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View Full Version : LeSean McCoy or Shonn Greene


JaxJag_1
11-15-2008, 06:54 PM
I know both are very different in their running styles, but who do you like more in the NFL?

McCoy reminds me of LaDainian Tomlinson lite

Shonn Greene reminds me of Marshawn Lynch/Michael Turner

illmatic74
11-15-2008, 06:55 PM
LeSean McCoy

P-L
11-15-2008, 07:00 PM
I'll have to think about that. Shady is a much bigger threat with the ball in his hands, but he doesn't run between the tackles consistently enough for me.

illmatic74
11-15-2008, 07:01 PM
I'll have to think about that. Shady is a much bigger threat with the ball in his hands, but he doesn't run between the tackles consistently enough for me.But he is quicker, more explosive and a better pass catcher.

JaxJag_1
11-15-2008, 07:04 PM
I don't know about that. People don't think Shady runs well between the tackles but he has gotten much better this year and he seems to break more tackles this year than last.

P-L
11-15-2008, 07:06 PM
I don't know about that. People don't think Shady runs well between the tackles but he has gotten much better this year and he seems to break more tackles this year than last.
He certainly isn't Reggie Bush when it comes to running inside, but I do think he tends to bounce a few too many runs outside. And as we've seen with Reggie Bush, that really doesn't work in the NFL. However, like illmatic said, he is the better all-around back.

Race for the Heisman
11-15-2008, 07:24 PM
Two guys I both like a lot. I think McCoy will go higher, but Shonn Greene could be a very good back in his own right. I'll get back to it after I think about it a bit more.

giantsfan
11-15-2008, 07:41 PM
McCoy, like Greene but he doesn't have the quick feet of Marshawn or the top speed of a Turner. So I don't think he has the ability to be a top tier starter. Now he could be a very good consistent starter for a while for a team, but McCoy has the ability to be a true standout and a guy who's a key cog for a team's success. I like how he's adjusted this season and leads me to believe he'll adjust yet again once he hits the NFL and that will push him into the Probowl contender stratosphere of running backs.

Mr. Stiller
11-15-2008, 09:15 PM
He certainly isn't Reggie Bush when it comes to running inside, but I do think he tends to bounce a few too many runs outside. And as we've seen with Reggie Bush, that really doesn't work in the NFL. However, like illmatic said, he is the better all-around back.

Could be a fair assessment, but, to be fair to him again, He is practically the Pitt offense..

They have 0 passing game, Stull is average and I think that's giving him a compliment.

Kinder isn't the same receiver he used to be, Turner is worthless. Baldwin has a ton of potential, just underused and under-developed...

Now I'm not saying that he's a better inside the tackle runner than Shonn Greene, but as far as Reggie Bush, Bush had the elite speed and just took almost every run outside for 20-30 yards..

McCoy is doing it because if he doesn't break it for yard, they lose.

Vox Populi
11-15-2008, 09:22 PM
McCoy reminds me of Frank Gore moreso than Bush or Tomlinson. Gore has developed his game very well since breaking into the league. I think McCoy could be a similar style of player.

steelernation77
11-15-2008, 09:29 PM
Shonn Greene has a great burst through the hole and makes very good cuts.
Trust me, he's the real deal. He will be a consistent NFL running back.

ElectricEye
11-15-2008, 09:54 PM
I'll take McCoy. I think he could be the best runningback in the class.

I'm still a bit suspect of Greene. I haven't seen him play much yet, but he was very impressive against Penn State. He's defiantly a big dude and he doesn't look completely heavy running the football. I like him, but I'm still just not sold on the speed.

Staubach12
11-15-2008, 10:33 PM
Ill take McCoy. I was a bit sceptical of his inside ability early this year, but he's improved as an inside runner. He's very good. Shonn Green is good as well, but I'd like to see him be a bit more versatile and explosive.

ToldLikeItIs
11-16-2008, 05:27 AM
Ok, first of all, you are all rather uninformed.

Despite Shonn Greene's label as an old, in-between the tackles guy, with no ability to break one deep, he has two runs over 50 yards this season. His long is 75, McCoy's is 54.

LeSean McCoy is very similar to Clinton Portis I think, and Shonn reminds me of Terrell Davis.

Stats 1585 to 1000 yards

15 to 16 tds

Louisville held McCoy to 40 yards, and he has disciplinary issues.

Why McCoy over Greene again?

Cliche Guevara
11-16-2008, 05:54 AM
both i believe will become decent backs in the nfl

underscore
11-16-2008, 06:19 AM
McCoy does not have disciplinary issues. He was a hot head coming out of high school, but has been a model citizen in college.

Jonny
11-16-2008, 06:46 AM
I like both, and I think that Greene is underrated. He has some off the field questions though.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 10:32 AM
i think you answered your own question. i know purdues not loaded with speed or talent but when i saw that 75 yarder and him opening space between him and the dbs, im pretty close to sold. greene has been the most unstoppable back this entire year and hes also been the most consistent. he is literally carrying that offense on his back, hes already the best tackle breaker and strongest runner of the top prospects. not lt shifty but pretty shifty and showed some surrising speed. i see him as a late rd 1 prospect. leasean mccoy will never be a quality nfl back. hes too slow to be a big play game breaker and lacks power and tackle breaking ability you need between the tackles. has no value added skills. subpar speed and subpar size/ power is not a good combination for an nfl back. mccoy goes down on first contact about 90% of the time. if you cant outrun them or cant run them over its going to be tough sledding. another michael hart clone. greene rd 1-2. mccoy would be worth a pick in the same area as michael hart was drafted. maybe not as slow as hart, but plenty slow, less powerful and compactly built.

