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View Full Version : Jeremy Maclin vs. Dez Bryant


JaxJag_1
12-06-2008, 08:11 AM
Now both are Sophomore WR's, but Maclin is eligible and Bryant is not, I know that, but between the two who do you think is going to be the better player in the NFL?

renegade
12-06-2008, 08:28 AM
Dez Bryant, but I think Maclin will be good as well. I think Dez is going to have a bigger impact for a team because he is an all around WR and plays like Larry Fitzgerald while I personally believe that Maclin is more of a deep threat that will make huge plays but won't really get the tough yards and I think he could be a great #2 WR.

jnew76
12-06-2008, 11:24 AM
Bryant is the more prototypical NFL WR. The only thing that concerns me is that he has not shown up in every game consistently.

The best thing about Maclin is his acceleration. No one except for maybe Demps (FLA) get to top speed faster with the ball in their hand.

regoob2
12-06-2008, 11:43 AM
Bryant. He's powerful has much better hands. Great ball skills.

SuperKevin
12-06-2008, 01:12 PM
Dez Bryant by far. He's shown the ability to be a much bigger threat in the red zone while Maclin is a yards after catch kind of guy. Neither is a bad choice though

MetSox17
12-06-2008, 03:43 PM
I'd take Dez any day. He's just so beastly. Big, strong, fast, good hands. Only reason he didn't come play for a bigger school was because he was too dumb to get in.

Sniper
12-06-2008, 03:47 PM
Is this a serious thread?

Dez Bryant, all day, every day.

Habibi
12-06-2008, 04:07 PM
Bryant is the more prototypical NFL WR. The only thing that concerns me is that he has not shown up in every game consistently.

The best thing about Maclin is his acceleration. No one except for maybe Demps (FLA) get to top speed faster with the ball in their hand.

Skeptics had the same questions about Calvin Johnson. A WR can only go as well as his QB. Their production are directly linked.

As far as the OP is concerned, Dez Bryant by a mile. In fact, Dez Bryant will be better than Michael Crabtree in the pros.

SenorGato
12-06-2008, 04:09 PM
Is this a serious thread?

Dez Bryant, all day, every day.

QFMFT.

Theres no argument here...

The WR's coming out in the next few years are just un-friggin-believable.

CashmoneyDrew
12-06-2008, 04:21 PM
Skeptics had the same questions about Calvin Johnson. A WR can only go as well as his QB. Their production are directly linked.


Zac Robinson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reggie Ball.

ChezPower4
12-06-2008, 05:01 PM
Bryant, he's got the total package the good size, speed and he can make plays on the ball that remind me of Larry Fitz.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 06:22 PM
If Bryant was eligible, he's be my top wideout. I like Maclin, perhaps more than Crabtree (with all factors considered), but Bryant is a head above him.

regoob2
12-06-2008, 06:27 PM
If Bryant was eligible, he's be my top wideout. I like Maclin, perhaps more than Crabtree (with all factors considered), but Bryant is a head above him.
What factors?

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 06:30 PM
What factors?

Sometimes I love what I see from Crabtree, but sometimes it worries a lot. That Texas Tech offense gives him favorable matchups and tons of space to work with all the time, and when he draws a harder matchup he doesn't tend to work all that hard. You can usually tell from his body language when the ball isn't going to come his way. Oklahoma was one of the few defenses that was able to bully him and he flat out looked like he gave up. He doesn't run particularly good routes and way more importantly I'm not sure I see the evidence of the work ethic to improve that aspect of the game.

I love the physical talent, but there's no doubt that Crabtree is working his way down my list. I think he's a huge risk for busting.

regoob2
12-06-2008, 06:32 PM
Sometimes I love what I see from Crabtree, but sometimes it worries a lot. That Texas Tech offense gives him favorable matchups and tons of space to work with all the time, and when he draws a harder matchup he doesn't tend to work all that hard. You can usually tell from his body language when the ball isn't going to come his way. Oklahoma was one of the few defenses that was able to bully him and he flat out looked like he gave up. He doesn't run particularly good routes and way more importantly I'm not sure I see the evidence of the work ethic to improve that aspect of the game.

