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BuckDawg23
11-25-2008, 10:13 AM
What's the deal with Taylor Mays? Obviously he's a physical freak he has ideal measurements for the position but Ive heard people call him overrated and underrated and overrated again, my question is, is he really a game changing safety and worthy of a top 10-15 pick this year? I read once on here a USC fan say that Mays does exactly what they ask him to do at USC, not sure what that is but that's why he doesnt always jump out at you, he's doing exactly what the coaches ask of him.

Sniper
11-25-2008, 10:18 AM
What's the deal with Taylor Mays? Obviously he's a physical freak he has ideal measurements for the position but Ive heard people call him overrated and underrated and overrated again, my question is, is he really a game changing safety and worthy of a top 10-15 pick this year? I read once on here a USC fan say that Mays does exactly what they ask him to do at USC, not sure what that is but that's why he doesnt always jump out at you, he's doing exactly what the coaches ask of him.

There are around five threads already for Taylor Mays, but whatever.

He's the man. He plays deep cover 1 safety for USC because his range is absurd and it allows Kevin Ellison to play closer to the LOS. In a scheme like Philadelphia's where he could be deployed everywhere, he'd be a beast.

draftnut1988
11-25-2008, 10:39 AM
Did anyone hear know he was Jewish? Like... He was legit Bar Mitzvahed...


As a fellow Jew... That's tight!

Babylon
11-25-2008, 11:06 AM
What's the deal with Taylor Mays? Obviously he's a physical freak he has ideal measurements for the position but Ive heard people call him overrated and underrated and overrated again, my question is, is he really a game changing safety and worthy of a top 10-15 pick this year? I read once on here a USC fan say that Mays does exactly what they ask him to do at USC, not sure what that is but that's why he doesnt always jump out at you, he's doing exactly what the coaches ask of him.

I actually think his play has improved in the latter part of this season, he's getting in on more plays and making an impact on the defense. Personally i think he's a little too cut physically and might want to see him trim down a bit but he's legit. I also would add that he will be the type that should benefit from a combine or personal workouts.

Menardo75
11-25-2008, 04:12 PM
If he is not a stud in the pros he has no one to blame but himself, lets put it that way.

Brent
11-25-2008, 04:27 PM
I like Ellison more than Mays.

Babylon
11-25-2008, 04:44 PM
I like Ellison more than Mays.

This is the draft forum not the college forum.

djp
11-25-2008, 05:02 PM
He is definitely a scheme player. He won't fit in certain defenses, that's for sure.

Love his frame and aggressiveness.

CC.SD
11-25-2008, 06:29 PM
He is like a young god still learning to control his power.

In terms of my team (bolts) I can't advocate anything but a trench player on either side, or Rey, but if I were to make an exception it would be for Taylor.

Just stick him deep and let Cro and Jammer play straight up man. Playing constant zone with crap safeties like Hart and Weddle is a big reason the Chargers are #32 in pass defense.

D-Unit
11-25-2008, 06:41 PM
He's the type of player that fans from other teams will love to hate, but the fans from the team he's on, will love him endlessly.

critesy
11-25-2008, 08:23 PM
kind of like the laron of college ?

ElectricEye
11-25-2008, 09:22 PM
His range is completely absurd, as noted by Sniper. He's going to be really, really good in coverage in the pro's. His ball skills aren't the greatest in the world, but he's not going to get beat deep by many guys even in the NFL. His ability to force turnovers, often times to big deal with safeties, will probably improve when he's on responsible for half the field. He's a really pure FS prospect and should have some versatility beyond that because of his freakish athleticism. He hits really hard and isn't half bad in run support when he wraps up as well, so the future is bright for him.

Bills2083
11-25-2008, 09:28 PM
How do you guys think he'll do in a cover-2 defense?

