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jetsfan0099
12-03-2008, 09:38 PM
Ok this topic was probably discussed, but I admit I am too lazy to go find it. So do you guys think Tim Tebow's game will translate to the NFL? I am stuck on this one, I am just not sure. I see him make some big time throws, but IDK. Spread offense QBs scare me, not that they can't work because some have. But sometimes they don't.

Race for the Heisman
12-03-2008, 09:42 PM
In a word, no. That's the general consensus, anyway. I think he has a shot. Yeah, his release is like molasses. No, he won't be able to run the same way, that part of his game will not translate fully. But can he succeed, sure, if he lands in the right situation, which is quite unlikely.

AkiliSmith
12-03-2008, 09:44 PM
Ok this topic was probably discussed, but I admit I am too lazy to go find it. So do you guys think Tim Tebow's game will translate to the NFL? I am stuck on this one, I am just not sure. I see him make some big time throws, but IDK. Spread offense QBs scare me, not that they can't work because some have. But sometimes they don't.
Not at all.

Spread offense, horrible mechanics, no footwork, has only worked out of a shotgun, etc.

giantsfan
12-03-2008, 09:47 PM
Not immediately. But if you're slow with him and work on his mechanics before even teaching him the playbook you could have a HoFer on your hands. That said he'll probably be forced to play to early because he's a gamer and won't so no coach i'm not ready yet and that'll ruin his development resulting in him become a failure b/c his coaches forced him on the field before working out his issues.

Zyro_1014
12-03-2008, 09:47 PM
Product of that florida offense and all of its weapons

jetsfan0099
12-03-2008, 09:57 PM
Product of that florida offense and all of its weapons

You say that but he was also the top rated QB in HS right? I remember watching the dude on ESPN when he was in HS. The guy has major talent, that can't be ignored. I think he would be a great player in any system in college. But in the NFL IDK.

giantsfan
12-03-2008, 10:02 PM
You say that but he was also the top rated QB in HS right? I remember watching the dude on ESPN when he was in HS. The guy has major talent, that can't be ignored. I think he would be a great player in any system in college. But in the NFL IDK.

His problems are his slow release due to his mechanics, his footwork and his ability to make NFL reads. If a team's patient with him those are things they can teach him/correct, but if a team rushes him in any system he'll faulter. He's a very hard working kid and very coachable, if a stable team with a vet QB grabs him to sit on the bench for two years he can be great.

sodar21
12-03-2008, 10:03 PM
Does he have a strong arm? It's a bit hard for me to judge a left handed QB.

jetsfan0099
12-03-2008, 10:06 PM
I would say yes, I've seen him make some real nice throws that involve arm strength.

I think QB is the hardest position to judge whether they turn out to be something or not. But basically Tim Tebow as a Lion would be a bust right?


Anyone know if he will enter the draft or is he going to stay. What pick would he be this year?

Race for the Heisman
12-03-2008, 10:06 PM
Does he have a strong arm? It's a bit hard for me to judge a left handed QB.

It's pretty good. Not fantastic, but not Chad Pennington. Maybe Kyle Orton?

Malaka
12-03-2008, 10:10 PM
It's pretty good. Not fantastic, but not Chad Pennington. Maybe Kyle Orton?

Deep ball wise Orton's arm is pretty bad, I think Tebow's arm is better than Orton's, he basically has a pretty average/above-average NFL arm, he can make the all the throws you need of him.

Zyro_1014
12-03-2008, 10:10 PM
You say that but he was also the top rated QB in HS right? I remember watching the dude on ESPN when he was in HS. The guy has major talent, that can't be ignored. I think he would be a great player in any system in college. But in the NFL IDK.

IN A SPREAD OFFENSE!

you cant do the stuff he does right now in the NFL. its not possible. he cant lower his shoulder and truck anyone anymore, he wont have all day to throw, he wont have all of the best athletes on the field with him. Hes got very little to no mechanics and works only out of the shotgun.

giantsfan
12-03-2008, 10:12 PM
Does he have a strong arm? It's a bit hard for me to judge a left handed QB.

He has a strong arm, he's not jay cutler or Jamarcus Russell but he can make all the throws.

I would say yes, I've seen him make some real nice throws that involve arm strength.

I think QB is the hardest position to judge whether they turn out to be something or not. But basically Tim Tebow as a Lion would be a bust right?

Anyone know if he will enter the draft or is he going to stay. What pick would he be this year?

If the Lions signed some old vet to be their punching bag for two seasons and brought in a competent coaching staff he coudl still be a success there, but not first overall. I think he's a guy who goes in the latter half of the first round or early second where a team doesn't feel forced to get some production for him and can be patient with his potential.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
12-03-2008, 10:24 PM
I can't remember the exact statistics, but something like only 30% of 1st round QB's succeed. He has just as much of a chance of succeeding as anyone else does. It's a wash after one's in the NFL because circumstances matter just as much as physical tools. No QB would be able to succeed on the Raiders or Lions now. So all of you guys anointing Tebow as a bust before he is even drafted in the NFL is ridiculous. There's no question he has talent, it seems like most of you guys just hate him because he plays for UF.

Sniper
12-04-2008, 12:29 PM
IN A SPREAD OFFENSE!

you cant do the stuff he does right now in the NFL. its not possible. he cant lower his shoulder and truck anyone anymore, he wont have all day to throw, he wont have all of the best athletes on the field with him. Hes got very little to no mechanics and works only out of the shotgun.

The '07 Pats worked out of (mainly) a spread offense. How'd they do?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-04-2008, 12:33 PM
Spread offenses work in the NFL if you have the personnel. If Tebow can become a good passer(I don't see why he couldn't), he could run a spread and add a new running wrinkle. Yes, he will be able to run in the pros. No, not as effectively as he does now. But if David Garrard can break a tackle and bust a big one, so can Tim Tebow.

I don't think he's a top 15 pick though, but if I had a solid veteran QB with no needs in the value I'm picking, I'd grab him.

Halsey
12-04-2008, 02:01 PM
I think some team with a late first round pick, like Tampa or Tennessee will fall in love with Tebow's physical talent, leadership skills, character, etc and take him as a developmental prospect. There's no hard wiring in his brain that prevents him from learning a pro style offense. Drew Brees ran the spread in college. Like Brees, it may take Tebow a few years to develop into a quality NFL starter, but the rewards could be huge.

CashmoneyDrew
12-04-2008, 02:20 PM
I think some team with a late first round pick, like Tampa or Tennessee will fall in love with Tebow's physical talent, leadership skills, character, etc and take him as a developmental prospect. There's no hard wiring in his brain that prevents him from learning a pro style offense. Drew Brees ran the spread in college. Like Brees, it may take Tebow a few years to develop into a quality NFL starter, but the rewards could be huge.

Tim Tebow would never be loved in Tennessee.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-04-2008, 02:35 PM
Not to mention, Tennessee already has their own developmental spread shotgun QB...

Menardo75
12-04-2008, 03:01 PM
Watching him play he really has a long ways to go as a QB. He will have to sit an adjust to a pro style offense much different then the quick read system he is in right now. His footwork is not very good and he relys on his athletic ability too much. He is really hard to judge, but I say no.

bored of education
12-04-2008, 03:03 PM
sucks
/thread

Chris64
12-04-2008, 03:04 PM
Spread offense Qbs always scare me because of the differences in the offensive structure compared to the NFL. To me he is a project, that you have to bring him along slowly. Probably only sees action at QB in a speciality package in his first years. I think watching the Alabama game will answer alot because he will see alot of combination coverages and disguised blitzes that a Qb will see in the NFL. Watch and see if he can make the right read or if he can get to his second read fast enough against zone blitz schemes, a problem that many spread Qbs have had in the pros (Couch, Smith, Young, etc). Overall, I think because of production and his name, he will be a mid first- early second round pick.

Zyro_1014
12-04-2008, 03:04 PM
The '07 Pats worked out of (mainly) a spread offense. How'd they do?

came up a little short ;)

Halsey
12-04-2008, 03:12 PM
Tim Tebow would never be loved in Tennessee.
Many Atlanta fans were saying that about Matt Ryan a year ago.

CashmoneyDrew
12-04-2008, 03:14 PM
Many Atlanta fans were saying that about Matt Ryan a year ago.

For very different reasons...

Menardo75
12-04-2008, 03:15 PM
Because Matt Ryan and Tim Tebow are so similar........

Halsey
12-04-2008, 03:17 PM
Not to mention, Tennessee already has their own developmental spread shotgun QB...

QB is important enough that NFL teams will develop more than one to help ensure they have a guy for the future. Young hasn't exactly proven himself to be the long term answer.

Halsey
12-04-2008, 03:19 PM
For very different reasons...
Why are they so different. Close minded fans who think they know what a QB will be in the NFL before he ever even gets drafted. They got ignored by the decision makers.

Halsey
12-04-2008, 03:20 PM
Because Matt Ryan and Tim Tebow are so similar........

How similar they are isn't really the point. There's no one right way to be an NFL QB.

Menardo75
12-04-2008, 03:24 PM
How similar they are isn't really the point. There's no one right way to be an NFL QB.

What is your arguement then, because it seems like you are trying to compare Tebow and Ryan which is ridiculous.

CashmoneyDrew
12-04-2008, 03:25 PM
Why are they so different. Close minded fans who think they know what a QB will be in the NFL before he ever even gets drafted. They got ignored by the decision makers.

The joke obviously went over your head.

bored of education
12-04-2008, 03:30 PM
He doesnt realize that Tebow is perceived the biggest douche ever and Matt Ryan is perceived as a stand up guy.

Wow Tebow does surgeries on rats in Africa big deal..go Beat Ole Miss!

Sniper
12-04-2008, 03:36 PM
The joke obviously went over your head.

Did you hear that rumor spreading around that the Tennessee and Florida are big rivals and that they absolutely loathe each other?

Bruce Banner
12-04-2008, 03:43 PM
sucks
/thread

++. Kiper has him as a TE.
lol

sbh15
12-04-2008, 04:02 PM
People are so quick to write, yet as we've seen if you get some random guy who has an NFL caliber arm and sit him for 3 or 4 years while he learns behind someone (Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Matt Cassell, and more) he can succeed. If he is expected to be this year's Matt Ryan? He's got less than an ice cube's chance in hell. If he falls into a situation ala Romo or Brady? I wouldn't bet against it.

wicket
12-04-2008, 04:04 PM
I'm calling carolina in the second, I've been thinking about it and Delhomme has about 2 years in him and that could about be the time TT needs to become NFL ready. Same could hold tru for Tampa. But another team that came to my mind were the colts, manning hasnt got eternal youth and they have sort of a dependance on qb play.

Zyro_1014
12-04-2008, 04:28 PM
People are so quick to write, yet as we've seen if you get some random guy who has an NFL caliber arm and sit him for 3 or 4 years while he learns behind someone (Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Matt Cassell, and more) he can succeed. If he is expected to be this year's Matt Ryan? He's got less than an ice cube's chance in hell. If he falls into a situation ala Romo or Brady? I wouldn't bet against it.

Maybe if he gets drafted the cowboys or the Patriots...

Romo and Tebow are both products of the people around them.

bored of education
12-04-2008, 04:40 PM
Maybe if he gets drafted the cowboys or the Patriots...

Romo and Tebow are both products of the people around them.

How'd the 'Boys do while Romo was gone?

Zyro_1014
12-04-2008, 04:59 PM
How'd the 'Boys do while Romo was gone?

Lets see, well they had Brad Johnson which doesnt help. If you watched the games you could tell they couldve done alot of things that would help them win. like....

Giving Marion Barber more than 19 carries a game. why are you letting Brad Johnson throw it 35+ times a game?? cmon.

Don Vito
12-04-2008, 05:20 PM
Wow Tebow does surgeries on rats in Africa big deal..go Beat Ole Miss!

Hey don't hate!

It is undeniable that Tebow is a great college player in an offense that is tailor-made for what his abilities, but as everyone is saying he may not translate well to the pro game. Someone will definitely give him a shot and I think it will be at QB. He definitely has a lot of physical skill and will be a project for some team.

RaiderNation
12-04-2008, 05:31 PM
I can see him being a nice QB if he sits a year or so behind a good vet QB. If he starts from day 1 he will have an Alex Smith like career

Zyro_1014
12-04-2008, 05:34 PM
Alex Smith is 2 times the QB that Tebow is and look at his career. Products of the same system in college and just because Tebow is on a better team hes better? gimme a break.

giantsfan
12-04-2008, 05:36 PM
Alex Smith is 2 times the QB that Tebow is and look at his career. Products of the same system in college and just because Tebow is on a better team hes better? gimme a break.

Just curious what makes you think that other than that Tebow is also a better runner?

Halsey
12-04-2008, 05:42 PM
What is your arguement then, because it seems like you are trying to compare Tebow and Ryan which is ridiculous.

I compared what Voodoomonkey said to what many Atlanta fans were saying about Matt Ryan a year ago.

CashmoneyDrew
12-04-2008, 05:51 PM
I compared what Voodoomonkey said to what many Atlanta fans were saying about Matt Ryan a year ago.

Atlanta fans didn't want Ryan because they thought he'd be a bust or wasn't great value at the three pick. I said Titans fans would never love Tebow because he's a Florida Gator and the Titans are in Vol country. (Yes Nashville is Vol country) It was just a joke obviously.

