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Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 06:29 AM
I just made the new mock draft update live. You can link to it via the main page:

http://www.draftcountdown.com

As always constructive criticism is welcome but please be sure to give reasons and explainations behind your opinions. Unproductive posts will be deleted and infractions could be handed out.

SuperKevin
12-15-2008, 07:11 AM
Ha I knew the Robinson to Pittsburgh pick was coming out of spite

AkiliSmith
12-15-2008, 07:26 AM
I would have to buy a new television and probably replace a window if the Bengals picked Wells

Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 07:26 AM
Ha I knew the Robinson to Pittsburgh pick was coming out of spite

Not trying to tweak anyone, it just makes sense for them to take the best o-lineman available.

Look at the facts:

* Only four teams in the entire league have given up more sacks than Pittsburgh this year.

* The Steelers rank in the bottom third of the league in rushing.

* They lost Alan Faneca last offseason. Marvel Smith, Max Starks and Chris Kemoeatu are all hitting the open market this year.

* They have drafted two offensive guards in round one in the last decade.

Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 07:27 AM
I would have to buy a new television and probably replace a window if the Bengals picked Wells

I think the Bengals would be lucky to get Wells.

He is a stud. A legit Top 5-10 overall pick.

AkiliSmith
12-15-2008, 07:28 AM
I think the Bengals would be lucky to get Wells.

He is a stud. A legit Top 5-10 overall pick.
But behind the joke of an offensive line he would get hurt the first week and average 2.7 yards per carry

I would rather them draft Monroe or reach for Maualuga. Maybe even Orakpo to help fix one of the NFL's worst pass rushes.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 07:32 AM
I would have to buy a new television and probably replace a window if the Bengals picked Wells

Personally, I'd be happy. We do need another starting LT alongside Collins who should be at RT next year, but we really do need a starting RB, and another speed RB later on to replace Perry. Benson has been better than I expected, but what's he going to do when he's not playing for a contract? Not to mention the Redskins D was just in complete disarray that first quarter when he had a couple big plays, and once they settled down he really didn't do much else. Jason Smith, however, is an interesting prospect and I wouldn't be suprised if we started to talk about him going to Cincy since Andre Smith should be gone by the first two picks.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 07:33 AM
But behind the joke of an offensive line he would get hurt the first week and average 2.7 yards per carry

I would rather them draft Monroe or reach for Maualuga. Maybe even Orakpo to help fix one of the NFL's worst pass rushes.

Dear God no. He doesn't even fit a 4-3. I'd rather have Jason Smith over Monroe as well.

Also, the whole "he gets hurt a lot" thing gets old. That's one thing you can't really predict. He's got immense talent and potential. He's worth the pick. Benson isn't the answer, and we can still build a strong OL later on.

AkiliSmith
12-15-2008, 07:36 AM
Dear God no. He doesn't even fit a 4-3. I'd rather have Jason Smith over Monroe as well.

Also, the whole "he gets hurt a lot" thing gets old. That's one thing you can't really predict. He's got immense talent and potential. He's worth the pick. Benson isn't the answer, and we can still build a strong OL later on.
Running back is extremely deep in this draft, especially once all the juniors start declaring. They could get a good one in round two or three.

I'm a huge Buckeyes fan, I have seen every game he has ever played in, and he gets hurt A LOT. Little injuries yes but he's had like 15 little injuries. You know the Bengals luck with injuries, especially Big Ten backs.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 07:39 AM
Running back is extremely deep in this draft, especially once all the juniors start declaring.

I'm a huge Buckeyes fan, I have seen every game he has ever played in, and he gets hurt A LOT. Little injuries yes but he's had like 15 little injuries. You know the Bengals luck with injuries, especially Big Ten backs.

Yeah, I'm an Ohio State fan too, and I'd still love to have him. I don't buy into the Bengals luck or the little injuries, he hasn't suffered any real serious ones except for the ankle injury at the beginning of this year, and that still wasn't an injury that did any severe damage. It doesn't concern me.

The draft is deep in RB's, but not studs like Beanie. Greene, Moreno, McCoy and Jennings are really the only other ones I see with Beanie's potential, maybe Davis as well. But our second rounder is going to need to be a Center in my mind, so that pretty much rules them all out as they should all be solid second rounders, meaning Greene may not even declare.

The depth is there later on for a new speed back to take Perry's spot, but not one to be the feature guy.

Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 07:46 AM
So if the Bengals use a Top 5 pick on a tackle explain to me where the following players go:

* 29-Year-Old former Pro Bowler Levi Jones who just signed a 6-year, $40 million extension two years ago.

* 27-Year-Old Stacy Andrews, who they thought enough of to put the franchise tag on less than a year ago.

* 23-Year-Old Anthony Collins, who looks like potential starting material.

So Bengal fans want to throw away two of those three talented, relatively young players who they have a ton of money invested in, then use a top draft pick on and pay another offensive lineman a $50 million contract rather than address one of their numerous other glaring needs.

Then again, I guess that does sound like the Bengals...

*** ADDITION ***

I'm certainly not saying the Bengals offensive line played well in 2008 because they didn't. However, at least they have some talent there and after already investing so many resources in the position it just doesn't make sense to use a Top 5 pick there. They have plenty of needs, they can't afford to be upgrading positions that aren't major problems.

It would be like Amy Winehouse going to rehab to stop drinking. Sure it would help but that's the least of her problems.

*** ADDITION ***

georgiafan
12-15-2008, 07:51 AM
So what makes you think Bradford will drop when Mcshay has him going #1?

Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 07:52 AM
So what makes you think Bradford will drop when Mcshay has him going #1?

No comment... :)

I still think Bradford could go in the Top 3-5 but if he gets by Detroit and Kansas City there isn't an obvious fit until San Francisco later in the Top 10.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 07:53 AM
So if the Bengals use a Top 5 pick on a tackle explain to me where the following players go:

* 29-Year-Old former Pro Bowler Levi Jones who just signed a 6-year, $40 million extension two years ago.

* 27-Year-Old Stacy Andrews, who they thought enough of to put the franchise tag on less than a year ago.

* 23-Year-Old Anthony Collins, who looks like potential starting material.

So Bengal fans want to throw away two of those three talented, relatively young players who they have a ton of money invested in, then use a top draft pick on and pay another offensive lineman a $50 million contract rather than address one of their numerous other glaring needs.

Then again, I guess that does sound like the Bengals...

Collins should be starting next year in my opinion. Andrews has been rather awful this year and he doesn't have the excuse of knee problems like Levi does. Plus, it's more likely they'd franchise TJ this year than Andrews, and Andrews doesn't want to be here. So, it's a good chance he walks. That leaves the RT spot open. Then there's Levi, who's knees are shot. Now, realistically I don't think we'll draft an OT on the first day, as Mike Brown will more than likely be content with Levi, but his knees really are just shot. If not this year, down the road we really need to begin looking for his replacement. We do have a bigger concern on the line as well at Center.

Also, that argument you made for not drafting an OT is the same argument I've been using to explain why they won't draft Orakpo. We should be looking at a pass rush specialist in the mid rounds though.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 07:56 AM
So what makes you think Bradford will drop when Mcshay has him going #1?

No comment... :)

I still think Bradford could go in the Top 3-5 but if he gets by Detroit and Kansas City there isn't an obvious fit until San Francisco later in the Top 10.

Lol. I think he said why in the mock.

I try not to invest too much into what McShay says, either...

AkiliSmith
12-15-2008, 07:59 AM
So if the Bengals use a Top 5 pick on a tackle explain to me where the following players go:

* 29-Year-Old former Pro Bowler Levi Jones who just signed a 6-year, $40 million extension two years ago.

* 27-Year-Old Stacy Andrews, who they thought enough of to put the franchise tag on less than a year ago.

* 23-Year-Old Anthony Collins, who looks like potential starting material.

So Bengal fans want to throw away two of those three talented, relatively young players who they have a ton of money invested in, then use a top draft pick on and pay another offensive lineman a $50 million contract rather than address one of their numerous other glaring needs.

Then again, I guess that does sound like the Bengals...

*** ADDITION ***

I'm certainly not saying the Bengals offensive line played well in 2008 because they didn't. However, at least they have some talent there and after already investing so many resources in the position it just doesn't make sense to use a Top 5 pick there. They have plenty of needs, they can't afford to be upgrading positions that aren't major problems.

It would be like Amy Winehouse going to rehab to stop drinking. Sure it would help but that's the least of her problems.

*** ADDITION ***

You obviously have not watched any Bengal games this season.

Levi Jones has been terrible for two consecutive seasons now. He cannot run or pass block. Yes he got a huge contract but he has never recovered from his knee injury.

Stacy Andrews has been beyond terrible. The Redskins game was the first game in which he was adequate at all. He is decent at run blocking because of his size but terrible in pass blocking.

I like Collins and I think he has a future starting somewhere on the line.

Offensive line is the biggest weakness on the team, any Bengals fan will tell you that.

Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 08:02 AM
You obviously have not watched any Bengal games this season.

Levi Jones has been terrible for two consecutive seasons now. He cannot run or pass block. Yes he got a huge contract but he has never recovered from his knee injury.

Stacy Andrews has been beyond terrible. The Redskins game was the first game in which he was adequate at all. He is decent at run blocking because of his size but terrible in pass blocking.

I like Collins and I think he has a future starting somewhere on the line.

Offensive line is the biggest weakness on the team, any Bengals fan will tell you that.

So offensive tackle is the greatest weakness on the entire Bengals team.

No Cedric Benson at running back.

Or Dhani Jones at linebacker.

I know it was one of their greatest weaknesses this year but if they went into 2009 with Jones, Andrews, Collins, Whitworth, etc. it would still be their #1 most glaring weakness?

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 08:02 AM
You obviously have not watched any Bengal games this season.

Levi Jones has been terrible for two consecutive seasons now. He cannot run or pass block. Yes he got a huge contract but he has never recovered from his knee injury.

Stacy Andrews has been beyond terrible. The Redskins game was the first game in which he was adequate at all. He is decent at run blocking because of his size but terrible in pass blocking.

I like Collins and I think he has a future starting somewhere on the line.

Offensive line is the biggest weakness on the team, any Bengals fan will tell you that.

Yes, but I think Scott is right in saying we won't, in the end, look at drafting a new LT since they did invest a lot in Levi. I do wonder what they think of Benson though. They can't possibly be happy with Perry.

Also, I had a thought about them maybe looking to Malcolm Jenkins to be our new FS since White wasn't exactly great when he was healthy, but I'd say a RB would be much more likely.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 08:04 AM
So offensive tackle is the greatest weakness on the entire Bengals team.

No Cedric Benson at running back.

Or Dhani Jones at linebacker.

Personally I like Dhani Jones, and would love to keep him starting on the strong side with a new MLB, and Jeanty providing strong depth.

Our biggest weakness imo is Center, followed by RB.

bored of education
12-15-2008, 08:05 AM
I like the Curry pick for KC. But I am wondering who would play MLB out of Williams, DJ, Curry, Edwards. Don't say Boiman or Pat Thomas now Mr. Wright. :)

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 08:10 AM
I'll say that if we're drafting 4th, and we have both Curry and Beanie sitting there with KC taking Bradford, I'd be thrilled to have either one. Plus, you're right about the depth akili, as both positions look strong on the first day, and we could take one position in the first, then the next position in the second... though I have a hard time imagining them not taking a good, hard look at a Center in the second, especially if Mack is sitting there. I'm a Caldwell fan myself, though.

