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View Full Version : Top 25 Rookies after 11 Weeks


BmoreBlackByrdz
11-22-2008, 08:45 PM
A couple thoughts of mine- Felix Jones is a bit too high, since he is out for the year and missed like 5 games before this he should be alot lower. Jake Long and DeSean Jackson should switch. Chris Horton is a bit too low and Eddie Royal is too high. Also, wheres Brandon Flowers? He's played pretty solid.

Top 25 Impact Rookies (Scouts Inc.)
No. Rookie
1. QB Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons
Franchise quarterbacks are hard to find, but the Falcons have found their future star. Ryan is a smart player who has done a nice job making decisions when attacking the opposing team's back end. He has shown great maturity and flashes of a big-time arm, but he needs to play with more consistency on the road.

2. RB Chris Johnson, Tennessee Titans
He has been very impressive as a change-of-pace back opposite RB LenDale White. Johnson is a very versatile player who contributes in sub and regular packages. He is a powerful inside runner with the speed and quickness to get on the edge of the defense as an outside runner. He's an explosive playmaker who has been one the major keys to the Titans' success.

3. LB Jerod Mayo, New England Patriots
He has been a highly productive three-down player in the Patriots' system. Mayo has natural athletic skills, range and a knack for being around the football both in the box and out in space. He was all over the field in Week 11 against the Jets and he has easily positioned himself to be the defensive rookie of the year.

4. WR Eddie Royal, Denver Broncos
He has done a great job of giving the Broncos a solid No. 2 receiver opposite WR Brandon Marshall. Royal is a smart, instinctive player who understands route concepts, has very good functional play speed and tremendous hands. He knows how to get open and has added value as a dynamic return specialist.

5. RB Matt Forte, Chicago Bears
He has been a versatile three-down player who has natural vision and instincts. Forte has the speed to press downhill holes with good lateral quickness, balance and control. He has been a key player for the Bears' offense and has taken a lot of pressure off QB Kyle Orton.

6. WR DeSean Jackson, Philadelphia Eagles
He is an explosive player who finally gives the Eagles' perimeter a third-level dimension. Jackson plays bigger than his listed size (5-foot-10) with enough functional play strength to gain separation off his release. He also has the play speed to attack all levels within the structure of the Eagles' West Coast passing attack.

7. QB Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
He is an intriguing young player who is the quarterback of the future in Baltimore. Flacco has a very strong arm which can attack all three levels in the passing game. He is a mobile guy in the pocket who shows decent dimensions at the quarterback position. Flacco has come along way with his timing and rhythm in the passing game.

8. OT Jake Long, Miami Dolphins
He has been very impressive playing the most critical position on the offensive line, especially as a rookie. He has been very effective as a run-blocker, while doing a great job protecting the back side of his quarterback. He is a tough, smart, competitive football player with excellent traits.
9. OT Ryan Clady, Denver Broncos
He has been a very consistent player within the Broncos' zone-blocking schemes. Clady is very athletic with those long gifted arms that allow him to get into defenders quickly. He is a very sound technician with excellent foot quickness, balance and control.

10. RB Steve Slaton, Houston Texans
He has been impressive in the Texans' running game, which has taken the pressure off the quarterback position. Slaton is a versatile back with three-down value. He has played bigger than his listed size (5-foot-9) with explosive speed and natural jump-cut ability. He can strike from anywhere from the field.

11. RB Jonathan Stewart, Carolina Panthers
He has been a solid addition to the Panthers' power running game. Stewart is a big back with a great combination of quickness, speed and power. He is an explosive player who has the functional strength to wear defenses down. However, he is only a two-down back and must continue to improve as a receiver out of the backfield along with understanding protection schemes.

12. DE Chris Long, St. Louis Rams
He has been somewhat unnoticed playing on a really bad team. However, Long is relentless and has an outstanding motor. He has strong active hands to get separation from blockers with finishing speed. Long has all the intangibles you look for when building the core of your defensive team.

13. OT Branden Albert, Kansas City Chiefs
He is another rookie starting in the NFL at the most critical position on the offensive line. He is very athletic with good size, foot quickness and long arms. He can bend and play with leverage as a run-blocker.

14. SS Chris Horton, Washington Redskins
Horton was not on my original top-20 list and that had a lot to do with the position he plays. However, I went back into the film room and realized that the Redskins found themselves a steal in the seventh round. Nevertheless, he is an instinctive player who has a knack for being around the ball.

15. OT Jeff Otah, Carolina Panthers
He is a big, powerful tackle who has improved the right side of the Panthers' offensive line. Otah is a big man who can be hard to get around in pass-protection schemes. He can shock defenders with his strong hands and long arms. He is also very effective as a run-blocker when creating movement and space in the running game.

16. RB Felix Jones, Dallas Cowboys
He has explosive, game-changing speed and is a threat to score anytime he touches the rock. Offensive coordinator Jason Garrett must find a way to get him more involved in the offense when he returns from his hamstring injury. He has a bell-cow mentality and is a very good change-of-pace back opposite Marion Barber.

17. RB Kevin Smith, Detroit Lions
One of the few bright spots in Detroit has been the play of Smith. He's a good, young back with three-down value. He has very good functional play speed and power. Smith has fit easily into the Lions' zone-running schemes with natural one-cut ability.

18. TE John Carlson, Seattle Seahawks
With all the injuries at the skills positions in Seattle, Carlson leads the team in receptions. He has shown good blocking ability in the run game and he is a natural athlete with good hands and route-running ability. Carlson is particularly good at finding the soft spots in underneath zones.

19. RB Ray Rice, Baltimore Ravens
He has been a versatile player who has contributed in both regular and sub offensive groupings. Rice is a good north-south runner who can be very effective running between the tackles. He displays a good low center of gravity and runs with power.

20. CB Aqib Talib, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
He is a physical corner who has fit well in Monte Kiffin's Tampa 2 system. Talib is a natural athlete with size, long arms and ball skills. He has a good knack for the playing the ball with his back to the quarterback.

21. RB Darren McFadden, Oakland Raiders
He is an explosive athlete with a lot of versatility within the structure of any offense. McFadden has the functional play speed to strike from anywhere on the field, but has been bothered by a toe injury that has affected his playing time.

22. DT Sedrick Ellis, New Orleans Saints
He is a disruptive young player who contributes in both regular and sub packages. Ellis has shown a good interior push when rushing the passer and improved his technique as a run defender before injuring his knee and missing time. He has all the intangibles to develop into a front-line starter for years to come.

23. TE Dustin Keller, New York Jets
He is a very athletic tight end who can cause a lot of mismatches when aligned outside on the perimeter. He is a natural route runner with good hands and run-after-catch ability.

24. DE Kendall Langford, Miami Dolphins
He is an under-the-radar player in the the Dolphins' 3-4 defense. He is not an ideal starter at this point in his development, but he will be in time.

25. RB Tim Hightower, Arizona Cardinals
He has replaced Edgerrin James in the starting lineup as a three-down back. Hightower has good run vision, quickness, power and instincts. He has deceptive speed and a nose for getting the ball into the end zone.

bearsfan_51
11-22-2008, 08:50 PM
You'd think with the money they are making they could at least use proper English. That's just embarrassing.

Xiomera
11-22-2008, 09:07 PM
Kevin Smith > Felix Jones

iBoldin
11-22-2008, 09:08 PM
It's too hard to compare linemen and skill position players. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Compare this with the poor grammar and spelling, and it's just another Scouts Inc. article.

T-RICH49
11-22-2008, 09:12 PM
Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr SHOULD be on the list

49ersfan_87
11-22-2008, 09:13 PM
OG Chilo Rachal might make his first start tommorow, i can't wait to see this guy. I think he's going to be a stud.

The Unseen
11-22-2008, 09:29 PM
The Jaguars should have...

no one...

on that list.

pfft.

thebow305
11-22-2008, 09:39 PM
How does McFadden even make this list, having been out a good portion of the season with turf toe. He really hasn't done anything. Langford has been rock solid on our D-line this year and an integral piece of our 3-4 defense that is worlds better than last season. He is a big reason for that and he is ranked behind McFadden? What a joke.

Hightower should be above him as well, as should Brandon Flowers (very solid starter for KC for a majority of the season and is not even on the list!), and Dustin Keller.

Hell, I'd even put Phillip Merling and Davone Bess over McFadden and Sedrick Ellis on that list. Merling has been a big part of our rotation on the line this year, and Davone has had some work in the slot as well as being our primary punt returner for the majority of the season up until this point.

TPFKA#1SaintsFan
11-22-2008, 09:41 PM
Tracy Porter was beastly in a couple of games before he was lost for the season. I think I'd put him over Sedrick Ellis, even though he only played in 5 games. I'm real excited about his future.

Pacific
11-22-2008, 09:50 PM
No Jordyzzz?!?!?!

illmatic74
11-22-2008, 09:51 PM
How does McFadden even make this list, having been out a good portion of the season with turf toe. He really hasn't done anything. Langford has been rock solid on our D-line this year and an integral piece of our 3-4 defense that is worlds better than last season. He is a big reason for that and he is ranked behind McFadden? What a joke.

Hightower should be above him as well, as should Brandon Flowers (very solid starter for KC for a majority of the season and is not even on the list!), and Dustin Keller.

Hell, I'd even put Phillip Merling and Davone Bess over McFadden and Sedrick Ellis on that list. Merling has been a big part of our rotation on the line this year, and Davone has had some work in the slot as well as being our primary punt returner for the majority of the season up until this point.Those 167 yards sure were nothing.

Race for the Heisman
11-22-2008, 09:55 PM
Dwight Lowery?

illmatic74
11-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Dwight Lowery?Definitly should be there.

Number 10
11-22-2008, 10:05 PM
Dwight Lowery?

Lowery has dropped off a cliff since the start of the San Diego game.

TitanHope
11-22-2008, 11:12 PM
Really confused as to why Sedrick Ellis made the list over Pat Sims and Jason Jones.

*remembers players' draft positions*

Ohhhhhh...

Aftermath
11-22-2008, 11:59 PM
Really confused as to why Sedrick Ellis made the list over Pat Sims and Jason Jones.

*remembers players' draft positions*

Ohhhhhh...

I ******* love Pat Sims.

Kid has potential to be a Warren Sapp type of player.

jth1331
11-23-2008, 12:45 AM
Clady should be above Jake Long. Long continues to get his #1 pick love, but Clady has been just flat out amazing this year.

BeerBaron
11-23-2008, 12:59 AM
Forte Forte Forte!!

should be third.....grr. Ryan and Johnson are the only one's I'd agree to him being behind, and not even by that much. The guy is literally 2/3 of our offense.

LonghornsLegend
11-23-2008, 01:12 AM
You can call me a homer but Orlando Scandrick has played well enough to be on that list, especially over someone like Darren McFadden who other then being drafted high hasn't done too much yet...Of course it's tough to explain that a corner is playing well unless your watching him or he's getting picks but he is gonna be a good one.

vidae
11-23-2008, 01:29 AM
How can Brandon Flowers not be on this list?! He's a rookie corner who is playing like he's been in the league for years.

/homer

edit: Oh, I didn't read the first paragraph. Ignore me! :D

Mr. Stiller
11-23-2008, 01:56 AM
Horton should be top 5, if not #1/#2, he's been hands down the best Rookie this season.

MetSox17
11-23-2008, 03:38 AM
Why in the world is Ryan Clady not in the top five, and more importantly, why is Jake Long ahead of him?

Gay Ork Wang
11-23-2008, 05:49 AM
Forte Forte Forte!!

should be third.....grr. Ryan and Johnson are the only one's I'd agree to him being behind, and not even by that much. The guy is literally 2/3 of our offense.
wait, he is our offense

DeathbyStat
11-23-2008, 07:23 AM
My thoughts on these prospects at the start of the season

QB Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons-Felt that he would be very good but not great, his early success doesn't suprise me.

RB Chris Johnson, Tennessee Titans-I was very wrong about this guy, I felt he was a very bad pick in the first round. Felt he would make little impact running the ball, a bit like Reggie bush

LB Jerod Mayo, New England Patriots-Solid player and i expected as much, plus i trust the pats to put him in the best possible position to succeed

WR Eddie Royal, Denver Broncos-loved his route running felt that he would be a a really good player

RB Matt Forte, Chicago Bears-My favorite senior back in last years draft, I wish the steeler would have draft him in the second.

