothing I have seen either Joe Flacco's college career or first NFL season that I would grade him as being functionaly better at than Matt Ryan. Ryan has adjusted even faster to the NFL than I thought he would.

The Falcons look like the better team and Ryan looks like the better quarterback. Things can change quickly, but from this vantage point Ryan looks like the obvious choice.

SeanTaylorRIP
11-09-2008, 09:57 PM
First off I'd take Flacco, but really both teams have a franchise QB, so who's to complain. Fact that Ravens got theirs for the 18th pick out of 1AA is a nice story though. Their are two things that separate them. Flacco separates himself because of his arm. He can make so many throws Ryan can't. In fact Flacco has an arm that could make him an elite QB. He can make that 18 yard out route easy. 75% of NFL QB's can't on a consistent basis. Physically he has better tools than Ryan. 6-5" and equally mobile. Ryan separates himself because he has the intangibles only 4 or 5 QB's max in the league right now have. That is something you either have or you don't. IMO Ryan will be a more efficient QB and win more major games, while Flacco will be the one down the line putting up ridiculously pro bowl numbers in yards and TD's, granted they bring in some wideouts. Both are in great situations. Ryans has a good line, two young stud RB's in Turner and Norwood and Roddy White. Flacco has a hell of a young O-line which is probably the most athletic in the league. Mcgahee is talented but unmotivated. Rice looks like a great scat back but not sure a full time starter. People really need to see how Flacco has played the last 4 games. If you only saw him at the start of the year he had a rough rookie start, now he is blazing. All of this and no real vertical threat wideout.

LonghornsLegend
11-09-2008, 10:00 PM
It's unfair to even ask this question now, Flacco had a bigger learning curve and still does, how about giving him two years to see how he fully develops, because physically he has alot of tools you look for and could be someone who becomes better then Ryan with time.


He's playing well but they haven't even opened up the offense for him the way they have with Ryan, that's why it's unfair to pose the question now.

Shane P. Hallam
11-09-2008, 10:05 PM
I was a huge Ryan fan pre-draft. Now, they are pretty close. Sure, Ryan has done more, but he has had more offense to work with. Flacco has had more defense.

Can we at least agree that Brian Brohm=Epic Fail?

Vox Populi
11-09-2008, 10:08 PM
Better question. Will either make the hall of fame?

9 games, folks. Theres hardly even enough film on them for their opponents to take advantage of their shortcomings yet. Give it 3 years. At least this won't be as painful as Eli vs. Rivers vs. Roethlisberger and for ignorant Bills homers, Losman... Both of 'em got thrown to the wolves and have responded very well and both are leading 6-3 teams. For now, I'm going with Ryan, but I only saw the Ravens game against the Steelers on Monday/Sunday Night a few weeks ago. I've seen Ryan a few times already so I've got more to go on with him. I don't have a real opinion on either yet.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 10:44 PM
There is absolutely nothing I have seen either Joe Flacco's college career or first NFL season that I would grade him as being functionaly better at than Matt Ryan. Ryan has adjusted even faster to the NFL than I thought he would.


I believe the question is "Who will be better". Not who is better right now.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-09-2008, 10:47 PM
I believe the question is "Who will be better". Not who is better right now.

Indeed. And I see nothing to suggest that Joe Flacco will be better than Matt Ryan. He's not in a better situation, he's not really all that more gifted, and Matt Ryan has adjusted faster to the NFL.

BamaFalcon59
11-09-2008, 10:47 PM
Ryan under-threw Jenkins in that deep pass that put them at the three

The CB was ahead of him. Looked like a back-shoulder throw to me.

Brent
11-09-2008, 10:55 PM
Can we at least agree that Brian Brohm=Epic Fail?
hasnt he been hurt?

SeanTaylorRIP
11-09-2008, 10:55 PM
Flacco's deep ball is so pretty. He has really let it lose the past 3 weeks. But honestly even if Ryan is better, the fact the Ravens might have a QB for the first time in franchise history, is exciting. Too bad Ray Lew had to wait so long. Ray Lew was beastly again btw, 2 INT's, 8 tackles.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 10:59 PM
Indeed. And I see nothing to suggest that Joe Flacco will be better than Matt Ryan. He's not in a better situation, he's not really all that more gifted, and Matt Ryan has adjusted faster to the NFL.

Him not being in a better situation only further values what he has shown this year. Like i stated earlier, he's made the biggest adjustments and has looked very well. Whether his team prevents him from ever developing fully is still to be seen, but up and down he's a better prospect than Matt Ryan, when taking away "intangibles" (i hate that word, but it's the only one that is known for defining what it does).

d34ng3l021
11-09-2008, 10:59 PM
Flacco's deep ball is so pretty. He has really let it lose the past 3 weeks. But honestly even if Ryan is better, the fact the Ravens might have a QB for the first time in franchise history, is exciting. Too bad Ray Lew had to wait so long. Ray Lew was beastly again btw, 2 INT's, 8 tackles.

yeah. these guys are huge for their teams. to think the falcons might have back to back winning seasons by possibly next year is mind boggling.

ChezPower4
11-09-2008, 11:00 PM
hasnt he been hurt?

No he has just not been very good so far but this is only his first year. So I don't know how you can say that "Brohm=epic fail" Brent?

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:00 PM
The CB was ahead of him. Looked like a back-shoulder throw to me.

Good try, but i don't think that was it. I agree that it ended best because he under-threw the ball, but that doesn't mean it was scripted that way. Usually when a ball is under-thrown, the WR has a better chance at making a play on it most of the time.

Sniper
11-09-2008, 11:00 PM
I was a huge Ryan fan pre-draft. Now, they are pretty close. Sure, Ryan has done more, but he has had more offense to work with. Flacco has had more defense.

Can we at least agree that Brian Brohm=Epic Fail?

Um, no. A rookie QB behind a young QB? Um, no.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:02 PM
Um, no. A rookie QB behind a young QB? Um, no.

Fail as in, you wasted a second round pick on a guy that will most likely never be your franchise quarterback.

BamaFalcon59
11-09-2008, 11:03 PM
Him not being in a better situation only further values what he has shown this year. Like i stated earlier, he's made the biggest adjustments and has looked very well. Whether his team prevents him from ever developing fully is still to be seen, but up and down he's a better prospect than Matt Ryan, when taking away "intangibles" (i hate that word, but it's the only one that is known for defining what it does).

Intangibles are something a lot of evaluators do not like, but they sure do help.

And everyone talks so much about Matt Ryan's supporting cast. I'll say this: if Ben Roethlisberger was at quarterback we would have allowed 30 sacks by now. Matt Ryan does an amazing job of getting the ball off. He pushes the safties back with his vertical passing game. Coming into the year he had one good receiver, him being Roddy White. Jenkins was viewed as a bust, Douglas as a draft reach. Laurent Robinson hasn't played much at all. Our tight ends are average at best.

Simply put, Matt Ryan makes his supporting cast look a lot better than it really is.

Sniper
11-09-2008, 11:03 PM
Fail as in, you wasted a second round pick on a guy that will most likely never be your franchise quarterback.

I doubt Green Bay expected Rodgers to be as good as he's been.

LonghornsLegend
11-09-2008, 11:03 PM
Hopefully the Ravens stop asking Todd Heap to block so much and let him be more of a receiver, then if they could just find a legit #1 option at WR who can really stretch the field, Mason is solid but they need that guy of the future that Matty Ice has.