STARHEATHER
11-25-2008, 09:44 PM
soft. no ball skills. doesnt hit. misses tackles. just not around the ball as much as youd like fro a top s. physically he has the tools. i ust see him coming up on the run try to tackle ap. i dont think hes going to be sucesful. he is the only usc guy who is a true athletic freak though. i dont like soft players though. im going to say hes a myth. you just dont hear his name enough and ive seen him try to tackle backs and he doesnt win too many of those battles. cant stop the run says soft. minimal picks say below average ball skills. its ust not a good combo for an nfl safety

katnip
11-25-2008, 09:46 PM
soft. no ball skills. doesnt hit. misses tackles. just not around the ball as much as youd like fro a top s. physically he has the tools. i ust see him coming up on the run try to tackle ap. i dont think hes going to be sucesful. he is the only usc guy who is a true athletic freak though. i dont like soft players though. im going to say hes a myth. you just dont hear his name enough and ive seen him try to tackle backs and he doesnt win too many of those battles. cant stop the run says soft. minimal picks say below average ball skills. its ust not a good combo for an nfl safety

Thanks. That answered a lot. I thought this freakish athlete was like Sean Taylor RIP. Guess I was wrong

ElectricEye
11-25-2008, 09:48 PM
Thanks. That answered a lot. I thought this freakish athlete was like Sean Taylor RIP. Guess I was wrong

PROTIP; Don't listen to a word Starheather says. He'll say exactly what will seem to most edgy.

STARHEATHER
11-25-2008, 09:54 PM
watch the tape. soft. not around the ball. no picks. it ust doesnt make sense hes such freak he should be doing way more. they have a saying for guys like mays. looks like tarzan, plays like jane.

illmatic74
11-25-2008, 09:56 PM
watch the tape. soft. not around the ball. no picks. it ust doesnt make sense hes such freak he should be doing way more. they have a saying for guys like mays. looks like tarzan, plays like jane.He is the best Safety in coverage in this Draft.

ElectricEye
11-25-2008, 09:59 PM
watch the tape. soft. not around the ball. no picks. it ust doesnt make sense hes such freak he should be doing way more. they have a saying for guys like mays. looks like tarzan, plays like jane.

Looks like Tarzan, covers the entire field.

619
11-25-2008, 10:03 PM
I think he's one of those guys whose game adapts better to the pros than the college game necessarily.

STARHEATHER
11-25-2008, 10:05 PM
he doesnt get to any balls.so these statements he covers everyone i dont get. ive seen him burned plenty of time. at least we agree the guy is a substandard cowering ankle diver as a tackler. at least we agree hes "soft"

illmatic74
11-25-2008, 10:08 PM
he doesnt get to any balls.so these statements he covers everyone i dont get. ive seen him burned plenty of time. at least we agree the guy is a substandard cowering ankle diver as a tackler. at least we agree hes "soft"When have you seen him beaten deep.

illmatic74
11-25-2008, 10:09 PM
Oh yeah he is not soft he just has bad technique tackling at times fixable.

ElectricEye
11-25-2008, 10:09 PM
he doesnt get to any balls.so these statements he covers everyone i dont get. ive seen him burned plenty of time. at least we agree the guy is a substandard cowering ankle diver as a tackler. at least we agree hes "soft"

I actually don't agree to any of that actually. He doesn't wrap up correctly, but he can really hit.

I really don't know what you're talking about with the poor coverage skills. USC has allowed three passing touchdowns all year and they're YPA against is a whole yard and a half better than the next closest team. That has a whole hell of a lot to do with Mays.

Babylon
11-25-2008, 10:11 PM
he doesnt get to any balls.so these statements he covers everyone i dont get. ive seen him burned plenty of time. at least we agree the guy is a substandard cowering ankle diver as a tackler. at least we agree hes "soft"

I definitely don't think he's soft. If anything he needs to be more of a form tackler. A lot of guys on that defense try to knock every ballcarrier out and sometimes it gets them in trouble.

I agree with 619 that he'll be better in the pros.

STARHEATHER
11-25-2008, 10:13 PM
soft. missing tackles at the college level is a sign of soft for an athlete of his caliber. he looks liek a good bengals pick. add another softy.i dont like softys. vs oregon last yr he got run over several times and burned for a td. and he must not have good ball skills because he doesnt make picks. its just not that good on the field.

ElectricEye
11-25-2008, 10:17 PM
soft. missing tackles at the college level is a sign of soft for an athlete of his caliber. he looks liek a good bengals pick. add another softy.i dont like softys. vs oregon last yr he got run over several times and burned for a td. and he must not have good ball skills because he doesnt make picks. its just not that good on the field.