WR DeSean Jackson, Philadelphia Eagles-Thought he was the number 2 reciever behind Devin Thomas

QB Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens-This guy is having success, didn't think he would

OT Jake Long, Miami Dolphins-Doubted his ability to play left tackle, i suppose he has been solid

RB Steve Slaton, Houston Texans-A sleeper for me, perfect for the zone blocking scheme, Denver should have grabbed this guy.

RB Jonathan Stewart, Carolina Panthers-Loved this guy coming out


Too lazy to write the rest

Gay Ork Wang
11-23-2008, 07:34 AM
I thought Chris Johnson would be anohter Chris Henry...oh well

SeanTaylorRIP
11-23-2008, 08:34 AM
Felix Jones definitely should not be above Kevin Smith or even Ray Rice or Tim Hightower. And IMO Tim Hightower>Ray Rice.

abaddon41_80
11-23-2008, 08:37 AM
Why in the world is Ryan Clady not in the top five, and more importantly, why is Jake Long ahead of him?

Agreed. Clady has been amazing this season, even better than Joe Thomas last year. According the some sites he has only allowed .5 a sack and only committed two penalties. Numbers for offensive linemen are almost as subjective as those of cornerbacks but still. Long has been okay in pass protection but he isn't a very good run blocker yet.

bored of education
11-23-2008, 10:00 AM
The Chiefs rookie class has been great. Dorsey gets better every week and will be the top DT in the game soon. Flowers and Carr are 2 of the top 4 rookie CB's. Branden Albert is the 3rd best LT in this class thus far. Mike Cox is a great UDFA fullback. Brian Johnston has become a starter at DE. Dajuan Morgan is seeing more and more time, Jamaal Charles is becomming the premier back in the KC O. Cottam is a beast of a blocking tight end and is very agile and quick for such a house with the ball in his hands.

The Chiefs class overall =A++++++++

tjsunstein
11-23-2008, 10:34 AM
List is void. Jordy isn't number 1.

BeerBaron
11-23-2008, 11:19 AM
My thoughts on these prospects at the start of the season

RB Matt Forte, Chicago Bears-My favorite senior back in last years draft, I wish the steeler would have draft him in the second.

I don't believe they had a chance to as the Bears picked ahead of them in the 2nd taking him there.

RaiderNation
11-23-2008, 11:23 AM
McFadden would have been top 10 if his toe wasnt f'd up

jth1331
11-23-2008, 11:31 AM
Why in the world is Ryan Clady not in the top five, and more importantly, why is Jake Long ahead of him?

Agreed. Clady has been amazing this season, even better than Joe Thomas last year. According the some sites he has only allowed .5 a sack and only committed two penalties. Numbers for offensive linemen are almost as subjective as those of cornerbacks but still. Long has been okay in pass protection but he isn't a very good run blocker yet.

I am so glad others agree with me. Clady has just been flat out amazing this year, but most people still have Jake Long ahead of him for some reason. Oh wait, Long was the #1 overall pick and Clady #12.
I am just so happy Broncos look like they got their franchise bookend LT to protect Cutler for the next decade+.

d34ng3l021
11-23-2008, 11:50 AM
I cant believe that <insert rookie from favorite team> is not on this list!

No but seriously. Sam Baker and Curtis Lofton? wtf.

Gay Ork Wang
11-23-2008, 11:52 AM
Sam Baker played like only 4 games

iowatreat54
11-23-2008, 12:00 PM
Sam Baker played like only 4 games

But he's on the FALCONZZZZ!!!

BamaFalcon59
11-23-2008, 12:14 PM
Agreed. Clady has been amazing this season, even better than Joe Thomas last year. According the some sites he has only allowed .5 a sack and only committed two penalties. Numbers for offensive linemen are almost as subjective as those of cornerbacks but still. Long has been okay in pass protection but he isn't a very good run blocker yet.

He gave John Abraham a few headlocks that weren't called as holding. Bull I say.

Sniper
11-23-2008, 12:54 PM
You'd think with the money they are making they could at least use proper English. That's just embarrassing.

Nonsense. On the Internet, proper English is frowned upon.

d34ng3l021
11-23-2008, 01:33 PM
Sam Baker played like only 4 games

Twas a joke. Curtis Lofton deserves to be around 20-25, but its no big deal.

wicket
11-23-2008, 02:13 PM
brandon flowers, antoine cason anybody????

themaninblack
11-23-2008, 04:11 PM
Bengals rookie LT Anthony Collins made his debut on Thursday against the Steelers and he was fantastic against arguably the best pass rush defense in the NFL.

TheBuffaloBills
11-23-2008, 04:36 PM
Leodis had his coming out party today!

AkiliSmith
11-23-2008, 04:54 PM
Hightower has a lot of touchdowns but he is only averaging only 3.1 yards per carry and has only 1 game in which he rushed for more than 40 yards.

There are quite a few rookies I would put above him.

Gay Ork Wang
11-23-2008, 05:37 PM
Matt Forte awesome!

A Perfect Score
11-23-2008, 05:46 PM
I really think Joe Flacco should be ahead of desean jackson and eddie royal...what he is doing in baltimore is just outstanding. Call me a homer, but it isnt like he has a ton to work with there (certainly less then ryan has in atlanta) and we are now 7-4 and in the playoff hunt and hes a huge part of that. This guy played D2 ball last year and most people didnt even expect him to start all year long. Call me a homer, but the only people Id put ahead of him are Ryan and Johnson.

Bruce Banner
11-23-2008, 05:55 PM
I really think Joe Flacco should be ahead of desean jackson and eddie royal...what he is doing in baltimore is just outstanding. Call me a homer, but it isnt like he has a ton to work with there (certainly less then ryan has in atlanta) and we are now 7-4 and in the playoff hunt and hes a huge part of that. This guy played D2 ball last year and most people didnt even expect him to start all year long. Call me a homer, but the only people Id put ahead of him are Ryan and Johnson.

Some positions just pull more weight than others.

Agreed.

d34ng3l021
11-23-2008, 06:14 PM
Harry Douglas. zomgz.

etk
11-23-2008, 06:18 PM
Aqib Talib a physical corner....say what? He's been good...and deserves to be on the list, but horrible reasoning. Brandon Flowers is a physical corner.

Clifton Smith is t3h gr34t35t putz him on the list for the simple reason that he was undrafted and Dexter Jackon was our 2nd round pick.

Bruce Banner
11-23-2008, 06:24 PM
Aqib Talib a physical corner....say what? He's been good...and deserves to be on the list, but horrible reasoning. Brandon Flowers is a physical corner.

Clifton Smith is t3h gr34t35t putz him on the list for the simple reason that he was undrafted and Dexter Jackon was our 2nd round pick.

Dexter will be better than Clifton.

He would already be if he went somewhere with good coaching.

etk
11-23-2008, 06:31 PM
Dexter will be better than Clifton.

He would already be if he went somewhere with good coaching.

Please explain. This has nothing to do with coaching. We drafted him because of a 40 time. Problem is, he has no ability to move laterally and make people miss, change directions, etc. All he can do is run straight. Smith is elusive and that's why he's having success right now....because elusiveness is what makes good returners, not speed. Our coaches are ******** for drafting him but his failure is hardly their fault.

Jackson will be out of the league in 2 years. Rest assured. He's not even good enough for the CFL. Dead serious.

Bruce Banner
11-23-2008, 06:43 PM
Please explain. This has nothing to do with coaching. We drafted him because of a 40 time. Problem is, he has no ability to move laterally and make people miss, change directions, etc. All he can do is run straight. Smith is elusive and that's why he's having success right now....because elusiveness is what makes good returners, not speed. Our coaches are ******** for drafting him but his failure is hardly their fault.

Jackson will be out of the league in 2 years. Rest assured. He's not even good enough for the CFL. Dead serious.

He runs everywhere but forward, which as you said is all he can do, right? Why does he try to do things he cannot? That, is a matter of coaching.

He seems elusive enough based on what I have seen. He just has no vision.

Smith is a **** up waiting to happen. He has fumble issues!

You're also someone that has called for Ronde to be cut.....right?

I mean, I wanted his time to diminish but you seem like you are "one of those" fans.

etk
11-23-2008, 06:54 PM
He runs everywhere but forward, which as you said is all he can do, right? Why does he try to do things he cannot? That, is a matter of coaching.

He seems elusive enough based on what I have seen. He just has no vision.

Smith is a **** up waiting to happen. He has fumble issues!

You're also someone that has called for Ronde to be cut.....right?

I mean, I wanted his time to diminish but you seem like you are "one of those" fans.

My mistake for miswording my post. I said it has "nothing to do with coaching", but you're right that it's partially their fault. It's still their job to work around his physical limitations, which is what I was begging for all year (have him run straight).

He has no vision and no elusiveness. He's just hard to catch when he hits the hole.

Smith didn't fumble today. Lots of players struggle with fumbles, but most fix the problem eventually. Tiki Barber changed how he carried it, Ahman Green stopped wearing those black arm sleeves. I think Smith has learned his lesson as I'm sure the coaches said "1 more and you're out".

I never called for Ronde to be cut. I said he should retire after the season. He can't keep up with the game anymore physically. He's been beaten more this year than any other Buc corner in recent memory. Teams have been picking on him because he's small, slow and has slipping issues. He still has good instincts and is quick enough to jump passes, but that doesn't make up for a number of costly mistakes. He pretty much lost us the game against Dallas.

I wanted whose time to diminish? There are Buc fans that take things too far because they can't control their emotions. I'm not one of them. If I say something it's because of logic, not anger. I called for Dexter Jackson to be cut in the preseason. That could've helped us.

Bruce Banner
11-23-2008, 06:58 PM
I called for Dexter Jackson to be cut in the preseason. That could've helped us.

I think putting Ronde in man-to-man situations is a larger problem than his failing physical abilities.

But that (bolded) is just insane.

Did you also call for Dre Moore to be cut? That's a move I would have endorsed. (off the team, no practice squad time)

As for the fumbling, if that can be fixed, maybe Dexter's vision problems/hitting the hole problems can too?

etk
11-23-2008, 07:07 PM
I think putting Ronde in man-to-man situations is a larger problem than his failing physical abilities.

But that (bolded) is just insane.

Did you also call for Dre Moore to be cut? That's a move I would have endorsed. (off the team, no practice squad time)

As for the fumbling, if that can be fixed, maybe Dexter's vision problems/hitting the hole problems can too?

Agree. We can find a better corner in the draft this year though, no? Either way, Ronde has 1 more year in him, tops. He himself will admit how slow he is and how he's having a down year, but now that I think about it, we need him for our nickel packages anyway.

I'm not one to go off numbers. Although he did have a TD (running straight), I saw the lack of elusiveness and /facepalm.

Yes. He was by far our worst lineman. He'd make it on other team's, but we're loaded with talented interior linemen. He definitely has the talent to be developed on the PS....but he's got a long ways to go to be physically ready for the pros. No conditioning, no motor.

Sure. Dexter would be an average returner if he ran straight. Still not as good or consistent as Smith and others, but at least he would be serviceable. Dexter's problems are very easy to fix, but that still won't complete him.

dunagan15
11-23-2008, 08:22 PM
Horton should be top 5, if not #1/#2, he's been hands down the best Rookie this season.

Umm Matt Ryan..enough said.

jetsfan0099
11-23-2008, 08:40 PM
Dustin Keller should be higher, hes way better than John Carlson. Carlson doesn't have half the talent Keller has. Keller is just getting involved and is tearing it up right now.

Smokey Joe
11-23-2008, 08:50 PM
I think DRC should be on that list.

fenikz
11-23-2008, 08:55 PM
Indeed he is our #1 CB right now, really has stepped it up the last 2 weeks

BamaFalcon59
11-23-2008, 08:57 PM
Matt Ryan is awesome. Future Hall of Famer.

regoob2
11-23-2008, 09:22 PM
Matt Ryan is awesome. Future Hall of Famer.This might be a smidge early.

BamaFalcon59
11-23-2008, 09:22 PM
Just a smidge.

But I think it will happen.

regoob2
11-23-2008, 09:23 PM
Umm Matt Ryan..enough said.
Matt Forte is at least in the conversation. There definitely 1 and 2.

regoob2
11-23-2008, 09:24 PM
Just a smidge.

