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View Full Version : Why So Much Hate On Josh Freeman?


JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 03:29 PM
Is it just because of his inconsistency and decision making?

Cigaro
11-11-2008, 03:30 PM
He sucks. That's why.

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 03:35 PM
elaborate on why please........

Cigaro
11-11-2008, 03:37 PM
God frowns on him, daily.

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 03:39 PM
I was unaware of that.

I'm not a K State fan either, just wondering why people dislike him.

BeerBaron
11-11-2008, 03:39 PM
Hes got great physical tools, he just hasn't quite put them together. If he were to enter this draft, he would probably be taken higher than his performance s would warrant based on his immense physical ability, just probably not top 5 or anything like that. Even Jamarcus Russell proved a little while at LSU.

Babylon
11-11-2008, 03:47 PM
He has the good size and arm strength and decent mobility but that is maybe overstated by his supporters. Like all Big-12 QBs i would like to see what they can do outside their comfort zone which is throwing short passes and relying on receivers to get YAC to make them look good. In his defense he probably throws deep more than any other QB in that league. His accuracy and decision making is really his big negative and i think if he can improve on that he could be a steal in the 3rd-4th round area. In his league i would put him behind Bradford and McCoy but ahead of the others.

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 03:48 PM
I agree with you that J. Freeman has not put it all together, but what makes him so different from Matt Stafford at UGA?

and Freeman has no where near the talent that UGA has

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 03:49 PM
Okay, so let me ask a question, IF Freeman can improve his decision making and his accuracy how good could he be, what would his ceiling be then?

draftguru151
11-11-2008, 03:51 PM
It has mostly to do with mythbusta/starheather overrating him by a ridiculous amount. If it weren't for that people would see him for what he is, a guy with amazing tools that hasn't put it all together, opposed to everyone hating on him because mythbusta is annoying.

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 03:56 PM
probably because of me. that being said and all his supposed deficiencies, he still has the best physical ability of any qb available. i dont know if he comes out, but if he does he has first rd value just on his physical skills alone

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 03:59 PM
Well IF he puts it all together in the NFL (accuracy, decision making) how good could he be?

Babylon
11-11-2008, 03:59 PM
I agree with you that J. Freeman has not put it all together, but what makes him so different from Matt Stafford at UGA?

and Freeman has no where near the talent that UGA has

I think you're better off comparing him to McCoy and Bradford because he isnt in the same stratosphere as Stafford as a QB.

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 04:02 PM
I think you're better off comparing him to McCoy and Bradford because he isnt in the same stratosphere as Stafford as a QB.

Well Stafford too has all the tools minus the mobility that Freeman has, and Stafford has way more talent at UGA. And Stafford isn't there yet as we saw vs. the Gator defense 2 weeks ago.

I'm not a hater on Stafford or a fan of Freeman, I'm just wondering

Babylon
11-11-2008, 04:05 PM
Well Stafford too has all the tools minus the mobility that Freeman has, and Stafford has way more talent at UGA. And Stafford isn't there yet as we saw vs. the Gator defense 2 weeks ago.

I'm not a hater on Stafford or a fan of Freeman, I'm just wondering

Can we stop thinking that every black QB is Vince Young, Freeman isnt all that mobile just like Jamarcus Russell isnt.

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 04:06 PM
he's mobile for his size at 6'6" 250

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 04:07 PM
he could be daunte culpepper or he could be quinn gray. for me you roll the dice, because if hes culpepper and you pass and someone else gets him its worse than him busting. anywhere in the mid late rd 1 i think if you need a qb you have to roll the dice. his plays taken him out of the highest spots. he hasnt played any worse than stafford, and there is nothing stafford can do physically throwing that he cant. hes a better athlete with more prototype body. if the team roles were reversed, i wonder if thered even be conversation. i only have 4 guys id pick really at the moment. stafford, freeman, pike, perriloux. the rest are in the g file. its damn near impossible to win a sb with an undersize weak arm qb. it hasnt happened much recently. so i like freeman

DragonFireKai
11-11-2008, 04:10 PM
he's mobile for his size at 6'6" 250

Which is like being the world's tallest dwarf. You're not very tall, and Freeman isn't very mobile. Pound for pound talent means very little in proffesional sports, it's a matter of absolute ability. Freeman is about as mobile as Byron Leftwich.

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 04:12 PM
Which is like being the world's tallest dwarf. You're not very tall, and Freeman isn't very mobile. Pound for pound talent means very little in proffesional sports, it's a matter of absolute ability. Freeman is about as mobile as Byron Leftwich.

