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sbh15
11-16-2008, 09:41 AM
Alright I have a couple things I was wondering and thought this would be a good place to begin.

I'm wondering why Percy Harvin is getting only a little love from every one, like late first round love instead of early first (granted, the senior year could help him greatly) considering he's just a faster Reggie Bush. I did a little work with some numbers and using the pace Percy Harvin is going at right now, I figured out what he would do with the same number of touches Bush had in his junior season. With 200 attempts, Percy Harvin would have 1,840 yards and 26 touchdowns rushing with 37 receptions for 588 yards and 8 touchdowns. Obviously I know things would change with a 200 carry workload, but I find it pretty impressive that he would out perform Bush with the same kind of touches. He's also listed as just 1 inch shorter and 8 pounds lighter than Bush, so I'm wondering, if the size is close, what's different with the game?

Next, I was wondering what anyone's heard about Elon wide receiver Terrell Hudgins. He think he holds just about every FCS record for receiving, and he's got the same size + speed combo as Marques Colston from what I understand.

Finally, is there any chance Brandon James get drafted (next year probably)? I know he's tiny and there probably isn't a whole lot of love for a punt/kick return specialist that can do little else, but he's so explosive and smart about how he fields punts (he cuts yards off of punts by fielding them on bounces, preventing extra roll). I'm a huge fan of his, so I'd love to see him get drafted when the time comes.

stephenson86
11-16-2008, 10:32 AM
brandon james could get drafted, could develop into a similar darren sproles, 3rd string RB pass catcher out of the backfield, it take him in the 6th or 7th

BigJohn98
11-16-2008, 11:03 AM
There's question marks about Harvin. Size, route running ability, ability to stay healthy.

skinzzfan25
11-16-2008, 11:08 AM
There's question marks about Harvin. Size, route running ability, ability to stay healthy.

And most importantly, being a Florida WR.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 11:42 AM
becuase hes small and injury prone and must play in space. hes going to have to be a wr and i dont know if he can beat nfl dbs physically in the pass game. i dont know if you can use a high pick on a dude whos main source of production is reverses and inside handoffs. he has value as a return man. also very very very injury prone. always missing games and whining about injuries. i could see the logic of using a rd 2 pick, but nothing higher althoough i mayself dont like him that much as i thinkhe could go out there two weeks make some plays then get hurt becuase he gets hurt always now and no one ever touches him

Staubach12
11-16-2008, 12:00 PM
First of all, statistics are not everything. You can have all the production in the world, but if you don't show the ability to play in the NFL, you won't be a high pick. Furthermore, you can't just pile stats on existing numbers for a projection like that. Speculation like that is far-fetched.

Also, Harvin is overrated by the casual fan as an NFL prospect. When Harvin has the ball in his hands, he's electric. Everyone knows that. However, the question here is not whether he can break a play open against some college team. The question is whether he can gain separation against an NFL corner. That's where his biggest concern comes in: route running. The Meyer system uses a lot of gimmicks to get Harvin the ball in space, and an NFL offense isn't going to provide him that luxury. So, he'll have to get a lot more experience at WR.

Can he be a good player in the long run? Yes. But is he going to be extremely successful in his first few years? Most likely not. Teams are going to work to get him the ball because of his ability, but he needs to be coached up in order to be an explosive and successful player on every play, not just the plays drawn up specifically drawn up for him.


As far as James goes, he has special teams value, but not much other than that IMO.

Solomon
11-16-2008, 01:40 PM
1. As you can tell from my sig I'm a huge Harvin fan and had Heisman expectations for him entering the year. That being said the questions that people brought up in this thread are legit. Can he stay healthy long term? Does he have one position to excel at or is he a WR/RB hybrid? Can he run routes well in a pro-style offense? He is a big threat guy with terrific speed, and his frame is filling out. If he stays for his senior year and answers some of those questions then I think he could be a top 10 pick in 2010. In 2009 however it seems apparent that Crabtree and Maclin definitly have an edge on him and Heyward-Bey might as well.

2. I love Hudgins and am a huge fan of his. I mentioned him somewhere on this site not too long ago. Problem is there have been lots of discrepencies regarding his speed. Some say he has 4.55 speed while others say he has 4.7 speed. He's going to need to break 4.6 for people to tkae him seriously as a WR prospect. Obviously there are also questions about his level of competition but he has been tearing up that level for years and still has alot to learn about the WR position since he only picked it up in college.