I certainly don't think that makes Ryan better because he's adjusted faster, who didn't know that coming in?

Paranoidmoonduck
11-09-2008, 11:04 PM
Him not being in a better situation only further values what he has shown this year. Like i stated earlier, he's made the biggest adjustments and has looked very well. Whether his team prevents him from ever developing fully is still to be seen, but up and down he's a better prospect than Matt Ryan, when taking away "intangibles" (i hate that word, but it's the only one that is known for defining what it does).

When comparing the players, why would you "take away" anything? Jeff George was a better prospects than Joe Montana when you discount "intangibles".

I don't care if someone thinks Flacco will ultimately be better, but I don't see a shred of evidence suggesting as much.

d34ng3l021
11-09-2008, 11:06 PM
Him not being in a better situation only further values what he has shown this year. Like i stated earlier, he's made the biggest adjustments and has looked very well. Whether his team prevents him from ever developing fully is still to be seen, but up and down he's a better prospect than Matt Ryan, when taking away "intangibles" (i hate that word, but it's the only one that is known for defining what it does).

You can't just take away the "intangibles" part of a prospect. Its what differentiates Peyton Manning from Ryan Leaf. More important than how far you can throw downfield is how you respond to pressure situations, lead a team, decisions you make. Ryan has one huge leg up on Flacco in those regards.

ChezPower4
11-09-2008, 11:08 PM
Fail as in, you wasted a second round pick on a guy that will most likely never be your franchise quarterback.

We didn't draft Brohm with the intent of him being our franchise QB. If he can develop in to a solid backup I see no way that the pick we spent on him is a waste.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:09 PM
Intangibles are something a lot of evaluators do not like, but they sure do help.

And everyone talks so much about Matt Ryan's supporting cast. I'll say this: if Ben Roethlisberger was at quarterback we would have allowed 30 sacks by now. Matt Ryan does an amazing job of getting the ball off. He pushes the safties back with his vertical passing game. Coming into the year he had one good receiver, him being Roddy White. Jenkins was viewed as a bust, Douglas as a draft reach. Laurent Robinson hasn't played much at all. Our tight ends are average at best.

Simply put, Matt Ryan makes his supporting cast look a lot better than it really is.

Roethlisberger would take 30 sacks because he wears glue on his gloves when in the pocket. I'm not taking anything away from Matt Ryan, but Joe Flacco dreams of the day he can play with someone of Roddy White's caliber. The running game is a wash, but even Michael Jenkins is making some pretty good plays for them.

What i'm impressed with Flacco is his physical ability and the adjustments he has made coming from his program (stating this for the third time). Seeing that, i feel that should the Ravens bring some decent WR's for him, he'll be a very good quarterback, and ultimately better than Matt Ryan.

When comparing the players, why would you "take away" anything? Jeff George was a better prospects than Joe Montana when you discount "intangibles".

I don't care if someone thinks Flacco will ultimately be better, but I don't see a shred of evidence suggesting as much.

Okay.

I doubt Green Bay expected Rodgers to be as good as he's been.

That's why it's a failed experiment now.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:10 PM
We didn't draft Brohm with the intent of him being our franchise QB. If he can develop in to a solid backup I see no way that the pick we spent on him is a waste.

When is the last time someone spent a second rounder on a quarterback with the intention of him being a serviceable backup?

BamaFalcon59
11-09-2008, 11:11 PM
Roethlisberger would take 30 sacks because he wears glue on his gloves when in the pocket. I'm not taking anything away from Matt Ryan, but Joe Flacco dreams of the day he can play with someone of Roddy White's caliber. The running game is a wash, but even Michael Jenkins is making some pretty good plays for them.

What i'm impressed with Flacco is his physical ability and the adjustments he has made coming from his program (stating this for the third time). Seeing that, i feel that should the Ravens bring some decent WR's for him, he'll be a very good quarterback, and ultimately better than Matt Ryan.



Okay.



That's why it's a failed experiment now.

Flacco has a deeper receiving core, a better offensive line, and a better tight end. The only thing Matt Ryan has above him is a better running game and a number one receiver.

Their surroundings are a wash and, unlike Flacco, Ryan has to pass and lead his team to victory often.

Bengalsrocket
11-09-2008, 11:11 PM
We didn't draft Brohm with the intent of him being our franchise QB. If he can develop in to a solid backup I see no way that the pick we spent on him is a waste.

I disagree. I hope for the sake of your franchise that you drafted Brohm as an insurance policy rather than a career back up.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:11 PM
You can't just take away the "intangibles" part of a prospect. Its what differentiates Peyton Manning from Ryan Leaf. More important than how far you can throw downfield is how you respond to pressure situations, lead a team, decisions you make. Ryan has one huge leg up on Flacco in those regards.

I'm not undervaluing "intangibles". I'm conceding that Ryan leads by leaps and bounds in that category, but Flacco is a more talented player. Let's not short-change Flacco either. He has been very good, and has put his team in a position to succeed after jumping from Delaware in a spread to the NFL.

BamaFalcon59
11-09-2008, 11:12 PM
When is the last time someone spent a second rounder on a quarterback with the intention of him being a serviceable backup?

The Falcons spent a high third on Matt Schaub for just that reason.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:12 PM
Flacco has a deeper receiving core, a better offensive line, and a better tight end. The only thing Matt Ryan has above him is a better running game and a number one receiver.

Their surroundings are a wash and, unlike Flacco, Ryan has to pass and lead his team to victory often.

I'll take Roddy White and Michael Jenkins any and every day over Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton. Up until today, Todd Heap was invisible in that offense.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:14 PM
The Falcons spent a high third on Matt Schaub for just that reason.

Well being #56 is a lot different from being #90.

And the Falcons turned that into two second round picks, so they're good.

BamaFalcon59
11-09-2008, 11:15 PM
I'll take Roddy White and Michael Jenkins any and every day over Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton. Up until today, Todd Heap was invisible in that offense.

Heap most likely still has a huge advantage on Justin Peele and Ben Hartsock.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:16 PM
Heap most likely still has a huge advantage on Justin Peele and Ben Hartsock.

Not saying he doesn't, but what good is Heap if he's not being used. You can't put that on Flacco.

BamaFalcon59
11-09-2008, 11:18 PM
Well being #56 is a lot different from being #90.

And the Falcons turned that into two second round picks, so they're good.

Whose to say the Packers won't do that with Brohm? The point is that something similar has been done.

I don't really agree with it, but it's nice to have a solid backup. Especially if the starting QB has a season ending injury.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:19 PM
Whose to say the Packers won't do that with Brohm? The point is that something similar has been done.

I don't really agree with it, but it's nice to have a solid backup. Especially if the starting QB has a season ending injury.

Okay, it was done once before. Woop-dee-doo. I have a hard time believing the Packers will get anything for Brohm, if he can't even beat out a seventh round pick for the back-up job.

And for the record, i said second round pick. Not third.

Twiddler
11-09-2008, 11:50 PM
Okay, it was done once before. Woop-dee-doo. I have a hard time believing the Packers will get anything for Brohm, if he can't even beat out a seventh round pick for the back-up job.

And for the record, i said second round pick. Not third.

