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elway=goat
11-11-2008, 04:13 AM
Kurt Warner is revived his career and is in the running for MVP this season, after another great game. He is arguably playing better than any QB in the league right now. Lets say they Cards and Warner finish the season on fire, and he picks up his 3rd MVP.

Right now he is itting at:

2 MVP's
1 Superbowl MVP

If he picks up a 3rd does he make the Hall of fame?

Also the Cards have just as good of a shot as anyone of making it to the Superbowl and winning it imo. They have enough weapons on offense and defense to make some serious noise in the playoffs. So lets assume the Cards have a dream season, Warner wins the MVP and a superbowl MVP

That puts him at 3 regular season MVP's and 2 Superbowl MVP's, does that get him into the hall of fame?



My feeling is he, he has one of the weirdest careers ever. If he continues on his current pace he will throw for 4907 yards, completing 70.6% of his passes 34 TD's and 11 picks with a rating of 106.4. If he finishes with numbers close to that he has 3 of the top 20 seasons from a QB in moderen NFL history, IMO.

I think he gets in off that alone, you add in his accalaids, and its a done deal. Warner is the man.

7-11
11-11-2008, 04:31 AM
Monday night football pre-game, is that you?

Brent
11-11-2008, 06:40 AM
Monday night football pre-game, is that you?
Jaws had Warner's nuts in his mouth all game.

bored of education
11-11-2008, 06:41 AM
lol @ 7 11. I was thinking along those lines before the season started. If Kurt puts up some monster seasons and brings the Card to NFL Championship games or whatever he would def. be a HoFer. 45% of his games he has started he has thrown for 300 yards or more is a disgusting stat.

Never was a fan of his but if he puts up 2-3 monster years and brings the Cards to the promised land then YES he is an HoFer.

tjsunstein
11-11-2008, 07:34 AM
He should win MVP this year but it kills me saying that he'll be tied with Favre in something.

ChezPower4
11-11-2008, 07:56 AM
He should win MVP this year but it kills me saying that he'll be tied with Favre in something.

I'd say right now that Warner is making the best case for MVP. As for the Hall of Fame, if he were to win his third MVP I think that he may get in at some point but I don't think that he'd be a first ball. He'd have to wait a while till he got in.

giantsfan
11-11-2008, 07:59 AM
Has warner really passed Portis? I mean yeah he has great stats and his team is 6-3 in the NFC West, but is that really more impressive than what Portis is doing for the skins in the NFC East?

Number 10
11-11-2008, 08:13 AM
If a Cardinal is in the MVP talk, its Anquan Boldin.

Prowler
11-11-2008, 08:25 AM
if he gets mvp this year then yes he is definately in. if he fails then he needs one or two more good years. with the mvp this year he'd have like 5 years of great production and that should be good enough. nflers don't really need to have the long shelf lives that mlb hall of famers do

terribletowel39
11-11-2008, 08:26 AM
Warner deserves it. Over Q and over Portis. Him and Brees are really really close.

tjsunstein
11-11-2008, 08:27 AM
If a Cardinal is in the MVP talk, its Anquan Boldin.

But it's really not. Warner has been the spark to this team but I agree Boldin is doing absolutely incredible this year. I thank him for being awesome on my fantasy team.

cdub11
11-11-2008, 08:48 AM
Kurt Warner is a borderline HOF. A third MVP award would probably cement his HOF status.

Yatta!
11-11-2008, 09:04 AM
On a different tangent: If he won MVP or the Cardinals had a decent playoff run would he retire? He'll be 38 by the time next season rolls around and he said something about retirement at the beginning of this year.

tjsunstein
11-11-2008, 09:10 AM
On a different tangent: If he won MVP or the Cardinals had a decent playoff run would he retire? He'll be 38 by the time next season rolls around and he said something about retirement at the beginning of this year.

He'll probably speak to god about that. hahaha. Anyone see his interview after the game? They asked him what accredited to his success and he said 'how awesome god is.' How do you think Q and Fitz compare to Bruce and Holt from the greatest show on turf?

Geo
11-11-2008, 09:34 AM
I don't buy Warner was an MVP candidate.

He's doing great ... because he has Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Stevie Breaston. Warner is delivering the ball accurately, but that's easily the best trio of receivers in the league and it isn't close.

Imo, and I think I mentioned this earlier, Boldin and Fitz are my top two receivers in the league.

