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Babylon
11-30-2008, 12:33 PM
No not that bust.

It has to be Michael Johnson, DE Georgia Tech. i'm not sure what his position is. He doesn't seem to have much of a pass rush, cant hold up against the run and doesn't seem your typical OLB in a 3-4.

Potential for mediocrity in round 1(trying to be kind)

Johnson
Maualuga
Macklin
Monroe
Hardy

Smokey Joe
11-30-2008, 12:38 PM
I would say Johnson, but if the draft was tomorrow, I'd doubt Johnson would go in the 1st round. Some team would take a chance on him in the 2nd most likely, but he wouldn't go in the first.

Stafford has a fair amount of bust potential, but then again most 1st round QB's do. Both USC linebackers, even though I like Cushing a lot more then Maualuga.

Sniper
11-30-2008, 12:39 PM
Michael Johnson and Derrick Williams. Two hyped players who have little to no production at the collegiate level.

Smokey Joe
11-30-2008, 12:40 PM
Derrick Williams at least is a proven special teams player.

Babylon
11-30-2008, 12:43 PM
Michael Johnson and Derrick Williams. Two hyped players who have little to no production at the collegiate level.

Williams isnt a 1st rounder though so reduced expectations there.

Johnson is probably going to slide like Calais Campbell (50th pick). Not sure if he's that good though.

Zyro_1014
11-30-2008, 03:21 PM
Derrick Williams at least is a proven special teams player.

doesnt deserve 1st round attention though, he gets way too much hype.

holt_bruce81
11-30-2008, 03:28 PM
Why do people continue to spell his name Macklin?

Come on people if your not sure it takes 10 seconds tops to google search it.

JEREMY MACLIN

Babylon
11-30-2008, 03:32 PM
Why do people continue to spell his name Macklin?

Come on people if your not sure it takes 10 seconds tops to google search it.

JEREMY MACLIN

I can see Sniper has two accounts on here. Will never make that mistake again so as the grammar Nazis don't have to correct us.

RaiderNation
11-30-2008, 03:33 PM
Matt Stafford is a bust waiting to happen

Babylon
11-30-2008, 03:36 PM
Matt Stafford is a bust waiting to happen

I'd be curious as to what he does or doesn't do that warrants the bust claim. I don't mind the prediction because that is what the thread is about but just haven't seen anything there that would warrant the mention.

619
11-30-2008, 03:40 PM
I'd probably go with one of the ends, Johnson or Hardy, for completely different reasons. Johnson is the more risky player only because when healthy Hardy is as talented as any draft eligible defensive lineman, imo.

Scott Wright
11-30-2008, 03:41 PM
Among the seniors I would say Michael Johnson and Michael Oher.

Smokey Joe
11-30-2008, 03:44 PM
doesnt deserve 1st round attention though, he gets way too much hype.
no one said he should get 1st round attention though. If someone drafts him in the first, good luck.

Turtlepower
11-30-2008, 03:45 PM
Terrence Taylor is a late 1st rounder who has a lot of bust potential.

Habibi
11-30-2008, 03:46 PM
Michael Johnson
Sam Bradford
Eugene Monroe
Rey Maualuga
William Moore
Taylor Mays

SenorGato
11-30-2008, 03:49 PM
Um...going right now before players have had time to NFL-ize their bodies by gaining weight or losing weight:

Arthur Jones if he comes out
Any QB ever
JL and Rey Rey
George Selvie - I think he's a 4-3 DE, but he seems to have gotten labeled as a hybrid already.
Tyson Jackson
Brian Cushing
Jon Luigs

Bruce Banner
11-30-2008, 03:59 PM
Why do people continue to spell his name Macklin?

Come on people if your not sure it takes 10 seconds tops to google search it.

JEREMY MACLIN

No Missouri player deserves to have their name spelled correctly after that debacle.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-30-2008, 04:12 PM
I think Cushing has the worst risk:reward ratio of them all. Decent chance of busting, low chance of becoming a top tier NFL LB, high chance of being a 2 down guy who's nothing special. Add in that he's been dinged up a good bit already and meh

Monomach
11-30-2008, 04:21 PM
Of guys commonly believed to be first rounders:
1. Maclin
2. Bradford

Babylon
11-30-2008, 04:23 PM
I think Cushing has the worst risk:reward ratio of them all. Decent chance of busting, low chance of becoming a top tier NFL LB, high chance of being a 2 down guy who's nothing special. Add in that he's been dinged up a good bit already and meh

FWIW he has been healthy all year and is now on the field in their long distance 3rd down package there. He's good in coverage and can put pressure on the QB although given a choice i would probably take Herzlich.

Menardo75
11-30-2008, 04:25 PM
Any team that drafts Tim Tebow and expects him to play QB.

BuddyCHRIST
11-30-2008, 04:33 PM
I agree with Cushing, looks like a poor man's Bobby Carpenter right now. Vontae Davis has alot of bust potential to me, he doesn't particularly impress me when I watch and corner is such a fickle position.

BeerBaron
11-30-2008, 04:38 PM
JaMarcus Russell.

Oh wait...this years draft....

I really don't like Maclin or Harvin. Sure, they can be ace return men...fine....but as WR's.....I just don't like em. Top college athletes who I just don't see adjusting to the pro-game.

underscore
11-30-2008, 05:13 PM
Biggest bust is easily the self-proclaimed Pilejumper Laurinitis if he goes in the first round.

Geo
11-30-2008, 06:07 PM
I might say Sam Bradford, on the basis that he might get picked in the Top 5. That much money invested in a quarterback who doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed, if you catch my drift, and plays in that conference with that team.

Geo
11-30-2008, 06:10 PM
Terrence Taylor is a late 1st rounder who has a lot of bust potential.
He might not even be a late 2nd round pick. The guy has been quite disappointing this year.

A few months ago I called out Taylor as potentially being a 3rd round pick, and think more might agree with me now than they were willing to then.

sbh15
11-30-2008, 06:56 PM
It's going to be heard to call Michael Johnson a bust for a few years IMO. The guy is way too raw for anyone to expect immediate numbers.

Cigaro
11-30-2008, 07:06 PM
I think Andre Smith will be an All-Pro, but he does have a high bust potential. Short for a tackle, and a bit hefty. Also he hasn't been tested heavily pass protecting.

619
11-30-2008, 07:09 PM
I think Andre Smith will be an All-Pro, but he does have a high bust potential. Short for a tackle, and a bit hefty. Also he hasn't been tested heavily pass protecting.

I don't think so. If he doesn't exactly work out at tackle then you can always kick him inside to guard where he would be expected to dominate, imo.

SuperKevin
11-30-2008, 07:19 PM
I agree with Scott when I say Michael Oher. I feel he's the next Robert Gallery. Incredibly gifted athlete who was able to get by and succeed in college at LT but his lack of technique will doom him in the NFL.

Cigaro
11-30-2008, 07:20 PM
I don't think so. If he doesn't exactly work out at tackle then you can always kick him inside to guard where he would be expected to dominate, imo.

Yeah I know that, but who would use a top five pick on a guard?

BeerBaron
11-30-2008, 07:23 PM
Yeah I know that, but who would use a top five pick on a guard?

At least its an adequate backup plan. Can't say that about a bust QB or something like that.

