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View Full Version : Antwan Randle El Vs Pat White


kwilk103
11-24-2008, 08:47 PM
ok, pat will be drafted as a wr

how does he compare to randle el as a prospect?

randle el is 5'10 190 lbs
white is 6'1 192 lbs

white runs a 4.44 according to our media guide; i cant remember him getting caught from behind; even is he runs a slow 40, he has "game speed"

i could see white being a slot wr/kr/pr like randle el

he has been injury prone, but thats mainly from running so much (131, 165, 197, 144 for a total of 637)

sprained ankle, concussion from knee to head, dislocated thumb

thoughts?

Ozzy
11-24-2008, 08:51 PM
White is not even close to Randle El in terms of quickness, not even close. White should be a dang good receiver though in the NFL, long strider, makes good cuts and has decent size. Randle El, no, not even close and just does not have that kind of change of direction ability in my opinion.

SeanTaylorRIP
11-24-2008, 08:52 PM
Lets see Randle El is quick as hell and has a solid build. Pat White is a glider who is not above average at changing directions and is so skinny he'd make some models jealous. Oh and we don't even know if he can catch. I think Brad Smith would be a better comparison as they are closer to build and athleticism but I don't think White will be even as good as Smith to be quite honest.

Shane P. Hallam
11-24-2008, 08:53 PM
Yeah, Randle El has more of those natural skills, but White has as much upside and should be a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

draftnut1988
11-24-2008, 09:09 PM
In my opinion, on paper they seem similar, but I just think Pat White is a better runner.

STARHEATHER
11-24-2008, 09:12 PM
if he can play wr and return punts. i havent seen it yet though. steve slaton ran about 4.45 area. i dont know is white that fast

Sniper
11-24-2008, 09:13 PM
Yeah, Randle El has more of those natural skills, but White has as much upside and should be a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Seriously????

illmatic74
11-24-2008, 09:14 PM
if he can play wr and return punts. i havent seen it yet though. steve slaton ran about 4.45 area. i dont know is white that fastI heard like last year that White is faster.

kwilk103
11-24-2008, 09:24 PM
slaton beat white by a step when they raced

both play faster than they time

completely forget about smith though (even though he broke his record, i forgot), but that would be a better comparison

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 09:26 AM
I think it's going to come down to the Senior bowl or bowl invites/personal workouts.


Does he look comfortable playing WR? Is he smooth in and out of his breaks? Does he show potential to play WR? Can he return Kicks? Can he effectively catch the ball in traffic?

No one will argue that he's not a great player with the ball in his hands, or that he's slow.

He just has to answer every question that Most WR's spend their entire career proving. Only issue is, he has to do it in 4 months or so time.

If he looks natural with upside... I'm saying rounds 2-3. If he looks like he has potential but rough around the edges 4-6.

santeria531
11-25-2008, 09:43 AM
Pat White has nice size for WR & has long strides that make him look like he isn't going fast, when in reality he is flying. White is a superb athlete, so there is no doubt in my mind that he will be able to make the transition to WR. His hands are suspect due to playing QB, but route running can be taught. I don't like the Randle El comparison b/c I don't see any teams using Pat White as a slot receiver in the NFL.

SeanTaylorRIP
11-25-2008, 09:50 AM
Pat White is more in the Brad Smith mold. Long lean guys who won't be great slot guys because they lack the quickness and toughness. Rasheed Marshall and Marques Hagans were more along the lines of ARE as prospects. Isaiah Stanback is more in the mold of Matt Jones. Guys who actually fit the WR bill physically.

BBIB
11-25-2008, 11:11 AM
Pat White is a more unique athlete than both.

Pat White not only is the all-time leading rusher among quarterbacks in NCAA history but he has by far a better YPC than any of the other QBs on the list and he's by far a better passer in college than any of the other guys.

Pat White should go to a team that is creative enough to use him in the Wildcat and spread option sets.

His versatility is much greater than those other guys.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 11:16 AM
Pat White is a more unique athlete than both.

Pat White not only is the all-time leading rusher among quarterbacks in NCAA history but he has by far a better YPC than any of the other QBs on the list and he's by far a better passer in college than any of the other guys.

Pat White should go to a team that is creative enough to use him in the Wildcat and spread option sets.

His versatility is much greater than those other guys.

I don't know, it'd be debateable who had the better arm between El and White.