Missing tackles doesn't make him soft. It shows that he's out in open space playing deep way to much.

Ball skills are overrated anyway. Give me a guy who shuts down the deep ball over a guy who picks off three more passes a year every time.

Oh, and nice job picking out USC's worst defensive performance on ESPN and pinning it on Mays. Totally not transparent at all.

STARHEATHER
11-25-2008, 10:24 PM
it did happen. i mean you cant just take the good. you have to take the bad as well. and that one was particularly awful.

illmatic74
11-25-2008, 10:26 PM
it did happen. i mean you cant just take the good. you have to take the bad as well. and that one was particularly awful.Like Terrence Cody getting dominated v.s Ole Miss?

Malaka
11-26-2008, 08:21 AM
I love Taylor Mays as a prospect, his ball skills, while not excellent are good, and will probably improve when he is not responsible for the whole field, but that is what I love about him, kind of what Laron Landry is doing with the Skins now, Mays can be everywhere in coverage, and can lock up the whole field when he drops back. I really hope some idiot GMs believe that he is soft, has no ball skills, and is a crappy tackler, so he falls to the Giants. Pair Taylor Mays at FS, with Kenny Phillips at SS, we would possibly have the best young safety tandem in the NFL, now if Corey Webster comes back and Ross continues to improve the secondary might be one of the best in the league, especially with our pass-rush.

On a side note, has anyone ever been to Footballsfuture? If you have you probably know who Bannanasrusc is, Heather is like the anti-Bannanas, we should put them in a room together and talk football... that would be entertainment right there... lol

jj45
11-26-2008, 08:46 AM
I think he will do great on the bears plus we have a lot of money invested in our ends and with this being the last year of the cba agreement ends make more then safeties. Plus I think with brown being the type of player he is he can stay healthy ( he is great but just like bob sanders can't stay on the field small safeties who have too much weight on them to make up for the lack of height break down alot) I think he can pair up with brown for a year then it can mays and stelz in our backfield we need a go who can come in on 3rd down and rush the passer not an everydown end we have those. So have to be going either mays , duke, or I want to say curry or cushing but too many backer already. The point is I think mays is first round pick I think will be a dominant like sean taylor r.I.p but if he is anywhere close I that's what the bears need

kaisertown
11-26-2008, 03:56 PM
just not around the ball as much as youd like fro a top s

you just dont hear his name enough

A lot of that is because of Mays' responsibilities in coverage. Since he is the last line of defense in USC's cover 1 defense, he lines up pretty far off the line of scrimmage. And since USC tends to shut down the run pretty close to the line, he doesn't end up around the ball all that often. You really have to understand what USC asks Mays to do.

not around the ball. no picks.

The ground he is obligated to cover in that scheme is huge, but he covers it so well that teams simply aren't even willing to try deep passes. USC has only given up one pass over 30 yards all season. Mays is the best cover safety in college football (Rashad Johnson might be right with him).

I certainly wouldn't call him soft and he does absolutely lay somebody out every once and awhile. When I think of a soft safety, I imagine someone who hesitates before he tackles and shys away from contact. Mays isn't that type of player, he is plenty aggressive and physical. Due to the way Mays is used in coverage, he has to make all of his tackles in the open field and that is a tough thing for even the most talented players to do. He does miss guys a little too often and I have seen him take bad angles when coming forward which leads to the diving at people's ankles you referenced. tackling has become a lost art form and he does try and tackle with just his shoulder too often as well. He isn't a perfect player and I don't think he compares all that well to Polomalu when he came out of USC, but let's not understate how good of a talent he is and how well he has been in deep coverage his entire career at USC.

Zyro_1014
11-26-2008, 04:17 PM
some people have mentioned it already, but i really think his coverage skills are going to be quite scary when he plays in a cover 2 or something of that sort where he doesnt have to cover as much ground.

He hits when he gets the chance, but most of the time he doesnt get to the ball in time because of where he plays, ive seen him a couple times in person this year and he makes alot more plays than people give him credit for.

