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View Full Version : Playing GM... How would you fix the Lions?


bigbuc
11-24-2008, 08:16 PM
Anyone? Lets hear it!!

GB12
11-24-2008, 08:17 PM
You can't.

MetSox17
11-24-2008, 08:19 PM
Move them to San Antonio.

scottyboy
11-24-2008, 08:20 PM
You gotta start with building in the trenches. If you can build an OL, you can win some games. I'm a big believer of winning games ala last years Giants with a pass rush and solid OL. Kevin Smith with a good OL along with Megatron could be a very nasty offense. I'd start with the best OT on the board if I'm Detroit. Work on that, but that's just me. Cherlius can be a very nice RT for them, not sure how he's doing. But either grab a LT or signal caller early round one, and with the Cowboys pick I'd go with some D help. Then again, I don't see much of the Lions, perhaps I'm wrong. I know we've got tons of great Lions fans on this site, so I'm interested in seeing what they've got to say.

D-Unit
11-24-2008, 08:20 PM
Hire John McDaniels and sign Matt Cassell. That's a big start.

Turtlepower
11-24-2008, 08:21 PM
Throw it to Megatron.

skinzzfan25
11-24-2008, 08:22 PM
Ask Barry Sanders if he wants to come back.

PACKmanN
11-24-2008, 08:24 PM
complete the defense early because they have a lot more young talent there then their offense. Then build the offense after the defense is completely built.

CantStopGregJones
11-24-2008, 08:26 PM
Draft:
1. God
1. Jesus
2. Christ
3. Moses
3. Samson
4. David
5. Superman
6. Spiderman
6. Batman
7. Connor Barwin

Its there only hope and even in Detroit they could fail.

scottyboy
11-24-2008, 08:27 PM
Draft:
1. God
1. Jesus
2. Christ
3. Moses
3. Samson
4. David
5. Superman
6. Spiderman
6. Batman
7. Connor Barwin

Its there only hope and even in Detroit they could fail.

so their first 4 picks should be Kenny Britt, Jamal Westerman, Tiqaun Underwood and Courtney Greene?

CantStopGregJones
11-24-2008, 08:29 PM
Kenny Britt and Jamaal Westerman are very underrated and can be big time players in the league, but Underwood and Greene are you kidding me? They're going to flop hard. Greene moves like he has concrete bricks as shoes.

scottyboy
11-24-2008, 08:29 PM
Kenny Britt and Jamaal Westerman are very underrated and can be big time players in the league, but Underwood and Greene are you kidding me? They're going to flop hard. Greene moves like he has concrete bricks as shoes.

I think you mean hits like he has concrete bricks as pec muscles...

Vox Populi
11-24-2008, 08:29 PM
Sign Matt Cassell. Pick up the top LT 1st overall and the top OG with the Cowboys pick. Then they go defense the rest of the draft. Sign Matt Cassell.

Right there they've got a young decently talented and experienced QB, a young sudly offensive line with some verteran talent at center. Megatron out wide, an RBC back field. Offense is already in decent position to improve right there :P

Why dont they just hire me, anyone could be an NFL GM :rolleyes:

MetSox17
11-24-2008, 08:32 PM
Hire John McDaniels and sign Matt Cassell. That's a big start.

That's not a bad idea. I had mentioned this earlier in regards to Cassell.. I would not take him without McDaniels as well.

Draft Eugene Monroe or Michael Oher and pray that Duke Robinson lasts to the Cowboys pick. Then take BDPA after that.

CashmoneyDrew
11-24-2008, 08:32 PM
Hire John McDaniels and sign Matt Cassell. That's a big start.

You read my mind. I was explaining this to my dad yesterday. It would then allow them to use their draft picks on the lines instead of having to use that first pick on Stafford, they could use it on Andre Smith instead. Then that second first rounder on best DL available.

CantStopGregJones
11-24-2008, 08:33 PM
I think you mean hits like he has concrete bricks as pec muscles...

I think you've been hit in the head by a homer brick.

Draft King
11-24-2008, 08:35 PM
Seeing what the Falcons did in the off-season I think it all starts with the franchise quarterback. Whether it is Matt Stafford, or Sam Bradford, I would personally take either of those two over the free-agent in Matt Cassell. After that, you need a big left-tackle to protect the back side. The Falcons' Sam Baker has played outstanding when not injured, and it showed when Michael Turner tore up the competition. If they do truely want Cassell, I see Michael Oher, Andre Smith, or Eugene Monroe being the pick here. Alot of work needs to be done with this franchise, but all they have to do is look across the league to see teams like the Dolphins and Falcons rebounding after embarassing seasons.

Brodeur
11-24-2008, 08:43 PM
Cut Kitna, Henson, Culpepper, Lenon, Dwight Smith, Brian Kelly, and some others I can't think of. Re-sign Dan Orlovsky, sign a defensive tackle, and go after Terrell Suggs with a massive ferocity.

Draft a LT with the first pick if unable to trade down, and then either move Backus inside to guard or cut him. With their second first round pick, draft either an inside linebacker, a DB, or a QB. Base the rest of the draft on this.

Oh yeah, and fire Rod Marinelli and the rest of the staff as soon as possible. Hiring McDaniels would be nice.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-24-2008, 08:46 PM
So I'm the GM of the Lions? I think I will become an hero.

Loggerhead
11-24-2008, 08:49 PM
Play IAF, Stanton, and Dizon to see what they can do. Fire Rod Marinelli who is a great man, former Marine, and a great D-line coach, but a ****** head coach. Give Kevin Smith the damn ball. Run the ball like you preached in training camp and base your passing game off play action like the Steelers did before last year. Cut Jeff Backus after the season ends. Draft a Michael Oher, Eugene Monroe, somebody to be your LT for a decade. Hire Ron Rivera as head coach. He comes from a Tampa 2 to continue to transition to that. Draft a DT with your other 1st rounder since having a DT who can shoot into the opposing backfield is central to a good Tampa 2. BENCH PARIS LENON!!!! He is a solid backup but ****** starter. Install a version of the spread since the Recievers still are the strenghth of this team.

Brodeur
11-24-2008, 08:54 PM
the Recievers still are the strenghth of this team.

No they aren't. Calvin is fantastic but Furrey and McDonald are mediocre number 3 options at best.

scottyboy
11-24-2008, 08:56 PM
I think you've been hit in the head by a homer brick.

me? a Rutgers homer? oh no!!! how wrong and insulting you are!

Babylon
11-24-2008, 08:59 PM
It's going to be a very deep OT class so i would get my tackle later on in round 1. If Matt Stafford turns out to be another Troy Aikman like i think he will Detroit is going to look pretty stupid passing him up. Early second round get a pass rusher and add a TE in round 3.

BeerBaron
11-24-2008, 09:01 PM
Fire.....everyone. Marinelli and all the coaches and any remnants of the FO still sticking around.

Then, I see if Cowher wants to come back and I throw any money at him that he could possibly want. Let him bring in a financial type guy of his choice to be GM while he gets final say over the personnel.

I'd encourage him to draft Stafford to build around, but it'd be his call really.

I'd want to rebuild similarly to how the Dolphins were rebuilt. Bring in a guy with previous head coaching success and allow him to bring in his people and build his team.

MetSox17
11-24-2008, 09:05 PM
Fire.....everyone. Marinelli and all the coaches and any remnants of the FO still sticking around.

Then, I see if Cowher wants to come back and I throw any money at him that he could possibly want. Let him bring in a financial type guy of his choice to be GM while he gets final say over the personnel.

I'd encourage him to draft Stafford to build around, but it'd be his call really.

I'd want to rebuild similarly to how the Dolphins were rebuilt. Bring in a guy with previous head coaching success and allow him to bring in his people and build his team.

I don't see what incentive whatsoever Bill Cowher would have for going to Detroit. Also, i wouldn't bring in a guy that would want to install a completely different defensive scheme than what your team was built for. I don't think you scrap the team completely, but build off the little bit you have.

SeanTaylorRIP
11-24-2008, 09:06 PM
"Draft Javon Ringer with the first pick"- Gosselin

A Perfect Score
11-24-2008, 09:08 PM
I think they need to follow the plans that some of the more recent teams (Falcons, Ravens) have laid in terms of restoring their teams. The similarities between those teams (a strong running game, effificent young QB's, adequate defense) need to be established by the lions. My steps would be as follows:

-clean house on the coaching staff. I like Marinelli, but it just hasnt been working. McDaniels is a hot name, but maybe someone like Rob Ryan would be a better choice to stiffen up that defense, and I bet he is just itching to get out of Oakland. Mike Nolan and Lane Kiffin are other guys worth taking a look at.
- Draft Stafford or Bradford. They have to. They have no one else to play the QB position. This draft is deep at OT and they have another first rounder to shore up that left side, and kick backus inside and let cherilus man the left side. Shoring up that oline with a first rounder and letting backus move inside would do wonder for the protection and the running game.
- Give Kevin Smith the **** ball. He has shown he can handle it and a good running game is a young QB's best friend.
- Shore up that defense, and hte best way to do that is with a new staff. It has been shown that scheme can help cover up some of the deficiencies in personelle, and bringing in a stud defensive coach like Ryan or Nolan would let them manipulate the scheme to compensate for the lack of talent. Let some of the younger guys play to see what they have.

Most of all, they need to get rid of the losing attitude. Thats what needs to be shaken off. The pieces are sort of there, they just have to get them moving.