MidwayMonster31
11-30-2008, 07:32 PM
Matthew Stafford. Quarterbacks need so many things to go right in order to succeed. He will also end up on a terrible team, probably Detroit. He also is inconsistent. There will be a ton of pressure on him from the beginning, since he will be a franchise face.

illmatic74
11-30-2008, 07:37 PM
Matthew Stafford. Quarterbacks need so many things to go right in order to succeed. He will also end up on a terrible team, probably Detroit. He also is inconsistent. There will be a ton of pressure on him from the beginning, since he will be a franchise face.Any QB has a high potential to be a bust.

Mr. Stiller
11-30-2008, 07:43 PM
Where's Starheather?

I'll substitute for him:

Everyone but Josh Freeman, Terrance Cody, Tony Pike and Tyson Jackson.

Those should be the only 4 drafted, everyone else is a bust.

Freeman has the potential to be an amazing QB as Does Pike. They should go 1-2 because if you have a chance ot take them, you = fail unless you do.

Babylon
11-30-2008, 07:46 PM
Where's Starheather?

I'll substitute for him:

Everyone but Josh Freeman, Terrance Cody, Tony Pike and Tyson Jackson.

Those should be the only 4 drafted, everyone else is a bust.

Freeman has the potential to be an amazing QB as Does Pike. They should go 1-2 because if you have a chance ot take them, you = fail unless you do.


It's a little early for him, he'll be showing up around 10:00 tonight, i think he's a vampire.

BeerBaron
11-30-2008, 07:48 PM
Where's Starheather?

I'll substitute for him:

Everyone but Josh Freeman, Terrance Cody, Tony Pike and Tyson Jackson.

Those should be the only 4 drafted, everyone else is a bust.

Freeman has the potential to be an amazing QB as Does Pike. They should go 1-2 because if you have a chance ot take them, you = fail unless you do.

He also thinks that Jordan Shipley should be a mid round pick.

So 1-4 should be Freeman, Pike, Cody and Jackson, then everyone else should just surrender their picks because they suck, until the 5th round when someone should take Shipley.

urinemonkey
11-30-2008, 07:51 PM
Michael Johnson would most definitely go in the 1st round, even if the draft was tomorrow.

I think Taylor Mays is one of those boom or bust guys. He will be drafted highly based on measureables, but will his play warrant it? He hasn't made a lot of plays at USC to date. He might very well be better served to stay another year, because with Maualuga, Cushing, and Ellison gone, he will likely see an increased role as the playmaker on that defense.

Mr. Stiller
11-30-2008, 07:53 PM
It's a little early for him, he'll be showing up around 10:00 tonight, i think he's a vampire.

He does effectively suck the life out of good draft discussions

jballa838
11-30-2008, 07:57 PM
It's a little early for him, he'll be showing up around 10:00 tonight, i think he's a vampire.
We must burn down Hot Topic!

Brent
11-30-2008, 07:59 PM
We must burn down Hot Topic!
oh South Park...

I would have to go with Taylor Mays as most potential for a bust.

illmatic74
11-30-2008, 08:02 PM
oh South Park...

I would have to go with Taylor Mays as most potential for a bust.Why he is having a spectacular season.

Babylon
11-30-2008, 08:03 PM
He does effectively suck the life out of good draft discussions


He did mention he liked Karl Rove, i know that guy is pure evil.

619
11-30-2008, 08:07 PM
Why he is having a spectacular season.

He's a much larger Michael Huff. Covers well, exceptional range, questionable tackling and zero playmaking ability. I hate to say it but where he's projected to go that sounds like a bust waiting to happen.

illmatic74
11-30-2008, 08:24 PM
He's a much larger Michael Huff. Covers well, exceptional range, questionable tackling and zero playmaking ability. I hate to say it but where he's projected to go that sounds like a bust waiting to happen.The tackling can be fixed. He is also more disciplined than most safety's coming into the NFL.

P-L
11-30-2008, 09:04 PM
Terrence Taylor is a late 1st rounder who has a lot of bust potential.

I HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt Terrence Taylor will see the first day, much less the first round.

johnstonolb
11-30-2008, 09:19 PM
Tebow, Stafford, Harvin -- easily.

Zyro_1014
11-30-2008, 09:27 PM
I HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt Terrence Taylor will see the first day, much less the first round.

i agree, fat people arent good football players lol

hockey619
11-30-2008, 09:37 PM
id say stafford has the highest bust potential and i think that he will fail in the nfl.

Chubby, inconsistent as hell in his accuracy and decision making. All i really see is an arm, thats it, and thats not enough to warrant a top pick that he'll get. He'll get that top pick due to inflated value if he comes out this year because theres not much to get excited about behind him.

LonghornsLegend
11-30-2008, 09:38 PM
I think Andre Smith will be an All-Pro, but he does have a high bust potential. Short for a tackle, and a bit hefty. Also he hasn't been tested heavily pass protecting.

He probably has about the lowest bust potential out of any top 5 pick right now, Andre is a complete beast and already looks the part of a very good guard at the next level.

urinemonkey
11-30-2008, 09:47 PM
He probably has about the lowest bust potential out of any top 5 pick right now, Andre is a complete beast and already looks the part of a very good guard at the next level.


He already looks the part of a Pro Bowl left tackle. And if a team drafts him top 5, it's to play tackle, not guard.

Babylon
11-30-2008, 09:48 PM
id say stafford has the highest bust potential and i think that he will fail in the nfl.

Chubby, inconsistent as hell in his accuracy and decision making. All i really see is an arm, thats it, and thats not enough to warrant a top pick that he'll get. He'll get that top pick due to inflated value if he comes out this year because theres not much to get excited about behind him.

61% accuracy would sort of dispel the accuracy claim and 6-3 and 235 is not what you'd call svelte but i'd rather a QB have a frame to take punishment, as in playing for Detroit.

Halsey
11-30-2008, 09:53 PM
Matt Ryan was the most common name in threads like these last year. :D

As a UGA fan, I feel better about Stafford as a pro prospect when I see his name brought up in these threads.

illmatic74
11-30-2008, 10:01 PM
Matt Ryan was the most common name in threads like these last year. :D

As a UGA fan, I feel better about Stafford as a pro prospect when I see his name brought up in these threads.I was a little skeptical of him early in the year. But his performance lately makes me a believer.

Sniper
11-30-2008, 10:06 PM
He already looks the part of a Pro Bowl left tackle. And if a team drafts him top 5, it's to play tackle, not guard.

That's understood. What people are saying is that if he should somehow fail at tackle (he won't, but work with me here), he could slide into guard and be a Pro Bowler.

Halsey
11-30-2008, 10:09 PM
Ever notice how people always seem to label QB's as high bust potential and OT's as safe. Remember when Robert Gallery was the safest bet in the draft. That's because people can see everything QB's do because they are on camera while OT's tend to be harder to scout and it's not as easy to tell when they do something wrong. QB's are easy to nitpick.

etk
11-30-2008, 10:50 PM
For everyone saying Laurinaitis and Maualuga....just remember that ILBs are generally very safe to draft in the 1st...hell even the 2nd.

I agree that neither are as good as they're made out to be (top 10ish)...but both should be solid starters for years.

If you're looking at true busts....I'd say Michael Oher and Brian Cushing. When it's all said and done I don't think Cushing will be a high enough pick to be considered a bust, though.