I think you're looking a little too much into it. Yes, he was beat out for the second string job, but that's not saying that he'll never be a successful QB. He wouldn't be the first QB ever to take a decent amount of time to learn the offense and then look good in later preseasons, much like Aaron Rodgers has done as a Packer. Seriously, him struggling so far is not that big of a deal, so quit being so quick to assume that we'll never get anything for him. It's his first year.

MetSox17
11-09-2008, 11:55 PM
I think you're looking a little too much into it. Yes, he was beat out for the second string job, but that's not saying that he'll never be a successful QB. He wouldn't be the first QB ever to take a decent amount of time to learn the offense and then look good in later preseasons, much like Aaron Rodgers has done as a Packer. Seriously, him struggling so far is not that big of a deal, so quit being so quick to assume that we'll never get anything for him. It's his first year.

I'll gladly eat my words if it happens, but they'll never have leverage for Brohm on other teams, should Rodgers keep playing the way he does.

The Legend
11-10-2008, 07:05 AM
Way Too Early

Gay Ork Wang
11-10-2008, 07:12 AM
It's still hard to tell right now. Flacco is the superior athlete, though. He has prototypical size, a great arm, and better mobility. I think he has had the most to get acclimated to, coming from Delaware, in an offense where he was used mostly out of the shotgun. The odds were stacked against him being successful, and he has done a very admirable job. Ryan also has a better WR corps compared to Flacco's.

You can't really make a sound judgment right now, but if Flacco develops like he's showing he has the potential to, he'll be the better quarterback.

I like Flacco more than I like Ryan, but Ryan will be more successful because of a better supporting cast on offense. However, I think if McGahee gets going like I think he will, we are gonna see Flacco start to emerge even more.

Joe Flacco is the man!
I totally agree

Ravens1991
11-10-2008, 09:55 AM
I think both teams got a franchise QB and a pro bowler in the future. Flacco has the better physical tools, while Ryan was NFL ready. Ryan also has a better WR corp so that is why I feel he is doing better. I voted for Flacco but I am a bit biased. I think you really can't tell right now.

Ravens1991
11-10-2008, 10:05 AM
Flacco has a deeper receiving core, a better offensive line, and a better tight end. The only thing Matt Ryan has above him is a better running game and a number one receiver.

Their surroundings are a wash and, unlike Flacco, Ryan has to pass and lead his team to victory often.

Yes Flacco has a better line, but your WR corp is far better. With Dwill hurt we have no depth as well. Mason is good and Clayton is inconsistent. We had to put Yamon Figures at WR for the 1st time in a long time. Yes Heap is a better TE but he hasnt done anything in the passing game until yesterday, he looked horrible in the passing game until yesterday as well.

bigbluedefense
11-10-2008, 10:09 AM
If you asked me this before the draft, Id say Flacco easily. I was not a big Ryan fan, and thought he'd be a bust. Contrarily, I was a huge Flacco fan and thought he was the best qb in this draft class.

Fast forward to now, and I say Ryan is and will be better. Matt Ryan will win a SB. I feel very confident in that. Matt Ryan is having the best rookie year by a qb I have ever seen with my own eyes. His measurables knocks were grossly overrated, and so were his accuracy issues.

He reminds me so much of Eli, its not even funny. The guy has all the intangibles, is amazing at reading defenses, has the "it", he's clutch, he's a leader, he's humble, he has everything you look for. I always knew he had the intangibles, but I grossly underestimated his on field ability. He's the real deal.

Flacco contrarily, I was worried about. I figured he'd need to sit and learn, and I thought Baltimore was making a huge mistake throwing him into the fire so early coming out of IIA. Shockingly, he's growing at a much faster pace than I had imagined. Flacco is the real deal too, and he'll develop into a great player. Physically, he's better than Ryan, but that doesn't mean a thing. Flacco is going to be good, but I just think Ryan will be better.

Both have promising careers. Im a huge Matt Ryan fan now though. Its amazing how my stance on him has completely changed. Forget the fact that he's a rookie for a second. If you didn't know he was a rookie, you'd think he's playing like one of the better qbs in the entire league this year. He's playing as a top 10 qb as a rookie. Think about that.

What he's doing is absolutely amazing. His ability to comprehend the NFL so well this quickly is amazing. He's the real deal.

tjsunstein
11-10-2008, 12:37 PM
Fail as in, you wasted a second round pick on a guy that will most likely never be your franchise quarterback.

Ted Thompson doesn't waste picks. Give it time, he was drafted seven months ago. Epic fail is picking Troy Williamson 7th.

bigbluedefense
11-10-2008, 12:39 PM
With Rodgers getting dinged every now and then, having a good backup qb is not a bad thing. Brohm isn't done for yet, give it time. It doesn't happen overnight for everyone.

Rodgers himself wouldn't be half the player he is today if he was thrown into the fire.


Having a good backup qb is so important. I didn't realize that until this year. I personally like having a good savy serviceable vet backup, but those are not easy to find.

MetSox17
11-10-2008, 03:35 PM
With Rodgers getting dinged every now and then, having a good backup qb is not a bad thing. Brohm isn't done for yet, give it time. It doesn't happen overnight for everyone.

Rodgers himself wouldn't be half the player he is today if he was thrown into the fire.


Having a good backup qb is so important. I didn't realize that until this year. I personally like having a good savy serviceable vet backup, but those are not easy to find.

There's very little teams out there that have decent backups. In my opinion, there's only four teams out there with serviceable backups. (Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Cleveland, Washington). Add the Titans if you still count Kerry Collins a backup.

bigbluedefense
11-10-2008, 03:44 PM
There's very little teams out there that have decent backups. In my opinion, there's only four teams out there with serviceable backups. (Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Cleveland, Washington). Add the Titans if you still count Kerry Collins a backup.

Id say Pittsburgh, Arizona, Cleveland, Jets, Texans, Titans, Philly. thats about it.

Menardo75
11-10-2008, 03:44 PM
Both these QB's have suprised me. I did'nt think either of them would be this good this early.Flacco has really suprised me though. I thought given the situation he was coming out of, he would be the biggest project QB in the draft.

Id say Pittsburgh, Arizona, Cleveland, Jets, Texans, Titans, Philly. thats about it.

No David Carr love?

Menardo75
11-10-2008, 03:45 PM
Double post.

bigbluedefense
11-10-2008, 03:47 PM
Both these QB's have suprised me. I did'nt think either of them would be this good this early.Flacco has really suprised me though. I thought given the situation he was coming out of, he would be the biggest project QB in the draft.



No David Carr love?

I hate David Carr.

Gay Ork Wang
11-10-2008, 03:53 PM
Id say Pittsburgh, Arizona, Cleveland, Jets, Texans, Titans, Philly. thats about it.
Dont u hate on Sexy Rex

d34ng3l021
11-10-2008, 06:55 PM
Uh. Chris Redman is the best back up in the league guys.

MetSox17
11-11-2008, 12:16 AM
Id say Pittsburgh, Arizona, Cleveland, Jets, Texans, Titans, Philly. thats about it.

Matt Leinart really hasn't given me anything to say he's a good backup, nor has Kellen Clemens. Rosenfels looked horrible this past weekend, and who's Philly's backup? Kolb?

LonghornsLegend
11-11-2008, 01:12 AM
Gus Frerrotte deserves some mention, after all he was a back-up QB and has been for some time but still steps in and plays like a starter...Give Minny credit, without him their season goes down the drain, he's been one of the better back-ups in the NFL for a long time now.

d34ng3l021
11-11-2008, 01:50 AM
lol this topic went form flacco vs ryan to brohm to back up QBs. i love how its nicely transitioned too.