Malaka
11-16-2008, 10:53 AM
I like Shonn Greene, and I do too think is underrated, I think he can become a decent back in the NFL, but I still question his speed. Just because Shonn had that 75 yard run doesn't mean he has some great breakaway ability... I mean LenWhale White had an untouched what 60 or 70 yard TD run, and do we consider him to have breakaway speed? No... Shonn Greene will be a bruiser in the league in the mold of a Jamal Lewis sort of...

I would take McCoy over him, because he has that potential to be a an elite back in the NFL. He might not be great in between the holes but he is improving and if he keeps up the good work he will be just fine running through the line of scrimmage. He does not have elite 4.3 speed but has good 4.4-4.5 speed , but he also has that elusiveness and that drive, as someone else said he IS Pitt's offense.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 11:02 AM
it wasnt the length of the run. it was what happened during it. the way he pullled away from those dbs at 235. i just dont know how a player who gets totally shut down in several games, is slower, smaller, way less peoductive can be a better back. in no area is mccoy better. not physically or on the stat sheet or on the field. nowhere. hes smaller and slower. remember evoultion. theyre getting bigger and faster. not smaller and slower

Malaka
11-16-2008, 11:27 AM
Barry Sanders 5'9 self says hi, so no size is not everything. If you are going to argue with me that Shonn is faster than LeSean McCoy, you are just dead wrong, Shonn is obviously a better inside runner, but I like McCoy's potential better.

Size is honestly everything to you, if you are not a certain size you are useless in your opinion. You dislike Knowshon Moreno and McCoy who are similar runners, but you love Shonn Greene, so I guess Brandon Jacobs is the best runningback to ever play the game for you, and QBs must be at least 6'4 235 pounds or they will never amount to anything, size is nice, but there are so many players in the NFL who are undersized for their position and flourish in the NFL, like Drew Brees, Darren Sproles, Steve Smith (CAR), etc.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 11:38 AM
leasean mccoy= barry sanders. bad comparison. leasean mccoy=michael hart more likely. i know that at the nfl level. you got to run through them or around them. there arent many gaping holes unless youre lucky enough to be up against dorsey that week. i dont think mccoy can do either. aqt least he hasnt exhibited great speed or great tackle breaking ability in the games.

Matthew Jones
11-16-2008, 11:39 AM
I would take Shonn Greene, and possibly over any running back in the draft besides Chris Wells. I'm not even sure about that, because Greene was done better against every team the two of them have in common. He's just an outstanding talent. I'd compare him to Cedric Benson coming out and for those of you who remember Benson at Texas, you'll know he was very, very good.

Malaka
11-16-2008, 11:43 AM
When did I say LeSean McCoy = Barry Sanders, although that is not a horrible comparison, LeSean will never be able to touch Barry's jock strap. All I meant by bringing up Barry Sanders is his size.

Mike Hart ran a 4.7 or 4.6 like Shonn Greene, LeSean runs a 4.45 around that. LeSean McCoy has shown great elusiveness, and knows how to make people miss, he won't go through the defender like Shonn Greene can but can definitely make him miss. I like both prospects just McCoy a bit better.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 11:47 AM
yes comparing anyone to barry sanders is a horrible comparison.what he has that mccoy doesnt is great speed and elusivenss. and a far more compact body bulid. 4.45 no way not even close. if thats true, greene runs 4.35. becuase hes faster than mccoy. we can only hope greene is not a cdric benson clone.

Malaka
11-16-2008, 11:51 AM
But I didn't compare LeSean to Barry...

If Greene runs more than a 4.5 I will **** myself.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 11:53 AM
thats what im saying about mccoy. hes slower than greene

Malaka
11-16-2008, 11:59 AM
Have you seen LeSean play? He is so quick on his feet, just because he does not have great straight line speed, what the hell does that mean. He can make people miss.

CashmoneyDrew
11-16-2008, 12:01 PM
thats what im saying about mccoy. hes slower than greene

No. He's not.

Pb&j
11-16-2008, 01:40 PM
I think it is funny that people compare Shonn Greene to Jamal Lewis because he is slow... I remember Jamal running 4.3s coming out of Tennessee.

Solomon
11-16-2008, 05:02 PM
I'm not sure where all this talk about McCoy having 4.5+ speed is coming from. He certainly looks fast in games. Coming out of HS he ran a 4.25 40 at a Nike training camp (the fastest time overall at that camp). Now I'm not saying that 4.25 is what he will run at his pro day or the combine but he most definitly will not run slower than 4.5. A matter of fact I expect that LeSean McCoy will run a 4.40 or faster at the combine (if he doesn't run at the combine then his pro day).

Nonetheless I really like Greene as a prospect. Big, strong, elusive, with great vision and impressive cutting ability. I don't think Chris Wells is much better than him. Actually I think Greene offers far more value as a second rounder than Wells does as a top 10 selection.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 07:23 PM
jamaal lewis wasnt slow. neither is green. ive seen mccoy play lots of times and id like to root for him an believe hell be a good nfl back. but i dont think he will. you either have to go through them or around them. i dont think he can do either. if no one touches him hes fine. but that doesnt happen much at the nfl level. and if they dont touch you must have the speed to exploit it and i dont think he does. shonn greene busted a 75 yarder and he was pulling away from the dbs. im not saying he has stewart speed but sub 4.5 is not out of the question. he was pulling away from chasing dbs.

CLong4Heisman
11-16-2008, 08:40 PM
McCoy is an good back. He has broken tackles plenty of times, he never stops his feet and always falls foward.
Greene is a good back. He breaks tackles, never stops his feet and always falls foward.
The difference? McCoy gets more exposure on tv.