Pokeys
11-30-2008, 10:54 PM
Don't give this bs about offensive lineman being a bust...

RB Knoshown Moreno, WR Jeremy Maclin, WR Percy Harvin, DT BJ Raji, and LB James Laurinitis. Whats up!

619
11-30-2008, 10:59 PM
Don't give this bs about offensive lineman being a bust...

RB Knoshown Moreno, WR Jeremy Maclin, WR Percy Harvin, DT BJ Raji, and LB James Laurinitis. Whats up!

So let's point to a few skill position players among others ?? Maclin and Harvin are very popular when it comes to these type of discussions but I heard much the same last year with DeSean Jackson too. mhmm.

RaiderNation
11-30-2008, 11:02 PM
Andre Smith is a sure lock IMO to be a good OG in the league. And their is a great chance that he will be a dominant LT also

jtcharger24
12-01-2008, 12:02 AM
I might say Sam Bradford, on the basis that he might get picked in the Top 5. That much money invested in a quarterback who doesn't strike me as the sharpest tool in the shed, if you catch my drift, and plays in that conference with that team.

Bradford is a good student and is a business major at OU (a pretty good business school). He mastered the no huddle in one spring so he is obviously football smart. I don't understand how you could possibly get the impression that he isn't intelligent. He could definitely be a bust though due to the system he is in inflating his numbers and over hyping his draft stock (and thus his early expectations)

Geo
12-01-2008, 12:55 AM
Good to hear my early impression was off a bit then.

I think Stafford can withstand going to a bad team and pull through it if not help carry his team, but I'd be a little more worried about Bradford in that scenario. Ideally I'd like to see him stay for his junior season and declare next year, but he has a perfect opportunity this year in such a weak class so I can't necessarily blame him. And I like his accuracy, although he won't be passing to guys as wide open as they are at Oklahoma.

Gresham is Antonio Gates v2.0 btw, but I digress.

I think I mentioned this before, but I envision Stafford with his arm strength being better suited to play outdoors at a cold weather venue, and Bradford to play in a dome to really accentuate his sharp accuracy. But if Detroit is at the top and willing to go QB, it might not work out that way.

Iamcanadian
12-01-2008, 01:31 AM
Actually at this point I believe Crabtree has the biggest bust potential of everybody in the draft. It is rumored that he will run somewhere around a 4.60 at the combine. He only averaged 12.2 yds per catch this season which would seem to indicate that he may indeed be slow, if so, he may find that NFL CB's who are both football smart and fast may well eat him alive when it comes to getting seperation.
However, if he runs a fast 40 at the combine, this theory may be moot.

My other selection would be Bradford. Playing QB for a top program is often deceiving and can lead to busting. Bradford rarely has to worry about a pass rush in college, his OL usually gives him all day to throw. In the NFL this is not going to be the case and how well he adjusts to handling a pass rush has yet to be proven. He's had it very easy in college and will have to show as a pro that he can ignore a pass rush and still get the job done. It has destroyed many a top QB prospect from a top program.

LonghornsLegend
12-01-2008, 09:08 AM
He already looks the part of a Pro Bowl left tackle. And if a team drafts him top 5, it's to play tackle, not guard.

That's my point, he listed Andre Smith as someone with bust potential, my point was that if he somehow fails as a LT he would be a great guard, when did I ever say someone would draft him to play Guard? Guys like Gallery who bust get slid in to Guard, Andre would make a great one even in his worst case scenario so he shouldn't be listed in a thread with guys with high bust potential.

hockey619
12-01-2008, 11:00 AM
61% accuracy would sort of dispel the accuracy claim and 6-3 and 235 is not what you'd call svelte but i'd rather a QB have a frame to take punishment, as in playing for Detroit.


I dont mean chubby as in hes too fat to get out of his own way. Hes pretty athletic. What i mean is the chubby'ness reflects poorly on his work ethic. It seems like hes lazy and not solidly built. He seems to have lost some weight this year but i still question his work ethic some.

61% completion doesnt mean hes accurate. It means that the 61% percent of the balls that leave his hand are caught. They may not be well place paces or be easy screens and short crap routes that anybody can throw. He does throw the ball downfield a lot so it skews his completion percentage some, but his accuracy is soooo inconsistent when you watch the game its mind numbing.

He'll make one pass that makes you go 'wow, this kid is the real deal.' Then he'll throw a crappy pass into coverage and get picked or throw a wide reciever flare route way to far in front of the guy. Doesnt seem to always feel the rush that well, occassionally taking sacks that if he had slid in the pocket he could have prevented.

He has looked MUCH better this year but Im still not convinced he has what it takes to be successful in the NFL.

giantsfan
12-01-2008, 11:07 AM
Any team that drafts Tim Tebow and expects him to play QB...in less than 2 years

just felt like correcting that for you.

BBIB
12-01-2008, 11:28 AM
Matt Ryan was the most common name in threads like these last year. :D

As a UGA fan, I feel better about Stafford as a pro prospect when I see his name brought up in these threads.

Matt Ryan stayed to his Senior year and the reason why I personally bashed him because I thought they were making an excuse for his INTs by saying his receivers were garbage.

Well

A)STafford does not have that extra year

B)He clearly cannot make the same argument about his wideouts.

Halsey
12-01-2008, 11:31 AM
A lot of people seem to think Knowshon Moreno will be a bust or dissapointment because he doesn't have ideal size or elite speed. When I watch a guy like Warrick Dunn, who is smaller and slower at this point than Moreno, I laugh at people who think measurables are everything. I don't think Moreno is worth a top 15 pick, but his lack of ideal size and speed will not make him a bust.

Halsey
12-01-2008, 11:41 AM
Matt Ryan stayed to his Senior year and the reason why I personally bashed him because I thought they were making an excuse for his INTs by saying his receivers were garbage.

Well

A)STafford does not have that extra year

B)He clearly cannot make the same argument about his wideouts.

Mat Ryan wouldn't have stayed till his Senior year if he was considered that top pro QB prospect in college football in his 3rd year of college. Matt Ryan didn't win the starting job till halfway into his 3rd year of college. Stafford was the full time starter at an SEC school halfway into his true freshman year. Stafford was considered the top QB prospect in the country before AJ Green ever played a snap at UGA. Before this year Stafford's WR corp was Massaquoi and a bunch of guys. He's never had anyone special at TE to throw to. Bradford has better weapons in the passing game to work with.

And NFL teams don't draft QB's with the intention of not surrounding them with good targets to throw to. If he goes to Detroit he'll have Calvin Johnson to throw to, Kansas City has Bowe and Gonzalez, and so on. Matt Ryan has Roddy White to throw to.

jnew76
12-01-2008, 12:14 PM
No one has mentioned Brian Orakpo or Greg Hardy -

Orakpo has been limited by injuries after a great start. He might have maxed out his frame as far as muscle mass goes and still might be a little small for a 4-3 DE. He is a little fragile. I personally love him as a prospect, but I see his bust potential.

Hardy has all the physical abilities, but has been injury prone and his motor has been questioned. The motor questions are really worrisome to me and are why I am not as high on him as a prospect.

Menardo75
12-01-2008, 01:49 PM
Any team that drafts Tim Tebow and expects him to play QB ever

just felt like correcting that for you.


Don't worry I fixed it.

