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Texas Homer
12-06-2008, 10:00 PM
After watching him today, no doubt he is very good and talented, but I found myself wondering if he might be a better fit for OG in the NFL(ala Leonard Davis).

Thoughts?

Babylon
12-06-2008, 10:03 PM
After watching him today, no doubt he is very good and talented, but I found myself wondering if he might be a better fit for OG in the NFL(ala Leonard Davis).

Thoughts?

He's a few quarter pounders from being a guard from the looks of things but i think he's the top OT this year. He isnt in the same class of a Walter Jones or a Joe Thomas but i think he's a fairly safe pick.

619
12-06-2008, 10:06 PM
Safe pick in the sense he's a pro bowl calibur player somewhere on the line. He could work out well at tackle but personally I'd prefer him inside ala Shawn Andrews.

djp
12-06-2008, 10:12 PM
Just not understanding the problems with his height.

He's dominated every single opponent he's played this year at LT and there's no reason for him to switch.

fenikz
12-06-2008, 10:16 PM
Just not understanding the problems with his height.

He's dominated every single opponent he's played this year at LT and there's no reason for him to switch.

Truly he hasn't, when it comes to faster DE's he seems to have trouble keeping the edge, if he were to play inside at guard this would never be an issue but on the NFL level vs the Ware's, Merrimen's & Freeney's of the world he would be exposed

sbh15
12-06-2008, 10:19 PM
I'm a little confused why after probably the most dominating performance I've seen from him all year, so many people are touting him as a guard. He got beat maybe one play by Brandon Spikes who timed the snap perfectly on the play (he might have actually been offsides on it)...

abaddon41_80
12-06-2008, 10:20 PM
I think he could be a Pro Bowl left tackle but why not switch to right tackle or guard and be a Hall of Famer? :)

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 10:22 PM
Truly he hasn't, when it comes to faster DE's he seems to have trouble keeping the edge, if he were to play inside at guard this would never be an issue but on the NFL level vs the Ware's, Merrimen's & Freeney's of the world he would be exposed

I'm not too sure about that. During tonights game they had Spikes rushing the edge against him and Brandon got a fantastic start (I almost thought he was offsides when Caldwell snapped the ball) and Smith got to the edge, got a piece of him, and easily drove him past Wilson. And he made what should have been a near impossible play for a man his size look easy.

Honestly, I think that I have more concerns about Smith keep his control and balance in the run game than I do about him being able to meet pass rushers at the edge. You'll notice that he tends to fling his frame into guys, which makes him vulnerable to them pulling a bull-fighter move on him.

edit - I will admit that his handwork might not fare that well against defensive ends that do a great job of keeping the o-linemen's hands off them. It helps that he's so strong, but eventually he'll have to get better at the hand battle. But I have very little concerns about his ability to hit the edge against some of these guys.

Xiomera
12-06-2008, 10:29 PM
Smith is gonna win the Heisman. No doubt.

ThePudge
12-06-2008, 10:34 PM
He proved today that speed rushers weren't a problem. People see his height and weight and say he'll have trouble at the next level, but he is an absolute dominator. He started the season strong against Clemson's pass-rushers and ended the season just as strong against Dunlap, Cunningham, and Brandon Spikes. Those three are not bull-rushers, they rely mostly on speed and athleticism as pass-rushers and he nullified every single one of them.

There was one play that Smith looked beat, but he recovered well. In fact, every time it looked like Smith may be beat, he recovered with his feet and agility. When run-blocking, Andre is a punisher and he gets to the second level as well as anyone I've seen. A natural Tackle, why move him?

