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View Full Version : Everette Brown > Brian Orakpo?


Matthew Jones
11-15-2008, 11:44 AM
That's what I think. Here's the statistics:

2008: (YTD)

Brown - 23 tackles, 15 tackles for loss, 9 sacks
Orakpo - 31 tackles, 13 tackles for loss, 8.5 sacks

2007:

Brown - 36 tackles, 11.5 tackles for loss, 6.5 sacks
Orakpo - 27 tackles, 8 tackles for loss, 5.5 sacks

2006:

Brown - 27 tackles, 13.5 tackles for loss, 3 sacks
Orakpo - 17 tackles, 6 tackles for loss, 5 sacks

Totals:

Brown - 86 tackles, 40 tackles for loss, 18.5 sacks
Orakpo - 75 tackles, 27 tackles for loss, 19 sacks

And the measurables:

Everette Brown (Jr.) - 6'4 1/4", 252 pounds, 4.60 estimated
Brian Orakpo (Sr.) - 6'3 1/2", 255 pounds, 4.65 estimated

I think both of these guys could be top-10 picks in this upcoming draft depending on who's picking. Both are ideal 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs so teams from both defenses could be very interested. Who do you prefer?

scottyboy
11-15-2008, 11:46 AM
Jamal Westerman>>>both of them

TACKLE
11-15-2008, 11:48 AM
I think Everette Brown is definitely overlooked as a top pick. I think that he has the best first step of any DE is this class. I still like Orakpo more because I think he's a more complete player and better size. But as far as pure pass rushing ability, Everette Brown may be the best in this group of DE's.

619
11-15-2008, 11:49 AM
Jamal Westerman>>>both of them

Only because he's Canadian. :D

MetSox17
11-15-2008, 12:08 PM
An comparison/opinion based purely on stats is a horrible one to be made in the first place.

619
11-15-2008, 12:24 PM
I still like Orakpo more because I think he's a more complete player and better size.

More complete player yes, but better size no they're about equal there.

keylime_5
11-15-2008, 12:36 PM
both surefire first rounders. Orakpo gets a little more hype and attention being on a great team, but Brown isn't as far behind as it is made out to be.

BeerBaron
11-15-2008, 12:44 PM
From what i've witnessed, I think Orakpo plays like a freak out there, just what you want to see in a top 10 pick. I think he has a shot at being the first defender off the board.

Im actually watching Texas-Kansas right now and I'm going to keep an extra eye out for Orakpo to see some more.

Can't speak much for Brown just yet, but the more 1st round quality DE's there is the better it is for my Bears!

TACKLE
11-15-2008, 12:45 PM
More complete player yes, but better size no they're about equal there.

Brown is leaner and closer to 250 where as Orakpo is more built and is around 265.

Solomon
11-15-2008, 01:10 PM
Orakpo is stronger, more powerful, uses his hands better, plays the run better and has a variety of pass rush moves. Brown has the better first step (although I think Michael Johnson has the best first step in the class) and has better closing speed, he also has slightly better estimated speed at the moment (although that could change when the actual workouts take place). I think Orakpo is the better prospect for a 4-3 defense while Brown might be the better prospect for a 3-4 defense. He's really starting to peak at the right time of the year, through game 5 I was slightly disappointed in his play.

Race for the Heisman
11-15-2008, 01:25 PM
Orakpo is stronger, more powerful, uses his hands better, plays the run better and has a variety of pass rush moves. Brown has the better first step (although I think Michael Johnson has the best first step in the class) and has better closing speed, he also has slightly better estimated speed at the moment (although that could change when the actual workouts take place). I think Orakpo is the better prospect for a 4-3 defense while Brown might be the better prospect for a 3-4 defense. He's really starting to peak at the right time of the year, through game 5 I was slightly disappointed in his play.

Exactly. Orakpo is more refined; Brown might be a little quicker. I still see Brown as more of a 4-3 guy, though.

Matthew Jones
11-15-2008, 01:39 PM
Exactly. Orakpo is more refined; Brown might be a little quicker. I still see Brown as more of a 4-3 guy, though.

I see Orakpo as more of a 4-3 DE and Brown as more of a 3-4. Brown stands out to me when I catch Florida State games but Orakpo was kind of in the background in the couple of Texas games I've seen recently. I'd prefer Orakpo for the Patriots based on size but that could change. Scott has Orakpo at 4.75 and Brown is a fairly consistent 4.6.

Race for the Heisman
11-15-2008, 02:59 PM
I see Orakpo as more of a 4-3 DE and Brown as more of a 3-4. Brown stands out to me when I catch Florida State games but Orakpo was kind of in the background in the couple of Texas games I've seen recently. I'd prefer Orakpo for the Patriots based on size but that could change. Scott has Orakpo at 4.75 and Brown is a fairly consistent 4.6.

I think competition could have a little to do with how much each stands out, but what I've seen of Brown makes me think he'd be better off in a 4-3 than in a 3-4. He may be more suited to a 3-4 than Orakpo, that doesn't necessarily make it his best fit.

LonghornsLegend
11-15-2008, 03:45 PM
Why does Brown run a 4.6 flat and Orakpo a 4.65, other then to make him look faster? Orakpo is estimated to run a 4.6 in the 40 as well, and he also missed 4 games last year with a knee injury...I really don't think comparing career stats is a good argument for why both are top 10 picks.

Matthew Jones
11-15-2008, 04:41 PM
Why does Brown run a 4.6 flat and Orakpo a 4.65, other then to make him look faster? Orakpo is estimated to run a 4.6 in the 40 as well, and he also missed 4 games last year with a knee injury...I really don't think comparing career stats is a good argument for why both are top 10 picks.

Orakpo is actually estimated to run a 4.75 according to Scott. Plus, on Rivals, Everette is at 4.50 and Orakpo 4.55.

Clayton89
11-15-2008, 04:51 PM
Both are going to be great prospects and Orakpo has been knicked since the Tech game so hes been quiet the last couple of games. I am really excited to see the show Orakpo is going to put on at the combine to lock up his top 15 selection. Its crazy to see how much hes changed since he was a freshmen the year the horns won the championship.