Bengals78
12-01-2008, 02:00 PM
I dont mean chubby as in hes too fat to get out of his own way. Hes pretty athletic. What i mean is the chubby'ness reflects poorly on his work ethic. It seems like hes lazy and not solidly built. He seems to have lost some weight this year but i still question his work ethic some.


Some people are just pudgy and "fat-bodied". Peyton Manning isnt exactly ripped. Sometimes its better for a QB to have less of the muscle mass. The motions become robotic when you have a body-builder frame sometimes. I've known people who bust their butts in the weight room but never seem to add muscle because its just not in their frame or genetics.

Look up Fedor Emelianenko if you think being chubby is a direct reflection on work-ethic.

sbh15
12-01-2008, 02:01 PM
Don't worry I fixed it.

Oh... my... god. What a groundbreaking prediction to make. Say Tim Tebow won't be able to play quarterback. Probably the most ballsy statement of all time... not.

Tebow has the arm and has the size. He needs help from a NFL offensive coordinator to be good, but he can become a good NFL QB.

Babylon
12-01-2008, 02:36 PM
Some people are just pudgy and "fat-bodied". Peyton Manning isnt exactly ripped. Sometimes its better for a QB to have less of the muscle mass. The motions become robotic when you have a body-builder frame sometimes. I've known people who bust their butts in the weight room but never seem to add muscle because its just not in their frame or genetics.

Look up Fedor Emelianenko if you think being chubby is a direct reflection on work-ethic.


Safe to say Stafford's build isnt a problem. Probably the same as a Jay Cutler for those that need a comparison. I would go as far as saying his frame probably saved him an injury or two with all the shots he's taken over his 3 years there.

As for the Matt Ryan being at BC for 4 years i would point out that they both have about the same number of starts at this point, probably in the 32-34 range. Adjust your mocks accordingly.

Bengals78
12-01-2008, 02:41 PM
I couldn't agree more. I would rather want a soft looking QB rather than a body-builder.

Larry121283
12-01-2008, 02:42 PM
I'm going to keep quiet about Michael Johnson, because he could be the type of player that just needs a summer with NFL people to coach him up and an opportunity to be a wave pass rusher and he could be productive as early as his rookie season.

At first glance, the kid doesn't have it. He is all athleticism, no technique, no football skills. But, kids like this have bitten me in the ass before. He is as big a boom or bust player as there is in this class.

Brandon Pettigrew might not be a bust, but I don't see the outstanding TE ability for the next level. Possibly a Marcedes Lewis type career.

Babylon
12-01-2008, 02:52 PM
I'm going to keep quiet about Michael Johnson, because he could be the type of player that just needs a summer with NFL people to coach him up and an opportunity to be a wave pass rusher and he could be productive as early as his rookie season.

At first glance, the kid doesn't have it. He is all athleticism, no technique, no football skills. But, kids like this have bitten me in the ass before. He is as big a boom or bust player as there is in this class.

Brandon Pettigrew might not be a bust, but I don't see the outstanding TE ability for the next level. Possibly a Marcedes Lewis type career.


I agree with everything you said about Johnson but i still wouldn't take him early. Mid round 2 he starts to look like less of a risk.

Halsey
12-01-2008, 02:59 PM
Anyone saying Stafford is fat is the guy who said Matt Ryan's arm was too weak. You are clueless. Go look at some pictures and do a little better job of pretending you know what you're talking about.

http://flickr.com/photos/kellylambert/1480819044/

Babylon
12-01-2008, 03:08 PM
Anyone saying Stafford is fat is the guy who said Matt Ryan's arm was too weak. You are clueless. Go look at some pictures and do a little better job of pretending you know what you're talking about.

http://flickr.com/photos/kellylambert/1480819044/

Shoud we all be so fat right?

DoWnThEfiElD
12-01-2008, 03:12 PM
Do we need this thread, didn't mythbusta lay this all out for us alread?? :-)

hockey619
12-01-2008, 03:30 PM
Anyone saying Stafford is fat is the guy who said Matt Ryan's arm was too weak. You are clueless. Go look at some pictures and do a little better job of pretending you know what you're talking about.

http://flickr.com/photos/kellylambert/1480819044/



Ive got an older pick of him too.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp2.blogger.com/_rBmhiLxmkN4/RrwGFiaaDcI/AAAAAAAAAEs/19q5bwRRf54/s320/Stafford%2Btakes%2Bthe%2Bplunge.jpg&imgrefurl=http://breatheifyoulovefootball.blogspot.com/2007/08/mark-richt-does-carl-edwards.html&usg=__YxkG3GZRSwOofNHRrGU_qHNXfwk=&h=238&w=320&sz=13&hl=en&start=8&um=1&tbnid=E_zq8VXkebnUUM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmatthew%2Bstafford%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26rlz%3D1T4GGLR_enUS247US248

Not exactly cut huh. Hes definitely in better shape now but I still think hes gunna look a little heavy at weigh ins a the combine unless he gets work at losin the beer gut.

Im not looking for him to be a body builder. He doesnt have to bench like Cutler and Quinn did coming out. But id like to see him have solid core strength rather than the kegger body build hes got happenin now. Hes tough to get a read on because supposedly he has good film room habits but he doesnt look like the classic hard worker, which is what i look for in players. Not a hard worker almost always leads to failure.

And Peyton might not have the arms of a body builder, but hes solid and in shape. Same with the other great qbs like Brady. Not jacked like Orakpo, but in shape and solidly built rather than soft and heavy set.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp1.blogger.com/_1OlAeTO_yvo/R8lx5VzFF6I/AAAAAAAADRk/VPSQhZQ6eW4/s320/football%2Bpeyton%2Bmanning.jpg&imgrefurl=http://twinkees.blogspot.com/2008/03/top-twinks-football-12-peyton-manning.html&usg=__uDVxGV06KpwQnLPr9KOmrBBNG60=&h=268&w=320&sz=20&hl=en&start=9&um=1&tbnid=LrulCObp98ubkM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpeyton%2Bmanning%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%2 6rlz%3D1T4GGLR_enUS247US248%26sa%3DN
Peyton Manning

SchizophrenicBatman
12-01-2008, 03:36 PM
Actually at this point I believe Crabtree has the biggest bust potential of everybody in the draft. It is rumored that he will run somewhere around a 4.60 at the combine. He only averaged 12.2 yds per catch this season which would seem to indicate that he may indeed be slow, if so, he may find that NFL CB's who are both football smart and fast may well eat him alive when it comes to getting seperation.
However, if he runs a fast 40 at the combine, this theory may be moot.

I dont know if Crabtree will be a bust but I do know he will lead the NFL in fumbles his rookie season

Scott Wright
12-01-2008, 03:37 PM
Matthew Stafford's weight is NOT an issue at all.

georgiafan
12-01-2008, 03:52 PM
So let me get this straight a month ago Stafford was over rated because he didn't have the production. Since then he has thrown for 1,000 yards, 10 TD and 1 interception in 3 games. While 2 of those being game winning TD drives in the final minute. Now he is over rated because of his weight.

Babylon
12-01-2008, 04:43 PM
So let me get this straight a month ago Stafford was over rated because he didn't have the production. Since then he has thrown for 1,000 yards, 10 TD and 1 interception in 3 games. While 2 of those being game winning TD drives in the final minute. Now he is over rated because of his weight.


What next?