DiG
12-15-2008, 08:11 AM
dont like the michael johnson pick at all but i understand it. i think johnson is too big a project and doesn't seem like a good fit in our defense. i also think that we will probably lose at least one more game and probably pick closer to the 10-14 range so hopefully we can snag a better prospect than johnson like oher, jason smith, and orakpo

bored of education
12-15-2008, 08:12 AM
So Scott, you going to give KC OL or a DE in the 2nd :)

T-RICH49
12-15-2008, 08:18 AM
I like Curry but our DE's have been non exsistent all year.8-9 sacks in 14 games speask for itself IMO

princefielder28
12-15-2008, 08:20 AM
Brian Orakpo is a perfect fit for Green Bay

I've watched quite a few Minnesota games this year, and while I agree they need to address the right side of their OL, I don't believe Max Unger is the answer. You bring up his versatility and athleticism, and that is impressive, but is there any concern with his lack of toughness? When I watch him he does not appear to be a smashmouth type offensive lineman, and he may not be that great of an improvement for the Vikings.

Iamcanadian
12-15-2008, 08:30 AM
In my last mock I had Cincy taking Wells at #2. It is a natural fit IMO. They simply have way too much money invested in their OL and will now have to live with it. I also think a change in the coaching staff might do wonders for their offense in general.
I disagree that Seattle will draft Crabtree, Bradford would be the selection in this scenerio although Wells might get serious consideration if Cincy passes on him. I'm not clear on what KC's intentions are about passing on Bradford.
I for one won't be shocked to see Crabtree drop significantly if he runs a slow 40 at the combine in the 4.60 range. I love the rest of his game but possession receivers don't get picked in the top 10 too often and his 12.2 yds per catch worries me as far as his ability to get deep. If I'm picking top 10, I'm not taking a slow WR who may have problems getting deep, I want a player I am completely sure of.

Iamcanadian
12-15-2008, 08:33 AM
You obviously have not watched any Bengal games this season.

Levi Jones has been terrible for two consecutive seasons now. He cannot run or pass block. Yes he got a huge contract but he has never recovered from his knee injury.

Stacy Andrews has been beyond terrible. The Redskins game was the first game in which he was adequate at all. He is decent at run blocking because of his size but terrible in pass blocking.

I like Collins and I think he has a future starting somewhere on the line.

Offensive line is the biggest weakness on the team, any Bengals fan will tell you that.

Then why did they pay these guys that type of money. Obviously the GM doesn't agree with you and he will be the guy doing the draft. He has too much money tied up in the OL to even consider taking another one. It just isn't going to happen.

Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 08:33 AM
I don't see Seattle taking a quarterback in round one.

I think they see themselves as a team that can bounce back and content in 2009. If you take Bradford you are rebuilding.

Iamcanadian
12-15-2008, 08:39 AM
That would be a sensational draft for Detroit. 2 great building blocks.

I know Cleveland needs a CB badly but they also need a pass rush, then again they could maybe find that pass rusher in round 2 although Everett Brown looks pretty good to me.

Tough call with Buffalo but I always say if you are running a Cover 2 system, DE's has to be addressed otherwise your defense will stink, so I tend to think that is the direction they go.

Iamcanadian
12-15-2008, 08:46 AM
I don't see Seattle taking a quarterback in round one.

I think they see themselves as a team that can bounce back and content in 2009. If you take Bradford you are rebuilding.

I don't know but if that is what they are thinking I'd say they are crazy. You said it yourself, if you don't have a franchise QB, you never pass on one. Of course I have some doubts about Bradford but not enough to pass on him. This is their opportunity to set themselves up for the next decade. I'd go either WR or RB in round 2 and take my shot at Bradford if the opportunity presented itself.
This team isn't going back to the SB with its current roster even with an upgrade or 2 but if Bradford develops, they will be a serious contender in the future.

georgiafan
12-15-2008, 08:50 AM
I don't see Seattle taking a quarterback in round one.

I think they see themselves as a team that can bounce back and content in 2009. If you take Bradford you are rebuilding.

Thats true espically in the NFC west which is so awful. I think you could make a good case that they should draft a QB. They are rarely drafting in the top 10 and Hasselbeck was hurt most of the year and is past his prime. If they have a chance to draft a franchise QB you have to strongly think about it since you won't be drafting this high anytime soon. They would also be no pressure for him to start year 1 and they will have a new coach.

Iamcanadian
12-15-2008, 09:11 AM
Just a few other comments.

I'd love to see Detroit get Brown but I really doubt he falls to their pick. Arizona could take him and look for a RB in round 2. That's what I would do in their case. If Cleveland takes Orakpo then GBP might draft Brown. I just think he is going higher somewhere, JMO.
What if New Orleans franchises Vilma which I think they do, do you think Laurinitis can play SLB for them? Your next 3 picks after Laurinaitis look like strong possibilities for them as well.
Just a personal comment, Harvin is injury prone but I have to wonder if he will get that injured playing away from Meyer's system where he has to play as a RB. Playing WR fulltime he may stay a lot healthier and be an absolute sensational pro.

AkiliSmith
12-15-2008, 09:11 AM
Then why did they pay these guys that type of money. Obviously the GM doesn't agree with you and he will be the guy doing the draft. He has too much money tied up in the OL to even consider taking another one. It just isn't going to happen.
Well they don't have a GM, they have Mike Brown, the worst owner in the NFL.

The only money "tied up" is with Levi Jones, and he has been injured and terrible since he signed the extension.

Andrews is a free agent.

Both have been terrible this season.

vidae
12-15-2008, 09:13 AM
I can't really argue with the Curry pick. He's a great talent. I'd still prefer Orakpo, because we desperately need an upgrade at DE, but I do like Curry a lot.

wicket
12-15-2008, 09:15 AM
Just a quick question, everything I heard has the saints letting vilma slip to free agency and then offering him a long good contract (to keep the draftpick). Do you think he wont sign that one or do you have Laurinaitis as a wlb, cause in the first case I like the pick of Laurinaitis in the second case I'd much rather have either moore or cushing.

AkiliSmith
12-15-2008, 09:17 AM
So offensive tackle is the greatest weakness on the entire Bengals team.

No Cedric Benson at running back.

Or Dhani Jones at linebacker.

I know it was one of their greatest weaknesses this year but if they went into 2009 with Jones, Andrews, Collins, Whitworth, etc. it would still be their #1 most glaring weakness?
Center is the biggest need by an offensive tackle is a very close number two.

Benson is not great, but he has done an adequate job behind a terrible run blocking line. They could and should get a running back in round two or three. I'm of the opinion the difference in Wells and a back like Rashad Jennings is tiny compared to Monroe/Oher/Both Smiths and any of the tackles in round two or three.

Dhani Jones has played surprisingly well this season. He is not a game changer but not a liability. I would put middle linebacker about 5th on list of needs.

1. C
2. LT or RT
3. SLB
4. RB
5. MLB

Turtlepower
12-15-2008, 09:21 AM
Scott, no Greg Hardy in the first round? Has his stock really dropped that much?

Why the Bengals
12-15-2008, 09:22 AM
The Bengals o-line has played terrible but the fact is the center is terrible and can't make line calls or block. We need to straighten that out later in draft
Wells is a huge risk/reward guy. Scott can the Bengals take a chance like this?? They can't have another injured/bust 1st round pick. He is your typical Bengal pick who is injurd and never becomes the player he should have been.(you know them by now) Why not wait and see if other RB's fall to them? If Moreno/Mccoy shows up in the 2nd than u take them
I think the d has improved but we need more. I think with the past draft picks this team is realizing that defense wins championships. I think Curry would be a major upgrade over Dhani in the middle. With he and Rivers the front seven improves. Plus we get another great character guy on the team
Lastly can Chad be traded still for high picks?? They should have gotten the 1st rounder from Wash last year. What a mistake

keylime_5
12-15-2008, 09:28 AM
like the mock, scott. my mock has most of the same guys going in the same range, so that's a good sign for where my head's at I think b/c your mocks usually are way ahead of the curve. Jenkins or Orakpo or Curry seem like the 3 most likely to be the Browns' pick, or maybe Wells too. I think after all the senior bowl and combines and stuff Jason Smith will probably go before Eugene Monroe.

regoob2
12-15-2008, 09:56 AM
Can you explain why the Bears would take Maclin?

DiG
12-15-2008, 09:57 AM
like the mock, scott. my mock has most of the same guys going in the same range, so that's a good sign for where my head's at I think b/c your mocks usually are way ahead of the curve. Jenkins or Orakpo or Curry seem like the 3 most likely to be the Browns' pick, or maybe Wells too. I think after all the senior bowl and combines and stuff Jason Smith will probably go before Eugene Monroe.

depending where you pick dont rule our crabtree either.

scar988
12-15-2008, 10:03 AM
I love the Raji pick and the reasoning.

bigboiajhawk
12-15-2008, 10:16 AM
I dont think Beanie Wells in Cincy is a good fit. Wells is injury prone and I dont think he is worth a top 10 pick. I think they could pick up Shonn Greene is the 2nd or 3rd round and be just as statisfied. I mean Shonn Greene was the best runningback in the country. If you compare the two, Greene and Wells, they are the same size, they are shifty, they are close in speed, but most likely Wells gets taken before Greene even though there are few differences between them.

Chris30277
12-15-2008, 10:18 AM
Scott Love the Falcons pick! I have been watching Raji all season, and I have felt for some time that he would go in the first when all was said and done.

keylime_5
12-15-2008, 10:38 AM
depending where you pick dont rule our crabtree either.

yeah, but I kinda expect either Crabtree to be gone, but if he's available he's definitely a possibilty.

thebow305
12-15-2008, 10:45 AM
PERFECT Miami pick!!

Xiomera
12-15-2008, 10:51 AM
Very nice mock Scott.

I haven't seen the Everette Brown to Detroit pick anywhere yet. Much better than giving us Hardy like most people do.

PACKmanN
12-15-2008, 10:53 AM
But behind the joke of an offensive line he would get hurt the first week and average 2.7 yards per carry

I would rather them draft Monroe or reach for Maualuga. Maybe even Orakpo to help fix one of the NFL's worst pass rushes.

hey, O-SACK-PO is ours, get your own :)

NIN1984
12-15-2008, 10:54 AM
Perfect Raiders pick. If Crabtree comes out I hope he is off the board when we pick so Al Davis is forced to draft a LT.

bearsfan_51
12-15-2008, 11:22 AM
Can you explain why the Bears would take Maclin?
He did, in the following paragraphs. I don't know why you guys keep acting like Maclin isn't a very real possibility.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-15-2008, 11:28 AM
Scott, I was curious. I know that offensive tackle has been an easy thing to project for St. Louis for a couple drafts now, but somehow I'm not entirely convinced. Alex Barron is under contract for another year and Pace, although he's recently missed a small chunk of time, has been mostly healthy this season and didn't allow a sack through the first 10 games of the season. He's be 34 once the 2009 season gets halfway finished, but he can definitely still play, and you don't see many teams taking developmental offensive tackles in the first round (Oakland tried this with Gallery and it backfired violently).