I'm a Jaguars fan, and I've seen Byron run and Josh Freeman is much more mobile than Byron ever was

P-L
11-11-2008, 04:12 PM
Most people don't hate him, they are just sick of him being overhyped on this board. Even before mythbusta/starheather got here I saw a handful of people put him #1 overall in their mock. Realistically, he's still a good quarterback. If he came out this year he'd probably be a fringe 1st Round pick. I still think he's only the fourth best underclassmen quarterback, but that's still a compliment considering the strength of the junior and sophomore classes.

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 04:17 PM
i think he has 15 rushing tds. i guess its possible those could all be sneaks. 30 total tds. tebow esque #s on that pretty bad team. hes as mobile as anyone. and better throwing on the run as well as just running

draftguru151
11-11-2008, 04:18 PM
Which is like being the world's tallest dwarf. You're not very tall, and Freeman isn't very mobile. Pound for pound talent means very little in proffesional sports, it's a matter of absolute ability. Freeman is about as mobile as Byron Leftwich.

Wow, the two aren't even close. Freeman isn't a Vince Young running but he is stilll pretty mobile for any sized QB (legit pro QB at least). Leftwich had two left feet. Freeman is pretty close to Culpepper in terms of running ability.

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 04:18 PM
now i have two names. can you change my name to mythbusta/starheather?

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Can we stop thinking that every black QB is Vince Young, Freeman isnt all that mobile just like Jamarcus Russell isnt.
Really?Since when?He isn't Vince Young but he can still move around pretty well.

bspen4
11-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Which is like being the world's tallest dwarf. You're not very tall, and Freeman isn't very mobile. Pound for pound talent means very little in proffesional sports, it's a matter of absolute ability. Freeman is about as mobile as Byron Leftwich.

He has over 300 rushing yards but your saying he isn't mobile?

Babylon
11-11-2008, 04:40 PM
Really?Since when?He isn't Vince Young but he can still move around pretty well.

I was under the impression he ran about 4.85 at his LSU pro day and he looks heavier these days. If you say he's mobile fine by me.

regoob2
11-11-2008, 04:49 PM
Because he plays in a pro style O and everyone on here loves BS stats. Freeman is a great QB prospect.

Babylon
11-11-2008, 04:53 PM
Because he plays in a pro style O and everyone on here loves BS stats. Freeman is a great QB prospect.

Does that mean every QB in the Big-12 is a great prospect?

Cigaro
11-11-2008, 04:54 PM
probably because of me. that being said and all his supposed deficiencies, he still has the best physical ability of any qb available. i dont know if he comes out, but if he does he has first rd value just on his physical skills alone

So you're telling me if you could redraft the 2006 draft, you'd still pick Vernon Davis in the first round because of physical skills?

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 04:55 PM
Question then, who is the better prospect? Freeman or Mark Sanchez

Cigaro
11-11-2008, 04:55 PM
Mark Sanchez, easily.

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 04:58 PM
i think if you put him behind duke robinson/loadholt run the ball whenever you please have all day to pick out your 3 nfl level receivers youd see the best qb prospect by far. intstead he has no running game undersize porous ol midget wrs in a big wr offense, awful clueless coaching. i dont like to say what if, but look at the nfl prospects on that offense compared to k state. im going to take the guy who looks and plays and throws like the other guys.freeman is the guy who looks and throws and plays like the other guys

Babylon
11-11-2008, 04:58 PM
So you're telling me if you could redraft the 2006 draft, you'd still pick Vernon Davis in the first round because of physical skills?

Not a good comparison because physically Freeman doesnt stand out for his position.

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 04:59 PM
How is Sanchez's arm is it elite in your guys opinions?

I've seen Sanchez play in a few games but not enough to make that determination.

Cigaro
11-11-2008, 05:00 PM
Not a good comparison because physically Freeman doesnt stand out for his position.

I was basing it on his statement that Freeman possessed 'first round' physical skills, like Vernon Davis did when drafted.

Babylon
11-11-2008, 05:02 PM
How is Sanchez's arm is it elite in your guys opinions?

I've seen Sanchez play in a few games but not enough to make that determination.


I think Sanchez has a good arm, can make all the throws. If i were to judge the arms race i would have it;

Stafford


Freeman
Sanchez
Bradford
McCoy
Tebow

regoob2
11-11-2008, 05:05 PM
Does that mean every QB in the Big-12 is a great prospect?
No, that's what I'm saying people care too much about inflated stats.

Cigaro
11-11-2008, 05:06 PM
How is Sanchez's arm is it elite in your guys opinions?

I've seen Sanchez play in a few games but not enough to make that determination.

No one said his arm was elite.

When talking about Freeman, the stats against his toughest opponents(which I concluded to be Texas Tech, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri), he completed only 53.76% of his passes, and threw four touchdowns compared to six interceptions. I can only assume that Mark Sanchez would put up much more favorable performances had he been in that situation.

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 05:11 PM
he has a below average nfl arm sanchez. now take sanchez and put him on freemans team you think it would really be better

bspen4
11-11-2008, 05:18 PM
No one said his arm was elite.