But I think it could happen.
^^fixed.^^

yo123
11-23-2008, 09:25 PM
Just a smidge.

But I think it will happen.


Holy ****, he's played a little more than half a season. Take it easy.

BamaFalcon59
11-23-2008, 09:25 PM
Dude, he's Matt Ryan.

Bruce Banner
11-23-2008, 09:36 PM
It's becoming hard for me to differentiate player jockeys from fans of the logo. You have the team in your name but you won't quit jawing about that one player (not directed towards any one poster).

BamaFalcon59
11-23-2008, 09:39 PM
You're just jelous.

I brag on him, Michael Turner, John Abraham, and Roddy White equally. The next tier consists of Michael Boley, Jerious Norwood, and the newly added Harry Douglas. Chris Houston, Lawyer, Erik Coleman, and many others inhabit the next group. And at the bottum are the Adam Jennings and Jamaal Andersons of the team, no disrespect meant to them.

d34ng3l021
11-23-2008, 09:56 PM
Matt Forte is at least in the conversation. There definitely 1 and 2.

Matt Forte wishes he was in the discussion for best rookie of the year. Though he is my number 3 (I have Clady at number 2). In terms of voting, he is 2 though.

timewaster
11-23-2008, 11:10 PM
Keller, higher

It seems the only way to stop him is to hold him. As shown today by the Titans. His catches in the Patriots game. He is on fire.

20 receptions 236 yards 1 td in the last 3 weeks.

regoob2
11-23-2008, 11:31 PM
Keller, higher

It seems the only way to stop him is to hold him. As shown today by the Titans. His catches in the Patriots game. He is on fire.

20 receptions 236 yards 1 td in the last 3 weeks.
Are those great stats? Favre always makes TEs look good.

ChezPower4
11-24-2008, 02:33 AM
Ryan Clady has had a better season than Jake Long IMO.

TitanHope
11-24-2008, 05:20 AM
It seems the only way to stop him is to hold him. As shown today by the Titans. His catches in the Patriots game. He is on fire.

Yeah, but we suck at coverin' pass catching TE's.

They know who they are...

*glares at Dallas Clark*

Mr.Regular
11-24-2008, 11:49 AM
How bout the much hyped OT class?
Long, Clady, and Albert are all playing really well.
Williams and Cherilus not so much...
And how is Duane Brown doing? Ive heard hes been decent but I admit I dont see much Houston.

IceKubes
11-24-2008, 12:11 PM
How bout the much hyped OT class?
Long, Clady, and Albert are all playing really well.
Williams and Cherilus not so much...
And how is Duane Brown doing? Ive heard hes been decent but I admit I dont see much Houston.

Duane probably started off the season better, he is not playing very well right now. Doing fine in the running game but his protection has a long way to go. I would say he can handle the average guys but good pass rushers give him fits and he has faced a ton of them this year.

CashmoneyDrew
11-24-2008, 12:25 PM
Keller, higher

It seems the only way to stop him is to hold him. As shown today by the Titans. His catches in the Patriots game. He is on fire.

20 receptions 236 yards 1 td in the last 3 weeks.

Dude, he was held one time.

Mr. Stiller
11-24-2008, 01:40 PM
Umm Matt Ryan..enough said.

Matt Ryan has been playing great at QB. But Horton is just flat out playing at a pro-bowl level as a rookie.

Ryan isn't. He's playing great for a rookie. Horton is playing better than most guys who have some tenure in the league.

Gay Ork Wang
11-24-2008, 02:56 PM
Matt Forte has 30% of the Bears offensive yards, leading the team in rushing, receptions and TDs, he has 266 touches and only fumbled once

BufFan71
11-24-2008, 04:25 PM
mckelvin is starting to look like a very good football player

Go_Eagles77
11-24-2008, 04:39 PM
I'm surprised McKelvin had 2 Ints yesterday, wasn't his ball skills one of his biggest knocks coming out?

BamaFalcon59
11-24-2008, 04:43 PM
Matt Ryan has been playing great at QB. But Horton is just flat out playing at a pro-bowl level as a rookie.

Ryan isn't. He's playing great for a rookie. Horton is playing better than most guys who have some tenure in the league.

So is Matt Ryan. He is a top ten QB as a rookie. Horton isn't a top ten safety.

TheBuffaloBills
11-24-2008, 04:44 PM
I think after the last 2 weeks performance, McKelvin deserves to be on that list. His picks werent like tipped passes or anything like that, he jump the route and pick them off.

MetSox17
11-24-2008, 04:46 PM
Isn't Rodgers-Cromartie playing better than McKelvin? Heck, isn't he playing better than his cousin?!

Gay Ork Wang
11-24-2008, 04:48 PM
everyone is playing better than his cousin

bigbluedefense
11-24-2008, 04:52 PM
Id give the DROY to Horton if it were up to me. Horton reminds me a lot of Troy Polumalu. He's just all over the place, and plays tough.

Id love to have a SS like that :( Reese let one slip by him :(

Horton is a big reason why the Skins have the 3rd ranked D in the league.

Giantsfan1080
11-24-2008, 05:50 PM
Id give the DROY to Horton if it were up to me. Horton reminds me a lot of Troy Polumalu. He's just all over the place, and plays tough.

Id love to have a SS like that :( Reese let one slip by him :(

Horton is a big reason why the Skins have the 3rd ranked D in the league.

We weren't going to draft 2 safties with the guys we had. You have to be happy with the way Phillips is playing up to this point.

bigbluedefense
11-24-2008, 05:59 PM
We weren't going to draft 2 safties with the guys we had. You have to be happy with the way Phillips is playing up to this point.

oh im estatic about Phillips. its just that it wouldve been so sweet to have Horton too lol :(

he really is an amazing player. a stud in the making.

d34ng3l021
11-24-2008, 06:48 PM
Matt Ryan has been playing great at QB. But Horton is just flat out playing at a pro-bowl level as a rookie.

Ryan isn't. He's playing great for a rookie. Horton is playing better than most guys who have some tenure in the league.

Ryan is playing like a top10 QB in the NFL as of now. 13th in passer rating. 6th in YPA. He throws an interception every 51.6 attempts (Rivers: 32.7, Brees: 26.2, P Manning: 42.4). Gets a first down 35.8% of the time (which is good for 7th in the league).

And even if he isn't at a pro bowl level, his feat is much much more impressive.

GB12
11-24-2008, 06:56 PM
Ryan is playing like a top10 QB in the NFL as of now. 13th in passer rating. 6th in YPA. He throws an interception every 51.6 attempts (Rivers: 32.7, Brees: 26.2, P Manning: 42.4). Gets a first down 35.8% of the time (which is good for 7th in the league).

And even if he isn't at a pro bowl level, his feat is much much more impressive.
13th in passer rating, 14th in TDs, 12th in yards, and 21st in completion percentage does not equal top 10. He's playing very well, and crazy good for a rookie, but no he is not "playing like a top10 QB in the NFL as of now".

MetSox17
11-24-2008, 07:23 PM
He may not be playing with the best of them at this point, but what he has shown and what he has done as a rookie quarterback far exceeds anything a safety can do in the league short of winning DPOY.

BamaFalcon59
11-24-2008, 09:45 PM
13th in passer rating, 14th in TDs, 12th in yards, and 21st in completion percentage does not equal top 10. He's playing very well, and crazy good for a rookie, but no he is not "playing like a top10 QB in the NFL as of now".

He has been near flawless in most games. The only reason he isn't a top ten QB stats wise is because we run the ball in the redzone, see Michael Turner's 13 touchdown rushes.

And either way, a QB playing at his level is much more impressive than a strong safety playing at Horton's level.

gpngc
11-24-2008, 09:47 PM
Keller is a real good one. Favre loves him and he's improved his blocking.

GB12
11-24-2008, 09:48 PM
He has been near flawless in most games. The only reason he isn't a top ten QB stats wise is because we run the ball in the redzone, see Michael Turner's 13 touchdown rushes.

And either way, a QB playing at his level is much more impressive than a strong safety playing at Horton's level.
I wasn't saying that or taking anything away from Ryan. He just isn't a top ten QB...yet.

Bruce Banner
11-24-2008, 10:15 PM
How many games has MR won himself? One? He doesn't scare me yet. Shut down Turner, double up on Roddy, take an early lead....**** hits the fan. Two of those three are easily attainable when ATL plays a great team. (The Panthers are NOT great)

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 12:15 AM
13th in passer rating, 14th in TDs, 12th in yards, and 21st in completion percentage does not equal top 10. He's playing very well, and crazy good for a rookie, but no he is not "playing like a top10 QB in the NFL as of now".

I guess it was wrong of me to bring in statistics. I think the way he plays deserves to be top 10 (name me 10 QBs who are better than him, and I could tell you that 2-3 of them may be arguable).

Its going to be hard for him to do better in TDs, considering his RB is the NFL's rushing TD leader with 14 and usually gets them at the goal line. If we didn't run with him so much in the redzone, Ryan could have a couple more TDs (who knows. he might just end up throwing picks in the endzone as usual). In defense of that, he may be 14th in TDs, but he is also 15th in attempts.

His 310 attempts also hold him back from gaining as many yards as the other guys (it could go either way though), which is why I used YPA.

His completion percentage does need to be better though. His completion percentage in his last 7 games is 64% though.

throwback54milkman
11-25-2008, 09:09 AM
keller gets better every week, he could be a top 5 TE by next season....seriously

Gay Ork Wang
11-25-2008, 09:18 AM
I guess it was wrong of me to bring in statistics. I think the way he plays deserves to be top 10 (name me 10 QBs who are better than him, and I could tell you that 2-3 of them may be arguable).

Its going to be hard for him to do better in TDs, considering his RB is the NFL's rushing TD leader with 14 and usually gets them at the goal line. If we didn't run with him so much in the redzone, Ryan could have a couple more TDs (who knows. he might just end up throwing picks in the endzone as usual). In defense of that, he may be 14th in TDs, but he is also 15th in attempts.

His 310 attempts also hold him back from gaining as many yards as the other guys (it could go either way though), which is why I used YPA.

His completion percentage does need to be better though. His completion percentage in his last 7 games is 64% though.
Peyton, Brady, Brees, Romo, Campbell, Favre, Jay Cutler, (Chad Pennington), Warner, Eli kinda, Rivers, Hasselbeck with a lil help and injury, Palmer when healthy

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 10:19 AM
Peyton, Brady, Brees, Romo, Campbell, Favre, Jay Cutler, (Chad Pennington), Warner, Eli kinda, Rivers, Hasselbeck with a lil help and injury, Palmer when healthy

:rolleyes: No Roethlisberger?

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 10:24 AM
Ryan is playing like a top10 QB in the NFL as of now. 13th in passer rating. 6th in YPA. He throws an interception every 51.6 attempts (Rivers: 32.7, Brees: 26.2, P Manning: 42.4). Gets a first down 35.8% of the time (which is good for 7th in the league).

And even if he isn't at a pro bowl level, his feat is much much more impressive.

Wow, Those numbers are eerily Similar to Roethlisbergers rookie year and we all know that he's merely a game manager.

Then again, he won ROTY in 04. So I can see it.

But again. Horton is playing Better at SS than Ryan at QB. Thats not a slam on Ryan saying he's playing poorly, thats just a testament to how Great Horton has been playing.

Ryan will probably win OROY.

My point is, Horton has been the best rookie starter in the league. His play would be top 5 SS right now IMO. I'd probably go...

Polamalu, Sanders, Horton.

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 10:28 AM
Peyton, Brady, Brees, Romo, Campbell, Favre, Jay Cutler, (Chad Pennington), Warner, Eli kinda, Rivers, Hasselbeck with a lil help and injury, Palmer when healthy

Oh. I was just talking about this year. I do not think he is going to take down established guys like Palmer and Brady who aren't playing this year.

From that list, Cutler is a guy who is iffy. He throws more TDs, but has some of them at the goal line. Regardless, his TD-INT ratio is 1.58, while Ryan's is 1.83. While Cutler may have more yards, Ryan has less attempts, and his 7.8 YPA tops Cutler's 7.5. Completion percentage hurts Ryan because of his early mistakes, but even at 60.0%, Cutler is only 0.6% better.

Out of those guys, I personally would take Ryan over Hasselbeck and Campbell this year. Campbell is debatable, but as you can see, there is some doubt.

