PDA

View Full Version : Why do the Raiders continually ruin player development?


LonghornsLegend
11-19-2008, 09:16 PM
Don't have any reason why they are dead set at playing Michael Bush at FB, but they insist on it:

"I kind of don't really want to talk about it or say nothing wrong," Bush waid.. But we did some (fullback) today. There's nothing I can do. I told (Tom Cable) no the first time, you know? I guess it's either I do something or I don't. I don't know. It is what it is. Do I like it? Do I want to play there? Do I think I'm a fullback? No."

Bush has been asked to play fullback more than once. It was first mentioned when Oren O'Neal was hurt in August. The talk picked up more when Justin Griffith went down for the season Oct. 26.

Bush said he's "Never had the kind of mentality to go run into a wall."

Nevertheless, he's going along with the plan.

"I just want people to know what position I play," Bush said. "I'm not a fullback. I think it's a waste of my talent. I'm not trying to be any negative person that don't want to help the team. I'm doing it so they can't say I'm not helping this team. What can you say?"


cont'd
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/raiders/archives/017191.html



Apoligies to any Raiders fans, but this is ridiculous, he's already shown he can be a great RB earlier this season and before his injury he was a predicted 1st round RB...I can understand if they are doing it just to help the team, but if you just wanted a lead blocker you should of traded him to the Chargers instead of wasting potential at FB.


Had he ended up in San Diego he would of flourished, now he's just going to rot on that team when they should be finding ways to get the ball to him more for a team that can't find ways to score...It's not just Bush either, Oakland hasn't been effective at developing players in forever, at some point it's got to stop.

619
11-19-2008, 09:44 PM
Damn, I was just notified of these plans. He's in a bad situation as our third string back where it still looks like he can only contribute minimally to the offense especially with McFadden now expected to be back to full health.

If the front office sincerely insists on making this a permanent move you can pretty much forget it as like he pointed out he just doesn't have that mentality. In numerous occasions in training camp would Kiffin attempt to instill some toughness in his running style but that of course failed. He is what he is and that is a fleet-footed big man who adds versatility as both a runner and pass receiver.

That second day pick we would've received from the Chargers would be really useful now. :(

CC.SD
11-19-2008, 10:06 PM
Wow, even objectively, just from reading those quotes, that sounds like a player who has seriously lost hope.

I freaking wish we had him.

619
11-19-2008, 10:10 PM
Wow, even objectively, just from reading those quotes, that sounds like a player who has seriously lost hope.

I freaking wish we had him.

Yeah, that's exactly it. I feel for him because he's too talented to be a third stringer or to play the fullback position. He needs a change of scenery bad. I hope we grant him the opportunity to find a new home in the offseason. Sad, sad time to be associated with this dysfunctional franchise.

ElectricEye
11-19-2008, 10:11 PM
Sounds like a pretty bad situation. I really like what Bush showed in limited action. His size might lend itself well to the fullback position, but his skillset doesn't. Just doesn't look like a lead blocker to me. In this is a permanent move, it's going to be a real waste. Could create some matchup problems every now and again, but still not worth it.

Race for the Heisman
11-19-2008, 10:20 PM
I'd reimburse the Raiders with a fourth for him.

doingthisinsteadofwork
11-19-2008, 10:28 PM
Did you seriously as that question?Is it not obvious?

Here it is:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w205/bradcymru/aldavis.jpg

ElectricEye
11-19-2008, 10:31 PM
Al Davis is the Freddy Krueger of the NFL. On second thought, Al Davis is Freddy Krueger.

NIN1984
11-19-2008, 10:44 PM
Hopefully no free agents sign with the Raiders and all the rookies refuse to play in Oakland...

and maybe Al will finally realize something is wrong

yourfavestoner
11-19-2008, 10:49 PM
Sounds to me like Michael Bush is just a ***** who is afraid of contact. There's nothing more irritating than a big back who plays soft.

Giantsfan1080
11-19-2008, 10:59 PM
Thanks for giving us Tollefson and Boothe. You don't realize it now but it helps us, the Giants out a ton.

PACKmanN
11-19-2008, 11:05 PM
Thanks for giving us Tollefson and Bush. You don't realize it now but it helps us, the Giants out a ton.

http://www.packers.com/draft/2006/davetollefson.phtml

TT biggest mistake for his draft pick. He was beasting it for the Packers before being placed on waivers and taken away.

regoob2
11-19-2008, 11:11 PM
I feel really bad for all the Raiders players. The day they're drafted they know they'll never be a winner. It's kinda sad.