When talking about Freeman, the stats against his toughest opponents(which I concluded to be Texas Tech, Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri), he completed only 53.76% of his passes, and threw four touchdowns compared to six interceptions. I can only assume that Mark Sanchez would put up much more favorable performances had he been in that situation.

Whats Staffords stats for his toughest games?

bspen4
11-11-2008, 05:19 PM
Question then, who is the better prospect? Freeman or Mark Sanchez

Freeman imo

Malaka
11-11-2008, 05:20 PM
he has a below average nfl arm sanchez. now take sanchez and put him on freemans team you think it would really be better

So why didn't Pete Carroll recruit him when he was a high school senior, and see his zzzzzzzsness and awsomeness, so that Freeman can win the Heisman 4 years straight with USC and win the National Championship?

Please why didn't USC the QB U take him?

Carson Palmer 1st Round
Matt Leinart 1st Round
JDB 5th Round
Mark Sanchez future 1st round

Josh Freeman... future 3rd rounder.

I think Petey knows what he is doing.

bspen4
11-11-2008, 05:25 PM
So why didn't Pete Carroll recruit him when he was a high school senior, and see his zzzzzzzsness and awsomeness, so that Freeman can win the Heisman 4 years straight with USC and win the National Championship?

Please why didn't USC the QB U take him?

Carson Palmer 1st Round
Matt Leinart 1st Round
JDB 5th Round
Mark Sanchez future 1st round

Josh Freeman... future 3rd rounder.

I think Petey knows what he is doing.

USC never had a chance with Freeman, not many teams did. He committed to Nebraska(before changing to K-State) so early that most teams stopped recruiting him.

Malaka
11-11-2008, 05:27 PM
USC never had a chance with Freeman, not many teams did. He committed to Nebraska(before changing to K-State) so early that most teams stopped recruiting him.

If he changed to K-State (unless he transferred) I am pretty sure USC could have had a try at him, if he is as good as STARHEATHER says.

Cigaro
11-11-2008, 05:27 PM
Whats Staffords stats for his toughest games?

Compiled for South Carolina, Alabama, LSU, Florida, and Kentucky:

Completed 60% of his passes, and threw seven touchdowns to four interceptions. Compiled 1310 yards (262 yards a game) on 91-of-153 passes.

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 05:34 PM
very freemanesque. with a lot better supporting cast. the competition was better though. im sticking with
1.freeman
2. pike
3. stafford
4 perriloux

im not really liking anyone else. maybe chase holbrook late

illmatic74
11-11-2008, 05:43 PM
1.Bradford
2.Stafford
3.Sanchez
4.Davis
5.Freeman if he is rated at about this point he is not overated.

Malaka
11-11-2008, 05:44 PM
Mine goes like this...

1. Bradford
2. Sanchez
3. Stafford
4. Freeman
5. Bhomar

Babylon
11-11-2008, 05:48 PM
So why didn't Pete Carroll recruit him when he was a high school senior, and see his zzzzzzzsness and awsomeness, so that Freeman can win the Heisman 4 years straight with USC and win the National Championship?

Please why didn't USC the QB U take him?

Carson Palmer 1st Round
Matt Leinart 1st Round
JDB 5th Round
Mark Sanchez future 1st round

Josh Freeman... future 3rd rounder.

I think Petey knows what he is doing.

They brought in Sanchez in 2005 so unlikely they would have gone after Freeman, there are usually enough blue chip Californians for the Trojans so they dont need to stray too far. Matt Barkely next in line.

JaxJag_1
11-11-2008, 05:49 PM
Personally I like Freeman because of his size, arm strength, tools, and mobility. He has every tool necessary but he needs to work on his touch and accuracy and I think his problems come when he trusts his arm too much. And I like that Freeman plays in adversity, he plays on a much less talented team where he has to make the plays and he isn't in a situation like where Bradford gets to be in the shotgun all game and stand back in a perfect pocket where he has 2 NFL RB's, a 1st round TE, and 2 NFL WR's.

I'd rank them.....

1. Matthew Stafford
2. Sam Bradford
3. Nate Davis
4. Mark Sanchez
5. Josh Freeman

Babylon
11-11-2008, 06:00 PM
Personally I like Freeman because of his size, arm strength, tools, and mobility. He has every tool necessary but he needs to work on his touch and accuracy and I think his problems come when he trusts his arm too much. And I like that Freeman plays in adversity, he plays on a much less talented team where he has to make the plays and he isn't in a situation like where Bradford gets to be in the shotgun all game and stand back in a perfect pocket where he has 2 NFL RB's, a 1st round TE, and 2 NFL WR's.

I'd rank them.....

