Utah vs. Boise State National Championship?

[CroomDawgs]

Lets say in hypotheticals that Bama and Tech both drop one and Boise and Utah win out. What are the odds that thats the National Title? I mean both would be undefeated and have done all they can to prove they belong ,where as everyone else lost. In that scneraio, would that be the title game or would the BCS screw them out.

Also I think were this to happen a playoff system would be imediately put in.

[DeathbyStat]

First off this won't happen and second if this happened a playoff system still wouldn't be implemented.


I do have one question. If both Utah and Boise win out is the BCS obligated to put both teams in a bcs game?

[dabears10]

Lets say in hypotheticals that Bama and Tech both drop one and Boise and Utah win out. What are the odds that thats the National Title? I mean both would be undefeated and have done all they can to prove they belong ,where as everyone else lost. In that scneraio, would that be the title game or would the BCS screw them out.

Also I think were this to happen a playoff system would be imediately put in.

Every team will have to lose 2 games. Even then I may not see Utah, Boise in the top 2 spots. I mean BCS relies on polls and I don't see a likely scenario where pollsters would put those guys in the top 5 let alone top 2.

[LonghornsLegend]

0% chance we ever see two mid major teams in a National Championship.

[SuperKevin]

If two non-BCS teams win out, only the team ranked higher in the BCS standings gets a BCS bid

[DragonFireKai]

Lets say in hypotheticals that Bama and Tech both drop one and Boise and Utah win out. What are the odds that thats the National Title? I mean both would be undefeated and have done all they can to prove they belong ,where as everyone else lost. In that scneraio, would that be the title game or would the BCS screw them out.

Also I think were this to happen a playoff system would be imediately put in.

You say screw them out as if they would have deserved to have been in it.

[bored of education]

ughhhhhhhhhh

that will happen just like the Chiefs v. Lions Super Bowl this year

[diabsoule]

All the more reason for Boise St. to join the MWC.

[SuperKevin]

All the more reason for Boise St. to join the MWC.

They won't leave the safety and security of the WAC.

[SuperKevin]

I'm going to see Utah play SDSU this Saturday.

[diabsoule]

They won't leave the safety and security of the WAC.

That's true. It's a conference that they're almost guaranteed to win everywhere.

But imagine if the MWC looked like this:

Air Force
Brigham Young University
Boise State (formerly of the WAC)
Colorado State
Fresno State (formerly of the WAC)
San Diego State
Texas Christian University
University of Nevada-Las Vegas
University of New Mexico
University of Tulsa (formerly of C-USA)
University of Utah
Wyoming

[SuperKevin]

That's true. It's a conference that they're almost guaranteed to win everywhere.

But imagine if the MWC looked like this:

Air Force
Brigham Young University
Boise State (formerly of the WAC)
Colorado State
Fresno State (formerly of the WAC)
San Diego State
Texas Christian University
University of Nevada-Las Vegas
University of New Mexico
University of Tulsa (formerly of C-USA)
University of Utah
Wyoming

It'd be bad for everyone. They'd be a mid major conference where the champion would likely lose 2-3 conference games.

[Menardo75]

They won't leave the safety and security of the WAC.

Im still hoping they join the Pac - 10

[Turtlepower]

Im still hoping they join the Pac - 10

Why? Adding 12 teams just creates more bottom feeders and you end up losing competitiveness.

[DragonFireKai]

Im still hoping they join the Pac - 10

It'll never happen, the Pac 10's at a stable state.

[Turtlepower]

It'll never happen, the Pac 10's at a stable state.

Though I wouldn't mind just abolishing Washington State for a couple years...

[DragonFireKai]

Though I wouldn't mind just abolishing Washington State for a couple years...

They'll get better. Look at Ole Miss last year. Not a single win in conference play. Look at Ole Miss this year. Beat Florida in the Swamp. At the very least, they can't get any worse. Although I will never understand why they burned Levenseller's redshirt.

[diabsoule]

It'd be bad for everyone. They'd be a mid major conference where the champion would likely lose 2-3 conference games.