619
12-06-2008, 10:44 PM
The thing is we all thought the same pretty much about Gallery a few years back but once he actually went up against those speed edge rushers it was an utter disaster until he finally moved inside. I don't want to hold that against Smith because they are two very different prospects though it still leaves me hesitant at least until I see him more in the offseason evaluations if he does come out.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-06-2008, 10:46 PM
The problem is that we're not going to see Smith participate in the Senior Bowl blocking drills, which is really disappointing. That said, people never quite remember how much Gallery swelled and how undisciplined his game got. It wasn't that his Iowa playing level was a farce, it's that he fell apart as a player. Why, I'm not entirely sure, but unless we have some evidence that Smith can't mentally handle playing tackle in the NFL, I don't think he warrants a comparison to Gallery.

illmatic74
12-06-2008, 11:07 PM
The problem is that we're not going to see Smith participate in the Senior Bowl blocking drills, which is really disappointing. That said, people never quite remember how much Gallery swelled and how undisciplined his game got. It wasn't that his Iowa playing level was a farce, it's that he fell apart as a player. Why, I'm not entirely sure, but unless we have some evidence that Smith can't mentally handle playing tackle in the NFL, I don't think he warrants a comparison to Gallery. Playing for the Raiders will do that for you

Halsey
12-06-2008, 11:09 PM
Some people were asking if Jake Long would be better as a guard last year. Just because Robert Gallery got moved to guard doesn't mean every other top OT prospect will.

619
12-06-2008, 11:16 PM
Some people were asking if Jake Long would be better as a guard last year. Just because Robert Gallery got moved to guard doesn't mean every other top OT prospect will.

I probably would have likened Long last year to Gallery moreso than Smith who I'm not drawing that comparison for at all. So far Long's certainly proven me wrong though as a LT. I just can't get away from the height / weight factor for Smith and it's a shame we won't be able to watch him compete in the Senior Bowl practices which is always a critical evaluation for scouts especially those blocking drills.

Vox Populi
12-06-2008, 11:52 PM
Some people were asking if Jake Long would be better as a guard last year. Just because Robert Gallery got moved to guard doesn't mean every other top OT prospect will.

No one called Long a guard... They called him a sure thing pro bowl RT, not a guard though.

BPhilb
12-07-2008, 12:02 AM
I watched Smith a lot today because I was anxious to see how he would handle the speed of the Florida D. I came away extremley impressed and as of right now I would be shocked if he wasn't a top 3 pick. I'm really hoping he can come to Kansas City right now and team up with Brandon Albert and nearly complete the rebuilding of our OLine.

BigBanger
12-07-2008, 01:09 AM
This was actually the least impressed I've been with Smith all year. Dunlap was slapping his hands away nearly every time he used any kind of technique. I now question his length and punch along with his upper body strength and hand placement. It's also been a while since I've seen him dominate in the running game. I've seen Long dominate the run. I've seen Otah dominate the running game. I can honestly say I've never seen Smith hold his blocks consistently as those guys do or ever did. I think he has the biggest bust potential of the tackle prospects. As a guard, he could be elite.

I've heard people say his size is in question... we'll this was the first time I seen it. He was off balanced nearly all the game and looked rather sloppy at times. They never really attacked him that much, though. Spikes beat him on the edge once, but the reason why has already been stated, and he wasn't off sides. Spikes also threw him and Caldwell around on a few plays (Absolutely pancaked Caldwell on one running play). Spikes is actually a monster. He can play ILB or OLB in a 3-4 and the MIKE in a 4-3. He's also improving against the pass and looks good in coverage. His stock should be on the rise, and a top 15 pick shouldn't be out of the question since so many defenses will be looking at him.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-07-2008, 01:19 AM
Spikes beat him off the line, but considering that Spikes never even managed to get within arms length of Wilson should show that he didn't beat Smith. Smith got one arm on him and blew him away from the play.

I completely agree that Smith has the tendency to lose his balance in the run blocking game, but it confuses me that you think that means he should be a guard. If anything, the fact that he kept Dunlap and Spikes mostly nullified in the pass game should solidify him at tackle even more.

BigBanger
12-07-2008, 01:50 AM
Spikes beat him off the line, but considering that Spikes never even managed to get within arms length of Wilson should show that he didn't beat Smith. Smith got one arm on him and blew him away from the play.

I completely agree that Smith has the tendency to lose his balance in the run blocking game, but it confuses me that you think that means he should be a guard. If anything, the fact that he kept Dunlap and Spikes mostly nullified in the pass game should solidify him at tackle even more.
Wilson threw the ball well before he wanted to due to the pressure form Spikes. If you think Spikes was blown away by Smith, then go ahead. I wont debate it with you.