I love the physical talent, but there's no doubt that Crabtree is working his way down my list. I think he's a huge risk for busting.Wouldnt you say the same thing about Maclin?

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 06:43 PM
Wouldnt you say the same thing about Maclin?

What? No. I said some pretty specific things about Crabtree there, and I don't think a single one applies to Maclin. Maclin doesn't round off routes. Maclin doesn't play a power receiving game and then get outpowered and stop trying.

Maclin might not have a high a ceiling as a receiving option, but has far fewer bad habits than Crabtree and seems to work harder on his game (funny how the two go together). Not to mention the return value. Crabtree could be a stud in the NFL, but his game needs a lot of work to get there, and I don't see the ethic out on the field that would cause me to think he's got a great shot of getting to that point. I wouldn't dream of investing top 10 guaranteed money in Crabtree and I would absolutely consider dropping top 20 money on Maclin.

regoob2
12-06-2008, 06:49 PM
What? No. I said some pretty specific things about Crabtree there, and I don't think a single one applies to Maclin. Maclin doesn't round off routes. Maclin doesn't play a power receiving game and then get outpowered and stop trying.

Maclin might not have a high a ceiling as a receiving option, but has far fewer bad habits than Crabtree and seems to work harder on his game (funny how the two go together). Not to mention the return value. Crabtree could be a stud in the NFL, but his game needs a lot of work to get there, and I don't see the ethic out on the field that would cause me to think he's got a great shot of getting to that point. I wouldn't dream of investing top 10 guaranteed money in Crabtree and I would absolutely consider dropping top 20 money on Maclin.lol. You can have Maclin, I'll take Crabtree.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2008, 06:57 PM
Sometimes I love what I see from Crabtree, but sometimes it worries a lot. That Texas Tech offense gives him favorable matchups and tons of space to work with all the time, and when he draws a harder matchup he doesn't tend to work all that hard. You can usually tell from his body language when the ball isn't going to come his way. Oklahoma was one of the few defenses that was able to bully him and he flat out looked like he gave up. He doesn't run particularly good routes and way more importantly I'm not sure I see the evidence of the work ethic to improve that aspect of the game.

I love the physical talent, but there's no doubt that Crabtree is working his way down my list. I think he's a huge risk for busting.

I disagree with alot of this, most of the time, no scratch that, all the time defenses roll coverages towards Crabtree so I don't know about favorable match-ups...To me favorable match-ups are what Crabtree gives to all those other Tech WR's on the field.


As far as route running I highly doubt you will find many who run crisper routes, he comes in and out of breaks incredibly quick, for a guy his size he's very crafty with the ball, reminds me of Cris Carter...Catches everything with his hands away from his body, the presence of mind to catch the winning catch vs Texas and know where the sideline was and have the body control to stay in bounds, can take a slant to the house, acceleration is second to none, I don't see the huge bust risk that your seeing.


I don't get the whole "evidence of work ethic", that makes zero sense to me because you seem to be forgetting this guy was a High School QB for four years in High School, how the heck do you think he got so good at WR in 3 years? Sorry, but if your not busting your ass and working at it there is no way he would be having the success he's having...His route running has gotten significantly better and you can only imagine how far it's came since he red shirted.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 07:07 PM
I'm sorry, but the Crabtree "hesistate and go move" coming off the line of scrimmage won't work in the NFL like he wants. Crabtree gets to outmuscle most college corners with ease, but when he can't he tends to trot out the rest of route. Can Crabtree run good routes? Hell yes, I never said he wasn't physically talented. Does he? Not as far as I can tell.

This isn't an always thing I'm talking about, because if it was he obviously wouldn't be so productive. But Crabtree has so much going for him. That offense, that quarterback, that physical speed and strength. He operates at a much higher level than most college defenders. What worries me is what I see when that gap between him and his competition draws a little closer. If he doesn't get his man off the line right away, he doesn't put out as high an effort. If he knows the ball isn't coming his way, he doesn't bother to get off the line as well. When Oklahoma was hitting him in the mouth, he flat out gave up on a couple passes.