It would seem like the Rams have other needs right now too. They could use a quarterback, they could use a linebacker, they could use a cornerback. Being locked into that #2 spot makes you pretty beholden to the idea of drafting the kind of positions you take at that kind of spot, but I'm still not sure I buy the Rams letting go of Pace or paying Smith 28+ million dollars to start his career at backup tackle or risk having him play a season at guard.

rockio42
12-15-2008, 11:33 AM
Scott, I was curious. I know that offensive tackle has been an easy thing to project for St. Louis for a couple drafts now, but somehow I'm not entirely convinced. Alex Barron is under contract for another year and Pace, although he's recently missed a small chunk of time, has been mostly healthy this season and didn't allow a sack through the first 10 games of the season. He's be 34 once the 2009 season gets halfway finished, but he can definitely still play, and you don't see many teams taking developmental offensive tackles in the first round (Oakland tried this with Gallery and it backfired violently).

It would seem like the Rams have other needs right now too. They could use a quarterback, they could use a linebacker, they could use a cornerback. Being locked into that #2 spot makes you pretty beholden to the idea of drafting the kind of positions you take at that kind of spot, but I'm still not sure I buy the Rams letting go of Pace or paying Smith 28+ million dollars to start his career at backup tackle or risk having him play a season at guard.

No, if you watch this team then you know OL is easily the top need, Alex Barron is just plain not good and i would be damn happy to have Andre Smith as ,y starting RT next year sure we need LBs and DBs but OL is by far and away the greatest need

CashmoneyDrew
12-15-2008, 11:35 AM
I don't want any part of a more fragile Ted Ginn. I'd hope we'd either reach or wait for Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt to be honest.

Vikes99ej
12-15-2008, 12:06 PM
Nice, nice pick for the Vikings. His versatility would be key for us. We don't have much depth at center or tackle, and I think we let Birk walk this offseason, which saddens me to a degree. I don't think Sullivan will ever be anything more than a 2nd string center at best, so I believe Unger's future would probably be at center. We could still get a quality tackle in round two through four. Alphonso Smith would also be a solid pick.

Hurricane Ditka
12-15-2008, 12:32 PM
Can you explain why the Bears would take Maclin?

Our top 5 Wide recievers:

Devin Hester
Brandon Lloyd
Rashied Davis
Marty Booker
Brandon Rideu

Can you explain why we wouldn't?

regoob2
12-15-2008, 12:41 PM
Our top 5 Wide recievers:

Devin Hester
Brandon Lloyd
Rashied Davis
Marty Booker
Brandon Rideu

Can you explain why we wouldn't?Our top 5 WRs with Maclin:
Hester
Lloyd
Maclin
Davis
Booker
Bennett

That doesnt look much better.

Our DEs
Ogun
Alex Brown
Mark Anderson

All playing very poorly and getting worse.

Our OL
Tait, St Clair, Josh Beekman are all starters. Id take Oher or Brown all day over Maclin. Maclin would be a terrible red zone threat and we'd have big money invested in Hester and Maclin. No thanks.

Hurricane Ditka
12-15-2008, 12:50 PM
Our top 5 WRs with Maclin:
Hester
Lloyd
Maclin
Davis
Booker
Bennett

That doesnt look much better.

Our DEs
Ogun
Alex Brown
Mark Anderson

All playing very poorly and getting worse.

Our OL
Tait, St Clair, Josh Beekman are all starters. Id take Oher or Brown all day over Maclin. Maclin would be a terrible red zone threat and we'd have big money invested in Hester and Maclin. No thanks.

Well for starters that's six WR's. Considering we use the TE's as our primary redzone targets, that's not that big of an issue.

On Oline, You might as well pencil in Chris Williams for St Clairs spot, who we just drafted in the first round last year. Ready to draft his replacement before he even steps on the field are we? I'd be fine if St Clair started in Tait's spot. And Josh Beekman has been a relative bright spot for his first year as a started. Seeing as this mock draft is only one round you can't expect all of our problems to have been filled at the drop of a hat.

regoob2
12-15-2008, 01:04 PM
Well for starters that's six WR's. Considering we use the TE's as our primary redzone targets, that's not that big of an issue.

On Oline, You might as well pencil in Chris Williams for St Clairs spot, who we just drafted in the first round last year. Ready to draft his replacement before he even steps on the field are we? I'd be fine if St Clair started in Tait's spot. And Josh Beekman has been a relative bright spot for his first year as a started. Seeing as this mock draft is only one round you can't expect all of our problems to have been filled at the drop of a hat.Oher can play RT or OG. Beekman is not an OG he's a C.

ManOverboard
12-15-2008, 01:22 PM
I would like us to get Spikes instead of Jackson because watching the Jets this year the most pressing concern to me is getting a coverage ILB as opposing TE's eat us alive.

David Harris is a great run stuffer but moderate at best in pass coverage. Eric Barton in pass coverage is painful to watch.

gpngc
12-15-2008, 01:27 PM
I agree with Scott about the Seahawks.

Mora is not going to want to take a QB. He's going to have a difficult enough time convincing Ruskell to take an offensive player, let alone a QB.

Hasselbeck will get another shot next year with more weapons. I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle took a QB later in the draft, but I doubt they pass on a potential franchise LT, WR, or RB in the top ten.

Olympia Martin
12-15-2008, 01:41 PM
I think this is the best mock draft I have seen to date.

Beanie Wells to Cincy is going to get a lot of unwanted attention because most Bengals fans want a Olineman there. That is probably just like us Falcon fans wanted a DT and got Matt Ryan who you had in your mocks for months.

I like the Raji pick to Atlanta although his character could be questioned and that may take him off their big board altogether.

Only other suggestion is why not Sam Bradford to St. Louis? Now I love Andre Smith as a prospect and they would do wonders for their rush offense but who is going to play Quarterback there? Bulger can't get it done anymore and even if he could he is always injured. Trent Green turns 85 this coming year. I think its time the take a franchise signal caller.

Babylon
12-15-2008, 01:51 PM
I don't see Seattle taking a quarterback in round one.

I think they see themselves as a team that can bounce back and content in 2009. If you take Bradford you are rebuilding.


I totally agree on what they're thinking i just think they're dilusional. Matt Hasselbeck is 33 going on 50, Walter Jones is a 12 year veteran who is going to be coming off a serious knee injury and their receivers are mediocre at best. I would actually move mountains to move up and take the best QB out there but knowing Seattle they'll think they can patch it together. And they would be wrong.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 01:56 PM
Center is the biggest need by an offensive tackle is a very close number two.

Benson is not great, but he has done an adequate job behind a terrible run blocking line. They could and should get a running back in round two or three. I'm of the opinion the difference in Wells and a back like Rashad Jennings is tiny compared to Monroe/Oher/Both Smiths and any of the tackles in round two or three.

Dhani Jones has played surprisingly well this season. He is not a game changer but not a liability. I would put middle linebacker about 5th on list of needs.

1. C
2. LT or RT
3. SLB
4. RB
5. MLB

I don't completely agree. I'd say:

1. Center
2. Running Back
3. Middle Linebacker
4. Left Tackle
5. Strongside Linebacker
6. Fullback (Get Mr. Overweight out of here... this one's kind of a personal choice.)

The Bengals o-line has played terrible but the fact is the center is terrible and can't make line calls or block. We need to straighten that out later in draft
Wells is a huge risk/reward guy. Scott can the Bengals take a chance like this?? They can't have another injured/bust 1st round pick. He is your typical Bengal pick who is injurd and never becomes the player he should have been.(you know them by now) Why not wait and see if other RB's fall to them? If Moreno/Mccoy shows up in the 2nd than u take them
I think the d has improved but we need more. I think with the past draft picks this team is realizing that defense wins championships. I think Curry would be a major upgrade over Dhani in the middle. With he and Rivers the front seven improves. Plus we get another great character guy on the team
Lastly can Chad be traded still for high picks?? They should have gotten the 1st rounder from Wash last year. What a mistake

Curry or Beanie would be a great pick. I'd love to have Curry playing MLB and allow Dhani to be our SLB, though I still hope the tlak about a 3-4 resurface... we could use more of a true NT though if that happened...

However, back to your post, don't concern yourself with him being a bit injury prone. We've drafted guys with no history of injuries and they go down often. It's just not something you can predict. Might as well make sure they haven't suffered any severe injuries and just go from there.

I dont think Beanie Wells in Cincy is a good fit. Wells is injury prone and I dont think he is worth a top 10 pick. I think they could pick up Shonn Greene is the 2nd or 3rd round and be just as statisfied. I mean Shonn Greene was the best runningback in the country. If you compare the two, Greene and Wells, they are the same size, they are shifty, they are close in speed, but most likely Wells gets taken before Greene even though there are few differences between them.

I don't see Greene coming out since right now he's a second rounder, and he'll be a strong first next year if he stays. I like Greene a lot, he'll be a very good RB in the NFL, though I see more potential with Beanie.

MidwayMonster31
12-15-2008, 02:06 PM
Given what you said about Maclin earlier, that's a decent pick. I would prefer defensive end and go for a wide receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round. Brennan Marion could be good.
As for the Bengals, I agree with AkiliSmith, to take the building-block player in Monroe. Levi Jones has played awful, thanks to several knee injuries. He can move inside to guard. Stacy Andrews is not a RT, he's a guard. He could also be gone next year. Collins could be a starting tackle. The Bengals have also had a ton of problems protecting the quarterback.
You are right, that running back is a serious problem for the Bengals. Personally, I have a problem with drafting a running back with a top-10 pick, let alone, a top-5 pick. They are not worth the money, given their short career peak and injury risk. I would pick a running back in the 3rd round, like James Davis, Rashad Jennings or Arian Foster. If the offensive line is there, a good running back with a good line can do the same as a great running back with an average line.

diabsoule
12-15-2008, 02:06 PM
Scott,

I know Vilma is set to become a FA but I have a feeling that a deal is already in place for him and the reason their letting him go is just to not give up the draft picks. I have a gut feeling that he will be re-signed.
As far as the James Laurinaitis pick I have to say that I don't care for it. Sure, I've been disappointed in the past with Saints first round draft picks (Reggie Bush, Robert Meachem) but with this year I feel an upgrade over Scott Shanle is something that the team could address in FA rather than the draft. With that being said I feel that safety is the biggest need for the Saints and with William Moore still on the board in your mock, that should be the pick.
Kevin Kaesviharn and Josh Bullocks are not the answer at FS and it has shown this year. I have also heard grumblings about Roman Harper (from fans) at SS so the Saints could be in the market to replace both safeties. This could be year that they do it.

I have a thought on who I'd like at SS but he'd be a development project and I've tossed around the idea of sending you a PM about it and what you'd think of the idea.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 02:11 PM
Given what you said about Maclin earlier, that's a decent pick. I would prefer defensive end and go for a wide receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round. Brennan Marion could be good.
As for the Bengals, I agree with AkiliSmith, to take the building-block player in Monroe. Levi Jones has played awful, thanks to several knee injuries. He can move inside to guard. Stacy Andrews is not a RT, he's a guard. He could also be gone next year. Collins could be a starting tackle. The Bengals have also had a ton of problems protecting the quarterback.
You are right, that running back is a serious problem for the Bengals. Personally, I have a problem with drafting a running back with a top-10 pick, let alone, a top-5 pick. They are not worth the money, given their short career peak and injury risk. I would pick a running back in the 3rd round, like James Davis, Rashad Jennings or Arian Foster. If the offensive line is there, a good running back with a good line can do the same as a great running back with an average line.