Sniper
12-04-2008, 06:04 PM
Atlanta fans didn't want Ryan because they thought he'd be a bust or wasn't great value at the three pick. I said Titans fans would never love Tebow because he's a Florida Gator and the Titans are in Vol country. (Yes Nashville is Vol country) It was just a joke obviously.

Did you hear that rumor spreading around that the Tennessee and Florida are big rivals and that they absolutely loathe each other?

So I assume you did hear the rumor? :D

CashmoneyDrew
12-04-2008, 06:12 PM
So I assume you did hear the rumor? :D

Oh, I lived it!

sbh15
12-04-2008, 06:59 PM
Lets see, well they had Brad Johnson which doesnt help. If you watched the games you could tell they couldve done alot of things that would help them win. like....

Giving Marion Barber more than 19 carries a game. why are you letting Brad Johnson throw it 35+ times a game?? cmon.

Johnson won a Super Bowl in Tampa Bay with less than he had in Dallas.

Romo is not a product of what's around him, what's around him appears to be the product of him at this point. Look at T.O. and Witten with Johnson as QB. They were MIA.

Let me just repeat that I think Tebow can be a good+ quarterback IF and ONLY IF he gets between 2-4 years of learning NFL mechanics and an NFL offense on the bench. Otherwise he'll be looked at as a bust and moved to FB or TE.

DoWnThEfiElD
12-04-2008, 07:17 PM
Alex Smith is 2 times the QB that Tebow is and look at his career. Products of the same system in college and just because Tebow is on a better team hes better? gimme a break.

Are you kidding? Alex Smith is not on Tebow's level... Tebow has been playing way better competition and been doing better than Smith.

Zyro_1014
12-04-2008, 08:20 PM
Are you kidding? Alex Smith is not on Tebow's level... Tebow has been playing way better competition and been doing better than Smith.

Hes also had a better supporting cast....

To say that Tebow is a better prospect than Smith was is ridiculous. At least Alex looks like he should be throwing a football. Alex has good technique. It takes Tebow about a year to finally get rid of the ball when he decides to throw it.

P-L
12-04-2008, 08:34 PM
Tebow may be a far superior college player, but Alex Smith is probably the superior pro prospect.

I don't see an offense in the NFL that Tebow could fit into right now. I think if some team really wanted to build an offense around him, it could be done. I just don't think he can succeed in a traditional pro style offense.

Zyro_1014
12-04-2008, 08:40 PM
Tebow may be a far superior college player, but Alex Smith is probably the superior pro prospect.

I don't see an offense in the NFL that Tebow could fit into right now. I think if some team really wanted to build an offense around him, it could be done. I just don't think he can succeed in a traditional pro style offense.

THANK YOU! :)

DoWnThEfiElD
12-04-2008, 08:53 PM
I just see Tebow being adapt and be coached into any offense. I really think he can be a drop back passer.

BBIB
12-05-2008, 09:20 PM
Tebow may be a far superior college player, but Alex Smith is probably the superior pro prospect.

I don't see an offense in the NFL that Tebow could fit into right now. I think if some team really wanted to build an offense around him, it could be done. I just don't think he can succeed in a traditional pro style offense.


Could you please explain why Alex Smith was a better prospect considering that Tebow is physically superior, superior production wise, and plays in a superior conference?

Race for the Heisman
12-05-2008, 09:27 PM
I just gotta say, I had not seen Tebow's press conference after the Ole Miss loss, but after seeing that, I'd be more than willing the spend a late first on him like some have been saying. A guy with that kind of emotional fire, I have to believe that he'll do anything within the rules to ensure that his team wins, and with a guy with as much raw ability as Tebow, I just can't being myself to bet against him unless he's a top 10 pick or so and the situation is just too much.

619
12-05-2008, 09:29 PM
I honestly don't think any team will touch Tebow in the first round. It's obvious he's a project QB and not many teams will want to waste time developing a QB that could possibly bolt three years down the road anyways.

In saying that, I'm one of those believers in a position change whether that be FB, TE, LB or S I do not know. There is room for him in the league however it's just not at his conventional position. If you wanted to compare this sticky situation to another pro prospect it would be fair to start off with Vince Young who I felt similarly about two years back.

BBIB
12-05-2008, 09:35 PM
I just gotta say, I had not seen Tebow's press conference after the Ole Miss loss, but after seeing that, I'd be more than willing the spend a late first on him like some have been saying. A guy with that kind of emotional fire, I have to believe that he'll do anything within the rules to ensure that his team wins, and with a guy with as much raw ability as Tebow, I just can't being myself to bet against him unless he's a top 10 pick or so and the situation is just too much.

Tebow has the physical tools and the work ethic to be an outstanding pro QB.

Just like every QB he just needs the right combo of coaching and cast around him to be productive.

The idea that he's doomed to fail because of the system he's in, Im not buying one bit

Shane P. Hallam
12-05-2008, 09:37 PM
Could you please explain why Alex Smith was a better prospect considering that Tebow is physically superior, superior production wise, and plays in a superior conference?

Because Alex Smith was more pro ready? He had better accuracy, better throwing power, and essentially had the attributes that translate well to the pro game.

BBIB
12-06-2008, 09:25 AM
Because Alex Smith was more pro ready? He had better accuracy, better throwing power, and essentially had the attributes that translate well to the pro game.

More pro ready?

What was it that did it for you the whopping 22 starts he had as a starter?

Or was it the fact that he played in the Mountain West Conference?

Pretty much every statement you made is a complete joke including the ridiculous claim that Alex Smith has a better arm than Tebow.

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2008, 12:58 PM
More pro ready?

What was it that did it for you the whopping 22 starts he had as a starter?

Or was it the fact that he played in the Mountain West Conference?

Pretty much every statement you made is a complete joke including the ridiculous claim that Alex Smith has a better arm than Tebow.

More starts doesn't always equal more pro ready. Adrian Peterson was probably more pro ready coming out of high school then most sophomore or junior running backs in college football.

SenorGato
12-06-2008, 01:35 PM
Could you please explain why Alex Smith was a better prospect considering that Tebow is physically superior, superior production wise, and plays in a superior conference?

Thats easy...Smith didn't and wouldn't have to be completely overhauled to play in the NFL. Things like mechanics and accuracy are things a first round prospects should have already...

I'll never get the Tebow hype. He's a nice talent and all...but 1. being physically talented isn't anything special in the NFL. The best guys have translated their skills to the NFL game, and Tebow is still a big question mark in that area. 2. College production from QB's should be given a little bit more context than "it was good." It's not exactly like Tebow is in a system that forces the QB to make passing plays...just complete passes to playmakers in open space...the difference there is huge.

Sniper
12-06-2008, 01:50 PM
More starts doesn't always equal more pro ready. Adrian Peterson was probably more pro ready coming out of high school then most sophomore or junior running backs in college football.

With quarterbacks, more starts usually tends to equal better pro potential.

wicket
12-06-2008, 01:53 PM
Thats easy...Smith didn't and wouldn't have to be completely overhauled to play in the NFL. Things like mechanics and accuracy are things a first round prospects should have already...

I'll never get the Tebow hype. He's a nice talent and all...but 1. being physically talented isn't anything special in the NFL. The best guys have translated their skills to the NFL game, and Tebow is still a big question mark in that area. 2. College production from QB's should be given a little bit more context than "it was good." It's not exactly like Tebow is in a system that forces the QB to make passing plays...just complete passes to playmakers in open space...the difference there is huge.

That may be a fair comment about this season but last season he needed to make plays all over the field and well he got a heisman to show for it. This year his offensive line and supporting cast is such that his numbers actually go down. If they made the playcalling to achieve it tebow could have had 60 tds on his record this season easily but the amount of pitches he has made for production is enormous, they could have run stuff like screens as well which would go on his production but with the florida backfield they just dont have to play that way.

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2008, 01:57 PM
With quarterbacks, more starts usually tends to equal better pro potential.

Yeah usually, but Tebow is one of those exceptions. I think it's safe to say with fewer starts, Mark Sanchez is way more pro ready than Tebow.

Sniper
12-06-2008, 02:33 PM
Yeah usually, but Tebow is one of those exceptions. I think it's safe to say with fewer starts, Mark Sanchez is way more pro ready than Tebow.

Let me clear up what I said. I ****** up and said potential. QBs who have the most starts, as a general rule, perform better in the pros.

Because of that, we won't know who is better until they both reach the pros and play.

BBIB
12-06-2008, 05:01 PM
Yeah usually, but Tebow is one of those exceptions. I think it's safe to say with fewer starts, Mark Sanchez is way more pro ready than Tebow.

How the hell is it safe to say that given the incredible high rate of failure with QBs with as few starts as Sanchez?

BBIB
12-06-2008, 05:03 PM
Thats easy...Smith didn't and wouldn't have to be completely overhauled to play in the NFL. Things like mechanics and accuracy are things a first round prospects should have already...

I'll never get the Tebow hype. He's a nice talent and all...but 1. being physically talented isn't anything special in the NFL. The best guys have translated their skills to the NFL game, and Tebow is still a big question mark in that area. 2. College production from QB's should be given a little bit more context than "it was good." It's not exactly like Tebow is in a system that forces the QB to make passing plays...just complete passes to playmakers in open space...the difference there is huge.

One can argue mechanics (never seen any prospect who didn't need to work on them) but for people to continue to say stuff like Tebow doesn't have arm strength or accuracy is ridiculous.

That's just plain ignorance because Tebow has a whole lot of both. He is constantly hitting his receivers in stride on intermediate and deep patterns.

P-L
12-06-2008, 05:11 PM
Could you please explain why Alex Smith was a better prospect considering that Tebow is physically superior, superior production wise, and plays in a superior conference?
Alex Smith doesn't have awful mechanics and he has a stronger arm. He also didn't throw the ball at his receivers' feet 5-10 time per game.

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2008, 05:12 PM
How the hell is it safe to say that given the incredible high rate of failure with QBs with as few starts as Sanchez?

Pro-style offense, better mechanics, not nearly as much of a project.

One can argue mechanics (never seen any prospect who didn't need to work on them) but for people to continue to say stuff like Tebow doesn't have arm strength or accuracy is ridiculous.

That's just plain ignorance because Tebow has a whole lot of both. He is constantly hitting his receivers in stride on intermediate and deep patterns.

I think Tebow has pretty good arm strength but he still throws some marshmallows as well and he needs to work on that. Also, Tebow has decent accuracy, but it's not like he's making tough, NFL type throws most of the time. With the system he's in, his WR's are running pretty open most of the time.

Sniper
12-06-2008, 05:12 PM
He also didn't throw the ball at his receivers' feet 5-10 time per game.

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/red-cares-donovan-mcnabb-400a120706.jpg

Is that a problem?

Tampa 2 4 life
12-06-2008, 05:24 PM
He's a fat Matt grothe in a gimmick offense.

djp
12-06-2008, 05:26 PM
Tebow is the absolute perfect system for his skills. I give all the credit to Urban Meyer in the world, he's created such an efficient offense for Tebow.

I wonder if he tries to change it up once Brantley takes over.

That said, Tebow is going to be a complete failure in the NFL without some major mechanical overhaul in his delivery and an offense where he can make the easy throw.

Every time he hops when he throws, he shorthops his receiver. NFL scouts absolutely HATE that.

Sniper
12-06-2008, 05:27 PM
He's a fat Matt grothe in a gimmick offense.

Since when is Tebow fat?

Bruce Banner
12-06-2008, 05:30 PM
Aaron Miles
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/40/408123m.jpg

Fat Miles
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/52/527364m.jpg

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2008, 05:30 PM
Tebow is jacked.

Bruce Banner
12-06-2008, 05:36 PM
Tebow=small

want proof?

http://www.tebowner.com/images/fan12.jpg

Halsey
12-06-2008, 05:40 PM
Since when is Tebow fat?
That's the latest criticism that the less educated fans on these boards pull from their rear. Any QB with a sturdy, muscular frame is now 'fat'. Some bozo spewed the same nonsense about Stafford recently. Think of it as those fans letting you know that they don't know what they're talking about.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/488154488_8caf4dd3ba_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2742096056_a4ed3484b8_m.jpg

Sniper
12-06-2008, 05:40 PM
That's the latest criticism that the less educated fans on these boards pull from their rear. Any QB with a sturdy, muscular frame is now 'fat'. Some bozo spewed the same nonsense about Stafford recently. Think of it as those fans letting you know that they don't know what they're talking about.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/209/488154488_8caf4dd3ba_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2742096056_a4ed3484b8_m.jpg

Well, Stafford is a little chunky. But Tebow is a bossman.

djp
12-06-2008, 05:41 PM
Tebow is ripped fellas. He;'s not fat.

keylime_5
12-06-2008, 05:44 PM
Tim Tebow and Tyler Hansborough can join the "giant guys who look like 12 year olds in the face (and act like total ****)" club.

Sniper
12-06-2008, 05:44 PM
Tim Tebow and Tyler Hansborough can join the "giant guys who look like 12 year olds in the face (and act like total ****)" club.

...and are ******* awesome college players.

Halsey
12-06-2008, 05:47 PM
Well, Stafford is a little chunky. But Tebow is a bossman.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1413/1480819044_aff70b6ca2_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3057/2824329220_733b43911d_m.jpg
Yeah, Stafford's real fat...