CantStopGregJones
11-15-2008, 05:50 PM
I think the deciding factor is run stopping ability and Brian Orakpo is very stout against the run. I've seen Everette Brown do good and then do awful against the run. If he can get the inconsistancy kink in his run stopping game worked out then I think it could be a great debate for many many years to come. I know he has the ability to stop the run too because I've seen him do it...its just the doing it on a regular basis he needs to improve.

foozball
11-15-2008, 05:55 PM
Orakpo is actually estimated to run a 4.75 according to Scott. Plus, on Rivals, Everette is at 4.50 and Orakpo 4.55.

i wouldnt put much stock in scott's 40 times. guys will almost always run faster than he has them.

BeerBaron
11-15-2008, 05:58 PM
i wouldnt put much stock in scott's 40 times. guys will almost always run faster than he has them.

ya, i think he's fairly conservative in handing them out. If you look at his receivers for instance, none are estimated below 4.4 while i guarantee at least a handful of them hit the 4.3's come combine time.

SenorGato
11-15-2008, 06:18 PM
Both are sick prospects, and IMO both could play in any system.

I think Brown is arguably the best 3-4 OLB prospect in this class. He's much more fluid as an athlete than Orakpo, but I still think Orakpo could and would succeed as a 3-4 OLB.

giantsfan
11-15-2008, 06:29 PM
More complete player yes, but better size no they're about equal there.

Orakpo looks more filled out whereas Everette still kinda lanky. As pass rushers they're definately comparable, but Rak is just much more of a true DE whereas Brown's a pass rusher right now. That said if Brown has the combine he should he'll be a top 15 pick ahead of guys like Selvie, Tyson Jackson and maybe even hardy.

Pokeys
11-15-2008, 07:22 PM
Hey I've been giving Westerman props in another thread hes a fine prospect that alot of people aren't even aware of. I love his inside move.

But staying on subject, Orakpo is a much more polished player. Don't put too much stock into stats bro, It's just college ball. Production is great, but it don't mean **** when translating into the next level.

RaiderNation
11-15-2008, 11:23 PM
Both will be top 15 picks. Both can make sick OLB's in a 3-4 too

BamaFalcon59
11-15-2008, 11:29 PM
Jason Worilds > Both

And I'm not even kidding.

ElectricEye
11-15-2008, 11:41 PM
I like Orakpo a lot more. Taking in stats and speed estimates doesn't account for Rak's absolutely freakish strength. They're probably on the same level athletically, in terms of speed and quickness...but Rak is just on another level as far as strength goes. He doesn't have Brown's first step, but he'll be on the same level as a pass rusher because of his strength and technique. He's a much better against the run as well.

Brown is a much more natural fit at 3-4 OLB though.

BuddyCHRIST
11-16-2008, 02:34 AM
Obviously I'm a big Everette Brown fan but he's not near the natural athlete people are making him out to be. He runs wide and does not look to have the 4.6 speed people are claiming (at least on the track) he's a motor guy more so than any FSU guy to come out recently. He's got some physical tools but I wouldn't be suprised if he doesnt test out nearly as well as some FSU guys had, but he has got an unreal motor and is a stand up character.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 10:42 AM
honestly, i dont think so. ive gotten two of browns games, and neither were awe inspiring performances. their defense pretty much got dominated vs bc. orakpo seems to have more speed off the edge and looks to be the physically stronger of the 2. he is much more stout holding the corner vs the run than brown. i dont hate brown, he may be worthy of a late rd 1 pick but i see great bust potential and a lot of disappearing and getting dominated in the games. i dont like that teams a re able to run at him. i just havent seen anything better about brown. i think he is a decent prospect with potential, but if i was playing the 3-4 and needed an olb it would be orakpo. hes played better in the games, and he seems to be the better athlete of the two. the offensive competition level theyre going against is the best in college football. i just like his strength off the edge and in the run game more than brown. their pass rush skills cvlose to even though id give the nod to orakpo based on the games ive seen of both.

BigJohn98
11-16-2008, 10:54 AM
Brown was timed at 4.58 in summer workouts.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 10:56 AM
in his games does he look like a 4.58 guy. do you think he will run a fatser combine 40 than jerrod mayo?

BigJohn98
11-16-2008, 11:00 AM
No, and no. I don't remember what Mayo ran, but I think Everette can post a high 4.5.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 11:06 AM
4.54 for mayo. s basically hes going to have to be as fast as him to be in the area youre projecting. its possible, but i just dont see it. you can generally add .1 to any outside combine workout. i think hes closer to 4.7 than 4.5 in all likelihood, which isnt bad, ut nothing freakish

BigJohn98
11-16-2008, 11:53 AM
Whoops. I meant to say low 4.5 range. I always get high and low 40 mixed up.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 11:54 AM
if hes not running faster than jarrod mayo hes not running in the low 4.5s becuase thats mayos range

Iamcanadian
11-17-2008, 02:02 AM
I think Everette Brown is definitely overlooked as a top pick. I think that he has the best first step of any DE is this class. I still like Orakpo more because I think he's a more complete player and better size. But as far as pure pass rushing ability, Everette Brown may be the best in this group of DE's.

I agree, he's being overlooked but as a junior, that is what happens till they get checked out at the combine. He's going to likely be a 1st rounder without any doubt but it is way too early to put him in Orakpo class just yet.

Larry121283
11-17-2008, 01:23 PM
No.

When will people learn about FSU DEs. Better off as linebackers, and rarely any of them get made into one.

Give me Orakpo, he is a poor man's Merriman, although, he is slowly getting into the range of overrated.

TACKLE
11-23-2008, 01:29 PM
Everette Brown vs. Maryland: 4.5 tfl's, 3.5 sacks

On the season: 33 tackles, 12.5 sacks (2nd in FBS), 20.5 TFL's (1st in FBS)

BamaFalcon59
11-23-2008, 01:38 PM
Where do you find sack numbers?

keylime_5
11-23-2008, 01:47 PM
No.

When will people learn about FSU DEs. Better off as linebackers, and rarely any of them get made into one.

Give me Orakpo, he is a poor man's Merriman, although, he is slowly getting into the range of overrated.

+1.

Orakpo I think is a solid top 15 guy who could go top 10, but he's not top 5 I don't think, at least not yet. He's a better athlete than Brown, he'll go first. But I think if he declares Everette Brown is a top 20 pick.

Solomon
11-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Where do you find sack numbers?

