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View Full Version : Uncapped year/CBA Draft Implications


Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 08:24 PM
This is just a theory I have going.. but...

With 2009 looking like the last year of the CBA... there could be a record number of juniors coming out.

If they institute a rookie salary cap, could push some juniors to jump this year where they have more lee-way in their contract process.

Plus I'm not sure what their rights are necessarily if there is no CBA, that the teams could possibly choose to pay them below what is now considered the minimum salary?

I'm not saying this is likely or definite, just something I've been rolling around in my mind.

STARHEATHER
11-12-2008, 08:45 PM
could we see maaluga and laurinitis in rd 4?

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 08:47 PM
could we see maaluga and laurinitis in rd 4?

That likelihood of that happening is on par with you posting a good analysis.

STARHEATHER
11-12-2008, 08:53 PM
well if all those jrs come out. if 50% of jrs come out rather than the normal 10% id think youd see their stock fall. i have a question. how is it the best lb prospect ever maaluga not in the top 100 in college football in tackles, solos, tfl be a top 15 semifinalst for best defensive player. how can a lb with 0 sacks and 1.5 tfl against lets face it about the easiest schedule in history be the best lb prospect ever. im just scratching my head

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 09:04 PM
well if all those jrs come out. if 50% of jrs come out rather than the normal 10% id think youd see their stock fall. i have a question. how is it the best lb prospect ever maaluga not in the top 100 in college football in tackles, solos, tfl be a top 15 semifinalst for best defensive player. how can a lb with 0 sacks and 1.5 tfl against lets face it about the easiest schedule in history be the best lb prospect ever. im just scratching my head

Because he has the most talented Defense around him?

Cushing, Maola, Griffen, Matthews, Ellison, Mays and probably about 3-5 more guys will get a pro shot from that defense.

Not to mention...

USC IS:

#3 in Rushing Defense
#1 in Total Defense
#1 in Scoring Defense
#1 in Pass Defense
#28 in Sacks
#6 in Tackles for Loss


Look at the top 10 guys for "Average Tackles per game"...

Of those only 2 guys (#5/#10) Come from big schools.


1 Derrick Richardson, New Mexico St. DB
2 Jason Beauchamp, UNLV LB
3 Joe Pawelek, Baylor LB
4 Frantz Joseph, Fla. Atlantic LB
5 Sean Weatherspoon, Missouri LB
5 Gerald McRath, Southern Miss. LB
5 Brit Miller, Illinois LB
5 Michael Tauiliili, Duke LB
9 Nick Bellore, Central Mich. LB
10 Travis Lewis, Oklahoma LB

None of those guys have near the talent around them as Maualuga does. Coupled to a potent offense.

And I'll add 1 more thing.

1)

how is it the best lb prospect ever maaluga not in the top 100 in college football in tackles, solos, tfl be a top 15 semifinalst for best defensive player. how can a lb with 0 sacks and 1.5 tfl against lets face it about the easiest schedule in history be the best lb prospect ever.

No one is touting him as the "Best prahspecked evah". A lot of people actually watch the way he plays, love his attitude and motor. He can be an exceptional defender. No one is touting him as the next Jack Lambert. We're touting him as one of the top ILB's in this draft because.. He is.

Smokey Joe
11-12-2008, 09:13 PM
why exactly would there be a rookie salary cap if the CBA goes away?

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 09:35 PM
why exactly would there be a rookie salary cap if the CBA goes away?

My bad I didn't explain that.

They Current CBA plays out until 2009 (They had a stipulation or someway regarding things would stay the same, or they're opting out next year, I forget the reason but I'm pretty sure that next season will be under the same deal as this).

My point was, if in fact the current CBA goes out, There's not an agreement between the Players Union and the owners, a lot of the standards go out, I believe (Minimum Salary etc.)

If they agree to a new Collective Bargaining agreement, it could be inserted a Rookie Salary Draft Structure (Like the NBA)... meaning that 2010 draft prospects would get salaries slated on draft area, not agents haggling.

which could push a bunch of guys on the fringe and not really educated on how the CBA works.

Because not only could they think that they're going to get less money, but, they could be "Lured" out by prospective agents warning them of such.


Though this could all be moot because while the first 10 or so players in the draft would effectively have their starting contracts cut by a fairly large percentage, picks 11 through probably 70 would see a minor increase, if they follow the NBA draft style.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-12-2008, 10:49 PM
We'll see. I'm not sure how many prospects are focusing on this, meaning that agents are going to have to convince guys to leave school early while try not to violate any rules. Maybe more than most years, I expect the top 10 to mostly made of underclassmen, but I'm not yet convinced we'll see a mass migration of juniors and third-year sophomores to the NFL this offseason.