Todd Bertuzzi
12-06-2008, 05:47 PM
Could a fat guy land a catch like this....?
http://thesportsculture.com/wp-content/gallery/tebow/959tebowspiece678wj4.jpg

Sniper
12-06-2008, 05:48 PM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1413/1480819044_aff70b6ca2_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3057/2824329220_733b43911d_m.jpg
Yeah, Stafford's real fat...

Someone had a pic of Stafford jumping in a pool, he was a real chunkster. I guess he's leaned down.

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2008, 05:48 PM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1413/1480819044_aff70b6ca2_m.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3057/2824329220_733b43911d_m.jpg
Yeah, Stafford's real fat...

Those pictures are so small, that they aren't really helping you prove your point.

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2008, 05:49 PM
Could a fat guy land a catch like this....?
http://thesportsculture.com/wp-content/gallery/tebow/959tebowspiece678wj4.jpg

Isn't that Lucy Pinder? If it is, that's not the girl in the infamous pic with Tebow.

Halsey
12-06-2008, 05:49 PM
Someone had a pic of Stafford jumping in a pool, he was a real chunkster. I guess he's leaned down.

Unless some NFL team is planning on getting into a time machine and drafting the Stafford of 2 year ago, I don't think it's a problem that he was a little chubby at one time.

hockey619
12-06-2008, 05:50 PM
Tebow is far from fat. He is solid muscle no doubt.

And Halsey, that was me that spewed that nonsense about Stafford. He used to have a soft core and it worried me. I had stated that he looked like he lost some weight but I wasnt really sure.

He is a little heavy as far as bad weight, but I will certainly admit that I was proven clearly wrong with a photo that showed has gotten himself into much better shape and that my worry is a moot point now.

Yeah it was my photo of him jumping into a pool right before his Sophmore year. Then someone showed a recent one of him in a under armor shirt and proved that he is in better shape.

Bruce Banner
12-06-2008, 05:51 PM
some of you people thought we were serious?

wow

Todd Bertuzzi
12-06-2008, 05:52 PM
Isn't that Lucy Pinder? If it is, that's not the girl in the infamous pic with Tebow.
Ya, but they look very similar so you get the point.

Edit: Actually I'm not sure who that is, but whoever it is she is hot:)

Halsey
12-06-2008, 05:54 PM
Those pictures are so small, that they aren't really helping you prove your point.

Here's another picture and a link of it blown up. If you can't see that, you need glasses.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/2776676746_a3205273fb_m.jpg

http://flickr.com/photos/dshirey/2776676746/

fenikz
12-06-2008, 06:26 PM
Could a fat guy land a catch like this....?
http://thesportsculture.com/wp-content/gallery/tebow/959tebowspiece678wj4.jpg

That's Lucy Pinder, Tebow has no shot at that

BBIB
12-06-2008, 06:33 PM
I think Tebow has pretty good arm strength but he still throws some marshmallows as well and he needs to work on that. Also, Tebow has decent accuracy, but it's not like he's making tough, NFL type throws most of the time. With the system he's in, his WR's are running pretty open most of the time.


Most of the time he's hitting those open WRs in perfect stride. It's not like they have to make incredible Calvin Johnson/Julio Jones circus catches

BBIB
12-06-2008, 06:36 PM
Pro-style offense, better mechanics, not nearly as much of a project.

.

YEah how have those recent pro style QBs out of USC worked out in Booty and Leinart?

If those guys didn't make it you think a 1 year starter is a sure thing ha

hockey619
12-06-2008, 06:38 PM
Tebow looked sick tonight. My main criticism of him has been his accuracy (ball placement on the recievers), but he looked good tonight, only missing one where he really missed an open guy because he threw it behind him. Threw the ball hard and made good decisions about who to throw to. He also looked to one side of the field and made reads/looked guys off.

Only thing that I dont like is the release, which is inconsistent, sometimes slow windup, and sometimes just a little slow on the release. Hed need to sit for a bit to learn to dropback and deal with NFL passing windows but I think he can do it in the right situation.

Cigaro
12-06-2008, 06:39 PM
Saw the perfect signs of his inability to make his reads. I know he had a good day, but a lot of times I saw him, before he'd take off and run, look at one side of the field, but not the other where he some speedster wide open in the flats.

He will need a lot of coaching to be successful in the NFL, so it's in his best interests to start as early as possible and come out this year.

hockey619
12-06-2008, 06:44 PM
There were a couple that I saw where he looked to one side then the other then threw. Its hard for us to know because its possible the coaches said to look at this guy and if it isnt there then just go, which is different from him making that decision.

If hes only executing the plays the way he was told to, then we really have no way of knowing whether or not he can make reads in the pro sense until he is given the chance. All systems make reads differently so its really a question of whether or not he can make the reads hes asked to in whatever system he ends up in and if he can make them fast enough.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 06:48 PM
I keep trying to watch Tebow and pick out something, anything, that a NFL quarterback coach can work with, and I have a hard time seeing it. First and foremost, an NFL quarterback needs to be able to throw the ball like a pro, and Tebow just can't. Period.

Can he completely remake his throwing mechanics? Maybe, but trying to do that tends to mess with quarterbacks way more than it helps them. If you draft this kid, you better have a backup plan for him, because I don't see an NFL quarterback when I watch him.

Bruce Banner
12-06-2008, 06:49 PM
where in the world is bf51?

SchizophrenicBatman
12-06-2008, 07:14 PM
You know, I thought Tebow would be better off staying in college all four years but after watching that game there's really no point for him to stay. He doesn't run a single NFL read in that offense. His arm needs some work too. It almost seems like it's gotten worse from last year to me.

BBIB
12-06-2008, 07:25 PM
Saw the perfect signs of his inability to make his reads. I know he had a good day, but a lot of times I saw him, before he'd take off and run, look at one side of the field, but not the other where he some speedster wide open in the flats.

He will need a lot of coaching to be successful in the NFL, so it's in his best interests to start as early as possible and come out this year.

THere was only one time where it was pointed out where he really missed a read and it would have had to be a perfect throw. TEbow obviously had to do more running to make up for the loss of Harvin.

Funny because you mention the flats because one of the most impressive things Tebow did today was going through all of his progression on one play to hit David Nelson in the flats.

And if you want to say a guy isn't ready because of a couple missed reads then Stafford isn't ready either because he does that every single game.

BBIB
12-06-2008, 07:27 PM
You know, I thought Tebow would be better off staying in college all four years but after watching that game there's really no point for him to stay. He doesn't run a single NFL read in that offense. His arm needs some work too. It almost seems like it's gotten worse from last year to me.

What do you define as NFL read? Drop back passing and going through progressions? Of course they don't do that at UF. That's the point of the offense.

But just playing under center doesn't make one a pro prospect. They have to have the physical tools. And just not playing in one doesn't exempt one from being a pro prospect if they have the physical tools.

Tebow constantly puts the ball where only his receivers can catch it. He even threaded the needle today which is something some claim he couldn't do and a few times he did it under durress correctly reading the blitz and feeling the pressure.

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2008, 07:32 PM
YEah how have those recent pro style QBs out of USC worked out in Booty and Leinart?

If those guys didn't make it you think a 1 year starter is a sure thing ha

Yeah, and Rex Grossman, Chris Leak, Jessie Palmer, and Danny Wuerrfel have been awesome in the pros too. :rolleyes:

Cigaro
12-06-2008, 07:39 PM
THere was only one time where it was pointed out where he really missed a read and it would have had to be a perfect throw. TEbow obviously had to do more running to make up for the loss of Harvin.

Maybe because CBS doesn't believe breaking down every play to see if he missed receivers in the flats provides the best talking points? I saw it more than once. I only watched portions of the games, and saw it occur three or four times.

And if you want to say a guy isn't ready because of a couple missed reads then Stafford isn't ready either because he does that every single game.

Yes but Stafford has less of a mountain to climb. For Stafford to be successful in the NFL, he has to make better reads. For Tebow, he has to make better reads, learn a new offense, drop his fullback mentality, completely rework his footwork, and fix his release. Basically take everything that has made him successful the past seven years, dump it out, and start all over. Few can do that.

Iamcanadian
12-06-2008, 11:59 PM
I love him as long as he passes muster for his arm strength by pro scouts. Yes, he plays in a non pro system but I love his mental toughness. This guy backs down from nobody and is a tremendous leader. I think a lot of pro teams will fall in love with this guy once he gets to the post season.
As I said if his arm passes muster from pro scouts, he go high round 1 IMO, if his arm is below average then we have a completely different story.

bored of education
12-07-2008, 12:02 AM
still sucks
/thread, again

Race for the Heisman
12-07-2008, 12:04 AM
still sucks
/thread, again

No. Seriously, I'm with Iamcandian.

sbh15
12-07-2008, 12:09 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

3-4 years of teaching under a competent offensive coordinator (a guy who will stay with him for those 3-4 years) and he can be just as good as a guy who fell into the same situation. A Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady style situation (not saying he'll be as good as Brady, but the point remains). He has the arm and the physical tools. Fix the release and have someone teach him how to make the reads and take snaps under center, and he'll be fine.

I've also said if he's expected to be Matt Ryan, he's ******.

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 12:10 AM
still sucks
/thread, again

Sums it up.

sbh15
12-07-2008, 12:11 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

3-4 years of teaching under a competent offensive coordinator (a guy who will stay with him for those 3-4 years) and he can be just as good as a guy who fell into the same situation. A Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady style situation (not saying he'll be as good as Brady, but the point remains). He has the arm and the physical tools. Fix the release and have someone teach him how to make the reads and take snaps under center, and he'll be fine.

I've also said if he's expected to be Matt Ryan, he's ******.

Of course nobody will use a high pick on a project like this, so the problem will really come in that if he's drafted high, a team won't wait 3-4 years, and they'll lose patience with him at QB. He can make it, but he's probably on the outside looking in.

bored of education
12-07-2008, 12:12 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

3-4 years of teaching under a competent offensive coordinator (a guy who will stay with him for those 3-4 years) and he can be just as good as a guy who fell into the same situation. A Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady style situation (not saying he'll be as good as Brady, but the point remains). He has the arm and the physical tools. Fix the release and have someone teach him how to make the reads and take snaps under center, and he'll be fine.

I've also said if he's expected to be Matt Ryan, he's ******.
You can say that about Jim Abbott being a QB.

sbh15
12-07-2008, 12:15 AM
You can say that about Jim Abbott being a QB.

"Insert random ass name here" does not have the passion or drive of Tim Tebow or the ability as an athlete.

bored of education
12-07-2008, 12:16 AM
"Insert random ass name here" does not have the passion or drive of Tim Tebow or the ability as an athlete.

"Insert random name here" if given 3-4 years behind good coaching coulod become a very good starter in the NFL.

Race for the Heisman
12-07-2008, 12:22 AM
"Insert random name here" if given 3-4 years behind good coaching coulod become a very good starter in the NFL.

Reggie Ball FTL.

sbh15
12-07-2008, 12:28 AM
"Insert random name here" if given 3-4 years behind good coaching coulod become a very good starter in the NFL.

So why is everyone so quick to discount Tebow as an NFL QB? My only guess would be that he shouldn't be considered a high draft pick if he is expected to be a QB.

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 12:32 AM
"Insert random name here" if given 3-4 years behind good coaching coulod become a very good starter in the NFL.

zinged that ************

BigBanger
12-07-2008, 12:52 AM
So why is everyone so quick to discount Tebow as an NFL QB? My only guess would be that he shouldn't be considered a high draft pick if he is expected to be a QB.
You hit the nail on the head. He's simply underdeveloped (Because of Myers' system), and it's going to take time for him to adapt to an NFL style offense (Kind of like Vince Young). I'd lean towards four years just to be on the safe side, but he certainly has the ability of a starting NFL QB. I don't think he'll be a great QB, but if he has the talent around him and the coaching staff to get to a Super Bowl, then he could win a Super Bowl. That's a lot of "ifs" though. He could also never see the field... at any position.

The reason why you draft Stafford with the first pick and take Tebow in round 3 is due to their development and the kind of reads and throws both are making at this point in their careers. Stafford can start for a franchise from Day 1. Tebow shouldn't be asked to start until his third year since he rarely makes NFL caliber reads. The good thing I'm seeing with Tebow is him quickly coming off his first read if it isn't there and going to his second option, but he hardly ever goes to a third option. Stafford does that and thats why he'll be the first player taken.

giantsfan
12-07-2008, 01:46 AM
I think Tebow can be starting by his third year with good coaching, he puts in the work and has a good feel for throwing the ball. Won't really start to excell until years 4 and 5 though. With that I think his potential lands him at the end of round one or in the middle of round two to a team willing to wait on that potential at such a critical position.

jayceheathman
12-07-2008, 03:28 AM
Maybe because CBS doesn't believe breaking down every play to see if he missed receivers in the flats provides the best talking points? I saw it more than once. I only watched portions of the games, and saw it occur three or four times.



Yes but Stafford has less of a mountain to climb. For Stafford to be successful in the NFL, he has to make better reads. For Tebow, he has to make better reads, learn a new offense, drop his fullback mentality, completely rework his footwork, and fix his release. Basically take everything that has made him successful the past seven years, dump it out, and start all over. Few can do that.