You've got to look at it from the perspective of the organization. They did just pay Levi, and he's not the only one who went out with an injury this year. There's a strong chance they won't even consider OT with Collins taking over at RT and just look at Curry (whom I've heard the organization loves) or Beanie. Also, I don't see Davis or Jennings projecting out of the 2nd. Maybe 2nd-3rd for Davis, not for Jennings. Foster I would absoltuely dread drafting.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-15-2008, 02:25 PM
No, if you watch this team then you know OL is easily the top need, Alex Barron is just plain not good and i would be damn happy to have Andre Smith as ,y starting RT next year sure we need LBs and DBs but OL is by far and away the greatest need

I haven't watched more than a few Rams games this season, but it always appeared that the interior line was having more trouble than the tackles. I know Barron hasn't been excellent, but he's at least looked passable most of the times I've seen him. My only hesitation is that this look to be a pretty deep draft of offensive tackles and there is a top level linebacker prospect and top level defensive back prospect that figure to be available to the Rams as well.

Babylon
12-15-2008, 02:46 PM
I haven't watched more than a few Rams games this season, but it always appeared that the interior line was having more trouble than the tackles. I know Barron hasn't been excellent, but he's at least looked passable most of the times I've seen him. My only hesitation is that this look to be a pretty deep draft of offensive tackles and there is a top level linebacker prospect and top level defensive back prospect that figure to be available to the Rams as well.


I sort of think you're right there. The Rams could probably get themselves a great center early on in round 2 and use the 1st pick to grab some defense. Not sure who that would be but their defense is terrible.

bigboiajhawk
12-15-2008, 02:49 PM
I don't see Greene coming out since right now he's a second rounder, and he'll be a strong first next year if he stays. I like Greene a lot, he'll be a very good RB in the NFL, though I see more potential with Beanie.

His stock cant get any higher than it is right now, he is 23 years old, he will be 24 during his rookie season. He was the best RB in the nation. Got heisman votes. There is not much more he can possibly do. If he doesnt declare this year he will be a third round pick next year because no one likes a 25 year old rookie.

I think those are all reasons as to why he will be declaring.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 02:53 PM
His stock cant get any higher than it is right now, he is 23 years old, he will be 24 during his rookie season. He was the best RB in the nation. Got heisman votes. There is not much more he can possibly do. If he doesnt declare this year he will be a third round pick next year because no one likes a 25 year old rookie.

I think those are all reasons as to why he will be declaring.

Eh, still seems kind of iffy to me. Yeah he'll be 25, but you'll still get several seasons out of him.

radjohns
12-15-2008, 03:31 PM
As a Ram fan I will be very disappointed in the Rams take Andre Smith. His weight issues and questionable work ethic remind me too much of Leonard Davis. The Rams need a guard, which is what Smith will no doubt eventually be in the NFL, but I don't want them using a top five pick on one.

Geo
12-15-2008, 04:30 PM
In my last mock I had Cincy taking Wells at #2. It is a natural fit IMO.
As much as I like Beanie, he's not so great a RB prospect that he has to be taken that high imo. Add in his durability issues and the position itself, and I definitely wouldn't draft him with the second overall pick myself. Too much money at stake for me.

Geo
12-15-2008, 04:31 PM
I don't see Seattle taking a quarterback in round one.

I think they see themselves as a team that can bounce back and content in 2009. If you take Bradford you are rebuilding.
Why can't it be an Aaron Rodgers type situation, Scott? Hasselbeck has two more years after this on his current contract, at around 5.5M per. Maybe they keep Hasselbeck through his deal, maybe not and they make the move after '09. He's been somewhat injury-prone the last few years, playing all 16 games in a season only three times in his career.

That's something I've been considering, especially as Bradford might be a good fit ... however if Crabtree is on the board, they should probably consider him as Deion Branch is the only keeper they have at WR and he definitely can't stay healthy. Burleson isn't anything to write home about, and according to Rotoworld, his contract is voidable after '09.

Also, per the Seahawks' board, word is they have serious interest in Malcolm Jenkins. Which, if the move is made, might be a not-so-startling admission about Kelly Jennings and perhaps Josh Wilson as well. They do play in the same division as Arizona.

illmatic74
12-15-2008, 04:41 PM
Why can't it be an Aaron Rodgers type situation, Scott? Hasselbeck has two more years after this on his current contract, at around 5.5M per. Maybe they keep Hasselbeck through his deal, maybe not and they make the move after '09. He's been somewhat injury-prone the last few years, playing all 16 games in a season only three times in his career.

That's something I've been considering, especially as Bradford might be a good fit ... however if Crabtree is on the board, they should probably consider him as Deion Branch is the only keeper they have at WR and he definitely can't stay healthy. Burleson isn't anything to write home about, and according to Rotoworld, his contract is voidable after '09.

Also, per the Seahawks' board, word is they have serious interest in Malcolm Jenkins. Which, if the move is made, might be a not-so-startling admission about Kelly Jennings and perhaps Josh Wilson as well. They do play in the same division as Arizona.If Nate Davis enters and is avaiable in the second round he would be perdect for the West Coast Offense.

Bengals78
12-15-2008, 04:56 PM
As much as I like Beanie, he's not so great a RB prospect that he has to be taken that high imo. Add in his durability issues and the position itself, and I definitely wouldn't draft him with the second overall pick myself. Too much money at stake for me.

I agree with this 100%. I think Beanie goes 10-15 IMO. I don't really see the standout runner like a Bush or Peterson this year. And with the Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams injury situations, I can see why a team would be hesitant on a RB that early. As for Beanie's injuries, if we cant get a push up front, he will get hit early and often by guys like, Haloti Ngata, Ray Lewis, Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers, James Harrison, James Farrior Troy Polamalu, Terrell Suggs. That is not a good way to prolong an investment in a running back with a history of "small" injuries.

Levi Jones can be cut or traded, (preferably the latter). He has been stinking it up and has never recovered from injury. Anthony Collins has done nothing short of great on such little actual PT for a 4th rounder. We still need to shore up the RT because Stacy needs to GTFO.

With our youth in the secondary, (White, Ndukwe, JJ and Hall) getting a pass rusher would only make them better making them have to spend less time running with WRs. When healthy, our DB didnt play terrible considering the QB had all day to throw.

I would honestly hope (wont ever happen) we trade back and use extra picks to bolster our line.

Don Vito
12-15-2008, 05:13 PM
Vontae Davis to the Pats is as good as it gets. William Moore would be a great get and I would love Oher if he falls that far.

ElectricEye
12-15-2008, 05:19 PM
Vontae Davis would defiantly be an amazing get for us. I'm not sure we pick that high by the end of things though, but I would love to get him.

kwilk103
12-15-2008, 05:27 PM
no lasean mccoy?

MidwayMonster31
12-15-2008, 05:28 PM
You've got to look at it from the perspective of the organization. They did just pay Levi, and he's not the only one who went out with an injury this year. There's a strong chance they won't even consider OT with Collins taking over at RT and just look at Curry (whom I've heard the organization loves) or Beanie. Also, I don't see Davis or Jennings projecting out of the 2nd. Maybe 2nd-3rd for Davis, not for Jennings. Foster I would absoltuely dread drafting.They did just pay Levi, but he hasn't delivered accordingly. He has had knee injuries for the past few years and he is approaching the wrong side of 30. Collins should be fine at RT, but I think with how bad (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_1024_Off._Hog_Index.html) their line has played, and Jones' injury history, that it would be a mistake not to address OT. They could pick a development guy later, but I think that they should address the need early.
Curry would be a good pick for them, but I think that middle linebacker is a bigger problem.
I had Davis as a 3rd rounder and I also said 3rd round for running backs. I would go OT in the first round, defensive end in the 2nd round and running back in the 3rd round. Foster will probably drop to the 4th or 5th round.

MidwayMonster31
12-15-2008, 05:39 PM
As far as Seattle is concerned, they do need a quarterback of the future, but I think that they can go with a development guy. That could be Rhett Bohmar, Nate Davis, Cullen Harper, or any of those mid-round guys. Crabtree would make sense because they need a go-to guy as a wide receiver. Malcolm Jenkins is also a good option, they are allowing a 97.9 defensive passer rating.
If Crabtree comes out, I would pick him first, go with a corner in the second round (Harris, Lindley, Smith) and go with a QB in the 3rd round.

holt_bruce81
12-15-2008, 05:44 PM
Love the Rams pick. Quick question.....With Bulger's huge salary, is Quarterback totally out of the question? I mean he is playing like garbage.

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 05:47 PM
Personally I like Dhani Jones, and would love to keep him starting on the strong side with a new MLB, and Jeanty providing strong depth.

Our biggest weakness imo is Center, followed by RB.

before I read the rest of comments on the mock and comment myself, I must say WHAT???????

Dhani Jones is TERRIBLE!!! he's just unbelievably AWFUL.

carry on

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 05:50 PM
I don't want any part of a more fragile Ted Ginn. I'd hope we'd either reach or wait for Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt to be honest.

HEY HEY HEY! NO NO NO. he's mine ok? He can only go to the Giants. BACK OFF!!!!

:)

but seriously...he's ours

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 05:51 PM
ok, done reading all the comments! :D

I like the Sintim pick. Gives us a quicker LB'er who CAN MAKE PLAYS! OMG!

we really need that, very good. great job overal as well, couple of picks that really made sense

RaiderNation
12-15-2008, 05:54 PM
Good job Scott, good raider pick too

Geo
12-15-2008, 05:54 PM
before I read the rest of comments on the mock and comment myself, I must say WHAT???????

Dhani Jones is TERRIBLE!!! he's just unbelievably AWFUL.

carry on
He's not too bad in Cincinnati actually. I'm actually tempted to say he might be playing the best ball of his career.

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 05:56 PM
He's not too bad in Cincinnati actually. I'm actually tempted to say he might be playing the best ball of his career.

well, I'll admit, haven't seen him much in cincy. but playing the best of career isn't saying much. That's probably the equivalent to Ray Lewis when he was in pop warner in terms of sheer talent...

villagewarrior
12-15-2008, 05:58 PM
From what I have heard the Curry pick sounds like a good one for the Chiefs, however I think if Bradford is there, the new GM (YES!) needs to have that card up to the podium in about 12.4 seconds with Bradford's name on it.

Geo
12-15-2008, 06:01 PM
Love the Rams pick. Quick question.....With Bulger's huge salary, is Quarterback totally out of the question? I mean he is playing like garbage.
Getting a franchise LT would be key for whoever is at QB, like it was with Orlando Pace ten years or so ago. I'd say improving the offensive line and the receiving core is vital before bringing in the next guy (presumably a prospect out of college).

That could be the ideal team for Sam Bradford though, playing in the dome with his accuracy ...

The Rams definitely need to bring in a quarterback this offseason, if not a young guy to groom than at least a competent back-up. Trent Green has had a good career in the NFL and will make for an excellent analyst/commentator in the years to come.

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 06:29 PM
They did just pay Levi, but he hasn't delivered accordingly. He has had knee injuries for the past few years and he is approaching the wrong side of 30. Collins should be fine at RT, but I think with how bad (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/2_1024_Off._Hog_Index.html) their line has played, and Jones' injury history, that it would be a mistake not to address OT. They could pick a development guy later, but I think that they should address the need early.
Curry would be a good pick for them, but I think that middle linebacker is a bigger problem.
I had Davis as a 3rd rounder and I also said 3rd round for running backs. I would go OT in the first round, defensive end in the 2nd round and running back in the 3rd round. Foster will probably drop to the 4th or 5th round.

I'm just saying that from the side of the organization, with what they've put into him, they'll say that he's just been hurt, and next season he'll be fully recovered and ready to go. They won't want to address OT, though depth there would be nice as Kooistra was hurt as well.