Dr. Gonzo
11-11-2008, 02:11 AM
Gus Frerrotte deserves some mention, after all he was a back-up QB and has been for some time but still steps in and plays like a starter...Give Minny credit, without him their season goes down the drain, he's been one of the better back-ups in the NFL for a long time now.

You are way off on this one. I liked on Minny a couple years back and yes, there have been games where he has played just well enough to not lose the teams games (barely), but most of the time he is horrible. I guess that says something about Tarvaris Jackson because really you have to be horrendous or a rookie (my excuse for JDB) to not be starting over Frerotte.

LonghornsLegend
11-11-2008, 09:38 AM
You are way off on this one. I liked on Minny a couple years back and yes, there have been games where he has played just well enough to not lose the teams games (barely), but most of the time he is horrible. I guess that says something about Tarvaris Jackson because really you have to be horrendous or a rookie (my excuse for JDB) to not be starting over Frerotte.

I guess I'm judging by having Brad Johnson at QB, but Gus has been able to hit Berrian on the deep route consistently and keep the chains moving, what more can you ask? I think our furthest pass was 14 yards, I believe it was the Saints game Gus had to stand in and take some shots downfield while getting hit to win that game so maybe it was just one game but the fact that back-up came in and won a game says alot.


Not only that, but his track record at Washington, Miami and the Rams and his other stints speak for themselves

CC.SD
11-11-2008, 09:50 AM
Ask the Colts if Volek is a decent option at backup QB. :)

MetSox17
11-11-2008, 10:58 AM
Ask the Colts if Volek is a decent option at backup QB. :)

No one cares about Volek or the Chargers, so don't bring him up.

Ravens1991
11-11-2008, 05:38 PM
I think some people are forgetting that Ryan was by far the more NFL ready QB in the draft so I am not surprised at all that he is doing better this year and Ryan hasn't tore up many top defenses as well. I think it is pretty close and it can go either way. It will be fun watching these guys play.

d34ng3l021
11-11-2008, 05:48 PM
I think some people are forgetting that Ryan was by far the more NFL ready QB in the draft so I am not surprised at all that he is doing better this year and Ryan hasn't tore up many top defenses as well. I think it is pretty close and it can go either way. It will be fun watching these guys play.

Regardless of being NFL ready or not, a rookie QB should not be putting up the numbers Ryan has. His TD-INT ratio is 9th in the league. YPA is 8th. QB rating is 11th. He has only fumbled the ball twice, and lost it once. Yeah he has a great running game, but some of the throws and decisions he makes are phenomenal.

Ravens1991
11-11-2008, 06:02 PM
yes he is good, but still I am just saying I am not shocked at all that he is doing better then Flacco since he was the more NFL ready prospect.

BmoreBlackByrdz
11-11-2008, 06:30 PM
True, Flacco is making great improvments week to week but I wouldnt take anything away from Ryan either, I really wanted him on the Ravens and I was shocked when we took Flacco in the first round and I really thought that Flacco was BollerV2. As of now, its way to early to compare the 2 but I think this thread should be made in 2 years, maybe 1 since both these guys are very smart and quick learners. but ya gatta give credit to both for doing what they are doing with alot of odds against them. BTW, I voted Flacco (cause the homer in me) and he had much more of a learning curve to get over compared to Ryan and he doesn't have a WR core like Ryan either...

LonghornsLegend
11-11-2008, 10:13 PM
I think some people are forgetting that Ryan was by far the more NFL ready QB in the draft so I am not surprised at all that he is doing better this year and Ryan hasn't tore up many top defenses as well. I think it is pretty close and it can go either way. It will be fun watching these guys play.

That's why the poll is going to be mis-leading right now, we have seen how many times people have changed their order of Ben/Rivers/Eli since they are drafted, it's really not fair to judge who will be the better player this early because what they are both doing is so impressive...Flacco's learning curve was steeper but everyone expected that and it's looking like it's not as bad as people thought.



What I really like is both QB's were put into good positions, Ryan has a running game, high picks invested in the line, and an elite playmaker, Flacco has one of the best defenses in the league and if he can continue to make plays in the air and not make mistakes the sky is the limit for that team...Teams rarely score more then 20 on the Ravens, if he can put 3 scores on the board I like their chance to win each game.

Dr. Gonzo
11-12-2008, 01:23 PM
I guess I'm judging by having Brad Johnson at QB, but Gus has been able to hit Berrian on the deep route consistently and keep the chains moving, what more can you ask? I think our furthest pass was 14 yards, I believe it was the Saints game Gus had to stand in and take some shots downfield while getting hit to win that game so maybe it was just one game but the fact that back-up came in and won a game says alot.


Not only that, but his track record at Washington, Miami and the Rams and his other stints speak for themselves

I probably guve Gus a lot less credit than he deserves. I still think he is a below average QB in the league and makes too many damn mistakes but he has been a fairly good backup for teams. As for Brad Johnson it baffles me as to why the Cowboys pick up a QB would could not even make the Vikings roster 3 years ago when our QB's were even worse than they are now. Johnson is a horrible, horrible QB at this point in his career. To top it of the Cowboys pick up another QB in Bollinger who also could not make our roster.

Bucs_Rule
11-12-2008, 08:03 PM
Why waste money on backups when you have Tony Romo?

BamaFalcon59
11-12-2008, 08:11 PM
I'd just like to take this post and say Matt Ryan is the next great NFL quarterback.

Sniper
11-12-2008, 08:12 PM
I'd just like to take this post and say Matt Ryan is the next great NFL quarterback.

How exactly does this differ from your other posts?

d34ng3l021
11-12-2008, 08:13 PM
How exactly does this differ from your other posts?

Sick burn.

BamaFalcon59
11-12-2008, 08:13 PM
How exactly does this differ from your other posts?

That was one of the quickest responses I have ever seen for one of my posts.

Just reitterating it.

Smokey Joe
11-12-2008, 08:25 PM
Flacco has the potential to be better, IMO, but Ryan is in just an overall better situation as of now. It will be a while before we see, but I think it will be Flacco, What he is doing in the NFL now after being in the FCS is much more impressive than what Ryan is doing.

BamaFalcon59
11-12-2008, 08:36 PM
Everyone talked about how bad Matt Ryan's situation was, but now it's so great. The thing is, he is making his supporting cast look good.

RB: Legitimate talents in Norwood and Michael Turner.
WR: Roddy White is the only true talent here. Jenkins is decent, but nothing special. Laurent Robinson hasn't been on the field much at all. Harry Douglas is young and talented, but hasn't done much. Brian Finneran gets playing time, off of two torn alterior cruial ligimates (spelling), so the group obviously isn't deep.
TE: Justin Peele and Ben Hartsock. Decent second string players, not starters.
OL: Sam Baker is good, but he's always hurt. Todd Weiner, Justin Blalock, Todd McClure, Harvey Dahl, Tyson Clabo. Enough said.
FB: Ovie Mughelli is good.

Basically, this offense has about three good weapons for Ryan (White, Turner, Norwood). The rest, prior to this season, were nobodies. Ryan hits them in the chest with passes and gets the ball off to make the offensive line look good. The whole 'has a good supporting cast' deal is false. We could conceivably draft WR, TE, OT, OG, or C in the first two rounds of the draft.