Well, you dont change what works. He will have to learn a new offense but so will Stafford. Georgia's is more pro style so obviously Tebow will have more to learn. I dont see why you would go away from his fullback mentality all around. If he is your QB then obviously you wont want him running but if its 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1 then he will have an easier time getting that first down. Tebow leads his team while Stafford seems to give up. Georgia is a better team than Georgia Tech and Stafford also has a really talented WR in AJ Greene and one of the top RB's in the nation but they cant live up to their potential. Stafford can barely lead his team to victory over Kentucky while Tebow destroyed that same team by 60. You get Georgia down and they give up. I have seen Stafford throw some stupid passes but he seems to get out of it by people saying he has a bad OL. You see Tebow scrambling and keeping his eyes down field to try and see if someone is open. You also saw that with Bradford as well. Personally, if I had the #1 pick I would take Bradford over Stafford all day.

wicket
12-07-2008, 03:42 AM
Dude is growing on me, now he only needs to quit thanking god for succesfully clipping his toenails and I might even like him. No seriously the dude is a gamer, ton of heart, does everything he knows to win games. Yes he is gonna need some work but he does have something special about him. I honoustly couldnt think of a player with a better work ethic or how a better work ethic would look like to be honoust. Now he just has to drop the perfect character act cause it is kinda lame.

Iamcanadian
12-07-2008, 08:55 AM
First, I doubt he declares unless he gets a 1st round rating from the NFL Advisory Committee and yes, I'd say his arm strength will be the deciding factor on how high he goes. If he comes into the combine and impresses scouts with his arm strength the system he plays in won't hold him back one iota. The system didn't stop NFL teams from drafting Alex Smith and it won't stop another team from drafting him high if he has the arm strength because he has the mental toughness and appears to be a great leader, and is a winner, 3 qualities that pro teams love.
People seem to think that college QB's don't have to adjust to pro ball if they play in a throwing system that at least resembles a pro offense. This is far from true, the adjustment is huge for them as well but you cannot teach mental toughness and leadership and Tebow has those. I'm just not sure how good his arm strength is but IMO, that is all that can hold him back.
I could raise serious questions about Bradshaw as an example of a player who could have a high bust factor even though it appears he will be a very high pick if he declares. I like him but there are questions namely how well he will adjust to not having all day to find an open receiver. In college, only Texas challenged him with a pass rush this season and he lost that game, in the pros he is going to see a much stronger pass rush and nobody knows how well he'll adjust to it. Do teams drop him because he has all day to throw the ball behind Oklahoma's OL or do they judge him on his talents, hope they understand his makeup and pray he will adjust to a completely different situation once he gets to pro ball.
I think Tebow can be a very productive pro within 2 years. He reminds me of Roethlisberger and I think he can be that type of player.
I see him sitting for 1 year and starting in year 2 and reaching impact heights in season 3 just like so many other 1st round QB's.
The only question mark in my mind is how good is his arm strength. It is extremely hard to gauge on TV but if it is up to snuff, I won't be at all shocked if he goes around where Rothlisbergher went in the draft or even higher. His pluses way outweigh any concerns and most pro teams won't care that he plays in a strange system as long as his arm strength is sound. People are completely overlooking the advantages of playing in Meyer's system. He got to develop his mobility, he had to learn how to be very desceptive in his ball fakes whether handing off or holding on to the ball, and he will always be very effective taking off with the ball if the opportunity presents itself. If he shows in the post season that he has real arm strength and football intellegence, he'll be a fast riser on draft boards and could even see serious top 10 consideration. If it turns out that his arm strength isn't up to snuff well then the picture could change dramatically sending him to round 3.

P-L
12-07-2008, 09:52 AM
I dont see why you would go away from his fullback mentality all around. If he is your QB then obviously you wont want him running but if its 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1 then he will have an easier time getting that first down.
If Tebow runs in the pros like he does in college he isn't going to last very long. Tebow has taken some brutal shots over these past two years and in the NFL defenders are bigger, faster, stronger, and hit harder. His career is going to be cut in half if he continues to throw his body up the middle like he does.

Tebow leads his team while Stafford seems to give up. Georgia is a better team than Georgia Tech and Stafford also has a really talented WR in AJ Greene and one of the top RB's in the nation but they cant live up to their potential. Stafford can barely lead his team to victory over Kentucky while Tebow destroyed that same team by 60.You clearly are biased against Georgia and/or Stafford, so I don't know if it's worth arguing, but here goes. Florida has a MUCH better defense than Georgia does. Stafford played lights out and dominated Kentucky and Georgia Tech. Stafford threw for 400 yards and 5 TD. But I guess it's his fault that Georgia gave up 400 rushing yards and 45 points? He threw for 375 yards, 3 TD, and 0 INT against Kentucky. Again, the Georgia defense gave up 38 points to Kentucky, not Matt Stafford. If the Georgia defense gave up 5 points to Kentucky, like the Florida defense did, Georgia would've won by 40 points. The fact that you bring up two games in which Stafford has looked like a bonafide superstar, to use against him, is laughable.


I have seen Stafford throw some stupid passes but he seems to get out of it by people saying he has a bad OL.Then I'm sure you've also seen the interceptions that he's thrown that were either tipped up into the air or because the receiver ran the wrong route.

You see Tebow scrambling and keeping his eyes down field to try and see if someone is open. You also saw that with Bradford as well. Personally, if I had the #1 pick I would take Bradford over Stafford all day.Tebow and Bradford play in very quarterback friendly system. When was the last time you saw Tebow throw the ball through a tight window and complete it down field? 80% of his passes are short or intermidiate routes within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. The only time he throws deep is when a receiver is wide open or when the receiver has the defender beat by about 3-4 yards. He wouldn't have half the success he is having if he was playing in the Georgia offense. I like Bradford a lot as a pro prospect, but he can't make an immediate impact like Stafford can. Good luck getting a kid who just turned 21 and has only 26 career starts to make a full transition from the spread to a pro style offense. Bradford is going to need to stay for his junior year if he plan on making an early impact in the NFL.

Sniper
12-07-2008, 10:33 AM
http://patrickdonohue.freedomblogging.com/files/2007/12/image3595304.jpg

Make it happen again!

Cigaro
12-07-2008, 10:53 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

3-4 years of teaching under a competent offensive coordinator (a guy who will stay with him for those 3-4 years) and he can be just as good as a guy who fell into the same situation. A Tony Romo, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady style situation (not saying he'll be as good as Brady, but the point remains). He has the arm and the physical tools. Fix the release and have someone teach him how to make the reads and take snaps under center, and he'll be fine.

I've also said if he's expected to be Matt Ryan, he's ******.

They didn't have near the problems Tebow has. They were still relatively pro style quarterbacks, just ones that people didn't think were that good.

Cigaro
12-07-2008, 11:16 AM
Well, you dont change what works. He will have to learn a new offense but so will Stafford. Georgia's is more pro style so obviously Tebow will have more to learn. I dont see why you would go away from his fullback mentality all around. If he is your QB then obviously you wont want him running but if its 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1 then he will have an easier time getting that first down.

You do change what works when it comes to the transition from college to the pros. There are no coordinators run anything close to Florida's offense as their base (Miami does use the wildcat, but I doubt they'd draft Tebow just for that). That means he is going to have to learn a radically new offense from what he has made him so successful these past seven years. Even if he somehow kept the same offense, he still has to work on his reads. Now he has to work on his reads in a completely new offense. And it's not reworking mechanics with him; it's teaching them. Meyer obviously hasn't stressed any sort of mechanics work with him, rather just letting him freewheel it and use natural talent.

Also, all these running he does that opens up the secondary, that won't happen in the NFL. Sure, teams are going to like his mobility. But you aren't going to see any NFL teams running the option with him, giving him all the goal line carries, or pumpfaking to his own self like he does at Florida. He's going to have to become like every other NFL quarterback and make himself at his best when passing from the pocket; the two times he has had to do that in college, it hasn't been pretty; vs UGA '07 and vs LSU '07.

Tebow leads his team while Stafford seems to give up. Georgia is a better team than Georgia Tech and Stafford also has a really talented WR in AJ Greene and one of the top RB's in the nation but they cant live up to their potential.

Tebow is the best leader in the nation, no one is arguing that. But it takes more than that to be successful.

Stafford can barely lead his team to victory over Kentucky while Tebow destroyed that same team by 60.

You give Stafford Florida's playmakers, and he wouldn't win by 60, but he'd win convincingly. There are other players on the field than Stafford and Tebow.


You get Georgia down and they give up. I have seen Stafford throw some stupid passes but he seems to get out of it by people saying he has a bad OL. You see Tebow scrambling and keeping his eyes down field to try and see if someone is open. You also saw that with Bradford as well.

Personally, if I had the #1 pick I would take Bradford over Stafford all day.

So I would I. I think Bradford and Sanchez will be better pros than Stafford.

BBIB
12-07-2008, 02:25 PM
Yeah, and Rex Grossman, Chris Leak, Jessie Palmer, and Danny Wuerrfel have been awesome in the pros too. :rolleyes:

None of those guys even played in the same system even if you were trying to make that argument. Now you're making the school argument? So I guess Bradford and Stafford have no chance in hell either. Hell what school does have a chance since most college QBs don't make it in the NFL?

BBIB
12-07-2008, 02:29 PM
Yes but Stafford has less of a mountain to climb. For Stafford to be successful in the NFL, he has to make better reads. For Tebow, he has to make better reads, learn a new offense, drop his fullback mentality, completely rework his footwork, and fix his release. Basically take everything that has made him successful the past seven years, dump it out, and start all over. Few can do that.

If you don't think Stafford has work to do on his footwork that's laughable.

As far as release, it HAS been tweaked this year. Tebow runs significantly less this year which is why he's stayed healthy. You don't think he has enough sense to know he can't truck NFL LBs?

Sniper
12-07-2008, 02:31 PM
Over the top, Timmy!

http://www.sportsbooks.ro/upload/pages/images/Tim-Tebow.jpg

MarioPalmer
12-07-2008, 03:26 PM
Tebow has a mountain to climb, whether Florida or Tebow fans will face that or can will be another story. They will pick him apart and will he have the makeup to get beat down by font office and scouts to come out of that strong and better then ever? I don't know. Also the rumors of him not being the brightest quarterback could also hurt him. Some people could see him as another Vince Young type QB. A guy who was praised and could do no wrong in college but then as soon as it got tough in the pros he completely crumbled and fell flat on his face.

Tebow has to show he can play the position. If Tebow were to have come out in the last 3 drafts he would have been a 2nd rounder at best. Russell, Quinn, Ryan, Flacco, Leinart, Young and Cutler were all better than Tebow coming out of college and Stafford, Bradford and Sanchez are better now. If Freeman can have the workouts that most think he can he would also be a better prospect. So Tebow has a lot to overcome. No one cares anymore what he does in a Florida uni, the verdict is in as far as I am concerned in the Swamp. We know he can play at the college level. Just like we knew about Vince Young we need to know if he can play the QB position like the top QB prospects can. Can he be a Matt Ryan? Can he be a Jay Cutler? Right now I don't think he can, but there is still time for him to learn and get better.

BBIB
12-07-2008, 03:51 PM
Tebow has a mountain to climb, whether Florida or Tebow fans will face that or can will be another story. They will pick him apart and will he have the makeup to get beat down by font office and scouts to come out of that strong and better then ever? I don't know. Also the rumors of him not being the brightest quarterback could also hurt him. Some people could see him as another Vince Young type QB. A guy who was praised and could do no wrong in college but then as soon as it got tough in the pros he completely crumbled and fell flat on his face.

Tebow has to show he can play the position. If Tebow were to have come out in the last 3 drafts he would have been a 2nd rounder at best. Russell, Quinn, Ryan, Flacco, Leinart, Young and Cutler were all better than Tebow coming out of college and Stafford, Bradford and Sanchez are better now. If Freeman can have the workouts that most think he can he would also be a better prospect. So Tebow has a lot to overcome. No one cares anymore what he does in a Florida uni, the verdict is in as far as I am concerned in the Swamp. We know he can play at the college level. Just like we knew about Vince Young we need to know if he can play the QB position like the top QB prospects can. Can he be a Matt Ryan? Can he be a Jay Cutler? Right now I don't think he can, but there is still time for him to learn and get better.

Comparing Tebow to Vince Young again is laughable. He was a better passer in his first year as a starter than Vince Young ever was.

And comparing them from a mental level is laughable as well. Vince Young is mentally weak compared to Tebow who's mental toughness is one of his biggest strengths.

And saying Joe Flacco is a better prospect is equally ridiculous. He showed nothing more than Tebow at Delaware than pure arm strength. And if you think that is all a prospect needs then I have a laundry list of guys who didn't make it who just had arm strength. Same goes for Sanchez the one year starter. And you want to talk about a guy not even close to ready for the NFL right now it's Josh Freeman who is absurdly inconsistent right now



As far as being a Matt Ryan or Jay Cutler, to be one of those guys you have to have the cast. It's yet to be determined what type of team Tebow lands on.

If he fell in the draft and landed in a dream situation like Minnesota, then absolutely.

Geason Noceur
12-07-2008, 05:09 PM
And comparing them from a mental level is laughable as well. Vince Young is mentally weak compared to Tebow who's mental toughness is one of his biggest strengths.