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 11:22 PM
We'll see. I'm not sure how many prospects are focusing on this, meaning that agents are going to have to convince guys to leave school early while try not to violate any rules. Maybe more than most years, I expect the top 10 to mostly made of underclassmen, but I'm not yet convinced we'll see a mass migration of juniors and third-year sophomores to the NFL this offseason.

Yeah, like I said it was just something I was kicking around in my head.

Though I believe Athletes are allowed Consults but not a hiring of an Agent?

I'm not saying it's going to be 100 or so, but if the average is 40 I could see 60-65.

SuperKevin
11-12-2008, 11:45 PM
I agree if there is any threat of a rookie salary cap you'll see anywhere from 60-80 underclassmen declare

ElectricEye
11-12-2008, 11:54 PM
I could see an extra 20 or so coming out. It's a factor, for sure. Any kind of rookie cap would result in a dramatic cut in pay for a lot of guys, but especially the elite level ones. That's what people are mad about the most. The fact that guys are getting paid like elite players despite not having played a down in the NFL.

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 11:58 PM
I could see an extra 20 or so coming out. It's a factor, for sure. Any kind of rookie cap would result in a dramatic cut in pay for a lot of guys, but especially the elite level ones. That's what people are mad about the most. The fact that guys are getting paid like elite players despite not having played a down in the NFL.

Agreed, which is why I don't necessarily see a problem. It in fact creates more Parity.

Though, the thought of having 60-80 Juniors. I mean, It would probably be the deepest draft in history.

SuperKevin
11-12-2008, 11:59 PM
Agreed, which is why I don't necessarily see a problem. It in fact creates more Parity.

Though, the thought of having 60-80 Juniors. I mean, It would probably be the deepest draft in history.

And 2009 could be the weakest year in college football history

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 12:15 AM
And 2009 could be the weakest year in college football history

Could be, or it could lead to more younger players getting an opportunity.

I'm sure there's quite a few guys that have the talent to make it in the pro's that don't get the opportunity.

With a bunch of guys out of the way, colleges have to fill the voids and some players just click when they're on the field.

ElectricEye
11-13-2008, 12:18 AM
And 2009 could be the weakest year in college football history

This one was pretty weak, senior wise. If all the major guys come out and the rest show up the the ball too, it would lead to some interesting NFL ramifications as well. Theoretically, it would be very easy to pickup cheap, young talent by trading down for as many draft picks as you could. Navigating this draft would be interesting as a GM.

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 12:20 AM
This one was pretty weak, senior wise. If all the major guys come out and the rest show up the the ball too, it would lead to some interesting NFL ramifications as well. Theoretically, it would be very easy to pickup cheap, young talent by trading down for as many draft picks as you could. Navigating this draft would be interesting as a GM.

Teams like Detroit and Philly would be licking their chops.

With that being the case, I couldn't see many teams trading up.

I think the biggest noticeable difference could be the amount of UDFA's signed and how many make the team.

I still think NFL Rosters need to be bigger..

ElectricEye
11-13-2008, 12:25 AM
That is true. People really don't want to pay the guys towards the top end anyway. Still, if it's big, any kind of trading down could really get you quite a bit of value.

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 12:29 AM
That is true. People really don't want to pay the guys towards the top end anyway. Still, if it's big, any kind of trading down could really get you quite a bit of value.

Top 5 is always rough agreed.

I think if that happens, teams that feel they're a piece or 2 away, could jump up...

Teams that feel they're depth is weak and need young future studs could get a bunch of talent in a trade down.

God I hope Russell Okung comes out.

Only downside is...

teams that have been pathetic drafting could get on a level playing field now (Parity) but not because they're superior talent scouters, but because of over saturation of talent.

CashmoneyDrew
11-13-2008, 12:39 AM
Teams like Detroit and Philly would be licking their chops.

With that being the case, I couldn't see many teams trading up.

I think the biggest noticeable difference could be the amount of UDFA's signed and how many make the team.

I still think NFL Rosters need to be bigger..

I think more players should be allowed to suit up on game day. It's 48 right? I think it should be the whole roster.

Menardo75
11-13-2008, 12:40 AM
I am all for a rookie salary cap. And as a young college football player, all those guys leaving would not bother me :) lol

ElectricEye
11-13-2008, 12:44 AM
I think more players should be allowed to suit up on game day. It's 48 right? I think it should be the whole roster.

That would kind of change the game. I'm not sure I would want anything that drastic.

A bigger roster would be nice though.

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 12:53 AM
I think more players should be allowed to suit up on game day. It's 48 right? I think it should be the whole roster.