Also, if we go OT, DE, RB, when do we pick a Center? I see it right now as: RB/LB, C, LB/RB, then look for a pass rush specialist at DE.

underscore
12-15-2008, 06:30 PM
If Aaron Maybin declared for the draft, where would you rate him?

I see McShay has him at #9. He just seems like a guy too much of a tweener right now to be a high draft pick as a redshirt soph.

MidwayMonster31
12-15-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm just saying that from the side of the organization, with what they've put into him, they'll say that he's just been hurt, and next season he'll be fully recovered and ready to go. They won't want to address OT, though depth there would be nice as Kooistra was hurt as well.

Also, if we go OT, DE, RB, when do we pick a Center? I see it right now as: RB/LB, C, LB/RB, then look for a pass rush specialist at DE.All right, that's fair.

Babylon
12-15-2008, 06:54 PM
As far as Seattle is concerned, they do need a quarterback of the future, but I think that they can go with a development guy. That could be Rhett Bohmar, Nate Davis, Cullen Harper, or any of those mid-round guys. Crabtree would make sense because they need a go-to guy as a wide receiver. Malcolm Jenkins is also a good option, they are allowing a 97.9 defensive passer rating.
If Crabtree comes out, I would pick him first, go with a corner in the second round (Harris, Lindley, Smith) and go with a QB in the 3rd round.

I wouldn't be totally opposed to a Jenkins or a Crabtree and then getting a Bomar in round 3. Davis seems too short to me and i don't think he'll come out (could be wrong), i don't see anyone else there that is going to take the team to the next level in the future. I'm probably in the camp that thinks the Seattle team is on the downside of their run and i would rather rebuild but my guess is the team thinks they can turn it around from their disaster of a season.

DreadedDatSkinsFan
12-15-2008, 06:55 PM
I have a strong feelin the Skins are gonna go after Julius Peppers...I dont have any inside info...I just have the feeling....W/ that said..I dont see us going after Johnson regardless if my Peppers feeling is wrong...I believe Duke Robinson is who we will end up getting...I know we need a pass rush...but our Online has been HORRIBLE ever since the Steelers game...Not only has Campbell been gettin killed...CP hasnt had a legitimate hole (right or left side) in 6 weeks...Its time draft an o lineman...

SenorGato
12-15-2008, 06:57 PM
So not a Tyson Jackson fan, especially with Sintim, Brown, Hardy, A. Smith, Pettigrew, McCoy, and Moreno still on the board...amongst others.

I'm just not an LSU DL guy yet...

The Pats would be catching another huge stroke of luck if Davis fell to them. I think he's going to be a beast as a pro.

DreadedDatSkinsFan
12-15-2008, 07:06 PM
In fact when I think about it, Vinny Cerrato (our VP of Football Operations) was on this local TV show he does weekly...he said there were 7 lineman they were going to take in last years draft...But they were all gone b4 our pick...

gsorace
12-15-2008, 07:18 PM
So not a Tyson Jackson fan, especially with Sintim, Brown, Hardy, A. Smith, Pettigrew, McCoy, and Moreno still on the board...amongst others.

You would rather have a running back, or ANOTHER tight end instead of Jackson?

I wouldn't mind us taking another OLB though, even if Gholston does turn into a football player, another pass rusher couldn't hurt.

bearsfan_51
12-15-2008, 07:21 PM
I have a strong feelin the Skins are gonna go after Julius Peppers...I dont have any inside info...I just have the feeling....W/ that said..I dont see us going after Johnson regardless if my Peppers feeling is wrong...I believe Duke Robinson is who we will end up getting...I know we need a pass rush...but our Online has been HORRIBLE ever since the Steelers game...Not only has Campbell been gettin killed...CP hasnt had a legitimate hole (right or left side) in 6 weeks...Its time draft an o lineman...
I'm sure that 'feeling' has nothing to do with the fact that you're a Redskins fan.

CashmoneyDrew
12-15-2008, 07:25 PM
I have a feeling I'm gonna score Layla Kayleigh and Diora Baird at the same time. Wait and see.

Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 07:32 PM
Just a note on Beanie Wells:

Yes he has been nicked up at times during his college career but he played 13 games in 2006 and 13 games in 2007. So when he sat out a few games with the toe injury earlier this season that is really the only time he has actually missed action.

Yes he gets nicked up, all players do (especially 237 pound running backs). However, he has also shown the toughness to play through pain.

Wells' injury concerns are no worse than Adrian Peterson's when he was coming out.

Scott Wright
12-15-2008, 07:36 PM
I don't think I see the Rams considering a quarterback in round one.

The wheels have fallen off for Bulger but I think there is enough history there that they know it's not all his fault. I think they will focus on getting better around him rather than starting over completely.

For the Rams I think it comes down to:

* Best Available OT
* Malcolm Jenkins
* Aaron Curry

twizbuck
12-15-2008, 08:01 PM
Just a note on Beanie Wells:

Yes he has been nicked up at times during his college career but he played 13 games in 2006 and 13 games in 2007. So when he sat out a few games with the toe injury earlier this season that is really the only time he has actually missed action.

Yes he gets nicked up, all players do (especially 237 pound running backs). However, he has also shown the toughness to play through pain.

Wells' injury concerns are no worse than Adrian Peterson's when he was coming out.

:)

Thank you Mr. Wright. Though, I do wonder, how likely would it be for Cincy to take Curry? I had heard a couple times before that their scouting department (as much of a joke as it is) truly loves Curry's ability and potential.

armageddon
12-15-2008, 10:48 PM
I don't think I see the Rams considering a quarterback in round one.

The wheels have fallen off for Bulger but I think there is enough history there that they know it's not all his fault. I think they will focus on getting better around him rather than starting over completely.

For the Rams I think it comes down to:

* Best Available OT
* Malcolm Jenkins
* Aaron Curry


A few things. People who think Barron is bad, have not been watching him close enough. He may have an occasional false start, but he is a darn good RT. Maybe not pro bowl caliber, but he is plenty good. MLB is the biggest weakness on their team. Witherspoon is not a MLB. If the Rams draft Curry or Manguala, they can move Spoon back to WLB where he belongs. This essentially improves two positions. But #2 is a little high for these two players. If Bradford declares, are there any teams around 6-10 that would move up to take him or somebody else ? The Rams could use an additional 2nd or 3rd for this move. They also need a center in a big way. The interior of the line gets bull rushed by powerful NT's. Either Mack or Unger should be there at the top of rd 2. Trade down would be the best move for the Rams as long as they don't trade down too far and lose out on Curry or Manguala.

Spectre
12-15-2008, 10:55 PM
Scott - I don't see the Browns drafting a corner in the first at all. Right now, our secondary has 3 real problems IMO in this order.

1) Pass rush is so bad that they can't possibly cover.
2) Inexperience throughout the entire unit
3) Lack of size at corner

Drafting Jenkins only fixes the size issue, but that won't mean much with how little we get to the QB. We're in the middle of the league in terms of pass defense, but we rank 30th in the league in sacks and in the Bottom 10 in run defense.

It would make much more sense to sign a veteran corner to take care of #2 and #3 and then draft a front seven defensive player (linebacker if we stay in 3-4, DE/LB if we change to a 4-3). I'd accept either that or Beanie if he were there to replace Jamal Lewis, as fresh legs in the running game are also a necessity.

I just don't think corner is the pick for us because as good as it may look on paper, it doesn't really address our core issues.

MicktheGreat
12-15-2008, 11:29 PM
Scott,

In regards to the Titans pick, I don't think they'll take Percy Harvin in round one. Nothing against Harvin (I think he's a dynamite play-maker); but, in recent years, the Titans's coaching staff and front-office have shown time-and-time again that they just don't value the WR position early in the draft.

I think part of that belief is founded in some bad history. It seems like the Titans always miss on early round WRs (see: Kevin Dyson, Tyrone Calico, Joey Kent, etc.).

For this draft, EVERYTHING depends on Albert Haynesworth.

If we somehow manage to re-sign him, then our DT position is set for years and we probably address CB, where Nick Harper is getting older (and battling injuries), Reynaldo Hill is terrible, and Eric King & Vincent Fuller are both better suited for the nickel role. If not, then DT suddenly becomes priority #1 IMO as Tony Brown, Jason Jones, and Kevin Vickerson are all solid but are made MUCH better with Haynesworth's presence alongside them in the middle.

Right now, I'd rank the Titans 1st round pick (in terms of likelihood):
1a. DT (depending on AH's status)
1b. CB
3. WR
4. DE
5. MLB

Halsey
12-15-2008, 11:34 PM
What are the chances Casey Dick could work his way into the first round by April?

gpngc
12-15-2008, 11:34 PM
Why can't it be an Aaron Rodgers type situation, Scott? Hasselbeck has two more years after this on his current contract, at around 5.5M per. Maybe they keep Hasselbeck through his deal, maybe not and they make the move after '09. He's been somewhat injury-prone the last few years, playing all 16 games in a season only three times in his career.

That's something I've been considering, especially as Bradford might be a good fit ... however if Crabtree is on the board, they should probably consider him as Deion Branch is the only keeper they have at WR and he definitely can't stay healthy. Burleson isn't anything to write home about, and according to Rotoworld, his contract is voidable after '09.

Also, per the Seahawks' board, word is they have serious interest in Malcolm Jenkins. Which, if the move is made, might be a not-so-startling admission about Kelly Jennings and perhaps Josh Wilson as well. They do play in the same division as Arizona.

They probably think they can compete with Hasselbeck right now (In today's NFL, they most likely can). So they would probably take a guy in the top ten who they can use to make another run at the Super Bowl right away before their two key guys (Jones and Hasselbeck) have to retire- and both are on their way. There were some rumblings about maybe cutting Hasselbeck this offseason, which would pave the way for an incoming future QB, but I can't see them giving up on the season to save some money.

And the other thing is that GM Ruskell is definitely a defense-first guy. Trading down is possible, and guys like William Moore or Taylor Mays make sense.

CashmoneyDrew
12-15-2008, 11:42 PM
Scott,
Right now, I'd rank the Titans 1st round pick (in terms of likelihood):
1a. DT (depending on AH's status)
1b. CB
3. WR
4. DE
5. MLB

I see it pretty similarly.
(I'm assuming we resign Haynesworth)
1) CB
2) WR
3) MLB
4) KR/PR
5) O-line depth/DE

Menardo75
12-16-2008, 12:59 AM
Why isn't Shaun Hill a franchise QB Scott?

NGSeiler
12-16-2008, 07:12 AM
I don't think I see the Rams considering a quarterback in round one.

The wheels have fallen off for Bulger but I think there is enough history there that they know it's not all his fault. I think they will focus on getting better around him rather than starting over completely.

For the Rams I think it comes down to:

* Best Available OT
* Malcolm Jenkins
* Aaron Curry

Thank you, Scott! I've been arguing for weeks now that a first round QB is not the answer for the Rams. There simply aren't enough pieces on offense for a first round QB to step in and succeed, and being drafted that high, he'd see the field sooner rather than later IMO. The Rams have Bulger under contract after just signing him two summers ago, so I agree that they should improve around him and see what happens. He can still be efficient IMO (see Sunday's game) but needs help, which a new QB will need anyways.