Spikes also beat him on another play where he did get a hand on Wilson (Nearly horse collared him), but Wilson was hit by Dunlap and Cunningham as well in the chest as he was getting rid of the ball. He threw the ball away on that play. Smith was also killed on a stunt where he ended up holding (One of the DTs, I forgot who) the guy, but it was never called. The play resulted in a completion to Jones on the sideline.

He was beat multiple times in the game. He didn't give up sack, but Wilson felt quite a bit of pressure. He looks like a heavy legged waist bender-- to quote Mike Mayock (I don't know what Mayock thinks of him, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear him say that about him).

Julio Jones and Brandon Spikes looked, by far, like the best players on the field.

SenorGato
12-07-2008, 04:20 AM
I agree with BigBanger.

Wilson wasn't sacked, but Smith was beat more times than people will admit today. Dunlap really gave him trouble. Just because Wilson wasn't sacked doesn't mean there wasn't pressure.

I like Smith and all, but I don't see this end all be all prospect he's being treated as.

P-L
12-07-2008, 09:59 AM
I'm not sure what game some of you were watching, he dominated Carlos Dunlap pretty much the whole game. Dunlap might have got a couple pressures, but that's it.

RaiderNation
12-07-2008, 03:51 PM
Smith is going to be the 1st OT taken when he comes out. I expect him to come out this year and be a top 5 pick

TACKLE
12-07-2008, 04:08 PM
I love Andre Smith. I really like how he plays but I can't see him being very successful at LT in the NFL. People say he's quick and light on his feet. I hate to say it but those people are off. For his size he moves well but many people have the tendency when evaluating OT's to say they have quick feet because the see them kick-stepping and they are always moving there feet so it appears they have good feet. Smith is heavy on his feet and often gets beat but with his strength he's able to wash guys out but does allow fast DE's to get penetration up-field. I see him as an amazing college football player but a guy who might struggle at the next level if he stays at LT. I don't seem him as a Top 5 pick. Probably Top 15-20. Some team will fall in love with his film and his versatility but I don't see him being an elite LT at the next level. I hope he proves me wrong.

Scott Wright
12-07-2008, 04:12 PM
If Andre Smith were 6-5 instead of a shade under 6-4 would we be having this conversation?

For those who doubt Smith's ability to be a top-notch left tackle due to his lack of height or excess weight keep in mind that he is basically the same size as Jason Peter.

Babylon
12-07-2008, 04:43 PM
If Andre Smith were 6-5 instead of a shade under 6-4 would we be having this conversation?

For those who doubt Smith's ability to be a top-notch left tackle due to his lack of height or excess weight keep in mind that he is basically the same size as Jason Peter.

I think people's concerns are in the context of him going 1st or 2nd. He's going to be a good one but he doesnt necessarily pass the looks test.

Menardo75
12-07-2008, 09:01 PM
He will be the top OT in this years class or next years. Very good football player mauler with great feet. He really could play any spot, but he could be your franchise LT.

SenorGato
12-07-2008, 10:18 PM
He will be the top OT in this years class or next years. Very good football player mauler with great feet. He really could play any spot, but he could be your franchise LT.

This pretty much sums up that while Smith's supposed flaws can be significant, it's still really hard to not consider him an elite prospect. If he can handle LT, he'll be a sick one. If he can't, he'll be sick anywhere else.

MicktheGreat
12-08-2008, 08:24 PM
I've watched every single Alabama game this year and last year, so I've seen Andre Smith play a whole lot. I can completely see why people are hung up on his seeming lack of prototypical NFL size for a left-tackle; however, what alot of people don't realize is Smith's athleticism, which is really impressive -- allowing him to, more often than not, make up for his average size.

I think that Smith could have a long and productive career at left-tackle in the NFL and even make a few ProBowls -- though I don't think he'll be as consistently dominant at LT in the pros as he's been in college, given the ridiculous speed and athleticism of NFL pass-rushers.

HOWEVER, if Smith moved to right-tackle and stayed healthy, I think he could develop into a Hall-of-Fame quality player. He's THAT good at run-blocking and at getting to the second level of a defense.

I see Smith going as a top 10 pick -- probably top 5 (though I wouldn't be totally shocked if another OT jumped him after the combine). Regardless, whatever team gets Smith is going to get a good player who can play at LT, RT, or OG.