What has happened occasionally this season to Crabtree is going to happen to him every single week in the NFL. He's going to go from faster than average to slower than average. He's going to go from relatively awesome physically to relatively above average. And he's going to have to craft his NFL career out of the little stuff. He has a great natural feel for the position. He catches the ball really well. He is great with the ball in his hands. He has everything; but when I see him challenged on the field, I don't see the response.

The worst thing you can when scouting players is ignore the warning signs in physically exceptional players, because we all know that they bust just like everyone else. Crabtree worries me. I'm not going to try and make a case to anyone over it, because much of it is a gut feeling based off the little things I see him do on the field. But he worries me and I wouldn't pick him in the top 10.

Bruce Banner
12-06-2008, 07:12 PM
Crabtree's yards per catch average scares me.

maybe he would have a higher average if he did more than catch screens!

regoob2
12-06-2008, 07:15 PM
Crabtree's yards per catch average scares me.

maybe he would have a higher average if he did more than catch screens!
He catches a lot of TDs within the 5-10 yard line.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 07:33 PM
I never buy the YPC argument. It's so circumstantial and often has very little to do with the player's actual ability.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2008, 07:33 PM
I'm sorry, but the Crabtree "hesistate and go move" coming off the line of scrimmage won't work in the NFL like he wants. Crabtree gets to outmuscle most college corners with ease, but when he can't he tends to trot out the rest of route. Can Crabtree run good routes? Hell yes, I never said he wasn't physically talented. Does he? Not as far as I can tell.

This isn't an always thing I'm talking about, because if it was he obviously wouldn't be so productive. But Crabtree has so much going for him. That offense, that quarterback, that physical speed and strength. He operates at a much higher level than most college defenders. What worries me is what I see when that gap between him and his competition draws a little closer. If he doesn't get his man off the line right away, he doesn't put out as high an effort. If he knows the ball isn't coming his way, he doesn't bother to get off the line as well. When Oklahoma was hitting him in the mouth, he flat out gave up on a couple passes.

What has happened occasionally this season to Crabtree is going to happen to him every single week in the NFL. He's going to go from faster than average to slower than average. He's going to go from relatively awesome physically to relatively above average. And he's going to have to craft his NFL career out of the little stuff. He has a great natural feel for the position. He catches the ball really well. He is great with the ball in his hands. He has everything; but when I see him challenged on the field, I don't see the response.

The worst thing you can when scouting players is ignore the warning signs in physically exceptional players, because we all know that they bust just like everyone else. Crabtree worries me. I'm not going to try and make a case to anyone over it, because much of it is a gut feeling based off the little things I see him do on the field. But he worries me and I wouldn't pick him in the top 10.


Fair enough, but I wouldn't take him in the top 10 either, I just don't think he's a guy who will bust and has done just about as much as he can possibly do...I've seen at least half of his games and I've seen a nice arsenal of moves to beat a DB, and anybody who can run after the catch the way he can I feel like will have an easier transition...I love how he catches the ball in traffic more then anything, he doesn't drop many passes either.

Habibi
12-06-2008, 07:33 PM
Zac Robinson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reggie Ball.

You're missing the point. Zac Robinson had games where he's thrown for 193 yards, 82 yards, 186 yards, 199 yards, and 182 yards. He's not immune from bad games, and in turn, Dez Bryant's game-to-game production is affected. Regardless, Dez Bryant's numbers on the season are outstanding - 74 catches, 1313 yards, and 18 TDs.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 08:04 PM
Fair enough, but I wouldn't take him in the top 10 either, I just don't think he's a guy who will bust and has done just about as much as he can possibly do...I've seen at least half of his games and I've seen a nice arsenal of moves to beat a DB, and anybody who can run after the catch the way he can I feel like will have an easier transition...I love how he catches the ball in traffic more then anything, he doesn't drop many passes either.

Yeah, there's nothing physical holding Crabtree back. But I made a similar case against Vernon Gholston before last year's draft and was widely lambasted for it. In an ideal world, every player would take full advantage of their physical tools and would craft an fluid approach to the game that rarely failed them. In the real world, plenty of amazingly talented players don't do this.

ChezPower4
12-06-2008, 08:41 PM
I agree with PMD I think that Bryant is a better WR prospect than Carbtree and Maclin. Both guys have the tools to be good but Byrant reminds me a lot of a yound Andre Johnson.