And Flacco hasn't been more impressive. He has been a good rookie. Ryan has been a top ten QB. Ryan has a 90 passer rating. He is a great QB.

I didn't mean for that to be a rant, it just ended up that way.

d34ng3l021
11-12-2008, 09:05 PM
Yeah the supporting cast is helping Ryan, but the only guy who is truly better on the Falcons offense is Roddy White. Michael Jenkins never eclipsed 530 yards and averaged 10 and 11 yards in his past 2 seasons. Tyson Clabo and Harvey Dahl: UDFAs. The rushing attack is also a push.

Ravens1991
11-12-2008, 09:16 PM
I would take Turner and Norwood slightly over McClain Rice and McGahee, just because McGahee hsnt done crap this season, if McGahee shows consistensy and some heart I would agree it is a push.

d34ng3l021
11-12-2008, 09:21 PM
I would take Turner and Norwood over them to, but the Ravens average 150 yards per game on the ground and the Falcons average 160. Not much of a difference.

LonghornsLegend
11-12-2008, 09:24 PM
Basically, this offense has about three good weapons for Ryan (White, Turner, Norwood). The rest, prior to this season, were nobodies. Ryan hits them in the chest with passes and gets the ball off to make the offensive line look good. The whole 'has a good supporting cast' deal is false. We could conceivably draft WR, TE, OT, OG, or C in the first two rounds of the draft.

And Flacco hasn't been more impressive. He has been a good rookie. Ryan has been a top ten QB. Ryan has a 90 passer rating. He is a great QB.

I didn't mean for that to be a rant, it just ended up that way.



That's still more playmakers then the Ravens have, it's not like it's a huge margin but I would take both the Falcons RB's and top WR over the same positions for the Ravens and it's not even close.


That's not a fault to Ryan by any means, but it's still the truth...And the last part, there probably wasn't a soul who felt if Flacco started immediately he would perform, or look better then Ryan in the short term...As shown those 3 playmakers you listed can score any time they touch the ball, add to the fact that Ryan was alot more NFL ready and it's easy to see why he's done better.


I don't even think we should be judging these guys but performance up to this point, just for the sake of argument(not mine personally) you could say Ryan will be better in the short term and Flacco better in the long term with a higher ceiling, so if that's the case we wouldn't really know until 3 years in most likely.


Hell the Ravens wanted Matt Ryan themselves, but pointing out how much better Ryan has looked so far is no big shocker, I'm really just as shocked Flacco has grasped the offense as quickly as he has coming from D1AA.

Menardo75
11-13-2008, 01:45 AM
A healthy Todd Heap would be about all the Ravens would have over the Falcons skill guys.

Ravens1991
11-13-2008, 12:58 PM
Heap is healthy, he was dropping everything in the small amount of catch opportunities he had until Texans. Ryan has a WR that can take it to the house every play, something Flacco doesn't. Flacco has 2 #2s and Ryan has a true #1 who is a top WR.

Menardo75
11-13-2008, 01:52 PM
Heap is healthy, he was dropping everything in the small amount of catch opportunities he had until Texans. Ryan has a WR that can take it to the house every play, something Flacco doesn't. Flacco has 2 #2s and Ryan has a true #1 who is a top WR.

Do you think Figures could emerge as a number 1?

Ravens1991
11-13-2008, 01:56 PM
no he is very light, he hasnt shown anything except him being good w/ a fly route due to his amazing speed. I dont think we have anyone who can be a #1 WR.

giantsfan
11-13-2008, 02:00 PM
An elite WR does so much for a passing game in terms of creating more space for the other receivers and giving a QB, especially a young QB, a go to guy in crucial situations. Ryan's doing great, but he does have some of the most important pieces in position. Really if only he had a top offensive line he'd be in an ideal situation for a young QB.

Flacco on the otherhand hasn't been doing as much but he's been doing it with less, once the ravens start starting DWill and add a top WR Flacco will be in a similar or even better position since his oline is further along, but I'd still take Ryan's situation over flacco's for a young QB who can get the ball out quickly.

Menardo75
11-13-2008, 02:05 PM
no he is very light, he hasnt shown anything except him being good w/ a fly route due to his amazing speed. I dont think we have anyone who can be a #1 WR.

Oh ok, do you think that Heap will regain his pro bowl form any time soon?

BmoreBlackByrdz
11-13-2008, 02:10 PM
^^ Well, in Cam Camerons offense, he uses Heap more as a blocker than a catcher, and thats odd because he used Antonio Gates totally differently in San Diego. So if we continue using him as a blocker I guess his numbers will never be what they one were but Im sure we will utilize him more in the pass game, especially since Mason might not be playign against New York. I really want Flacco and him to develope some chemistry because unlike Mason, Heap will be here alot longer.

Menardo75
11-13-2008, 02:13 PM
^^ Well, in Cam Camerons offense, he uses Heap more as a blocker than a catcher, and thats odd because he used Antonio Gates totally differently in San Diego. So if we continue using him as a blocker I guess his numbers will never be what they one were but Im sure we will utilize him more in the pass game, especially since Mason might not be playign against New York. I really want Flacco and him to develope some chemistry because unlike Mason, Heap will be here alot longer.

I hope they start throwing to him, because Heap was a total stud before his injuries. Do you think the Ravens will target a WR or a CB in the draft?

BmoreBlackByrdz
11-13-2008, 02:20 PM
Those are no doubt are #1 and #1b needs. I would prefer us take a WR seeing as how our well our depth is, at DB. But at the same time, Ive heard some rumors about C-Mac not being a Raven next year. If he is gone I think corner is a bigger need, but I doubt Vontae Davis or Malcolm Jenkins will fall to us. For WR's Id LOVE Crabtree but he will be long gone. Im not so sure about Jeremy Maclin but if he is gone, Id love Derrius Heyward-Bey.

Menardo75
11-13-2008, 02:22 PM
Alright nice is Demitrius Williams too inconsistant to be a number one or whats with him?

ccB
11-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Seeing as how Ryan was looked at as a number 1 overall pick and most people thought Flacco was a reach and should of been taking in the 2nd round, I'd say its a push as far as expectations are going. Ryan was expected to do more than Flacco, which he is. But Flacco is doing more than people expected him to at the same time. Both are exceeding expectations and as far as whose better right now of course it's Ryan but I'd hope he was doing better being selected in the first few picks of the draft.

All homerism aside I wanted Flacco more than Ryan (it was a value decision) and I like the the package he brings to the table more than Ryan's even if Ryan is performing better right now. Flacco's biggest knock was his high bust potential and so far it looks like he wont bust so I'll take his upside over Ryan's. But in the end none of us have a crystal ball so it's just a wait and see what happens process right now.

Right now Ryan is clearly playing better but as for the future who knows what happens. I am a sucker for physical tools and Flacco has every tool you could want out of a QB.

Ravens1991
11-13-2008, 02:38 PM
Alright nice is Demitrius Williams too inconsistant to be a number one or whats with him?

well I just think w/ his talent level he could be a decent #1 or a great #2, he does have the ability to be a play maker. I hope we can get any of the top 4 WR prospects (I am sure at least one will be at our pick) so we can have D-will, Clayton in the slot, the draft pick, and then rotate Yamon Figures in as a vertical threat.