Gay Ork Wang
11-25-2008, 02:14 PM
:rolleyes: No Roethlisberger?
sorry, Forgot, Roethlisberger too

Oh. I was just talking about this year. I do not think he is going to take down established guys like Palmer and Brady who aren't playing this year.

From that list, Cutler is a guy who is iffy. He throws more TDs, but has some of them at the goal line. Regardless, his TD-INT ratio is 1.58, while Ryan's is 1.83. While Cutler may have more yards, Ryan has less attempts, and his 7.8 YPA tops Cutler's 7.5. Completion percentage hurts Ryan because of his early mistakes, but even at 60.0%, Cutler is only 0.6% better.

Out of those guys, I personally would take Ryan over Hasselbeck and Campbell this year. Campbell is debatable, but as you can see, there is some doubt.


Fun Fact: Broncos rushing game is 19th in the league

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 02:34 PM
Fun Fact: Broncos rushing game is 19th in the league

What does that have to do with my post?

Bruce Banner
11-25-2008, 02:36 PM
New page!

Maybe we can stop the Falcon crap that has taken over the board.

I'm actually surprised to see Talib on a top 25 list. He usually only plays on nickel packages. But ints talk.

Gay Ork Wang
11-25-2008, 02:36 PM
what im saying is that Cutler has no real running game to lean on. Matt Ryan is playing with the #2 Rushing game and a fairly good defense especially compared to Denver. that they have about the same amount of stats shows that Cutler is doing about the same job with less IMO

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 02:42 PM
what im saying is that Cutler has no real running game to lean on. Matt Ryan is playing with the #2 Rushing game and a fairly good defense especially compared to Denver. that they have about the same amount of stats shows that Cutler is doing about the same job with less IMO

Yeah thats true. His WRs and TEs are better and gets more opportunity to air it out. Shrug. You can flip the stats and situations to accommodate either player. Clearly though, Bruce doesn't want to talk about it anymore :(

Gay Ork Wang
11-25-2008, 02:43 PM
Yeah thats true. His WRs and TEs are better and gets more opportunity to air it out. Shrug. You can flip the stats and situations to accommodate either player. Clearly though, Bruce doesn't want to talk about it anymore :(
Rushing game >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good WRs

Bruce Banner
11-25-2008, 02:43 PM
well, we've done this before.

Gay Ork Wang
11-25-2008, 02:47 PM
well, we've done this before.
more talk about Forte!

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 02:50 PM
more talk about Forte!

So how come he only has 3 100 yard games, coming against Indy, St. Louis, and Detroit?

Gay Ork Wang
11-25-2008, 02:52 PM
So how come he only has 3 100 yard games, coming against Indy, St. Louis, and Detroit?
how about 100 yards from scrimmage games? :)

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 03:03 PM
how about 100 yards from scrimmage games? :)

Touche. They really like him in the passing game.

Gay Ork Wang
11-25-2008, 03:04 PM
and he is an incredible Pass blocker for a rookie. He has only 1 less 100 yards from scrimmage games then Clinton Portis

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 03:08 PM
and he is an incredible Pass blocker for a rookie. He has only 1 less 100 yards from scrimmage games then Clinton Portis

Yeah (except when Portis has his 100 yard scrimmage games, he usually has about 150 yards). Consistency out of a RB is terrific. He reminds me of a less talented LT.

fenikz
11-25-2008, 05:09 PM
DRC is #11 in passes defended(#1 amongst rookies) with only 3 starts

in those 3 starts he has 10 Tackles, 2 INT, 8 PDef

Bruce Banner
11-25-2008, 05:12 PM
DRC is #11 in passes defended(#1 amongst rookies) with only 3 starts

in those 3 starts he has 10 Tackles, 2 INT, 8 PDef

They are throwing in his direction.

Must be terrible QBs to miss those targets.

:)

fenikz
11-25-2008, 05:15 PM
They are throwing in his direction.

Must be terrible QBs to miss those targets.

:)
it helps when you run a 4.3 and have a 50 inch vertical

Bruce Banner
11-25-2008, 05:17 PM
it helps when you run a 4.3 and have a 50 inch vertical

I bet he hits .300 too.

fenikz
11-25-2008, 05:21 PM
ya he hits .300...with his &*$%

Bruce Banner
11-25-2008, 05:24 PM
ya he hits .300...with his &*$%

Louisville slugger fo sho.

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 08:12 PM
Sorry to bring up Matt Ryan again, but some Falcon fan posted this:


Current Rankings 1 - 15 (plus Flacco) by QB Rating with all games included

1 PHILLIP RIVERS = 103.3
2 KURT WARNER = 102.4
3 TONY ROMO = 101.8
4 DREW BREES = 99.9
5 JEFF GARCIA = 94.5
6 BRETT FAVRE = 94.1
7 CHAD PENNINGTON = 93.7
8 ELI MANNING = 91.6
9 MATT SCHAUB = 91.0
10 MATT CASSEL = 90.5
11 AARON RODGERS = 90.5
12 JASON CAMPBELL = 90.2
13 MATT RYAN = 88.3
14 KYLE ORTON = 88.1
15 PEYTON MANNING = 87.2

23 JOE FLACCO = 78.7

Quarterback Ratings if you remove the LOWEST QB Rating from the Stats

1 PHILLIP RIVERS = 108.39
2 KURT WARNER = 107
3 DREW BREES = 106.9 (+1)
4 TONY ROMO = 105.1 (-1)
5 MATT RYAN = 103.5 (+8)
6 JEFF GARCIA = 102.7 (-1)
7 MATT SCHAUB = 100.7 (+2)
8 BRETT FAVRE = 99.2 (-2)
9 CHAD PENNINGTON = 97.8 (-2)
10 ELI MANNING = 96.1 (-2)
11 JASON CAMPBELL = 95.9 (+1)
12 AARON RODGERS = 95.2 (-1)
13 MATT CASSEL = 94.5 (-3)
14 PEYTON MANNING = 93.3 (+1)
15 KYLE ORTON = 89.4 (-1)

JOE FLACCO = 83.7 ??

QB Rating if you remove the HIGHEST AND LOWEST Rating from the Stats

1 PHILLIP RIVERS = 104.7
2 TONY ROMO = 102.1 (+1)
3 DREW BREES = 101.3
4 KURT WARNER = 101.2 (-2); (-2)
5 MATT RYAN = 99.6 (+8)
6 JEFF GARCIA = 96.9 (-1)
7 BRETT FAVRE = 96.2 (-1)
8 CHAD PENNINGTON = 95 (-1)
9 AARON RODGERS = 92.9 (+2)
10 JASON CAMPBELL = 92.4 (+2)
11 MATT SCHAUB = 92.0 (-2); (-4)
12 ELI MANNING = 91.6 (-4); (-2)
13 MATT CASSEL = 89.8 (-3)
14 PEYTON MANNING = 88.7 (+1)
15 KYLE ORTON = 85.4 (-1)

JOE FLACCO = 79.6 ??

GB12
11-25-2008, 08:20 PM
Yeah but that's just averaging the QB ratings, which makes those numbers completely worthless.

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 08:20 PM
Yeah but that's just averaging the QB ratings, which makes those numbers completely worthless.

It shows consistency of a QB.

comahan
11-25-2008, 08:21 PM
You know who sucks?

Everyone on the Texans.

And since this is a rookies thread, lets just focus on them being terrible.

GB12
11-25-2008, 08:24 PM
It shows consistency of a QB.
You cannot average QB ratings and take it as meaning anything. I'm not one that thinks QB rating is a completely worthless stat, but when you average them it is.

He had a 120.6 rating in a game he threw 18 passes and a 68.1 rating in a game that he threw 44. When you average them they hold the same weight which they shouldn't.

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 09:25 PM
You cannot average QB ratings and take it as meaning anything. I'm not one that thinks QB rating is a completely worthless stat, but when you average them it is.

He had a 120.6 rating in a game he threw 18 passes and a 68.1 rating in a game that he threw 44. When you average them they hold the same weight which they shouldn't.

This is true.

It does show some week to week consistency though. One bad game can hurt a player (in Ryan's case, he gained 8 spots after removing the bad game). In Rivers case, he was consistent throughout the season and sees no ranking changes.

MetSox17
11-25-2008, 10:02 PM
1 PHILLIP RIVERS = 104.7
2 TONY ROMO = 102.1 (+1)
3 DREW BREES = 101.3
4 KURT WARNER = 101.2 (-2); (-2)
5 MATT RYAN = 99.6 (+8)
6 JEFF GARCIA = 96.9 (-1)
7 BRETT FAVRE = 96.2 (-1)
8 CHAD PENNINGTON = 95 (-1)
9 AARON RODGERS = 92.9 (+2)
10 JASON CAMPBELL = 92.4 (+2)
11 MATT SCHAUB = 92.0 (-2); (-4)
12 ELI MANNING = 91.6 (-4); (-2)
13 MATT CASSEL = 89.8 (-3)
14 PEYTON MANNING = 88.7 (+1)
15 KYLE ORTON = 85.4 (-1)

JOE FLACCO = 79.6 ??

Had some spare time, and i did this myself.

I removed the Tampa Bay and Oakland game from Matty's stats and his rating
was 91.5.
(155 for 256, 2060 yards, 9 touchdowns, 4 interceptions)

Only good for 13th on that list, but then again, you'd probably have to adjust all the other ones as well.

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 11:44 PM
Had some spare time, and i did this myself.

I removed the Tampa Bay and Oakland game from Matty's stats and his rating
was 91.5.
(155 for 256, 2060 yards, 9 touchdowns, 4 interceptions)

Only good for 13th on that list, but then again, you'd probably have to adjust all the other ones as well.

Hm. Maybe the guy who did that stuff was wrong.

MetSox17
11-25-2008, 11:47 PM
Hm. Maybe the guy who did that stuff was wrong.

Well it depends how he did it. Like what was mentioned earlier, if he simply removed the games and averaged out the ratings, it might be higher. But we all know how flawed that would be (140 rating one game, 60 rating the other, does that make you a 100 rating quarterback?).

I simply removed the stats from his best and worst game from his season totals, and got his rating.

d34ng3l021
11-25-2008, 11:54 PM
Well it depends how he did it. Like what was mentioned earlier, if he simply removed the games and averaged out the ratings, it might be higher. But we all know how flawed that would be (140 rating one game, 60 rating the other, does that make you a 100 rating quarterback?).

I simply removed the stats from his best and worst game from his season totals, and got his rating.

Yeah thats what I thought was done. I do not really know how else it could be done.

MetSox17
11-25-2008, 11:56 PM
Yeah thats what I thought was done. I do not really know how else it could be done.

Maybe he used a different calculating tool. I'll try some other ones i find online in a bit with the same stats.

Edit - Found about three different calculators and they all spit out the same number.

GB12
11-26-2008, 12:00 AM
Hm. Maybe the guy who did that stuff was wrong.
That's what I said. He just averaged the QB rating for each game, when if you want it to mean anything you have to use the formula.

SeanTaylorRIP
12-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Matt Ryans numbers were far superior to Flacco's midway through the season especially after Flacco's horrendous start of the season, but Flacco is starting to have numbers similar to Ryan:

Completions: MR-203, JF-202
Attempts:MR-333, JF-331
Completion Percentage:MR-61%, JF-61%
Attempts a game: MR-27.8, JF-27.6
Passing Yards: MR-2,625, JF-2,276
Passing TD's: MR-13, JF-12
INT's: MR-6, JF-9
Rushing Yards/TD's: MR-38 yards, 0 TD's, JF-160 yards, 2 TD's.

Ryan Obviously has been the better QB this year but the media gives so much to Ryan some even talking about MVP that I think Flacco deserves some recognition. I don't think Ryan is in a completely different level from Flacco. Flacco definitely is getting stronger and stronger as the season goes on. While the 9 INT's doesn't look good 7 of those INT's came in his first 4 starts. The other two were in one game against the Giants. Throwing aside the Giants game he hasn't thrown an INT in 6 straight games. Last week might have been one of his stronger games of his NFL career, 19-29 for 280 yards, 2 TD's, no INT's.

Also Rookie rushing update:

Matt Forte: 1012 yards rushing, 6 TD's, 4.1 ypc.
Chris Johnson: 958 yards rushing, 7 TD's, 4.7 ypc.
Steve Slaton: 904 rushing yards, 8 TD's, 5.0 ypc.