I think questioning whether Tebow has the mental aspect required at the pro level is a legitimate concern. He's way too emotional, especially when he loses. How is he going to handle the pressures of the pro-game? Is he going to be able to handle the criticisms? Because he's not only going to be criticized, but his whole game is going to picked apart piece by piece.

He's also not considered the brightest of pupils despite ESPN (his own personal network it seems like) trying to make viewers think otherwise. Having a good GPA in a Community Services major with help from tutors and playing in the spread option does not constitute being smart. How is he going to handle a complex pro offense without looking to the sidelines to change a play or having to go through multiple reads while having less time to throw without the option of taking off running? We don't know how he's going to handle that since he has not even done it at the college level.

shady00
12-07-2008, 05:28 PM
I think he will end up being taken with the Viking's 1st or trade up for an early 2nd, considering they offered to future 1stR's for Quinn.

jayceheathman
12-07-2008, 05:54 PM
You do change what works when it comes to the transition from college to the pros. There are no coordinators run anything close to Florida's offense as their base (Miami does use the wildcat, but I doubt they'd draft Tebow just for that). That means he is going to have to learn a radically new offense from what he has made him so successful these past seven years. Even if he somehow kept the same offense, he still has to work on his reads. Now he has to work on his reads in a completely new offense. And it's not reworking mechanics with him; it's teaching them. Meyer obviously hasn't stressed any sort of mechanics work with him, rather just letting him freewheel it and use natural talent.

Also, all these running he does that opens up the secondary, that won't happen in the NFL. Sure, teams are going to like his mobility. But you aren't going to see any NFL teams running the option with him, giving him all the goal line carries, or pumpfaking to his own self like he does at Florida. He's going to have to become like every other NFL quarterback and make himself at his best when passing from the pocket; the two times he has had to do that in college, it hasn't been pretty; vs UGA '07 and vs LSU '07.



Tebow is the best leader in the nation, no one is arguing that. But it takes more than that to be successful.



You give Stafford Florida's playmakers, and he wouldn't win by 60, but he'd win convincingly. There are other players on the field than Stafford and Tebow.


You get Georgia down and they give up. I have seen Stafford throw some stupid passes but he seems to get out of it by people saying he has a bad OL. You see Tebow scrambling and keeping his eyes down field to try and see if someone is open. You also saw that with Bradford as well.



So I would I. I think Bradford and Sanchez will be better pros than Stafford.


They wont let him run nearly as often as he does now but every team utitlizes the QB sneak on 4th and 1 and sometimes on short goal line positions. With Tebow in it would look like a back behind that OL. In those short yardage situations where you need a first down I would love to have Tebow in there. We rarely see the option in the NFL so that will go down like you mentioned. He is no Michael Vick or Vince Young but he also has the strength and quickness to get away from a tackle and maybe pick up positive yards. Everyone hits him on his release but he is still accurate against very good teams like Alabama, Florida State, and Georgia. Not to change the subject to baseball but Jeff Bagwell had the most awkward stance in the world and turned out to be one of the top power hitters in the game.

True, being a leader isnt all you need but its a quality that can definitely pick up your whole team. When you see him go crazy does it not even pump you up just watching the game? There was one comment one page back saying one negative about him was how he wont be able to take a loss. My response to that would be that you shouldnt be playing football if you dont get pissed off about a loss. You play to win.

Yes he will have to learn a new offense but so will every offensive player getting drafted. The transition will be easier for Stafford but its not like he isnt going to have a massive playbook to learn either.

Stafford definitely does have Florida's playmakers and IMO they may even be better so I really dont know what happened to Georgia this year. They are not the same team that absolutely destroyed Hawaii last year although they had a ton of players returning. Before the year started I put money on them to win the National Championship.

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 05:57 PM
When "heart" or "leadership" are the qualities mentioned first for a quarterback.....you know he has problems.

Halsey
12-07-2008, 05:59 PM
No way a QB who needs to work on his throwing mechanics can ever make it in the NFL!
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/nfl/img7104531.jpg

JETS5128
12-07-2008, 06:14 PM
The one thing i have to say about Tebow, is that i would rather draft a guy who has everything you can't teach (Leadership, emotion, Clutchness, intangibles) and needs work on technique/fundamentals, than draft a guy who has good technique etc. but doesn't have the other stuff. You can teach somebody how to read a defense or throw with textbook form (granted it isn't easy). No amount of coaching or teaching will make somebody a natural leader

SchizophrenicBatman
12-07-2008, 06:52 PM
I agree with the post above but the problem with Tebow is that he basically has to start in elementary school when it comes to the things that need to be taught.

It can be done, yes, but there are very few coaching staffs who have the job security (plus most that do already have a good QB) and are willing to put in the effort to do it.

Cigaro
12-07-2008, 06:52 PM
Stafford definitely does have Florida's playmakers and IMO they may even be better so I really dont know what happened to Georgia this year. They are not the same team that absolutely destroyed Hawaii last year although they had a ton of players returning. Before the year started I put money on them to win the National Championship.

I'll get to the other part, but this part is laughable:

A.J Green, Mohamed Massaquoi, Knowshon Moreno, Caleb King, Demiko Goodman, Kenneth Harris, Bruce Figgins = Percy Harvin, Chris Rainey, Jeffrey Demps, Aaron Hernandez, Louis Murphy, Riley Cooper, Deonte Thompson, Carl Moore?

jayceheathman
12-07-2008, 08:06 PM
I'll get to the other part, but this part is laughable:

A.J Green, Mohamed Massaquoi, Knowshon Moreno, Caleb King, Demiko Goodman, Kenneth Harris, Bruce Figgins = Percy Harvin, Chris Rainey, Jeffrey Demps, Aaron Hernandez, Louis Murphy, Riley Cooper, Deonte Thompson, Carl Moore?

Percy Harvin is more delicate than a 90 year old grandma. You cant debate Demps vs Moreno since Demps doesnt even play that much until recently. Massaquoi actually had a decent year with almost 1000 yards receiving as well as AJ Green almost hitting the 1000 yard mark as well as a freshman. Deonte Thompson also had what like 200 yards receiving this year? I barely ever saw him in the picture for many games. Aaron Hernandez definitely has Figgins beat though. He knows how to catch the ball although he doesnt look that big.

sbh15
12-07-2008, 08:08 PM
Percy Harvin is more delicate than a 90 year old grandma. You cant debate Demps vs Moreno since Demps doesnt even play that much until recently. Massaquoi actually had a decent year with almost 1000 yards receiving as well as AJ Green almost hitting the 1000 yard mark as well as a freshman. Deonte Thompson also had what like 200 yards receiving this year? I barely ever saw him in the picture for many games. Aaron Hernandez definitely has Figgins beat though. He knows how to catch the ball although he doesnt look that big.

Just because Harvin is delicate doesn't mean he's not a better playmaker or player than any of those Georgia players (COLLEGE PLAYER, NOT NFL)

Geason Noceur
12-07-2008, 08:11 PM
True, being a leader isnt all you need but its a quality that can definitely pick up your whole team. When you see him go crazy does it not even pump you up just watching the game? There was one comment one page back saying one negative about him was how he wont be able to take a loss. My response to that would be that you shouldnt be playing football if you dont get pissed off about a loss. You play to win.

Yes he will have to learn a new offense but so will every offensive player getting drafted. The transition will be easier for Stafford but its not like he isnt going to have a massive playbook to learn either.

Stafford definitely does have Florida's playmakers and IMO they may even be better so I really dont know what happened to Georgia this year. They are not the same team that absolutely destroyed Hawaii last year although they had a ton of players returning. Before the year started I put money on them to win the National Championship.

Being pissed about a loss is one thing. Crying afterwards is another. I'm not saying that it's wrong, but how are the 30+ year old veterans on a pro team going to take seeing their QB cry and sniffle after every loss?

Stafford has to learn a massive playbook. Tebow has to learn a massive playbook, and being undercenter, new throwing mechanics, going through progressions, not taking off running everytime a play breaks down, etc.

What happened to Georgia was injuries (mainly on both O and D lines) and a disappointing defense. They gave up something like 400+ yards rushing on their last game.

jayceheathman
12-07-2008, 08:24 PM
Just because Harvin is delicate doesn't mean he's not a better playmaker or player than any of those Georgia players (COLLEGE PLAYER, NOT NFL)

He is more comfortable with the spot on the sidelines than he is out wide. If he isnt on the field then it doesnt matter if he is more talented. Give AJ Greene 2 more years and you may seem up there with some great wideouts. He definitely has the size. There is no debating that Percy Harvin is talented because he is defenitely as talented as they come. With him out of the lineup it seems like Florida is a completely different team. AJ Greene has almost double the receiving yards as Harvin but then again Florida used him more as a running back than they did a WR.

bored of education
12-07-2008, 08:25 PM
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1897/picic9.jpg


=



epic fail

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 08:45 PM
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/1897/picic9.jpg


=



epic fail

but you can't measure heart BOE!

http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/forum/images/smiles/roll1.gif

bored of education
12-07-2008, 08:49 PM
http://liberalvaluesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/tebow-and-girlfriend.jpg
his heart is bigger than her boobies

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 08:50 PM
http://liberalvaluesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/tebow-and-girlfriend.jpg
his heart is bigger than her boobies

I doubt that.

sbh15
12-07-2008, 08:53 PM
I doubt that.

It's also physically impossible. He'd be dead.

Good thing he isn't ;)

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 08:55 PM
Tebow gets so many bitches.

He could walk onto the UF campus and just point at any girl and say...

"It's YOUR turn to experience the Heisman"

It makes me sad.

sbh15
12-07-2008, 08:56 PM
Tebow gets so many bitches.

He could just walk onto the UF campus and just point at any girl and say...

"It's YOUR turn to experience the Heisman"

It makes me sad.

Hahaha. QFT.

bored of education
12-07-2008, 08:56 PM
Tebow gets so many bitches.

He could just walk onto the UF campus and just point at any girl and say...

"It's YOUR turn to experience the Heisman"

It makes me sad.


"you ever done the heisman pose"

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 09:02 PM
"you ever done the heisman pose"

Who would win in a fight?

Cutler or Tebow?

Cutler is strong as **** but Tebow is big hick.

sbh15
12-07-2008, 09:04 PM
Who would win in a fight?

Cutler or Tebow?

Cutler is strong as **** but Tebow is big hick.

Jay Cutler would tag team with Wilford Brimley but Tebow would still bring them down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pod4jIKT_kA&feature=related

CashmoneyDrew
12-07-2008, 09:04 PM
None of those guys even played in the same system even if you were trying to make that argument. Now you're making the school argument? So I guess Bradford and Stafford have no chance in hell either. Hell what school does have a chance since most college QBs don't make it in the NFL?

And Booty, Leinart and Sanchez have played under different OC's as well. You're the one that brought up the past school QB's argument so don't try to pin that one on me bub.

AkiliSmith
12-07-2008, 09:10 PM
Who would win in a fight?

Cutler or Tebow?

Cutler is strong as **** but Tebow is big hick.

Cutler would hit Tebow three times in the time it would take him to wind up to punch.

Plus Cutler has diabetes, and everyone knows that when diabetics get pissed they get super human strength.

Bruce Banner
12-07-2008, 09:12 PM
Cutler would hit Tebow three times in the time it would take him to wind up to punch.

I want to sig this so terribly bad (along with my question).

ElectricEye
12-07-2008, 10:26 PM
Plus Cutler has diabetes, and everyone knows that when diabetics get pissed they get super human strength.

I love this forum.

giantsfan
12-07-2008, 10:28 PM
Jay Cutler would tag team with Wilford Brimley but Tebow would still bring them down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pod4jIKT_kA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4LyaNgzy6U

giantsfan
12-07-2008, 10:31 PM
I want to sig this so terribly bad (along with my question).

and you miss the best part of that post. I'm disappointed.

johnstonolb
12-07-2008, 10:32 PM
Tebow is a draft mistake waiting to happen.

jayceheathman
12-08-2008, 03:48 AM
Tebow is a draft mistake waiting to happen.

I think I will add to that negative rep.

giantsfan
12-08-2008, 03:52 AM
I think I will add to that negative rep.

For posting an opinion often stated on these boards without any rational explanation? You must neg rep a lot of people on here.

niel89
12-08-2008, 06:26 AM
And saying Joe Flacco is a better prospect is equally ridiculous. He showed nothing more than Tebow at Delaware than pure arm strength. And if you think that is all a prospect needs then I have a laundry list of guys who didn't make it who just had arm strength. Same goes for Sanchez the one year starter. And you want to talk about a guy not even close to ready for the NFL right now it's Josh Freeman who is absurdly inconsistent right now




At draft time Joe Flacco was a better prospect then Tebow will be when he enters. There is a reason he was taken in the first round, some had him as the best QB in the draft last year. I'm not sure that Tebow will have that type of grade put on him. I think that Tebow is an amazing college QB, but he will not have near the same level of success at the next level. He will most likely be remembered as a great college player.

Also the argument that he could have be good if he has 3 or so years to develop in the NFL is a difficult scenario. Its hard to have a situation that is stable in the NFL for that long for some teams. There are a lot of coaching changes that are constantly happening and if offensive systems are constantly being switched it's hard for a player to develop. There are a lot of good players that just don't get a real shot to develop because of factors out of their control.