The Dynasty
11-24-2008, 09:20 PM
Step 1: Fire the current Head Coach, Then Hire a Defensive Mind Coach. Cowher or Spagnualo would be the top choices.

Step 2: Start building the team from the Inside to the Outside. By Signing Defensive Lineman and Offensive Lineman in the Free Agency Period. Building in the trenches help you out a lot. Detroit's biggest problem has been protecting the QB and getting pressure. Second get a consistent run game by either Kevin Smith or Rudi Johnson. Third get a Cornerback that can stop a receiver. Fourth thing is to do is Throw it to Calvin Johnson. Use him like the Patriots or how the Vikings used Moss.

Step 3: Draft Matthew Stafford as a Franchise QB

Step 4: Start getting the players into believing in the new system.

MetSox17
11-24-2008, 09:27 PM
Step 1: Fire the current Head Coach, Then Hire a Defensive Mind Coach. Cowher or Spagnualo would be the top choices.

Step 2: Start building the team from the Inside to the Outside. By Signing Defensive Lineman and Offensive Lineman in the Free Agency Period. Building in the trenches help you out a lot. Detroit's biggest problem has been protecting the QB and getting pressure. Second get a consistent run game by either Kevin Smith or Rudi Johnson. Third get a Cornerback that can stop a receiver. Fourth thing is to do is Throw it to Calvin Johnson. Use him like the Patriots or how the Vikings used Moss.

Step 3: Draft Matthew Stafford as a Franchise QB

Step 4: Start getting the players into believing in the new system.

Cowher to Detroit is a pipe dream. Spagnuolo would seem a more logical choice, and he could come in and try to find some guys that can pressure the QB. I agree with the poster that said earlier they should go hard after Terrell Suggs. He's just what that defense needs.

As far as building the lines, i agree, but i don't think you do that through Free Agency. With their two firsts, they need to go best OL available on both picks. They have talent at WR and RB to get by, and if they were to sign Cassell, he could be decent to good for them.

They could go Malcolm Jenkins, then an OL, it's really either or at this point, but if you could solidify the offensive line, it would go a long way to help their consistency.

Sniper
11-24-2008, 09:29 PM
- Josh McDaniels and Matt Cassel, though I'm not as high on Cassel as others.
- Draft Andre Smith
- Draft a DE or another OL, whatever value is there, with Dallas' pick.
- Draft a DE or an OL, whichever wasn't picked in Dallas' spot, with their second rounder.
- Give Terrell Suggs their entire bankroll.
- Grab a corner in the third.
- Throw to Calvin every play.
- When not throwing to Calvin, give Kevin Smith the rock.

FinChase
11-24-2008, 09:33 PM
I wonder if Detroit really would go after Cassel? Is it just me or does his situation remind anyone of Scott Mitchell? Future HOF QB goes down early with a season-ending injury and his understudy steps in and plays well and earns a huge FA contract the next year. He went to Detroit, too. We know how well that worked out.

BTW, Patriots fans, I'm not hating on Matt Cassel or anything like that. He's impressed me. I'm just saying the the scenario is giving me deja vu.

Smokey Joe
11-24-2008, 09:38 PM
Burn them? Yeah, I think the only possible way is to burn them.

Brodeur
11-24-2008, 09:45 PM
I wonder if Detroit really would go after Cassel? Is it just me or does his situation remind anyone of Scott Mitchell? Future HOF QB goes down early with a season-ending injury and his understudy steps in and plays well and earns a huge FA contract the next year. He went to Detroit, too. We know how well that worked out.

BTW, Patriots fans, I'm not hating on Matt Cassel or anything like that. He's impressed me. I'm just saying the the scenario is giving me deja vu.

I already made that comparison and that's why I don't want Cassel as a Lion.

D-Unit
11-24-2008, 09:51 PM
Step 1: Fire the current Head Coach, Then Hire a Defensive Mind Coach. Cowher or Spagnualo would be the top choices.

Step 2: Start building the team from the Inside to the Outside. By Signing Defensive Lineman and Offensive Lineman in the Free Agency Period. Building in the trenches help you out a lot. Detroit's biggest problem has been protecting the QB and getting pressure. Second get a consistent run game by either Kevin Smith or Rudi Johnson. Third get a Cornerback that can stop a receiver. Fourth thing is to do is Throw it to Calvin Johnson. Use him like the Patriots or how the Vikings used Moss.

Step 3: Draft Matthew Stafford as a Franchise QB

Step 4: Start getting the players into believing in the new system.
Actually, that's what I think the Viking's plan should be.

Bruce Banner
11-24-2008, 10:02 PM
trade two 1sts, two 2nds, and 8 million in cash for gruden.

Sniper
11-24-2008, 10:03 PM
trade two 1sts, two 2nds, and 8 million in cash for gruden.

Should they throw in Calvin for good measure?

Bruce Banner
11-24-2008, 10:06 PM
Should they throw in Calvin for good measure?

Kitna. geriatrics (QB to boot!) FTW.

BroadwayJoe10
11-24-2008, 10:10 PM
-Well the first and most important step is already done and that was fire Matt Millen....the second step would be to fire anyone that had any connections with Millen; i liken him to an airborne disease, anything he came in contact with should just be gotten rid of.

-I would like to start seeing them play IAF and see what some of their rookies and 2nd year guys can do.

-Get rid of Marinelli; I like the guy and i liked what he preached in preseason, but i just don't see the philosophy that he talked about as much...which could very well be due to the terrible personnel.

-I think hiring Josh McDaniels for HC would be a fantastic idea; i'm 50/50 on signing Cassel. It's McDaniels guy and his contract probably would be equivalent to the type of ridiculous contract that Stafford would get as the #1 overall. So at least Cassel is a somewhat proven commodity.

If you sign Cassel than my offseason would look like this;

Draft:
1a. Monroe/Oher
1b. Orakpo/Hardy/Johnson etc.
2. Darry Beckwith maybe if Brandon spikes comes in

-Obviously if you don't sign Cassel than things change a bit. Bring in Stafford or Bradford. Land whatever tackle you can with the 2nd pick.

-If they do end up going with a rookie QB, than i truly love what the pats have done. Start off giving your QB short, high percentage passes, deal with the growing pains, which shouldnt be hard considering the bar isn't set too high in detroit, and really become a ball control rush oriented team. If they start to progress than give them more to work with.

Menardo75
11-25-2008, 12:40 AM
The first thing I would do this year would be to play Drew Stanton and see if they have anything there. If he shows enough on a team like this I would give him a shot.

If not I would call the Eagles in the offseason and see about getting McNabb, and if he could be had for less than a first round pick I would pull the trigger. I would not change much as far a scheme goes. I would stick with the tampa two. In the draft (this being McNabb is a Lion) I would take the best available OT with the first pick whether it be Andre Smith, or Michael Oher. Then with the second first rounder I would get the best available pass rusher or defensive player.

As far as coaching goes I would target Russ Grimm, or Josh Mcdaniels as head coach.

fenikz
11-25-2008, 01:08 AM
Russ Grimm really hasn't made our O-line any better

yourfavestoner
11-25-2008, 01:53 AM
How are the Detroit Lions going to be able to sign the top overall pick in the draft when the Ford family has no money?

BlindSite
11-25-2008, 02:21 AM
Step 1 - At all cost attempt to lure Jordan Gross away from Carolina in the offseason. Gross is a UFA, can play both tackle spots and has been listed on All pro teams from sports writers, though never selected to the probowl.

Step 2 - Draft trenches, Defensive end, defensive tackle, Centre and Guard are huge needs and my first round pick would be a defensive end, 2nd round pick interior lineman and third defensive tackle.

Step 3 - Hire Spagnuolo as your Head Coach

Step 4 - Sign a good older quarterback to mentor Stanton, give stanton full preseason games if you have to and give him the start from about week 4 onwards.

Step 5 - Stop trading away talent.

Other than that its clear that its a 3 year process for the lions but they at least have competent offensive threats at WR, and RB, and a centrepiece linebacker. What they need is pass rush, protection and someone in the secondary who can play.

MetSox17
11-25-2008, 09:21 AM
I think the fact that Culpepper was able to come in for three days and start ahead of Drew Stanton speaks volumes towards his ability to play in this league. I don't think you pass up drafting or signing a guy, just because you wanna see what Stanton can do.

Gay Ork Wang
11-25-2008, 09:26 AM
Actually, that's what I think the Viking's plan should be.
why would they sign more DLinemen?

TimD
11-25-2008, 09:33 AM
everyone is saying draft bradford or stafford, but if it wasn't for the amazing performance by ryan and flacco i don't think people would be saying that. i think the trenches are the most important positions for the lions to address. look at all the best teams in the league. great d-line and o-lines.

awfullyquiet
11-25-2008, 09:52 AM
How are the Detroit Lions going to be able to sign the top overall pick in the draft when the Ford family has no money?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 10:07 AM
I would do something like this:

Fire Rod Marinelli.
Interview Russ Grimm, Steve Spagnolo, Raheem Morris, Ron Rivera
Of those I'd bring in Steve Spagnolo... if they want to stick with the Tampa2 I'd lean Rivera with Morris as the DC.

Personel moves off the bat:

Move Ernie Sims to WLB.

Move Cliff Avril to SLB, and as a passrusher every so often.