Go here, then scroll down to pass sacks:
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2008&div=IA&site=org

You should get here:
http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2008&div=IA&rpt=IA_playerpasssacks&site=org

I'm going back to watch NFL now.

T-RICH49
11-23-2008, 03:28 PM
I'll gladly take either one of them

bored of education
11-23-2008, 04:03 PM
I'll gladly take either one of them

As would I :D

T-RICH49
11-23-2008, 04:34 PM
As would I :D

check that I'll take BOTH of them :D

SenorGato
11-23-2008, 10:29 PM
Heres how I'm starting to look at it:

Brown - More loose as an athlete. Less injury history. Would excel in a 3-4 as an OLB or a DE in a Tampa 2. Would/Could be a good 4-3 pass rushing DE in the mold of Osi or Cole if coached up and he packs on weight. He'll definitely get knocked for his frame, but as a linebacker this guy could be a good one. Definitely strikes me as a "student of the game" type and he does alot of anti-smoking stuff if you look him up on the Youtubez. Something tells me he's going to keep rising because productive, athletic, high character DE's tend to rank high on team's wish lists.

Orakpo - Could fit in any system, but would struggle early in a 3-4. Injury history can say a couple things about his flexibility and ability to play in space more than his long term durability. Combine season will tell alot about Orakpo. He's got top 15 talent, but he came into this season more as a "really interesting, highly talented guy with question marks", and his early rise is something to be ignored until we know more. He's kind of this year's Gholston.

Yea, I like Brown more now...but I really hope he's drafted by a good 3-4 team...as in not the Browns...no offense Browns fans I just don't like whatever Crennel thinks he's been doing with his LBers...though it was nice of him to play Williams and nice of Wimbley to get a sack for once today.

Geo
11-24-2008, 11:35 AM
I get the comparison of Brown to Wimbley, both guys have a dip move but not very much else in the way of pass rush repertoire. Brown is raw and needs some further/additional coaching in that area.

But on sheer motor, quickness, and desire to the quarterback, I can't help but dig Brown a great deal. I'd love to see the Colts draft him to eventually replace Raheem Brock as the LDE who slides inside on pass rushing downs.

regoob2
11-24-2008, 12:24 PM
I get the comparison of Brown to Wimbley, both guys have a dip move but not very much else in the way of pass rush repertoire. Brown is raw and needs some further/additional coaching in that area.

But on sheer motor, quickness, and desire to the quarterback, I can't help but dig Brown a great deal. I'd love to see the Colts draft him to eventually replace Raheem Brock as the LDE who slides inside on pass rushing downs.
He has a good inside spin move ala Freeney.

BuddyCHRIST
11-24-2008, 12:59 PM
I think Everette's best fit would be as an OLB in a 3-4. He could play in the Tampa 2, but his height would be worrysome. He might be listed at 6'4" but he's 6'2" at best.

nobodyinparticular
01-06-2009, 12:31 AM
I think Everette's best fit would be as an OLB in a 3-4. He could play in the Tampa 2, but his height would be worrysome. He might be listed at 6'4" but he's 6'2" at best.

Derrick Burgess is 6'2" and he has done alright for himself until he's been injured the last couple years.

Just wanted to bring this one back and liven the debate up again.

Everette Brown vs. Brian Orakpo vs. Greg Hardy

Who do you take? Why?

Personally, I'm worried about Orakpo. Maybe that's just because of the Gholston comparisons (who I also was worried about coming into the NFL and relieved when the Raiders didn't draft him).

Bruce Banner
01-06-2009, 12:32 AM
clint sintim

nobodyinparticular
01-06-2009, 12:33 AM
clint sintim

In a 4-3 defense? At DE?

Bruce Banner
01-06-2009, 12:36 AM
In a 4-3 defense? At DE?

idk, never seen him play

but he looks like a beast!

http://www.techsideline.com/football/2007/pics/uva_sintim2007_01.jpg

Babylon
01-06-2009, 12:38 AM
I like Orakpo as a DE in a 4-3. I dont want him out in pass coverage. Everett Brown has looked less than super in the games i've seen of him. The game against BC he was dwarfed by Mark Herzlich, who would be my top 3-4 OLB.

Monomach
01-06-2009, 12:46 AM
lolstats

This thread started off so funny.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 12:47 AM
I think Rak's gotta be the best prospect of the bunch but I'd rather have Hardy on the Gmen because I think Hardy could be a rich man's Osi with our staff/roster helping develop him.

Hardy's just got all the pieces to being a dominant DE, Rak's going to be a beast also but I like Hardy a little more as a pass rusher, he doesn't have rak's pure power, but he's a little quicker and seems to do a better job disengaging from blockers to take down the QB.

wonderbredd24
01-06-2009, 08:34 AM
From everything I have seen, Orakpo has one move, his outside speed rush, and that's it. Granted, he's good at it and he's extremely physical gift, but just that one move.

Watching the Fiesta Bowl, I honestly was more impressed with Thaddeus Gibson's array of moves

I've seen Everette Brown do more in terms of pass rushing techniques down at Florida State and I think he has better instincts rushing the QB. I don't understand why people think Orakpo is better... maybe it's because Everette Brown has no neck.

SenorGato
01-06-2009, 11:03 AM
From everything I have seen, Orakpo has one move, his outside speed rush, and that's it. Granted, he's good at it and he's extremely physical gift, but just that one move.

Watching the Fiesta Bowl, I honestly was more impressed with Thaddeus Gibson's array of moves

I've seen Everette Brown do more in terms of pass rushing techniques down at Florida State and I think he has better instincts rushing the QB. I don't understand why people think Orakpo is better... maybe it's because Everette Brown has no neck.

Orakpo reminds me of Gholston last year, but with a larger fan base.

While alot of people knew about Orakpo before that ESPN article, he gained a ton more after he was labeled one of college football's top workout warriors.

Brown IMO is the better athlete, the better pure pass rusher, and my favorite player in this draft to move to DE/OLB.

I also like Greg Hardy better than Orakpo. I think Hardy would make a pretty sick DE/OLB if his toe is a non-issue too.

Number 10
01-06-2009, 11:07 AM
I don't understand the love for Brown on this site. He screams of another Wimbley to me. Except Wimbley was a little bit bigger.

SenorGato
01-06-2009, 11:13 AM
I don't understand the love for Brown on this site. He screams of another Wimbley to me. Except Wimbley was a little bit bigger.