SenorGato
12-08-2008, 07:31 AM
Cutler would hit Tebow three times in the time it would take him to wind up to punch.

Plus Cutler has diabetes, and everyone knows that when diabetics get pissed they get super human strength.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b25/jmbt/diabeetus.jpg

georgiafan
12-08-2008, 08:57 AM
Well, you dont change what works. He will have to learn a new offense but so will Stafford. Georgia's is more pro style so obviously Tebow will have more to learn. I dont see why you would go away from his fullback mentality all around. If he is your QB then obviously you wont want him running but if its 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1 then he will have an easier time getting that first down. Tebow leads his team while Stafford seems to give up. Georgia is a better team than Georgia Tech and Stafford also has a really talented WR in AJ Greene and one of the top RB's in the nation but they cant live up to their potential. Stafford can barely lead his team to victory over Kentucky while Tebow destroyed that same team by 60. You get Georgia down and they give up. I have seen Stafford throw some stupid passes but he seems to get out of it by people saying he has a bad OL. You see Tebow scrambling and keeping his eyes down field to try and see if someone is open. You also saw that with Bradford as well. Personally, if I had the #1 pick I would take Bradford over Stafford all day.


This is the most biased post I've ever seen on this site. I'm not even going to waste my time typing a detailed reply.

Bruce Banner
12-08-2008, 09:00 AM
Mayock was on Mike and Mike analyzing/(DESTROYING) Tebow as a prospect. He emphasized his throwing motion. Golic agrees and doesn't see Tebow panning out.

619
12-08-2008, 09:20 AM
Mayock was on Mike and Mike analyzing/(DESTROYING) Tebow as a prospect. He emphasized his throwing motion. Golic agrees and doesn't see Tebow panning out.

Did Mayock mention a position change for Tebow yet again ?

Bruce Banner
12-08-2008, 09:23 AM
Did Mayock mention a position change for Tebow yet again ?

More or less. He figures the time it would take him to become serviceable at QB would take around the same time it would require for him to change positions, and become serviceable there.

He says NO WAY he would take him in the first or second (first day) but he would on the second day.

bored of education
12-08-2008, 09:47 AM
Dick Vitale, who is on Tebow's brajole, was teelign a story about being on kenny Chesney's tour bus that invovled Tebow. Someone on the bus that is good friends with Peyton Manning texted Peyton to say 'ZOMGZZZZZZZZZZ TIM TEBOWZZZZ IZZ on THUE BUZ;. Peyton sent a text back to the guy along the line "tell him he will one day be an all pro....fullback"

lolzerz!

Bruce Banner
12-08-2008, 09:48 AM
Dick Vitale, who is on Tebow's brajole, was teelign a story about being on kenny Chesney's tour bus that invovled Tebow. Someone on the bus that is good friends with Peyton Manning texted Peyton to say 'ZOMGZZZZZZZZZZ TIM TEBOWZZZZ IZZ on THUE BUZ;. Peyton sent a text back to the guy along the line "tell him he will one day be an all pro....fullback"

lolzerz!

hahahahaha

Halsey
12-08-2008, 10:21 AM
Tebow may end up being a bust as a QB, but sometimes risks pay off. People can say Tebow is like this player or that player and has poor mechanics blah blah. The thing about player comparisons is they don't mean anything except on message boards. Matt Ryan got compared to everyone from Ryan Leaf to Chad Pennington a year ago. Yeah, those comparisons meant a lot. Tim Tebow isn't any other QB. No other player has ever scored 55 TD's in a season and no other player ever won the Heisman as a sophmore. Some team with a late round first could take him and if he doesn't work out as a QB, big deal. Move him to FB and use him as a short yardage QB. It's not like late first rounders are sure bets to work out anyway. Take any draft and look at the hit/miss rate on late first rounders. At best he's a franchise QB, at worst he's a FB/special package QB.

bored of education
12-08-2008, 11:24 AM
He could be a perfect wildcat 'QB'.

TheGM
12-08-2008, 01:58 PM
Tim is a fourth or fifth round draft pick. No disrespect to him or Florida but, it is what it is. Teams pick based on value, early round guys are expected to be starters in two years, no team wants to pay a ton of money for a backup/developmental project. When you evaluate the QB position you have to look at the QB not the school,supporting cast, or offense. Talent is talent regardless of where it comes from. Bottom line Tebow's game has little in common with any of the leagues top flight talent. Manning has an incredible ability to run an offense, Brady has tremendous pocket movement and ability to read a defense, Warner and Brees have lightning fast decision making and delivery. Bottom line what is the difference between Tebow and Troy Smith other than hype?

Bruce Banner
12-08-2008, 02:00 PM
Tim is a fourth or fifth round draft pick. No disrespect to him or Florida but, it is what it is. Teams pick based on value, early round guys are expected to be starters in two years, no team wants to pay a ton of money for a backup/developmental project. When you evaluate the QB position you have to look at the QB not the school,supporting cast, or offense. Talent is talent regardless of where it comes from. Bottom line Tebow's game has little in common with any of the leagues top flight talent. Manning has an incredible ability to run an offense, Brady has tremendous pocket movement and ability to read a defense, Warner and Brees have lightning fast decision making and delivery. Bottom line what is the difference between Tebow and Troy Smith other than hype?

THIS is a great first post.

Sniper
12-08-2008, 02:07 PM
Bottom line what is the difference between Tebow and Troy Smith other than hype?

3 inches and 20 pounds, along with a significantly different running style.

hockey619
12-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Tim is a fourth or fifth round draft pick. No disrespect to him or Florida but, it is what it is. Teams pick based on value, early round guys are expected to be starters in two years, no team wants to pay a ton of money for a backup/developmental project. When you evaluate the QB position you have to look at the QB not the school,supporting cast, or offense. Talent is talent regardless of where it comes from. Bottom line Tebow's game has little in common with any of the leagues top flight talent. Manning has an incredible ability to run an offense, Brady has tremendous pocket movement and ability to read a defense, Warner and Brees have lightning fast decision making and delivery. Bottom line what is the difference between Tebow and Troy Smith other than hype?


Tebow is much bigger and seems to have incredible intangibles, keeping his team together and pulling out big wins against quality opponents. Your very right on his draft position though. Hes to big of a risk to be taken in the first two rounds because he is going to require a lot of work. Three years minimum, and thats for a guy with his incredible work ethic. A lot of good points though.

Halsey
12-08-2008, 02:53 PM
Tim is a fourth or fifth round draft pick. No disrespect to him or Florida but, it is what it is. Teams pick based on value, early round guys are expected to be starters in two years, no team wants to pay a ton of money for a backup/developmental project. When you evaluate the QB position you have to look at the QB not the school,supporting cast, or offense. Talent is talent regardless of where it comes from. Bottom line Tebow's game has little in common with any of the leagues top flight talent. Manning has an incredible ability to run an offense, Brady has tremendous pocket movement and ability to read a defense, Warner and Brees have lightning fast decision making and delivery. Bottom line what is the difference between Tebow and Troy Smith other than hype?
No team wants to pay for a developmental project? Most of the QB's picked in the draft are developmental projects. The difference in Tebow and Smith is Tebow has ideal size while Smith is 5'10.

bored of education
12-08-2008, 02:58 PM
3 inches and 20 pounds, along with a significantly different running style.

Tebow's throwing motion makes his rlease heights actually lower than Smith's. I actually went out on the field and measured. Peep that pick I put up earler. He squats every throw lowering his release point. Fixing that is like fixing Dice-K's wind up. AINT GONE HAPPEN!

Halsey
12-08-2008, 03:18 PM
Tebow's throwing motion makes his rlease heights actually lower than Smith's. I actually went out on the field and measured. Peep that pick I put up earler. He squats every throw lowering his release point. Fixing that is like fixing Dice-K's wind up. AINT GONE HAPPEN!

Yep, throwing motions can never be fixed.
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/nfl/img7104531.jpghttp://www.nfl.com.mx/imagerepository/rivers_philip2.jpg:D

TheGM
12-08-2008, 05:37 PM
No team wants to pay for a developmental project? Most of the QB's picked in the draft are developmental projects. The difference in Tebow and Smith is Tebow has ideal size while Smith is 5'10.
Yes most QBs are developmental and they are paid accordingly. If you draft Tebow mid round one and it takes two years (if he comes along fast) to get him ready to start the team would have spent five to seven million in salary and bonuses. Same team gets him in the fifth and he costs maybe a million, you do the math.

TheGM
12-08-2008, 05:57 PM
ESPN's Todd McShay Just reported that he estimates Tebow is a day two pick if he comes out.

keylime_5
12-08-2008, 06:00 PM
Yep, throwing motions can never be fixed.


Rivers still has funky mechanics. Bernie Kosar always did too. Tebow's mechanics have gotten worse from 2007 to 2008.

sbh15
12-08-2008, 06:01 PM
ESPN's Todd McShay Just reported that he estimates Tebow is a day two pick if he comes out.

I'm glad. If Tebow is a day one pick it sets him up for failure. Being a day two pick lets him sit back without expectations and learn an offense. If that doesn't pan out, then so be it.

bored of education
12-08-2008, 07:03 PM
Yep, throwing motions can never be fixed.
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/nfl/img7104531.jpghttp://www.nfl.com.mx/imagerepository/rivers_philip2.jpg:D

Rivers > Tebow

Kids these days. :(

Bruce Banner
12-08-2008, 07:17 PM
I know, WTF.

Rivers was drafted #4 overall.

sbh15
12-08-2008, 07:18 PM
I know, WTF.

Rivers was drafted #4 overall.

I think the point is that throwing motions can be corrected. Though I think everyone will also agree that Phillip Rivers is a vastly superior NFL prospect than Tim Tebow.

GBahDunka
12-08-2008, 07:20 PM
Theres nothing really wrong with rivers delivery. Yes its sidearm but its still much more fluid than the likes of Vince Young's. Tebow doesnt really throw the ball, he kind of just forces it off of his hands which doesnt create enough speed and spin. Rivers also has corrected part of his stance by standing straighter than college which helps him not have the ball tipped.

Bruce Banner
12-08-2008, 07:22 PM
Theres nothing really wrong with rivers delivery. Yes its sidearm but its still much more fluid than the likes of Vince Young's. Tebow doesnt really throw the ball, he kind of just forces it off of his hands which doesnt create enough speed and spin. Rivers also has corrected part of his stance by standing straighter than college which helps him not have the ball tipped.

EXACTLY.

Tebow hops when he throws.

Pathetic.

Halsey
12-08-2008, 08:06 PM
Yes most QBs are developmental and they are paid accordingly. If you draft Tebow mid round one and it takes two years (if he comes along fast) to get him ready to start the team would have spent five to seven million in salary and bonuses. Same team gets him in the fifth and he costs maybe a million, you do the math.

So you think developmental QB's are only drafted in late rounds? Do you think the Titans thought Vince Young was NFL ready from day 1? JeMarcus Russell? You think the Ravens expected Flacco to play this season? You think the Falcons drafted Michael Vick expecting him to be NFL ready? Did the Packers expect Aaron Rodgers to come right in and start. No, they didn't.

Now, you will predictably try to make excuses and say why those QB's were NFL ready. You would be wrong. NFL teams draft developmental QB's in the first all the time. Either you know it or you're wrong.

jayceheathman
12-08-2008, 08:06 PM
Tim is a fourth or fifth round draft pick. No disrespect to him or Florida but, it is what it is. Teams pick based on value, early round guys are expected to be starters in two years, no team wants to pay a ton of money for a backup/developmental project. When you evaluate the QB position you have to look at the QB not the school,supporting cast, or offense. Talent is talent regardless of where it comes from. Bottom line Tebow's game has little in common with any of the leagues top flight talent. Manning has an incredible ability to run an offense, Brady has tremendous pocket movement and ability to read a defense, Warner and Brees have lightning fast decision making and delivery. Bottom line what is the difference between Tebow and Troy Smith other than hype?

Its easy to say that now that those guys have performed at the top level for so long. Obviously no one thought that Brady had tremendous pocket movement and ability to read the defense while in college. Oh, and Aaron Rodgers was a first round pick and he wasnt a starter in 2 years.

bored of education
12-08-2008, 08:08 PM
*hops while posting on NFLDC*

Halsey
12-08-2008, 08:20 PM
Rivers > Tebow

Kids these days. :(

Kids who get proven wrong about throwing motions and then have no better comeback than the witty "Rivers > Tebow"? Yeah, kids. They should go back to school. :D

TheGM
12-08-2008, 08:22 PM
So you think developmental QB's are only drafted in late rounds? Do you think the Titans thought Vince Young was NFL ready from day 1? JeMarcus Russell? You think the Ravens expected Flacco to play this season? You think the Falcons drafted Michael Vick expecting him to be NFL ready? Did the Packers expect Aaron Rodgers to come right in and start. No, they didn't.

Now, you will predictably try to make excuses and say why those QB's were NFL ready. You would be wrong. NFL teams draft developmental QB's in the first all the time. Either you know it or you're wrong.
I think you are confusing preparation and development. When you draft a QB round one he is going to play the organization has a responsibility to prepare that player and get him in a position to succeed. Jake Delome, Tono Romo, and Tom Brady are developmental players. Coming out of college you wouldn't have wanted to bet the franchise on them but, they displayed enough potential and talent to keep on the roster in hopes that they could fill in for an injured player or if the team is lucky start. Tebow can't run like Vick (but he has a much better character), throw like Russell, and he doesn't have the mechanics of Flacco. So, explain to me how he is a first round pick because I don't see it. Tebow is a great player and I hope he succeeds but it would be a major exception to the rule.

