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WeAre31
11-18-2008, 06:55 PM
Whats up guys? My question for the board is what is the general consensus on where the PSU guys will go in this draft? The team is having a great year but there really aren't any stars or first round types in the senior class.

So where are we thinking these guys end up?

OT Gerald Cadogan
OG Richie Ohrenberger
OC AQ Shipley
WR Derrick Williams
WR Deon Butler
WR Jordan Norwood

DE Josh Gaines
CB Lydell Sargaent
CB Tony Davis
S Anthony Scirotto

Thanks in advance guys

BeerBaron
11-18-2008, 06:59 PM
I would say not much more than mid-rounders for any of them with the exception being Derrick Williams. I think he has a shot to go as early as the 2nd round thanks to his return ability.

SMoore
11-18-2008, 07:00 PM
I really like Cadogan. I don't know what his stock is like, probably late rounds I would guess. But the guy is really athletic and it looks like he could put on more weight while maintaining the athleticism.

STARHEATHER
11-18-2008, 07:00 PM
williams lookslike a second rd value. good athleticism. good value added skills as a return man.just not as polished or productive as a receiver as some of the others. the rest thanks but no thanks. there is a player not on your list who looks to me the best nfl prospect. jared odrick dt. i see him as an elite 3-4 end prospect.

SMoore
11-18-2008, 07:02 PM
williams lookslike a second rd value. good athleticism. good value added skills as a return man.just not as polished or productive as a receiver as some of the others. the rest thanks but no thanks. there is a player not on your list who looks to me the best nfl prospect. jared odrick dt. i see him as an elite 3-4 end prospect.

Right on with Odrick.
Really strong and amazingly quick for his size. Plays intense too. Makes big plays every game it seems like. Him and Maybin make that defense.

STARHEATHER
11-18-2008, 07:08 PM
he reminds me of aaron smith. no onehas ever reminded me of aaron smith

underscore
11-18-2008, 07:18 PM
None of the defensive guys you list have an NFL future. The underclassmen are a different story.

On offense, none are first-day guys IMO. Williams still can't put two solid back to back games together. Butler and Norwood are too undersized (though Norwood could latch on if he can prove he can return kicks). Shipley has talent, but is too undersized. Cadogan has the size, but not necessarily the drive. Ohrnberger is a bit of a wildcard as a late rounder.

SMoore
11-18-2008, 07:24 PM
None of the defensive guys you list have an NFL future. The underclassmen are a different story.

On offense, none are first-day guys IMO. Williams still can't put two solid back to back games together. Butler and Norwood are too undersized (though Norwood could latch on if he can prove he can return kicks). Shipley has talent, but is too undersized. Cadogan has the size, but not necessarily the drive. Ohrnberger is a bit of a wildcard as a late rounder.

I'm guessing you're saying they won't succeed but I think Scirotto could get drafted. Davis and Sargeant have outside shots. I think if Davis has any shot it's at safety not corner.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-18-2008, 07:24 PM
Shipley could go 2nd-4th round. He's a finalist for the Remington award, has a ton of experience and is a very atheltic center. He'll be at the senior bowl

BeerBaron
11-18-2008, 07:24 PM
Scirotto has the gutsy, leader type thing going for him. I think he could get drafted late and be someone's special teams demon.

SMoore
11-18-2008, 07:27 PM
Shipley could go 2nd-4th round. He's a finalist for the Remington award, has a ton of experience and is a very atheltic center. He'll be at the senior bowl

I don't see him going that high at all. Undersized and it's not like he is amazing at everything else. Great college c, solid backup in the pros IMO. He'll stick somewhere for a while.

underscore
11-18-2008, 09:04 PM
"Scirotto has the gutsy, leader type thing going for him."

But he's not a good football player. Poor defender, even worse in run support.

BeerBaron
11-18-2008, 09:15 PM
"Scirotto has the gutsy, leader type thing going for him."

But he's not a good football player. Poor defender, even worse in run support.

OSU fan? maybe....Michigan St? Purdue?

MaxV
11-18-2008, 09:38 PM
I think Deon Butler is an underrated prospect.

Sure he's undersized, but that's about the only weakness he has.

Great speed, good route-running and catches everything that comes his way.

I think he can succeed in the NFL.

BeerBaron
11-18-2008, 09:40 PM
I think Deon Butler is an underrated prospect.

Sure he's undersized, but that's about the only weakness he has.

Great speed, good route-running and catches everything that comes his way.

I think he can succeed in the NFL.

Its strange.....but 3 of the 4 PSU all time leading receivers are active on the team right now, and whats weird is that the "worst" one of the bunch is the one who's going to be drafted in the 2nd/3rd round while the others prolly won't be drafted at all. Very strange if you ask me...