Plus an MVP candidate can't just be an MVP candidate at home, he has to play at that level on the road. Warner didn't at San Francisco, at Washington, and at New York (Jets). He did play well at Carolina in a losing effort though.

Just a playoff berth and a Pro Bowl for Warner imo, maybe even All-Pro recognition, which is good enough.

tjsunstein
11-11-2008, 09:41 AM
I don't buy Warner was an MVP candidate.

He's doing great ... because he has Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Stevie Breaston. Warner is delivering the ball accurately, but that's easily the best trio of receivers in the league and it isn't close.

Imo, and I think I mentioned this earlier, Boldin and Fitz are my top two receivers in the league.

Plus an MVP candidate can't just be an MVP candidate at home, he has to play at that level on the road. Warner didn't at San Francisco, at Washington, and at New York (Jets). He did play well at Carolina in a losing effort though.

Just a playoff berth and a Pro Bowl for Warner imo, maybe even All-Pro recognition, which is good enough.

Valid Points. I think at this point Warner>Portis in terms of value to their team. Not knocking Portis at all though as he's greatly important. Who is your MVP?

awfullyquiet
11-11-2008, 09:47 AM
Jaws had Warner's nuts in his mouth all game.

Hence why anyone brings it up?

I wonder what we happened if the commentators just shut the hell up... would people care about brett favre outside of winsconsin?

Brent
11-11-2008, 09:49 AM
I wonder what we happened if the commentators just shut the hell up... would people care about brett favre outside of winsconsin?
Probably not. They dont talk about Eli every day but he's been having a fantastic season.

CC.SD
11-11-2008, 09:51 AM
I've already said I think Kurt will get in, and that was before he started having this amazing year. He is the frontrunner for MVP right now.

Geo
11-11-2008, 09:52 AM
Haven't really thought about it, I had thought it was Drew Brees and maybe still do. He is the New Orleans Saints, if he doesn't get it done they don't win. Except for a while there he was getting it done without Colston and Shockey.

Then again that sort of argument brings Peyton Manning into the picture, if the Colts and he immediately play consistently at this higher level from before and find a way to win most of their games. He'd have to make up a lot of ground, but if the race has no strong leading candidate, who knows.

Though name-value and recognition aside, there's an element of desensitization to some players (Peyton included), a sticking point of Shiver's I recall and agree with. Manning actually put the team in position to win the Jacksonville game too, but the defense couldn't hold onto the lead.

I think Kerry Collins is more of a consideration than Warner, honestly. Collins has made plays in the fourth quarter for his team to win games. Funny how both of those guys have usurped the struggling '06 Draft darlings.

Not big on Haynesworth as MVP or even DPOTY, really. I think people are talking him up because he came in second in DPOTY last year and might have been first if he was healthy for all 16 games.

awfullyquiet
11-11-2008, 09:57 AM
Probably not. They dont talk about Eli every day but he's been having a fantastic season.

lets not bring that up.

tjsunstein
11-11-2008, 10:21 AM
Probably not. They dont talk about Eli every day but he's been having a fantastic season.

That's completely false. People would still like to know about Favre but not on a consistent basis. He is brought up more than the actual Jets game more times than not. People like to be drunk but hate being hungover. That's the only way I can put it. If it makes any sense at all, I'm not sure.

MetSox17
11-11-2008, 10:57 AM
I think Kerry Collins is more of a consideration than Warner, honestly. Collins has made plays in the fourth quarter for his team to win games. Funny how both of those guys have usurped the struggling '06 Draft darlings.



This has gotta be a joke. Kerry Collins? Because he makes a few fourth quarter throws? There's no way in hell Kerry Collins even ends up in the Top-Five in voting if his stats keep up the way they are. Bus-Drivers don't win MVP's. Guys playing out of their freakin' minds win MVP's. There's four guys right now that have a legitimate shot at winning it, and none of them are named Collins.

Peterson, Portis, Warner or Rivers. Coincidentally, all from the NFC. Both quarterbacks are putting up ridiculous numbers, but i'll give the nod to Kurt Warner. Who the hell cares if he has two of the best WR's in the game, that shouldn't hurt his candidacy. Tom Brady never put up MVP numbers without Randy or Welker, nor did Manning without Wayne and Harrison. It's a stupid argument to make, that a guy deserves it less because of his surrounding cast. It's laughable.