Don't think they'd lose the mid-major label and become a major BCS conference once expanding to 12 teams by adding Boise St., Fresno St., and Tulsa?

[SuperKevin]

Don't think they'd lose the mid-major label and become a major BCS conference once expanding to 12 teams by adding Boise St., Fresno St., and Tulsa?

No because right now they have perfect balance with an even 6 BCS conferences. Adding a 7th throws that balance off. Also none of those 3 programs scream big money either

[Turtlepower]

BYU is the only non-BCS school that can bring enough money to BCS conferences to warrant it joining a conference.

[CroomDawgs]

You say screw them out as if they would have deserved to have been in it.

Well in their minds that is. You saw jared Zabranskys ridiculously loud post game interview saying they should get a shot at Ohio State 2 years ago. I don't think either of those two would be National champs not even close but the point is that they've done all they can to prove they belong.

[DragonFireKai]

Well in their minds that is. You saw jared Zabranskys ridiculously loud post game interview saying they should get a shot at Ohio State 2 years ago. I don't think either of those two would be National champs not even close but the point is that they've done all they can to prove they belong.

Except follow the example laid down by Louisville, Cincinnatti, and USF.

[Primetime21]

To all the talk of BSU joining the Pac 10, wait 10 years and ask that question. Success on the field is obviously not the only requirement to join the Pac 10. BSU isnt even close to the academic, profits, and overall quality of any of the schools in the Pac.

MWC might even be more outlandish. They picked TCU over BSU 3 weeks after BSU beat TCU in a high profile bowl game. Kinda was a kick in the nuts to all the people in Boise, even though I see why they did it.

Boise State is going to be in the WAC for awhile, the only thing that is going to change is more frequent visits to other BCS teams.

[etk]

Boise State = overrated

If Ball State goes undefeated I think they're the best non-BCS team and I hope they make it to a big game. Utah has had a lot of close calls so I'm hesitant to crown them just yet.

Pac-10 doesn't want another team. End of story. The only conference that wants a new member is the Big 10, and only if that new addition is Notre Dame.

[awfullyquiet]

To all the talk of BSU joining the Pac 10, wait 10 years and ask that question. Success on the field is obviously not the only requirement to join the Pac 10. BSU isnt even close to the academic, profits, and overall quality of any of the schools in the Pac.


Did someone mention academics? Wtf?

[DragonFireKai]

If Ball State goes undefeated I think they're the best non-BCS team and I hope they make it to a big game. Utah has had a lot of close calls so I'm hesitant to crown them just yet.


Based on what? Ball State has not played anyone, at all. They almost did. shift around a few words, locations, and uniforms and it'd be a pretty impresive shedule.

Wow. Ball State is playing Northwestern! Good of them to kick it off against a quality BCS program... Oh wait, that's Northeastern.

Hey! They're playing a team with blue jerseys and golden domed helmets. Notre Dame? No. Navy.

Look, Ball State is playing Northern Illinois!

Between Akron, Toledo, Miami of Ohio, Kent State, and Eastern, Central, and Western Michigan, they've played just about every team from Ohio and Michigan except the ones that matter!

Ah. Indiana, finally, Ball State has a win over a quality BCS team... I couldn't type that with a straight face.

Ball State has proven about as much as Hawaii did last season. What's their marquee win? Navy? Central Michigan if they win that one? Schedule harder. Boise State at least has a solid win over Oregon, even if Oregon was rotating freshmen QBs during that one.

To be honest, I don't see a single mid-major worthy of BCS contention this season. But hey! if letting Utah or BSU in keeps Ohio State out, I'm willing to allow it.

[DragonFireKai]

Did someone mention academics? Wtf?

Every Pac 10 school is a tier I research university. None of the mid major schools with recent sucess are even close to that.

[kwilk103]

espn had utah, boise, and ball st sos

utah was like 60th, boise 80th, and ball st was 111

[awfullyquiet]

Every Pac 10 school is a tier I research university. None of the mid major schools with recent sucess are even close to that.

*yawn* on a per student basis, the amount they dump into 'research' is puny still.

wait. i forget stanford is pac 10...