1. Matthew Stafford
2. Sam Bradford
3. Nate Davis
4. Mark Sanchez
5. Josh Freeman

I'd find a place in there for McCoy, Tebow and Bomar, interesting group. Good discussion.

illmatic74
11-11-2008, 06:05 PM
They brought in Sanchez in 2005 so unlikely they would have gone after Freeman, there are usually enough blue chip Californians for the Trojans so they dont need to stray too far. Matt Barkely next in line. That doesn't mean they don't stray Cushing from NJ Rivers from FL Mcknight from Louisiana etc

Babylon
11-11-2008, 06:12 PM
That doesn't mean they don't stray Cushing from NJ Rivers from FL Mcknight from Louisiana etc

They definitely recruit nationwide, that was Lane Kiffin's strength. I was referring to QBs, although they did get JDB from Louisiana.

Habibi
11-11-2008, 11:52 PM
Well Stafford too has all the tools minus the mobility that Freeman has, and Stafford has way more talent at UGA. And Stafford isn't there yet as we saw vs. the Gator defense 2 weeks ago.

I'm not a hater on Stafford or a fan of Freeman, I'm just wondering

Why do people insist on bringing up Stafford's surrounding talent when comparing him with Big-12 QBs? Guess what? Stafford also plays against better talent. Logically it cancels out.

And please, where the hell is this unmatched talent he supposedly plays with outside of Knowshon Moreno? Georgia's offensive line is below average, he has no TE, and his WRs are what would be a 5-7 round pick and a rookie who's at best inconsistent.

People are acting like Georgia's offense is the reincarnation of the 2006 USC team.

georgiafan
11-12-2008, 07:27 AM
You can tell he has the size, arm strength and mobility for his size, but like others have said his decison making is pretty bad in the games i've seen. He has the potential he just needs more time in college.

Habibi thats because all people do is look at stats and say UGA has great skill position players. Without knowing the real story about the OL and the fact Stafford has made Massaquoi this year.

themythisbusted
11-12-2008, 01:00 PM
stafford suks. look how he played against florida. he makes too many stupidendous decisions to be a superbowl qb.

Babylon
11-12-2008, 01:34 PM
stafford suks. look how he played against florida. he makes too many stupidendous decisions to be a superbowl qb.

There's stupid and there's stupendous, which is it?

themythisbusted
11-12-2008, 01:41 PM
um... stupid... typo on my part.

hobbes2053
11-12-2008, 01:47 PM
There's stupid and there's stupendous, which is it?

Stu-pid-en-dous [stoo-pid-en-duh s] - something so stupid, it's stupendous; something so stupendous, it's stupid.

Vikes99ej
11-12-2008, 01:51 PM
stafford suks. look how he played against florida. he makes too many stupidendous decisions to be a superbowl qb.

Are you who I think you are?

themythisbusted
11-12-2008, 01:59 PM
im just a guy who calls it as i see it. and the way i see it is that stafford is going to suk ass in the pros. the myth of john matthew stafford is busted.

Babylon
11-12-2008, 02:03 PM
Are you who I think you are?

Seperated at birth maybe?

themythisbusted
11-12-2008, 02:09 PM
i separated from your momma 2 years ago. seriously who u think i is.

D-Unit
11-12-2008, 02:41 PM
Josh Freeman has a strong arm with no accuracy on the deep ball. That's a bad combination.

georgiafan
11-12-2008, 02:48 PM
stafford suks. look how he played against florida. he makes too many stupidendous decisions to be a superbowl qb.

So it was Staffords fault A.J Green ran the wrong route? I'm glad you know more then Mark Richt who said that several times after the game.

T-RICH49
11-12-2008, 02:54 PM
it's not that I hate Freeman personally I personally have seen nothing that makes him a 1st round pick in my honest opinon

D-Unit
11-12-2008, 02:59 PM
it's not that I hate Freeman personally I personally have seen nothing that makes him a 1st round pick in my honest opinon
1st round pick??? I don't even see a 5th round pick in him. He a worse prospect than Andre Woodson.

bored of education
11-12-2008, 03:16 PM
1st round pick??? I don't even see a 5th round pick in him. He a worse prospect than Andre Woodson.

I agree!!!!!!

JaxJag_1
11-12-2008, 04:18 PM
I don't think he's worse than Woodson. Woodson had the long wind up and had less mobility and way less arm strength than Freeman.

sweetd20
11-12-2008, 05:17 PM
Watching Freeman play this year he reminds me of Mike McMahon when he was playing for Detroit. He makes poor decisions and reads while often trying to burn a pass into his receiver when a touch pass would be the better throw. Freeman definately has the tools but I believe he's best served to return for one more year in college. He might also want to think about getting some QB coaching during the offseason to help with his weaknesses.