Just my $.02...

BigBanger
12-09-2008, 01:30 AM
If Andre Smith were 6-5 instead of a shade under 6-4 would we be having this conversation?

For those who doubt Smith's ability to be a top-notch left tackle due to his lack of height or excess weight keep in mind that he is basically the same size as Jason Peter.
I've never had a problem with Smiths height. Dunlap is a big, long and strong DE in a mold of Mario Williams or Julius Peppers (Not on their level obviously), and when he used his hands he caught Smith every time and beat him every time.

My biggest concern is not just his weight, but his strength, especially in his upper body. If he was 6'5'' then that would be great, but Mike Williams was huge and I thought he was as overrated as Philip Loadholt (A guy I wouldn't even draft and people think he's a first rounder).

I think Smith is simply overrated. Preseason people were down on him a bit and seen him as the third or fourth best tackle in the draft. I don't think much has changed. I would Oher over him because he's flat out better in every aspect. I would take Jason Smith due to his athletic ability and his great size / technique. I would much rather have Monroe and all that potential he has over Smith as well. He's a very good player. A first rounder, but to have the question marks that he has for a franchise LT... I just don't get it. If he goes in the top 5 and plays more like Robert Gallery than Jason Peters, I wont be surprised. I also consider Jason Peters a second tier LT, and a touch overrated (He plays in Buffalo, he can only get so much dap). I also wouldn't want to take Peters him in the top 5.

giantsfan
12-09-2008, 02:08 AM
Peters is having a horrible season in part due to missing the offseason and not coming in at full steam but last season he was pushing Roos and Joe Thomas for best LT in the AFC and possibly even whole NFL.

And I don't see how playing in buffalo has anything to do with this, if anything it'd make him under-rated due to how little hype he'd get playing for rarely on primetime bills.

Scott Wright
12-09-2008, 02:18 AM
I've got to take issue with a couple of things in this post:

Dunlap is a big, long and strong DE in a mold of Mario Williams or Julius Peppers (Not on their level obviously), and when he used his hands he caught Smith every time and beat him every time.

Every time? Considering Dunlap notched a grand total of 0 TFL and 0 Sacks against Smith I'd have to say those times were few and far between. From what I saw Smith did a terrific job against a very talented and athletic defensive line.

Maybe it's like Sex Panther... "60% of the Time, It Works Every Time"

I would (take) Oher over him because he's flat out better in every aspect.

You can't even compare Smith and Oher when it comes to run blocking.

Oher shows flashes but Smith is consistently dominant.

LonghornsLegend
12-09-2008, 02:27 AM
Peters is having a horrible season in part due to missing the offseason and not coming in at full steam but last season he was pushing Roos and Joe Thomas for best LT in the AFC and possibly even whole NFL.

And I don't see how playing in buffalo has anything to do with this, if anything it'd make him under-rated due to how little hype he'd get playing for rarely on primetime bills.



Joe Thomas has taken a huge step back this year, he's not the dominant LT he was last year anymore, at least Peters missed most of the off-season.


As far as Smith everytime I have seen him he has been dominant, what I loved the most is on a few run plays I saw him seal his man off and move up to the next level and seal off the second level...I don't think it's made up about him having great feet, he moves well for a guy his size.

giantsfan
12-09-2008, 02:30 AM
Joe Thomas has taken a huge step back this year, he's not the dominant LT he was last year anymore, at least Peters missed most of the off-season.

I was talking about last season where a lot of people felt Joe Thomas deserved mention as the best LT in the game. Personally I like Peters and Roos more and thought they were both more deserving.

Ozzy
12-09-2008, 09:12 AM
Andre sure did have some trouble with speed rushers in that game, Spikes took him for a ride a few times, did not end up in a sack but got right by him. Really not a huge deal though, I think he could easily become a guard if need be. And like it has been said before, he is such a good run blocker and is so powerful, too hard to pass up.

Sniper
12-09-2008, 09:28 AM
I'm not sure what game some of you were watching, he dominated Carlos Dunlap pretty much the whole game. Dunlap might have got a couple pressures, but that's it.

Thank you. I commented a couple of times in the gameday thread on how invisible Dunlap was during the game.