I will grant the PAC 10 the bye on saying at least it's not the SEC.

[P-L]

Every Pac 10 school is a tier I research university. None of the mid major schools with recent sucess are even close to that.
According to the school's website, Utah is a tier I research university.

[DragonFireKai]

*yawn* on a per student basis, the amount they dump into 'research' is puny still.

wait. i forget stanford is pac 10...

I will grant the PAC 10 the bye on saying at least it's not the SEC.

You wanna know what's hilariously ignorant about that statement? Guess what school in the pac 10 gets the most research funding?

[Brent]

They'll get better. Look at Ole Miss last year. Not a single win in conference play. Look at Ole Miss this year.
Well, adding former 4-star QB Jevan Snead sure didnt hurt.

[awfullyquiet]

You wanna know what's hilariously ignorant about that statement? Guess what school in the pac 10 gets the most research funding?

you know what the most ignorant part about your statement was?

was that you missed the part that says

per student.

p.s. thanks p-l for the support there, i couldn't find it last night.

[DragonFireKai]

Well, adding former 4-star QB Jevan Snead sure didnt hurt.

When you're as bad as Ole Miss was last year, adding anyone doesn't hurt.

you know what the most ignorant part about your statement was?

was that you missed the part that says

per student.

I didn't miss that part. Per student, Stanford doesn't get the most research money in the Pac 10.

[awfullyquiet]

I didn't miss that part. Per student, Stanford doesn't get the most research money in the Pac 10.

lay it out for me then bro.

i'm going on the assumption that having 13000 students, every school has to basically have 2.4 times minimum the amount that stanford spends for research money. (seeing as uc's have 35000+ students grad+under)

i personally don't know the amounts anyone spends, and frankly, money is useless imo, but i know how many students go to stanford, and it's a bunch less than go to wash/st. spoiled children, az or uc/la

[Shane P. Hallam]

Back on topic? I think you two can hash this out via PM.

[Menardo75]

It is impossible that two mid-majors play for the national championship. The only way would be if the two loaded up the non-conference schedule, and ran the table.

[Menardo75]

Back on topic? I think you two can hash this out via PM.

I tried :(

[Shane P. Hallam]

I agree with you Menardo, with the computer rankings, it would be near impossible.

[dunagan15]

I would stop watching college football

[Menardo75]

It honestly is getting hard to see one non-BCS team in the National championship game. Much less two. Boise might have the best chance of all of them. If they scheduled some upper teir PAC-10 teams and ran the table. Thye might have a chance.

[Shane P. Hallam]

I mean, they tried with Oregon. Utah tried with Michigan. It is a good attempt!

[dunagan15]

I mean, they tried with Oregon. Utah tried with Michigan. It is a good attempt!

ya but still. Nobody wants to see that game and they would lose so much money and we all know the BCS commitee is all about $$$.

[Menardo75]

They might just have to schedule a top five team to get some respect and have a shot. Last time they tried playing a powerhouse in the regular season though it did'nt work out too well.

[jayceheathman]

That's true. It's a conference that they're almost guaranteed to win everywhere.

But imagine if the MWC looked like this:

Air Force
Brigham Young University
Boise State (formerly of the WAC)
Colorado State
Fresno State (formerly of the WAC)
San Diego State
Texas Christian University
University of Nevada-Las Vegas
University of New Mexico
University of Tulsa (formerly of C-USA)
University of Utah
Wyoming


Thats so not true. New Mexico State is a good test for them every year. Oh wait, we lost 49-0 agaisnt Boise. :(

[Shane P. Hallam]

ya but still. Nobody wants to see that game and they would lose so much money and we all know the BCS commitee is all about $$$.

Oh yeah, won't happen. And guessing 5-6 years in advance who is Top 5 is easier said than done, and many teams don't want to play a Boise.

[etk]

Based on what? Ball State has not played anyone, at all. They almost did. shift around a few words, locations, and uniforms and it'd be a pretty impresive shedule.

Wow. Ball State is playing Northwestern! Good of them to kick it off against a quality BCS program... Oh wait, that's Northeastern.