Bruce Banner
11-16-2008, 09:01 PM
Coming out of HS he ran a 4.25 40 at a Nike training camp (the fastest time overall at that camp).

Don't even mention numbers this absurd.

I "get" what you're saying though.

ElectricEye
11-16-2008, 09:21 PM
yes comparing anyone to barry sanders is a horrible comparison.what he has that mccoy doesnt is great speed and elusivenss. and a far more compact body bulid. 4.45 no way not even close. if thats true, greene runs 4.35. becuase hes faster than mccoy. we can only hope greene is not a cdric benson clone.

That post lacked anything true in it. Shonn Green faster than Lesean McCoy? Even you know you're digging.

Stop comparing every runningback you don't like to Mike Hart. It's really, really annoying. McCoy is bigger than Hart and damned near twice as fast and elusive.

Solomon
11-16-2008, 09:30 PM
Don't even mention numbers this absurd.

I "get" what you're saying though.

Well we can just say that he ran the fastest 40 out of anyone at that camp (by alot). Which included Ray Rice who ran a 4.42 at the combine.

ElectricEye
11-16-2008, 09:32 PM
McCoy DOES have great straightline speed. He's a 4.4 guy, for sure. At the very least, he's a 4.45, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something like 4.38.

Greene is a 4.6 guy at best.

steelernation77
11-16-2008, 10:34 PM
McCoy DOES have great straightline speed. He's a 4.4 guy, for sure. At the very least, he's a 4.45, but I wouldn't be surprised to see something like 4.38.

Greene is a 4.6 guy at best.

If Shonn Greene is a "4.6 at best" than he's sure lost a step since he was a 4.4 guy coming out of prep school and returned kicks his sophomore year.

Greene will run in the 4.5s. He may not have great break away speed but neither does Marion Barber.

Race for the Heisman
11-16-2008, 10:39 PM
I agree, Green might not separate from safeties but I don't think that doesn't mean he can't break runs of thirty or forty yards or even longer.

ElectricEye
11-16-2008, 10:46 PM
If Shonn Greene is a "4.6 at best" than he's sure lost a step since he was a 4.4 guy coming out of prep school and returned kicks his sophomore year.

Greene will run in the 4.5s. He may not have great break away speed but neither does Marion Barber.

I'm not knocking the guy. I think he's a quality prospect, I just don't see the speed. He ran a 4.48 coming out of prep school at 210. 40 times are incredibly inaccurate as far as recruiting goes, and you have to take every one of them with a major grain of salt. He's put on about 30 pounds since then as well. 4.6 might be a tad conservative, but still, he's not a burner.

He has a chance to be productive in the NFL, but personally, I wouldn't touch him until the end of the second because of said lack of speed. You have to respect his production this season though.

ToldLikeItIs
11-16-2008, 11:48 PM
Two years ago, at 230, Greene ran a 4.42, good enough for second best on the team to Charles Godfrey.

He'll train well, and hard, and he won't run any worse than a 4.52 at the combine. He's not even in top shape, he just got back into football over the summer.

Don't question his speed, it isn't warranted.

If anything, question his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield, I think that is his main weakness, and I'm a huge Hawkeye fan.

ElectricEye
11-16-2008, 11:56 PM
I don't know. He just doesn't look that fast to me. He's doing what he's doing against the reputably slowest of all the conferences as well. That plays a bit into it, not much, but a bit. They still play pretty solid D in the Big Ten...even if they are two steps slower than the SEC guys.

If he does time that well, it's probably good for his stock, but from what I've seen he plays like a 4.6 guy. He wouldn't be the first guy to make that work though.

giantsfan
11-16-2008, 11:57 PM
i think you answered your own question. i know purdues not loaded with speed or talent but when i saw that 75 yarder and him opening space between him and the dbs, im pretty close to sold. greene has been the most unstoppable back this entire year and hes also been the most consistent. he is literally carrying that offense on his back, hes already the best tackle breaker and strongest runner of the top prospects. not lt shifty but pretty shifty and showed some surrising speed. i see him as a late rd 1 prospect. leasean mccoy will never be a quality nfl back. hes too slow to be a big play game breaker and lacks power and tackle breaking ability you need between the tackles. has no value added skills. subpar speed and subpar size/ power is not a good combination for an nfl back. mccoy goes down on first contact about 90% of the time. if you cant outrun them or cant run them over its going to be tough sledding. another michael hart clone. greene rd 1-2. mccoy would be worth a pick in the same area as michael hart was drafted. maybe not as slow as hart, but plenty slow, less powerful and compactly built.

Do you hate every running back who doesn't have 4.35- speed or weigh 235+? I mean don't you like guys who are good running backs, you know guys who have vision, quick feet, make great cuts and keep their legs churning and stay low? You know smart runners? Or do you just perfer madden runningbacks who can either trick stick or highlight move everyone?

gator3guy
11-17-2008, 12:25 AM
Greene putting up 100+ every game speaks for itself. The scouts will NOT forget this. As far as his speed he's going to be around 4.5. Once he declares I'm sure that will be his main focus during his combine preparation. If he trains well and gets in good shape there should be NO WAY he should run a 4.6. Even if he does, speed is not his game. He's never going to be a big threat guy. He's going to be a two down back, in between the tackles, 4 yards a pop.

Bottom line: Greene low risk, medium reward McCoy high risk high reward

I'll take Greene.