Halsey
12-08-2008, 08:23 PM
I will say this. Guys like McShay and Mayock were right about Matt Ryan when so many people on these boards said they were wrong. If they say Tim Tebow is no more than a mid round pick I'd trust them over my own opinion. I still won't be surprised to see an NFL team take him late rnd 1, however.

bored of education
12-08-2008, 08:23 PM
Kids who get proven wrong about throwing motions and then have no better comeback than the witty "Rivers > Tebow"? Yeah, kids. They should go back to school. :D

taking pics out of context!
I was at work and was on break and saw I had 2 minutesd left lol.

Well that pic doesn't show that River release point is still above 6'1.

Tebow squats and throws from Mugsy Bogues height. Suprised he doesnt hit his Oline in the back.

Rivers mechanics were overshadowed by his awesome Qbing skills though.

Umm I forgot what else I was going to write!

Halsey
12-08-2008, 08:26 PM
I think you are confusing preparation and development.

I think you're trying to play semantics because I pointed out multiple examples of developmental QB's being drafted in round 1. You know I'm right deep down, but don't want to admit it. . Sorry, not playing the semantics game.

illmatic74
12-08-2008, 08:27 PM
Kids who get proven wrong about throwing motions and then have no better comeback than the witty "Rivers > Tebow"? Yeah, kids. They should go back to school. :DBut the thing is there throwing motion promblem isn't the same. Rivers had a sidearmed delivery but it was quick. Tebow's delivery is just slow. Also Tebow is nowhere near the passer Rivers was coming out of college. Rivers completed 70% of his passes in a prostyle offense. I remember Mike Mayock saying that Rivers was the smartest QB he had ever evaluated.

Zyro_1014
12-08-2008, 08:50 PM
Yep, throwing motions can never be fixed.
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/football/nfl/img7104531.jpghttp://www.nfl.com.mx/imagerepository/rivers_philip2.jpg:D

i bet you hes throwing the ball further down the field on the pic to the right.

Bruce Banner
12-08-2008, 08:52 PM
i bet you hes throwing the ball further down the field on the pic to the right.

yeah, the context is everything.

TheGM
12-08-2008, 10:09 PM
Its easy to say that now that those guys have performed at the top level for so long. Obviously no one thought that Brady had tremendous pocket movement and ability to read the defense while in college. Oh, and Aaron Rodgers was a first round pick and he wasnt a starter in 2 years.
I was trying to give examples of very successful players with different styles. All the players I listed have a skill set that works well in the NFL. 90% of Tom Brady is a damn good player. These guys are models of how to do well in the league.

TheGM
12-08-2008, 10:22 PM
I think you are confusing preparation and development. When you draft a QB round one he is going to play the organization has a responsibility to prepare that player and get him in a position to succeed. Jake Delome, Tono Romo, and Tom Brady are developmental players. Coming out of college you wouldn't have wanted to bet the franchise on them but, they displayed enough potential and talent to keep on the roster in hopes that they could fill in for an injured player or if the team is lucky start. Tebow can't run like Vick (but he has a much better character), throw like Russell, and he doesn't have the mechanics of Flacco. So, explain to me how he is a first round pick because I don't see it. Tebow is a great player and I hope he succeeds but it would be a major exception to the rule.

I think you're trying to play semantics because I pointed out multiple examples of developmental QB's being drafted in round 1. You know I'm right deep down, but don't want to admit it. . Sorry, not playing the semantics game.
I think you're confusing Tim Tebow with quarterbacks who can play in the NFL.

Scott Wright
12-08-2008, 10:23 PM
For a fullback Tim Tebow is a heck of a quarterback...

:)

Sniper
12-08-2008, 10:25 PM
Tebow for Heisman in '08 and '09!

giantsfan
12-08-2008, 10:34 PM
Look let's not kid ourselves and recognize tebow will be drafted as a quarterback, should he fail at that he could then see himself changing positions. But he will get a chance to develop as a QB. He's going to light up oklahoma, with his arm and come out end up either sliding into the end of round one or going around the middle of round two to a more stable team and sit for a few years, possibly getting some playing time in trick plays based on his athleticism but basically being the third QB for two years and then we'll find out what kind of QB he can be, hate him if you want but I don't get the possible point of getting so riled up about something that's very highly dependent on chance and variables we won't have the answer to for a few years. remember in any draft it only takes one team to fall in love with his character, athletic ability, work ethic and potential as a passer.

/wall of text.

Scott Wright
12-08-2008, 11:37 PM
It is far from a guarantee that Tebow will be drafted as a quarterback.

In fact, the only way he'd be 100% sure to be drafted as a quarterback is if he told teams he's not open to changing positions. However, by doing that he also risks a considerable Draft Day drop.

Assuming he doesn't rule out a position switch I think Tebow could be drafted as high as the second or third round. If he only wants to be considered as a quarterback he is probably more of a fourth or fifth.

giantsfan
12-08-2008, 11:49 PM
It is far from a guarantee that Tebow will be drafted as a quarterback.

In fact, the only way he'd be 100% sure to be drafted as a quarterback is if he told teams he's not open to changing positions. However, by doing that he also risks a considerable Draft Day drop.

Assuming he doesn't rule out a position switch I think Tebow could be drafted as high as the second or third round. If he only wants to be considered as a quarterback he is probably more of a fourth or fifth.

You don't think the team that drafts him will him a shot to show them what his future looks like at QB?

Scott Wright
12-08-2008, 11:50 PM
You don't think the team that drafts him will him a shot to show them what his future looks like at QB?

It really depends on the team.

Some will like him as a quarterback and some will only be willing to draft him if he's willing to change positions.

giantsfan
12-08-2008, 11:51 PM
It really depends on the team.

Some will like him as a quarterback and some will only be willing to draft him if he's willing to change positions.

Still simply due to the value of the QB position don't you think the team test him out at QB, even if they have other plans for him?

Scott Wright
12-09-2008, 12:45 AM
Still simply due to the value of the QB position don't you think the team test him out at QB, even if they have other plans for him?

No, not necessarily.

Just ask Eric Crouch.

Zyro_1014
12-09-2008, 01:10 AM
No, not necessarily.

Just ask Eric Crouch.

Didnt Crouch run the veer in college? lol

giantsfan
12-09-2008, 02:04 AM
No, not necessarily.

Just ask Eric Crouch.

But eric crouch was never a quarterback, he was a running back who ran the option and occasionally would extend his pitch forwards across the line of scrimmage which onlookers foolishly mis-took as attempting a forward pass.

Tebow actually throws the ball and has an arm.

Bruce Banner
12-09-2008, 02:06 AM
has an arm.

I have an arm too, doesn't mean it's good.

giantsfan
12-09-2008, 02:08 AM
I have an arm too, doesn't mean it's good.

It means you're better than eric crouch. He had forearms sticking out of his shoulders.

Bruce Banner
12-09-2008, 02:12 AM
It means you're better than eric crouch. He had forearms sticking out of his shoulders.

well played.


well, played.

giantsfan
12-09-2008, 02:15 AM
I tried to find a clip on youtube of crouch actually throwing a football and discovered that eric crouch may have actually had more catches than pass attempts.

Bruce Banner
12-09-2008, 02:23 AM
I heard that Eric Crouch now owns a chain of strip clubs.

Can anyone confirm?

giantsfan
12-09-2008, 02:25 AM
I heard that Eric Crouch now owns a chain of strip clubs.

Can anyone confirm?

Yeah they're really cool expect eric demands that they let him perform whenever he's there which just gives it a weird vibe.

georgiafan
12-09-2008, 08:14 AM
I think Tebow will go higher then most people expect and remember it only takes 1 team to fall in love with him not 32. Some team is going to like his size, leadership, running, intanglebiles and draft him higher then they should. Also if your a owner of a team he is a PR dream and a goldmine. If UF wins the national title or he gets another heisman he will have even more going his way. If he goes in the 2nd/3rd round he will break records for endorsment deals.

gpngc
12-09-2008, 08:57 AM
I think Tebow will go higher then most people expect and remember it only takes 1 team to fall in love with him not 32. Some team is going to like his size, leadership, running, intanglebiles and draft him higher then they should. Also if your a owner of a team he is a PR dream and a goldmine. If UF wins the national title or he gets another heisman he will have even more going his way. If he goes in the 2nd/3rd round he will break records for endorsment deals.

Bingo.

As far as size, leadership, intangibles, and star power- Tim Tebow is the #1 overall pick and a half. The argument here is that "well none of that matters if he can't throw the ball". He CAN throw. Well enough to be a good NFL QB? That's the million $ question.

The ONLY questions about this kid have to do with his footwork and arm. Finally, a prospect where INDIVIDUAL WORKOUTS actually will mean something.

If he shows he can drop back, release the ball in time and hit his targets- He'll be a sure first round pick.

I was on the fence, but I'm off it now. He will get a shot to be a QB in the NFL. You just can't teach what he definitely does have- and the release point/footwork/accuracy stuff- I've FINALLY gotten over it. The play that did it for me was the perfectly thrown slant to seal the game on Saturday.

Two other things that help his chances:
1) Wildcat fever.
2) Increasing shotgun (Kurt Warner is in it all game, even Holmgren finally gave in to adding a shotgun formation).

bored of education
12-09-2008, 09:49 AM
Bingo.

As far as size, leadership, intangibles, and star power- Tim Tebow is the #1 overall pick and a half. The argument here is that "well none of that matters if he can't throw the ball". He CAN throw. Well enough to be a good NFL QB? That's the million $ question.

The ONLY questions about this kid have to do with his footwork and arm. Finally, a prospect where INDIVIDUAL WORKOUTS actually will mean something.

If he shows he can drop back, release the ball in time and hit his targets- He'll be a sure first round pick.

I was on the fence, but I'm off it now. He will get a shot to be a QB in the NFL. You just can't teach what he definitely does have- and the release point/footwork/accuracy stuff- I've FINALLY gotten over it. The play that did it for me was the perfectly thrown slant to seal the game on Saturday.

Two other things that help his chances:
1) Wildcat fever.
2) Increasing shotgun (Kurt Warner is in it all game, even Holmgren finally gave in to adding a shotgun formation).

The Chiefs "pistol", "I-Gun" formation is a Tebow type offense.

renegade
12-10-2008, 09:34 PM
I don't know how I feel about Tim Tebow, I think he is a guy who isn't prolific but he just wins. He'll do what it takes to win and lead teams with his toughness and grit. He has alot of mobility and a good arm. He IS that Florida team.

The fact that he comes from that horrid spread offense that Florida runs ruins him.

Race for the Heisman
12-11-2008, 12:29 AM
Tebow to the Jets in round one? They should be picking relatively late, have Brett Favor for a few more years (probably) and their other needs, while certainly real, aren't glaring (hence the relatively luxurious projection of a running back in round one).

Comphockey7
12-11-2008, 09:07 AM
Quick Q, this kind of off topic, but if Tebow wins this Heisman again, would he get two votes in future Heisman voting because he would of won it twice?

BuddyCHRIST
12-11-2008, 09:58 AM
I don't know how I feel about Tim Tebow, I think he is a guy who isn't prolific but he just wins. He'll do what it takes to win and lead teams with his toughness and grit. He has alot of mobility and a good arm. He IS that Florida team.

The fact that he comes from that horrid spread offense that Florida runs ruins him.

Well he's very prolific, his numbers are probably one of the biggest things he has going for him. But I don't understand why people think he "IS" the UF team. Just because the CBS announcers can't stop giving him a reach around? They even said UF's kickoff coverage was better because Tebow got them fired up.

But alot of people seem to forget how absolutely stacked UF is with talent, Harvin is a monster and they have tons of speed and weapons. Ever notice that most of UF's recievers are wide open? Also enough credit isn't given to Urban Meyer, hate his guts but he's been pretty much amazing at every place he's been. Alex Smith but up similar numbers (cept Urbie didnt run him on the 1 yard line to pad stats) and he had success at Bowling Green too. Meyers obviously has a pretty ridiculous offensive system.

BBIB
12-11-2008, 04:44 PM
Well he's very prolific, his numbers are probably one of the biggest things he has going for him. But I don't understand why people think he "IS" the UF team. Just because the CBS announcers can't stop giving him a reach around? They even said UF's kickoff coverage was better because Tebow got them fired up.

But alot of people seem to forget how absolutely stacked UF is with talent, Harvin is a monster and they have tons of speed and weapons. Ever notice that most of UF's recievers are wide open? Also enough credit isn't given to Urban Meyer, hate his guts but he's been pretty much amazing at every place he's been. Alex Smith but up similar numbers (cept Urbie didnt run him on the 1 yard line to pad stats) and he had success at Bowling Green too. Meyers obviously has a pretty ridiculous offensive system.

Obviously he isn't a one man team. ALthough we beat Alabama, our offense was not as explosive without Harvin.

Personally I think some of the talent around him is overrated at the WR position. People love to name names, but truly Harvin and Murphy are the only guys that are anywhere close to elite. And truly I think Murphy is highly overrated.