Hey! They're playing a team with blue jerseys and golden domed helmets. Notre Dame? No. Navy.

Look, Ball State is playing Northern Illinois!

Between Akron, Toledo, Miami of Ohio, Kent State, and Eastern, Central, and Western Michigan, they've played just about every team from Ohio and Michigan except the ones that matter!

Ah. Indiana, finally, Ball State has a win over a quality BCS team... I couldn't type that with a straight face.

Ball State has proven about as much as Hawaii did last season. What's their marquee win? Navy? Central Michigan if they win that one? Schedule harder. Boise State at least has a solid win over Oregon, even if Oregon was rotating freshmen QBs during that one.

To be honest, I don't see a single mid-major worthy of BCS contention this season. But hey! if letting Utah or BSU in keeps Ohio State out, I'm willing to allow it.

The WAC of last year isn't even close to as strong as the MAC this year. Let's skip the sarcasm and Hawaii comparisons for now.

Northern Illinois, Western Michigan and Central Michigan are all quality teams. To this point, Ball State is undefeated in convincing fashion despite losing their star WR and top playmaker. Their offense has been unstoppable and consistent scoring is something I like to see in mid-major contenders. You underestimate the MAC a lot, especially WMU and CMU, and I think wins over both teams back-to-back is very impressive as is the rest of their season to this date.

Boise State has beaten a weak Oregon team, great. Ball State could beat up on most of the Pac-10 as well, I have little doubt. The MWC has done it all year. The WAC is incredibly weak this year as Fresno State and Hawaii are having down years and all the other teams suck. It's not even comparable to the MAC or MWC.

Utah is a solid team and they've beaten some solid teams, but I'm not impressed just yet. They've had to squeak out some low-scoring games and they just don't appear as consistent as Ball State. We'll see what happens when they play BYU. An impressive win there will seal their fate as the top mid-major team and legitimate BCS threat.

[P-L]

I think teams like Utah, Boise State, and Ball State are getting screwed. It's not their fault they play in a ****** conference. It's not their fault that no quality out of conference opponent will play them. I mean like JBond said, at least they are trying. Most of these games were scheduled years in advanced. When Utah scheduled Michigan and Boise scheduled Oregon, both teams were considered excellent opponents. It's not like these mid-majors are scheduling D1-AA teams like the Big Ten and SEC teams do.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think a Utah or Boise State should get in over a 1-loss SEC or 1-loss Big XII team. That said, if two of Utah, Boise State, and Ball State go undefeated they should both get into BCS bowls. I think it's unfair to punish a team for a schedule that was almost entirely made two or three or more years ago.

[captainjack27]

The strength of schedules for these teams are ridiculously bad. It would be terrible to see that. The fact Utah is top ten IMO is a joke. Not saying that they're a bad team. But I just don't think they'd last in a BCS game vs. top tier opponent. Lets say Utah gets an at large Bid. Since the Big 12 Winner i'm assuming will be the other NC representative from Florida/Bama, who would they get? an OSU you team thats rolling people in impressive fashion? Or do they get the B12 at large...Oklahoma, Texas, Texas Tech? Thats spells trouble I think

[DragonFireKai]

Boise State has beaten a weak Oregon team, great. Ball State could beat up on most of the Pac-10 as well, I have little doubt.

Boise State beat a ranked Oregon team, and that UO squad is ranked currently. That's a quality win right there. What are you basing your assertion of Ball State's superiority on? They haven't played a single team that's ranked right now. They haven't played a single team that was ranked at the time of playing. Their best win right now is over a Navy squad that just got throttled by Notre Dame. Their Schedule is among the worst in college football. They've proven nothing.

[captainjack27]

Boise State beat a ranked Oregon team, and that UO squad is ranked currently. That's a quality win right there. What are you basing your assertion of Ball State's superiority on? They haven't played a single team that's ranked right now. They haven't played a single team that was ranked at the time of playing. Their best win right now is over a Navy squad that just got throttled by Notre Dame. Their Schedule is among the worst in college football. They've proven nothing.