Babylon
11-26-2008, 04:51 PM
some people have mentioned it already, but i really think his coverage skills are going to be quite scary when he plays in a cover 2 or something of that sort where he doesnt have to cover as much ground.

He hits when he gets the chance, but most of the time he doesnt get to the ball in time because of where he plays, ive seen him a couple times in person this year and he makes alot more plays than people give him credit for.


I think he's making more plays lately, one of their recent games he and Cushing sent some poor sucker flying out of bounds about 10ft it seemed. For anyone who thinks he doesnt hit hard get out there and see how it feels.

Bruce Banner
11-26-2008, 04:52 PM
I think he's making more plays lately, one of their recent games he and Cushing sent some poor sucker flying out of bounds about 10ft it seemed. For anyone who thinks he doesnt hit hard get out there and see how it feels.

Jermaine walks, Mays...?

Sabby will never start in the NFL IMO.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-26-2008, 05:45 PM
I don't think Mays is ever going to be the kind of guy who throws his hat into the fray in the box and disruptes plays in the backfield. It doesn't seem to be in his nature. But he's damn excellent at what he does, which is be the last line of defense. He's got excellent range and can go up and knock the ball down with the best of them. He's the kind of guy you want providing safety help in matchups versus top notch deep threats. He can deliver the big hit against wideouts coming across the middle and he generates enough force to seperate wideouts from the ball while they're still in the air.

I don't think Mays is a top notch safety. He's not Sean Taylor or Ronnie Lott or whoever. But he's a very talented guy who's done his job in that USC defense really well. There are defenses out there who would love to have a guy back there they can trust to make it to the ball.

STARHEATHER
11-26-2008, 10:30 PM
that is when mays likes to show his manliness. when guys are running out of bounds or they cant see him. put him mano a mano he immediately ankle dives. its just not good enough on the field for me. i dont see how you can project future nfl success from basically a career of ankle diving no single coverage and no run support and no picks basically playing cf. now hes going to have to cover man and not wahingtons wr and qb, hes going to have to run support. hes never done either. i dont see how that if was able to be utilized in all these ways basically all he does is stand 15 yds back and covers no one and make tackles only when they get beyond the line. but if you believe hes going to magically be able to do all these things hes not proven to be able to do at the college level by all means make the pick high as possible. but i dont believe until i see and i havent seen from him

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-26-2008, 10:48 PM
I want him on the Broncos like no other. Also I have a Campus Legend on NCAA with him, I just had a sick pick six against Oregon.

STARHEATHER
11-26-2008, 11:00 PM
i dont see how he would make them much better. their holes are in the front 7 and ol. theyre getting run all over every game and thats the solution. pick taylor mays. maybe in rd 3 after you got some ol or front 7 players or a rb. you have all these hles on your team causing losses and rather than address those youre going to use a high pick on taylor mays. i dont get it

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-26-2008, 11:25 PM
i dont see how he would make them much better. their holes are in the front 7 and ol. theyre getting run all over every game and thats the solution. pick taylor mays. maybe in rd 3 after you got some ol or front 7 players or a rb. you have all these hles on your team causing losses and rather than address those youre going to use a high pick on taylor mays. i dont get it

Our problem isn't just our run defense. Our entire defense is awful, and a big reason is that our safeties are atrocious. I guess saying "like no other" isn't really accurate, but if there isn't any value at ILB, I want Mays.

tEk
11-26-2008, 11:31 PM
This is the draft forum not the college forum.
i agree with ellison being the better player and to some extent a better prospect as well. sure mays has a huge ceiling, but ellison has just been a manbeast.

STARHEATHER
11-27-2008, 12:02 AM
they cant stop the run. cant stop the run cant win. mays will actually be a liability in run support. so youre going to add another porous link to a sieve. they already have all kinds of $ tied up in their secondary. and theyre still not good. they play an outdated defensive scheme any way and you add bad players to that mix then rather than try to fix the issue adress it with taylor mays or ames laurinitis? i dont see that making any team better especially one with as many holes as they have

Babylon
11-27-2008, 12:24 PM
i agree with ellison being the better player and to some extent a better prospect as well. sure mays has a huge ceiling, but ellison has just been a manbeast.