Assuming they grab Spags... I could see them drafting

1) Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi

This Franchise is hurting for an elite LT. Oher can step in right away and make Jon Kitna the happiest man alive.

1) Everette Brown, DE, Florida State

They need an every down RDE that can get to the QB. Everette is a bit of a tweener. Athletic enough to be a Rushbacker in a 3-4 but that gives Spags some ability to use some zone blitzing. He could drop Brown in some coverage from the DE spot and still bring a blitz somewhere.

2) Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma

Robinson is another guy that can contribute early. I think he gets lazy in technique and allows defenders into his body far too often. But that is nothing a good offensive line coach can't help correct. Putting Oher, Robinson together on the left side will let them gel early in their career and might even help get a push in the run game. Hopefully Gosder Cherilus plays better.

3) Antoine Caldwell, C/OG, Alabama

One of the more dominant Centers I've seen come out of college, he has the skillset and athleticism to play either Guard or center. He could challenge both Raiola and Peterman for their positions as rookies IMO. I think Raiola is a better C than Peterson a RG so I'd lean that way. Though having 3 new starters on any OL is going to cause issues.

3) Travis Beckum, TE/WR, Wisconsin

Detroit has arguably the most gifted WR to come out of the draft in I don't even know how long. Having McDonald and Furrey beside him won't allow him to make plays. Beckum won't wow with his speed, but He will be a reliable pass catcher, and physical to boot. He'll instantly be one of the best blocking WR's in the league.

4) Scott McKillop, ILB, Pittsburgh

I think McKillop would be Spags dream ILB in this draft (I'm not completely 100% aware of how the guy works but..). McKillop while not the most agile/fastest guy on the field, he can make plays sideline to sideline, avoids being blocked out of plays, can shoot gaps with the best of them and managed to stop Pat White and Noel Devine for the most part. With Sims on the weakside and Avril on the strongside, McKillop gives them a reliable guy who won't ever make the "WOW!" plays but will make all the plays necessary.

5) DeAngelo Smith, CB, Cincinnati

Smith is a very underrated and talented CB to build up in the system. With the lack of talent in their secondary it's possible he could win a job as a rookie.

6) Roy Miller, DT, Texas

Roy Miller may be my favorite player to watch in this draft. Watching him almost every game I just can't understand why he isn't rated higher. He can penetrate the line, he can beat double teams, he's athletic enough to play some DE. He can collapse the pocket from the interior. If he continues to progress like I think he will you'll have a nice interior core of Redding, Fluellen and Miller. And possibly the next guy.

6) Clinton McDonald, DE/DT, Memphis

Work McDonald as Justin Tuck. He probably won't ever be as good, but he's a similar player. 6'2 285lbs very very athletic, could play SDE on 1st/2nd to help against the run, then move him inside to UT and let him rush the passer. If Hunt works out you can have McDonald inside fulltime.


This would give Spagnolo some key pieces to set his system up, With looking for the Franchise QB in 2010 draft/ a few other pieces.

This team isn't as bad off as it seems. Some coaching, a GM working with the Coach to get him the players he wants to coach.

And with 2 - 1st rounders, this could be a year to grab some premium talent and make a turnaround in 2 years provided the coach gets his players.

Then like I said. Focus on finding a franchise QB which could be:

Colt McCoy, Tim Hiller, Rusty Smith next draft. Grab an actual TE for the Rookie to have a safety valve.


In UDFA:

I'd look for an FB/RB... Fui Vakapuna of BYU would be a guy to develop into a lead blocker but is an excellent receiver/running back to be short yardage.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 10:09 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Because it's doesn't depend on the "Fords" Personal finances?

The Detroit Lions are a seperate entity, They split the NFL Pie like all 31 other teams do.

katnip
11-25-2008, 10:12 AM
trade down, if you can still get the qb you need.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 10:26 AM
trade down, if you can still get the qb you need.

Kitna is still a solid QB. Improve the line and then bring someone in that can step onto a team with all the pieces in place, he just has to bring them together.

Scotty D
11-25-2008, 10:28 AM
Kitna is still a solid QB. Improve the line and then bring someone in that can step onto a team with all the pieces in place, he just has to bring them together.

Kitna's Lion career is done. We put him on IR because we didn't want him back this year. Ernie already plays WLB and he has not looked good this year. Maybe the losing is getting to him.

Notredameleo
11-25-2008, 10:30 AM
Kitna will not be with us next year!!!

D-Rod
11-25-2008, 10:31 AM
1. Pay Cowher an F150-load of Ford money

2. Kidnap Romo so that the Cowboys collapse (really, that should be done just for giggles)

3. Double the money for Suggs or Peppers, if either hits free agency - can't play defense without a pass-rusher.

4. Ask the Browns really nicely if we can have Shaun Rogers back.

5a. Draft Sam Bradford or Matt Stafford
5b. Pray that a good LT falls to the Cowboys pick
5c. Draft Herman Johnson in the second

That's a pretty good start.

awfullyquiet
11-25-2008, 10:32 AM
Kitna's Lion career is done. We put him on IR because we didn't want him back this year. Ernie already plays WLB and he has not looked good this year. Maybe the losing is getting to him.

Kitna was mike martz punching doll.

The lions need more help than Bill Ford can afford.

MetSox17
11-25-2008, 10:35 AM
Kitna was mike martz punching doll.

The lions need more help than Bill Ford can afford.

And his career is done in Detroit regardless.

The Lions need way more help than one off-season can bring, but it'll be a good start by getting someone that can actually play the quarterback position.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 10:40 AM
Kitna's Lion career is done. We put him on IR because we didn't want him back this year. Ernie already plays WLB and he has not looked good this year. Maybe the losing is getting to him.

Could be the lack of help around him.

If not Kitna there is Matt Cassell/JP Losman.

I'm just saying get your defense and OL situated and bring a QB when thats what your team is lacking.

Key parts are there, the team is just missing a few pieces and some coaching.

What about my Draft, moving Avril to SLB?

Scotty D
11-25-2008, 10:47 AM
Could be the lack of help around him.

If not Kitna there is Matt Cassell/JP Losman.

I'm just saying get your defense and OL situated and bring a QB when thats what your team is lacking.

Key parts are there, the team is just missing a few pieces and some coaching.

What about my Draft, moving Avril to SLB?

I like most of it. If we hire Steve Spagnolo then I could see him using Avril the same as he did Kiwi with him playing SLB.

Babylon
11-25-2008, 10:52 AM
I wonder if Detroit really would go after Cassel? Is it just me or does his situation remind anyone of Scott Mitchell? Future HOF QB goes down early with a season-ending injury and his understudy steps in and plays well and earns a huge FA contract the next year. He went to Detroit, too. We know how well that worked out.

BTW, Patriots fans, I'm not hating on Matt Cassel or anything like that. He's impressed me. I'm just saying the the scenario is giving me deja vu.



I'm in that camp that thinks you don't put average QBs with bad teams and expect big results. Cassel has done great but let's face it he's with the Patriots. He doesnt handle a pass rush very well and he doesn't have Brady's arm. He'd probably fit in better with a Tampa Bay or a Minnesota.

bigbluedefense
11-25-2008, 10:56 AM
GM: Mike Holmgren
HC: Ron Rivera

Defense: Rivera's man Tampa 2
Offense: WCO

Draft the trenches up first, they NEED an LT and probably an OG, and they NEED a DE and DT (and pretty much a whole new defense minus Ernie Simms).

FA:

1. Sign McNabb who will get cut. Or Jeff Garcia
2. Sign Guy Whimper as an LT in case you don't get one in the draft, if anything he's good depth, and allows you to slowly develop any LT you draft.
3. Pete Kendall/Jon Runyan/Tra Thomas. whichever one is available, slap that puppy at LG or RG
4. Sign Tank Johnson to play NT in your Tampa 2

Draft:
with your 1st 2 picks, draft a LT and DE, then go after best available defensive player or offensive linemen throughout the rest of the draft.


And just try to build it from there. If you can nab a stud DE and a high motor round 3 DT the dline will be respectable. You desperately need an LB to play next to Simms. A run thumper preferably.

Establish a heavy dose of running with some Megatron action, and just hope thats enough for now as you continue to rebuild. The secondary will have to wait, you gotta build up that front 7 first. Its pathetic. Try to nab some FAs from teams with pedigree, that helps sometimes when it comes to getting bargain blue collar guys.

But first and foremost, you gotta build those lines. It all starts there. With heavy investment in both lines, and with Rivera instilling some discipline there with Holmgren drafting, its a start.

awfullyquiet
11-25-2008, 11:01 AM
4. Sign Tank Johnson to play NT in your Tampa 2


novel idea.

here's another thing.

the lions HAVE to start winning. they're not going to have enough money to sign top of the draft first round talent for a few more years. either that. or they won't get anyone to sign unless they get massive amounts of guaranteed money.

katnip
11-25-2008, 11:02 AM
Kitna is still a solid QB. Improve the line and then bring someone in that can step onto a team with all the pieces in place, he just has to bring them together.

Kitna? Yea...

bigbluedefense
11-25-2008, 11:05 AM
novel idea.

here's another thing.

the lions HAVE to start winning. they're not going to have enough money to sign top of the draft first round talent for a few more years. either that. or they won't get anyone to sign unless they get massive amounts of guaranteed money.

Thats why I think hiring Rivera as coach and Holmgren as GM is a start. You give your front office instant credibility. Rivera is a no nonesense standup guy when it comes to coaching and accountability. Holmgren's reputation speaks for itself.