I'm intrigued by both defensive options, but ultimately it's going to come down to how the Rams feel about the tackle situation. I think they want to find Pace's successor before Pace walks out the door, and they're in a position to do so this year. But will they fall in love with Smith? He seems to be the top rated tackle right now but I have some questions that I hope we'll see answered in offseason workouts.

Halsey
12-16-2008, 08:45 AM
Do you think Marc Bulger is good enough to be the starting QB of a Super Bowl winning team? Do you think the Rams are ok for the long term at the NFL's most important single position? Then they need a QB. The Rams can give Bulger another year while a rookie sits the bench. If Bulger comes back strong he'll have good trade value when the Rams are ready to turn to the young QB. If Bulger really has lost it, or he gets hurt, the Rams have a guy to turn to. The Rams could absolutely use a top 5 QB prospect.

Why the Bengals
12-16-2008, 08:46 AM
Fellas
Now with Carl Edwards out @ KC, Herm I am sure is gone
Does Cowher take over as GM/Head Coach?? How does that impact the KC draft pick? With all that young talent if they can get Cowher and mold his team look out for the Chiefs in the future
As for Beanie Wells thanks for the AP comparison on injuries Scott but I think we can all agree AP was/is at another level than Beanie. If I am wrong please help me understand
I feel that if you look at the successful teams there defense is the trade mark (except Indy although there D has imrpoved over the yrs.) Offense sells seats and defense wins so I pray they continue to rebuild the front seven of the d. Their young corners will only be better with a pass rush and a defense that stops the run. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out unless your involved with the Begals front office?
The fact that Dhani is still playing is mind numbing. I thought he was done when he left the G-man.
Lastly I asked before does Ocho Cinco have trade value still??

NGSeiler
12-16-2008, 09:31 AM
Do you think Marc Bulger is good enough to be the starting QB of a Super Bowl winning team?

I think he could be. I don't view him as an elite quarterback, but Bulger has shown the ability to play very good football when he has weapons around him. His game has declined the last two seasons for numerous reasons, but he's shown flashes this year of still being able to play at a high level.

The Rams will need to improve the supporting cast for a new QB anyways, so just start the process now and see how Bulger responds.

Do you think the Rams are ok for the long term at the NFL's most important single position?

Not really, which is why I'd advocate drafting a mid round QB whom they can sit and groom for a few seasons. One who doesn't carry the big contract or immediate expectations of a top three passer. One whose contract, when combined with Bulger's, won't hinder the Rams' ability to address their many other needs or who won't be rushed on the field before he's ready because of where he was drafted.

The Rams could absolutely use a top 5 QB prospect.

Not so fast. You've given some valid reasons as to why the Rams should look for a young QB of the future, and I agree that they should bring in a young guy. But you've given little reasoning as to why that QB should be taken with the second overall pick specifically.

Anyways, I had this debate with another poster in the Rams team forum, so you might want to check out that discussion there. I doubt we need to debate the pros and cons of such a direction here, especially after Scott's already weighed in.

PossumBoy9
12-16-2008, 10:08 AM
It would seem like the Rams have other needs right now too. They could use a quarterback, they could use a linebacker, they could use a cornerback. Being locked into that #2 spot makes you pretty beholden to the idea of drafting the kind of positions you take at that kind of spot, but I'm still not sure I buy the Rams letting go of Pace or paying Smith 28+ million dollars to start his career at backup tackle or risk having him play a season at guard.

The Rams could certainly use a future #1 WR too.

Andre Smith playing a season at guard doesn't necessarily seem like a waste of money. It could make for a strong o-line in '09.

Smooth Criminal
12-16-2008, 10:35 AM
I'm a huge supporter of the Steelers taking Robinson. I'd love to see them resign Kemo to play LG and draft Robinson to play RG. Stapleton can go back to center.

Still, Id rather see the Steelers move Colon to RG, but it seems they don't want to do it.

rockio42
12-16-2008, 10:36 AM
I don't think I see the Rams considering a quarterback in round one.

The wheels have fallen off for Bulger but I think there is enough history there that they know it's not all his fault. I think they will focus on getting better around him rather than starting over completely.

For the Rams I think it comes down to:

* Best Available OT
* Malcolm Jenkins
* Aaron Curry

game, set, match, genious

If anything people need to look back to 2006, when our offensive line actually meshed and played well, not only did Jackson go to the pro-bowl but so did Marc Bulger so hes not bad, his supporting cast just isn't giving him anything to work with

rockio42
12-16-2008, 10:41 AM
Thank you, Scott! I've been arguing for weeks now that a first round QB is not the answer for the Rams. There simply aren't enough pieces on offense for a first round QB to step in and succeed, and being drafted that high, he'd see the field sooner rather than later IMO. The Rams have Bulger under contract after just signing him two summers ago, so I agree that they should improve around him and see what happens. He can still be efficient IMO (see Sunday's game) but needs help, which a new QB will need anyways.

I'm intrigued by both defensive options, but ultimately it's going to come down to how the Rams feel about the tackle situation. I think they want to find Pace's successor before Pace walks out the door, and they're in a position to do so this year. But will they fall in love with Smith? He seems to be the top rated tackle right now but I have some questions that I hope we'll see answered in offseason workouts.

The big thing on that one is that reports are that the Rams FO thinks he is a fat, lazy, and not built to be a OT...

H.O.O.D
12-16-2008, 10:42 AM
I'm still not sold the Lions will draft a 1st round QB. They could look to FA (Matt Cassell?) and decide to take a safer approach in the draft with Andre Smith. I agree with your golden rule BUT a QB is only as good as the OL blocking in front of him and the Lions have once again surrendered far too many sacks to not seriously consider Smith. Yes they could add an OT later in the 1st or at the top of the 2nd but none with the same potential as Smith and Stafford 7 Bradford are not better QB prospects than Ryan was.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jags went with Laurinaitis (or Curry if he is still on the board). Malcolm Jenkins is also a possibility here IMO.

The 9ers could opt to get a franchise signal caller when their picks comes up, BUT the million dollar question is do they want to invest in another top 10 QB so soon ? They have other needs as well and Alex Smith didn't fare well without an OL in front him, they could look to grab an OT or a pass rusher here. Maybe even a playmaking safety as the 9ers have ZERO INT's from their safeties (however would Mays or Moore be able to wear the headset for the D from day 1 because Sing has put the radio back in Roman's helmet due to the calls not getting to the secondary fast enough).

Bears fans are probably strongly disliking your Maclin pick as they want and need a WR with some size, DHB fits so maybe a trade down is what happens here.

The Cards will add another RB somewhere (FA or the draft) but after finding a gem in the 5th last year they may opt to find another RB outside the first and take a pass rusher or build the OL. OL is my guess if there is player of value here.

I would not be surprised if the Vikes went DT here (Peria Jerry) as Pat Williams isn't getting any younger. They need an OT for sure but RT's can be had in the 2nd or 3rd as this OT draft class is deep as you already know.

I think the Ravens may try to get a WR if they can't land one on the market but I can't help but agree that LB is a very strong possibility as one of the 3 FA LB's is gone, possibly even 2 of them. (IMHO Ray Ray will stay but Suggs and Scott may look to cash in).

At this point Tennessee has to be a team with a strong possibility to look to move UP to try and get a WR who is much more durable than Harvin and who can stretch the field (Maclin or DHB obviously).

NGSeiler
12-16-2008, 11:04 AM
The Rams could certainly use a future #1 WR too.

Very true. There was a time when I was pretty open to the idea of Crabtree to compliment Avery, but I think we're a bit too high for him at this point.

Andre Smith playing a season at guard doesn't necessarily seem like a waste of money. It could make for a strong o-line in '09.

Also true, especially if Jacob Bell has trouble gaining back the weight he mysteriously lost this season. The Rams could plug Smith in at LG right away to give him some game experience; didn't the Ravens do the same thing initially with Ogden before he slid out to LT? Bell could potentially move to the right side and compete at either guard or tackle.

The big thing on that one is that reports are that the Rams FO thinks he is a fat, lazy, and not built to be a OT...

Interesting. I've heard that opinion from at least one person who covers the team, but I haven't heard it in the context of it being the opinion of the organization.

Halsey
12-16-2008, 11:19 AM
I think he could be. I don't view him as an elite quarterback, but Bulger has shown the ability to play very good football when he has weapons around him. His game has declined the last two seasons for numerous reasons, but he's shown flashes this year of still being able to play at a high level.

The Rams will need to improve the supporting cast for a new QB anyways, so just start the process now and see how Bulger responds.

Not really, which is why I'd advocate drafting a mid round QB whom they can sit and groom for a few seasons. One who doesn't carry the big contract or immediate expectations of a top three passer. One whose contract, when combined with Bulger's, won't hinder the Rams' ability to address their many other needs or who won't be rushed on the field before he's ready because of where he was drafted.

Not so fast. You've given some valid reasons as to why the Rams should look for a young QB of the future, and I agree that they should bring in a young guy. But you've given little reasoning as to why that QB should be taken with the second overall pick specifically.

Anyways, I had this debate with another poster in the Rams team forum, so you might want to check out that discussion there. I doubt we need to debate the pros and cons of such a direction here, especially after Scott's already weighed in.

You don' think the Rams are ok for the long term at QB, so they should draft a mid rounder? You want your team to play it thrifty with the single most important position when they could potentially take an elite talent. If I was a Rams fan I'd want them to take a QB and build the rest of the team with free agents and the other draft picks. A team only has so many opportunities to address the most important position with elite talent.

Halsey
12-16-2008, 11:27 AM
a QB is only as good as the OL blocking in front of him
Nonsense. If that were true Brad Johnson would have played the same as Tony Romo for Dallas. There is a difference between a good QB and a bad QB no matter who is blocking in front of them. The Lions would be fools to take an OT with the 1st pick when they can draft a QB #1 and take an OT later in the first, like Atlanta did.

H.O.O.D
12-16-2008, 11:54 AM
Nonsense. If that were true Brad Johnson would have played the same as Tony Romo for Dallas. There is a difference between a good QB and a bad QB no matter who is blocking in front of them. The Lions would be fools to take an OT with the 1st pick when they can draft a QB #1 and take an OT later in the first, like Atlanta did.

The QB Atlanta got is a much better prospect than Stafford or Bradford.

Tell me how did Tom Brady look in the Superbowl when his OL was getting dominated ? How did Eli Manning look this past Sunday when his line got dominated ? You build in the trenches. And they could address QB in FA with Matt Cassell who would not require time to develop and have the same ups and downs that MOST rookie QB's go through.

bearsfan_51
12-16-2008, 12:08 PM
Why in the world would Matt Cassell choose to go to the Lions??

Someone else will offer him money. Lots of teams need a quarterback.

CJSchneider
12-16-2008, 12:29 PM
#9 49ers- Sam Bradford- Oklahoma - QB

I like your "NFL DRAFT GOLDEN RULE" but I think every rule, has an exception. This one being, don't draft a franchise QB if you cant protect him. Given what you have up until the 49ers, I really see them drafting a DE like Orakpo. I do wonder what the result of the 5 losses prior to Hill taking over at QB would be if he had been there from the start. The eventual draft day decision will make for some interesting conversation no doubt.

#18 Saints -James Laurinaitis- Ohio State-ILB

Based on what I have seen thus far. N.O plans on resigning Vilma as a free agent which will improve our status in the draft and Laurinaitis is a great prospect, a future pro-bowler IMO. However, I see them drafting William Moore if they can not find a way to trade down; this seems to be the plan thus far.

Halsey
12-16-2008, 12:29 PM
The QB Atlanta got is a much better prospect than Stafford or Bradford.