Brent
12-01-2008, 04:51 PM
Whats next?
He's overrated because he plays in the SEC! I still like the guy. I think people just focus too much on Georgia not winning every game

STARHEATHER
12-01-2008, 07:51 PM
sam bradford huge bust especially if he goes to det or kc.he wont be getting 200 on the ground and have all day back there to pick out whichever db is unathletic enough to cover a plethora of nfl draft pick receivers. i just cant wait to see bradford under pressure.got james harrison off the corner against bradford with that sieve blocking.lights out bradford. if beanie goes to cincy. hes finished before he started. its nfc south or bust for beanie. eben britton is another guy moving towards bust land. hes like a smaller slower weaker joe thomas clone. not good.

illmatic74
12-01-2008, 07:54 PM
sam bradford huge bust especially if he goes to det or kc.he wont be getting 200 on the ground and have all day back there to pick out whichever db is unathletic enough to cover a plethora of nfl draft pick receivers. i just cant wait to see bradford under pressure.got james harrison off the corner against bradford with that sieve blocking.lights out bradford. if beanie goes to cincy. hes finished before he started. its nfc south or bust for beanie. eben britton is another guy moving towards bust land. hes like a smaller slower weaker joe thomas clone. not good.Are you saying Joe Thomas sucks

STARHEATHER
12-01-2008, 07:59 PM
joe thomas may just be the most overrated player in the nfl. i dont know about sux. but hes certainly not nearly as good as advertised. every game i see he is not good. against steelers, gets manhandled. si i wouldnt want to use a high pick on a slower smaller weaker not as good version like eben britton.

illmatic74
12-01-2008, 08:02 PM
Also do you think Tony Pike could start for Det or KC next year and be succesful? Also one more thing is every evaluation based on how well a player plays against the Steelers?

STARHEATHER
12-01-2008, 09:19 PM
i think hed at least be able to get out of the pocket elude some rushers and stretch the field with his arm.i would definitley prefer to have pikes mobility out there vs the steelers. i know bradfords going to stand there and get killed. theyre the measuring stick right now. no one has been able to do anything consistently against them. i set my bar against the best. so if youre going to win a superbowl chances are youll have to be able to be effective against them. if you cant be effective against them or have the potential to be effective, then youre not worth it because youre going to play them and they will do what they did to matt cassel. pike s the only guy ive seen that id say ok maybe we have a chance to do something. get out of the pocket. make some deep throws. take advantage of their agressivenss. give the receivers some time. doesnt mean it will work. but at leats theres a shot. if bradford doesnt get a running game and he gets pressure his effectiveness has gone down. he has many sub nfl level traits. his brian brohm/brady quinn. ill take pike. you can have bradford thats how confident i am bradford is going to flop city. i want beanie so bad. im so confident that these guys are bad im begging for them to go to cincy. please give me beanie!

619
12-01-2008, 09:27 PM
you can have bradford thats how confident i am bradford is going to flop city.

Haha, so who else is going to flop city ?

Geason Noceur
12-01-2008, 09:29 PM
Ive got an older pick of him too.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp2.blogger.com/_rBmhiLxmkN4/RrwGFiaaDcI/AAAAAAAAAEs/19q5bwRRf54/s320/Stafford%2Btakes%2Bthe%2Bplunge.jpg&imgrefurl=http://breatheifyoulovefootball.blogspot.com/2007/08/mark-richt-does-carl-edwards.html&usg=__YxkG3GZRSwOofNHRrGU_qHNXfwk=&h=238&w=320&sz=13&hl=en&start=8&um=1&tbnid=E_zq8VXkebnUUM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmatthew%2Bstafford%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26rlz%3D1T4GGLR_enUS247US248

Not exactly cut huh. Hes definitely in better shape now but I still think hes gunna look a little heavy at weigh ins a the combine unless he gets work at losin the beer gut.

Im not looking for him to be a body builder. He doesnt have to bench like Cutler and Quinn did coming out. But id like to see him have solid core strength rather than the kegger body build hes got happenin now. Hes tough to get a read on because supposedly he has good film room habits but he doesnt look like the classic hard worker, which is what i look for in players. Not a hard worker almost always leads to failure.

And Peyton might not have the arms of a body builder, but hes solid and in shape. Same with the other great qbs like Brady. Not jacked like Orakpo, but in shape and solidly built rather than soft and heavy set.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bp1.blogger.com/_1OlAeTO_yvo/R8lx5VzFF6I/AAAAAAAADRk/VPSQhZQ6eW4/s320/football%2Bpeyton%2Bmanning.jpg&imgrefurl=http://twinkees.blogspot.com/2008/03/top-twinks-football-12-peyton-manning.html&usg=__uDVxGV06KpwQnLPr9KOmrBBNG60=&h=268&w=320&sz=20&hl=en&start=9&um=1&tbnid=LrulCObp98ubkM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpeyton%2Bmanning%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%2 6rlz%3D1T4GGLR_enUS247US248%26sa%3DN
Peyton Manning

If this is a beer gut (http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g50/Horizons01/USPresswire083008GSUPaulAbell02b.jpg), then somebody lied to me about the effects of overindulging in spirits.:mad:

giantsfan
12-01-2008, 09:35 PM
I'm going to keep quiet about Michael Johnson, because he could be the type of player that just needs a summer with NFL people to coach him up and an opportunity to be a wave pass rusher and he could be productive as early as his rookie season.

At first glance, the kid doesn't have it. He is all athleticism, no technique, no football skills. But, kids like this have bitten me in the ass before. He is as big a boom or bust player as there is in this class.

Brandon Pettigrew might not be a bust, but I don't see the outstanding TE ability for the next level. Possibly a Marcedes Lewis type career.

I think the key for Michael Johnson will be good coaching to motivate him to dominate on every play and polish his technique so he doesn't exhaust himself playing on pure athleticism. That said I wouldn't pick in the top half of the first round despite the beastly combine he's going to have. But in the latter half where teams usual give their rookies time and consistent coaching I really like him.

As for Pettigrew the thing that's so appealing about him is that he's just such a well rounded player, runs good routes for a college kid, has consistent hands and blocks well on a regular basis. He doesn't flash dominance to be an elite player, but he also doesn't have plays where he just looks helpless like so many more physically talented players do. This kid will give you toughness, consistency and help your team in a variety of ways. So for a second round pick I don't really see him as a potential bust, unless of course that assaulting an officer thing de-rails his career.

Vontae Davis is a guy who worries me because even though he plays hard, he doesn't play smart, now in college his athletic ability lets him get away with that and to an extent it will in the NFL, but he's going to need some good coaching to get him to that elite level

Rey Rey's another guy who my concern isn't too much busting as much as it is overdrafting. if he's a top 10 pick there'll be a case to be made of him being a bust but anywhere from 10-20 I think he coudl be a great pick. He'll give you physicality and energy, he's a hard worker but he's on the stiffish side and really shows a lot of room for improvement in how he handles blockers and his tackling form.

USc team-mate Taylor Mays is another guy I'm afraid will get drafted too high creating early expectations I don't expect him to reach. He's got great range for a guy with his crazy size but he plays a pretty finesse game for a guy with his size. That worries me because either he just isn't all that physical or he's thinking too much or too slowly, all of which are concerns for a Safety.