IMO I think Slaton will shock everyone and end up with the rookie rushing title. Impressive though that all 3 rookie RB's will probably end up with at least 1200 rushing yards each.

Bruce Banner
12-02-2008, 05:59 PM
IMO I think Slaton will shock everyone and end up with the rookie rushing title. Impressive though that all 3 rookie RB's will probably end up with at least 1200 rushing yards each.

Bf_51 might be right about not drafting RBs in the first.........

(just ignore CJ)

d34ng3l021
12-02-2008, 06:06 PM
Matt Ryans numbers were far superior to Flacco's midway through the season especially after Flacco's horrendous start of the season, but Flacco is starting to have numbers similar to Ryan:

Completions: MR-203, JF-202
Attempts:MR-333, JF-331
Completion Percentage:MR-61%, JF-61%
Attempts a game: MR-27.8, JF-27.6
Passing Yards: MR-2,625, JF-2,276
Passing TD's: MR-13, JF-12
INT's: MR-6, JF-9
Rushing Yards/TD's: MR-38 yards, 0 TD's, JF-160 yards, 2 TD's.

Ryan Obviously has been the better QB this year but the media gives so much to Ryan some even talking about MVP that I think Flacco deserves some recognition. I don't think Ryan is in a completely different level from Flacco. Flacco definitely is getting stronger and stronger as the season goes on. While the 9 INT's doesn't look good 7 of those INT's came in his first 4 starts. The other two were in one game against the Giants. Throwing aside the Giants game he hasn't thrown an INT in 6 straight games. Last week might have been one of his stronger games of his NFL career, 19-29 for 280 yards, 2 TD's, no INT's.

Also Rookie rushing update:

Matt Forte: 1012 yards rushing, 6 TD's, 4.1 ypc.
Chris Johnson: 958 yards rushing, 7 TD's, 4.7 ypc.
Steve Slaton: 904 rushing yards, 8 TD's, 5.0 ypc.

IMO I think Slaton will shock everyone and end up with the rookie rushing title. Impressive though that all 3 rookie RB's will probably end up with at least 1200 rushing yards each.

Yeah. Joe Flacco has not been a slouch and is having a tremendous rookie season of his own right now. Mark Clayton seems to be doing a good job of showing up too. Baltimore deserves a good QB and its great to see that they seem to have gotten one. I wonder how these QB fares down the stretch. An ATL-BAL game down the stretch would be fun to watch.

OzTitan
12-02-2008, 06:35 PM
Also Rookie rushing update:

Matt Forte: 1012 yards rushing, 6 TD's, 4.1 ypc.
Chris Johnson: 958 yards rushing, 7 TD's, 4.7 ypc.
Steve Slaton: 904 rushing yards, 8 TD's, 5.0 ypc.

IMO I think Slaton will shock everyone and end up with the rookie rushing title. Impressive though that all 3 rookie RB's will probably end up with at least 1200 rushing yards each.

Hate to sound like a homer here, but I doubt it would be very close if Johnson didn't have to share with White. Johnson would have had 200+ if he wasn't shutdown in Detroit, maybe more, and that wasn't the first time he was shut down early in a game this season.

Raw carry wise he's getting a better go than Slaton, but the amount of times this season where Fisher has shut him down in favor of White when he was on a roll is a bit of a shame because he may have had OROY secured by now regardless of the QB's. Yeah, I guess staying fresh and not abusing the rookie is more important that stats and awards, particularly as the Titans kept winning and the playoffs kept seeming assured, but Johnson has left a fair chunk of yards on the field thanks to White and his 150+ carries.

Oh, and how he has 7 TD's at all is pretty amazing considering White takes any that are close to the goalline, of which he has 13.

Go_Eagles77
12-02-2008, 06:48 PM
I have a mancrush on DeSean Jackson.

tjsunstein
12-02-2008, 07:01 PM
Jordyzzz obviously.

Everyone is debatable though.

BamaFalcon59
12-02-2008, 07:01 PM
Hate to sound like a homer here, but I doubt it would be very close if Johnson didn't have to share with White. Johnson would have had 200+ if he wasn't shutdown in Detroit, maybe more, and that wasn't the first time he was shut down early in a game this season.

Raw carry wise he's getting a better go than Slaton, but the amount of times this season where Fisher has shut him down in favor of White when he was on a roll is a bit of a shame because he may have had OROY secured by now regardless of the QB's. Yeah, I guess staying fresh and not abusing the rookie is more important that stats and awards, particularly as the Titans kept winning and the playoffs kept seeming assured, but Johnson has left a fair chunk of yards on the field thanks to White and his 150+ carries.

Oh, and how he has 7 TD's at all is pretty amazing considering White takes any that are close to the goalline, of which he has 13.

Noone is going to beat out Matt Ryan for rookie of the year. Not many rookies in NFL history would.

Right now he is looking at ending with roughly...

3,500 yards passing
17 touchdowns passing
8 interceptions
61% completions
7.9 yards per attempt
91.2 passer rating

And his numbers only get better every week. Not to mention he is helping bring his team, formerly thought to be the frontrunner for the number one overall pick, to the playoffs.

d34ng3l021
12-02-2008, 07:16 PM
Noone is going to beat out Matt Ryan for rookie of the year. Not many rookies in NFL history would.

Right now he is looking at ending with roughly...

3,500 yards passing
17 touchdowns passing
8 interceptions
61% completions
7.9 yards per attempt
91.2 passer rating

And his numbers only get better every week. Not to mention he is helping bring his team, formerly thought to be the frontrunner for the number one overall pick, to the playoffs.

In fact, in his last 7 games, hes numbers are at about 250 yards per game, 65%, 9 TDs, 3 INTs, and a 101 QB rating.

He faces the 21st, 22nd, 24th, and 3rd ranked pass Ds. Chance to inflate his stats? Maybe so.

bearfan
12-02-2008, 10:28 PM
Not saying that Forte should win, I just want to make a case for him.
- He is playing behind a line that is not that great. You look at Johnson, who has a really good line, and I dont know enough about the Texans line to say anything. If you watch Forte play, its incredible his effort. He is not as explosive as the other two, but he does a really good job with what he has.
- He is out on the field all three downs. I dont know if the other 2 RBs do that, but I know that Forte is out on the field 95% of the game. He has the most touches by any RB in the league, and has been the work horse for the offense. The bears wouldnt have the record they do without him. You can say the same about Johnson, I think he has helped the Titans tremendously. I dont get any texans games though so I still cant say much about Slaton.
-Forte also has 350+ recieving yards with 4TDs recieving. So Forte has 1350+ yards from Scrimmage this season. By the end, he should be over 1600.
-Only has 1 fumble to this point. I didnt look up the stats for the other 2, but to have the most carries, and possibly touches in the NFL, and to have only fumbled once is pretty impressive. Looking the other two up, they also have only one fumble. Forte is 4 touches short of 300 though..(rec+car)

Bruce Banner
12-02-2008, 11:46 PM
Forte is a legit beast.

I have a feeling that he won't EVER get the credit he will deserve.

A Bears offense without Forte is much worse off than a Texans offense without Slaton, a Titans offense without CJ, and a Falcons offense without Ryan (yep).

the matt ryan bit is mainly me casting a line

niel89
12-03-2008, 12:30 AM
Yeah. Joe Flacco has not been a slouch and is having a tremendous rookie season of his own right now. Mark Clayton seems to be doing a good job of showing up too. Baltimore deserves a good QB and its great to see that they seem to have gotten one. I wonder how these QB fares down the stretch. An ATL-BAL game down the stretch would be fun to watch.

yeah its gonna be exciting to see how these two develop and to see which will turn out to be the better one in the end. Ryan has been out standing this year and Flacco is getting a lot better each game.

im glad baltimore is finally getting an apparent franchise qb. i only wish it was earlier so that Ray Lewis didnt have to waste all those years without an offense.

OzTitan
12-03-2008, 12:31 AM
I guess I have to agree on Ryan - he pretty much has it regardless of any RB performance.

The Titans OL really isn't that great run blocking. They have feasted on the Lions and Chiefs this season with two huge days. They are much better pass blocking.

Not sure how important Forte is, but without Johnson, the Titans offense would be very, very lame.

iowatreat54
12-03-2008, 12:32 AM
I guess I have to agree on Ryan - he pretty much has it regardless of any RB performance.

The Titans OL really isn't that great run blocking. They have feasted on the Lions and Chiefs this season with two huge days. They are much better pass blocking.

Not sure how important Forte is, but without Johnson, the Titans offense would be very, very lame.

Forte leads the league in touches, that should tell you how important he is to us.

d34ng3l021
12-03-2008, 01:08 AM
I guess I have to agree on Ryan - he pretty much has it regardless of any RB performance.

The Titans OL really isn't that great run blocking. They have feasted on the Lions and Chiefs this season with two huge days. They are much better pass blocking.

Not sure how important Forte is, but without Johnson, the Titans offense would be very, very lame.

I LOL at the Bears offense without Forte. Maybe even the Bears team without Forte. I can't say the same with Chris Johnson.

EDIT: Just wanted to put this statistic out there.

So far, Ryan has faced 38 3rd and 8-10 yard situations (wow). His completion percentage is 66 with a 10.7 YPA. He has faced 23 3rd and 11+ situations. His completion percentage is 65% with a 13.0 YPA. I think you could make a case for him being one of the best 3rd and long QBs in the league.

OzTitan
12-03-2008, 04:07 AM
Well, I mean, is the Bears offense even good enough to warrant any one player going really making that big an impact? Forte has a lot of carries sure, but what kind of dropoff are we talking here if he leaves? average to below average?

The Titans offense without Johnson could very well fall off the face of the earth. LenDale looks well and truely like a backup in comparison and he's the only thing defenses have to respect on the Titans offense. I'd say at least above average as it is right now to below average without him.

Basically, I'm saying I reckon the Titans offense and the Titans as a team stands more to lose without Johnson. Give a lot of backs that many carries and they probably have the same or very similar production as Forte's.

Gay Ork Wang
12-03-2008, 10:36 AM
they would be horrible. there is no way our offense does anything without forte

captainjack27
12-03-2008, 10:52 AM
Well, I mean, is the Bears offense even good enough to warrant any one player going really making that big an impact? Forte has a lot of carries sure, but what kind of dropoff are we talking here if he leaves? average to below average?

The Titans offense without Johnson could very well fall off the face of the earth. LenDale looks well and truely like a backup in comparison and he's the only thing defenses have to respect on the Titans offense. I'd say at least above average as it is right now to below average without him.

Basically, I'm saying I reckon the Titans offense and the Titans as a team stands more to lose without Johnson. Give a lot of backs that many carries and they probably have the same or very similar production as Forte's.

Not even close. Bears without Forte would be a disaster. Titans would obviously take a hit, but not nearly as bad as the Bears. Forte is the leading rusher and receiver on that team, hence there would be a much larger impact for the bears.

OzTitan
12-04-2008, 12:07 AM
Well, Forte is the 4th on the team in receiving yards, but he is 1st in receptions and receiving TDs. Honestly, I didn't factor in receiving, but it's obviously fairly important so I should have.

My point was though the Bears offense already is in the bottom 1/3 of the league and midish in rushing. On the other hand, CJ is on a midish ranked offense and a 6th ranked rush offense. Despite having a better ranked offense than the Bears, the Titans pass offense is ranked worse by about the same margin its offense as a whole is ranked better. So, in other words, the Titans *really* rely on their rushing going well - a lot. It's a major reason to why they are 11-1 right now (with a few games being exceptions). Without CJ, they wouldn't have anywhere near the rushing attack and hence the wins or offensive success. With Forte, the Bears still have a below average offense and a 6-6 record. Sure, it can get a lot worse still, but the Titans have more to lose than the bears without *their* best offensive player.

Of course, that's not a knock on Forte personally, but I'm just looking at it from a real world "who matters the most" perspective as a whole. In other words, while Forte may have a larger absolute impact, i.e. raw yards/td's and hence impact on the raw position of his offense's rank, CJ has a large relative impact, i.e. relative to the Titans' success. When you look at league MVPs for instance, you're not really looking at which player is the most valuable to his team (i.e. the player with the largest absolute impact), you're looking at which player is the most valuable on a top performing team. I'm just applying a similar principle here - if there was a OROY-MVP award, Ryan would probably win that too, but CJ would be higher on the list than Forte. Not that a poor/average team can't have a great player deserving of an MVP, but to be truely valuable, a player really has to be on a team that's cashing in on that value. It's not overly fair, as Forte would probably only be doing better on a more successful team, but it is what it is.