It all starts up top, and I think getting that duo up top is a good start. Rivera will bring some toughness to that team. He'll make necessary adjustments to that defense, he knows the division, he'll be a good hire.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 11:12 AM
I like most of it. If we hire Steve Spagnolo then I could see him using Avril the same as he did Kiwi with him playing SLB.

Watching Avril come out I always felt his best position would be SLB in a Spagnolo style defense because I just didn't feel he's an every down DE and frankly getting 3 downs out of him (2 at LB, 1 at DE) maximizes your investment and his ability. He's definitely got the ability to do that at a high level.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Thats why I think hiring Rivera as coach and Holmgren as GM is a start. You give your front office instant credibility. Rivera is a no nonesense standup guy when it comes to coaching and accountability. Holmgren's reputation speaks for itself.

It all starts up top, and I think getting that duo up top is a good start. Rivera will bring some toughness to that team. He'll make necessary adjustments to that defense, he knows the division, he'll be a good hire.

Are you saying Rivera because you think he'd be better or Rivera because you don't like the idea of them getting Spagnolo.

If they had to pick one I'd think they're better off with Spags.

awfullyquiet
11-25-2008, 11:14 AM
Are you saying Rivera because you think he'd be better or Rivera because you don't like the idea of them getting Spagnolo.

If they had to pick one I'd think they're better off with Spags.

Wow. The biased calling the biased biased.

Confusing eh? I can't wrap my head around it.

bigbluedefense
11-25-2008, 11:16 AM
Are you saying Rivera because you think he'd be better or Rivera because you don't like the idea of them getting Spagnolo.

If they had to pick one I'd think they're better off with Spags.

I don't see Spags leaving for Detroit. I can see Spagnuolo going to Minny though.

He's easily the hottest coaching commodity (outside of Cowher) this year, he'll get to choose where he wants to go. He turned down teams last year because he didn't like the fits, i doubt he'll risk his coaching future by accepting the Detroit job. It makes no sense for him.

Rivera on the other hand, has been looking to be a HC for years now, and never gets a chance. I think he'd take this if the offer is on the table. Detroit has to take what they can get. They won't get Spags or Cowher. Rivera is much more realistic.

I think Spags is a lock to take the Minny job if he decides to leave the Giants personally.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 11:17 AM
I don't see Spags leaving for Detroit. I can see Spagnuolo going to Minny though.

He's easily the hottest coaching commodity (outside of Cowher) this year, he'll get to choose where he wants to go. He turned down teams last year because he didn't like the fits, i doubt he'll risk his coaching future by accepting the Detroit job. It makes no sense for him.

Rivera on the other hand, has been looking to be a HC for years now, and never gets a chance. I think he'd take this if the offer is on the table. Detroit has to take what they can get. They won't get Spags or Cowher. Rivera is much more realistic.

I think Spags is a lock to take the Minny job if he decides to leave the Giants personally.

Has Detroit hired a GM yet? Because in such case, if Spags has say in who comes in as GM to work with him... That could be a way to get rolling in Detroit.

But I agree.

I see Spags to Minnesota.. Grimm to Detroit.

bigbluedefense
11-25-2008, 11:20 AM
Has Detroit hired a GM yet? Because in such case, if Spags has say in who comes in as GM to work with him... That could be a way to get rolling in Detroit.

But I agree.

I see Spags to Minnesota.. Grimm to Detroit.

Forgot about Grimm. Grimm would be an excellent choice as well.

Minny is a perfect fit for Spags. He has a killer defense he wants, killer run game, he'll lure McNabb to Minny with his Philly connections, its perfect. It makes way too much sense not to happen.

BBIB
11-25-2008, 11:41 AM
The Lions have the worst defense in the NFL.

But they should start with taking the best OT in the 1st round. Start like the Dolphins did with Jake Long and hope that Andre Smith can be that guy.

After that they could take a QB late in the 1st or take one in Free Agency. But honestly I don't see McNabb or Cassell wanting to go there.

The main focus on the rest of their draft should be their defense. Defense starts in the trenches and I assume the Lions are not very good there.

THey should sure it up with Dlinemen, then get some help at LB and DB.


It's going to take a couple of drafts to fix this situation but the 2009 draft could be a good start.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 11:51 AM
Forgot about Grimm. Grimm would be an excellent choice as well.

Minny is a perfect fit for Spags. He has a killer defense he wants, killer run game, he'll lure McNabb to Minny with his Philly connections, its perfect. It makes way too much sense not to happen.

If Grimm goes to Detroit, I expect Emil Boures to go, I talk to his son, and frankly, they're some of the better filmwork guys i've talked to.

I expect between those 2 OL coaches that OL In detroit would be beastly.

bigbluedefense
11-25-2008, 11:56 AM
Man it must be so much fun for GMs tackling projects like this. You feel like a kid in a candy store. Basically you get to build a team from scratch.

Of course theres a ton of pressure that comes with that, but hey, if you love what you do, you don't mind it at all.

Monomach
11-25-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't think you scrap the team completely, but build off the little bit you have.

Haven't they been trying to do this and failing for about 300 years now?

If ever a team needed to be blown up...

MetSox17
11-25-2008, 01:54 PM
Man it must be so much fun for GMs tackling projects like this. You feel like a kid in a candy store. Basically you get to build a team from scratch.

Of course theres a ton of pressure that comes with that, but hey, if you love what you do, you don't mind it at all.

More like a kid in a store full of crappy candy.

Scotty D
11-25-2008, 01:56 PM
More like a kid in a store full of crappy candy.

5 picks in the top 100 (including the #1), 30 million in cap space, Calvin Johnson

Sounds like the building blocks for a hungry GM looking to make his mark.

ccB
11-25-2008, 02:04 PM
Cut Kitna, Henson, Culpepper, Lenon, Dwight Smith, Brian Kelly, and some others I can't think of. Re-sign Dan Orlovsky, sign a defensive tackle, and go after Terrell Suggs with a massive ferocity.

Draft a LT with the first pick if unable to trade down, and then either move Backus inside to guard or cut him. With their second first round pick, draft either an inside linebacker, a DB, or a QB. Base the rest of the draft on this.

Oh yeah, and fire Rod Marinelli and the rest of the staff as soon as possible. Hiring McDaniels would be nice.

If Terrell Suggs isn't in Baltimore he will be in Zona, there is no chance of him wanting to play for Detroit no matter what money they throw at him.

Race for the Heisman
11-25-2008, 02:43 PM
1. Make a trade with Seattle work (Seattle wants Matt Stafford).

- 3 -
a. Andre Smith
b. Michael Oher
- 25 -
a. Duke Robinson/Herman Johnson
b. DE: George Selvie
c. ILB: Brandon Spikes/James Laurinaitis
d. OL: Ciron Black/Alex Mack/Phil Loadholt
- 33 -
a. DE: George Selvie
b. OL: Ciron Black/Alex Mack/Phil Loadholt
c. DT: Vince Oghobaase/Sen'derrick Marks
- 65 -
a. DE: Matt Shaughnessy/Auston English
b. TE: Brandon Pettigrew/Travis Beckum

Something like that. I lost interest about halfway though. After all, it is Detroit.

The Legend
11-25-2008, 05:47 PM
You hire Josh McDaniels
He hires Charlie Weis & Romeo Crennel after they get fired
Then you sign Matt Cassell

Babylon
11-25-2008, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE=Race for the Heisman;1334782]1. Make a trade with Seattle work (Seattle wants Matt Stafford).

sssssh it's supposed to be a secret.;)

MidwayMonster31
11-25-2008, 06:20 PM
This will be difficult, but I like a challenge.
I'll go with Steve Spagnulo as the head coach and Kevin Abrams (Giants assistant GM) as the GM.
Free Agents:
Kyle Boller QB as a backup.
Mike Goff C
Marcus Tubbs DT
Chris Gamble CB

Draft:
(1): Matthew Stafford QB
(1 Dallas): Everette Brown or Michael Johnson DE
(2): Trevard Lindley CB
(3): Dannell Ellerbe MLB
(3 Dallas): Jamon Meredith OT
(4): Chip Vaughn SS
(5): Paul Fanaika OG
(6): Kory Sheets RB
(7): Brice McCain CB

This is far from complete, but it's a start. This team can be somewhat competitive, but there is a long way to go.

GB12
11-25-2008, 06:28 PM
I don't get why everyone keeps saying they should hire Spagnulo. That'd be a horrible fit for both parties.

Brodeur
11-25-2008, 07:00 PM
I don't get why everyone keeps saying they should hire Spagnulo. That'd be a horrible fit for both parties.

Rivera or McDaniels needs to be the hire.

yourfavestoner
11-25-2008, 07:26 PM
5 picks in the top 100 (including the #1), 30 million in cap space, Calvin Johnson

Sounds like the building blocks for a hungry GM looking to make his mark.

Again, what is $30 million in cap space going to do when the owner of the franchise doesn't have any money?

Bruce Banner
11-25-2008, 07:49 PM
Again, what is $30 million in cap space going to do when the owner of the franchise doesn't have any money?

How are they going to pay their players next year?

Just stop.

GB12
11-25-2008, 07:50 PM
Rivera or McDaniels needs to be the hire.
I think McDaniels would be a great fit for the Lions. They'll probably have a hard time getting him though.

bored of education
11-25-2008, 07:51 PM
Hire John McDaniels and sign Matt Cassell. That's a big start.