Brown >>>>>> Wimbley

I think Wimbley started all of 12 games for FSU while he was there. Plus, Brown's sophomore year was almost as good as Wimbley's senior year. Brown's year this year might even blow out Wimbley's career at FSU. Thats how good Brown was this year.

I don't think any pass rusher did more to raise his stock this season through is play.

Number 10
01-06-2009, 11:27 AM
Brown >>>>>> Wimbley

I think Wimbley started all of 12 games for FSU while he was there. Plus, Brown's sophomore year was almost as good as Wimbley's senior year. Brown's year this year might even blow out Wimbley's career at FSU. Thats how good Brown was this year.

I don't think any pass rusher did more to raise his stock this season through is play.

But, like Maybin at Penn State, he has so much bulk to add on. He looks small at the college level and I can't see him making an impact right away. I know that is not the point of the draft put with the direction the contracts are going, teams are looking for immediate impact more and more these days. Going back for another year, putting on 10-15 pounds of good weight, and at least matching this kind of production and Brown could be THE guy next year. Not a potential top 20 pick.

keylime_5
01-06-2009, 11:31 AM
I like Orakpo better as a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE than Brown, but just slightly. Orakpo's athleticism is so freaky, he mustn't have an ounce of fat on him and he is so fluid and quick for being so strong, and his size is ideal for a 3-4 ROLB.

LonghornsLegend
01-06-2009, 11:32 AM
But, like Maybin at Penn State, he has so much bulk to add on. He looks small at the college level and I can't see him making an impact right away. I know that is not the point of the draft put with the direction the contracts are going, teams are looking for immediate impact more and more these days. Going back for another year, putting on 10-15 pounds of good weight, and at least matching this kind of production and Brown could be THE guy next year. Not a potential top 20 pick.

Brown's more then likely a 3-4 end at the next level, he's the exact same frame as Anthony Spencer, he'll be fine if he's in a position to rush the passer at the next level, but I really think he ends up in a 3-4 anyway.

SenorGato
01-06-2009, 11:35 AM
I like Orakpo better as a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE than Brown, but just slightly. Orakpo's athleticism is so freaky, he mustn't have an ounce of fat on him and he is so fluid and quick for being so strong, and his size is ideal for a 3-4 ROLB.

http://www.rivals.com/video.asp?section=football&pkey=&vidtype=publisher&vidid=5502

Brown is no push over.

This is going to be a fun offseason with these 2.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 11:57 AM
Brown will need time to develop, but he's a freak athlete. His first step is so incredibly fast. And his bullrush is underrated. I think since the 3-4 really is a transition and your first year in the system is a learning process anyway, throwing him in that system while he packs on muscle and learns more moves will be fine.

I think he has all the potential in the world. But he needs good coaching to realize it.

Throw 10 lbs on the guy, and teach him some moves, and he'll be a beast. but like i said, he needs a good coaching staff. with the wrong coaching, we're looking at another Kamerion Wimbley.

Brooder
01-06-2009, 12:02 PM
I have been studying Brown more and more and in my new mock draft I will have him ahead of Orakpo and here is why.

Orakpo came out of high school one year earlier than Brown and both red-shirted their first years. Brown has the young advantage being only a junior while Orakpo a senior. Here are their measurements out of high school:

Orakpo: 6'3" 218 4.56
Brown: 6'2" 230 4.55

Now they both have grown to 6'4" with Orakpo currently at 260 and Brown at 250. I am concerned that Orakpo is done bulking and will run a lower 40 time at the combines compared to high school which is expected because he gained weight. That is one of the knocks on Orakpo, he's not really fastand wasn't really a factor in last nights game. Brown is be a better pro in the NFL in my opinion. The more I think of it, orakpo could become a bust and become a back-up the best. Maybe a 3rd down pass rusher?

Orakpo: http://texas.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=8&c=1&nid=679140
Brown: http://floridastate.scout.com/a.z?s=16&p=8&c=1&nid=1176517

wonderbredd24
01-06-2009, 12:06 PM
I don't understand the love for Brown on this site. He screams of another Wimbley to me. Except Wimbley was a little bit bigger.

About the only thing Brown and Wimbley have in common is they played at FSU.

If anything, Orakpo resembles Wimbley more than Brown, but Orakpo is far more physically gifted and has more experience. Wimbley just speed rushes outside and tries to dip his shoulder to get around tackles. Brown is more sophisticated as a rusher than that

keylime_5
01-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Both were DE/OLB tweeners who went to Florida State, but Brown had a more productive career and already has more pass rushing moves in his arsenal. To be fair to Kamerion though, the Browns didn't blitz him as much as you usually would a 3-4 OLB and the conservative system hurt his potential after his 11 sack rookie season. If Wimbley played for Pittsburgh I think he'd have a bunch of sacks still.

wonderbredd24
01-06-2009, 12:21 PM
Both were DE/OLB tweeners who went to Florida State, but Brown had a more productive career and already has more pass rushing moves in his arsenal. To be fair to Kamerion though, the Browns didn't blitz him as much as you usually would a 3-4 OLB and the conservative system hurt his potential after his 11 sack rookie season. If Wimbley played for Pittsburgh I think he'd have a bunch of sacks still.

Wimbley's main problem is his lack of development, whether it be his fault, the coaches, or both. He has not developed any other pass rush moves.

I think Wimbley is salvageable, but I don't think he's going to be a premier pass rusher. I think he would definitely benefit from having someone good opposite him.

Gchu83
01-06-2009, 12:24 PM
I have been studying Brown more and more and in my new mock draft I will have him ahead of Orakpo and here is why.

Orakpo came out of high school one year earlier than Brown and both red-shirted their first years. Brown has the young advantage being only a junior while Orakpo a senior. Here are their measurements out of high school:

Orakpo: 6'3" 218 4.56
Brown: 6'2" 230 4.55

Now they both have grown to 6'4" with Orakpo currently at 260 and Brown at 250. I am concerned that Orakpo is done bulking and will run a lower 40 time at the combines compared to high school which is expected because he gained weight. That is one of the knocks on Orakpo, he's not really fastand wasn't really a factor in last nights game. Brown is be a better pro in the NFL in my opinion. The more I think of it, orakpo could become a bust and become a back-up the best. Maybe a 3rd down pass rusher?