JaxJag_1
11-12-2008, 08:56 PM
When Freeman comes into the NFL his best situation would be to come in and play behind an established QB for 3 or so years and have a good QB coach to work with him and develop him, if things go right he could be really good, but it will take time

holt_bruce81
11-12-2008, 10:18 PM
I don't think there's a lot of hate for him. In fact I think there's a little to much love. I said in the beginning of the year I wasn't as High on him as most, he's a big guy with a cannon and that's why people fell in love with him so quickly. He does have the tool set to be a very good Quarterback in the future but right now he's all potential. I think he's a 2nd-3rd round guy.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-12-2008, 10:58 PM
I just don't see how he is a 1st round QB at this point. Sure he has a good arm, but all in all he has been pretty bad this year. I would like to see more production from a 1st round QB.

In Big 12 play this year he has completed like 56% of his passes with 4 TD and 6 INTs. Those are totals for 6 games, and there isn't any great defenses in that league this year.

bspen4
11-13-2008, 05:07 PM
Scott's blog offers a good overview of Freeman

P-L
11-13-2008, 05:59 PM
In Big 12 play this year he has completed like 56% of his passes with 4 TD and 6 INTs. Those are totals for 6 games, and there isn't any great defenses in that league this year.
Exactly. If he played in a strong defensive conference like the SEC or Big Ten it would be easier to look past the numbers. However, no one in the Big XII plays any defense. Freeman's overall season numbers aren't even that impressive even before you consider that he has 8 TD and 0 INT against North Texas, Montana State, and Louisiana-Lafayette.

bspen4
11-13-2008, 09:06 PM
Exactly. If he played in a strong defensive conference like the SEC or Big Ten it would be easier to look past the numbers. However, no one in the Big XII plays any defense. Freeman's overall season numbers aren't even that impressive even before you consider that he has 8 TD and 0 INT against North Texas, Montana State, and Louisiana-Lafayette.

Have you watched a game of his? He has absolutely no O-Line. He can barely drop back without being flushed from the pocket.

holt_bruce81
11-13-2008, 09:31 PM
Exactly. If he played in a strong defensive conference like the SEC or Big Ten it would be easier to look past the numbers. However, no one in the Big XII plays any defense. Freeman's overall season numbers aren't even that impressive even before you consider that he has 8 TD and 0 INT against North Texas, Montana State, and Louisiana-Lafayette.

Eh I don't know if you can throw that in as part of the argument, I mean Matt Ryan didn't have a great completion percentage playing in the ACC last year and throughout his collegiate career.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-13-2008, 09:49 PM
It has mostly to do with mythbusta/starheather overrating him by a ridiculous amount. If it weren't for that people would see him for what he is, a guy with amazing tools that hasn't put it all together, opposed to everyone hating on him because mythbusta is annoying.

Exactly. When one group, or person, deifies a prospect, the rest of the people have to focus on his weaknesses in order to poke holes in it. Case in point: Reggie Bush. Some people thought he would light the league on fire from day one. Actually, that was MOST people. They crucified Houston for taking Mario over him. Myself and others were called haters for simply pointing out he wasn't Marshall Faulk or LDT, and saying at best he'd be a rich man's Brian Westbrook. Of course, West wasn't as good as he is now, but still.

draftguru151
11-13-2008, 09:52 PM
I think a better example would be Jordy. :p

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-13-2008, 09:55 PM
I was under the impression he ran about 4.85 at his LSU pro day and he looks heavier these days. If you say he's mobile fine by me.

He's not Vince Young type of mobile. Brady Quinn is closer to VY than Russell is, in terms of mobility. But from his last year at LSU, I could see, he had amazing pocket mobility, in the mold of a Brady or Manning. Quinn, his senior year, lacked that to an extent.

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 09:58 PM
2. reasons

1.mythbusta/starheather
2. doesnt play for usc, oklahoma or florida ohio st thus cannot possibly be good because the only good nfl players come from there because everyone that goes there is automatically the best player ever.

giantsfan
11-13-2008, 10:02 PM
2. doesnt play for usc, oklahoma or florida ohio st thus cannot possibly be good because the only good nfl players come from there because everyone that goes there is automatically the best player ever.

Dude are you stupid?

you're forgetting Texas

bspen4
11-13-2008, 10:03 PM
Dude are you stupid?

you're forgetting Texas

Ha gotta love the white font

Joker_232
11-13-2008, 10:42 PM
Dude are you stupid?

you're forgetting Texas

lol the white font is very clever

.....somethin the joker would think of

DoWnThEfiElD
11-14-2008, 09:15 AM
Eh I don't know if you can throw that in as part of the argument, I mean Matt Ryan didn't have a great completion percentage playing in the ACC last year and throughout his collegiate career.

I think your missing the point. Matt Ryan at least had decent numbers. Freeman has done nothing as a passer against any decent team this year.