Ellison is around 6ft and about 220lbs and he'll be lucky to run a 4.65 forty, the other guy is bigger faster stronger period. Ellison does make more plays but he's a lot closer to the line of scrimmage and benefits from guys around him. I like Ellison being that he's a trojan but not even sure if he's any more than a special teamer.

Staubach12
11-27-2008, 12:28 PM
Starheather simply doesn't understand that a lot of the time, when a guy is in good coverage you don't see him, because the QB is not going to throw his way... He's an average fan and these forums are too hardcore for the average NFL fan. IGNORE HIM.

Babylon
11-27-2008, 12:35 PM
Starheather simply doesn't understand that a lot of the time, when a guy is in good coverage you don't see him, because the QB is not going to throw his way... He's an average fan and these forums are too hardcore for the average NFL fan. IGNORE HIM.

There's a certain entertainment factor with Heather, he sort of gets the juices flowing.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
11-27-2008, 05:38 PM
they cant stop the run. cant stop the run cant win. mays will actually be a liability in run support. so youre going to add another porous link to a sieve. they already have all kinds of $ tied up in their secondary. and theyre still not good. they play an outdated defensive scheme any way and you add bad players to that mix then rather than try to fix the issue adress it with taylor mays or ames laurinitis? i dont see that making any team better especially one with as many holes as they have

You can't win without stopping the pass either. So instead of reaching on someone just because it's a slightly bigger need, we should take an S, which has been a position of need forever. Plus we could have him play Cover 1 and bring an 8th guy up, thus helping the run defense.

WarOnTheShore
11-27-2008, 05:45 PM
I think StarHeather is right in some regards here. Maybe not as dramatically, but Mays shouldn't be a top 15 pick.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-27-2008, 05:59 PM
The idea that Mays doesn't tackle head on is a bit silly. He's gotten a lot better about being aggressive in the run-game this year. That said, he won't be an enforcer inside the box, and we shouldn't expect him to be no matter how big he is. If you want that safety, go after William Moore.

Zyro_1014
11-27-2008, 06:08 PM
Ellison is around 6ft and about 220lbs and he'll be lucky to run a 4.65 forty, the other guy is bigger faster stronger period. Ellison does make more plays but he's a lot closer to the line of scrimmage and benefits from guys around him. I like Ellison being that he's a trojan but not even sure if he's any more than a special teamer.

just bulk up and play some backer :)

TailbackU
11-27-2008, 07:48 PM
I agree with most of the stuff that's been said about Mays already, in terms of SC's scheme and his great range, but I do have a worry about him playing FS in the pros. The main worry I have is his size; the guys close to 240lbs and he's mentioned he has as low a body fat percentage as he can have without being anorexis, so slimming down isn't really an option. As he continues to age, you've got to think it will become harder and harder keeping that body fat percentage as low as it is. How long before he outgrows the position? The guy could easy reach 260lbs if he doesn't continue to work his butt off to keep his weight down (remember his dad was a DE in the pros). I also worry about his ability to flip his hips in coverage, something he's not had to do much of playing so deep at SC.

As far as his run support skills, it should be noted that he finished third on the team in tackles last year and is currently fourth this year. Thats pretty impressive for a guy who plays so far from the line of scrimmage (and its not like SC gives up many long runs). As some have mentioned his tackling ability has improved but I think his height is always going to hinder him in that regard in terms of leverage. Constantly going for the strip (something Pete Carroll preaches) instead of simply getting the man down also makes him look like a little worse tackler than he actually is. All in all I think he's a definite top-20 talent, who'll continue to improve as he learns the position more (remember he's only a true Jr.).

STARHEATHER
11-27-2008, 09:52 PM
hes not physical enough nearly to be a lb. hes going to get controlled in the trenches.hes not good in run support and when he does run support hes not a good tackler. hes an ankle diver. and i think youre taking a big risk having him covering nfl wrs. so for me thats not really the type of s that i want. im not speculating or blaming his scheme on the fact hes not productive. that he doesnt tackle well. that he doesnt have great ball skills. hes gotten a lot better at whatever means he wasnt good at something. and if im going to invest a rd 1 pick especially on a safety there shouldnt be anything he hasnt exhibited the ability to do at the nfl level. anything else is speculation. he might be able do this or his scheme doesnt allow him to do this or hell be better at the nfl level.