3. James is an incredible return man. Returners around the NFL have shown how important special teams can be so I wouldn't be surprised if a team with few holes decided to take a flier on him in the 5th or 6th rounds (maybe New England, Green Bay, Indy, San Diego, Pitt, the Giants or Carolina). Whenever he comes out that is.

sbh15
11-17-2008, 04:03 PM
One more... Why is Pat White being looked at as a WR? If he runs a great 40 time, couldn't he be Mike Vick 2? I may be missing something, but he is a solid decision maker and could develop into an electric player in the starting role with some time on the bench (and could give a team a 2nd quarterback which could do some interesting things). Of course he could, at the best, develop into another Seneca Wallace, but he's got relatively the same size as Vick and look at what Paul Rhodes (Auburn DC) said about him - a guy who coached against Vick and White:

"He’s a great decision-maker, and when he makes a decision and goes, he’s very, very fast. I think he’s a very good throwing quarterback," said Auburn defensive coordinator Paul Rhoads, who coached against White in three Backyard Brawls in his time at Pitt and also against former Virginia Tech quarterback Michael Vick.

"I think Pat White in college throws a better ball than Michael Vick did in college. Both present the same fear of them taking off and running at any time."

From what I understand it's likely the small size and inexperience in a pro-style offense, but as I said, could he not develop in the way that Josh Johnson should/will - have plenty of time on the bench learning the pro-style offense and then playing when the opportunity arises? Let me know...

FuzzyGopher
11-17-2008, 04:34 PM
I think Ted Ginn and Reggie Bush could help him. He could be one of those guys where you just try to get the ball into his hands and let him make plays. He's very athletic, let him return punts and kicks, run reverses, wild cat whatever it may be just let him make plays. With that said is he top 20 material? Hard to say. A mind blowing combine and workouts could help his stock but he has an uphill battle.

BuddyCHRIST
11-17-2008, 04:57 PM
Pat White is very thin and his offense is even more un preparing for a pro style team than Michael Vicks was. Vick wasn't a screaming success in the pro's either. Pat White doesn't have near the arm either, his accuracy might look better but that's more due to WVU's offense. He could be a decent backup whose running ability can do do things for you but he's such a great athlete that a switch to WR is in his best interest with ability for trick plays and what not.

Staubach12
11-17-2008, 06:21 PM
One more... Why is Pat White being looked at as a WR? If he runs a great 40 time, couldn't he be Mike Vick 2? I may be missing something, but he is a solid decision maker and could develop into an electric player in the starting role with some time on the bench (and could give a team a 2nd quarterback which could do some interesting things).

First of all, I think the NFL has become less enamored with the athlete QB. I think teams are looking for a guy who can throw first and foremost and if he can run, that's an extra.

As far as White goes, he's got a slew of problems to deal with on the NFL level. First of all, he plays in that WVU system which doesn't lend itself too well to evaluating NFL-type passers. His arm is average and his accuracy is spotty. Mechanics are... meh. He is, however, a fantastic athlete, and we all know he's explosive. So, his potential at his size is best served at WR.

Jimmy
11-18-2008, 08:04 AM
hudgins deserve some attention, ive seen a few games, and his speed really isnt a problem, he's a solid route runner, and people are correct in comparing him to colston

sbh15
11-20-2008, 07:55 PM
Want to get another one in here. What do you guys think about John Dwyer. Just saw him make a 50+ yard run look easy against Miami. Since he's a true sophomore, he obviously can't come out, but when he does, what do you project for him?

Solomon
11-21-2008, 12:36 PM
Want to get another one in here. What do you guys think about John Dwyer. Just saw him make a 50+ yard run look easy against Miami. Since he's a true sophomore, he obviously can't come out, but when he does, what do you project for him?

I'm really high on Dwyer actually. I think he's the best true soph RB prospect in the country. Big (a shade under 6 feet and 228 lbs), powerful, fast (rumoured 4.45 speed) with breakaway speed and good vision. He is certainly the best inside/outside runner of his class.

Right now the other top true soph RBs are Noel Devine, Kendall Hunter and Joe Mcknight (with Jahvid Best right behind them). All of them are blazing fast, very quick and a threat to score every time they touch the ball. However they're also all very small (McKnight being the biggest at 200 lbs) and don't have Dwyer's ability to run between the tackles.

I think his biggest competition for a first round spot will come from redshirt sophs like Moreno, McCoy or Evan Royster if they stick around another year. Or a redshirst freshman like John Clay if he declares for 2010.