Gay Ork Wang
12-04-2008, 09:14 AM
lol so u say because the Titans offense is better than the bears offense, CJ is more important?
If u talk about MVP its the most valuable player on the team. nothing top. Usually those guys are from top teams.

Just looking at the valuable aspect, Forte has 10 of the 26 TDs by the offense, has about 36% of all the yardage and 72% of the rushing yards. Thats pretty darn valuable.

ironman4579
12-04-2008, 06:00 PM
Agreed. Clady has been amazing this season, even better than Joe Thomas last year. According the some sites he has only allowed .5 a sack and only committed two penalties. Numbers for offensive linemen are almost as subjective as those of cornerbacks but still. Long has been okay in pass protection but he isn't a very good run blocker yet.

I don't disagree that Clady has been better than Long overall. But not a good run blocker? That's what's making Long right now. He's been a beast run blocker who still struggles at times with speed rushers, although he's getting better from what I'm hearing. Basically what people expected his first year to look like. You can knock his pass blocking, but not his run blocking.

ironman4579
12-04-2008, 06:48 PM
Hate to sound like a homer here, but I doubt it would be very close if Johnson didn't have to share with White. Johnson would have had 200+ if he wasn't shutdown in Detroit, maybe more, and that wasn't the first time he was shut down early in a game this season.

Raw carry wise he's getting a better go than Slaton, but the amount of times this season where Fisher has shut him down in favor of White when he was on a roll is a bit of a shame because he may have had OROY secured by now regardless of the QB's. Yeah, I guess staying fresh and not abusing the rookie is more important that stats and awards, particularly as the Titans kept winning and the playoffs kept seeming assured, but Johnson has left a fair chunk of yards on the field thanks to White and his 150+ carries.

Oh, and how he has 7 TD's at all is pretty amazing considering White takes any that are close to the goalline, of which he has 13.

Not a Houston or Slaton fan here (I actually didn't like him coming out. Shows what I know). But Slaton has probably been as good or better than Johnson so far this year. You can say what you want about Johnson's lack of carries, but Slaton has a 23 less carries. He's got a higher YPC average than Johnson. He's got more rushing TD's. More runs for 1st downs. More 20+ and 40+ yards runs. I'm pretty sure he hasn't gottne to play the Lions (we're so pitiful :( )

Receiving wise, Johnson has one more catch, but less yards, a lower average(obviously), and they each have one TD. Again Slaton has more 20+ and 40+ yard catches.

Now, I'm not bashing Johnson here, he's been great. But Slaton has been just as good if not better.

Gay Ork Wang
12-04-2008, 06:49 PM
didnt the Texans play the Lions where Owen Daniels had like 6 rec for 66 yards and 2 TDs?

ironman4579
12-04-2008, 06:55 PM
didnt the Texans play the Lions where Owen Daniels had like 6 rec for 66 yards and 2 TDs?

I have no doubt you're right. I've tried to block every memory of the Lions season. Thanks for making me cry.

EDIT:You are correct. Slaton had 80 yards on 17 carries and a TD, averaging 4.7 YPC. That sucks against the Lions, he must have been sick that game.

Gay Ork Wang
12-04-2008, 06:58 PM
Hey, go lions, defeat the packers and vikes :D

OzTitan
12-04-2008, 08:57 PM
Not a Houston or Slaton fan here (I actually didn't like him coming out. Shows what I know). But Slaton has probably been as good or better than Johnson so far this year. You can say what you want about Johnson's lack of carries, but Slaton has a 23 less carries. He's got a higher YPC average than Johnson. He's got more rushing TD's. More runs for 1st downs. More 20+ and 40+ yards runs. I'm pretty sure he hasn't gottne to play the Lions (we're so pitiful :( )

Receiving wise, Johnson has one more catch, but less yards, a lower average(obviously), and they each have one TD. Again Slaton has more 20+ and 40+ yard catches.

Now, I'm not bashing Johnson here, he's been great. But Slaton has been just as good if not better.

Again, I wasn't talking raw carries. Johnson has more than Slaton, but he also has another back taking a lot of the carries and it definitely influences momentum - Slaton does not have such a concern. Whenever CJ gets off on a hot start, White seems to cool it down. Probably because CJ starting quick usually means a lead for the Titans, and as soon as Fisher gets a lead, he wants 3.34 yards per carry every carry to extend drives, hence Lendale's the man for the job. As for receiving, so far the Titans have done very little to involve CJ in the passing game, which is disappointing, as it's clear he could be involved a lot more. I get the feeling Fisher and Co are looking ahead at January when it comes to CJ and making sure he's not used too much now. Another thing Slaton doesn't have to worry about so much.

As I said, there are times this season where Johnson could have racked up a lot more rushing but was shutdown since the game was in hand. Also, to be even close in TDs is quite remarkable given LenDale has 13 himself and generally takes over near the goalline. CJ has been given a fraction and has already made a good rookie season out of it. Not to downplay Slaton's efforts as he is clearly a good back too, but in the same situation as CJ I question if he'd be producing the same.

ironman4579
12-04-2008, 09:08 PM
Again, I wasn't talking raw carries. Johnson has more than Slaton, but he also has another back taking a lot of the carries and it definitely influences momentum - Slaton does not have such a concern. Whenever CJ gets off on a hot start, White seems to cool it down. Probably because CJ starting quick usually means a lead for the Titans, and as soon as Fisher gets a lead, he wants 3.34 yards per carry every carry to extend drives, hence Lendale's the man for the job. As for receiving, so far the Titans have done very little to involve CJ in the passing game, which is disappointing, as it's clear he could be involved a lot more. I get the feeling Fisher and Co are looking ahead at January when it comes to CJ and making sure he's not used too much now. Another thing Slaton doesn't have to worry about so much.

As I said, there are times this season where Johnson could have racked up a lot more rushing but was shutdown since the game was in hand. Also, to be even close in TDs is quite remarkable given LenDale has 13 himself and generally takes over near the goalline. CJ has been given a fraction and has already made a good rookie season out of it. Not to downplay Slaton's efforts as he is clearly a good back too, but in the same situation as CJ I question if he'd be producing the same.

Someone taking carries really doesn't have anything to do with it. The fact is Slaton has a higher YPC. We really don't have anything to go on other than raw numbers at this point, and Slaton's say that with the same number of carries he'd have more yards and be producing better than Johnson, not worse.

OzTitan
12-05-2008, 01:14 AM
How can it not have anything to do with it? If there wasn't a share system going on in Tennessee, Johnson would inevitably have more opportunities and he wouldn't have quarters go by where he isn't given the ball once like he is now. Running in the NFL can be a very streaky thing and production can be hurt when your momentum and 'grove' are interfered with.

And the fact is Slaton isn't the best offensive weapon the Texans have, not by far. CJ is however the Titans' best offensive weapon. Defenses key on the run and on Johnson specifically. AJ makes sure that doesn't happen against the Texans.

Simple fact is the two are in two different situations. He's just barely outdoing CJ in some stats with the clear #1 role and a, at best, secondary focus by opposing D's. You can't tell me CJ sharing with the NFL's leading TD scorer on the ground on a run first team without any serious receiving weapons doesn't factor in. There isn't a single TD LenDale got from his 13 that CJ couldn't have. Slaton is a good back but if he had a "backup" with 13TDs and was acing 8, sometimes 9 man fronts (damn Bears) constantly, I'd expect to see a drop off in production.

Gay Ork Wang
12-05-2008, 02:05 AM
A running commitee certainly takes the momentum but a 3 down back has a lot more load on their shoulders, where as CJ gets a lot of rest

OzTitan
12-05-2008, 04:07 AM
True, but the pattern with CJ and White seems to be sharing 3 down roles more than sharing carries in a span of 3 downs in a row.

Doesn't matter much anyway. Johnson already has a borderline #1 amount of carries regardless as the Titans run that much, so he's still getting the work load of a number one back or very close to it, he's just not getting the opportunity to establish much of a rhythm, really. Two games this season (I believe) White and CJ have had 100yards a peice. White is a nice short yardage back, as in good enough to do in short yardage what CJ would probably do hence giving Johnson a rest, but in reality most of those yards are yards Johnson could have easily had, if not a fair bit more. Not that I'd want him to have as many carries as Forte (particularly with playoffs coming), but just a few more carries here and there at key times feeding off his momentum and a few more carries around the goalline, and he probably has pretty towering production for a rookie.

Gay Ork Wang
12-05-2008, 06:29 AM
against the chiefs and lions

OzTitan
12-05-2008, 07:36 PM
Right...... I'm not drawing attention to that as an amazing achievement, just outlining the opportunities CJ has had taken away. Adrian Peterson wouldn't have had his record breaking day under Fisher with White behind him.

ironman4579
12-05-2008, 07:40 PM
How can it not have anything to do with it? If there wasn't a share system going on in Tennessee, Johnson would inevitably have more opportunities and he wouldn't have quarters go by where he isn't given the ball once like he is now. Running in the NFL can be a very streaky thing and production can be hurt when your momentum and 'grove' are interfered with.

And the fact is Slaton isn't the best offensive weapon the Texans have, not by far. CJ is however the Titans' best offensive weapon. Defenses key on the run and on Johnson specifically. AJ makes sure that doesn't happen against the Texans.

Simple fact is the two are in two different situations. He's just barely outdoing CJ in some stats with the clear #1 role and a, at best, secondary focus by opposing D's. You can't tell me CJ sharing with the NFL's leading TD scorer on the ground on a run first team without any serious receiving weapons doesn't factor in. There isn't a single TD LenDale got from his 13 that CJ couldn't have. Slaton is a good back but if he had a "backup" with 13TDs and was acing 8, sometimes 9 man fronts (damn Bears) constantly, I'd expect to see a drop off in production.

Of course he'd have more chances. The point is he already has more carries. I'm just pointing out that People throw Johnson out as a ROY candidate, which he should be, but you don't hear many people mention Slaton. Honestly, I was surprised to see how well Slaton's done when I was updating the rookie stat leaders thread. I just think he deserves a little recognition.

OzTitan
12-06-2008, 08:46 PM
Yeah, he has done really well and doesn't get the attention he deserves. Can't complain about that with Johnson - almost everyone now recognises it as a good pick and him as a good player. I guess a combination of being a Texan, being amongst a pretty good rookie RB class and being a later round pick means Slaton gets overlooked a lot.

fenikz
12-06-2008, 08:48 PM
Forte has impressed my far more than any other rookie RB, was a huge fan of I'm coming into the draft was hoping he would fall to us in the 2nd

locseti
12-08-2008, 06:19 PM
2008 All Rookie Team Depth Chart

*OFFENSE*

QB
1. Matt Ryan
2. Joe Flacco
3. Tyler Thigpen (Wildcat QB)

RB
1. Matt Forte
2. Chris Johnson
3rd down back. Steve Slaton
4. Darren McFadden

FB
1. Peyton Hillis

WR
1. Eddie Royal
2. DeSean Jackson
3. Jordy Nelson
4. Davone Bess

TE
1. Dustin Keller
2. John Carlson
3. Martellus Bennett

LT
1. Jake Long

RT
1. Ryan Clady

G

C

d34ng3l021
12-08-2008, 06:26 PM
Ryan Clady is the LT and Jake Long would be the RT.

comahan
12-08-2008, 06:29 PM
While Ahman has been fully healthy, Slaton dealt with the same switching RB's back and forth deal. That was about 7 games worth of it.

Race for the Heisman
12-08-2008, 06:41 PM
2008 All Rookie Team Depth Chart

*OFFENSE*

QB
1. Matt Ryan
2. Joe Flacco
3. Tyler Thigpen (Wildcat QB)

RB
1. Matt Forte
2. Chris Johnson
3rd down back. Steve Slaton
4. Darren McFadden

FB
1. Peyton Hillis

WR
1. Eddie Royal
2. DeSean Jackson
3. Jordy Nelson
4. Davone Bess

TE
1. Dustin Keller
2. John Carlson
3. Martellus Bennett

LT
1. Jake Long

RT
1. Ryan Clady

G

C

Guard could have Donald Thomas, who was starting for Miami before being placed on IR.