Tell me how did Tom Brady look in the Superbowl when his OL was getting dominated ? How did Eli Manning look this past Sunday when his line got dominated ? You build in the trenches. And they could address QB in FA with Matt Cassell who would not require time to develop and have the same ups and downs that MOST rookie QB's go through.

Matt Ryan looks like the better prospect in hindsight. In fact, he was not. Stafford has been a starter for 3 years. Matt Ryan didn't become Boston College's starter until his 3rd year and was in college for 5 years. If Stafford spent 5 years at UGA he'd probably be the consensus, unquestionable, #1 pick in the draft. Many people thought top 5 was a reach for Ryan.

Tom Brady played well in the Super Bowl and was a big reason it was a close game. That team that beat them and won the Super Bowl. Ya know, the Giants. The Last time they had the #1 pick in the draft, they took the guy who won the Super Bowl MVP. Here's 2facts about the Lions in the Super Bowl era: They've never had a long term franchise QB and they've never been to a Super Bowl. Those 2 facts are likely related.

urinemonkey
12-16-2008, 12:34 PM
Perfect Broncos pick, but they will be picking higher than #21. They will finish 9-7 and not make the Super Bowl, which will give them a pick in the teens, probably as high as #15.

H.O.O.D
12-16-2008, 01:01 PM
Why in the world would Matt Cassell choose to go to the Lions??

Someone else will offer him money. Lots of teams need a quarterback.

Why did Drew Brees choose to go to a 3-13 Saints team ? Why did Nate Clements choose SF ? Why did the Raiders sign anybody last offseason ? The willingness to overpay and or GUARANTEE a TON of MONEY.


Teams that could likely look at him IMHO.

Detroit
Minnesota
Tampa Bay
KC
San Fran
and possibly Buffalo.

AkiliSmith
12-16-2008, 01:27 PM
Why did Drew Brees choose to go to a 3-13 Saints team ? Why did Nate Clements choose SF ? Why did the Raiders sign anybody last offseason ? The willingness to overpay and or GUARANTEE a TON of MONEY.


Teams that could likely look at him IMHO.

Detroit
Minnesota
Tampa Bay
KC
San Fran
and possibly Buffalo.
I have a feeling he will end up in San Fran. Seems like a good fit since he grew up in Cali and went to college there.

CJSchneider
12-16-2008, 01:55 PM
I'd say that is a big NOPE. We've been pleased with Hill's performance under center.

49ersfan_87
12-16-2008, 02:30 PM
Shaun Hill isn't elite but he's efficient enough. His mechanics are shaky and his arm is weak but plain and simple, he plays decently well. Not a franchise QB but he is someone that can start for 1-2 years and be an effective backup afterwards. I have my doubts on Bradford too, doesn't he play in a 1 read and go type of offense? I'd consider Stafford if he fell but not Bradford.

Based on your mock and who is available, i think B.J. Raji, Brian Okrapo, and Jeremy Maclin are much better options. Perhaps William Moore or Taylor Mays as well.

Menardo75
12-16-2008, 02:32 PM
Shaun Hill isn't elite but he's efficient enough. His mechanics are shaky and his arm is weak but plain and simple, he works well in this system. Not a franchise QB but he is someone that can start for 1-2 years and be an effective backup afterwards. I have my doubts on Bradford too, doesn't he play in a 1 read and go type of offense? I'd consider Stafford if he fell but not Bradford.

Based on your mock and who is available, i think B.J. Raqi, Brian Okrapo, and Jeremy Maclin are much better options. Perhaps William Moore or Taylor Mays as well.

Why is he not a franchise QB?

49ersfan_87
12-16-2008, 02:36 PM
Why is he not a franchise QB?

Arm strength. Arm strength is over-rated but his is worse than even Pennington. EG look at the Miami game. His throws were short and wobbly due to the sharp wind. He plays at Candlestick so that might be an issue in the future. He's not really much of a playmaker either. He's efficient and can make some plays but he isn't a star whatsoever.

To be honest, Hill sort of reminds me of Jeff Garcia. Good but never great. I think we'll need a young QB at some point, but not in 2009.

Menardo75
12-16-2008, 02:40 PM
Montana didn't have great arm strength either. Give me another reason. Why is he not a star? Gets out of the pocket throws well on the run.

Go_Eagles77
12-16-2008, 02:58 PM
I love the eagles draft. I'm a little wary about Pettigrew's off the field issues but he can be a great TE. Of course I LOVE Oher at 17, that would be amazing.

DreadedDatSkinsFan
12-16-2008, 03:00 PM
I'm sure that 'feeling' has nothing to do with the fact that you're a Redskins fan.
Being a fan of them doesnt have anything to do w/ the feeling...Although Id be happy if the feeling was correct...

coordinator0
12-16-2008, 03:18 PM
This really is the best mock I have seen out there so far. Every pick is realistic and fits what the teams needs. Good job man, there's a reason that you're one of the most highly regarded draft guru's out there. I have one question though, do you really think that Alphonso Smith will fall all the way down to the Ravens? As a Baltimore fan I would love it but I'm not sure that they would be able to get him, as teams picking before the Ravens need corner backs as well. I've been hyping up Darius Butler for a while on another forum, and I was just wondering if you thought he was a possibility to go in the first.

49ersfan_87
12-16-2008, 03:45 PM
Montana didn't have great arm strength either. Give me another reason. Why is he not a star? Gets out of the pocket throws well on the run.

Please, dont use Montanas name in this debate...

Anyways i edited it, i said he isnt a playmaker either. He's an efficient game manager but at some point we have to upgrade. Just not this year IMO. He is not a star at all.

NGSeiler
12-16-2008, 03:47 PM
You don' think the Rams are ok for the long term at QB, so they should draft a mid rounder?

They certainly shouldn't draft a guy second overall and be forced to play him before he's ready, which is what would happen with a selection that high.

The fact of the matter is they have Bulger under contract, and he's shown flashes of still being efficient. Improve the pieces that will surround a QB, see if you can strike on a mid round guy, and if you can't, you can take a guy high in the draft another year when Bulger's contract is more flexible.

In the meantime, maybe Bulger does something. But a rookie QB without those surrounding pieces isn't going to do anything for the Rams but lose confidence.

Menardo75
12-16-2008, 03:47 PM
Please, dont use Montanas name in this debate...

Anyways i edited it, i said he isnt a playmaker either. He's an efficient game manager but at some point we have to upgrade. Just not this year IMO. He is not a star at all.

Maybe not yet? You still really have not stated any facts to defend yourself. The arm strength argument really is irrelevant. That has not stopped him from having the best record as a starter since Young.

49ersfan_87
12-16-2008, 03:56 PM
Maybe not yet? You still really have not stated any facts to defend yourself. The arm strength argument really is irrelevant. That has not stopped him from having the best record as a starter since Young.

If you dont like my arguements, lets hear yours. Why dont you tell me what makes him a franchise QB in your eyes then? And considering the arm strength was an issue during the dolphins game, it is not irrevelant.

Menardo75
12-16-2008, 03:59 PM
If you dont like my arguements, lets hear yours. Why dont you tell me what makes him a franchise QB in your eyes then? And considering the arm strength was an issue during the dolphins game, it is not irrevelant.

How was it an issue? I think the bigger issue was us getting shut down in the red-zone and having break downs in pass coverage. Well you are saying he is not a frachise QB. I am not saying he is right now. I am saying that there is no reason why he can't be. All he has done is win games, and that's the bottom line for the QB position. I think you need to look beyond physical tools. It helps but it is not esential to being the guy. Other things like winning games, and leadership are far more important.

bearfan
12-16-2008, 04:34 PM
I think I would have to buy a new TV and replace a window if the Bears picked Maclin.

Dont get me wrong, he is a fine player, but I do not think that we need him considering what we have. Wr is a definante need, but a posession reciever would be ideal. Streching the field...awesome, our QB doesnt throw well downfield.

With that said, OL or DE would be ideal picks. I would take William Moore also over Maclin.

Geo
12-16-2008, 04:52 PM
Is Earl Bennett a lost cause?

I thought he was a great pick by the Bears and would work out for them, of course receivers take longer to develop than some other positions.

bearsfan_51
12-16-2008, 04:56 PM
The word is that Bennett is having troubles getting off the line, could be complete conjecture though.

bearfan
12-16-2008, 04:56 PM
Is Earl Bennett a lost cause?

I thought he was a great pick by the Bears and would work out for them, of course receivers take longer to develop than most other positions.

I would say definantly not. The Bears are reluctant to play rookie recievers, so it could be that. The orginization seems to not put rookie WRs out there in their 1st season, or they will do so sparringly. I personally think its stupid that they are keeping players with rock hands out on the field like Rashied Davis when you have a young WR that could show some promise. Maybe its because Davis knows the playbook better, or the fact that the coaches seem to like to play Vets.

I dont think the WR core looks awful for the future:
-Hester
-Bennett
-Lloyd

No studs, but the 1st two are still developing. Add in Olsen, and Desmond Clark as WRs too, because they see so many balls, and we arent terrible. Improvable? Yes. Worst in the league...with Rashied "I drop every 3rd down pass thrown to me" Davis...maybe ;)

bearsfan_51
12-16-2008, 04:59 PM
Why did Drew Brees choose to go to a 3-13 Saints team ? Why did Nate Clements choose SF ? Why did the Raiders sign anybody last offseason ? The willingness to overpay and or GUARANTEE a TON of MONEY.
New Orleans and San Fran don't even remotely compare to the cesspool that is the Detroit Lions. Al Davis has had a terrible time signing free agents as of late. Most players just use him as leverage and then sign somewhere else (see Bernard Berrian). The big moves they've made recently have been seemingly washed up players that nobody else wants (Warren Sapp, Javon Walker), guys they have traded for (Deangelo Hall), or ****** players that they resign.

Furthermore, you think the answer is to drastically overpay and guarantee a player with one year of NFL success with the best coaches and talent in the NFL around him? They'd be better off just drafting Stafford and paying him big money.

Babylon
12-16-2008, 05:00 PM
Please, dont use Montanas name in this debate...

Anyways i edited it, i said he isnt a playmaker either. He's an efficient game manager but at some point we have to upgrade. Just not this year IMO. He is not a star at all.


I was going to say the same thing (don't mention Montana) but i figured i'd let you Niner fans duke it out. Not a big fan of Shaun Hill by the way. If you want mediocrity maybe but my feeling is you build a team to win championships.

Geo
12-16-2008, 05:04 PM
51: Thanks for the info. You wouldn't happen to have made a big board for the Bears, have you? I'd be curious to check it out.

bearfan: I really agree with you that the future of the Bears' receiving core gets a bad rap/overlooked. Hester and Olsen are definitely part of the future, and I would consider Bennett as well although we'll see. Dez Clark, a fine vet who can play a few more years (to which the team has him signed) ... plus there's the TE from Michigan State they drafted, is he still on the roster? A 2-TE set is best for the Bears, I think.

Add in a veteran receiver or two around the vet minimum, and the Bears are okay imo. It's more important that the offensive line and the running game are working imo, especially in the later half of a season and Bears go to work on Soldier Field.

CC.SD
12-16-2008, 06:54 PM
Well, another Mauluga pick. Consensus is too strong...it won't happen. I'm not that lucky.

bearfan
12-16-2008, 09:07 PM
bearfan: I really agree with you that the future of the Bears' receiving core gets a bad rap/overlooked. Hester and Olsen are definitely part of the future, and I would consider Bennett as well although we'll see. Dez Clark, a fine vet who can play a few more years (to which the team has him signed) ... plus there's the TE from Michigan State they drafted, is he still on the roster? A 2-TE set is best for the Bears, I think.