Tebow is another guy who could get screwed by being forced into a position where he's asked to contribute too early for the obvious reasons of his footwork, delivery speed and reads.

STARHEATHER
12-01-2008, 10:17 PM
flop city

maaluga
laurinitis
wells
bradford
crabtree
britton
jenkins

dabears10
12-01-2008, 10:21 PM
flop city

maaluga
laurinitis
wells
bradford
crabtree
britton
jenkins

Just when I am feeling slow and sapped from life, I just read one of your posts. It's like a hot cup of cocoa with marshmallows and whip cream. It's like a curling up with a loved one on a cold day in front of a fire place. It's great.

etk
12-01-2008, 10:21 PM
Who's Britton? Bruton? Britt? Combination?

Agree on Pettigrew Larry. I just don't see anything special in him besides his size. Lewis is a great comparison.

Zyro_1014
12-01-2008, 10:22 PM
flop city

maaluga
laurinitis
wells
bradford
crabtree
britton
jenkins

i just feel like you try to name the best players at every position.

STARHEATHER
12-01-2008, 10:28 PM
the top rated players according to whom. not me or greg jones. liking everyone the media likes is a recipe for picking glenn dorsey or d mac. i wish i could ust go back and pull all the posts of how great dorsey was and how great chris long was going to be. you ust cant put your name behind todd mcshays top 10. recipe for picking sedrick ellis. bitter tasting and vomit inducing

Zyro_1014
12-01-2008, 10:31 PM
the top rated players according to whom. not me or greg jones. liking everyone the media likes is a recipe for picking glenn dorsey or d mac. i wish i could ust go back and pull all the posts of how great dorsey was and how great chris long was going to be. you ust cant put your name behind todd mcshays top 10. recipe for picking sedrick ellis. bitter tasting and vomit inducing

i dont understand why you think rookies are suppose to produce right from the start?

giantsfan
12-01-2008, 10:35 PM
the top rated players according to whom. not me or greg jones. liking everyone the media likes is a recipe for picking glenn dorsey or d mac. i wish i could ust go back and pull all the posts of how great dorsey was and how great chris long was going to be. you ust cant put your name behind todd mcshays top 10. recipe for picking sedrick ellis. bitter tasting and vomit inducing

I like that bitter taste, because it's so funny watching people jump the gun on young men and make total asses out of themselves.

i dont understand why you think rookies are suppose to produce right from the start?

I'm pretty sure his logic is that if some rookies can dominate early all top 10 picks should be able to dominate early otherwise they're not worth the pick or something stupid like that.

Zyro_1014
12-01-2008, 10:40 PM
I like that bitter taste, because it's so funny watching people jump the gun on young men and make total asses out of themselves.



I'm pretty sure his logic is that if some rookies can dominate early all top 10 picks should be able to dominate early otherwise they're not worth the pick or something stupid like that.

idk why i feel the need to argue with him....ask myself everytime i do it.

AGGGGGGGH!

STARHEATHER
12-01-2008, 10:41 PM
im quite confident im right. . never waivered always knew. you can hope but whats happening on the field, theyre all going to be back in the top 10. i believe generally players show quickly once they are actually playing in games. there may be exceptions. but theyre exceptions. these guys havent been ok or flashed on occasion. theyve been awful. i dont see too much awful to great. it just doesnt happen that way too often

illmatic74
12-01-2008, 10:46 PM
im quite confident im right. . never waivered always knew. you can hope but whats happening on the field, theyre all going to be back in the top 10. i believe generally players show quickly once they are actually playing in games. there may be exceptions. but theyre exceptions. these guys havent been ok or flashed on occasion. theyve been awful. i dont see too much awful to great. it just doesnt happen that way too oftenNFL Draft is an inexact science. Which is one of the reasons it is so fun to argue. Even the Mike Mayock's and Scott Wright's of the world get a few things wrong. To think that you are smarter than everyone else who follows this and you are someone who is never wrong is absurd.

Zyro_1014
12-01-2008, 11:02 PM
NFL Draft is an inexact science. Which is one of the reasons it is so fun to argue. Even the Mike Mayock's and Scott Wright's of the world get a few things wrong. To think that you are smarter than everyone else who follows this and you are someone who is never wrong is absurd.

touche my friend, said very well

STARHEATHER
12-01-2008, 11:04 PM
i dont think it is. you cant be 100% right too many variables. it would be more accurate if more time was spent eliminating prospects as opposed to finding them. only 50% of top ten picks meet expectations historically many years even less. so if you looked at this past years top 10 and you went down that list who do you eliminate. generally not tackles or qbs so that takes off long and ryan. golstin is the most freakish athlete. so you generally want to keep the best athlete because if they pan out and he may not they become great players. then you have the patriots targeting mayo. so thats a sign he might be pretty good because they draft well. hes also a top end athlete. harvey cost a ton so for him to pan out hes going to have to be great. that leaves dorsey, ellis, c long, mcfadden, rivers. all going to teams that have a recent history of very poor drafting.elimination is where its at. not finding or discovery. mayock is in the business of predicting draft order via inside information. thats why they get so many right in order, but wrong as far as quality of player and value of the pick.

giantsfan
12-01-2008, 11:12 PM
Your problem is you expect immediate dominance when in the NFL most players need a few years to really acclimate and start performing to their abilities, from their it's perfection of technique and nuance. The one's who don't struggle are the exceptions in the NFL especially with players like Dorsey and Long who are asked to do so much for such poor teams right off the bat.

STARHEATHER
12-01-2008, 11:26 PM
on occasion. but its generally playing behind another good player. most guys ive found once they get out there it shows pretty quick. you dont see too many playing as bad as dorsey for as long suddenly turning pro bowl. im feeling good ryan, long, mayo wont flame. golstin is playing behind decent players so i still like his potential. harvey all they gave up going to be tough to be worth it. the others are all awful at this point. one might turn into a decent player so history says some combination of those 7 players at least 5 will be busts maybe more. i look at golstin and maybe dmac or harvey having the ability to step up. history then leaves dorsey, ellis, c long, rivers. almost lock all will not live up to their paycheck or draft area.one may get the light. plus a good chance at all 7 will flame out. follow the history it shows the future. its never going to be right. the top 10 media picks are not the best players. not even close

Babylon
12-02-2008, 12:26 AM
Who's Britton? Bruton? Britt? Combination?

Agree on Pettigrew Larry. I just don't see anything special in him besides his size. Lewis is a great comparison.

Eben Britton jr OT Arizona. The guy is actually good, not sure whether he's coming out.

giantsfan
12-02-2008, 12:43 AM
Eben Britton jr OT Arizona. The guy is actually good, not sure whether he's coming out.

If he comes out he's a better prospect than Monroe and stronger in the run game than Jason Smith. I'd probably still take Andre Smith and Oher over him, but he'd probably be my number three OT.

CroomDawgs
12-02-2008, 09:20 AM
As soon as I saw this thread I knew STARHEATHER would ruin it

dabears10
12-02-2008, 09:27 AM
As soon as I saw this thread I knew STARHEATHER would ruin it

Well, thats only because you haven't been to Flop City.

Babylon
12-02-2008, 11:09 AM
If he comes out he's a better prospect than Monroe and stronger in the run game than Jason Smith. I'd probably still take Andre Smith and Oher over him, but he'd probably be my number three OT.