ElectricEye
11-14-2008, 09:31 AM
Even though Matt Ryan didn't have a great completion percentage against the ACC, he still put up good yardage and touchdown numbers. More importantly; he won games. I really don't like when people bring up Matt Ryan when a guy has bad numbers though. First of all, I would dispute that he actually had bad numbers considering the number of passes he threw and the talent around him. Secondly, because of the talent he had, that season was absolutely freaky. Nobody has done more as a passer with less in recent memory. It's really not a good standard to judge a quarterback on.

As far as Freeman goes, he's been pretty damned awful in conference play. Most of the games I've seen him play have been conference ones as well...so my opinion of him is kinda skewed because of that. Still, with everybody else torching the Big XII, he doesn't have any excuses. His supporting cast might be the worst of out all the guys there, but still.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-14-2008, 09:36 AM
Not to mention playing in the Big 12 is a quarterbacks dream, they all throw for 300 yards and 3 touchdowns every game because of the lack of defense in that conference. Ryan at least played in a conference with legit defenses.

illmatic74
11-14-2008, 11:52 AM
Freeman plays in the Big 12 but his stats don't compare of other Big 12 QBs because he has less talent on his team and he plays in a pro style offense not a spread like everyone else in the confrence. I wouldn't take him over Bradford but I would definitely over McCoy, Harrel, Robinson, Daniel.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-14-2008, 12:20 PM
Freeman plays in the Big 12 but his stats don't compare of other Big 12 QBs because he has less talent on his team and he plays in a pro style offense not a spread like everyone else in the confrence. I wouldn't take him over Bradford but I would definitely over McCoy, Harrel, Robinson, Daniel.

His stats are non-existant. Thats the point he has done nothing in conference play. It's not that they don't measure up to the other QBs in that league its the fact that they are so bad. They are poor, the guy has not proved a thing in college football yet people want to talk about him as this great 1st round prospect.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 12:57 PM
Not to mention playing in the Big 12 is a quarterbacks dream, they all throw for 300 yards and 3 touchdowns every game because of the lack of defense in that conference. Ryan at least played in a conference with legit defenses.

callin ACC defenses legit is kind of a stretch...

illmatic74
11-14-2008, 01:00 PM
His stats are non-existant. Thats the point he has done nothing in conference play. It's not that they don't measure up to the other QBs in that league its the fact that they are so bad. They are poor, the guy has not proved a thing in college football yet people want to talk about him as this great 1st round prospect.I don't think he is a first rounder yet. But he should atleast be a second round pick and I would draft him over Tebow, Mccoy, Harrel, Etc

DoWnThEfiElD
11-14-2008, 01:13 PM
callin ACC defenses legit is kind of a stretch...

Ya well in comparison to Big 12 they are. He beat a good Va Tech defense.

Also I would take Tebow over Freeman anyday. Freeman is a project, he is going to need a lot of time before he develops into a NFL QB. Tebow will need some time but I think he is way more prepared to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he is the type of guy that would have suceeded in any type offense he ran in college.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 01:20 PM
Ya well in comparison to Big 12 they are. He beat a good Va Tech defense.

Also I would take Tebow over Freeman anyday. Freeman is a project, he is going to need a lot of time before he develops into a NFL QB. Tebow will need some time but I think he is way more prepared to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he is the type of guy that would have suceeded in any type offense he ran in college.

maybe well more prepared to play tight end!

illmatic74
11-14-2008, 01:20 PM
Ya well in comparison to Big 12 they are. He beat a good Va Tech defense.

Also I would take Tebow over Freeman anyday. Freeman is a project, he is going to need a lot of time before he develops into a NFL QB. Tebow will need some time but I think he is way more prepared to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he is the type of guy that would have suceeded in any type offense he ran in college.Tebow is more of a project. Freeman comes from a pro style offense where he has to dropback, read coverage and make NFL throws. He also has experience in the play action game. Also with Freeman's size,arm strength and a quick release he has more of an upside.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-14-2008, 01:23 PM
I see where you guys are coming from with Tebow and I respect the difference of opinions. I see Tebow as a football player who would do great anywhere and in any offense he played in. I'm far more impressed with him thus far than Freeman. I think Freeman is all measurables with no substance...yet.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 01:24 PM
Tebow is more of a project. Freeman comes from a pro style offense where he has to dropback, read coverage and make NFL throws. He also has experience in the play action game. Also with Freeman's size,arm strength and a quick release he has more of an upside.

agree with you 110%. i honestly hate tebow as a QB he is not good. he has the best skill guys in the country and that makes him look a hell of alot better than he is.

giantsfan
11-14-2008, 01:34 PM
I see where you guys are coming from with Tebow and I respect the difference of opinions. I see Tebow as a football player who would do great anywhere and in any offense he played in. I'm far more impressed with him thus far than Freeman. I think Freeman is all measurables with no substance...yet.