MaxV
11-18-2008, 09:44 PM
Its strange.....but 3 of the 4 PSU all time leading receivers are active on the team right now, and whats weird is that the "worst" one of the bunch is the one who's going to be drafted in the 2nd/3rd round while the others prolly won't be drafted at all. Very strange if you ask me...

I think Butler will get drafted. He has tools. A guy with 4.4 speed and great hands is a legit prospect.

Norwood on the other hand, probably not. He's just too small and too slow.

captainjack27
11-18-2008, 11:36 PM
williams lookslike a second rd value. good athleticism. good value added skills as a return man.just not as polished or productive as a receiver as some of the others. the rest thanks but no thanks. there is a player not on your list who looks to me the best nfl prospect. jared odrick dt. i see him as an elite 3-4 end prospect.


Yea but Odricks not leaving

captainjack27
11-18-2008, 11:37 PM
I think Butler will get drafted. He has tools. A guy with 4.4 speed and great hands is a legit prospect.

Norwood on the other hand, probably not. He's just too small and too slow.

I could see noorwood drafted very late...but not likely

captainjack27
11-18-2008, 11:39 PM
Scirotto has the gutsy, leader type thing going for him. I think he could get drafted late and be someone's special teams demon.

He doesn't have the tools to make it in the NFL though. Good college player...could get signed as a UFA...but thats all I see.

captainjack27
11-18-2008, 11:40 PM
None of the defensive guys you list have an NFL future. The underclassmen are a different story.

On offense, none are first-day guys IMO. Williams still can't put two solid back to back games together. Butler and Norwood are too undersized (though Norwood could latch on if he can prove he can return kicks). Shipley has talent, but is too undersized. Cadogan has the size, but not necessarily the drive. Ohrnberger is a bit of a wildcard as a late rounder.


I think Lydell Seargeant has a shot at being a 5th-6th rounder...but his pro day will need to be big.

captainjack27
11-18-2008, 11:43 PM
Whats up guys? My question for the board is what is the general consensus on where the PSU guys will go in this draft? The team is having a great year but there really aren't any stars or first round types in the senior class.

So where are we thinking these guys end up?

OT Gerald Cadogan
OG Richie Ohrenberger
OC AQ Shipley
WR Derrick Williams
WR Deon Butler
WR Jordan Norwood

DE Josh Gaines
CB Lydell Sargaent
CB Tony Davis
S Anthony Scirotto

Thanks in advance guys

Williams is probably the only day 1 guy. Could sneak in the second round thanks to the return ability and speed. The combine coudl help as well. More likely a 3rd-4th round guy. Butler IMO will have the best pro career out of all of the people on that list. Won't get drafted till late, but I think can surprise a lot of people.

DeathbyStat
11-19-2008, 06:18 AM
For what its worth....I've had penn state season tickets for last 4 years

OT Gerald Cadogan-4-6 Round

OG Richie Ohrenberger-Undrafted

OC AQ Shipley-4-6 Round

WR Derrick Williams-3-6 Round

WR Deon Butler-4-7 Round

WR Jordan Norwood-Undrafted

DE Josh Gaines-5-7 Round

CB Lydell Sargaent-Undrafted

CB Tony Davis-5-7 Round

S Anthony Scirotto 4-7 Round

All late round to undrafted players execept for Wiliams who could sneak higher because of kick return ablility. Deon Butler is my sleeper of this group I think he will be a better pro than Williams.

As far a prospects the future actually looks brighter than the present with Evan Royster, Aaron Maybin, Maurice Evans, Sean Lee(if his knee heals), AJ Wallace, Stephon Green and Stefen Wisniewski

ElectricEye
11-19-2008, 06:43 AM
I wouldn't want to touch Derrick Williams on the first day, and I probably wouldn't take him at all. He's just really not that good. He was so explosive as a freshman, but he just never developed or got past the injury problems. It's kind of sad. He has comparable talent to Jeremy Maclin and Percy Harvin, similar skillset too...but he still plays he did his Sophomore year and he probably isn't going to be much more than what he is at this point.

Mr. Stiller
11-19-2008, 08:21 AM
I don't get the bashing on Shipleys size.

The guy pretty much made Terrance Taylor a non-factor (Who was rated the Top DT by most places).

The only game he struggled or had trouble all season was against Iowa, and Mitch King is a beast, I don't know why he's rated so low.

But other than King no one has really had their way with Shipley. He probably can't get much bigger than 305.. but he plays with great awareness of Leverage and solid technique. He may never be a great starter, but I'd have to say he's better than some starters currently in the league.