Draft an LT or DE. Go from there as well. Oh Polian as my co gm :D

Iamcanadian
11-25-2008, 08:50 PM
As long as WC Ford owns the team, we aren't going anywhere. I'm guessing he retains Mayhew as his GM because he is comfortable with him and isn't looking for a GM who wants to clean house. Ford is I believe 83 and I doubt he is prepared to hire anybody who wants to make substantial changes within the organization which is full of his cronies.
Marinelli will be fired but that's a forgone conclusion and who Mayhew hires is anybodies guess. The top HC prospects won't come to Detroit, they'll avoid working for WC Ford if at all possible. Ron Rivera might come just to get back at Lovie Smith who fired him.
As for the draft, it should be Stafford but this is Detroit where drafting QB's always leads to failure so they'll draft Smith a LT even though NE, Indy, Pittsburgh, the Giants, San Diego, Tennessee and Dallas all have non 1st rounders playing LT for them. Their 2nd first rounder will likely be a DE, whose ever still available.
While 30 million in cap space sounds like a lot of money, the 1st overall pick is likely to cost them 20+ million in year 1 when you add in his signing bonus, maybe even more. The 2nd 1st rounder could cost around 10 million with his signing bonus and if they pass on Stafford, then they'll have to sign a QB who will suck up the remaining cap space leaving them little money to procure anymore FA's.
It will take the team another 2 years to clean their books of all the non producing players who Millen overvalued and over paid. It will be another 3 years before they have a real shot at rebuilding the team, and that's if WCF hires a GM who knows what he is doing which isn't very likely, especially as he will have to deal with all the incompetents still entrenched within the Lion's organization including one of the worst scouting departments in the NFL.
The organization is a total mess from top to bottom due to Ford's ineptitude and that isn't likely to change until he gives up the reigns to his son and who knows if he will be any better. No talented GM is going to want to come to Detroit without a guarantee that he has the full authority to run the ship and WCF will never offer that guarantee to any GM so you can cross off the bright young GM types. Remember, Detroit has I believe 1 playoff appearance in close to 50 years, we stunk before Millen, during Millen and we will likely stink after Millen. Welcome to Detroit football under WCF.

diabsoule
11-25-2008, 09:12 PM
It should take 3 years for a complete overhaul. This offseason is crucial and a competent GM & HC should see rewards this season.

I'd love to take over this position.

First off, I doubt Josh McDaniels is leaving NE. Belichick was mad when Mangini left and I doubt he'll let McDaniels leave. Spagnuolo is an option but I feel he would go to a team that doesn't have a Tampa 2 system already established. What the Lions would need to do is abandon the Tampa 2 and move to a Cover 2, which is easier.

It's going to be hard finding a HC that'd be the perfect fit for the Lions. You have to decide whether you want an offensive or defensive minded head coach. However, no matter which way you go you need a coordinator to compliment them. So, an offensive head coach will need a great, hopefully young, defensive coordinator to balance them out and vice-versa.

What I would do if I were in a position is to hire an offensive minded coach but one that is known for his game in the trenches. That coach would be Russ Grimm. I would then suggest him to hire Raheem Morris or Ron Rivera for a DC position. You would then have an offensive coordinator who could coach the trenches and instill enough discipline to keep a young QB upright, and a DC that would develop a scheme that fits their Cover 2 personnel.

So, with that being said, an offensive minded HC and a Cover 2 DC I would address these positions in the offseason:

1. Jordan Gross, OT
2. Mike Goff, OG
3. Angelo Crowell, LB
4. Bo Scaife, TE
5. LaMont Jordan, RB

With the two offensive signings that would address the left side of the offensive line. Jeff Backus would then move to RT and George Foster would become the backup that he should be. The young QB that should be drafted will then be protected. Angelo Crowell will help solidify the linebackers and Jordan will compliment Kevin Smith in the backfield.

Although my plan would be to draft a top signal caller I do like them to sit. Sure, there are some young success stories like Matt Ryan, but overall I would prefer the QB to sit and learn so I would struggle with another year of Daunte Culpepper/Dan Orlovsky under center than ruin the psyche of my young QB.

So here's my draft:

1. Matthew Stafford, QB
1a. Everette Brown, DE
2. Evander Hood, DT
3. Victor Harris, CB
3. Larry English, DE

I'm not going past the third round but those 5 picks should give you the QB of the future, a Cover 2 DT, a Cover 2 CB, and two Cover 2 DE's that should apply tons of pressure. Add them along with the FA's and you should have at least a decent year especially with Grimm at HC and Rivera at DC.

GB12
11-25-2008, 09:15 PM
Why would Rivera leave San Diego for Detroit?

diabsoule
11-25-2008, 09:16 PM
Why would Rivera leave San Diego for Detroit?

If he was made DC/Asst. HC then I'm sure he would.

GB12
11-25-2008, 09:19 PM
If he was made DC/Asst. HC then I'm sure he would.
That'd be quite the step down in defensive talent to work with just for meaningless title of assistant head coach.

Iamcanadian
11-25-2008, 09:23 PM
It should take 3 years for a complete overhaul. This offseason is crucial and a competent GM & HC should see rewards this season.

I'd love to take over this position.

First off, I doubt Josh McDaniels is leaving NE. Belichick was mad when Mangini left and I doubt he'll let McDaniels leave. Spagnuolo is an option but I feel he would go to a team that doesn't have a Tampa 2 system already established. What the Lions would need to do is abandon the Tampa 2 and move to a Cover 2, which is easier.

It's going to be hard finding a HC that'd be the perfect fit for the Lions. You have to decide whether you want an offensive or defensive minded head coach. However, no matter which way you go you need a coordinator to compliment them. So, an offensive head coach will need a great, hopefully young, defensive coordinator to balance them out and vice-versa.

What I would do if I were in a position is to hire an offensive minded coach but one that is known for his game in the trenches. That coach would be Russ Grimm. I would then suggest him to hire Raheem Morris or Ron Rivera for a DC position. You would then have an offensive coordinator who could coach the trenches and instill enough discipline to keep a young QB upright, and a DC that would develop a scheme that fits their Cover 2 personnel.

So, with that being said, an offensive minded HC and a Cover 2 DC I would address these positions in the offseason:

1. Jordan Gross, OT
2. Mike Goff, OG
3. Angelo Crowell, LB
4. Bo Scaife, TE
5. LaMont Jordan, RB

With the two offensive signings that would address the left side of the offensive line. Jeff Backus would then move to RT and George Foster would become the backup that he should be. The young QB that should be drafted will then be protected. Angelo Crowell will help solidify the linebackers and Jordan will compliment Kevin Smith in the backfield.

Although my plan would be to draft a top signal caller I do like them to sit. Sure, there are some young success stories like Matt Ryan, but overall I would prefer the QB to sit and learn so I would struggle with another year of Daunte Culpepper/Dan Orlovsky under center than ruin the psyche of my young QB.

So here's my draft:

1. Matthew Stafford, QB
1a. Everette Brown, DE
2. Evander Hood, DT
3. Victor Harris, CB
3. Larry English, DE

I'm not going past the third round but those 5 picks should give you the QB of the future, a Cover 2 DT, a Cover 2 CB, and two Cover 2 DE's that should apply tons of pressure. Add them along with the FA's and you should have at least a decent year especially with Grimm at HC and Rivera at DC.

I love your draft but Grimm has been passed over so many times by a lot of very good GM's so I really question if he has the skills. Why would Rivera accept the DC position when he is already the DC of San Diego which has 11 times the talent of Detroit on defense. That makes no sense.
Finally, giving a list of FA's you would sign is great but the problem is Detroit doesn't have the cap space to sign more than maybe one of them and even that could be a stretch.
Finally how would you handle WC Ford who I believe isn't about to give his GM any authority to clean house of all the incompetents within the organization, including one of the worst scouting departments in pro football if not the worst.

RaiderNation
11-25-2008, 09:49 PM
Sign Matt Cassell or trade for McNabb. Draft Andre Smith with 1st pick. Go LB or DE with next picks

illmatic74
11-25-2008, 09:50 PM
Sign Matt Cassell or trade for McNabb. Draft Andre Smith with 1st pick. Go LB or DE with next picksPlease take Matt Cassel.

diabsoule
11-25-2008, 10:36 PM
I love your draft but Grimm has been passed over so many times by a lot of very good GM's so I really question if he has the skills. Why would Rivera accept the DC position when he is already the DC of San Diego which has 11 times the talent of Detroit on defense. That makes no sense.
Finally, giving a list of FA's you would sign is great but the problem is Detroit doesn't have the cap space to sign more than maybe one of them and even that could be a stretch.
Finally how would you handle WC Ford who I believe isn't about to give his GM any authority to clean house of all the incompetents within the organization, including one of the worst scouting departments in pro football if not the worst.

The Lion's should have at least around $15.2 million in cap space heading into next year, which should be enough to sign at least two sizable free agents, which is what I have them doing.

That's true about Grimm, and it does make me question him being hired as a HC for any organization. However, Detroit is almost as bad as Oakland and is starting to reek of desperation. Grimm could possibly be someone who would rather step in as HC than linger as an OC/Asst. HC somewhere else.
If I had to settle for a positions coach I'd go with Rivera, and he is someone who I fought hard with during my original proposal. If Rivera is hired as HC then I would campaign hard for him to hire Raheem Morris as his DC. With both of those two as defensive minded coaches then I would believe that they could turn around the talent that Detroit has on that side of the ball. However, they would have to go after an offensive talent at OC.