Monomach
12-06-2008, 10:25 PM
Benn >>>>>>>Bryant>Crabtree>Heyward-Bey>Britt>Maclin

Hines
12-06-2008, 10:28 PM
Benn >>>>>>>Bryant>Crabtree>Heyward-Bey>Britt>Maclin

Julio Jones>Benn>Crabtree>Bryant>AJ Green>Maclin>DHB>Britt

JaxJag_1
12-29-2008, 09:46 AM
Bryant>Crabtree>Benn>DHB>Maclin>Jones>AJ Green>Britt

SeanTaylorRIP
12-29-2008, 10:00 AM
Benn>Crabtree>Bryant>DHB>Jones>Maclin

Iamcanadian
12-29-2008, 10:11 AM
You're missing the point. Zac Robinson had games where he's thrown for 193 yards, 82 yards, 186 yards, 199 yards, and 182 yards. He's not immune from bad games, and in turn, Dez Bryant's game-to-game production is affected. Regardless, Dez Bryant's numbers on the season are outstanding - 74 catches, 1313 yards, and 18 TDs.

Check out his stats in big games. He disappears in big games and that raises serious questions for me. However, he'll have all next year to improve in those stats.

regoob2
12-29-2008, 10:18 AM
I'm not sure how this is a thread. Dez Bryant is much better than Maclin.

Iamcanadian
12-29-2008, 10:23 AM
Crabtree worries me a lot and I wouldn't touch him with a top 10 pick. It has been reported that his 40 time is mediocre and when you look at his 12.2 yards per catch, you have to ask yourself, can this guy be effective on deep patterns or is he only a possession receiver. If I'm drafting top 10, I want a WR who can do it all and IMO, Crabtree may be nothing more than a very effective short pattern receiver.
Now, having said that, I love his other skills and believe he will be effective in the NFL but I just don't see him as a guy who can go deep for an NFL team against CB's who have elite speed. .1 equates to 3 feet and even if he manages a 4.55 vs CB's who run in the 4.35-4.4 range, he is giving up any chance to get deep effectively and if he runs a 4.60, he is giving up 6 feet on a deep pattern.
I believe strongly that he will slide on draft day to somewhere in the late teens or early 20's. Still a first rounder but not an elite player.

tjsunstein
12-29-2008, 10:27 AM
Not really sure how you can say that Bryant dissapears in big games. It's not like he can throw the ball to himself. You look at targets and catches. If the QB doesn't throw the ball his way, what do you want him to do? If he drops passes than that's a different story.

And Bryant is far better than Maclin as a prospect and you'll se that when Bryant declares.

Flyboy
12-29-2008, 05:30 PM
Crabtree will be a Saint. :)

tjsunstein
12-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Crabtree will be a Saint. :)

That would be very dangerous.

HorusKing
12-30-2008, 01:55 AM
Dez Bryant hands down.

SuperKevin
12-30-2008, 11:22 AM
Crabtree worries me a lot and I wouldn't touch him with a top 10 pick. It has been reported that his 40 time is mediocre and when you look at his 12.2 yards per catch, you have to ask yourself, can this guy be effective on deep patterns or is he only a possession receiver. If I'm drafting top 10, I want a WR who can do it all and IMO, Crabtree may be nothing more than a very effective short pattern receiver.
Now, having said that, I love his other skills and believe he will be effective in the NFL but I just don't see him as a guy who can go deep for an NFL team against CB's who have elite speed. .1 equates to 3 feet and even if he manages a 4.55 vs CB's who run in the 4.35-4.4 range, he is giving up any chance to get deep effectively and if he runs a 4.60, he is giving up 6 feet on a deep pattern.
I believe strongly that he will slide on draft day to somewhere in the late teens or early 20's. Still a first rounder but not an elite player.

They threw a lot of screen passes to Crabtree which drastically lowered his ypc

the decider13
12-30-2008, 11:28 AM
Dez Byrant for sure...he'll be a great pro.

AtariBigby
12-30-2008, 11:35 AM
Dez Bryant will have a much better NFL career.
I think Bryant will be better than Crabtree in the NFL.
DB is a stud.

Good thread topic.