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 12:29 AM
Do you hate every running back who doesn't have 4.35- speed or weigh 235+? I mean don't you like guys who are good running backs, you know guys who have vision, quick feet, make great cuts and keep their legs churning and stay low? You know smart runners? Or do you just perfer madden runningbacks who can either trick stick or highlight move everyone?

I expect LeSean McCoy's Combine Numbers to be fairly similar (Within reason) To Ladanian Tomlinsons coming out.

While I don't think McCoy will be the elite player LT is/was.. I expect a fairly similar style of play.

BrabbitMcRabbit
11-17-2008, 12:41 AM
Greene putting up 100+ every game speaks for itself. The scouts will NOT forget this. As far as his speed he's going to be around 4.5. Once he declares I'm sure that will be his main focus during his combine preparation. If he trains well and gets in good shape there should be NO WAY he should run a 4.6. Even if he does, speed is not his game. He's never going to be a big threat guy. He's going to be a two down back, in between the tackles, 4 yards a pop.

Bottom line: Greene low risk, medium reward McCoy high risk high reward

I'll take Greene.

This guy gets it.

Shonn Greene = Rudi Johnson
LeSean McCoy = boom-or-bust

McCoy has great quickness and instincts, but he also has a lanky frame with marginal power. Greene is built to handle 300-350 carries at the NFL level.

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 12:50 AM
Greene putting up 100+ every game speaks for itself. The scouts will NOT forget this. As far as his speed he's going to be around 4.5. Once he declares I'm sure that will be his main focus during his combine preparation. If he trains well and gets in good shape there should be NO WAY he should run a 4.6. Even if he does, speed is not his game. He's never going to be a big threat guy. He's going to be a two down back, in between the tackles, 4 yards a pop.

Bottom line: Greene low risk, medium reward McCoy high risk high reward

I'll take Greene.

Why is McCoy high risk?

He's not Greene between the tackles but he's certainly one of the best. He gets a lane and makes the most out of it.

His vision is on a completely different level than Greenes. Same with his receiving ability.

McCoy's only real flaw in his game is he tends to not switch the ball to his outside arm which resulted in some fumbles earlier in the season.. Buts overcoming having a terrible offensive line, an even worse QB, and an even worse OC (Matt Cavanaugh). He's literally the only offensive play threat on this team.

Greene has: 1632 Yards from Scrimmage, on 264 Touches. 15 TD's

McCoy has: 1277 Yards from Scrimmage, on 230 Touches. 16 TD's

SenorGato
11-17-2008, 12:53 AM
I expect LeSean McCoy's Combine Numbers to be fairly similar (Within reason) To Ladanian Tomlinsons coming out.

While I don't think McCoy will be the elite player LT is/was.. I expect a fairly similar style of play.

This post wins.

I think McCoy's got the frame to add 5-10 pounds without killing his speed and quickness.

He's an every down version of the speed backs like DeAngelo Williams and Leon Washington, who else are very slippery, deceptively powerful runners like LT.

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 12:58 AM
This guy gets it.

Shonn Greene = Rudi Johnson
LeSean McCoy = boom-or-bust

McCoy has great quickness and instincts, but he also has a lanky frame with marginal power. Greene is built to handle 300-350 carries at the NFL level.

I don't see what you're getting.

Only 12 RB's rushed over 250 times last year.

Of them.. only 3 were over 230lbs.

2007 Attempts:

1) Clinton Portis ~ 325 attempts (221lbs)
2) Edgerrin James ~ 324 Attempts (219lbs)
3) Willie Parker ~ 321 Attempts (209lbs)
4) Ladanian Tomlinson ~ 315 Attempts (221lbs)
5) Thomas Jones ~ 310 Attempts (219lbs)
6) LenDale White ~ 303 Attempts (235lbs)
7) Jamal Lewis ~ 298 Attempts (245Lbs)
8) Willis McGahee ~ 294 Attempts (232lbs)
9) Marshawn Lynch ~ 280 Attempts (215lbs)
10) Brian Westbrook ~ 278 Attempts (203lbs)
11) Joseph Addai ~ 261 Attempts (214lbs)
12) Frank Gore ~ 260 Attempts (217lbs)

He should be used Similar to Tomlinson/Westbrook/Addai. I don't understand why he couldn't do it.

In fact, I'm guessing he probably weighs about 210-215lbs right now.

ElectricEye
11-17-2008, 12:58 AM
McCoy also has two years as a productive ball carrier. Greene will conceivably only start a year, and that comes with injury issues and academic problems.

As far as why McCoy is riskier, the lanky frame is starting to fill out. He's taken quite a few steps to becoming a complete back this year, and that includes adding a few pounds by the looks of it. He'll never be a power guy, but that's just not the style he runs with. But with some added strength, he'll break a couple arm tackles.

gator3guy
11-17-2008, 01:02 AM
Why is McCoy high risk?



The main reason is I question his running inside the tackles- not at the college level but the pro level. He's small and adding weight to his frame could take away from his speed and quickness. Don't get me wrong. I actually really like him. I'm rooting for him he's one of my favorite players. I just don't know if his style is going to work at the NFL level on a consistent basis.

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 01:11 AM
The main reason is I question his running inside the tackles- not at the college level but the pro level. He's small and adding weight to his frame could take away from his speed and quickness. Don't get me wrong. I actually really like him. I'm rooting for him he's one of my favorite players. I just don't know if his style is going to work at the NFL level on a consistent basis.

By small you mean about 5'11 205-210lbs?

I don't see what he does much differently than Addai/Westbrook/Tomlinson.

I Compare him to a Tomlinson a lot because they have a similar style. LT is shying a bit from contact now, but The vision, the cuts, the receiving ability.. It's there in McCoy.