A more prudent proposal would be this:

Ron Rivera - HC
Raheem Morris (hopefully) - DC
OC candidates - Jerald Ingram, Pat Flaherty, or Mike Munchak

FA signings:

1. Stacey Andrews, OL
2. Vernon Carey, OL
3. Angelo Crowell, LB
4. Bo Scaife, TE
5. LaMont Jordan, RB

And then I would do the same draft.

Leon Sandcastle
11-25-2008, 11:03 PM
Sign Matt Cassell. Pick up the top LT 1st overall and the top OG with the Cowboys pick. Then they go defense the rest of the draft. Sign Matt Cassell.

Right there they've got a young decently talented and experienced QB, a young sudly offensive line with some verteran talent at center. Megatron out wide, an RBC back field. Offense is already in decent position to improve right there :P

Why dont they just hire me, anyone could be an NFL GM :rolleyes:

Good template.

Hire Josh McDaniels

Sign Matt Cassell

Draft Michael Oher and Duke Robinson with their two 1st Rders.

Or Hire Bill Cowher

Trade for Donovan McNabb

TimD
11-25-2008, 11:07 PM
if detroit trades their number 1 pick away they should trade for the other teams 1st but then some players. theres no way they can pay all the 1st and 2nd rounders they'll have and still field a roster of other adequate players. theres only so many top pick/superstars you can have

diabsoule
11-25-2008, 11:12 PM
Good template.

Hire Josh McDaniels

Sign Matt Cassell

Draft Michael Oher and Duke Robinson with their two 1st Rders.

Or Hire Bill Cowher

Trade for Donovan McNabb

I highly doubt they would hire Bill Cowher. They have nothing in place for him. He'd rather run a 3-4 than a Tampa 2 4-3. Also, Donovan McNabb would do nothing be a slightly better version of Daunte Culpepper at this point.

Hiring Josh McDaniels would do wonders but I doubt he leave NE as I pointed out earlier. They wo0uld also have to get into a bidding war for Matt Cassell which I doubt they would win, although if they did win it would make them have one less need heading into the draft.

Babylon
11-25-2008, 11:27 PM
if detroit trades their number 1 pick away they should trade for the other teams 1st but then some players. theres no way they can pay all the 1st and 2nd rounders they'll have and still field a roster of other adequate players. theres only so many top pick/superstars you can have


That's what i'm counting on.

Bruce Banner
11-25-2008, 11:34 PM
That's what i'm counting on.

Bucs trading up to the #1 for that QB, eh?

Babylon
11-25-2008, 11:46 PM
Bucs trading up to the #1 for that QB, eh?

Safe bet it won't be Detroit making it.

Iamcanadian
11-26-2008, 04:46 AM
The Lion's should have at least around $15.2 million in cap space heading into next year, which should be enough to sign at least two sizable free agents, which is what I have them doing.

That's true about Grimm, and it does make me question him being hired as a HC for any organization. However, Detroit is almost as bad as Oakland and is starting to reek of desperation. Grimm could possibly be someone who would rather step in as HC than linger as an OC/Asst. HC somewhere else.
If I had to settle for a positions coach I'd go with Rivera, and he is someone who I fought hard with during my original proposal. If Rivera is hired as HC then I would campaign hard for him to hire Raheem Morris as his DC. With both of those two as defensive minded coaches then I would believe that they could turn around the talent that Detroit has on that side of the ball. However, they would have to go after an offensive talent at OC.

A more prudent proposal would be this:

Ron Rivera - HC
Raheem Morris (hopefully) - DC
OC candidates - Jerald Ingram, Pat Flaherty, or Mike Munchak

FA signings:

1. Stacey Andrews, OL
2. Vernon Carey, OL
3. Angelo Crowell, LB
4. Bo Scaife, TE
5. LaMont Jordan, RB

And then I would do the same draft.

I like the Rivera as HC hiring and think he would be sound. However, after being demoted from DC to just another coach he may have to have some time to resurect his career even though he got promoted again. When you get fired as a DC, teams usually don't rush out to sign you as a HC.
I don't see where you are getting 15.2 million from. Please explain. The 1st pick in the draft will command somewhere around a 15 million signing bonus plus salary. The 2nd 1st rounder will get around a 10 million dollar signing bonus plus salary although I'm too lazy right now to look up the exact figures. That's around 25 million dollars right there which is all the free cap space I can come close to projecting. If they draft Stafford, there is no way he is capable of starting in his 1st season since he'll be coming out as a junior and will likely ride the bench his 1st season. That means they will likely retain Culpepper which would suck up any remaining cap space so I just don't see where you are getting the cap dollars to sign anybody this coming season. Remember at this point in the season they only have Roy Williams cap dollars available and I even if Rogers comes off their books and they cut a few veterans, I only see them having peanuts in cap space and they still have to sign their draft picks???
Even if they can create more cap space by cutting a large # of previous starters and going with rookies to save money, why would you spend that cap money on high priced FA's when the team won't be competitive for another 3 years. Smart teams hide their cap money in these situations and only spend it when they know they finally have a chance to compete. Wasting it now on high priced FA's when you have no chance to compete isn't likely to be very productive.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-26-2008, 04:51 AM
I don't see where you are getting 15.2 million from. Please explain. The 1st pick in the draft will command somewhere around a 20+ million signing bonus plus salary. The 2nd 1st rounder will get around a 10 million dollar signing bonus plus salary although I'm too lazy right now to look up the exact figures. That's around 37 million dollars right there which is all the free cap space I can come close to projecting.

As far as I'm aware, no team ever lets the signing bonus or guaranteed count against one year's cap. You should be able to split the guaranteed cash evenly among the length of the contract. And I have no idea where you're getting these bonus figures.

Assuming the first round pick signs a 6 year contract and the second round pick signs a 4 year contract, that shouldn't total much more than 5.5 million against the 2009 cap even if the Lions wind up picking first or second overall (based on the figures I could find from the 2008 draft).

Iamcanadian
11-26-2008, 06:04 AM
As far as I'm aware, no team ever lets the signing bonus or guaranteed count against one year's cap. You should be able to split the guaranteed cash evenly among the length of the contract. And I have no idea where you're getting these bonus figures.

Assuming the first round pick signs a 6 year contract and the second round pick signs a 4 year contract, that shouldn't total much more than 5.5 million against the 2009 cap even if the Lions wind up picking first or second overall (based on the figures I could find from the 2008 draft).


Ryan signed for 72 million last year which would equate to 12 million a year over 6 seasons although it is very tough to gage how much he actually would get. I don't believe contracts are split evenly over the 6 seasons. The GM's don't want to be in a position that if they have a flop, they won't be able to get rid of him after say 3 or 4 years without taking a big cap hit so they likely front load the guaranteed money so if he flops they can get rid of him without it hurting them too much cap wise and backload the non guaranteed money so they don't have to pay it all should the player turnout to be a flop.
So it is anybody's guess what say Stafford will actually get in year 1 should Detroit draft him #1 overall with their 1st pick. If anybody has some information please share it. I'm also not sure how bonus are prorated especially as it is guaranteed money and to a team's benefit to pay off early should a player flop. So if anybody has any idea of what Ryan actually received in year 1 please feel free to post it.
As far as I know we will have Roy and Rogers off the books next year and I would appreciate it if someone could post a list of our URFA's so we can actually calculate our cap space for next year rather than just throwing around figures.

Scott Wright
11-26-2008, 06:10 AM
The $72 million dollar figure was thrown around for Matt Ryan but there was A LOT of filler in that number in terms of unlikely to be earned incentives, etc. Ryan still got a lot of loot but basically his cap number right now is the guaranteed money ($35 million) plus the league minimum divided over the length of the deal. So probably something in the neighborhood of $6.5 million per year, but don't quote me on it. Granted that can and probably will go up as he reaches some of the incentives but there is virtually no chance of him maxing out the $72 million.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-26-2008, 08:30 AM
The cap numbe in year 1 and year 2 of top first round draft picks is never that high Canadian.

JaMarcus's number is 4 million this year. Calvins cap number is 3.5 million with the number 2 pick in year 2.

And the Lions will have 21 million, plus there are some cuts we can make to get us over the 30 million mark for sure. Dwight Smith,Brain Kelly, Mulitalo,Travis Fisher,Keith Smith,Kitna,DeVries etc. All contracts that save us money if we cut them because they only have 1 or 2 year left and they are mostly in salary. The Lions don't have many bad contracts because our high priced free agents Bly,Woody,Kennoy Kennedy, Kalimba Edwards, Fernando Bryant etc have already been purged from our books and all the 1st round busts have been purged from our books. We didn't re-sign any 1st round draft picks other than Backus, who this year is cuttable finally.

Here is the Lions cap situation I found. Pretty accurate every year. We will have money Canadian. You need to understand that and that the first round pick won't be some awful number in year 1 or year 2. And I'll be suprised if Mayhew is back if we go 0-16. Mayhew was Millens first hire, how in the world can he even be considered.

http://www.thenetrat.com/

According to this Matt Ryans cap number is 2.8 million.
http://www.ianwhetstone.com/football/cap.html

MetSox17
11-26-2008, 10:54 AM
Call me crazy, but i have a hard time believing that those numbers are accurate. Their signing bonus alone, should have a higher cap hit than those you've mentioned.