Cliche Guevara
11-13-2008, 02:44 PM
Both are good but as of right now im taking flacco because hes done it with less offensive weapons

BmoreBlackByrdz
11-13-2008, 02:44 PM
Alright nice is Demitrius Williams too inconsistant to be a number one or whats with him?

When we drafted him, I was really high on D-Will, Hes got the talent there and showed potential in his 2 seasons but he has yet to put anything together he got injured this year and its a shame because we are starting to go vertical way more than we used to and thats where he excels. IMO the jury is still out on this guy and hes got more of a chance to succeed in our offense than Mark Clayton. Next year is going to be a big year for him and IMO, he will do great, because like I said earlier in this post, we are stretching the field more and going deep and that where hsi talent is.

Menardo75
11-13-2008, 02:50 PM
Alright awesome good info guys. I was not sure about the Flacco pick since I thought he was the most risky of all the QBs. Really good thing that he has panned out so far very plesant suprise.

d34ng3l021
11-13-2008, 02:58 PM
I know Ryan is 'expected' to do better, but here are just some statistics I would like to point out. He isn't doing well for a rookie QB. He is doing well for a starting QB, period.

Matt Ryan statistics.

8th in YPA with 7.6 (tied with Jay Cutler)
10th in 1st down percentage with 35.2%
9th (including Romo and Orton) in TD-INT ratio (starting QBs)
11th in QB rating

I do not know where his 1 fumble lost and 2 fumbles total rank, but here are other top passers this season and their numbers. A % with number of pass attempts would be nice, but I do not want to calculate that. Player Name (Fumbles, Fumbles lost)

Aaron Rodgers (7,3). Drew Brees (6,1)(wow), Tony Romo (6 GP) (6,3). Phillip Rivers (2,2). Kurt Warner (6,4). Chad Pennington (1,0). Jason Campbell (3,1). Matt Schaub (8,3). Kyle Orton (4,3). Donavan McNabb (4,2).

Now imagine had Ryan not thrown those redzone picks and they were TDs (at least the GB one should have been for sure). His TD-INT ratio would have been 12-4 or 13-3. Damn.

Ravens1991
11-13-2008, 03:05 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/joeflacco/profile?id=FLA009602

in the upper right hand corner there is a video of mayock talking about the QB

ccB
11-13-2008, 03:09 PM
I mean if you want to look at stats, Joe Flacco's last 4 games (I know its against poor teams but still coming from a guy who played at Delaware last year these are still imrpessive.)

107.7 QB rating 805 yards 6 TD's 0 INT's

Thats nothing to be sad about. It really shows me something that he could rebound from those 3 bad games and put up numbers like this. I am not saying these numbers alone makes him better than Ryan, just saying Flaccos been on fire. I am sure it will decline with our tough road ahead but it gives people an idea of what this guy is capable of.

FalconTown83
11-13-2008, 04:54 PM
Is there really any evidence that one will be better than the other? Flacco hasn't been giving up the ball like he was earlier this year lately, but Ryan has been just insane with the ice water running through his veins.

It's FAR too early to call it on this one, but if Baltimore can keep that insane defense alive and keeping them in games, then Flacco can be a game manager and win a superbowl. That defense by itself isn't going to lose any games for you.

This year it's not really close, but Ryan had a 'headstart' by playing D1 ball (which Flacco did too, under a great QB guy @ Pitt, before moving to D2 ball) It's going to be a few years before we can call this race, and even then it is prolly going to be one of those things that is debated for years and years. I'm just glad the Falcons get to be in on the discussion.

Sniper
11-13-2008, 05:35 PM
Is there really any evidence that one will be better than the other? Flacco hasn't been giving up the ball like he was earlier this year lately, but Ryan has been just insane with the ice water running through his veins.

It's FAR too early to call it on this one, but if Baltimore can keep that insane defense alive and keeping them in games, then Flacco can be a game manager and win a superbowl. That defense by itself isn't going to lose any games for you.

This year it's not really close, but Ryan had a 'headstart' by playing D1 ball (which Flacco did too, under a great QB guy @ Pitt, before moving to D2 ball) It's going to be a few years before we can call this race, and even then it is prolly going to be one of those things that is debated for years and years. I'm just glad the Falcons get to be in on the discussion.

Flacco never played Division II.

Sniper
11-13-2008, 05:38 PM
Stunningly, a new Falcons fan shows up on the boards after iloxygenil gets banned....

BamaFalcon59
11-13-2008, 05:44 PM
Stunningly, a new Falcons fan shows up on the boards after iloxygenil gets banned....

OMGosh I knew there was something up with that new guy. Wow. I am suprised I didn't figure that out myself.

d34ng3l021
11-13-2008, 06:11 PM
Stunningly, a new Falcons fan shows up on the boards after iloxygenil gets banned....

You think so? They seem like different posters. iloxy was a little *****.

Sniper
11-13-2008, 06:46 PM
You think so? They seem like different posters. iloxy was a little *****.

Falcons is only 7 posts in. Give it time.

BBIB
11-14-2008, 01:33 PM
Matt Ryan looks like the better QB now and he has the better cast.

Don't see that changing.

BmoreBlackByrdz
11-15-2008, 02:33 PM
Ask yourself this- If Flacco was in Matt Ryans spot and Matt Ryan was in Flaccos would they have the same numbers or would one or the other excel? Who'd be better then? Flacco gets the top 10 WR and explosive run game and Ryan gets the elite defense with a solid run game

BamaFalcon59
11-15-2008, 03:53 PM
If Baltimore had Matt Ryan they may be undefeated.

If Atlanta had Joe Flacco they would have more losses, easy. I would say they would be 3-6.

princefielder28
11-15-2008, 04:01 PM
If Baltimore had Matt Ryan they may be undefeated.

If Atlanta had Joe Flacco they would have more losses, easy. I would say they would be 3-6.

I don't think that'd be the case. Ryan has played very well so far but there is no way that he would have the Ravens sniffing a perfect season thus far. IMO, Flacco would be doing just as well in Atlanta and Ryan's stats and performance would be slightly lower if he was a Raven.

MetSox17
11-15-2008, 04:23 PM
I don't think that'd be the case. Ryan has played very well so far but there is no way that he would have the Ravens sniffing a perfect season thus far. IMO, Flacco would be doing just as well in Atlanta and Ryan's stats and performance would be slightly lower if he was a Raven.

Yeah, you can't really make those crazy assumptions. All we have to work with is Ryan in ATL and Flacco in BAL

princefielder28
11-15-2008, 04:25 PM
Yeah, you can't really make those crazy assumptions. All we have to work with is Ryan in ATL and Flacco in BAL

Bama was just revealing his inner homer

BmoreBlackByrdz
11-15-2008, 04:36 PM
LOL, but yeah I think nothing would change dramaticly but there numbers would be alot different. Flacco would be higher if he was in Ryans place and Ryans would be alot lower if he were a Raven.

MetSox17
11-15-2008, 04:40 PM
Bama was just revealing his inner homer

Oh i know.... i know.

DeathbyStat
11-15-2008, 04:46 PM
In Ryan I see a potentially elite player.

In Flacco a see a poorer version of Big Ben

Malaka
11-15-2008, 04:48 PM
I see Ryan as a very good player in this league, but not an elite one, a top ten QB, but never top 3. In Flacco I can see a potentially elite QB if he develops properly, if he does not he'll be an average to below average starting QB.

So basically Ryan's ceiling is lower but basement is higher, and Flacco's ceiling is higher but basement a lot lower, IMO.