And some people who know what they're talking about seem to think he would be the second tackle off the board. If this is true then why wouldn't he come out?

Bengals78
12-02-2008, 11:20 AM
Some people love college football and the college experience. Only get to do it once so live it up.

etk
12-02-2008, 11:27 AM
on occasion. but its generally playing behind another good player.

So I'm sure you called for Palmer to be a bust when he sat behind Jon Kitna for a year. lol.

How about the players who are studs as rookies and then fall off the map?
Michael Clayton, Cadillac Williams....

You don't have the slightest clue as to which players will be successful. You just wake up in the morning, turn on SI.com and whatever college football player is pictured on the front is "a sure-fire bust".

Babylon
12-02-2008, 11:36 AM
Some people love college football and the college experience. Only get to do it once so live it up.

No disrespect but i hate that line of thinking. For 99.9% of these guys it's their livelihood. If they blow out a knee next year they're screwed.

Solomon
12-02-2008, 12:29 PM
Michael Johnson and Derrick Williams. Two hyped players who have little to no production at the collegiate level.

Michael Johnson HAD little production until this year. This year he has led the Yellow Jackets with 15 TFL, 7 sacks and 8 passes defended and was just named first team All-ACC. Putting up numbers like that on a team with 90 total tackles for loss is impressive. Granted without his athleticism he wouldn't be thought of as a first rounder but he has shown that he can be a productive college player in addition to his physical ability. If Kentwan Balmer can be a first rounder I'm not sure why Johnson wouldn't be.

DoWnThEfiElD
12-02-2008, 12:30 PM
Flop City Lol

Bengals78
12-02-2008, 12:38 PM
No disrespect but i hate that line of thinking. For 99.9% of these guys it's their livelihood. If they blow out a knee next year they're screwed.

Or if they blow out their knee in the rookie season and they can never play again. A college degree might be useful there.

Comphockey7
12-02-2008, 12:42 PM
You can always go back to college to get your degree.

ChezPower4
12-02-2008, 01:10 PM
I'm going to have to agree with a lot of you and go with Johnson. He'll be so hyped because of his high ceilling but what has he even done in college... not much. Stafford is another guy who'll be taken high that could be a huge bust.

Mr. Stiller
12-02-2008, 02:41 PM
joe thomas may just be the most overrated player in the nfl. i dont know about sux. but hes certainly not nearly as good as advertised. every game i see he is not good. against steelers, gets manhandled. si i wouldnt want to use a high pick on a slower smaller weaker not as good version like eben britton.

Dude. Seriously, As much as I love our Defense, outside of his first game in the league, Joe Thomas has shut down Harrison and Keisel.

You =/= draft guru.


My 2 guys...

Jason Smith and Duke Robinson.

Smith has all the potential in the world to be an amazing Tackle in this league, but he's extremely extremely raw. He will get drafted early because of said potential but whether he develops or not is cause for concern.

Robinson is overrated. Bash me all you want. He lets every defender into his body, doesn't use his arms or strength and needs to get in way better shape. Another all-world potential guy but it's not his abilities faulting him, it's himself. Anyone that thinks he's a world beater, please watch the OUvsWVU bowl game.. He hasn't really improved his Stamina, his weight, or improved much on strength (Hard to tell since he only uses his hands/arms on LB's.) He could be great, but he could also be below average if he doesn't buy into what the coach is selling.

giantsfan
12-02-2008, 02:43 PM
And some people who know what they're talking about seem to think he would be the second tackle off the board. If this is true then why wouldn't he come out?

if he waits he's got a much better chance at being the top OT in 2010 than in 2009. I could see him being number 2 for people who are down on oher, but he isn't going to surpass Andre Smith, next year I could definately see him being a top three pick if he keeps progressing.

Babylon
12-02-2008, 03:02 PM
Or if they blow out their knee in the rookie season and they can never play again. A college degree might be useful there.

Don't get me wrong i'm all for a kid getting a degree but these guys are now on campus all year long working out so taking some extra classes to graduate in 3 years is easier than it used to be. Besides it's Arizona not freaking Stanford or Notre Dame.

Mr. Stiller
12-02-2008, 03:20 PM
Don't get me wrong i'm all for a kid getting a degree but these guys are now on campus all year long working out so taking some extra classes to graduate in 3 years is easier than it used to be. Besides it's Arizona not freaking Stanford or Notre Dame.

Even so, There's always people that feel their Academics aren't 2nd to Football.

Myron Rolle for example.

STARHEATHER
12-02-2008, 08:10 PM
browns shut down steelers defense right. thomas owns any steelers. right. if you say so. and i prefer the dorseyville express to bustland.

Malaka
12-02-2008, 08:16 PM
Okay so you are definitely a Steelers fan...

Mr. Stiller
12-02-2008, 08:38 PM
browns shut down steelers defense right. thomas owns any steelers. right. if you say so. and i prefer the dorseyville express to bustland.

Hmm. Okay, i'll bite.

No the Browns didn't shut down our defense.

Original Comment:

joe thomas may just be the most overrated player in the nfl. i dont know about sux. but hes certainly not nearly as good as advertised. every game i see he is not good. against steelers, gets manhandled.

Joe Thomas isn't godly by any means, and he offers almost nothing in the run game, but he's shut down James Harrison in 2 games straight. He's a damn good pass blocker. He was worth that 3rd overall they used on him.



So after your drivel about him sucking, I explain that he has been doing damn good against us.

Then you turn around and say "Yeah the browns shut down the Steelers defense".

Thats not what I said, Your comprehension rivals your grammar.

Outside of his rookie game in 2007 Johnson has not given up a sack to a Steelers player in ... woops sorry, 2 straight meetings.

Thats damn good considering he's faced an all-pro James Harrison in all 3 of the games.


So before you twist that in a way only your demented mind could. The Browns didn't shut our defense down. But Joe Thomas has shut Harrison out in 2 games.. Every game I've seen him he's as lock down a pass blocker as you can get.

No one will confuse him with Ogden, Pace, Jones in their primes... but he is probably the best pass blocking OT in the NFL.

STARHEATHER
12-02-2008, 09:46 PM
please explain damn good. i dont see any wins or explosive offensive performances or even ok performances. i have no problem with him or his draft position. hes just not a great player as advertised. but hes a dude who can play lt at a decent level so. my point was oben britton is a smaller slower weaker less athletic joe thomas therefore he will bust.

Sniper
12-02-2008, 09:48 PM
Right, because great offensive performances go hand in hand with one player's, especially one offensive lineman's performance. :rolleyes:

STARHEATHER
12-02-2008, 09:50 PM
that is a classic

Sniper
12-02-2008, 09:57 PM
that is a classic

You're so right. If a left tackle gets beat like a red-headed stepchild and gives up five sacks but the rest of the OL plays great and the team scores 40 points, it must mean the LT had a great game.

LonghornsLegend
12-02-2008, 10:00 PM
browns shut down steelers defense right. thomas owns any steelers. right. if you say so. and i prefer the dorseyville express to bustland.

I BET you were one of the guys calling Mario Williams a bust 6 games into his rookie year also.

Mr. Stiller
12-02-2008, 10:49 PM
please explain damn good. i dont see any wins or explosive offensive performances or even ok performances. i have no problem with him or his draft position. hes just not a great player as advertised. but hes a dude who can play lt at a decent level so. my point was oben britton is a smaller slower weaker less athletic joe thomas therefore he will bust.