Orakpo: http://texas.scout.com/a.z?s=110&p=8&c=1&nid=679140
Brown: http://floridastate.scout.com/a.z?s=16&p=8&c=1&nid=1176517

So you're basing your comparisons on what their measurements were out of high school? Orakpo has supposedly ran a 4.6 forty with his new bulk and if he runs that at the combine, I don't think you can say speed is one of the knocks on him.

Brooder
01-06-2009, 12:26 PM
So you're basing your comparisons on what their measurements were out of high school? Orakpo has supposedly ran a 4.6 forty with his new bulk and if he runs that at the combine, I don't think you can say speed is one of the knocks on him.

Orakpo will run a 4.7 at best.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 12:31 PM
Orakpo will run a 4.7 at best.

I love people who can see the future, can you tell me when my flight tomorrow is going to land? I'd like to give my buddy who's picking me up a precise time to meet me, if you can give me the seconds also that'd be great.

Brooder
01-06-2009, 12:34 PM
I love people who can see the future, can you tell me when my flight tomorrow is going to land? I'd like to give my buddy who's picking me up a precise time to meet me, if you can give me the seconds also that'd be great.

I am basing the fact he will run at best a 4.7 from his high school numbers. As a senior, he was at 218 and ran a 4.56. He has bulked up now to 260 and I think it will severely affect his 40 time. IMHO, he runs in the 4.7-4.8 range. When all said and done I think he falls bottom first round and might even fall to second.

CC.SD
01-06-2009, 12:35 PM
I'd be a lot more comfortable with Orakpo as a 3-4 OLB if he had shown some more fluidity. I'm just not sure it's there, at least not enough to draft him high as an OLB (Vernon Gholston syndrome). I like him a lot as a 4-3 project though.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 12:41 PM
I am basing the fact he will run at best a 4.7 from his high school numbers. As a senior, he was at 218 and ran a 4.56. He has bulked up now to 260 and I think it will severely affect his 40 time. IMHO, he runs in the 4.7-4.8 range. When all said and done I think he falls bottom first round and might even fall to second.

there's no ******* way he falls out of the top 20 without killing more people than Mickey and Mallory Knox. Even if he runs a 4.8 he's still a top 20 pick as a DE.

wonderbredd24
01-06-2009, 12:49 PM
He's a defensive end/outside linebacker. His 40 time is irrelevant to his position. Teams are more focused on the drills that will reflect his explosiveness and acceleration like the 10, 20, and cone drills

bitonti
01-06-2009, 01:09 PM
this is a great thread, put a gun to my head and force me to choose the pedigree is better at florida state than at texas. Everette Brown over Orakpo, just barely.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 01:11 PM
this is a great thread, put a gun to my head and force me to choose the pedigree is better at florida state than at texas. Everette Brown over Orakpo, just barely.

What? Name a single FSU DE who's been good at that spot in the NFL. I understand someone picking Brown over Rak, although I disagree, but doing it because of pedigree, the pedigree at FSU is that DE's are always busts.

bitonti
01-06-2009, 01:12 PM
What? Name a single FSU DE who's been good at that spot in the NFL. I understand someone picking Brown over Rak, although I disagree, but doing it because of pedigree, the pedigree at FSU is that DE's are always busts.

Kamerion Wimbley

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 01:14 PM
Kamerion Wimbley

Has one move and plays linebacker. I'm still waiting.

bitonti
01-06-2009, 01:17 PM
Darnell Dockett was a college DE
Peter Boulware

by the way If we are talking 4-3 then yeah maybe Orakpo over Brown but Brown could be nasty as a stand up OLB, JMO

Gchu83
01-06-2009, 01:19 PM
I am basing the fact he will run at best a 4.7 from his high school numbers. As a senior, he was at 218 and ran a 4.56. He has bulked up now to 260 and I think it will severely affect his 40 time. IMHO, he runs in the 4.7-4.8 range. When all said and done I think he falls bottom first round and might even fall to second.

So I guess no college football player can maintain speed or get faster after he graduates from h.s. since they all bulk up once in college. Also, Rak could run a 4.7-4.8 and still go in the first half of round one.

And for the record, projecting numbers off of what they did 4-5 years ago in h.s. is pretty ********.

DiG
01-06-2009, 01:39 PM
im not sure either will be the best DE in the draft. I think that Maybin is faster, quicker, more agile, has more moves, and is more consistently in the backfield than either Brown or Orakpo. As a 3-4 OLB Maybin is perfect but in the case he would be played as a 4-3 DE he needs to probably add a good 10-15 lbs which I would not put out of the realm of possibility.

For me personally, right now:

Maybin - Top 10
Orakpo - Top 15
Brown - Top 25

LonghornsLegend
01-06-2009, 01:44 PM
I am basing the fact he will run at best a 4.7 from his high school numbers. As a senior, he was at 218 and ran a 4.56. He has bulked up now to 260 and I think it will severely affect his 40 time. IMHO, he runs in the 4.7-4.8 range. When all said and done I think he falls bottom first round and might even fall to second.

You have no clue what your talking about...The fact that you said your basing his 40 time on HS numbers makes you not worth responding to.




I'd be a lot more comfortable with Orakpo as a 3-4 OLB if he had shown some more fluidity. I'm just not sure it's there, at least not enough to draft him high as an OLB (Vernon Gholston syndrome). I like him a lot as a 4-3 project though.


I think he's tailor made for a pass rushing 4-3 end ie John Abraham, I don't think somebody is going to want to mess with him in a 3-4 at all at this point...He's strong enough to hold his own in the running game.

katnip
01-06-2009, 01:55 PM
I like Orakpo, just saw him in the fiesta bowl

BigJohn98
01-06-2009, 02:39 PM
Darnell Dockett was a college DE
Peter Boulware

by the way If we are talking 4-3 then yeah maybe Orakpo over Brown but Brown could be nasty as a stand up OLB, JMO

Darnell Dockett was a DT.

Menardo75
01-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Darnell Dockett was a DT.

He was a college D end.

Babylon
01-06-2009, 03:50 PM
I love people who can see the future, can you tell me when my flight tomorrow is going to land? I'd like to give my buddy who's picking me up a precise time to meet me, if you can give me the seconds also that'd be great.