As for his frame, he is lanky, but he's filling it out the right way, slowly adding muscle instead of just putting on 20 lbs then finding out he's terrible.

Pitt has a good S&C Coach.

I see this guy almost on a weekly basis and I don't see the same issues everyone is trying to point out.

gator3guy
11-17-2008, 01:17 AM
When i said small i was referring to the 'lanky' build. The three guys you mentioned are brick **** houses. Again, I'm not saying I don't like him, I just see him as a risky pick that if developed correctly could be special back.

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 01:26 AM
When i said small i was referring to the 'lanky' build. The three guys you mentioned are brick **** houses. Again, I'm not saying I don't like him, I just see him as a risky pick that if developed correctly could be special back.

How are they "Brick **** houses" ?

Westbrook is 5'10 203lbs.

Addai is 214lbs.

Tomlinson is 221lbs.

If he shows up at the combine at 210-215lbs... there's not a huge gap (which would only be about 5-8lbs more than he looks right now..)

I understand what your saying, I just don't see the risk.

ElectricEye
11-17-2008, 01:28 AM
He should put on about ten over the course of the next year or so. Probably starts hurting his speed if he goes much more than that, but he's getting a lot stronger. He still has a lot of upside left. He's really good now and he has the potential to be even better in a few years.

Larry121283
11-17-2008, 01:25 PM
The comparison of Shonn Greene to Burner Turner is pretty damn accurate. Never thought of it before, but kudos to that poster. Pretty accurate.

'cuse-213
11-17-2008, 05:40 PM
I hate when people think lbs and height make up an athletes build. I can find you many players with the same attributes who can look completely different.

McCoy is lanky. Addai, LT, Westbrook are not.

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 07:16 PM
addais 215, tomlinson is 220. thyre more stockily built, break more tackles. and theyre 4.4 guys. i dont see the comparison. youre talking about a 205 4.6 guy in the same athletic breath as addai and tomlinson vs 220 guys who run 4.4. bad comparison. mccoys not going to get it done. god just didnt give him enough compared to the competition. from what ive seen, and ive seen lots of mccoy, hes not faster than shon greene. and hes certainly not bigger and better tackle breaker. maybe a tad more loose and shifty, but hes also 30lbs lighter. if steve slaton kevin smith and ray rice, both just as productive and way better athletes can go in rd 3, i just dont see how mccoy is anything more than a mid rd pick. greene depending on work could be anywhere from rd 1-2. if hes slow hes a second rd. if hes fast he could be a rd 1. i just dont see a worthwhile pick for mccoy. i just dont see that dude going up against the steelers and being able to get yards. thats kind of my measuring stick. because it aint easy. you better have some special skills to put up yards on the steelers. i just dont see a slow back who cant outrun their lb corps let alne their dbs or break their tackles can be succesful.

illmatic74
11-17-2008, 07:23 PM
addais 215, tomlinson is 220. thyre more stockily built, break more tackles. and theyre 4.4 guys. i dont see the comparison. youre talking about a 205 4.6 guy in the same athletic breath as addai and tomlinson vs 220 guys who run 4.4. bad comparison. mccoys not going to get it done. god just didnt give him enough compared to the competition. from what ive seen, and ive seen lots of mccoy, hes not faster than shon greene. and hes certainly not bigger and better tackle breaker. maybe a tad more loose and shifty, but hes also 30lbs lighter. if steve slaton kevin smith and ray rice, both just as productive and way better athletes can go in rd 3, i just dont see how mccoy is anything more than a mid rd pick. greene depending on work could be anywhere from rd 1-2. if hes slow hes a second rd. if hes fast he could be a rd 1. i just dont see a worthwhile pick for mccoy. i just dont see that dude going up against the steelers and being able to get yards. thats kind of my measuring stick. because it aint easy. you better have some special skills to put up yards on the steelers. i just dont see a slow back who cant outrun their lb corps let alne their dbs or break their tackles can be succesful.I have caught a lot of Pittsburgh, Rutgers and West Virginia games over the years. Mccoy is a lot more explosive than Slaton and Rice. It is not even close. You overate the 40 yard dash absurdly. Oh yeah the Steelers are the best defensive in the league so if you are not succesful against them doesn't mean they suck.

Zyro_1014
11-17-2008, 07:23 PM
so are you going to base all of your opinions on which RB you think can gain yards on the steelers?

not alot of proven RB's gain alot of yards on the steelers.

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 07:31 PM
did you happen to catch slaton this week vs indy? mccoy more explosive. i dont think so. my measuring stick is quite a lot higher than most. i think if i was going to invest a high pick on a back, he has to be the kind of back who can have a least a moderate amount of success vs the steelers. i think its a good measuring stick for a back. im not saying put up 200 on them isnt going to happen no matter who the back is. but can they get the hard yards. if you cant, i dont see the purpose of using a rd 1 pick on a back

Malaka
11-17-2008, 07:36 PM
So I guess the Giants #1 rushing offense is really god awful because they sucked against the steelers?

Both prospects are good, but you have no proof, or evidence, or anything to back-up these crazy claims about McCoy.

illmatic74
11-17-2008, 07:40 PM
did you happen to catch slaton this week vs indy? mccoy more explosive. i dont think so. my measuring stick is quite a lot higher than most. i think if i was going to invest a high pick on a back, he has to be the kind of back who can have a least a moderate amount of success vs the steelers. i think its a good measuring stick for a back. im not saying put up 200 on them isnt going to happen no matter who the back is. but can they get the hard yards. if you cant, i dont see the purpose of using a rd 1 pick on a backTeams are averaging 3.0 ypc against the Steelers no runs against the Steelers.