Could not agree more. Utah...despite them being overrated IMO...had a quality win vs. TCU. Boise over an Oregon squad. Ball State plays in the MAC. They have not proved anything.

[Zyro_1014]

First off this won't happen and second if this happened a playoff system still wouldn't be implemented.


I do have one question. If both Utah and Boise win out is the BCS obligated to put both teams in a bcs game?

they are not obligated to put both in. the rule says that if 2 non bcs teams go undefeated and finish in the top 10 ONLY the higher ranked gets the berth.

[etk]

Boise State beat a ranked Oregon team, and that UO squad is ranked currently. That's a quality win right there. What are you basing your assertion of Ball State's superiority on? They haven't played a single team that's ranked right now. They haven't played a single team that was ranked at the time of playing. Their best win right now is over a Navy squad that just got throttled by Notre Dame. Their Schedule is among the worst in college football. They've proven nothing.

Relax, buddy....it's all opinion....it's called the internet.

I don't find Boise State to be an impressive team. I also don't happen to find Oregon to be a formidable opponent. Oregon has an extremely weak defense and lost against every half-decent opponent they've faced. Make it 4 when they play OSU this week. They have done a good job beating up on a mediocre Pac-10 and 2 of the worst teams from their respective conferences (Utah State & Purdue). To Boise State's credit, however, they are steadily improving and they are undefeated...so the only argument against them is plain personal opinion that they aren't a top team and would struggle against a number of teams in college football, one being Ball State imo.

Ball State has played some decent teams around the same caliber of Boise State's opponents, and handled them all up until this point. Their closest margin of victory is 12 points and that kind of consistent effort is impressive regardless of competition. 45-14 against a veteran NIU squad is pretty impressive. 31-0 at Toledo is pretty good. 83 points on the road against Akron and Indiana in successive weeks is solid. But the whole basis of my argument has been that Ball State is the best if they beat CMU and WMU....2 of the strongest mid-major teams imo. That will give them an impressive package of performances on the year.

Navy lost by 6 points to Notre Dame, and they lost by 12 to Ball State. If 6 points is "throttled", then I don't know how to describe what Ball State has done to their entire schedule.

[DragonFireKai]

Relax, buddy....it's all opinion....it's called the internet.

Did I come off as angry?

I don't find Boise State to be an impressive team. I also don't happen to find Oregon to be a formidable opponent. Oregon has an extremely weak defense and lost against every half-decent opponent they've faced. Make it 4 when they play OSU this week. They have done a good job beating up on a mediocre Pac-10 and 2 of the worst teams from their respective conferences (Utah State & Purdue). To Boise State's credit, however, they are steadily improving and they are undefeated...so the only argument against them is plain personal opinion that they aren't a top team and would struggle against a number of teams in college football, one being Ball State imo.

So you've got nothing to substantiate your claims. Just a gut feeling.

Ball State has played some decent teams around the same caliber of Boise State's opponents, and handled them all up until this point. Their closest margin of victory is 12 points and that kind of consistent effort is impressive regardless of competition. 45-14 against a veteran NIU squad is pretty impressive. 31-0 at Toledo is pretty good. 83 points on the road against Akron and Indiana in successive weeks is solid. But the whole basis of my argument has been that Ball State is the best if they beat CMU and WMU....2 of the strongest mid-major teams imo. That will give them an impressive package of performances on the year.

Who has Ball State played that's as good as Oregon? Even if Ball State beats CMU and WMU, what have those two teams proven? CMU got obliterated by Georgia, and beaten by the same Purdue team that you're so dismisive of earlier in your post. WMU got trounced by a mediocre Nebraska squad, and eked one out against an Illinois team that has a losing record. The only somewhat respectable win any team in the MAC has is Bowling Green's win over Pittsburgh, who's feasted on the God Awful Big East.

Navy lost by 6 points to Notre Dame, and they lost by 12 to Ball State. If 6 points is "throttled", then I don't know how to describe what Ball State has done to their entire schedule.