Warner is completing 70% of his passes, is second in the league in TD passes and first in quarterback rating. Brees has a bigger shot at Collins, and he isn't even in the discussion for me right now.

Gtho of here with that Kerry Collins junk.

CashmoneyDrew
11-11-2008, 10:57 AM
I wonder what we happened if the commentators just shut the hell up... would people care about brett favre outside of winsconsin?

I know I sure as hell don't.

Basileus777
11-11-2008, 12:27 PM
Kerry Collins doesn't even deserve pro-bowl consideration, let alone belong in the MVP discussion. I don't think we've quite reached the level where they just give the MVP to the qb on the best team in the league.

Brent
11-11-2008, 01:15 PM
Kerry Collins doesn't even deserve pro-bowl consideration, let alone belong in the MVP discussion. I don't think we've quite reached the level where they just give the MVP to the qb on the best team in the league.
Yeah, this isnt the Heisman.

locseti
11-11-2008, 01:28 PM
I'd like to see how Warner does throwing to Justin Gage, Brandon Jones, and Bo Scaife.

MetSox17
11-11-2008, 01:40 PM
I'd like to see how Warner does throwing to Justin Gage, Brandon Jones, and Bo Scaife.

Well there's no award for hypotheticals. Warner plays with the Cardinals and Collins with the Titans. Capisce?

locseti
11-11-2008, 01:49 PM
Well there's no award for hypotheticals. Warner plays with the Cardinals and Collins with the Titans. Capisce?

Just sayin' that Collins is extremely valuable - I wonder where the Titans would be without him. Hovering around .500, that's where. One of my skills is projecting into the hypothetical realm and I see him putting up huge numbers if he's throwing to Anquan, Fitz, and Breaston.

awfullyquiet
11-11-2008, 01:50 PM
Just sayin' that Collins is extremely valuable - I wonder where the Titans would be without him. Hovering around .500, that's where. One of my skills is projecting into the hypothetical realm and I see him putting up huge numbers if he's throwing to Anquan, Fitz, and Breaston.

Um.

With that defense and running game? Chad Pennington would be a better quarterback than Kerry Collins in tennessee?

In arizona? Chad 'noodle arm' Pennington would STILL be better than Kerry Collins.

elway=goat
11-11-2008, 03:05 PM
I don't buy Warner was an MVP candidate.

He's doing great ... because he has Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Stevie Breaston. Warner is delivering the ball accurately, but that's easily the best trio of receivers in the league and it isn't close.Imo, and I think I mentioned this earlier, Boldin and Fitz are my top two receivers in the league.

Plus an MVP candidate can't just be an MVP candidate at home, he has to play at that level on the road. Warner didn't at San Francisco, at Washington, and at New York (Jets). He did play well at Carolina in a losing effort though.

Just a playoff berth and a Pro Bowl for Warner imo, maybe even All-Pro recognition, which is good enough.


Then you would have to take the MVP'S away from 75% of QB's who ever had won the award. Last time I checked Peyton Manning was destroying the league when he was winning his MVP'S with the best group of receivers, arguably best runningback with James in his prime and the best pass blocking line the league had ever seen.

Or lets Montana, Young, Gannon, Marino...Blah blah, every great QB has had to have talent around him. The only one's I could think of are Elway and Brady who were still successful without all world talent around them on the offensive side.

Warner has been fantastic all year. He has only had 2 average games this season, and in those games he still put up great numbers. He is on pace to have one of the greatest seasons of all time again, it kinda blows me away how you are down playing it.

Q missed sometime and they just plugged Breaston in without a problem, they have talented WR's, average RB's and below average TE's. Blocking has been good. But its not like Warner is playing the Colts offense of the early/mid 2000's.

awfullyquiet
11-11-2008, 03:18 PM
Then you would have to take the MVP'S away from 75% of QB's who ever had won the award. Last time I checked Peyton Manning was destroying the league when he was winning his MVP'S with the best group of receivers, arguably best runningback with James in his prime and the best pass blocking line the league had ever seen.



That is what we like to call. Precedence.

Warner is playing above average ball, on an above average team with well above average wr's...

tjsunstein
11-11-2008, 03:29 PM
You can't say well if _________ had to throw to ________ than he wouldnt put up the numbers he is now. You can't fault a guy for using his weapons properly and say someone else would have been better because his recievers blow. Vince Young was 10-6 with this team last year. Do people forget that? You add Chris Johnson and have an average qb who doesn't make mistakes than you have the 2008 Titans!

awfullyquiet
11-11-2008, 03:42 PM
You can't say well if _________ had to throw to ________ than he wouldnt put up the numbers he is now. You can't fault a guy for using his weapons properly and say someone else would have been better because his recievers blow. Vince Young was 10-6 with this team last year. Do people forget that? You add Chris Johnson and have an average qb who doesn't make mistakes than you have the 2008 Titans!