I would explain but your small mind wouldn't understand it.

And good lord... Now that I think about it.. I did freakin explain it.

25 starters compose the starting team. If you have 24 bad ones and 1 amazing one, that doesn't mean the amazing player is pathetic because he can't do it all.

You don't understand football.

And Eben Britton is not a smaller slower, weaker, less athletic joe thomas.

He's not the pass blocker Thomas is, but he is Bigger, and stronger coming out. And he's not a top 5 pick.

I don't get your comparison in the least. The only comparison between the 2 is they're white.

619
12-02-2008, 10:52 PM
Arguing with STARHEATHER is useless, why do you guys even bother most of the time? I guess I shall never know ..

Mr. Stiller
12-02-2008, 10:55 PM
Arguing with STARHEATHER is useless, why do you guys even bother most of the time? I guess I shall never know ..

It's just aggravating.

Now I would never hit a handicapped kid in real life.. but if some someone with his kind of idiocy kept trying to sound smart around me the way he does, I would have to punch him.

etk
12-04-2008, 03:28 PM
Michael Johnson HAD little production until this year. This year he has led the Yellow Jackets with 15 TFL, 7 sacks and 8 passes defended and was just named first team All-ACC. Putting up numbers like that on a team with 90 total tackles for loss is impressive. Granted without his athleticism he wouldn't be thought of as a first rounder but he has shown that he can be a productive college player in addition to his physical ability. If Kentwan Balmer can be a first rounder I'm not sure why Johnson wouldn't be.

He's played well this year, regardless of what his numbers say. In the past he was a backup, a nobody, a pylon. This year he's always around the ball and he's a noticeable standout on defense. His pass rushing needs a lot of the work but he's still exceptional in pursuit.

His physical gifts are not made up and they don't go unused when he's on the field. He just needs to refine his game. He looks a lot like Gaines Adams and Gaines struggled a lot for most of his rookie year. It's not unheard of for a DE with natural talent to work on the little things and see a big turnaround. The little things make a big difference at a position where every split-second counts.

Babylon
12-04-2008, 04:08 PM
He's played well this year, regardless of what his numbers say. In the past he was a backup, a nobody, a pylon. This year he's always around the ball and he's a noticeable standout on defense. His pass rushing needs a lot of the work but he's still exceptional in pursuit.

His physical gifts are not made up and they don't go unused when he's on the field. He just needs to refine his game. He looks a lot like Gaines Adams and Gaines struggled a lot for most of his rookie year. It's not unheard of for a DE with natural talent to work on the little things and see a big turnaround. The little things make a big difference at a position where every split-second counts.


A very high risk high reward player. In the few games i've seen of Gerogia Tech this year he was ineffective. Against Georgia, a team that has struggled against good defensive lines, he was a no show. Buyer beware with this guy although i would say he'll certainly look good in shorts at the combine.

STARHEATHER
12-04-2008, 07:14 PM
actually i was one of the only people on the planet who appluaded and said it was a great pick mw. when youre a physical freak of that nature its only a matter of time. everyone else thought they should have taken bush. you can continue to blame other players. you should ust do what mcshay and the rest do and try to not talk about and distance yourself and from mistakes with excuses and blame on the coach gm/ owner broadcast team cheerleading squad and whover else. my hero glenn dorsey ust cant be bad. it must be someone elses fault how could i bee so wrong ok ill blame herm edwards

CashmoneyDrew
12-04-2008, 07:22 PM
actually i was one of the only people on the planet who appluaded and said it was a great pick mw. when youre a physical freak of that nature its only a matter of time. everyone else thought they should have taken bush. you can continue to blame other players. you should ust do what mcshay and the rest do and try to not talk about and distance yourself and from mistakes with excuses and blame on the coach gm/ owner broadcast team cheerleading squad and whover else. my hero glenn dorsey ust cant be bad. it must be someone elses fault how could i bee so wrong ok ill blame herm edwards

The Texans are 5-7. Mario Williams sucks.

GBahDunka
12-04-2008, 08:45 PM
mario williams was an absolute beast the other night.

Sniper
12-04-2008, 08:48 PM
The Texans are 5-7. Mario Williams sucks.

Don't forget Andre Johnson! Bust!

Monomach
12-04-2008, 10:43 PM
please explain damn good. i dont see any wins or explosive offensive performances or even ok performances. i have no problem with him or his draft position. hes just not a great player as advertised. but hes a dude who can play lt at a decent level so. my point was oben britton is a smaller slower weaker less athletic joe thomas therefore he will bust.
You want a tackle to make explosive offensive plays?

Really?

Paranoidmoonduck
12-04-2008, 10:50 PM
You want a tackle to make explosive offensive plays?

Really?

eBrdA2Mon7A

Monomach
12-04-2008, 10:54 PM
eBrdA2Mon7A
I love the DB that very slowly dropped the man he was covering and jogged toward Smith so that he could arrive at the goal line just barely too late to attempt a tackle.

This makes me think. The Bears really need a big, physical receiver...

Iamcanadian
12-04-2008, 10:56 PM
Or if they blow out their knee in the rookie season and they can never play again. A college degree might be useful there.

I think I'd take the 3-5 million or more and just go back and finish my degree when I needed to. Only a complete fool would risk all that just to stay in school one more year.

etk
12-05-2008, 01:54 PM
eBrdA2Mon7A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8wPeK1qx2Y

DoWnThEfiElD
12-05-2008, 02:01 PM
browns shut down steelers defense right. thomas owns any steelers. right. if you say so. and i prefer the dorseyville express to bustland.

I just feel bad the public school system failed him so badly...

DeathbyStat
12-05-2008, 02:09 PM
Johnson

But someone will fall in love with him.

Against me better judgement I really like the guy. Just like I liked Gholston last year...probly a bad move on my part

Sniper
12-05-2008, 02:15 PM
Johnson

But someone will fall in love with him.

Against me better judgement I really like the guy. Just like I liked Gholston last year...probly a bad move on my part

Gholston was significantly more productive than Johnson though.

etk
12-05-2008, 02:25 PM
Gholston was significantly more productive than Johnson though.

But significantly less fluid an athlete. Johnson has way more potential as a pass rusher. Gholston is just a fast guy with a decent bull rush.

Bengals78
12-05-2008, 02:25 PM
I love the DB that very slowly dropped the man he was covering and jogged toward Smith so that he could arrive at the goal line just barely too late to attempt a tackle.

This makes me think. The Bears really need a big, physical receiver...

Where is IDD when you need him?

Halsey
12-05-2008, 02:53 PM
I've watched Michael Johnson a few times. Everytime I see him he makes plays one way or another. Maybe there are games when he dissapears, but the few times i've seen him that's not the case. I suspect people that talk about nothing but his 'production' are just looking at the sack number on a stat sheet.

Babylon
12-05-2008, 02:56 PM
I've watched Michael Johnson a few times. Everytime I see him he makes plays one way or another. Maybe there are games when he dissapears, but the few times i've seen him that's not the case. I suspect people that talk about nothing but his 'production' are just looking at the sack number on a stat sheet.


I couldn't care less about numbers, when i've seen Johnson play he's shown nothing. His appeal gets better in round 2 but anyone willing to gamble on him in round 1 better have a multi year contract.