I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound correct.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-26-2008, 11:06 AM
Call me crazy, but i have a hard time believing that those numbers are accurate. Their signing bonus alone, should have a higher cap hit than those you've mentioned.

I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound correct.


Not sure on the Ryan number. I know the Calvin Johnson number is defintiley accurate at 3.5 million in his second year. So if its Calvin 3.5 million it makes sense Russell is around 4 million in year 2(jumping up to 13 million in year 3).

Either way we are not talking huge numbers for rookies in their first 2 years no matter where the pick. Rookie cap numbers get huge because their salaries increase enormously around year 3-year 5 and usually they earn incentives and they can have a huge roster/incentive bonus in certain years of the contract.

Not that I want the Lions to do this but Oakland had JaMarcus Russell and McFadden and was able to sign three huge contracts with Hall,Walker and Gibril Wilson, meaning they had money to do so. Plus they franchise Nnandi at huge number. The Lions will be able to have the number 1 pick and still have plenty of money left over. The team should be built through the draft, which it will assuming a competent GM and extra draft picks this year, but the teams needs talent badly. So if we want 1-2 "big name" free agents and they are actually willing to come Detroit probably for a higher price or confidence in the new GM or coach whoever that may be (ie Michael Turner situation) then we will have the money.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/salaries/2008/raiders.html
Here is SIs cap number of Jamarcus. 4.8 million in his second year, so it will be less his rookie year which is what we are talking about for the Lions.

Staubach12
11-26-2008, 03:03 PM
If I were hired as GM, here's what I'd do:

-Fire Marinelli
-Fire Jim Colletto
-Fire Joe Barry
-Fire just about everyone else

-Hire Josh McDaniels as your new HC
-Hire Raheem Morris as you new DC
-Let McDaniels have his pick for OC.

FA:
-Matt Cassell, QB

Draft:
1. Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
1. Everette Brown, DE, Florida St
2. Herman Johnson, OG, LSU
3. Darry Beckwith, ILB, LSU
3. Fili Moala, DT, USC
5. Jonathan Luigs, C, Arkansas
6. Reshard Langford, S, Vanderbilt
6. Kevin Akins, OLB, Boston College
UFA:
-Kory Sperry, TE, Colorado ST
-Darren Banks, CB, West Liberty St.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-26-2008, 04:00 PM
May. 29, 2008 - 8:36 a.m. ET

The amount of guaranteed money in Matt Ryan's contract is $27.3 million, not the originally reported $34.5 million, according to Profootballtalk.com.

The difference is a "log bonus," which refers to a player only missing out if he "falls off a log," like Kellen Winslow and his motorcycle accident. Ryan is still very likely to get the $7.45 million bonus, but it's not "guaranteed." Ryan did not receive a signing bonus. He'll instead get a $2.505 million roster bonus in 2008 on top of his $295,000 base salary. Ryan's pay increases from that total ($2.8 million) by $700,000 each year through 2013.

According profootball talk, 2.8 million also is the right number for 2008 for Matt Ryan.

Iamcanadian
11-26-2008, 06:03 PM
May. 29, 2008 - 8:36 a.m. ET

The amount of guaranteed money in Matt Ryan's contract is $27.3 million, not the originally reported $34.5 million, according to Profootballtalk.com.

The difference is a "log bonus," which refers to a player only missing out if he "falls off a log," like Kellen Winslow and his motorcycle accident. Ryan is still very likely to get the $7.45 million bonus, but it's not "guaranteed." Ryan did not receive a signing bonus. He'll instead get a $2.505 million roster bonus in 2008 on top of his $295,000 base salary. Ryan's pay increases from that total ($2.8 million) by $700,000 each year through 2013.

According profootball talk, 2.8 million also is the right number for 2008 for Matt Ryan.


Where do they come up with these figures since NFL.com cannot. What is their source???
Pat Kirwin reported that his guaranteed money equals 34.5 million and that he will make more than any rookie ever has. According to these figures, Ryan makes less than either Russell or CJ Johnson which I don't find credible at all. Even Scott places him at 6.5 million without any details of his unguaranteed money or his signing bonus.
Even if the non guaranteed money is never paid, it still has to be accounted for in your cap dollars, making that money useless for signing FA's. If Ryan has 3 or 4 million dollars in incentives each season which say only a portion may be attainable in year 3, that 3 or 4 million still counts in you cap totals for year one and year two. You are not free to use those dollars until the season ends.
I also know that Dave Carr was due a roster bonus when Houston extended him for 1 more season for a total of 8 million when his guartanteed money had evaporated and according to Kirwin, Ryan is making substantially more than previous 1st rounders so I think a lot of these figures being thrown around are way off.
Whatever is the case, we'll all get to see just how active Detroit is in the FA market and we will know by then what their cap dollars are. It doesn't appear to be findable right now so I guess we will just have to wait. It will also be interesting to know how much in cap dollars Detroit will hide as incentives in contracts so they don't have to spend their total cap dollars, a practice that is often seen used by many NFL teams. It often accounts for anywhere between 3-8 million, just another figure that needs to be looked at to determine just how many dollars Detroit actually will have to spend.

diabsoule
11-27-2008, 02:35 AM
I like the Rivera as HC hiring and think he would be sound. However, after being demoted from DC to just another coach he may have to have some time to resurect his career even though he got promoted again. When you get fired as a DC, teams usually don't rush out to sign you as a HC.
I don't see where you are getting 15.2 million from. Please explain. The 1st pick in the draft will command somewhere around a 15 million signing bonus plus salary. The 2nd 1st rounder will get around a 10 million dollar signing bonus plus salary although I'm too lazy right now to look up the exact figures. That's around 25 million dollars right there which is all the free cap space I can come close to projecting. If they draft Stafford, there is no way he is capable of starting in his 1st season since he'll be coming out as a junior and will likely ride the bench his 1st season. That means they will likely retain Culpepper which would suck up any remaining cap space so I just don't see where you are getting the cap dollars to sign anybody this coming season. Remember at this point in the season they only have Roy Williams cap dollars available and I even if Rogers comes off their books and they cut a few veterans, I only see them having peanuts in cap space and they still have to sign their draft picks???
Even if they can create more cap space by cutting a large # of previous starters and going with rookies to save money, why would you spend that cap money on high priced FA's when the team won't be competitive for another 3 years. Smart teams hide their cap money in these situations and only spend it when they know they finally have a chance to compete. Wasting it now on high priced FA's when you have no chance to compete isn't likely to be very productive.

I got the $15.2 million figure from googling how much Detroit should have in cap space next year. That figure has popped up more than once because of how many contracts they dumped this past offseason.

Iamcanadian
11-27-2008, 06:49 AM
I got the $15.2 million figure from googling how much Detroit should have in cap space next year. That figure has popped up more than once because of how many contracts they dumped this past offseason.

Thank you for the information. It seems reasonable to me.

Babylon
11-28-2008, 01:13 PM
Upon further review they're really bad. Doubt they want to sink a ton of money into a 20 year old QB so i think they trade down and go the multiple 2nd and 3rd round pick route. Load up on offense, you can cobble together a defense easier than get an offense off the ground.

bored of education
11-28-2008, 01:21 PM
Upon further review they're really bad. Doubt they want to sink a ton of money into a 20 year old QB so i think they trade down and go the multiple 2nd and 3rd round pick route. Load up on offense, you can cobble together a defense easier than get an offense off the ground.

Trading down is very difficult. Every team would trade down every pick unless they abolutely love someone. The shuold just draft an OT then a DE with their 1st round picks.

Babylon
11-28-2008, 01:29 PM
Trading down is very difficult. Every team would trade down every pick unless they abolutely love someone. The shuold just draft an OT then a DE with their 1st round picks.


It's always easier than it looks isnt it? i think someone like a Tampa Bay or a Carolina will finally decide it's a QB keeping them from getting to the top and want one of the top guys this year. I agree with Detroit needing an OT and a DE by the way.

Staubach12
11-28-2008, 01:39 PM
It's always easier than it looks isnt it? i think someone like a Tampa Bay or a Carolina will finally decide it's a QB keeping them from getting to the top and want one of the top guys this year. I agree with Detroit needing an OT and a DE by the way.

The Dolphins desperately tried to trade down last year, and no one wanted to. I highly doubt anyone will want to trade up this year either.

bored of education
11-28-2008, 01:41 PM
The fact that their are not many if any elite prospects make trading down so much more difficult to do.

diabsoule
11-28-2008, 01:44 PM
It's always easier than it looks isnt it? i think someone like a Tampa Bay or a Carolina will finally decide it's a QB keeping them from getting to the top and want one of the top guys this year. I agree with Detroit needing an OT and a DE by the way.

Where TB, Carolina, Minnesota, etc... are selecting this year it would cost them way too much to trade up to the 1st pick. Detroit's only chance of trading down would be to trade down with KC and I don't see that happening, esp. with how Tyler Thigpen is emerging.

Scotty D
11-28-2008, 01:45 PM
I want the Lions to trade down with the Dallas pick. Its much easier to trade down in the 20s. And in most drafts the players from 20-40 don't have to much of a difference in value.