Mr. Offseason
11-21-2008, 03:55 PM
1. As you can tell from my sig I'm a huge Harvin fan and had Heisman expectations for him entering the year. That being said the questions that people brought up in this thread are legit. Can he stay healthy long term? Does he have one position to excel at or is he a WR/RB hybrid? Can he run routes well in a pro-style offense? He is a big threat guy with terrific speed, and his frame is filling out. If he stays for his senior year and answers some of those questions then I think he could be a top 10 pick in 2010. In 2009 however it seems apparent that Crabtree and Maclin definitly have an edge on him and Heyward-Bey might as well.

2. I love Hudgins and am a huge fan of his. I mentioned him somewhere on this site not too long ago. Problem is there have been lots of discrepencies regarding his speed. Some say he has 4.55 speed while others say he has 4.7 speed. He's going to need to break 4.6 for people to tkae him seriously as a WR prospect. Obviously there are also questions about his level of competition but he has been tearing up that level for years and still has alot to learn about the WR position since he only picked it up in college.

3. James is an incredible return man. Returners around the NFL have shown how important special teams can be so I wouldn't be surprised if a team with few holes decided to take a flier on him in the 5th or 6th rounds (maybe New England, Green Bay, Indy, San Diego, Pitt, the Giants or Carolina). Whenever he comes out that is.

great post. i agree with everything you said here actually. nicely done.

First of all, I think the NFL has become less enamored with the athlete QB. I think teams are looking for a guy who can throw first and foremost and if he can run, that's an extra.

As far as White goes, he's got a slew of problems to deal with on the NFL level. First of all, he plays in that WVU system which doesn't lend itself too well to evaluating NFL-type passers. His arm is average and his accuracy is spotty. Mechanics are... meh. He is, however, a fantastic athlete, and we all know he's explosive. So, his potential at his size is best served at WR.

staubach12 i agree 100% with this. very good post.

LonghornsLegend
11-21-2008, 05:34 PM
brandon james could get drafted, could develop into a similar darren sproles, 3rd string RB pass catcher out of the backfield, it take him in the 6th or 7th

Guys like him will always be in demand, speed rules in the NFL now, if your fast enough they will find ways to get the ball in your hands...You see the Wildcat formation already turning into a copycat league, pretty soon teams will just be getting speed players on the field however they can even if it means no true position.

CashmoneyDrew
11-21-2008, 06:19 PM
If Brandon James came out this year, the Titans would probably use a 3rd rounder on him.

Menardo75
11-21-2008, 06:36 PM
If Brandon James came out this year, the Titans would probably use a 3rd rounder on him.

If he is a runningback I think that means he goes in the second round.

CashmoneyDrew
11-21-2008, 06:51 PM
If he is a runningback I think that means he goes in the second round.

Ha! True. I just figured third would be a little higher than where most people would think he would go, and I figure the Titans might get a compensatory 3rd rounder or two and could afford to use one on a kick returner.

Menardo75
11-21-2008, 06:55 PM
Ha! True. I just figured third would be a little higher than where most people would think he would go, and I figure the Titans might get a compensatory 3rd rounder or two and could afford to use one on a kick returner.

I know man I just think though that if he is on the board in round two, the Titans can't help but pull the trigger.

CashmoneyDrew
11-21-2008, 06:57 PM
I know man I just think though that if he is on the board in round two, the Titans can't help but pull the trigger.

Wouldn't surprise me at all with Reinfeldt pulling the trigger. It wouldn't be a Titans draft without a high runningback draft pick. Just give me James this year Reinfeldt. Pretty please!

Menardo75
11-21-2008, 07:00 PM
Wouldn't surprise me at all with Reinfeldt pulling the trigger. It wouldn't be a Titans draft without a high runningback draft pick. Just give me James this year Reinfeldt. Pretty please!

Don't worry you will get him. Is Carr returning kicks for you guys?

CashmoneyDrew
11-21-2008, 07:06 PM
Don't worry you will get him. Is Carr returning kicks for you guys?

Yeah, he's pretty good on kickoffs. He doesn't seem to do well with punts though.

Menardo75
11-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Yeah, he's pretty good on kickoffs. He doesn't seem to do well with punts though.

Yeah that's how he was at BSU. Him and Brandon James could make a sick nasty return duo, or Percy as long as we are talking Florida guys.