There's more to a game than the final score. Navy was leading Ball State up until halfway through the third quarter. Navy never led Notre Dame. Navy racked up 346 rushing yards on Ball State. Navy rushed for 178 yards against Notre Dame. Navy went 6-14 on third down conversions against Ball State, and 3-5 on 4th downs. Navy was 1-13 against ND, and 0-2 on 4th downs. Navy even passed for more yards against Ball State than against ND. Notre Dame was out ahead and on top the whole time, despite their game being played at Navy, while Navy traveled to Ball State and put up a very good fight.

[etk]

Did I come off as angry?



So you've got nothing to substantiate your claims. Just a gut feeling.



Who has Ball State played that's as good as Oregon? Even if Ball State beats CMU and WMU, what have those two teams proven? CMU got obliterated by Georgia, and beaten by the same Purdue team that you're so dismisive of earlier in your post. WMU got trounced by a mediocre Nebraska squad, and eked one out against an Illinois team that has a losing record. The only somewhat respectable win any team in the MAC has is Bowling Green's win over Pittsburgh, who's feasted on the God Awful Big East.



There's more to a game than the final score. Navy was leading Ball State up until halfway through the third quarter. Navy never led Notre Dame. Navy racked up 346 rushing yards on Ball State. Navy rushed for 178 yards against Notre Dame. Navy went 6-14 on third down conversions against Ball State, and 3-5 on 4th downs. Navy was 1-13 against ND, and 0-2 on 4th downs. Navy even passed for more yards against Ball State than against ND. Notre Dame was out ahead and on top the whole time, despite their game being played at Navy, while Navy traveled to Ball State and put up a very good fight.

What's wrong with having an opinion? I've watched the teams play and Ball State is better than Boise State. I'd pick them head to head and I find them more impressive. You are far too stats-driven. We're discussing teams, not numbers here. It's not a gut feeling. It's an educated opinion.

CMU and WMU are 2 top-flight offenses. CMU, in particular, has won a lot of close games and is difficult to put away despite injury problems all year. Dan Lefevour is one of the top QBs in college football, and he has some great weapons to work with including Antonio Brown, one of the top return men in the country. CMU got blown out by the preseason #1 team and lost a close game on the road to Purdue, a team they struggle against having lost 3 to them over the past 2 years. They've won every other game on their schedule, which is a lot more than most WAC teams can say. WMU has another top QB in Tim Hiller and some great weapons like Jamarko Simmons. Again, besides losing to CMU who I've explained is a very solid team, WMU's only other loss is on the road to Nebraska. Those are 2 strong 2-loss opponents right there, whereas Boise State has played a mediocre Pac-10 team and a bunch of horrible WAC foes. Oregon might be better than any 1 team Ball State has faced, but Ball State's collective schedule is far more difficult as it is harder to beat 5 decent teams than 1 good team and the rest garbage teams.

Manipulate all the stats you want, but the fact remains that Ball State beat Navy by 12 while Notre Dame only beat them by 6. According to your logic, that makes Ball State twice as good as Notre Dame since all that matters is common opponents and how they've fared and how their opponents have fared, etc. etc.

You're just a completely illogical hypocrite. You talk about how Illinois has a losing record and WMU eeked one out against them, and then you say there's more to a game than the score and how Purdue is an impressive opponent. Give me a break. I've had enough of your manipulation of statistics and flip-flopping of argument and logic for one day.

[DragonFireKai]

What's wrong with having an opinion? I've watched the teams play and Ball State is better than Boise State. I'd pick them head to head and I find them more impressive. You are far too stats-driven. We're discussing teams, not numbers here. It's not a gut feeling. It's an educated opinion.

But based on what? So far all you've said is that it's your opinion, but you haven't given anything substantial to back up your opinion.

CMU and WMU are 2 top-flight offenses.

Oregon is a superior offense to either of those teams. By a wide margin.

CMU, in particular, has won a lot of close games and is difficult to put away despite injury problems all year.

Winning close games is not a sign of a dominant team. It's a sign of parity. Close wins means the other team hung around.

Dan Lefevour is one of the top QBs in college football, and he has some great weapons to work with including Antonio Brown, one of the top return men in the country.