People do. I can't believe someone would say that the titans would be about .500 with any quarterback NOT named kerry collins.

because, lets face it. they were 10-6 with VY. and VY is worse than average.

tjsunstein
11-11-2008, 03:48 PM
You can't say well if _________ had to throw to ________ than he wouldnt put up the numbers he is now. You can't fault a guy for using his weapons properly and say someone else would have been better because his recievers blow. Vince Young was 10-6 with this team last year. Do people forget that? You add Chris Johnson and have an average qb who doesn't make mistakes than you have the 2008 Titans!

People do. I can't believe someone would say that the titans would be about .500 with any quarterback NOT named kerry collins.

because, lets face it. they were 10-6 with VY. and VY is worse than average.

Just in case anyone missed it, the Titans were 10-6 with Vince Young. LOL

locseti
11-11-2008, 04:00 PM
I can't believe someone would say that the titans would be about .500 with any quarterback NOT named kerry collins.


I was implying that if VY was starting, they wouldn't be where they are today, therefore making Collins extremely valuable. And I don't buy the argument that because they were 10-6 with VY at the helm, they'd do the same thing this yr, because VY has visibly regressed since that season.

locseti
11-11-2008, 04:10 PM
hahahah Woody wants Collins as MVP!!! Woody is never wrong!

awfullyquiet
11-11-2008, 04:43 PM
because, lets face it. they were 10-6 with VY. and VY is worse than average.

I was implying that if VY was starting, they wouldn't be where they are today, therefore making Collins extremely valuable. And I don't buy the argument that because they were 10-6 with VY at the helm, they'd do the same thing this yr, because VY has visibly regressed since that season.

if VY was starting they wouldn't be 8-0. but they aren't 8-0 because kerry collins is starting!

you may not have to buy the argument. but that's not what i was saying. VY can win 10 games a year BECAUSE the defense and offense was so good. they lost 6 games that year BECAUSE of him and him alone.

Bengalsrocket
11-11-2008, 04:51 PM
Personally I hate when people think that because 1 "big" change has been made to a team, that you can suddenly attribute the team's new found success to that player.

All players develop each year. It doesn't matter how experienced or good they were the year before, every player is constantly learning new things (though hopefully, less and less each year). Even when a player's numbers are lower I still hope he is continuing to develop as a player and a teammate.

Guys like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady learn something every year, even if they are already considered the best in the league.

But also, the guys who don't get mentioned much, get better each year too, and this is certainly true for the Titans. I feel like that whole team has stepped up in a big way, despite whoever is playing at the QB position.

Now while Kerry Collins and Chris Johnson are the two newest editions to the starting line up, I think its fairly insulting to the rest of the team to say that either one of them could be the sole reason that team is 8-0.

At the same time though, both Kerry Collins and Chris Johnson are a big part of that team, and have certainly helped in their pursuit of perfection so far this year.

Edit: To summarize, basically, I agree with what AQ posted above me :)

BlindSite
11-11-2008, 04:56 PM
MVP depends on what they bring to the team. The MVP of the titans is Albert Haynesworth, based on that fact alone, he [Collins] cannot be the NFL's MVP.

Personally I think that title will go to Adrian Peterson who'll eclipse Portis down the stretch.

For Warner to win it he'll have to do a lot more than just win the worst division in football.

Malaka
11-11-2008, 05:03 PM
Kerry Collins is in no way the MVP, but I think Warner definitely can be. Warner may have way better receivers, but he is a much better QB than Collins, Collins is nothing more than a decent game manager. If Kurt Warner was on the Titans the Titans would be even better then they are now, and I would consider them to be better than all other teams by a large margin, and if Kerry Collins was on the Cardinals Matt Leinart would be starting and the NFC west would have to let a team with a losing record make the playoffs, now I am done dealing with hypotheticals.

I have always liked Kurt Warner, and I think that he should be in the HoF whether or not he wins the MVP, right now I like him as the leading candidate with Portis and Brees right behind. He may not be a first ballot HoF but will get in eventually with or without the MVP award this year, he already has two super bowl rings and two MVP awards.