Zyro_1014
11-27-2008, 10:14 PM
hes not physical enough nearly to be a lb. hes going to get controlled in the trenches.hes not good in run support and when he does run support hes not a good tackler. hes an ankle diver. and i think youre taking a big risk having him covering nfl wrs. so for me thats not really the type of s that i want. im not speculating or blaming his scheme on the fact hes not productive. that he doesnt tackle well. that he doesnt have great ball skills. hes gotten a lot better at whatever means he wasnt good at something. and if im going to invest a rd 1 pick especially on a safety there shouldnt be anything he hasnt exhibited the ability to do at the nfl level. anything else is speculation. he might be able do this or his scheme doesnt allow him to do this or hell be better at the nfl level.

im not talking about mays man, figure it out.

you basically just posted a bunch of random stuff just to post it.

Babylon
11-28-2008, 12:48 PM
just bulk up and play some backer :)

I think he'll have to, you see a lot of short backers out there these days but his speed is going to have to be good or i don't think he'll make it.

Staubach12
11-28-2008, 01:34 PM
Kevin Ellison simply reminds me too much of Darnell Bing.

Zyro_1014
11-28-2008, 01:41 PM
Kevin Ellison simply reminds me too much of Darnell Bing.

i see that alot too, but from what i remember EVERYONE had Bing going in the 1st round and then he just didnt get drafted till when? the 4th?

No one is expecting Ellison to go 1st round, but i think hes going to be a steal for someone because hes a good football player.

diabsoule
11-28-2008, 01:42 PM
Kevin Ellison simply reminds me too much of Darnell Bing.

Darnell Bing? Wow. There's a blast from the past.

Mr. Stiller
11-28-2008, 01:52 PM
looks like tarzan, plays like jane.

Starheather talks like he knows everything, but really knows nothing.


Mays will be an excellent safety.

My largest concern is either he, or the media putting too much pressure on him because of his measurables likely securing him a higher draft slot than he might deserve. But then again that happens to a lot of prospects.. Some sink, Some swim. I think Mays does fine.

BamaFalcon59
11-28-2008, 02:00 PM
Reminds me of a less physical LaRon Landry. Landry's coverage, anyway.

BRAVEHEART
11-28-2008, 03:33 PM
Reminds me of a less physical LaRon Landry. Landry's coverage, anyway.

I hope your not talking about Mays....

Zyro_1014
11-28-2008, 10:21 PM
I hope your not talking about Mays....

haha yeah im thinking the same thing.

Staubach12
11-28-2008, 11:35 PM
i see that alot too, but from what i remember EVERYONE had Bing going in the 1st round and then he just didnt get drafted till when? the 4th?

No one is expecting Ellison to go 1st round, but i think hes going to be a steal for someone because hes a good football player.

I always thought of him as a mid-round pick. And Bing is bad. He started out with the Raiders, bounced around and now I think he's on the Lions' practice squad. I think Ellison will probably be similar as a pro, as well.

Texas Homer
12-01-2008, 01:02 AM
I wouldn't mind if the Texans took Ellison somewhere in the draft.

USC_BOUND
12-09-2008, 12:36 AM
Ok Taylor mays is A BEAST! Go watch the practices on comp tuesdays and you'll see what im talken bout!

I'm not looking forward to next season when i run a post in practice.

Giantsfan1080
12-09-2008, 12:45 AM
He'll be a dominant SS.

Zyro_1014
12-09-2008, 01:04 AM
He'll be a dominant SS.

Taylor Mays' size may scream SS but he is much more of a FS.

Chris64
12-09-2008, 01:05 AM
I think he will be a good player because of his athletic ability. As far as production at the college level? But he is also playing on a defense that has a lot of potential NFL players upfront that minimize his impact on the game. Really isnt that easy to grade him in coverage from what I have seen. This is because USC dominates their oppenents upfront so much that teams really cant throw the ball deep on them. Basically a great athlete that isnt a finished product as a player, but has the tools and will be a sure first rounder if he comes out.