ChezPower4
11-19-2008, 11:14 PM
Poor guy, you have to feel for someone who's being forced to do something they don't want to do at all.....

Giantsfan1080
11-19-2008, 11:21 PM
http://www.packers.com/draft/2006/davetollefson.phtml

TT biggest mistake for his draft pick. He was beasting it for the Packers before being placed on waivers and taken away.

He's been pretty good for us. If Osi was still in we wouldn't have seen him as much but he's been a very nice addition to our pass rush. He's going to stick around and will be a key player on our line for he next couple of years. I meant Kevin Boothe not Bush as our other player. He's been a good depth player and came in and played well at RT the other night.

locseti
11-19-2008, 11:29 PM
Sounds to me like Michael Bush is just a ***** who is afraid of contact. There's nothing more irritating than a big back who plays soft.

Yes, this kind of pisses me off that he is being such a ***** about it. I'm about 99 percent sure they're not trying to convert him to fullback, but with both Oren O'neal AND Justin Griffith out for the year, we need help extremely bad at this position. Contrast Bush's attitude with the attitude of Earnest Graham, who when BJ Askew was lost to injury, stepped up and volunteered to put in work at fullback. And with McFadden and Fargas healthy, this is the best way for Bush to get some playing time. Bush is weak for not jumping at this opportunity.

CC.SD
11-19-2008, 11:44 PM
Now that I've thought about it they can't really be converting him to a full fledged blocker, this is basically akin to asking him to be the short yardage back, a pounder. At least he'll be getting on the field.

ElectricEye
11-20-2008, 12:08 AM
I agree with the sentiment he shouldn't be whining about it even though it's probably not the best use for him or for the team either probably if they're asking him to block.

Menardo75
11-20-2008, 01:19 AM
This would not be the best position for him. At the end of the day though play football and help your team out. Lord knows they need all of it they can get.

Zyro_1014
11-20-2008, 01:26 AM
This would not be the best position for him. At the end of the day though play football and help your team out. Lord knows they need all of it they can get.

i agree, hes a very good running back and he will help the team one day with his play there.

but right now it pisses me off that he wont do something that a coach asked him to do. Sure, its not his position but its the simple fact that it might help the team.

Jimmy
11-20-2008, 05:53 AM
i love playing in a 3 team division.

UK_Cheesehead
11-20-2008, 06:29 AM
Why's he bitchin about it? Step up for the team and play while the guys who usually play FB are injured.

ChezPower4
11-20-2008, 06:50 AM
i love playing in a 3 team division.

Me too :D..... thanks Detriot

LonghornsLegend
11-20-2008, 08:21 AM
but right now it pisses me off that he wont do something that a coach asked him to do. Sure, its not his position but its the simple fact that it might help the team.

That's true, but at the same time, why would you want a guy playing FB who is saying "Never had the kind of mentality to go run into a wall"...Your running game is going to suffer if you have a FB who thinks that way, if don't have a guy who wants to blow everything up you might as well not use anyone because it will end up hurting the team more then anything.


Besides that he's never really had much work at it, he runs like a small back, was drafted as a Rb and worked all this time to finally get healthy enough to come back, he plays a good game earlier now they want him to be a FB so I can sense his frustration...That and he probably knows by now how dysfunctional the Raiders are so even as a player your taking everything they tell you with a grain of salt.

DeathbyStat
11-20-2008, 08:23 AM
Don't have any reason why they are dead set at playing Michael Bush at FB, but they insist on it:


http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/raiders/archives/017191.html



Apoligies to any Raiders fans, but this is ridiculous, he's already shown he can be a great RB earlier this season and before his injury he was a predicted 1st round RB...I can understand if they are doing it just to help the team, but if you just wanted a lead blocker you should of traded him to the Chargers instead of wasting potential at FB.


Had he ended up in San Diego he would of flourished, now he's just going to rot on that team when they should be finding ways to get the ball to him more for a team that can't find ways to score...It's not just Bush either, Oakland hasn't been effective at developing players in forever, at some point it's got to stop.


I wish the steelers would trade for Bush

santeria531
11-20-2008, 11:42 AM
I definitely have pity for any player on the Raiders that's talented b/c their skills WILL be wasted.... With that said, I never really watched Bush in college, but even I know he isn't near as physical as his size would indicate. He is a big back with the mindset of a scat back. I look back to what the Jaguars did with Greg Jones. Jones was a HB at Florida State and now plays FB for the Jags and does a damn good job too. But, Jones is actually big AND physical. I feel bad for Bush b/c he could do good things with any other team as a 2nd option/short-yardage back, the Raiders are just too stubborn to see that.

bantx
11-20-2008, 12:12 PM
I wish the steelers would trade for Bush

That would make no sense at all...

Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, and Mewelde Moore. What would he do there?

619
11-20-2008, 12:21 PM
That would make no sense at all...

Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, and Mewelde Moore. What would he do there?

The new Bettis over there ? :rolleyes:

Oddly enough they both have had very similar issues early in their career. Maybe when he finally gets dealt or released he too explodes onto the scene in his new home. That would suck for us Raider fans to see yet again another great talent let go only to find big success elsewhere.

bantx
11-20-2008, 12:23 PM
The new Bettis over there ? :rolleyes:

Oddly enough they both have had very similar issues early in their career. Maybe when he finally gets dealt or released he too explodes onto the scene in his new home. That would suck for us Raider fans to see yet again another great talent let go only to find big success elsewhere.

Yeah, Chargers could offer less in the off season and get him, he would be great in the position and situation he would be in. It would be nice if that would happen lol

captainjack27
11-20-2008, 12:24 PM
Sounds to me like Michael Bush is just a ***** who is afraid of contact. There's nothing more irritating than a big back who plays soft.

That doesn't change the fact that they are wasting his talent at RB. He may be soft, but the raiders are still dumb.

captainjack27
11-20-2008, 12:25 PM
I wish the steelers would trade for Bush

Why? The steelers are fine at RB with Parker Moore Russell and Mendenhall will be back. The steelers don't need him.

Ward
11-20-2008, 01:05 PM
My feelings are that he's right to question this decision from the coaches, because they deserve to be questioned. However, this is a chance to get on the field. Step up, maybe learn something about the position, do what you have to do for now, and make the best of it. IMO he shouldn't have made this public. If his goal was to make it widely known so that if he hits FA he'll still have value as a HB, then it makes no sense. GMs know he's a running back, and that the Raiders are crazy. GMs will also know if a guy is willing to do whatever it takes to help his team win. If he's explaining it to the fans, that is also a dumb excuse. The fans know everything they need to know concerning how the Raiders handle players. No one in the black hole is going to go "Hey, why is Bush at FB? He must like playing there. What an idiot."

Donno
11-21-2008, 02:51 AM
Dude the 1 2 punch McFadden and Bush have is awesome and could turn elite, forget Fargas they should trade him hes kind of just an average guy wasting Bush's 2nd string spot. I am so scared they are gonna trade Bush when they need to trade Fargas.

Gay Ork Wang
11-21-2008, 06:14 AM
I feel really bad for all the Raiders players. The day they're drafted they know they'll never be a winner. It's kinda sad.
Aso is!!!1

ChezPower4
11-21-2008, 07:00 AM
That would make no sense at all...

Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, and Mewelde Moore. What would he do there?

that's right he'd end up in the same situation that he's all ready in.

PACKmanN
11-21-2008, 10:03 AM
Houston needs to take him away from the Raiders.

RaiderNation
11-21-2008, 09:58 PM
Good and bad news IMO.

Good:I mean he barely gets to see the field with McFadden and Fargas starting over him at RB so being a FB will get him more play time, he can be used for catching and blocking and we will have 2 good running threats on the field almost every play.

Bad: He will be one hell of a RB I think in the next few years. He has size, speed and hands to be a productive back. He was almost traded to the Chargers ( who can really use him since LT is getting old). So he might get delt this off season( I hope not), so we might be trying to find a way to use him some where else.

Solution to the problem?
Trade Fargas. Hes 28 or 29 now, he is injury prone and we might get good value from him. I could see a team trading a 4th or 5th maybe for him( maybe the Texans, Steelers, Eagles, Bengals, Patriots???). A McFadden/Bush combo should be deadly if they can live up to their hype. Both are young and complement each other good.

619
11-21-2008, 10:13 PM
Solution to the problem?
Trade Fargas. Hes 28 or 29 now, he is injury prone and we might get good value from him. I could see a team trading a 4th or 5th maybe for him( maybe the Texans, Steelers, Eagles, Bengals, Patriots???). A McFadden/Bush combo should be deadly if they can live up to their hype. Both are young and complement each other good.

I too prefer the McFadden / Bush combo to the McFadden / Fargas one for the next few years. I heart Huggy Bear but his new contract will hold up the development of a very promising complementary back in Bush who is ready to contribute on a more consistent basis to this offense.

One year wonder ? Fargas still must be prove the worth of his new contract and I'm just not sure he can do so going forward considering his age and the forthcoming emergence of Run DMC. Still a lot remains to be seen in this situation but it certainly isn't looking all that good.