Also, Tyler Thigpen is not a rookie.

SeanTaylorRIP
12-08-2008, 07:25 PM
My RB's would be Matt Forte as the lead back, Chris Johnson as the split carry back who is the home run threat, Steve Slaton as my 3rd down back, and Tim Hightower as my goalline back.

Ward
12-08-2008, 07:27 PM
My RB's would be Matt Forte as the lead back, Chris Johnson as the split carry back who is the home run threat, Steve Slaton as my 3rd down back, and Tim Hightower as my goalline back.

Not to be a homer, but what about Felix Jones?

PACKmanN
12-08-2008, 10:49 PM
2008 All Rookie Team Depth Chart

*OFFENSE*

QB: Matt Ryan
RB :Matt Forte, Chris Johnson, Steve Slaton
FB: Peyton Hillis
WR: Eddie Royal, Jordy Nelson, DeSean Jackson, Davone Bess, Harry Douglas
TE: Dustin Keller, John Carlson
T: Ryan Clady
G: Mike Pollak
C: Steve Justice
G: Chilo Rachal
T:Jeff Otah
DE: Chris Long
DT: Sedrick Ellis
DT: Glenn Dorsey
DE: Kendall Longford
OLB: Keith Rivers
MLB: Curtis Lofton
OLB: Jerod Mayo
CB: Leodis Mckelvin, Aqib Talib, Brandon Flowers, DRC, Terrell Thomas
SS: Kenny Phillips
FS: Charles Godfrey

Added the blank spots you had and added some of mine. That would be an insane Cover 2 defense.

d34ng3l021
12-08-2008, 10:53 PM
This offensive class is one of the best in recent memory. Its just loaded...

jth1331
12-09-2008, 12:37 AM
I seriously am going to be so pissed if Clady isn't in the Pro Bowl but Long is.

captainjack27
12-09-2008, 12:48 AM
My RB's would be Matt Forte as the lead back, Chris Johnson as the split carry back who is the home run threat, Steve Slaton as my 3rd down back, and Tim Hightower as my goalline back.

I'd put in Johnathan Stewart over Tim Hightower.

fenikz
12-09-2008, 02:23 AM
Just wanted to see how the rest of the rookie CB's were doing

As for DRC he is tied for 18th with 3 picks and is 10th in passes defensed with 18, both 1st among rookies while only starting 6 games, looks every bit of a future shut down corner, so happy he fell to us

Still needs to hit the weight rooms though, his tackling is sub par, he is always in the right positions just has trouble bringing down bigger backs

btw if anyone can find some good pictures of him pm them to me +rep

bored of education
12-09-2008, 07:37 AM
Kinda odd how many scouts/draftnicks said this rookie class would not be a a good class with the lack of elite talent at the top but this is one of the best overall classes in a while. Both sides of the ball you can see alot of great players. Secondary and RBs have impressed me the most.

Gay Ork Wang
12-09-2008, 08:54 AM
Carl Nicks has been phenomenal for the Saints i believe

Denver Bronco99
12-09-2008, 09:25 AM
Sure Jake Long has played very well, and was the #1 pick


But Clady has played AMAZINGLY and is def. playing at a higher level then long at this point

tjsunstein
12-09-2008, 09:57 AM
Jordyzz scored again. It's not even close.

SaintsMan
12-09-2008, 11:06 PM
Carl Nicks has been phenomenal for the Saints i believe

Nicks has been dominating everyone across from him. The buy is a monster. Just the last game against the Falcons, he completely destroyed Curtis Lofton on a sweep, which gave Pierre Thomas the lane he needed for the TD. I'd say he was a steal for a 5th round pick.

d34ng3l021
12-10-2008, 12:22 AM
Nicks has been dominating everyone across from him. The buy is a monster. Just the last game against the Falcons, he completely destroyed Curtis Lofton on a sweep, which gave Pierre Thomas the lane he needed for the TD. I'd say he was a steal for a 5th round pick.

The talent was easily there, but it was his characters concerns that made him drop. And isn't he playing guard now? I really doubt a OT turned OG is going to have trouble against a LB.

SaintsMan
12-10-2008, 01:48 AM
The talent was easily there, but it was his characters concerns that made him drop. And isn't he playing guard now? I really doubt a OT turned OG is going to have trouble against a LB.

His "character concerns" were pretty much him telling a Cop to buzz off at a party and he got a bad rep for it. I haven't heard of any other incidents by Nicks. He has been working hard for the Saints, which has earned him the starting LG spot over Jamar Nesbit.

And I thought Nicks, throwing a big, physical MLB like Lofton to the ground was a good play even if that was what he was supposed to do. He made Lofton fly.

LonghornsLegend
12-10-2008, 02:31 AM
As if this RB class wasn't deep enough as it is:


http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/25/fullj.998caccaffe072209d947ccd3379dbb1/998caccaffe072209d947ccd3379dbb1-getty-81707411gs026_dallas_cowboy.jpg


Couldn't of asked for more from Choice, caught the bell well out of the backfield, blocked, ran tough inside, and it was really his first game getting any sort of involvement in the offense being a primary special team guy.


He could of provided alot of value to another team who could of used his services more because he certainly got better as the game went on...I could see us using all 3 backs next year similiar to the Giants, Choice is going to be a good one though, nothing fancy but he has proven he can get the job done.


Alot of people were high on him at the time of the draft, so it's nice to see him get at least a shot this year to show people he can play with the big boys.

jkpigskin
12-10-2008, 08:53 AM
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/d8/fullj.7d73df0e16d3b9166df79c52eb6b46a5/7d73df0e16d3b9166df79c52eb6b46a5-getty-81706743wm005_washington_re.jpg

rookie runningback ray rice from rutgers for the ravens
=]

bored of education
12-10-2008, 09:07 AM
The Chiefs rookie CBs are beasting it this year. Carr, Flowers, Leggett. Now if we could address MLB and DE next draft; :eyeroll:

kmartin575
12-10-2008, 02:05 PM
The Chiefs rookie CBs are beasting it this year. Carr, Flowers, Leggett. Now if we could address MLB and DE next draft; :eyeroll:

Yep, they have been pretty damn good. Not bad for a 2nd rounder, a 5th rounder, and an UDFA.

Brandon Flowers: 48 tackles, 2 INT, 1 returned for TD, 9 PD
Brandon Carr: 61 tackles, 2 INT, 6 PD
Maurice Leggett: 37 tackles, 1 INT, 1 returned for TD, 6 PD

I would say that's not too shabby for 3 rookie corners being the top 3 corners on a team, especially when 2 of those rookies are Division II players in their first years in the NFL. Also not too bad when the Chiefs are about to set the record for least amount of sacks in a season. They are making plays on the ball despite almost never having the luxury of a hurried pass, they are having to cover all day. Like you said, get them a pass rush and a front 7 that can stop the run and we might have something good going.

ThatThereCarGoin200mph
12-10-2008, 08:12 PM
simple best rookie qb matt ryan
best rb chris johnson
anybody who says anything else is biased and stupid!

iowatreat54
12-10-2008, 08:15 PM
simple best rookie qb matt ryan
best rb chris johnson
anybody who says anything else is biased and stupid!

Matt Forte > Chris Johnson.

soybean
12-10-2008, 08:36 PM
Matt Forte > Chris Johnson.

how? chris johnson has more yards with less carries and a longer run.

Matt forte has more receptions and td receptions, though.

captainjack27
12-10-2008, 08:41 PM
how? chris johnson has more yards with less carries and a longer run.

Matt forte has more receptions and td receptions, though.

Forte is the glue of that bears offense. Without him, it could be one of the worst in the league. The guy does everything for them. Runs, catches, doesn't make too many mistakes. Don't get me wrong Chris Johnson is a great back and the Titans wouldn't have nearly as much success without him. But Forte is just a stud.

iowatreat54
12-10-2008, 08:46 PM
how? chris johnson has more yards with less carries and a longer run.

Matt forte has more receptions and td receptions, though.

he has 13 more yards. Yes, more yards on less carries is impressive, but CJ averages only a yard more per game than Forte. Forte averages 114 total ypg, most among all rookies (excluding QBs), is tied for most total TDs among rookies, leads the entire league in touches with 323.

I know CJ splits time, but it isn't cut and dry who is better than the other. IMO Forte is having a better all around rookie year than CJ, but Forte, CJ, and Slaton are turning in really impressive rookie years.

ThatThereCarGoin200mph
12-10-2008, 10:33 PM
my post is validated ^^^^^ biased stupid homers lol! put chris johnson instead of matt forte on the bears and see what happens dumbass' LOL!

Gay Ork Wang
12-11-2008, 07:26 AM
my post is validated ^^^^^ biased stupid homers lol! put chris johnson instead of matt forte on the bears and see what happens dumbass' LOL!
Chris Johnson is hardly the same blocker as Forte and i dont think id trust him to play all 3 downs all game

OzTitan
12-11-2008, 06:55 PM
Johnson has blocked fairly well for a guy his size. Almost every rookie RB could use work on it, but it's not a weakness by any means. I have no issues with him on all 3 downs.

For those saying Forte makes the Bears offense, well consider this - he accounts, yardage wise, for 35% of the Bears offense from my calculations. Chris Johnson is 31%. They're both extremely important to their offenses. The difference is though the Titans have a better ranked offense with a worse ranked pass offense than the Bears, so they rely more on rushing than the Bears. When you consider that, and the position the Titans are right now i.e. #1 AFC seed, it's not very cut and dry who is the most important/valuable to their team. Both have cases.

Gay Ork Wang
12-11-2008, 06:58 PM
i think Forte only missed/whiffed 1 block that was week one vs Bob Sanders and that led to a QB hit.

Seriously though, do u even watch the team? Who would be the offense for the bears without Matt Forte? who?

OzTitan
12-11-2008, 07:08 PM
The same could be said for the Titans. Both are their respective team's #1 player on offense. Both offenses would suffer without them. Which more? who knows. What I do know though is the Titans as a team stand to lose more without their #1 offensive player - no first round bye, no divisional title etc.

Gay Ork Wang
12-11-2008, 07:10 PM
yea but Lendale White >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Jones

iowatreat54
12-11-2008, 07:11 PM
yea, pretty much why I included "it's not cut and dry". CJ has slightly better rushing stats, Forte has better receiving stats, Forte plays every down (I know that's not CJ's fault), hence why I think all around Forte is having a better season IMO. That doesn't mean I think Forte is a better player or more talented, but his all around season has been more impressive. If CJ was full time, he would prolly put up much better numbers, but he isn't and the discussion is about production, not talent and "what could have happened."

Like I said, CJ, Forte, and Slaton are all having tremendous rookie years and I would be happy with all of them on my team, but all around I think Forte has been the most impressive.

bearsfan_51
12-11-2008, 07:13 PM
The same could be said for the Titans. Both are their respective team's #1 player on offense. Both offenses would suffer without them. Which more? who knows.
I know. And it's not even close.

Matt Forte has accounted for 1,476 of the Bearsí 4,146 yards from scrimmage this season, a percentage of 35.60 that is the highest of any NFL player. It is also the eighth-highest single-season percentage in Bears history and the most by a rookie in team annals. Forteís percentage is the fourth highest by a NFL rookie since the Super Bowl era began in 1966, trailing only the Coltsí Marshall Faulk (39.4 in 1994), the Ramsí Eric Dickerson (39.1 in 1983) and the Coltsí Edgerrin James (36.6 in 1999).

Only Matt Ryan deserves more credit than Forte.

iowatreat54
12-11-2008, 07:13 PM
The same could be said for the Titans. Both are their respective team's #1 player on offense. Both offenses would suffer without them. Which more? who knows. What I do know though is the Titans as a team stand to lose more without their #1 offensive player - no first round bye, no divisional title etc.

dude, you can't use "well since our team is in a better position, if we lose X player it would hurt more" as an excuse for how good the player is. So just because if the Titans don't have CJ, they don't win the division. If the Bears don't have Forte, they don't go .500. Guess what, both would be about 5 games worse in terms of total record. Whether that means best team in the league or middle of the pack team has nothing to do with the impact the player has on the team, it just means the team overall is better than the other.