I think White can certainly do it and would be a great #2 WR. My point is, at this point in time we really have no idea how good he'll be, as he hasn't played WR. If I'm him. I start running routes so when the all-star games come, I'm already familiar on the little things of route running.

His hands are something I'm also curious about. Don't have to have great ability to catch as a QB.

Ozzy
11-25-2008, 11:22 AM
Pat White is a more unique athlete than both.

Pat White not only is the all-time leading rusher among quarterbacks in NCAA history but he has by far a better YPC than any of the other QBs on the list and he's by far a better passer in college than any of the other guys.

Pat White should go to a team that is creative enough to use him in the Wildcat and spread option sets.

His versatility is much greater than those other guys.
Oh come on, Antwan Randle El was one of the most explosive playmakers in college football history. He was a freaking return man as their starting quarterback. Even more impressive, he did it at Indiana, on a very weak football team without much talent.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/2000/11/18/001229886.jpg


I agree though White is very special and his big play ability running the football is flat outstanding. No quarterback really has been like that before, he can break it down field on any play. I doubt he plays QB in the NFL though, he could be a great receiver I think, could potentially be far better than Brad Smith, Ronald Curry or Matt Jones. White and Randle El are two totally different runners though in my opinion.

BBIB
11-25-2008, 11:23 AM
I don't know, it'd be debateable who had the better arm between El and White.

I think White can certainly do it and would be a great #2 WR. My point is, at this point in time we really have no idea how good he'll be, as he hasn't played WR. If I'm him. I start running routes so when the all-star games come, I'm already familiar on the little things of route running.

His hands are something I'm also curious about. Don't have to have great ability to catch as a QB.

Lol there is no debate. Sorry.

Randle El in his BEST year had 9 passing TDs and 5 INTs. Oh and let's not forget the whopping 51% completion percentage.

Same story with Joshua Cribbs who actually had a terrible 49% completion percentage.

Brad Smith was a better passer than those guys but even he only had 4 more TDs than INTs in his last year in school. None of these guys came close to being as respectable a passer that Pat White has become over his last two years at WVU. Pat White has even learned to go through his progressions this year.

Now Pat White is not a top QB prospect overall, but he is leaps and bounds a better passer than guys like Cribbs, Stanback, Smith, Randle El, etc. It's not even close.

I just hope he's given the opportunity to show this in a Wildcat/Spread offense where he could be ridiculously dangerous.

awfullyquiet
11-25-2008, 11:35 AM
]
I just hope he's given the opportunity to show this in a Wildcat/Spread offense where he could be ridiculously dangerous.

are people actually saying the wildcat/spread is going to be viable for another year?

jesus.

BBIB
11-25-2008, 11:43 AM
are people actually saying the wildcat/spread is going to be viable for another year?

jesus.

I don't see why not. Especially with a unique athlete like Pat White. I know that's terrible news for the ultra conservatives who don't like change.

Turtlepower
11-25-2008, 11:44 AM
I don't see why not. Especially with a unique athlete like Pat White. I know that's terrible news for the ultra conservatives who don't like change.

Good defenses don't suck against gimmicky offenses. The Cardinals tried running the Wildcat once on Sunday against the Giants and got their ass handed to them.

Mr. Stiller
11-25-2008, 11:49 AM
Lol there is no debate. Sorry.

Randle El in his BEST year had 9 passing TDs and 5 INTs. Oh and let's not forget the whopping 51% completion percentage.

Same story with Joshua Cribbs who actually had a terrible 49% completion percentage.

Brad Smith was a better passer than those guys but even he only had 4 more TDs than INTs in his last year in school. None of these guys came close to being as respectable a passer that Pat White has become over his last two years at WVU. Pat White has even learned to go through his progressions this year.

Now Pat White is not a top QB prospect overall, but he is leaps and bounds a better passer than guys like Cribbs, Stanback, Smith, Randle El, etc. It's not even close.

I just hope he's given the opportunity to show this in a Wildcat/Spread offense where he could be ridiculously dangerous.

So what you're saying is that because White Threw more he has a better Arm?

I'd disagree. I think White is the better QB and the better Passer. Randel El has a Stronger arm. It's not that big of a deal.

That said, his accomplishments as a QB don't prove anything as a WR. Randel El was also an accomplished return man already which is why he went so high.