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 07:53 PM
that means someones getting 4 ypc on them. because there are lots getting 2 ypc against them. i had the pleasure of the game. trust me, they were getting good hard yards. just think of it tis way. if brandon jacobs cant do it, how will lesean mccoy?

Bengals1690
11-17-2008, 08:34 PM
that means someones getting 4 ypc on them. because there are lots getting 2 ypc against them. i had the pleasure of the game. trust me, they were getting good hard yards. just think of it tis way. if brandon jacobs cant do it, how will lesean mccoy?

if brandon jacobs cant do it, how can greene

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 08:51 PM
addais 215, tomlinson is 220. thyre more stockily built, break more tackles. and theyre 4.4 guys. i dont see the comparison. youre talking about a 205 4.6 guy in the same athletic breath as addai and tomlinson vs 220 guys who run 4.4. bad comparison. mccoys not going to get it done. god just didnt give him enough compared to the competition. from what ive seen, and ive seen lots of mccoy, hes not faster than shon greene. and hes certainly not bigger and better tackle breaker. maybe a tad more loose and shifty, but hes also 30lbs lighter. if steve slaton kevin smith and ray rice, both just as productive and way better athletes can go in rd 3, i just dont see how mccoy is anything more than a mid rd pick. greene depending on work could be anywhere from rd 1-2. if hes slow hes a second rd. if hes fast he could be a rd 1. i just dont see a worthwhile pick for mccoy. i just dont see that dude going up against the steelers and being able to get yards. thats kind of my measuring stick. because it aint easy. you better have some special skills to put up yards on the steelers. i just dont see a slow back who cant outrun their lb corps let alne their dbs or break their tackles can be succesful.

Again,further proving your lack of knowledge.

McCoy is no worse than a 4.45 back... which... Is plenty fast.

And again, 40 yard is overrated, look at his 3-cone and 10/20 yard splits, those will be more telling. But, You wouldn't know that.

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 08:55 PM
right mccoy is as fast as felix jones. if you say so i guess. im thinking more in the mike hart range than felix jones. maybe greene can maybe he cant. but at least maybe. not no chance at all see lesean mccoy

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 08:57 PM
did you happen to catch slaton this week vs indy? mccoy more explosive. i dont think so. my measuring stick is quite a lot higher than most. i think if i was going to invest a high pick on a back, he has to be the kind of back who can have a least a moderate amount of success vs the steelers. i think its a good measuring stick for a back. im not saying put up 200 on them isnt going to happen no matter who the back is. but can they get the hard yards. if you cant, i dont see the purpose of using a rd 1 pick on a back

Shonn Greene would not get 100 yards on the Steelers.

Addai? 12/34yards (Yeah less than 3YPC)
Tomlinson? 18/57 (Barely over 3ypc)
Portis? 13/51
Jacobs? 18/41
Taylor? 10/19
Jones-Drew? 5/7
Le'Ron McClain? 16/63
Jamal Lewis? 19/38
Steve Slaton? 13/43


Yeah, I'd only consider a back special if they get 100 yards on Pittsburgh, by themselves with no help of the oline :rolleyes:

Pittsburgh is just beating up poor competition.. no Great RB's in there..

Lets flip this..

Who do you see worthy of a 1st round choice of a RB?

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 08:59 PM
maybe not. but hes still better than lesean mccoy

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 09:00 PM
maybe not. but hes still better than lesean mccoy

Ok.

I'll stop feeding the troll. Why can't you just agree to come out of the closet Mr. Millen?

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 09:05 PM
it always comes down to that when theres nothing left to say

Bengals1690
11-17-2008, 09:06 PM
it always comes down to that when theres nothing left to say

because youre an idiot that knows nothing about football.

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 09:10 PM
if you say so

illmatic74
11-17-2008, 09:10 PM
it always comes down to that when theres nothing left to sayBecause all of your opinions are based entirely on size, 40 yard dash times and how well you think they can do against the Steelers. Then when they reach the NFL the players you didn't rank highly you put the blame of their team's misfortunes entirely on them.

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 09:12 PM
you really think i dont watch the games. i saw`mccoy and greene in the same game. greenes better. foir the college level as well as nfl level

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 09:14 PM
because it is their fault theyll be picking in the top 5 again. theyere getting paid 7 mil per year for their team to be worse. theyre supposed to be impact players and theyre not only not impact players, but they are bad players. just like i predicted

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 09:15 PM
you really think i dont watch the games. i saw`mccoy and greene in the same game. greenes better. foir the college level as well as nfl level

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the quality of the team IE Iowas Defense being Better than Pitt by a long shot.

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 09:16 PM
nope. greene is just better

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 09:17 PM
nope. greene is just better

Nope. You're just a terrible talent evaluator.

It's true.

illmatic74
11-17-2008, 09:18 PM
because it is their fault theyll be picking in the top 5 again. theyere getting paid 7 mil per year for their team to be worse. theyre supposed to be impact players and theyre not only not impact players, but they are bad players. just like i predictedThe Chiefs are a rebuilding team that got rid of their top defensive player. The Raiders are the worst passing team in the NFL. The Rams other than Carriker and Long have a defense filled with overated over the hill veterans. So it is not entirely their fault. Football is a team sport no one player can win a game or lose a game(except Jason David).

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 09:21 PM
really. the guy who called bust on dorsey and long. the guy who said matt ryan should be the first pick. im telling ya, im coming up roses with this past class and im going to be even better this time. my guys are playing good other than injured.