Better still give me the winner of tomorrow's daily double at Santa Anita.

NIPS
01-06-2009, 04:02 PM
What? Name a single FSU DE who's been good at that spot in the NFL. I understand someone picking Brown over Rak, although I disagree, but doing it because of pedigree, the pedigree at FSU is that DE's are always busts.

They said the same thing about Penn State RB's till Larry Johnson came along

Really, how dense does one have to be to believe that things never change?

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 04:10 PM
Kamerion Wimbley

Wimbley has been a bust in the NFL so far.

PACKmanN
01-06-2009, 04:14 PM
What? Name a single FSU DE who's been good at that spot in the NFL. I understand someone picking Brown over Rak, although I disagree, but doing it because of pedigree, the pedigree at FSU is that DE's are always busts.

Jamal Reynolds ;)

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Darnell Dockett was a college DE
Peter Boulware

by the way If we are talking 4-3 then yeah maybe Orakpo over Brown but Brown could be nasty as a stand up OLB, JMO

Dockett was a DE? I thought he played DT, in that case you have me there.

Michael Boulware's been the only other good FSU DE and he played LB also.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 04:22 PM
They said the same thing about Penn State RB's till Larry Johnson came along

Really, how dense does one have to be to believe that things never change?

I guess dense enough to believe Mario henderson is the reason teh raiders won't select a OT.

Just an fyi but you might wanna consider reading the discussion before coming in with your dumbass posts. Because if you had you'd know that the guy said he'd rather pick Brown over Rak because of FSU's pedigree for DEs, so please continue being an ignoramus and posting without knowing wtf is being discussed.

BigJohn98
01-06-2009, 05:00 PM
Dockett was a DE? I thought he played DT, in that case you have me there.

Michael Boulware's been the only other good FSU DE and he played LB also.

Dockett was a defensive tackle at FSU. I don't know why people are calling him a defensive end.

Menardo75
01-06-2009, 05:08 PM
I think Orakpo is a better all around player than Brown today.

BuddyCHRIST
01-06-2009, 05:45 PM
Dockett was a defensive tackle at FSU. I don't know why people are calling him a defensive end.

He's right, Dockett was definitely a DT at FSU. In the line of a lot of great FSU DT's too.

wonderbredd24
01-06-2009, 05:51 PM
Wimbley has been a bust in the NFL so far.

Not quite... he's had 20 sacks in 3 seasons, granted 11 as a rookie, but that's not terrible.

He's not developed like we hoped, but I don't think he's a bust

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 06:04 PM
Not quite... he's had 20 sacks in 3 seasons, granted 11 as a rookie, but that's not terrible.

He's not developed like we hoped, but I don't think he's a bust

he has this year to show me something. i was high on the guy and thought he could turn into something special, but i think he's been figured out.

once teams learned how to handle his speed rush he hasn't done jack since. and he's not strong enough to bullrush. he really needs to step it up, bc he's been below average the past 2 years.

nobodyinparticular
01-06-2009, 06:32 PM
Dockett was a DE? I thought he played DT, in that case you have me there.

Michael Boulware's been the only other good FSU DE and he played LB also.

I was pretty sure Michael was the LB-turned-SS. Peter Boulware was the DE-turned-LB who played for the Ravens.

Off the top of my head...

Larry
01-06-2009, 07:37 PM
Orakpo would be a liability in coverage at 3-4 OLB. Keep him in the 4-3 and just let him rush the QB.

Paranoidmoonduck
01-06-2009, 07:40 PM
We know that Orakpo has raw strength, but I like what I've seen from Brown playing with his hand in the dirt. He had a monster game against Maryland, so I might just be influenced by his most recent performance, but I'm tempted to move him above Orakpo.

I think both slot as top 10 guys right now (if not in the draft, then in my rankings).

Rob S
01-06-2009, 07:42 PM
Hardy is my favorite DE in this draft

keylime_5
01-06-2009, 08:43 PM
Orakpo would be a liability in coverage at 3-4 OLB. Keep him in the 4-3 and just let him rush the QB.

Not really. 3-4 OLBs pretty much blitz most plays and when they don't they don't get as difficult of coverage that DBs and ILBs get. As long as the guy is athletic and buys into the scheme he'll work in that department. The trouble guys usually have in the transition is if they're good enough to consistently rush the passer, disrupt plays and chase down runningbacks.

Babylon
01-06-2009, 08:54 PM
Orakpo would be a liability in coverage at 3-4 OLB. Keep him in the 4-3 and just let him rush the QB.

He's played with his hand on the ground whenever i've seen him so i would keep him as a 4-3 end also. I wouldnt think he would be much in pass coverage for a 3-4 OLB but i guess you never know.

I thought he played pretty well against OSU, he gave Boone a little trouble with his outside rush but was somewhat susceptible in the running game.

Paranoidmoonduck
01-06-2009, 09:08 PM
Not really. 3-4 OLBs pretty much blitz most plays and when they don't they don't get as difficult of coverage that DBs and ILBs get.

While covering the flats isn't exactly the most complex coverage around, I'd argue that it can be one of the more difficult assignments, especially if your 3-4 defense is running man coverage on the outside.

wonderbredd24
01-06-2009, 10:41 PM
While covering the flats isn't exactly the most complex coverage around, I'd argue that it can be one of the more difficult assignments, especially if your 3-4 defense is running man coverage on the outside.

How much do guys like Merriman and Ware drop back in coverage? If they are an elite pass rusher, they are going to be rushing the QB.

Suggs, on the other hand, is a pretty complete football player and makes an impact in coverage

Paranoidmoonduck
01-06-2009, 10:54 PM
How much do guys like Merriman and Ware drop back in coverage? If they are an elite pass rusher, they are going to be rushing the QB.

Suggs, on the other hand, is a pretty complete football player and makes an impact in coverage

Well, that San Diego defense is a bit interesting in the way they protect Merriman. Then again, when your 3-4 WILL is as good as he is at getting to the passer, it's easy to understand why they do what they do. And Ware is actually pretty fluid in the pass protection he's asked to do, although it looked to me like Dallas asked him to do less this year.