Brent
11-25-2008, 11:54 AM
Rasheed Marshall redux.

BBIB
11-25-2008, 01:21 PM
Good defenses don't suck against gimmicky offenses. The Cardinals tried running the Wildcat once on Sunday against the Giants and got their ass handed to them.

The Wildcat formation is not a gimmick. You can't run a gimmick play half a dozen times or more a game.

Try running a WR reverse play that many times and see how successful you are. The Dolphins average like 6-7 yards a play with the Wildcat. That's a pretty darn good average. Better than a run play.

And just because the Cardinals failed it means it doesn't work?

A)You have to have the personnel to succeed

B)Something getting stopped or contained does not mean it is flawed


Look at traditional offenses

Look at teams with terrible cast in traditional offenses and see how much they stink.

Look at teams with high powered traditional offenses. Look at Sundays when those teams struggle.


Who did the Cardinals run the Wildcat formation with, Tim Hightower? That's hardly the Wildcat at it's best in terms of talent/execution

kwilk103
11-25-2008, 01:24 PM
Rasheed Marshall redux.

white>>>>>>>>marshall

BBIB
11-25-2008, 01:27 PM
So what you're saying is that because White Threw more he has a better Arm?

I'd disagree. I think White is the better QB and the better Passer. Randel El has a Stronger arm. It's not that big of a deal.

That said, his accomplishments as a QB don't prove anything as a WR. Randel El was also an accomplished return man already which is why he went so high.

Pat White didn't just throw the ball more he was more accurate and a better decision maker when he did.

True throwing the football has nothing to do with playing WR, but it could again play a major factor in the Wildcat offense. He could actually be competent enough to mix it up with hitches, quick screen, slants, posts, and corner routes when the defense is so focused about containing the run out of the formation.

Menardo75
11-25-2008, 04:14 PM
If he is coached up properly he will be a very dangerous slot and return man in the pros.

Zyro_1014
11-25-2008, 04:17 PM
If he is coached up properly he will be a very dangerous slot and return man in the pros.

WILDCAT! i think White will be used in alot of different ways in the NFL.

I think the Randle El will be a better WR because it just seems like he started learning the position very quickly and idk if White will be able too. Just kind of a question mark

Menardo75
11-25-2008, 04:19 PM
WILDCAT! i think White will be used in alot of different ways in the NFL.

I think the Randle El will be a better WR because it just seems like he started learning the position very quickly and idk if White will be able too. Just kind of a question mark

The senior bowl will show a lot.

kwilk103
11-25-2008, 05:23 PM
forgot to add

he will be coached by our wr coach lonnie galloway of app st; who coached dexter jackson; i think hes a good young wr coach, dont know much else about him

and he has played some wr for us when we put brown in at qb (before brown got injured; also has played some in practice

BBIB
12-06-2008, 07:23 PM
Pat White is a special football player

I really think he is perfect for the Wildcat

niel89
12-06-2008, 10:04 PM
i dont think that the wildcat with be something that lasts that long. even if he is perfect for the wildcat, a team wont keep him on a team just for that role. if he cant be an decent wr he wont be on a team. i think he is an interesting player but i dont really seem him as a success

Mr. Stiller
12-07-2008, 02:36 AM
double post.

Mr. Stiller
12-07-2008, 02:43 AM
Lol there is no debate. Sorry.

Randle El in his BEST year had 9 passing TDs and 5 INTs. Oh and let's not forget the whopping 51% completion percentage.

Same story with Joshua Cribbs who actually had a terrible 49% completion percentage.

Brad Smith was a better passer than those guys but even he only had 4 more TDs than INTs in his last year in school. None of these guys came close to being as respectable a passer that Pat White has become over his last two years at WVU. Pat White has even learned to go through his progressions this year.

Now Pat White is not a top QB prospect overall, but he is leaps and bounds a better passer than guys like Cribbs, Stanback, Smith, Randle El, etc. It's not even close.

I just hope he's given the opportunity to show this in a Wildcat/Spread offense where he could be ridiculously dangerous.

Talent level of team vs. conference?

White played in the big East with a loaded team.. His defense was extremely underrated.

Was there anyone even in the NFL other than El from that Indiana team?

Not only that, but You're saying he's a better passer?

White: 648 Rushes, 4385 Yards, 47 TDS....467/728 64%, 5576 yards, 52 TDS
El: 3895 Rushing Yards, 7469 Passing Yards, 92 TD's combined.