Bengals1690
11-17-2008, 09:21 PM
The Chiefs are a rebuilding team that got rid of their top defensive player. The Raiders are the worst passing team in the NFL. The Rams other than Carriker and Long have a defense filled with overated over the hill veterans. So it is not entirely their fault. Football is a team sport no one player can win a game or lose a game(except Jason David).
youre wrong its all glenn dorsey's fault.

illmatic74
11-17-2008, 09:24 PM
really. the guy who called bust on dorsey and long. the guy who said matt ryan should be the first pick. im telling ya, im coming up roses with this past class and im going to be even better this time. my guys are playing good other than injured.You were right about Ryan but how is Calais Cambell doing.

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 09:29 PM
hes playing very good. campbell. better than dorsey. and heis playing quite a bit. and theyre winning and playing decent defense.

Mr. Stiller
11-17-2008, 09:32 PM
edit: wow triple post

STARHEATHER
11-17-2008, 09:36 PM
he asked i answered. hes playing good. certainly worth his selection. unlike others

illmatic74
11-17-2008, 09:55 PM
he asked i answered. hes playing good. certainly worth his selection. unlike othersWith his 17 tackles no sks or TFLS. Excuse me I am going to bang my head on the desk to try to make a Starheather argument.cambell has been getting overpowerd. they gave up 56 points to the jets. with all the money he is payed he should be able to stop favre by himself.

hockey619
11-17-2008, 10:05 PM
STARHEATHER

You say that the Chiefs and Rams lack of D is all Dorsey and Long's fault. How about Kansas States struggles on offense? Shouldnt Josh Freeman take the fall for that according to your theory?

And seeing as how you argued that an offense can only be as good as its QB and that no team can win without a great QB, why isnt Kansas State winning then?

ElectricEye
11-17-2008, 10:12 PM
I can't believe how few people are in Heather's face for saying McCoy will run a 4.6. That's really insane.

gator3guy
11-17-2008, 10:18 PM
I hate when people think lbs and height make up an athletes build. I can find you many players with the same attributes who can look completely different.

McCoy is lanky. Addai, LT, Westbrook are not.

This is what I was talking about. These guys are diesel. McCoy has some work.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-17-2008, 10:19 PM
I'll come clean. I have a somewhat irrational worry about runners like Shonn Greene. Some might remember me rating Jonathan Stewart relativaly low heading into this past draft. They're the kind of runners which make you wonder that, if at anytime they lose any speed due to age or injury, will they turn into what we saw in guys Terrance Wheatley, Eddie George, and Stephen Davis later on?

I also have to admit I'm almost always a fan of runners who can create yardage for themselves like McCoy does. He's got such great footwork and quickness, if he can mentally handle the NFL, I think he could have a long career. Maybe I'm fooling myself into thinking it really matters what they do past their rookie contract (I suspect I am), but I can't help but consider longer term ramifications in taking a player.

So, yeah. That overly complicated ramble would be indicating LeSean McCoy.

Matthew Jones
11-17-2008, 10:23 PM
I can't believe how few people are in Heather's face for saying McCoy will run a 4.6. That's really insane.

Aaron Rodgers ran a 4.7 and Kevin O'Connell ran a 4.6. Not THAT insane.

BamaFalcon59
11-17-2008, 10:26 PM
He said Mike Hart and McCoy have the same speed.

Wow.

P-L
11-17-2008, 10:30 PM
lesean mccoy only got 39 yards against louisville. if he can't run against louisville how is he going to run against nfl teams

BamaFalcon59
11-17-2008, 10:31 PM
I like how you even immitated his style of writing with no capitalization or punctuation.

ElectricEye
11-17-2008, 11:03 PM
Aaron Rodgers ran a 4.7 and Kevin O'Connell ran a 4.6. Not THAT insane.

I'm talking about LeSean. Not Colt. That would be a damned good time for Colt.

SenorGato
11-17-2008, 11:10 PM
I hate when people think lbs and height make up an athletes build. I can find you many players with the same attributes who can look completely different.

McCoy is lanky. Addai, LT, Westbrook are not.

Addai loked lanky coming out. I thought that was his biggest knock.

McCoy has a similar build coming out, but he's been more durable and obviously he can gain weight.

iowatreat54
11-17-2008, 11:45 PM
this is a silly discussion, since Shonn Greene is staying for his senior year...



/end dream :(

illmatic74
11-17-2008, 11:56 PM
this is a silly discussion, since Shonn Greene is staying for his senior year...



/end dream :(Isn't he 24 already

iowatreat54
11-18-2008, 12:01 AM
Isn't he 24 already

I believe he is 23 but will be 24 come start of next season

the only thing I would worry about with Shonn is that he gets dinged up quite often because of the way he runs, but never really has injuries that force him out (exception being getting a shot to the head, and first 1-3 games of the season when he was out of shape)

that and he really is below average catching the ball out of the backfield

the only reason I would say he should come back is to improve his all around game, seeing as his blocking isn't anything special either...but he is as old as most Seniors and his stock might not get any higher

Mr. Stiller
11-18-2008, 12:57 AM
lesean mccoy only got 39 yards against louisville. if he can't run against louisville how is he going to run against nfl teams

Did you watch the game?

Me Likey Rookies
11-18-2008, 01:04 AM
LeSean has better burst and is more versatile.

Greene is better between the tackles due to the way he is built.