I have always found it funny how he came into the league at what 27? Who knows what if he was actually drafted he might have been the best QB we have ever seen stat wise, or nothing drafted into the wrong situation, this was always something I thought about with Warner.

Menardo75
11-11-2008, 05:04 PM
Since Warner is the only reason why they have won six games, then he should be considerded.

locseti
11-11-2008, 09:22 PM
if VY was starting they wouldn't be 8-0. but they aren't 8-0 because kerry collins is starting!

you may not have to buy the argument. but that's not what i was saying. VY can win 10 games a year BECAUSE the defense and offense was so good. they lost 6 games that year BECAUSE of him and him alone.

I never said they were 8-0 solely based on the fact that Collins is starting. I do, however, think he is a big part of that based on his ability to make smart decisions that don't put his defense in tough spots.

And with the point regarding VY, I was claiming that they wouldn't even end up 10-6 with him at the helm this yr because he has visibly regressed since then. They would have got blown out against the Bears if VY was starting! Every defense would stack the line and force VY to beat them, something I don't believe he is capable of, at least at this low point in his career.

holt_bruce81
11-11-2008, 10:33 PM
Right now, if the season were to end today Kurt Warner would be the MVP followed by Drew Brees and Adrian Peterson.

619
11-11-2008, 10:38 PM
Right now, if the season were to end today Kurt Warner would be the MVP followed by Drew Brees and Adrian Peterson.

So Portis has just fallen by the wayside ? I think Brees has hurt his chances more the last few weeks than has Portis, imo.

LonghornsLegend
11-11-2008, 10:39 PM
Adrian Peterson is in the running, watch...If Minnesota keeps on pushing and AD keeps exploding against 8 man fronts week in and out he will win one MVP I'm sure of it, he just has to stay healthy.


If he doesn't miss any games this year, I think he'll be top 3 and could win depending on the Vikes record.


Portis just sprained his MCL so if he has to miss a few weeks that's going to set him back, but for now he would be ahead of Peterson I just don't see him having as good of a 2nd half as AD.

Shane P. Hallam
11-11-2008, 10:41 PM
Right now, if the season were to end today Kurt Warner would be the MVP followed by Drew Brees and Adrian Peterson.

Brees isn't in the conversation IMO.


Warner, Haynesworth, Peterson, and Eli are probably top 4 in no part. order.

illmatic74
11-11-2008, 10:50 PM
He shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. The only active QBs who should be in the hall are Favre, Manning, Brady others have a lot more to accomplish. But Warner has a chance since Warren Moon made the hall.

tjsunstein
11-11-2008, 10:55 PM
Brees isn't in the conversation IMO.


Warner, Haynesworth, Peterson, and Eli are probably top 4 in no part. order.

Realistically its Warner, Peterson, and Eli. A DT doesnt have a shot no matter how dominant. This is a little change of tune compared to the Cutler and Rivers nonsense.

Brent
11-11-2008, 10:56 PM
Who knows what if he was actually drafted he might have been the best QB we have ever seen stat wise, or nothing drafted into the wrong situation, this was always something I thought about with Warner.
He was with the packers for a time but they cut him. He had to go to the arena league to refine his game.

Geo
11-16-2008, 10:44 AM
Then again that sort of argument brings Peyton Manning into the picture, if the Colts and he immediately play consistently at this higher level from before and find a way to win most of their games. He'd have to make up a lot of ground, but if the race has no strong leading candidate, who knows.

Though name-value and recognition aside, there's an element of desensitization to some players (Peyton included), a sticking point of Shiver's I recall and agree with. Manning actually put the team in position to win the Jacksonville game too, but the defense couldn't hold onto the lead.
I was thinking about this more this morning, and came away estimating that Peyton has a better chance than I initially thought.

For me, I won't consider Warner for MVP until after Weeks 12 and 13: against the New York Giants and at Philly. He needs to prove himself to me against quality competition, and he needs to at least play well/okay in those games to be MVP. The closest thing to a signature win that Warner has is Dallas at home.

Rayray52
11-16-2008, 11:22 AM
In my opinion hes a hall of famer, although i do tend to value periods of dominance alot more than sustained greatness, i feel that Terrell Davis should also get in when there is a weaker ballot. If Steve Young is elected to the hall i see no reason why Warner shouldent as well.