I'm pretty certain it's:

45 gameday (3rd QB can come in but 1st/2nd QB's can't)
53 Active
8 PS.

I suggest:

53 Gameday (P/K/LS don't count, 3rd QB does)
63 Active
10 PS.

It'd be an additional 12 guys, but it would allow more rotation therefore less injuries due to bad form when exhausted.

My 53 would essentially give you 10 more gameday spots.

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 12:57 AM
That would kind of change the game. I'm not sure I would want anything that drastic.

A bigger roster would be nice though.

It would change the dynamic, but since the league is all about safety...

And you would see more of a development system. Now you have to lose guys that are 2-4 years from being a player.. now you do have room to stash them.

Plus an additional 10 guys:

53- 45 = 8 - 3rd QB = 7Spots + P/K/LS not counting = 10.

Thats enough to field a coverage unit so you don't have to worry about injuring a main player.

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 01:40 AM
I just had a friend more CBA savvy than myself and he said this.

First, the CBA does not run out in 2009. The Cap does not apply to 2010, but the CBA still exists after that (through 2010 I think). After that, I do not believe that the teams can play football without a labor agreement with the NFLPA, unless they decide to play with scrubs, which would push away many fans.

2010 would be un-capped if the CBA is not extended, but the CBA would still be in effect (no cap is, in fact, a part of the CBA), and I believe the minimum salaries and such would still apply in 2010. The "No Cap" scenario was a poison pill added to the CBA to encourage renegotiation and giving owners/players an option to opt out early (which forces earlier negotiation) if they no longer liked the terms of the CBA.

In terms of a rookie pay scale... it shouldn't change contract values too much, unless you are a top 5-8 player. Most contracts for rookies fit along a linear (downward sloping) line; the only contracts that do not fit the linear progression are the top 8 or so contracts, which make huge jumps in terms of contract numbers. So, at best, if a college player is concerned over a rookie salary structure, you might see the top 1-2 juniors from 2010 declare in 2009 if they believe they will be in the top 8 players selected. Otherwise, college players should declare or not declare due to the typical reasons: want or don't want to stay in school, want/don't care about their education, need/don't need money for their family, etc.

The bigger issue I think you would see is the UFA/RFA rules - players become a UFA after 6 NFL years, not 4. There will also be a "final 4" rule that prevents the 4 teams that play in the AFCC and NFCC game from signing too many players - in fact, they can only sign one "higher priced" FA (outside of their own). The 30% rule -- any raise in compensation (not including prorated signing bonus, but including base salary) can not increase by more than 30% from one year to the next -- would also be an issue, as backloading contracts would become much harder. These are all additional poison pills, on top of the "no cap" poison pill, that were intended to force negotiation between the NFL and NFLPA.

CroomDawgs
11-13-2008, 08:59 AM
could we see maaluga and laurinitis in rd 4?


Could we see you leave? Forever? Please?

DoWnThEfiElD
11-13-2008, 09:57 AM
I don't really think this would have too much effect. For the most part there is a slotting system, contracts are usually negotiated after the 1st pick is done, they just want to put a cap on the money these rookies are getting. However I don't see guys who are second or third round players jumping to come out, when they still have to believe another year in college can push them into round one to make more money.

Sniper
11-13-2008, 10:00 AM
could we see maaluga and laurinitis in rd 4?

No. End of story.

Race for the Heisman
11-13-2008, 10:41 AM
When you talk about roster expansion the first thing that comes to mind is increased specialization. Sure your starters might not get hurt fielding kicks, but when the sport has come as far as it already has, I think overspecialization would start to become a concern. Star players drive leagues and support franchises (look at LeBron and Cleveland) and increased specialization might lead to a higher level of play on whole, while decreasing the talent required of the players involved.

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 10:06 PM
if hes not the next jack lambert, and hes not, then why would you consider a top 10 pick. as i see it, a lb picked in the top 10 better be great. and all those things about motor and tenacity. pr. youre talking about a guy whos managed to get in the backfield once the entire year playing wash st every week. not being in the top 100 in tackles doesnt scream great motor. this dude hasnt been on the good end of an even up head on collision in his life. so these frauds being spread about great hitter are not only false but totally opposite to truth. hes taking it out there not dishing it out. then add slow and unathletic compared to the nfl level. disaster of dorseyesque proportions

Sniper
11-13-2008, 10:14 PM
if hes not the next jack lambert, and hes not, then why would you consider a top 10 pick. as i see it, a lb picked in the top 10 better be great. and all those things about motor and tenacity. pr. youre talking about a guy whos managed to get in the backfield once the entire year playing wash st every week. not being in the top 100 in tackles doesnt scream great motor. this dude hasnt been on the good end of an even up head on collision in his life. so these frauds being spread about great hitter are not only false but totally opposite to truth. hes taking it out there not dishing it out. then add slow and unathletic compared to the nfl level. disaster of dorseyesque proportions

Juice Williams, Justin Forsett, Patrick Cowan, Rudy Carpenter are all guys who'd disagree with you.