Why aren't they comparible again?

And add the fact that... WVU got to beat up on a weak big east for the last 4 years (And is just the last year and a half coming on with Rutgers).

And El had to face the likes of Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska, etc.



Randle El was a quarterback at Indiana University, where he was considered one of the premier offensive threats in the Big Ten Conference and received some consideration for the Heisman Trophy (coming in sixth in Heisman voting) during his senior season. Randle El was the first player in Division I history to pass for 40 career touchdowns and score 40 career rushing touchdowns. He was the Big Ten Player of the Year in 2001, and was named the first-team All-American quarterback by the Football Writers Association of America. He finished his college career as the fifth on the all-time NCAA total yardage list, and became the first player in college football history to record 2,500 total yards for four consecutive years. Randle El finished his career with 7,469 passing yards, 3,895 rushing yards, and 92 touchdowns running and passing.

While attending Indiana University, Randle El also played varsity basketball under Bob Knight. A standout defender, he joined the 1998-99 IU basketball team following the football season. Randle El also played varsity baseball during the 2000 season for Indiana.


(I'm looking at the drafts..)

98: G & T in round 7, neither did anything.
2002: Randel El


Pat White?

2006: Dee McCann 6th round
2008: Steve Slaton, Owen Schmitt, Ryan Mundy...

Future: Noel Devine, Greg Isdaner, Quinton Andrews, Selvish Capers, Mortty Ivy, Ellis Lankster, Ryan Stanchek, Wes Lyons


Basically my point was, El played against much better competition, with a much lesser team, actually was a well established return man, and showed at the Senior bowl IIRC the ability to be a solid WR.

Granted White has the height and Stride advantage. He also seems to be.. not soft because he's not afraid to take a hit, but frail(?). I've seen him sit out quite a few drives because he was hit. He needs to get to about 200-205lbs or fill out that frame quite considerably.


Pat White didn't just throw the ball more he was more accurate and a better decision maker when he did.

True throwing the football has nothing to do with playing WR, but it could again play a major factor in the Wildcat offense. He could actually be competent enough to mix it up with hitches, quick screen, slants, posts, and corner routes when the defense is so focused about containing the run out of the formation.


Again, Pat White played weaker opponents, and in rarely did he have to pass maybe more than 20 times a game.

There's games where White threw under 5 passes and went 100%. I'd say it's more the system than the QB.

kwilk103
12-07-2008, 11:31 AM
[QUOTE=Mr. Stiller;1355016]

And El had to face the likes of Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska, etc.






(I'm looking at the drafts..)

98: G & T in round 7, neither did anything.
2002: Randel El


Pat White?

2006: Dee McCann 6th round
2008: Steve Slaton, Owen Schmitt, Ryan Mundy...

Future: Noel Devine, Greg Isdaner, Quinton Andrews, Selvish Capers, Mortty Ivy, Ellis Lankster, Ryan Stanchek, Wes Lyons

[QUOTE]

mcann i out of football
isdaner and capers arent very good
lankster and stanchek are 50/50 at getting drafted; lankster will need a good senior bowl
lyons is 6'8 but is also injured and very lazy

not exactly a lot of talent

Paranoidmoonduck
12-07-2008, 11:54 AM
I think we may be jumping to the conclusion that White will be a wide receiver. He's gotten better at throwing the ball this year and I still hear that scouts are going to give him a serious look under center.

Remember, with the wildcat formation, White could function as a backup quarterback and a nice outside running threat who could make a lot of things happen in that formation.

kwilk103
12-07-2008, 01:59 PM
I think we may be jumping to the conclusion that White will be a wide receiver. He's gotten better at throwing the ball this year and I still hear that scouts are going to give him a serious look under center.

Remember, with the wildcat formation, White could function as a backup quarterback and a nice outside running threat who could make a lot of things happen in that formation.

hes really only been taught to play qb this year

that throw on the td last night was very nice

doesnt help that is best wr is a 5'9 converted rb who drops like every other pass

BBIB
12-07-2008, 02:33 PM
Talent level of team vs. conference?

White played in the big East with a loaded team.. His defense was extremely underrated.

Was there anyone even in the NFL other than El from that Indiana team?

Not only that, but You're saying he's a better passer?