I love Tebow, but he's going to need a season just to fix his mechanics and footwork, and then almost a another full season to get used to making NFL reads

Babylon
11-14-2008, 02:04 PM
His stats are non-existant. Thats the point he has done nothing in conference play. It's not that they don't measure up to the other QBs in that league its the fact that they are so bad. They are poor, the guy has not proved a thing in college football yet people want to talk about him as this great 1st round prospect.


I wouldnt say his stats are non existant. Last year he was a 63% passer when he had a legit threat in Jordy Nelson and this year he's in the high 50s range with less talent around him. I'm not that high on him but his numbers are decent, i would be more worried about deep ball accuracy and decision making.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 03:03 PM
I love Tebow, but he's going to need a season just to fix his mechanics and footwork, and then almost a another full season to get used to making NFL reads

i just think people are expecting more out of him than they did out of Alex Smith.

Alex was much better fundamentally than Tebow is.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-14-2008, 03:26 PM
Well you have to account for the fact Tebow has proven his skills as a football player for almost 3 years in one of the best conferences in the nation.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 04:59 PM
Well you have to account for the fact Tebow has proven his skills as a football player for almost 3 years in one of the best conferences in the nation.

in an offense where he has absolutely no reads, im not saying alex was any different but his fundamentals were much much better

Menardo75
11-14-2008, 05:05 PM
I seriously think Tebow is destined for a Chris Cooley H-back type position.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 05:09 PM
I seriously think Tebow is destined for a Chris Cooley H-back type position.

hes a good athlete so its possible. but the first time he tries to run over an NFL linebacker the way he does in college hes going to die.

Menardo75
11-14-2008, 05:14 PM
hes a good athlete so its possible. but the first time he tries to run over an NFL linebacker the way he does in college hes going to die.

He will learn. I have read that fullback is what he will be. I would use a first day pick on him and make him an H-back. He would bring a lot of flexability in what you can do.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 05:17 PM
He will learn. I have read that fullback is what he will be. I would use a first day pick on him and make him an H-back. He would bring a lot of flexability in what you can do.

hes a good athlete and that will help him alot. he could be a good back up but i just dont see him being an elite QB in the NFL....he could bring some dimensions to the offense that would be different (trick plays ect.) idk..

illmatic74
11-14-2008, 05:33 PM
hes a good athlete and that will help him alot. he could be a good back up but i just dont see him being an elite QB in the NFL....he could bring some dimensions to the offense that would be different (trick plays ect.) idk..They could put him at FB fake the run then he throws a jump pass.

Joker_232
11-14-2008, 05:35 PM
They could put him at FB fake the run then he throws a jump pass.

thatd be tight! i would enjoy seein that one

wattupMarcel
01-03-2011, 11:17 PM
these posts make me laugh when u look back at them

wordofi
01-03-2011, 11:28 PM
1st round pick??? I don't even see a 5th round pick in him. He a worse prospect than Andre Woodson.

Haha!!! Not even close.

JPP90
01-03-2011, 11:30 PM
If Newton or Locker succeed there are gonna be about 2 pages of material to look back on and poke fun at.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-03-2011, 11:31 PM
we were all wrong

bow down to the mighty starheather

wattupMarcel
01-04-2011, 01:34 AM
we were all wrong

bow down to the mighty starheather

everyone wasn't wrong..just the ones who were wrong

Scott Wright
01-04-2011, 02:17 AM
Since we are taking a stroll down memory lane, here's an old blog I wrote about Freeman.


September 5th, 2008

With such a weak crop of senior quarterbacks everyone is wondering where the first round signal callers are going to come from. Most of the talk so far has centered around Matthew Stafford and Tim Tebow but there is another junior passer who has been generating quite a bit of buzz in the scouting community.

Josh Freeman of Kansas St.

One of the top recruits in the nation coming out of high school, Freeman originally committed to Nebraska before changing course and ending up at K-State. Physically Freeman has everything you look for in a top quarterback prospect, including outstanding size (6-6, 250), a big arm and above average athleticism. Freeman is still developing as a passer but he began to emerge as a very intriguing prospect as a sophomore in '07, completing 63% of his passes for 3,300 yards with an 18-to-11 TD to INT ratio. If he can continue to improve and make similar strides as a junior Freeman could enjoy a JaMarcus Russell-esque rise up pro draft boards.

Odds are Freeman will stay in school all four years and that would probably be a wise choice because he's not a finished product by any stretch of the imagination. With that said he has a special set of physical tools that already has some scouts drooling and even though he doesn't get nearly as much ink as some of the other signal callers in his class Freeman could eventually end up being just as good of a prospect. With all the attention quarterbacks get it's rare for one to fly under the radar but that might actually be the case with this guy.