OzTitan
12-11-2008, 07:15 PM
I don't think backup strength is really that great an argument for how significant a starter is to an offense. White may be better than Kevin Jones at this point, but it doesn't really mean Johnson is less valuable to the Titans - an entire element to the offense would be missing, the element of big plays. When a D is facing a guy that could simply outrun their fastest player to the endzone, it makes an impact. Take that away, and it doesn't really matter if the backup is serviceable as a starter, because unless he has the same element, the offense has lost a huge advantage. The impact of that is hard to measure.

OzTitan
12-11-2008, 07:26 PM
dude, you can't use "well since our team is in a better position, if we lose X player it would hurt more" as an excuse for how good the player is. So just because if the Titans don't have CJ, they don't win the division. If the Bears don't have Forte, they don't go .500. Guess what, both would be about 5 games worse in terms of total record. Whether that means best team in the league or middle of the pack team has nothing to do with the impact the player has on the team, it just means the team overall is better than the other.

I'm not saying that's a reason why CJ is a better player, I'm just talking real world impact, as in what it would mean for each team. With Forte the Bears may not make the playoffs and with Forte the Bears still have a fairly low ranked offense, so without him this season may not be as different. But without CJ, the Titans season would have been a lot different.

It's not meant to be a CJ > Forte proof, just an angle I've been trying to get across. When you look at the league MVP, you look at a player on a top team that enables the team to be at the top. It's not Forte's fault the Bears aren't such a team this season, but MVP awards (in this case an imaginary one) don't work like that. As for the direct comparison, player to player, it's pretty much useless, as the situations and roles are different. With that many carries, CJ would probably account for +4% more offense too. But maybe with that many carries CJ would be worn out right now. I doubt it, as he seems to play tough, but it's not out of the question. So who knows, really. All I'm saying is, if you take both players away this season and replace them with nothing, the Titans are the biggest losers - that's all.

iowatreat54
12-11-2008, 07:35 PM
right, so the whole argument is that without CJ, the Titans O is still better than the Bears O without Forte. How good the rest of the team is has no bearing on how good the player is. The Titans are 12-1 and the Bears are 7-6. Without CJ the Titans are prolly around 7-6 and without Forte the Bears are prolly around 3-10. Guess what? Without their rookie RBs, both teams are about 4-5 games worse. It doesn't matter if one goes from being the best and the other goes from being mediocre, the impact is the same. Just because one plays for a better team and his team has more to lose without him because of that doesn't mean that player has more of an impact.

OzTitan
12-11-2008, 09:13 PM
right, so the whole argument is that without CJ, the Titans O is still better than the Bears O without Forte. How good the rest of the team is has no bearing on how good the player is. The Titans are 12-1 and the Bears are 7-6. Without CJ the Titans are prolly around 7-6 and without Forte the Bears are prolly around 3-10. Guess what? Without their rookie RBs, both teams are about 4-5 games worse. It doesn't matter if one goes from being the best and the other goes from being mediocre, the impact is the same. Just because one plays for a better team and his team has more to lose without him because of that doesn't mean that player has more of an impact.

Don't know about that. As I pointed out, the Titans O is better ranked overall but with a worse ranked pass game. They rely on the run game more. Take away the reason it is #3 in the league (better ranked than last season despite downgrading at OG and losing a scrambling QB) and who knows how much the O falls. I don't think it's as easy as a linear decline, not when you rely on the run game as much as the Titans do, there may be no limit to how low it goes. Without either, both offenses would likely suck, but the suckiest? I don't know.

And as I said, I wasn't using this as a means to compare the two individually. I'm not saying the team success means which player is best. I've already said both raw impacts are hard to set apart. The topic I'm on is end of season awards, or more specifically, ranking the OROY list. It isn't just about raw stats. I think there are some MVP like elements to the rookie awards where applicable, and typically MVPs are players who make a top team tick. Most years it isn't applicable as rookies don't usually impact top teams that much but this year is exceptional in that regard.

Gay Ork Wang
12-11-2008, 09:15 PM
u really think that the Titans Offense would be worse than the Bears defense? REALLY?

OzTitan
12-11-2008, 09:34 PM
u really think that the Titans Offense would be worse than the Bears defense? REALLY?

Probably not, but I think the Titans offense could drop more placements ranking wise. As they are ranked better now than the Bears that may not mean a worse offense necessarily, but perhaps a larger net loss. I don't think it's out of the question though it could end up worse.

I think, if you take away Johnson, it has a more profound impact on the Titans offense. As I said, it's not some linear formula where you can take away the yards he has accumulated. The Titans wouldn't have a 2-RB offense anymore, which is the very foundation of the Titans offense. They wouldn't have any speed at all on offense. Nothing for a D to worry about really. What does that do to Kerry Collins? LenDale White wouldn't be coming in fresh like he does now. The Titans wouldn't just be losing a player, they'd be losing how they function on offense. That sort of impact is hard to measure, if not impossible really.

That's not to take anything away from Forte at all, I just don't think it's as easy as subtracting x wins and x yards away when you look at what the respective offense would be like without a player like these.

bearsfan_51
12-11-2008, 09:36 PM
It's amazing how much you've talked so far and how few points you've actually made. Yes, we know your opinion, there's no need to keep repeating the same thing. Unless of course you actually have something to support it other than what you think.

BamaFalcon59
12-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Matt Ryan is an amazing quarterback.

OzTitan
12-11-2008, 09:50 PM
It's amazing how much you've talked so far and how few points you've actually made. Yes, we know your opinion, there's no need to keep repeating the same thing. Unless of course you actually have something to support it other than what you think.

Well, people kept responding with questions, so I answered. It's not like this is a messageboard or anything though I guess, so sorry about that.

I think my largest point was don't worry Bears fans, I'm not here to challenge the theory that Matt Forte is the second coming of 'legendary Bears running back X', just making a case for Johnson's impact on the Titans. I mean, when we're talking about a guy factoring in 4% less of his team's offense with 61 less touches of the ball, I don't think it's too crazy a thing to try and do.

ThatThereCarGoin200mph
12-11-2008, 10:28 PM
*laughs* at the forte/bear fan homers, i'll give you credit you do support your team no matter what!

jth1331
12-12-2008, 12:08 AM
Only Matt Ryan deserves more credit than Forte.

Wrong, Ryan Clady. Clady is having an AMAZING season. As much as people talked about Joe Thomas last year, they should be talking about Ryan Clady this year.

Gay Ork Wang
12-12-2008, 02:27 AM
*laughs* at the forte/bear fan homers, i'll give you credit you do support your team no matter what!
u do know that u have said nothing but: CJ IS BETTER THAN FORTE, ONLY HOMERS SAY HE IS BETTER. OMGZZZ LOOK THEY DEFEND HIM, LOOK HOW BAD HE IS. GTFO and learn to argue

captainjack27
12-12-2008, 02:31 AM
*laughs* at the forte/bear fan homers, i'll give you credit you do support your team no matter what!

...and you're not a titan/CJ homer why???? at least others say something of value.

ThatThereCarGoin200mph
12-12-2008, 02:57 AM
^^^you people are funny there is no arguement, you live in the northeast and thats all you know or see, there are 100 backs who can average barely 4 ypc when made the focal point of their teams offense and then you harp on his receptions because of a bad qb who constantly checks down dont worry i wont respond to your crying any more so flame away plz! like i said *laughs*

fenikz
12-12-2008, 03:21 AM
DRC would be better than both at RB

Gay Ork Wang
12-12-2008, 06:10 AM
u absolutely have no idea what u are talking about right?

bearsfan_51
12-12-2008, 07:34 AM
^^^you people are funny there is no arguement, you live in the northeast and thats all you know or see,
Do you know where Chicago is on a map?

bored of education
12-12-2008, 07:39 AM
Do you know where Chicago is on a map?

Florida is West of New Mexico, right?

Sniper
12-12-2008, 07:57 AM
Florida is West of New Mexico, right?

And north of Alaska.

OzTitan
12-12-2008, 08:17 AM
Looking past the unnecessary aggressiveness, there is a point to be had in his argument. Rushing wise, Forte's numbers are not numbers I'd expect most NFL starter quality rookies to have trouble emulating in a similar situation.

Receiving wise, he has done well and clearly has talent catching the ball, but if the QB is forcing the ball to the RB a lot, it's usually a sign of a sketchy offense, with a few exceptions of course. Given the Bears offensive rank and QB situation, it seems to me like the Bears struggle to throw downfield much - Vince Young had a better YPA last season, for example. I'd say in a more capable offense, Forte wouldn't be catching as much and *perhaps* more RB's than you'd think could produce similar receiving stats given the same circumstances (i.e. Devin Hester being the best WR and Kyle Orton being the best QB, with not much depth at RB). Some teams will make an effort to make sure a young back isn't overused, but I'm not sure that is overly prevalent with the Bears.

Which leads to my last point. Probably the most impressive part about Forte is his durability more so than his production. Not that his production isn't impressive - it's impressive when any rookie comes in and assumes a starter role with ease - but for as many touches as he has had, you'd expect the 'rookie wall' to have hit some time ago. I think it's arguable a few of the rookie RB's this season and in recent seasons may be putting up similar stats in his shoes, but I reckon the list of ones being able to do it whilst still healthy at the end of the season is a lot smaller.

Gay Ork Wang
12-12-2008, 09:01 AM
Forget about evaluation, stats > everything

Kyle Orton is better than half of the starting QBs
btw Matt Forte said that he hit the rookie wall earlier this year which was purely mental

TitanHope
12-12-2008, 09:31 AM
Forte is a beast of a RB. He proved that to me in the Bears/Titans game. I think that both Forte and CJ are the offensive MVP's for their respective teams.

captainjack27
12-12-2008, 11:05 AM
^^^you people are funny there is no arguement, you live in the northeast and thats all you know or see, there are 100 backs who can average barely 4 ypc when made the focal point of their teams offense and then you harp on his receptions because of a bad qb who constantly checks down dont worry i wont respond to your crying any more so flame away plz! like i said *laughs*

You do know Chicago is in the Midwest? So, I'm not gonna respect the opinion of someone who doesn't know basic geography.

bigbluedefense
12-12-2008, 12:57 PM
*laughs* at the forte/bear fan homers, i'll give you credit you do support your team no matter what!

how are they homers?

he's the most complete RB in this draft class, and id go as far as saying that he's performed like the best RB in that amazing class thus far.

Gay Ork Wang
12-12-2008, 05:07 PM
how are they homers?

he's the most complete RB in this draft class, and id go as far as saying that he's performed like the best RB in that amazing class thus far.
sssshssst that wouldnt help his argument

cunningham06
12-16-2008, 12:57 PM
Well, how about we just settle this argument and say that Steve Slaton is better than either CJ or Forte? :)

sweetness34
12-16-2008, 01:31 PM
It should be noted that Tennessee's OL >>>> Chicago's OL. Our line is absolutely putrid. St. Clair is a POS, Garza is old as dirt, Kruetz messes up more times a game than he snaps the ball, Tait has about a year or two left, the only reason Beekman starts is because we have no one to replace him...Forte's vision and patience are really the thing that has helped him a lot this year because he rarely, and I mean rarely gets a good open hole to run through.

OzTitan
12-16-2008, 03:27 PM
Perhaps, but the Titans OL, particularly the interior, has been disappointing this season rushing the football. The Titans are not a "smash mouth" rushing team. When a defense wants to take away the run by stacking defenders between the tackles, the Titans run game generally suffers pretty severely. Of course, that's not helped by playcalling which hands Chris Johnson the ball 13 times a game, only a few of those in the entire 2nd half like they did against the Texans. The Titans almost threw at Justin McCareins more than giving it to their best offensive player. Yikes.

Gay Ork Wang
12-16-2008, 03:36 PM
Perhaps, but the Titans OL, particularly the interior, has been disappointing this season rushing the football. The Titans are not a "smash mouth" rushing team. When a defense wants to take away the run by stacking defenders between the tackles, the Titans run game generally suffers pretty severely. Of course, that's not helped by playcalling which hands Chris Johnson the ball 13 times a game, only a few of those in the entire 2nd half like they did against the Texans. The Titans almost threw at Justin McCareins more than giving it to their best offensive player. Yikes.
the Bears cant disappoint, everybody knows they suck