MaxV
11-19-2008, 09:16 AM
For what its worth....I've had penn state season tickets for last 4 years

OT Gerald Cadogan-4-6 Round

OG Richie Ohrenberger-Undrafted

OC AQ Shipley-4-6 Round

WR Derrick Williams-3-6 Round

WR Deon Butler-4-7 Round

WR Jordan Norwood-Undrafted

DE Josh Gaines-5-7 Round

CB Lydell Sargaent-Undrafted

CB Tony Davis-5-7 Round

S Anthony Scirotto 4-7 Round

All late round to undrafted players execept for Wiliams who could sneak higher because of kick return ablility. Deon Butler is my sleeper of this group I think he will be a better pro than Williams.

As far a prospects the future actually looks brighter than the present with Evan Royster, Aaron Maybin, Maurice Evans, Sean Lee(if his knee heals), AJ Wallace, Stephon Green and Stefen Wisniewski

You forgot to mention Jared Odrick, who might be the best NFL prospect on Penn State's roster.

TE Andrew Quarless is very talented as well, although he's an underachiever and a terrible blocker.

DeathbyStat
11-19-2008, 11:15 AM
You forgot to mention Jared Odrick, who might be the best NFL prospect on Penn State's roster.

TE Andrew Quarless is very talented as well, although he's an underachiever and a terrible blocker.

Yeah I forgot about Odrick he has had a great season when Iowa aren't holding him

MaxV
11-24-2008, 08:53 PM
Here's my ranking of PSU prospects:

Seniors:

1. Derrick Williams (WR)
2. Gerald Cadogan (OT)
3. AQ Shipley (OC)
4. Deon Butler (WR)
5. Anthony Scirrotto (FS)
6. Lydell Sargeant (CB)
7. Rich Ornberger (OG)
8. Tony Davis (CB/FS)
9. Jordan Norwood (WR)
10. Tyrell Sales (LB)


Draft-eligible underclassmen:

1. Jared Odrick (DT/DE)
2. Navarro Bowman (OLB)
3. Aaron Maybin (DE/OLB)
4. Maurice Evans (DE)
5. Sean Lee (OLB)
6. Evan Royster (RB)
7. Andrew Quarless (TE)
8. AJ Wallace (CB)
9. Dennis Landolt (OT)
10. Pat Devlin (QB)

Pokeys
11-24-2008, 08:55 PM
Penn State is a great school for busts. Just ask Jimmy Kennedy who got cut today from his 1238948 team.

STARHEATHER
11-24-2008, 09:15 PM
maybin could be a rd 1 this year. although i still like odrick the best

Sniper
11-24-2008, 09:18 PM
1. Derrick Williams (WR)
2. Gerald Cadogan (OT)
3. AQ Shipley (OC)


My hatred of Williams is well, well, well-documented, but I really think you're selling Shipley short. I thought he was tremendous when I focused on him vs. Terrance Taylor, and I was impressed with him a couple other times.

I'm a Cadogan fan as well.

MaxV
11-24-2008, 09:28 PM
Well, this is based mostly on NFL upside, more then college production.

Williams may have had a disappointing college career, but he certainly has more NFL potential then any PSU senior.

Sniper
11-24-2008, 09:46 PM
Well, this is based mostly on NFL upside, more then college production.

Williams may have had a disappointing college career, but he certainly has more NFL potential then any PSU senior.

Even Shipley?

Ozzy
11-24-2008, 09:57 PM
Andrew Quarless (TE)
8. AJ Wallace (CB)Those two players are such big disappointments. Quarless seems like he has fell off the face of the earth, maybe they do not use him correctly or is in the dog house, whatever it is he has not lived up to his potential that he showed as a freshman. And Wallace, ehhh, what a waste of talent so far.


Gerald Cadogan I like as well, guy just plays good football, however I must say he looks a little bottom heavy and appears to have pretty skinny arms for a offensive tackle. Nonetheless, good player...

MaxV
11-24-2008, 10:04 PM
Well, among seniors, I think the top 4 on my list are about even (yes, including Butler).

All 4 of them are talented but flawed prospects.

- Derrick Williams has explosive speed, quickness and solid hands but questionable route running.

- Gerald Cadogan has good size, technique and athleticism but is more of a finesse blocker who doesn't really play with much of a mean streak.

- AQ Shipley is a strong OC prospect who run-blocks very well and is a decent pass-blocker. However, he doesn't have great size nor athleticism.

- Deon Butler is a WR prospect with very good vertical speed and GREAT hands. He's also a solid route-runner. But his size is a weakness.