I like Brown and Orakpo, but I don't think either are pass rushers on the level of Merriman, Ware, or Suggs. Out of the right 3-4, Brown could put up some 15+ sack seasons, but I don't think either are truly elite in the way we understand it. And while they might be sent after the passer more often than not, having a guy who simply can't manage to keep aware of or manage to disrupt screens and curls on his side is a huge liability that will be exploited (this is why I was down on Gholston as a 3-4 OLB last April).

jCut
01-06-2009, 10:55 PM
Hardy is my favorite DE in this draft

Me too. I hope he declares.

TACKLE
01-06-2009, 11:13 PM
Everette Brown is the best pass rusher in the draft period. He is stupid fast off the ball with a great first step and has an exceptional motor. Brown is very fast in pursuit and can hunt QB's down from behind. He is athletic enough to turn the corner with a pure speed rush but has also shown surprising strength and versatilty (he sometimes lilnes up as a DT ala Justin Tuck). Plus he has the most devastating spin move that I have seen at the college level. He also has a solid repetoire of other moves. I believe that Brown could be an elite pass rusher in the NFL as an OLB in a 3-4.


Watch
T6oJYor1SsA

giantsfan
01-07-2009, 03:15 PM
Here's my personnal rankings of them as prospects.

In a 4-3:
Brian Orakpo
Greg Hardy (only due to the toe and not wanting to sit out when his coach told him to rest his injury)
Everette Brown

In a 4-3
Everette Brown
Rak
Greg Hardy

Race for the Heisman
01-07-2009, 04:09 PM
Here's my personnal rankings of them as prospects.

In a 4-3:
Brian Orakpo
Greg Hardy (only due to the toe and not wanting to sit out when his coach told him to rest his injury)
Everette Brown

In a 4-3
Everette Brown
Rak
Greg Hardy

I'm assuming the second list is 3-4?

Anyway, Everette Brown is my guy. I'm not saying Orakpo is good, but I'd rather take Brown around 15 than Orakpo around 5.

OneToughGame
01-07-2009, 04:23 PM
Everette Brown is the best pass rusher in the draft period. He is stupid fast off the ball with a great first step and has an exceptional motor. Brown is very fast in pursuit and can hunt QB's down from behind. He is athletic enough to turn the corner with a pure speed rush but has also shown surprising strength and versatilty (he sometimes lilnes up as a DT ala Justin Tuck). Plus he has the most devastating spin move that I have seen at the college level. He also has a solid repetoire of other moves. I believe that Brown could be an elite pass rusher in the NFL as an OLB in a 3-4.


Watch
T6oJYor1SsA

He was just insane in that game.

Texas Homer
01-07-2009, 07:33 PM
I like Brown a lot. He's faster than Orakpo, but I think Orakpo is a lot stronger than Brown. The thing that hurts Orakpo a little is that he has been injured a couple of times and he is slightly undersized. I think Orakpo is a more polished Beast, but Brown has more potential. Does that make sense?

I think both are legit top 20 picks, but I'd take Orakpo over Brown for obvious reasons.

Larry121283
01-07-2009, 08:39 PM
Darnell Dockett was a college DE
Peter Boulware

by the way If we are talking 4-3 then yeah maybe Orakpo over Brown but Brown could be nasty as a stand up OLB, JMO
No.

Darnell Dockett was a three year starter at defensive tackle at Florida State.

Peter Boulware was an outside linebacker in the pros...moved from defensive end.

Best end was probably Orpheus Roye, but he was a defensive tackle at FSU.

Maybe Greg Spires was the best DE to stay at DE from FSU.

bitonti
01-08-2009, 08:43 AM
Best end was probably Orpheus Roye, but he was a defensive tackle at FSU.

Maybe Greg Spires was the best DE to stay at DE from FSU.


hey that's great, meanwhile who's the best Texas DE ever Tony Brackens? Cory Redding? Brian Robison?

nitpick all you want Florida State DE is a better pedigree than Texas DE any way you want to look at it.

Larry121283
01-08-2009, 10:55 AM
I'm pretty certain Texas' Defensive Ends trump Florida State DEs anyday of the week and twice on Sundays...literally.

Tim Crowder
Brian Robison
Cory Redding
Tony Brackens

>

Andre Wadsworth
Jamal Reynolds
Reinard Wilson
Chauncey Davis
Eric Moore
Alonzo Jackson
Tony Bryant
Greg Spires
Jules Pittman
Derrick Alexander

I could go on...

FSU DEs are terrible, and while sure...I may miss out on Everette Brown (although, he has a great chance at becoming the next on this list if he isn't moved to linebacker)...I'm perfectly fine with that...as I'll avoid taking Jamal Reynolds and Reinard Wilson...

marshfield
01-08-2009, 11:04 AM
Brown needs to add weight if he stays at DE. Even in the NFL "speed" rushers all weigh over 260lbs, most in high 260's and in the 270's. I think he has bust written all over him if he stays as a DE. He won't go anywhere near the DT as a pro, the Justin Tuck comparison is stupid. Tuck has 2 inches and 25+ pounds on him. He could be like Boulware and move to OLB and have a fine career, but anybody who thinks he's going to be an NFL DE is fooling themselves.

keylime_5
01-08-2009, 11:09 AM
Peter Boulware didn't work out too bad. Not many FSU DEs on that list were taken in the top 15 picks either.

wonderbredd24
01-08-2009, 11:34 AM
I dunno if Scott has looked through this thread, but your mock draft (which granted is from the middle of December), has Brian Orakpo taken 10th, Michael Johnson at 17, and Everette Brown at 24 with the caveat that Greg Hardy could go there instead.

With Brown declared now, where do you have these guys ranked now?

Do you still feel Everette Brown is going in the backhalf of the first round?

Larry121283
01-08-2009, 12:15 PM
Peter Boulware didn't work out too bad. Not many FSU DEs on that list were taken in the top 15 picks either.
Moved to Linebacker in the pros. Same with Wimbley...which is why they both weren't listen.

Dark Knight01
01-08-2009, 12:18 PM
I think Orakpo looks to be more of a 4-3, and Brown more of a 3-4.

I think Brown weighs less than Orakpo and I expect Orakpo to gain at least another 10 pounds in the next 3 years. He works out hard and I think he is more refined than Brown. Tough to see Brown playing down in a 4-3 all day long with him weighing 250. Orakpo goes about 265.