You'll get no argument from me about LeFevour, he's a stud. But he is but one man. Stanford was a terrible team when they had John Elway at QB. And trying to sell Brown as one of the top return men in the country is a bit of a stretch, and his contributions to the offense are a little weak as a wide reciever. You would have been better off mentioning Anderson, who's pretty much the only player on the CMU offense other than LeFevour who's worth a damn.

CMU got blown out by the preseason #1 team and lost a close game on the road to Purdue, a team they struggle against having lost 3 to them over the past 2 years.

They lost a close game on the road to a 3-8 team. If you're going to knock Oregon for winning a close game over Purdue, you can't be an apologist for CMU later in the same thread. Purdue is a bad team. Period. The diference is, Oregon beat the bad team, CMU lost to the bad team. Oregon scored more points, allowed fewer points, had more yards of offense, a better third down conversion percentage. Oregon played a better game, and they did so with their backup in at QB.

WMU has another top QB in Tim Hiller and some great weapons like Jamarko Simmons. Again, besides losing to CMU who I've explained is a very solid team, WMU's only other loss is on the road to Nebraska.

But who have they beaten? All you've said is that WMU is worse than CMU, and that CMU is about on par with Purdue and Northern Illinois. You'll forgive me if I'm not impressed.

Those are 2 strong 2-loss opponents right there, whereas Boise State has played a mediocre Pac-10 team and a bunch of horrible WAC foes. Oregon might be better than any 1 team Ball State has faced, but Ball State's collective schedule is far more difficult as it is harder to beat 5 decent teams than 1 good team and the rest garbage teams.

A marquee win goes further towards proving a teams performance in a BCS bowl situation than an undefeated record against a bunch of scrubs. In 2004, Utah knocked out Texas A&M and UNC. Two BCS conference schools that would go to bowls that season. In 2006, Boise State beat an Oregon State team that would finish 3rd in the Pac 10, and beat Missouri in the Sun Bowl. In 2007, Hawaii went undefeated against a schedule that ranked in the triple digits, their marquee wins were over Boise State, and Fresno State. Those two teams were pretty much as good as CMU and Navy are this season. Hawaii was unproven, and found wanting in the Sugar Bowl.

Manipulate all the stats you want, but the fact remains that Ball State beat Navy by 12 while Notre Dame only beat them by 6. According to your logic, that makes Ball State twice as good as Notre Dame since all that matters is common opponents and how they've fared and how their opponents have fared, etc. etc.

When did I ever say that the final score is the only thing that matters? That's a terrible strawman, and you'll need to come with better than that.

You're just a completely illogical hypocrite. You talk about how Illinois has a losing record and WMU eeked one out against them, and then you say there's more to a game than the score and how Purdue is an impressive opponent. Give me a break. I've had enough of your manipulation of statistics and flip-flopping of argument and logic for one day.

When did I ever say Purdue was an impressive opponent? You're the one who went from...

They have done a good job beating up on a mediocre Pac-10 and 2 of the worst teams from their respective conferences (Utah State & Purdue).

to...


CMU and WMU are 2 top-flight offenses. CMU, in particular, has won a lot of close games and is difficult to put away despite injury problems all year. CMU lost a close game on the road to Purdue, a team they struggle against having lost 3 to them over the past 2 years.

So when Oregon beats Purdue, it proves nothing, but when CMU loses, it proves nothing either. Let's just ignore what happens on the field. right.

You've provided nothing beyond naming a few decent players, and puffing up everything else about the teams based solely on you gut instinct. You claim CMU and WMU are "top flight offenses", and that's why they'll make Ball State's schedule more impressive than BSU's. Yet Boise State has three teams on their schedule that have higher scoring offenses than either CMU or WMU. What exactly are your standards for top flight offenses again? Offenses that are high powered? Or offenses that have someone you've heard of?

[Iamcanadian]

I'd say a trillion to one, why, because if they put a 2 lose LSU into the NC game over an undefeated Hawaii then they will never permit a smaller Div 1 school into the NC game. End of story.

[ChezPower4]

I hope this does not happen, it would be a damn shame