PoopSandwich
11-28-2008, 01:49 PM
Draft offensive line and trade Calvin Johnson for Braylon Edwards straight up :)

Babylon
11-28-2008, 01:53 PM
Where TB, Carolina, Minnesota, etc... are selecting this year it would cost them way too much to trade up to the 1st pick. Detroit's only chance of trading down would be to trade down with KC and I don't see that happening, esp. with how Tyler Thigpen is emerging.


If Detroit wants to trade out of that top spot they can trade with anyone if they're willing to lower their demands. For the Carolinas and the Tampas of the world they have to evaluate what's available at the QB postion and act accordingly. I happen to think Stafford and Bradford are worth it but i don't know how others would view that.

diabsoule
11-28-2008, 02:01 PM
If Detroit wants to trade out of that top spot they can trade with anyone if they're willing to lower their demands. For the Carolinas and the Tampas of the world they have to evaluate what's available at the QB postion and act accordingly. I happen to think Stafford and Bradford are worth it but i don't know how others would view that.

You can lower your demands all you want but to trade into the teens from the first round pick will still cost quite a bit

Iamcanadian
11-28-2008, 10:43 PM
You can lower your demands all you want but to trade into the teens from the first round pick will still cost quite a bit

It will never happen just a pipe dream. Can you imagine if Detroit passes on Stafford or trades down a few spots and allows another team to draft Stafford, and Stafford becomes a legit franchise QB. The new GM would never be forgiven for a move like that even by all the fans clamoring for us to draft a LT. If our new GM makes a mistake in assessing Stafford, Detroit will stay a mess for another decade either way.
If Stafford isn't good enough then I expect our GM to pass on him but if he's the real deal, then our GM had better draft him. Say what you want but IMO, Parcells will never bring Miami a SB after passing on Ryan while Atlanta's chances look pretty good to me.

tjsunstein
11-29-2008, 12:34 AM
Start with putting Calvin at Quarterback.

luckyjackaubrey
11-29-2008, 07:18 AM
McDaniels as HC is not going to happen. He is the sexy pick for lots of programs based on his work in NE but he knows that the sexy wears off once you start 2-7 in year 1. He is very young and has a very good idea of who he is and what he can / can't do. I doubt he feels it is within his abilities to turn around a franchise that has done nothing since the NFL-AFL merger. Josh is going to look for a team that is less of a complete disaster to start his HC career. Teams can be turned around in a hurry these days with free agency but the lions are bad from the core, not just on the field and have been forever.

A HC's first stop is often less than ideal in terms of results. Failure is often the end result. I think Josh would fear that in taking this situation. The Lions need someone like Parcell's to come in and change the culture, the structure, the methods of scouting, spending etc with a back to basics coach that could drum the complacency out of the players.

McDaniel holds out for a different scenario. I do think he goes somewhere where the team is looking to sign Cassel as well. Some team with an established team structure. A scenario like Holmgren taking over in SF as GM next year maybe...

UK_Cheesehead
11-29-2008, 09:52 AM
McDaniel holds out for a different scenario. I do think he goes somewhere where the team is looking to sign Cassel as well. Some team with an established team structure. A scenario like Holmgren taking over in SF as GM next year maybe...

For some reason I see McDaniels and Cassel heading to Minny this off-season.

Menardo75
11-29-2008, 01:46 PM
A scenario like Holmgren taking over in SF as GM next year maybe...

He owes it to Bill Walsh. Bring us back to glory Holmgren!!!

Brothgar
11-29-2008, 02:11 PM
I put alot of thought into this and it depends a so much on Dallas for the rest of the year. Right now I see Dallas needs to win against the Giants and Eagles to make the playoffs this season AND the Skins would have to lose to one of those two. Not making the playoffs with this talent is likely unacceptable to Jones and with Garrett in the wings in Dallas this will mean the end of the Wade Phillips era in Dallas.

With this happening I see only one logical move for the Lions at the Coaching positions.

HC- Marty Schottenheimer
OC - I need to see who is available I was thinking of Brian Schottenheimer as an incentive to Marty but he is with the Jets now.
DC - Wade Phillips

I can't think of any HC who was hired as HC right after being canned and the quickest way to another HC job is being a part of the revival of the Detroit Lions.

This is a natural transition to the 3-4 D which is across the league being used by many successful teams in the league.

Free Agency

Leonard Pope TE - There is no point in picking up an old OLman or breaking the bank on anyone for the next few years but Pope is a young TE who is better than anyone we have.

Bryant McFadden - We have a #1 CB we need a #2 - 6

Fill roster spots.


The Draft
1 1. Matt Stafford QB - After watching the Lions have 5 different QBs playing for them this season I am going to have to buckle and draft a top QB highest success rate for QBs comes from QBs drafted in the first round.

1 19. Duke Robinson OG - Kevin Smith is a gifted RB who I see good things from him but he needs a guy to open up the hole for him Duke is the Mammoth to do it.

2 1. BJ Raji NT - To move to the 3-4 we are going to need a NT Raji is the best one to come out for a long time.

3 1. Phil Loadholt or Jamon Meredith OT - It is very possible to get a good OT in the 3rd round specially in this OT heavy draft and the vast number of OTs that went in last years draft. One good one is bound to fall. We may have to trade up (Ideally this year and next years 3rd round pick should do it)

3 19. Scott McKillop ILB - This is a kid I really like he can get the solo tackle ILBs drop always just fall off the map for some unknown reason so I like him here.

4 1. Domonique Johnson CB


Final Starters

RB Smith/Johnson
FB Felton
QB Stafford
WR Johnson WR2 McDonald
OL - Loadholt, Robinson, Raiola, Backus, Cherilus
TE - Leonard Pope
DL - Redding, Raji, TBD (IAF)
LB - Avril, McKillop, Sims, White?
CB - Bodden, McFadden, Keith Smith, Travis Fisher
S - Smith, Bullocks, Alexander

Boston
11-29-2008, 03:18 PM
Draft d-line and o-line. Until you have that, you're not going anywhere.

Babylon
11-29-2008, 03:23 PM
I put alot of thought into this and it depends a so much on Dallas for the rest of the year. Right now I see Dallas needs to win against the Giants and Eagles to make the playoffs this season AND the Skins would have to lose to one of those two. Not making the playoffs with this talent is likely unacceptable to Jones and with Garrett in the wings in Dallas this will mean the end of the Wade Phillips era in Dallas.

With this happening I see only one logical move for the Lions at the Coaching positions.

HC- Marty Schottenheimer
OC - I need to see who is available I was thinking of Brian Schottenheimer as an incentive to Marty but he is with the Jets now.
DC - Wade Phillips

I can't think of any HC who was hired as HC right after being canned and the quickest way to another HC job is being a part of the revival of the Detroit Lions.

This is a natural transition to the 3-4 D which is across the league being used by many successful teams in the league.

Free Agency

Leonard Pope TE - There is no point in picking up an old OLman or breaking the bank on anyone for the next few years but Pope is a young TE who is better than anyone we have.

Bryant McFadden - We have a #1 CB we need a #2 - 6

Fill roster spots.


The Draft
1 1. Matt Stafford QB - After watching the Lions have 5 different QBs playing for them this season I am going to have to buckle and draft a top QB highest success rate for QBs comes from QBs drafted in the first round.

1 19. Duke Robinson OG - Kevin Smith is a gifted RB who I see good things from him but he needs a guy to open up the hole for him Duke is the Mammoth to do it.

2 1. BJ Raji NT - To move to the 3-4 we are going to need a NT Raji is the best one to come out for a long time.

3 1. Phil Loadholt or Jamon Meredith OT - It is very possible to get a good OT in the 3rd round specially in this OT heavy draft and the vast number of OTs that went in last years draft. One good one is bound to fall. We may have to trade up (Ideally this year and next years 3rd round pick should do it)

3 19. Scott McKillop ILB - This is a kid I really like he can get the solo tackle ILBs drop always just fall off the map for some unknown reason so I like him here.

4 1. Domonique Johnson CB


Final Starters

RB Smith/Johnson
FB Felton
QB Stafford
WR Johnson WR2 McDonald
OL - Loadholt, Robinson, Raiola, Backus, Cherilus
TE - Leonard Pope
DL - Redding, Raji, TBD (IAF)
LB - Avril, McKillop, Sims, White?
CB - Bodden, McFadden, Keith Smith, Travis Fisher
S - Smith, Bullocks, Alexander

Not the biggest Leonard Pope fan but i really like your strategy for the Lions, send them a bill.

Notredameleo
11-29-2008, 05:09 PM
you cant!!!

LonghornsLegend
11-29-2008, 07:41 PM
I like the idea of McDaniels and Cassell as a start, and a 1st rd of Andre Smith and Duke Robinson...If Suggs is available you HAVE to make a push to get him and secure that pass rusher.


I'd draft a complimentary back to Kevin Smith in the 4th or 5th round to work on that ground game...I know the defense is terrible but you can't fix everything in one off-season, and they have alot of holes...Either way I wouldn't touch a QB unless they planned on getting an elite LT and a Guard early.

BlindSite
11-29-2008, 08:38 PM
I wouldn't put a rookie QB behind any line Detroit could piece together unless they bring in a LT and draft two brilliant guards.

Staubach12
11-30-2008, 12:18 PM
I wouldn't put a rookie QB behind any line Detroit could piece together unless they bring in a LT and draft two brilliant guards.

I agree. If you throw a rookie behind that line as it is now, you're going to get the David Carr effect.