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 10:18 PM
jonathan stewart and dennis dixon and jacquizz green would not. i like your players though. not an nfl guy on there

Sniper
11-13-2008, 10:23 PM
jonathan stewart and dennis dixon and jacquizz green would not. i like your players though. not an nfl guy on there

Who is Jacquizz Green?

And what does it matter if they're NFL players? You said he's never been in an even head up collision. Nowhere did you say anything about NFL caliber players.

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 10:32 PM
you know that 5 6 180 lb freshman rb who ran over him so much maaluga had to leave the game with injured pride. this guys so bad, he gets owned by dudes youve never even heard of. it absolutely matters at the nfl level. because if 5 6 180 18 yr olds are running you over and past you all night, what are you going to do with adrian peterson. im sure he used his patented defenseless hit when the guy isnt looking. the players hes "blowing up" (very loosely) arent good.

bspen4
11-13-2008, 10:35 PM
I keep trying to neg rep Heather but it's telling me to spread some rep around. On topic though, how can you not be impressed by Maulaga? He has the tenacity and skills to be a great player. On the CBA I think it will lead to a major group of players to declare. And why not, they will leave when they can make the most money and that is before they change the CBA

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 10:43 PM
because he has none of those skills. none. he cant shed blocks. he misses tackles. hes slow. hes unathletic. he doesnt produce stats. he gets run over by 180 lb rbs. hes not a big hitter. he gets hit big.hes not tebnacious on the field. hes a wimp on the field. this dude is a pr department creation nothing more

Joker_232
11-13-2008, 10:46 PM
Could we see you leave? Forever? Please?

WHOOOOO! WORD!

Joker_232
11-13-2008, 10:47 PM
because he has none of those skills. none. he cant shed blocks. he misses tackles. hes slow. hes unathletic. he doesnt produce stats. he gets run over by 180 lb rbs. hes not a big hitter. he gets hit big.hes not tebnacious on the field. hes a wimp on the field. this dude is a pr department creation nothing more

and you do nothing but sit behind a cpu and talk crap about stud football players...

Sniper
11-13-2008, 10:50 PM
you know that 5 6 180 lb freshman rb who ran over him so much maaluga had to leave the game with injured pride. this guys so bad, he gets owned by dudes youve never even heard of.

There's a reason I haven't heard of Jacquizz Green. BECAUSE HE DOESN'T ******* EXIST! There's Jacquizz RODGERS, but there's no Jacquizz Green. You again fail at life.

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 10:53 PM
i wish. at least establish yourself with some decent info. i swear every week i see a new rookie whos only purpose is to disparage me. if you disagree tell me why. or talk about the cba or make your own new post. id prefer to talk poorly about them now than 4 yrs from now when youve paid them 30 mil to get killed in the nfl when they were supposed to be great players. thats why im mthbusta/starheather. thats my angle

Sniper
11-13-2008, 10:55 PM
And Jacquizz Rodgers has destroyed almost everyone he's played this year. He's averaging 4.78 ypcarry and 8.85 ypcatch. He's got over 1,300 yards and 11 touchdowns.

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 10:55 PM
yes jacuizz rodgers. i think you know who i meant from oregon st. not jacuizz green wr. i think the point was made you know who he is. you know what he did to maaluga. put him out o the game

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 10:57 PM
4.78 per carry. well shonn greene is averagiing over 6 ypc. so hes obviously not blowing up everyone. thats a good nfl average. its not a good college average

Sniper
11-13-2008, 10:59 PM
4.78 per carry. well shonn greene is averagiing over 6 ypc. so hes obviously not blowing up everyone. thats a good nfl average. its not a good college average

Shonn Greene is a 235 pound junior. Jacquizz Rodgers is a 170 lbs freshman. Slight difference.

Joker_232
11-13-2008, 11:00 PM
yes jacuizz rodgers. i think you know who i meant from oregon st. not jacuizz green wr. i think the point was made you know who he is. you know what he did to maaluga. put him out o the game


If you can tackle that fool ill give you dollar

STARHEATHER
11-13-2008, 11:04 PM
it doesnt matter if i can

Joker_232
11-13-2008, 11:10 PM
it doesnt matter if i can

well....you give other people crap about not being able to.

so lets see you do it