White: 648 Rushes, 4385 Yards, 47 TDS....467/728 64%, 5576 yards, 52 TDS
El: 3895 Rushing Yards, 7469 Passing Yards, 92 TD's combined.

Why aren't they comparible again?

And add the fact that... WVU got to beat up on a weak big east for the last 4 years (And is just the last year and a half coming on with Rutgers).

And El had to face the likes of Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska, etc.






(I'm looking at the drafts..)

98: G & T in round 7, neither did anything.
2002: Randel El


Pat White?

2006: Dee McCann 6th round
2008: Steve Slaton, Owen Schmitt, Ryan Mundy...

Future: Noel Devine, Greg Isdaner, Quinton Andrews, Selvish Capers, Mortty Ivy, Ellis Lankster, Ryan Stanchek, Wes Lyons


Basically my point was, El played against much better competition, with a much lesser team, actually was a well established return man, and showed at the Senior bowl IIRC the ability to be a solid WR.

Granted White has the height and Stride advantage. He also seems to be.. not soft because he's not afraid to take a hit, but frail(?). I've seen him sit out quite a few drives because he was hit. He needs to get to about 200-205lbs or fill out that frame quite considerably.





Again, Pat White played weaker opponents, and in rarely did he have to pass maybe more than 20 times a game.

There's games where White threw under 5 passes and went 100%. I'd say it's more the system than the QB.


The same BIg Ten known for slow defenses that struggle vs scrambling QBs? And even if Pat White had as few pass attempts as you say, then what does that say about a guy like Randle El who still had much less TDs and worse TD/INT ratio.

Pat White not only is the all-time leading rusher but again he has by far a better YPC than all the other guys. He's a flat out dangerous runner in the open field.

The level of competition argument is laughable. Ask 2005 UGA or Oklahoma last year how much White is a product of weak competition.

TitanHope
12-07-2008, 04:09 PM
Perhaps Seneca Wallace could be a comparison, should White be kept at QB. Maybe even Slash.

App. State QB Armanti Edwards intrigues me. I think he could be a Josh Cribbs type player in the NFL.

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 04:12 PM
some of us are assuming that the wildcat has staying power.

i wouldn't.

TheGM
12-08-2008, 02:11 PM
I think his body and athleticism translate well. I would love to see hiim in Sean Payton's offense down in New Oreleans.

isongd
12-08-2008, 07:12 PM
Isnt there still the chance that he plays baseball instead of football or is that all gone?

isongd
12-08-2008, 07:14 PM
I know the reds drafted him this year

giantsfan
12-08-2008, 10:17 PM
The Wildcat formation is not a gimmick. You can't run a gimmick play half a dozen times or more a game.

Try running a WR reverse play that many times and see how successful you are. The Dolphins average like 6-7 yards a play with the Wildcat. That's a pretty darn good average. Better than a run play.

And just because the Cardinals failed it means it doesn't work?

A)You have to have the personnel to succeed

B)Something getting stopped or contained does not mean it is flawed


Look at traditional offenses

Look at teams with terrible cast in traditional offenses and see how much they stink.

Look at teams with high powered traditional offenses. Look at Sundays when those teams struggle.


Who did the Cardinals run the Wildcat formation with, Tim Hightower? That's hardly the Wildcat at it's best in terms of talent/execution

The wildcat is largely predicated on forcing a defender to play conservatively and maintain his contain assignment and being able to do so, if a team rely's heavily on this opposing coaches will emphasize to their players that when the opposing team is in the wildcat it is vital above all else to maintain the contain assignments on the edge. In season you don't can't really focus on prep'ing your guys for a rare formation as much that involves a much more reserved way to handle it.

just to answer your question the Cards ran it with Boldin since he was a college QB and is such a physical runner with the ball in his hands.

kwilk103
12-08-2008, 10:25 PM
Isnt there still the chance that he plays baseball instead of football or is that all gone?

gone

he was drafted coming out of hs in the 4th round by the angels; he had a 2nd round grade from one scouting report i read (consenus was 2nd-3rd round), but went in the 4th due to his commitment to wvu; was a centerfielder; he turned down their offer that was in the six figures (most say it was around 400k, with a high of 750k; hes said it was six figures but wouldnt say how much)

was again drafted by the angels after his rsoph year, in i believe the 12th round, and again by the reds in the 49th round last year; they actually went and worked him out last year