MetSox17
11-15-2008, 04:51 PM
I see Ryan as a very good player in this league, but not an elite one, a top ten QB, but never top 3. In Flacco I can see a potentially elite QB if he develops properly, if he does not he'll be an average to below average starting QB.

So basically Ryan's ceiling is lower but floor is higher, and Flacco's ceiling is higher but floor a lot lower, IMO.

Fixed it for you lol.

Malaka
11-15-2008, 04:52 PM
Fixed it for you lol.

lol w/e you know what I meant :P

AussieBoy
11-15-2008, 04:53 PM
Ask yourself this- If Flacco was in Matt Ryans spot and Matt Ryan was in Flaccos would they have the same numbers or would one or the other excel? Who'd be better then? Flacco gets the top 10 WR and explosive run game and Ryan gets the elite defense with a solid run game

I'd be interested in how the numbers would look if JaMarcus Russell and Flacco had their situations switched.

d34ng3l021
11-15-2008, 05:13 PM
I see Ryan as a very good player in this league, but not an elite one, a top ten QB, but never top 3. In Flacco I can see a potentially elite QB if he develops properly, if he does not he'll be an average to below average starting QB.

So basically Ryan's ceiling is lower but basement is higher, and Flacco's ceiling is higher but basement a lot lower, IMO.

What makes you think that Ryan can never become a top 3 QB?

BamaFalcon59
11-15-2008, 05:33 PM
What makes you think that Ryan can never become a top 3 QB?

He's not 6'6" 240 and can't throw the ball through the goal posts on his knees.

Because that describes today's top three quarterbacks (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees). Sike.

Shiver
11-16-2008, 11:25 AM
He's not 6'6" 240 and can't throw the ball through the goal posts on his knees.

Because that describes today's top three quarterbacks (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees). Sike.


I see what you did there...

Malaka
11-16-2008, 11:34 AM
What makes you think that Ryan can never become a top 3 QB?

I just never see him becoming a huge stats monster, and I think he will be a very good QB, and probably lead the Falcons to a super bowl, he will be very good, but I don't think he will ever be elite, he reminds me of Tom Brady but Matt Ryan won't be in that offense that Brady was in and won't have a 50 TD season, while I do believe Matt Ryan will win a super bowl in his career he won't win more than one. Imagine Tom Brady without the 50 TD season and only 1 Super Bowl ring, he'd still be one of the better QBs in the league no? but not the elite one we consider him today, that is what I think Ryan will be.

d34ng3l021
11-16-2008, 11:50 AM
I just never see him becoming a huge stats monster, and I think he will be a very good QB, and probably lead the Falcons to a super bowl, he will be very good, but I don't think he will ever be elite, he reminds me of Tom Brady but Matt Ryan won't be in that offense that Brady was in and won't have a 50 TD season, while I do believe Matt Ryan will win a super bowl in his career he won't win more than one. Imagine Tom Brady without the 50 TD season and only 1 Super Bowl ring, he'd still be one of the better QBs in the league no? but not the elite one we consider him today, that is what I think Ryan will be.

So its just a hunch as of now? Thats cool.

Malaka
11-16-2008, 11:53 AM
So its just a hunch as of now? Thats cool.

Yeah, unless I am a prophet anything can happen, it is just what I think. Either way I think he will be good.

banetzdererste
11-16-2008, 12:01 PM
Look at my sig! Flacco is the man!
Ryan became the Starter First, but Flacco made great Games didn`t throw a INT since ____ Many? Attempts (I heard it when i watched the Houston vs. Ravens Game).

Ryan is now on Top! But in the Future Flacco will be the man.
I think the Ravens found the QB they looked for years.

Shiver
11-16-2008, 07:02 PM
I just never see him becoming a huge stats monster, and I think he will be a very good QB, and probably lead the Falcons to a super bowl, he will be very good, but I don't think he will ever be elite, he reminds me of Tom Brady but Matt Ryan won't be in that offense that Brady was in and won't have a 50 TD season, while I do believe Matt Ryan will win a super bowl in his career he won't win more than one. Imagine Tom Brady without the 50 TD season and only 1 Super Bowl ring, he'd still be one of the better QBs in the league no? but not the elite one we consider him today, that is what I think Ryan will be.


I had him as the best QB before his 50 TD season; stats are hardly reliable as the sole measurement for the player.

Malaka
11-17-2008, 07:17 PM
I had him as the best QB before his 50 TD season; stats are hardly reliable as the sole measurement for the player.

Well in my post I stated imagine Tom with only one super bowl ring and without the 50 TD season he'd still be one of the best not arguably the best. I did not just say without the 50 TD season because 3 super bowl rings > stats, I know that.

Homestar2281
11-17-2008, 09:26 PM
Matt Ryan FTW

Chucky
11-17-2008, 09:28 PM
Matt Ryan FTW

Iloxy, is that you?

BBIB
12-11-2008, 04:57 PM
I didn't think either would be succeeding. I'd have to go with Ryan. His cast looks more promising in terms of the future with Roddy White, Harry Douglas, and Laurent Robinson who hasn't even been used yet. Not to mention a Pro Bowl RB in Michael Turner and arguably the best backup RB in the league in Jerious Norwood who has essentially led the league in YPC every year he's been in the league.

Flacco has that defense but it's an aging one. And it's not going to give him offensive production.

So again, I'd have to go with Ryan. He looks like the better QB right now and is in the better situation (if the Falcon curse can be broken that is)

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
12-11-2008, 05:05 PM
I like Flacco more than I like Ryan, but Ryan will be more successful because of a better supporting cast on offense. However, I think if McGahee gets going like I think he will, we are gonna see Flacco start to emerge even more.

well why would we need mcgahee to get it going our run game is top 4 in the league ravens need a wr and flacco will be monster

bigbluedefense
12-12-2008, 12:36 PM
While the numbers may indicate that Ryan and Flacco are comparable, they really are not.

Just watch both of them play, Ryan is light years ahead of Flacco. Not taking anything away from Flacco, he's playing 10X better than I thought he would as a rookie out of the gates, but right here right now Ryan is clearly better.

Matt Ryan quite frankly, is the best rookie qb ive ever seen. He's amazing. I guarantee this guy wins a SB by the end of his career. Id put him as a top 10 qb in this league as a rookie. Id take him over a lot of "established" veterans currently.

I think within 2 years he'll establish himself as a top 5 qb in this league.

I was so wrong about Ryan, it isn't even funny. The guy is a flat out stud.

ccB
12-12-2008, 02:05 PM
While the numbers may indicate that Ryan and Flacco are comparable, they really are not.

Just watch both of them play, Ryan is light years ahead of Flacco. Not taking anything away from Flacco, he's playing 10X better than I thought he would as a rookie out of the gates, but right here right now Ryan is clearly better.

Matt Ryan quite frankly, is the best rookie qb ive ever seen. He's amazing. I guarantee this guy wins a SB by the end of his career. Id put him as a top 10 qb in this league as a rookie. Id take him over a lot of "established" veterans currently.

I think within 2 years he'll establish himself as a top 5 qb in this league.

I was so wrong about Ryan, it isn't even funny. The guy is a flat out stud.