Keep a close eye on Josh Freeman, if not for 2009 then definitely for 2010.

CashmoneyDrew
01-04-2011, 02:18 AM
we were all wrong

bow down to the mighty starheather

The same Starheather that said Tony Pike was a better prospect than Sam Bradford?

Riiiiiiggghhhhtttt......

purplepat
01-04-2011, 03:08 PM
This was a pretty funny thread to read...

I don't know enough about these guys to compare apples to oranges, but I'd say Freeman has acquitted himself better than Stafford (who can't stay healthy) and Sanchez (inconsistent at best, with a much better cast around him).

ElectricEye
01-04-2011, 03:33 PM
In retrospect, I was paying way more attention to the numbers than the level of play he was bringing to the field. That's something I used to do waaaay too much of I think. Always liked the physical tools, thought he would be a solid second round pick that could end up developing into a franchise quarterback, but I had a hard time seeing him do so well in the NFL right away when everyone and their brother was putting up MASSIVE numbers in the Big XII(which was easily the worst conference in terms of pass defense the past five years, sans Texas) and he was struggling numerically.

Cigaro
01-04-2011, 03:35 PM
Yep, I'm **** at evaluating QBs.

ElectricEye
01-04-2011, 03:37 PM
The same Starheather that said Tony Pike was a better prospect than Sam Bradford?

Riiiiiiggghhhhtttt......
Also that Terrence Cody was the best prospect in the draft. I used to really get into it with him. Again, in retrospect, stupid haha.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2011, 03:41 PM
i mean obviously i was joking but it is pretty ironic that starheather was in love with Pike, a guy who has a peashooter for arm

ElectricEye
01-04-2011, 03:43 PM
i mean obviously i was joking but it is pretty ironic that starheather was in love with Pike, a guy who has a peashooter for arm

That would be a four page argument haha. Pike had the strongest arm in the draft, according to him. People believed him as well. Lots of people here were putting Pike in the first or second round that year.

bullg8rdaddy
01-04-2011, 11:33 PM
Great thread. Would read again.

MattyFos
01-05-2011, 02:59 PM
Funny stuff. I'm so proud of the progress Tebow has made. Josh Freeman too for that matter. I didn't know he had so many critics. He always seemed raw, but extremely talented.

bucfan12
01-05-2011, 03:14 PM
Funny stuff. I'm so proud of the progress Tebow has made. Josh Freeman too for that matter. I didn't know he had so many critics. He always seemed raw, but extremely talented.

Tebow has played well, but his mechanics are still sloppy. He still has that windup release and I thought he worked very hard to improve and get it shorter. I guess Mayock was right. When you're used to something for years, it's very hard to change it. But that is the biggest knock on him right now though. Not bad. I hope he improves.

MattyFos
01-05-2011, 03:22 PM
Tebow has played well, but his mechanics are still sloppy. He still has that windup release and I thought he worked very hard to improve and get it shorter. I guess Mayock was right. When you're used to something for years, it's very hard to change it. But that is the biggest knock on him right now though. Not bad. I hope he improves.

Two things
1. Mayock is always right.
2. I, and hopefully nobody else, expected him to have perfect mechanics one year after completely changing his throwing motion. I think he will continue making strides. It did look like he was dropping the ball to his hip whilst he was QBing the Broncos. But I would still take him over Clausen and McCoy. Knowing what I know now, I would take Tebow over McCoy.

bucfan12
01-05-2011, 03:27 PM
Two things
1. Mayock is always right.
2. I, and hopefully nobody else, expected him to have perfect mechanics one year after completely changing his throwing motion. I think he will continue making strides. It did look like he was dropping the ball to his hip whilst he was QBing the Broncos. But I would still take him over Clausen and McCoy. Knowing what I know now, I would take Tebow over McCoy.

I think I would take anybody of Clausen.

MattyFos
01-05-2011, 03:29 PM
I think I would take anybody of Clausen.

lol............. (ten characters. Not an awkward pause)

cajuncorey
01-05-2011, 03:32 PM
I think I would take anybody of Clausen.

is that a sentence?

bucfan12
01-05-2011, 03:35 PM
is that a sentence?

I meant to say "over" haha my bad.

brasho
01-05-2011, 05:51 PM
Wow, just reading through these comments, there were some incredible off people here. People saying he isn't mobile (or as mobile as Byron Leftwich), God frowns upon him, he sucks... wow, I hope those people have since disappeared or have seized making comments.

MassNole
09-25-2013, 05:04 PM
Wow, just reading through these comments, there were some incredible off people here. People saying he isn't mobile (or as mobile as Byron Leftwich), God frowns upon him, he sucks... wow, I hope those people have since disappeared or have seized making comments.

:banana:

Apparently 'those people' now coach in Tampa Bay.