They are different kinds of backs, that different offenses will have ranked differently. The bigger, more physical teams will want Greene, while the WC teams will want LeSean.

dabears10
11-18-2008, 01:49 AM
I'll come clean. I have a somewhat irrational worry about runners like Shonn Greene. Some might remember me rating Jonathan Stewart relativaly low heading into this past draft. They're the kind of runners which make you wonder that, if at anytime they lose any speed due to age or injury, will they turn into what we saw in guys Terrance Wheatley, Eddie George, and Stephen Davis later on?

I also have to admit I'm almost always a fan of runners who can create yardage for themselves like McCoy does. He's got such great footwork and quickness, if he can mentally handle the NFL, I think he could have a long career. Maybe I'm fooling myself into thinking it really matters what they do past their rookie contract (I suspect I am), but I can't help but consider longer term ramifications in taking a player.

So, yeah. That overly complicated ramble would be indicating LeSean McCoy.

Eddie George and Stephen Davis had successful NFL careers.

I think looking for 10-12 years out of a Running back is just shooting in the dark in the NFL. Take a guy who can get you 6 Solid years with a handful of probowls would be a successful draft pick.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-18-2008, 02:00 AM
Eddie George and Stephen Davis had successful NFL careers.

I mean that once they lost any sort of chunk out of their step, they ceased to be very effective.

And I know I'm being fairly picky. But I don't think Greene could be the only runner on an offense, and I don't know how long he'd perform at his peak in the NFL (I'm guessing not very long).

P-L
11-18-2008, 08:45 AM
Did you watch the game?
You completely missed the point of my post.

STARHEATHER
11-18-2008, 07:15 PM
so you believe shady mccoy all 200 lbs of him will survive and be a first tier stud but not greene all 235 of him. im going to disagree on more burst too. i saw a 75 yarder by greene. and they werent catching him. i dont know if greenes worthy of a rd 1 but pretty close. mccoy is heading to michael hart land

STARHEATHER
11-18-2008, 07:16 PM
im a fan of backs who can run past or over people. mccoy can do neither. you need to reevaluate how you feel about backs. theyre getting bigger stronger and faster. not smaller slower and weaker

illmatic74
11-18-2008, 07:37 PM
im a fan of backs who can run past or over people. mccoy can do neither. you need to reevaluate how you feel about backs. theyre getting bigger stronger and faster. not smaller slower and weakeryour right jovorskie lane is the best rb prospecct. he is 283 pounds.in the nfl you need to run over all 11 players because there is no blocking in the nfl.

STARHEATHER
11-18-2008, 07:47 PM
just remember where you heard it first. lane will be a huge steal. you will hear his name lots on sundays. i dont know what that has to do with greene. they gave lane the ball, they went to bowl games. they dont 3-9 and lose to baylor. just for the record, i had him projected as a rd 3. but now i love him even more as a rd 6 or UFA.he can do lots of stuff that nfl backs have to do. weight is going to need to be controlled. i like him better than leasean mccoy. just remember where you heard it first. well you didnt hear it first. but im the only one youll hear it from

illmatic74
11-18-2008, 07:50 PM
just remember where you heard it first. lane will be a huge steal. you will hear his name lots on sundays. i dont know what that has to do with greene. they gave lane the ball, they went to bowl games. they dont 3-9 and lose to baylor. just for the record, i had him projected as a rd 3. but now i love him even more as a rd 6 or UFA.he can do lots of stuff that nfl backs have to do. weight is going to need to be controlled. i like him better than leasean mccoy. just remember where you heard it first. well you didnt hear it first. but im the only one youll hear it fromWow you proved my point. Your anaylsis is based entirely on size. Lane doesn't have the speed the agility or balance to play NFL HB. He will probably be a FB. Don't bring up Brandon Jacobs because Lane is nowhere near the athlete Jacobs is.

'cuse-213
11-18-2008, 07:53 PM
just remember where you heard it first. lane will be a huge steal. you will hear his name lots on sundays. i dont know what that has to do with greene. they gave lane the ball, they went to bowl games. they dont 3-9 and lose to baylor. just for the record, i had him projected as a rd 3. but now i love him even more as a rd 6 or UFA.he can do lots of stuff that nfl backs have to do. weight is going to need to be controlled. i like him better than leasean mccoy. just remember where you heard it first. well you didnt hear it first. but im the only one youll hear it from

Go away. Go get a beer or something, or whatevers under the kitchen sink. Just stop talking about football.

ElectricEye
11-18-2008, 07:56 PM
One day Starheather and his team of sumo wrestlers will conquer the earth. Until then, he will remain the most controversial user on NFLDraftCountdown...until he's banned for the tension that accumulates over time from calling more attention to himself than the actual prospects.

Loggerhead
11-18-2008, 08:17 PM
his norrisness has already been banned once. btw heather who is your team

illmatic74
11-18-2008, 08:18 PM
his norrisness has already been banned once. btw heather who is your teamI think it is the Steelers. Since he breaks down players on how well they would do against the Steelers.

nhlkdog411
11-20-2008, 07:19 PM
How are they "Brick **** houses" ?

Westbrook is 5'10 203lbs.

Addai is 214lbs.

Tomlinson is 221lbs.

If he shows up at the combine at 210-215lbs... there's not a huge gap (which would only be about 5-8lbs more than he looks right now..)

I understand what your saying, I just don't see the risk.

westbrook is really like 5'8'' but i see what your saying

Mr. Stiller
11-22-2008, 08:49 AM
I think it is the Steelers. Since he breaks down players on how well they would do against the Steelers.

If it is, he doesn't know ****... you should see the prospects he brought up as Starheather on another site.. and he used the same ******** logic.. and the prospects were terrible.

He can't be a fan of any team.

Maybe Atlanta.. I heard they have a decently athletic REALLY fat NT.