Sniper
11-24-2008, 10:05 PM
Derrick Williams has solid hands?

MaxV
11-24-2008, 10:12 PM
Those two players are such big disappointments. Quarless seems like he has fell off the face of the earth, maybe they do not use him correctly or is in the dog house, whatever it is he has not lived up to his potential that he showed as a freshman. And Wallace, ehhh, what a waste of talent so far.


Gerald Cadogan I like as well, guy just plays good football, however I must say he looks a little bottom heavy and appears to have pretty skinny arms for a offensive tackle. Nonetheless, good player...

Yeah, so far Quarless and Wallace haven't lived up to their high potential, but they do have 1 more year to prove themselves.

Quarless has been in JoePa's doghouse for various reasons. His off-field antics are one thing, but he's also a mediocre blocker. And his blocking problems are often due to poor effort, which certainly doesn't help his cause with JoePa.

Plus, he's no stranger to dropped balls.

With his size (6'-5" 250lbs) and speed (reportedly 4.5 in the 40), he has everything to be among the elite TE prospects, and maybe even as a WR prospect. But his game doesn't match his physical tools.

With Wallace, it's a similar story, although he has better work-ethic and attitude then Quarless. Wallace's problems so far have been tendency to bite on fakes and several injuries.

If these 2 get their act together next season, they would certainly be among the most intriguing prospects. Physical tools are there.

MaxV
11-24-2008, 10:14 PM
Derrick Williams has solid hands?

His hands aren't bad. I've seen him make some great catches. Of course, I've also seen him drop passes, but I don't think it's his biggest weakness.

Route-running is his main problem.

OaklandRaider56
11-24-2008, 10:31 PM
I'm high on Cadogan, he's a good athlete for an offensive lineman and a very intelligent player. If he can bulk up some, I can see him starting in the NFL.

bruschis4all
11-25-2008, 06:38 AM
I'm high on Cadogan, he's a good athlete for an offensive lineman and a very intelligent player. If he can bulk up some, I can see him starting in the NFL.


Not sure if you saw it or not. But, one week on PSU football story they
ran a special on him. He actually ran intermediate hurdles in hs. 300M
I think. You're right about bulking up. But, he's a smart kid. Won't get
in trouble off the field. If he applies himself, he has the ability to play
at the next level.

eaglesalltheway
11-25-2008, 07:51 AM
maybin could be a rd 1 this year. although i still like odrick the best

I find that hard to beleive. he is really undersized for a DE, and isn't overly strong to help compensate for it. He has good strength, but not near enough to be a DE unless he gains a ton of weight. HE may have to switch to LB in the NFL, most likely a rush OLB in a 3-4, but I am a PSU fan and I don't see him going in the first round, even next year if he stays and produces well.

eaglesalltheway
11-25-2008, 07:53 AM
I think Evan Royster could be a very solid NFL RB. He has solid speed and is quick and agile, but he also has very good power. He always has one rush per quarter that leaves me baffled as to why he wasn't tackled. He has great vision and is just an overall solid runner. He is a good receiver as well. I think if he declares next year, if he continues to progress, he could go in the top two rounds, maybe even the first round.

underscore
11-27-2008, 09:11 PM
I still don't see how people say Williams is a poor route runner.

His biggest issue is consistency. He'll make great catches but miss easy ones. He'll blow by a fast guy, but get caught by a slow guy.


Quarless is a great NFL talent. But he's a bonehead. That'll probably keep him from any NFL chances.

MaxV
11-27-2008, 09:47 PM
I still don't see how people say Williams is a poor route runner.

His biggest issue is consistency. He'll make great catches but miss easy ones. He'll blow by a fast guy, but get caught by a slow guy.


Quarless is a great NFL talent. But he's a bonehead. That'll probably keep him from any NFL chances.

You're right, consistency is Derrick's biggest issue and that includes his route running.

Many times he makes quick cuts and fakes and beat the DB, but other times he has trouble get open.

Same goes for his hands. He can make a great catch and drop an easy one.

underscore
11-28-2008, 06:50 AM
I think Evan Royster could be a very solid NFL RB. He has solid speed and is quick and agile, but he also has very good power. He always has one rush per quarter that leaves me baffled as to why he wasn't tackled. He has great vision and is just an overall solid runner. He is a good receiver as well. I think if he declares next year, if he continues to progress, he could go in the top two rounds, maybe even the first round.

Sometimes it seems Royster second-guesses his vision though. He needs to rely on his instincts more.

He also needs to prove he's durable. Not that he has shown signs of not being durable, but he has never been asked to carry the workload in a game.