Not saying Flacco is better but they are comparable. They are not separated by "Light years" like you say (WTF does that mean anyway? Ryan is Montana and Flacco is Leaf? Thats what I think of when I think of Light years better). Joe Flacco has had just as big, if not a bigger impact on the Ravens offense than Ryan has had on the Falcons. Ryan is better now but he was supposed to be better, I would say Flacco is the more surprising QB this season. They are both performing well, Ryan of course is better right now but he should be, thats why he was looked at as a potential #1 overall pick and Joe Flacco was looked at as a fringe 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder.

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
12-12-2008, 02:17 PM
Not saying Flacco is better but they are comparable. They are not separated by "Light years" like you say (WTF does that mean anyway? Ryan is Montana and Flacco is Leaf? Thats what I think of when I think of Light years better). Joe Flacco has had just as big, if not a bigger impact on the Ravens offense than Ryan has had on the Falcons. Ryan is better now but he was supposed to be better, I would say Flacco is the more surprising QB this season. They are both performing well, Ryan of course is better right now but he should be, thats why he was looked at as a potential #1 overall pick and Joe Flacco was looked at as a fringe 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder.

def agree with that

BmoreBlackByrdz
12-12-2008, 02:37 PM
^yeah, Flacco had wayy more to overcome and learn than Ryan, coming out of Division I-AA to the NFL is huge difference and its not likely that you have the success Flacco is having in your first year. Plus, look at his WR corps and compare it to Ryan's. clearly Ryans is better however, there numbers (flacco & ryan) they arent that far apart. So I can't see how Ryan is "light years" ahead of Flacco. However I will say that Ryan is the better QB, its just not a blowout.

d34ng3l021
12-12-2008, 03:12 PM
Not saying Flacco is better but they are comparable. They are not separated by "Light years" like you say (WTF does that mean anyway? Ryan is Montana and Flacco is Leaf? Thats what I think of when I think of Light years better). Joe Flacco has had just as big, if not a bigger impact on the Ravens offense than Ryan has had on the Falcons. Ryan is better now but he was supposed to be better, I would say Flacco is the more surprising QB this season. They are both performing well, Ryan of course is better right now but he should be, thats why he was looked at as a potential #1 overall pick and Joe Flacco was looked at as a fringe 1st rounder/early 2nd rounder.

Maybe Light years is not the right word, but the difference between them is definitely not shown by the stats. What Ryan is doing is far more impressive, though it may not be more surprising. Ryan is runs the no huddle in opposing domes, and successfully. He changes the play at the LOS quite a bit after reading the defense (his first play, he changed the route at the LOS and it went for a 62 yard TD). He seems to know exactly where to go with the ball and the number of rookie mistakes he has made could be counted on the fingers of one of my hands. Ryan is asked to make plays and drive his team downfield and seemingly always delivers. I know highlights are not a good judgment of a player, but watch his highlights against the Saints (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d1a194) and the situations he is put under (numerous 3rd and longs, including a 3rd and 11 at their 1 and a 3rd and 21 after 2 holding penalties)

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
12-12-2008, 03:21 PM
Maybe Light years is not the right word, but the difference between them is definitely not shown by the stats. What Ryan is doing is far more impressive, though it may not be more surprising. Ryan is runs the no huddle in opposing domes, and successfully. He changes the play at the LOS quite a bit after reading the defense (his first play, he changed the route at the LOS and it went for a 62 yard TD). He seems to know exactly where to go with the ball and the number of rookie mistakes he has made could be counted on the fingers of one of my hands. Ryan is asked to make plays and drive his team downfield and seemingly always delivers. I know highlights are not a good judgment of a player, but watch his highlights against the Saints (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80d1a194) and the situations he is put under (numerous 3rd and longs, including a 3rd and 11 at their 1 and a 3rd and 21 after 2 holding penalties)




no one is saying flacco is better but saying that he wasn't supposed to as good as he is.....ryan was supposed to be a good qb....well at least better than ryan but flacco has done alot with less offense and hes more athletic and he can make plays out the pocket

d34ng3l021
12-12-2008, 03:26 PM
no one is saying flacco is better but saying that he wasn't supposed to as good as he is.....ryan was supposed to be a good qb....well at least better than ryan but flacco has done alot with less offense and hes more athletic and he can make plays out the pocket

I know no one is saying Flacco is better. I, with bbd, think that the difference between the two is much more than the stats represent. As for what was supposed to happen...no QB is supposed to be good their rookie season. In that sense, Flacco is a lot more surprising but Ryan has been much more impressive which may be expected but whatever.

I got carried away with italics. sorry.

bigbluedefense
12-12-2008, 04:28 PM
Let me clarify my stance.

To me, yes, Ryan is light years ahead.

He does a much better job of reading defenses, he runs a more complex offense, he does a much better job adjusting pass protection, hitting his hot routes, 2 minute drill...every facet of the game mentally.

Flacco is playing great, and better than I expected, but what he's asked to do is no where near what Ryan is asked to do. And he often times escapes poor decisions/plays by either his rocket arm or by his defense.

Flacco needs a good 2 years to really work on his craft. he's still very green, whereas Ryan stepped in and has the mental aspect of the game down cold almost right away.

Ive always said, to me the singular most important aspect of playing qb is reading defenses. And yes, Ryan is light years ahead of Flacco in doing that.

thats to take nothing away from Flacco. i said before the draft that I felt Flacco was the best qb in this draft class. and the guy has tons of potential, but i also think that his #s grossly exaggerate how well he's played this year.

quite frankly, his play this year isn't as good as the #s indicate. he has the luxury of getting away with it bc of that defense though.

Like i said, go watch Ryan play, then go watch Flacco play. Ryan is clearly the better qb right here right now.

Thats all im saying. Im not saying Flacco sucks or anything. But don't let his stats and his numbers lie to you, he's playing well, but not as well as theyd lead you to believe.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-12-2008, 04:40 PM
I have to agree with BBD. You watch Matt Ryan and the anticipation and quickness and aptness of his reads immediately stands out at you. It's the same thing that always made Peyton Manning my favorite quarterback to watch. Ryan is already playing like you hope the young quarterback on your team will play when the "light comes on" or "he puts it all together". Ryan seemed to hit that point immediately. I really like him coming into this past draft, but there's no way I could have predicted he'd be this good this quick.

Flacco is, at times, playing really well. But there are times he looks lost and his confidence crumbles a bit. At his best, he looks like a great deep passer with strong athleticism and decent decision making. At his worst, he looks a bit like a guy who's in a little over his head. Those bad times will pass, to be sure. Baltimore seems to have found their franchise passer (and if they get a good deep threat on that team, watch out.). But, in watching them, there's no doubt in my mind that Ryan is the more impressive right now.

BBD is right. He's the most impressive rookie quarterback I've ever seen.

Ravens1991
12-12-2008, 08:45 PM
I agree Ryan is the better QB now, but every bum on the street knew that since the draft. It is really impossible to say who will be the better QB, but I think both teams got franchise QB so that is good for them.

Bosanac01
12-12-2008, 10:50 PM
My vote obviously went to Matt Ryan. Im just glad we are witnessing two great rookie QB in the same year, future looks bright and the situations are great for both players.

jkpigskin
12-13-2008, 12:23 PM
i would agree that matt ryan is a much polished QB at this moment.

but one thing that has really impressed me about joe flacco is his poise. he doesnt get rattled. I dont know wat you mean when his confience gets shaken... the only time i saw that was his preseason debut. since then... he's been joe o so cool...