DiG
01-08-2009, 12:23 PM
If we are talking 3-4 OLB then Maybin to me trumps both Brown and Orakpo. To say that Brown is hands down the best pure pass rusher in the draft is absurd. Maybin is incredibly explosive and although hes only listed at 245 he is strong as crap. Maybin reminds me a lot of Robert Mathis who has succeeded quite well in a 4-3. I actually think Maybin has the frame to easily add another 10 lbs and play at 255 range. He's not completely polished but athletically and potential wise I think hes ahead of both Brown and Rak at this point.

keylime_5
01-08-2009, 12:26 PM
Moved to Linebacker in the pros. Same with Wimbley...which is why they both weren't listen.

I expect Brown to be moved to LB too, depending on who takes him. OLB in a 3-4 isn't that much different than 4-3 DE.

SenorGato
01-08-2009, 01:54 PM
The way I look at FSU, their best DT's usually make very good 3-4 DE's (Dockett and Roye) and their best DE's would do better as LBers.

HorusKing
01-08-2009, 02:21 PM
I think that Orakpo is a more complete player and he is more stout at the point of attack against the run.

wonderbredd24
01-08-2009, 02:34 PM
I think that Orakpo is a more complete player and he is more stout at the point of attack against the run.

It seemed to me that Brown has more polish, but Orakpo has a higher ceiling at the next level

keylime_5
01-08-2009, 02:46 PM
The one question I have is that is Brian Orakpo or Everette Brown good enough to make a Vernon Gholston-like rise and go as high as # 5 or # 6 overall? I sort of have my doubts that they will, but I also think that the Cleveland Browns' top need going into the draft will be a pass rushing OLB. I'm kind of going back and forth on whether or not Orakpo will be better in a 3-4 than Brown, the more film analysis and highlights I watch of him the more I think Brown > Orakpo in general, but it's very close and I'm undecided.

wonderbredd24
01-08-2009, 02:51 PM
The one question I have is that is Brian Orakpo or Everette Brown good enough to make a Vernon Gholston-like rise and go as high as # 5 or # 6 overall? I sort of have my doubts that they will, but I also think that the Cleveland Browns' top need going into the draft will be a pass rushing OLB. I'm kind of going back and forth on whether or not Orakpo will be better in a 3-4 than Brown, the more film analysis and highlights I watch of him the more I think Brown > Orakpo in general, but it's very close and I'm undecided.

It is their top need, but short of trading down, I don't think they will end up going that route.

If he's there, take Aaron Curry.

If not, trade down, acquire more picks and draft Everette Brown.

Paranoidmoonduck
01-08-2009, 03:06 PM
The one question I have is that is Brian Orakpo or Everette Brown good enough to make a Vernon Gholston-like rise and go as high as # 5 or # 6 overall? I sort of have my doubts that they will, but I also think that the Cleveland Browns' top need going into the draft will be a pass rushing OLB. I'm kind of going back and forth on whether or not Orakpo will be better in a 3-4 than Brown, the more film analysis and highlights I watch of him the more I think Brown > Orakpo in general, but it's very close and I'm undecided.

Personally, I think that both Orakpo and Brown are better prospects than Gholston, so I wouldn't have an qualms about taking them at the #5 spot. I have some concerns about both as 4-3 defensive ends, but Orakpo has enough strength that if he learns to get consistent leverage, I think he could definitely manage with his hand in the ground. Brown I'm less sure about, but we know that Cleveland is going to keep the 3-4, and I would definitely rate Brown as the top 3-4 OLB option. That said, if Maybin comes out, it puts a different slant on the situation, but I don't expect it.

keylime_5
01-08-2009, 03:48 PM
It is their top need, but short of trading down, I don't think they will end up going that route.

If he's there, take Aaron Curry.

If not, trade down, acquire more picks and draft Everette Brown.

but I think there is a good shot at us signing Crowder, Scott, or some ILB considering how good of a FA ILB class we'll have, and if that happens then ILB won't be a need anymore. If they don't take an OLB at 5 I think Jenkins or Wells become the likely other candidates

bitonti
01-08-2009, 03:54 PM
I'm pretty certain Texas' Defensive Ends trump Florida State DEs anyday of the week and twice on Sundays...literally.

Tim Crowder
Brian Robison
Cory Redding
Tony Brackens

>

Andre Wadsworth
Jamal Reynolds
Reinard Wilson
Chauncey Davis
Eric Moore
Alonzo Jackson
Tony Bryant
Greg Spires
Jules Pittman
Derrick Alexander

I could go on...

FSU DEs are terrible, and while sure...I may miss out on Everette Brown (although, he has a great chance at becoming the next on this list if he isn't moved to linebacker)...I'm perfectly fine with that...as I'll avoid taking Jamal Reynolds and Reinard Wilson...


1) there are some good players on that list. Wadsworth was a beast until the injuries. Greg Spires has a ring. Derrick Alexander was a good player. No Peter Boulware? No Kam Wimbley?

2) the fact there were 10 FSU DE thought to be good enough to be drafted high and only 4 Texas DE thought to be good enough to be drafted high proves it's a better pedigree - and like they say on reading rainbow you don't have to take my word for it... the GMs speak with their draft picks.

Larry121283
01-08-2009, 04:20 PM
The GMs speak with how overrated the FSU players are...If there are ten players from one school and all of them are busts or unworthy of their draft spot at their respective positions and another school has four taken, and all of them worthy of their draft spot or better...which one really has the better pedigree? I'm going with the 4-for-4.

Boulware and Kam aren't listed because they were moved to linebacker...the argument is FSU D-Ends staying at D-Ends. Reinard is close to not being included, but he was moved back and forth from LB and DE (actually had his best season as a LB)

Good players on the list? There aren't any good players.

A few role player types, like Alexander, Bryant and Spires. None better than Say Brackens or Redding.

Wadsworth was a beast? When?

I'll go on record saying that I think this guy will bust, sans him getting drafted to a premium situation for his skill set like Baltimore or Pittsburgh...

wonderbredd24
01-08-2009, 04:58 PM
but I think there is a good shot at us signing Crowder, Scott, or some ILB considering how good of a FA ILB class we'll have, and if that happens then ILB won't be a need anymore. If they don't take an OLB at 5 I think Jenkins or Wells become the likely other candidates

I don't like the idea of picking Wells at 5

I can live with Jenkins, but I'd prefer they trade down in that scenario.