The fact that he comes from that horrid spread offense that Florida runs ruins him.

It will hurt his stock off of the reputation that it's been bashed because of the recent failures of Vince Young and Alex Smith as completely unfair it is to judge Tebow off of those two guys. But it won't hurt his chances of succeeding in the NFL.

Guys have come from offenses just as unconventional to go on to have success.

nhlkdog411
12-11-2008, 07:21 PM
See what I don't get is how guys like Vince Young and Mike Vick can be top 3 picks but Tebow is supposed to be a freaking fullback with no chance at being a quarterback..Tebow is a WAY WAY WAY better QB than VY and VY is still expected to be the Titans starter at some point when Collins is done (and he got a couple years to try being a QB and suck too).

GBahDunka
12-11-2008, 07:26 PM
vince young also ran a 4.4 opposed to like a 4.6 and he was shifty

vince young can throw much better than tebows **** ass arm

giantsfan
12-11-2008, 08:20 PM
vince young also ran a 4.4 opposed to like a 4.6 and he was shifty

vince young can throw much better than tebows **** ass arm

that last part is just wrong, vince's release was quicker but that was the only thing he even did as well as tebow as a passer.

Staubach12
12-12-2008, 12:09 AM
vince young also ran a 4.4 opposed to like a 4.6 and he was shifty

vince young can throw much better than tebows **** ass arm

Yeah, the first part is wrong, too. Young ran about a 4.6. I'd be surprised if Tebow ran anything lower than a 4.75.

BBIB
12-12-2008, 10:50 AM
See what I don't get is how guys like Vince Young and Mike Vick can be top 3 picks but Tebow is supposed to be a freaking fullback with no chance at being a quarterback..Tebow is a WAY WAY WAY better QB than VY and VY is still expected to be the Titans starter at some point when Collins is done (and he got a couple years to try being a QB and suck too).

Well there is a recent phenomenon on hating on dual threat QBs particularly from the spread because of the failures of Alex Smith and Vince Young as if every spread option QB was doomed to be no better than those two.

It's a complete joke of an idea that has been pedaled very strongly by the media and their draft experts.


It's a ridiculous standard that Tebow is being held to that other guys like Bradford and STafford are not held to with regards with judging a QB's pro potential by the failure/success of predecessors from the same school/system.

BBIB
12-12-2008, 10:52 AM
vince young also ran a 4.4 opposed to like a 4.6 and he was shifty

vince young can throw much better than tebows **** ass arm

Vince Young ran a 4.58 on a fast track before the draft

Vince Young didn't even have more TDs than INTs his first two years as a starting QB.

He only had one decent year as a passer. Tebow was a better passer as a True Sophmore in his first year as a starter than Vince Young was in his redshirt Junior season that was his third season as a starter.

illmatic74
12-12-2008, 10:52 AM
Well there is a recent phenomenon on hating on dual threat QBs particularly from the spread because of the failures of Alex Smith and Vince Young as if every spread option QB was doomed to be no better than those two.

It's a complete joke of an idea that has been pedaled very strongly by the media and their draft experts.


It's a ridiculous standard that Tebow is being held to that other guys like Bradford and STafford are not held to with regards with judging a QB's pro potential by the failure/success of predecessors from the same school/system.It is not just the system it is also his release, footwork, mechanics and lack of touch.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-12-2008, 10:53 AM
It's because Tim Tebow is inaccurate with a funky motion and Leftwichesque windup.

BBIB
12-12-2008, 10:56 AM
It is not just the system it is also his release, footwork, mechanics and lack of touch.

Again other guys not held to the same standard. Matthew Stafford doesnt need to work on touch, footwork, and mechanics? BTW I love how people incorporate footwork, mechanics, and release like it's three separate entities.

Footwork IS mechanics.


And for the last cliche argument about his release, it has been tweaked and it is much quicker and gives Tebow even more zip on his throws. Hell he worked with biomechanics to tweak it. Some people confuse the Tebow PA fake with a slow release.

It's because Tim Tebow is inaccurate with a funky motion and Leftwichesque windup.

Yeah because Tebow brings the ball all the way down to his hip a la Byron Leftwich LOL.

THat is almost as laughable as the idea that he is inaccurate considering the guy's ability to put the ball between the numbers and hit guys in perfect stride.

gpngc
12-12-2008, 11:47 AM
Again other guys not held to the same standard. Matthew Stafford doesnt need to work on touch, footwork, and mechanics? BTW I love how people incorporate footwork, mechanics, and release like it's three separate entities.

Footwork IS mechanics.


And for the last cliche argument about his release, it has been tweaked and it is much quicker and gives Tebow even more zip on his throws. Hell he worked with biomechanics to tweak it. Some people confuse the Tebow PA fake with a slow release.



Yeah because Tebow brings the ball all the way down to his hip a la Byron Leftwich LOL.

THat is almost as laughable as the idea that he is inaccurate considering the guy's ability to put the ball between the numbers and hit guys in perfect stride.

Spot on. Spot on.

Alex Smith + Urban Meyer = No NFL success.

Therefore Tim Tebow + Urban Meyer = No NFL success.

Completely ignoring the fact that Tim Tebow is by far the better player.

It has become cliche to over-criticize everything about a QB's mechanics when in reality quarterbacking is NOT pure science and IS somewhat of an art-form that in terms of ACTUALLY THROWING THE BALL the #1 objective is to get it to your target. Tebow does that. In the SEC. Alex Smith did it in the Mountain West and one time against Pitt (And half of his yards came from Steve Savoy breaking screens).

Again, I'm not a stats guy at all, but you can't overlook complete domination of the SEC. Tebow has done everything and more to warrant high draft consideration. If he shows anywhere near decent or even correctable mechanics at his pro day, he'll go in the first round.

The play that did it for me was the slant to seal the game last week. That's a stick throw that only good QUARTERBACKS make.

Sniper
12-12-2008, 11:49 AM
Spot on. Spot on.

Alex Smith + Urban Meyer = No NFL success.

Therefore Tim Tebow + Urban Meyer = No NFL success.

But for some people, this somehow works.

David Greene and D.J Shockley + Mark Richt= No NFL success

Matt Stafford + Mark Richt = NFL GREATNESSES!!!!!!!!!

bored of education
12-12-2008, 11:58 AM
But for some people, this somehow works.

David Greene and D.J Shockley + Mark Richt= No NFL success

Matt Stafford + Mark Richt = NFL GREATNESSES!!!!!!!!!

I see where you are comming from. But comparing Alex Smith to Tebow in a gimmicky offense is much closer to comparing Stafford to Green and DJ.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-12-2008, 11:59 AM
Spot on. Spot on.

Alex Smith + Urban Meyer = No NFL success.

Therefore Tim Tebow + Urban Meyer = No NFL success.

Completely ignoring the fact that Tim Tebow is by far the better player.

It has become cliche to over-criticize everything about a QB's mechanics when in reality quarterbacking is NOT pure science and IS somewhat of an art-form that in terms of ACTUALLY THROWING THE BALL the #1 objective is to get it to your target. Tebow does that. In the SEC. Alex Smith did it in the Mountain West and one time against Pitt (And half of his yards came from Steve Savoy breaking screens).

Again, I'm not a stats guy at all, but you can't overlook complete domination of the SEC. Tebow has done everything and more to warrant high draft consideration. If he shows anywhere near decent or even correctable mechanics at his pro day, he'll go in the first round.

The play that did it for me was the slant to seal the game last week. That's a stick throw that only good QUARTERBACKS make.

We'll see who is right when he's in the NFL lead blocking or getting short yardage carries.


Unless he stays one more year and continues to work on his passing, because yes, at time he is spot on, but at times he misses terribly. QBs need consistency.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-12-2008, 12:00 PM
I see where you are comming from. But comparing Alex Smith to Tebow in a gimmicky offense is much closer to comparing Stafford to Green and DJ.

So very, very different.

JetMan
12-12-2008, 12:27 PM
Tebow to the Jets in round one? They should be picking relatively late, have Brett Favor for a few more years (probably) and their other needs, while certainly real, aren't glaring (hence the relatively luxurious projection of a running back in round one).

believe it or not, the jets are really high on Brett Ratliff, and they still have Clemens and newly suspended Ainge also. so i don't really think we need another qb that we have to develope. i would love to see him play fb for us though. great kid and richardson is getting old.

giantsfan
12-12-2008, 01:32 PM
Unless he stays one more year and continues to work on his passing, because yes, at time he is spot on, but at times he misses terribly. QBs need consistency.

Staying another year will only ingrain the urban meyer way of reading a defense and make him even more of a project, he's shown he can tweak his mechanics and improve from it, I think that a team with a good staff is going to grab him late day one and they very well might end up with the most prolific QB from this draft.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-12-2008, 04:43 PM
that last part is just wrong, vince's release was quicker but that was the only thing he even did as well as tebow as a passer.

Young threw the ball better than Tebow. It came out quick, came out cleaner, he was able to actually put touch on the ball, and he did do those timing routes somewhat at Texas, something I don't think I've ever seen Tebow do much of.

Halsey
12-12-2008, 04:56 PM
But for some people, this somehow works.

David Greene and D.J Shockley + Mark Richt= No NFL success

Matt Stafford + Mark Richt = NFL GREATNESSES!!!!!!!!!

Only simple minded fans think that every QB that plays at the same school is the same player. Fans with brain cells can look at different players as individuals, regardless of what school they went to. Peyton Manning was not Heath Schuler, Ryan Leaf was not Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady and Drew Henson are not the same player, Aaron Rodgers is not the same as Kyle Boller, etc, etc. Acting as if two players from the same school or system are just alike doesn't hold water in reality.

Babylon
12-12-2008, 05:27 PM
Only simple minded fans think that every QB that plays at the same school is the same player. Fans with brain cells can look at different players as individuals, regardless of what school they went to. Peyton Manning was not Heath Schuler, Ryan Leaf was not Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady and Drew Henson are not the same player, Aaron Rodgers is not the same as Kyle Boller, etc, etc. Acting as if two players from the same school or system are just alike doesn't hold water in reality.

Can i add John Parker Wilson isnt Joe Namath, Ken Stabler or Richard Todd. It's always a good day when you can go down Bama memory lane.

JRTPlaya21
12-12-2008, 05:47 PM
Can i add John Parker Wilson isnt Joe Namath, Ken Stabler or Richard Todd. It's always a good day when you can go down Bama memory lane.

Don't forget Bart Starr. BTW positive rep for anyone who knows how to shrink that signature.

SKim172
12-12-2008, 06:26 PM
If I'm a team with depth at receiver, a good starter at QB who's starting to get up there in years, a solid backup QB so I don't have to rely on the rookie, and an excellent coaching and training staff and Tebow's available in the second day and I have no other needs at that value, I'd take him as a project. Work on him for a year or two, then evaluate whether or not I can make something of him. If the answer's yes at QB, then continue working with him with the goal of making him into an eventual backup or starter. If it's obviously early on the guy's not gonna get it, then see if he's got some other area he can fit. Treat him like a late-round sleeper that's also a media attraction. Kind of like Colt Brennan in Washington.

At this point, I'd say the Colts fit that description.

Malaka
12-12-2008, 06:35 PM
Don't forget Bart Starr. BTW positive rep for anyone who knows how to shrink that signature.

Go to tinypic.com, no rep necessary.

giantsfan
12-12-2008, 08:23 PM
Young threw the ball better than Tebow. It came out quick, came out cleaner, he was able to actually put touch on the ball, and he did do those timing routes somewhat at Texas, something I don't think I've ever seen Tebow do much of.

As I said Young had a much quicker release, but he didn't show better touch than tebow, Tim gets a lot of open simple reads, but he also hits guys in stride a lot, touch isn't one of my concerns with TT, that and he's able to be an impact player in college even when he limits his running, whereas if you could limit Vince to the pocket, impossible in college, he wouldn't do as nearly as much.

BBIB
12-13-2008, 11:43 AM
I see where you are comming from. But comparing Alex Smith to Tebow in a gimmicky offense is much closer to comparing Stafford to Green and DJ.

Actually one could make the argument that Greene and Shockley is much closer considering that it was not only the same system but the same conference and school. And it's multiple guys!

Same with Oklahoma with Jason WHite, Heupel, etc. We're talking same system, same school.

At least with Tebow it's not multiple guys we're talking about and it's a completely different school and conference.


But of course it would be unfair to compare Bradford to Oklahoma QBs in the same system. Just like it would be unfair to compare Stafford to UGA QBs in teh same system. Each guy deserves to be evaluated based on their own merit.

But when there is an agenda, some guys are held to specific standards to meet that agenda

As I said Young had a much quicker release, but he didn't show better touch than tebow, Tim gets a lot of open simple reads, but he also hits guys in stride a lot, touch isn't one of my concerns with TT, that and he's able to be an impact player in college even when he limits his running, whereas if you could limit Vince to the pocket, impossible in college, he wouldn't do as nearly as much.

Not to mention an incredible amount of VY's throws went to TEs and RBs. He made a lot simpler reads than Tebow in college. And again it was only that one year where he even looked decent as a passer at the NCAA level.

When he was throwing it to his receiver, Limas Sweed was constantly making circus catches.


Seriously for people to compare the two is laughable