Yeah, Kellen Davis had himself a very very good preseason. If the coaches get their stuff together, we could be very potent at the skills positions. I just hope that the Bears are willing to let them develop, because I have my opinion about the organization that they dont allow for players to do so. Look at the history: Justin Gage...now a decent reciever for the Titans, definantly would have helped. Bobby Wade... a decent slot man. Mark Bradley... left us and then had himself a pretty good run at KC.

The only reciever that we developed, and I remember how much they were putting into him was Bernard Berrian. He was the only reciever I remember that they hyped, and developed into a good player. Then we let him walk (for a rediculous amount of money).

Babylon
12-16-2008, 09:08 PM
Well, another Mauluga pick. Consensus is too strong...it won't happen. I'm not that lucky.


Be careful what you wish for.

Menardo75
12-16-2008, 11:07 PM
I was going to say the same thing (don't mention Montana) but i figured i'd let you Niner fans duke it out. Not a big fan of Shaun Hill by the way. If you want mediocrity maybe but my feeling is you build a team to win championships.

Watch him then we should talk.

Larry
12-17-2008, 12:05 AM
The Niners would likely take Oher over a QB. We need a RT in the worse way.

SuperKevin
12-17-2008, 12:11 AM
The Niners would likely take Oher over a QB. We need a RT in the worse way.

There are quality RT prospects in rounds 2-3 though. Alex Boone, Phil Loadholt, Troy Kropog, and Will Beatty come to mind.

Larry
12-17-2008, 12:16 AM
There are quality RT prospects in rounds 2-3 though. Alex Boone, Phil Loadholt, Troy Kropog, and Will Beatty come to mind.

Oher is way better than any of those guys and he could kick over to left tackle if Staley ever went down.

Texas Homer
12-17-2008, 01:21 AM
I like the pick of Mays for the Texans, but I'm really hoping the Orakpo falls to the Texans.

Maybe the Texans could pick up a good FS in the 2nd round.

Abaddon
12-17-2008, 07:41 AM
If Al croaks before April, this would be the obvious pick for Oakland. Since he probably won't, one can only hope someone can convince him that the entire O-line needs rebuilding.

Breaker
12-17-2008, 01:05 PM
Love the Texan's pick. Once again, awesome Mock, Scott.

CC.SD
12-17-2008, 03:21 PM
Be careful what you wish for.

I always am...ILB is not the Chargers biggest need position wise, but our D has shown absolutely zero intimidation or attitude this year and I've seen enough of Rey to be afraid of him. He's tops on my board, followed by every single one of the OTs.

49ersfan_87
12-17-2008, 10:18 PM
Scott, just curious...did you pick Bradford because you feel that's the best pick? Or is that what you think the 49ers will do?

Scott Wright
12-17-2008, 10:30 PM
Scott, just curious...did you pick Bradford because you feel that's the best pick? Or is that what you think the 49ers will do?

Both

.................

Brent
12-17-2008, 10:31 PM
Hill sort of reminds me of Jeff Garcia. Good but never great
I think Garcia was much better in SF than Hill has been thus far.

OzTitan
12-18-2008, 12:19 AM
No offense Scott, but you've just got to get over the whole 'WR to Titans' thing. How many years is this in a row now? Seriously, it's not going to happen.



;)

Scott Wright
12-18-2008, 12:32 AM
No offense Scott, but you've just got to get over the whole 'WR to Titans' thing. How many years is this in a row now? Seriously, it's not going to happen.



;)

That's what they said about Houston and a left tackle and they finally came through last year!

:)

Geo
12-18-2008, 01:17 AM
Brandon Jones and Justin McCareins are unrestricted free agents after this season, OzTitan! Heh.

Iamcanadian
12-18-2008, 11:10 AM
That's what they said about Houston and a left tackle and they finally came through last year!

:)

If I remember right that is what they said about Al Davis and QB's and also that the new Atlanta GM doesn't believe in drafting QB's in round 1.
For awhile now Tennessee has been rebuilding and needed a lot of help at other positions, now they will be looking for that piece that can put them over the top. So a WR isn't totally out of the question.

Menardo75
12-18-2008, 01:04 PM
I think Garcia was much better in SF than Hill has been thus far.

Hill has a better record than Garcia did up to this point.

Mr. Stiller
12-18-2008, 02:11 PM
I still can't see Duke Robinson in Pittsburgh.

OzTitan
12-18-2008, 04:32 PM
Brandon Jones and Justin McCareins are unrestricted free agents after this season, OzTitan! Heh.

And that's a bad thing? :P

I do kinda like Jones at least I guess. McCareins can take his suspiciously appointed primary target status and drop key passes elsewhere.

Smokey Joe
12-18-2008, 09:43 PM
A few of my thoughts:

Bengals - Chris Wells
With Andre Smith gone and the way it is impossible to trade down if your in the top 5, this pick makes the most sense. OLine is still a major need though.

Jags - Jason Smith
This pick doesn't make much sense to me unless you know something we don't and the Jags are planning on switching over to a ZBS. I like Jason Smith, and OL (especially LT) is a big big need for the Jags, but Smith doesn't fit their system at all. If Monroe is gone here, they should turn their attention to a skill guy like Maclin, or go with either Oher or Eben Britton if he comes out. Trading down is also a realistic possibility for them if Monroe is gone and they don't like Maclin.

Bears - Jeremy Maclin
One word comes to mind here, and that one word isn't even really a word, ewwwwww. While the Bears do need a receiver, another speed type of guy like Maclin is not the answer. With Hester seemingly emerging as a legit threat at WR, it would make a whole lot more sense to get a bigger, more physical WR if we go that route. We don't need another guy like Maclin.

Redskins - Michael Johnson
I see you are still having delusions of Michael Johnson going in the 1st. DE might be an option for the Redskins, but I'd be absolutely shocked if Johnson went in the 1st round. The guy is a classic example of looks like tarzan, plays like jane. Quite simply, he's soft.

Saints - James Laurinaitis
While the Saints could use some help at LB, I think they are set at MLB with Vilma, who they seem to like a lot and will do everything in their power to resign once he becomes a FA. However, they could use an upgrade at WILL, as well as safety or corner. However, I think the Saints are almost a lock to trade down unless they fall in love with someone with their pick.

CashmoneyDrew
12-18-2008, 11:51 PM
I do kinda like Jones at least I guess. McCareins can take his suspiciously appointed primary target status and drop key passes elsewhere.

I'm Voodoomonkey and I approve this message.

Scott Wright
12-19-2008, 12:18 PM
Redskins - Michael Johnson
I see you are still having delusions of Michael Johnson going in the 1st. DE might be an option for the Redskins, but I'd be absolutely shocked if Johnson went in the 1st round. The guy is a classic example of looks like tarzan, plays like jane. Quite simply, he's soft.

I couldn't agree with you more and I wouldn't dream of spending a first round pick on Michael Johnson. However, these mocks are about where I think players will go, not where I think they should.

Regardless of what I think about him Johnson is still considered to be a first round pick.

keylime_5
12-19-2008, 01:20 PM
A few of my thoughts:

Saints - James Laurinaitis
While the Saints could use some help at LB, I think they are set at MLB with Vilma, who they seem to like a lot and will do everything in their power to resign once he becomes a FA. However, they could use an upgrade at WILL, as well as safety or corner. However, I think the Saints are almost a lock to trade down unless they fall in love with someone with their pick.

I think Vilma at mike and Laurinaitis at will would be a really good backbone on the Saints defense. They need playmakers and with Smith, Grant, Ellis, Vilma, and Laurinaitis they would have that.

armageddon
12-19-2008, 05:25 PM
No offense Scott, but you've just got to get over the whole 'WR to Titans' thing. How many years is this in a row now? Seriously, it's not going to happen.



;)


How many SB's have they won ? Maybe it's time for a WR.

Breaker
12-19-2008, 05:32 PM
No offense Scott, but you've just got to get over the whole 'WR to Titans' thing. How many years is this in a row now? Seriously, it's not going to happen.



;)

That's what they said about Houston and a left tackle and they finally came through last year!

:)
Lawls. I was just about to say that after reading OzTitan post... it'll happen sooner or later, the Titans can't keep avoiding destiny.

LonghornsLegend
12-20-2008, 01:46 AM
If I remember right that is what they said about Al Davis and QB's and also that the new Atlanta GM doesn't believe in drafting QB's in round 1.
For awhile now Tennessee has been rebuilding and needed a lot of help at other positions, now they will be looking for that piece that can put them over the top. So a WR isn't totally out of the question.


Not only that, but I think Harvin would be intriguing to Tennessee because he fits the bill of another playmaker for that offense, not necessarily a traditional WR for them to rely on...They can use Harvin a little of everywhere and right now CJ is the only pure playmaker on offense, they need some home run threat at the WR position at some point.

corbi328
12-21-2008, 02:14 PM
I have not seen Maclin play that much, but if he is as good as advertised I would not be upset with this pick for the Bears.

That being said, I am pretty sure the Bears draft a DE or LB in the the first round. As a huge Bears fan this is hard for me to admit, but it is pretty obvious to me that this defense is getting old quick and needs to desperately add playmakers, especially in the front seven. The Bears identity starts with a fierce pass rushing, turnover creating defense and that element is just not there this year. Ogunleye's production is way below expectations given his cap number and he might get cut this offseason, Urlacher is a shadow of his former self and might have only a year or two of decent ball left in him, Mike Brown is a warrior but his body won't let him play with the reckless abandon needed near the line of scrimmage because he will get hurt. Briggs is a stud, Alex Brown always comes to play and the depth at DT is great, especially if Harris recuperates this offseason and plays at 100% next year. Given all of this, I would draft the best pass rushing DE available or, if a DE is not there, I would take an ILB/OLB. A guy like Michael Johnson or Everett Brown would be hard to pass up. If they are not there, take a guy like Laurinatis or Maualuga slot him at MLB and move Urlacher to weak side LB where his career could be extended somewhat.

I realize this still leaves big holes in the OL and at WR. I would fill these in the second/third round with a combination like Herman Johnson from LSU and Brandon Tate from NC. Use the fourth and fifth round to build more depth at LB and safety taking guys like David Bruton from ND and Robert Francois from BC. Plug the remaining gaps by signing a veterna WR like Marvin Harrison to teach our young WRs like Hester, Earl Bennett, Brandon Rideau and Brandon Tate.

corbi328
12-21-2008, 02:24 PM
BearFan,

I don't think our WR situation is as bad as it looks but I can assure you that Lloyd is not part of the future plans. The staff is really down on him and the guy will be a free agent at the end of the year. He will be gone. Hester, Bennett and Rideau are decent pieces to work with but we do need some help. Word is Marvin Harrison will be cut for cap reasons and I know Angelo/Lovie have always loved him dating back to his days at Syracuse. I would not be surprised if the Bears brought him in for a couple of years to add production and be a mentor to the young guys. Essentially the role they had hoped Mushin would fill but never did. Add a young WR like Brandon Tate in the second or third round and all of a sudden our prospects at WR are looking a lot better.

DoctaJ
12-21-2008, 02:43 PM
HI all,

I was wondering if there is a place on the forum/website that lists each team with their Strength of Scheldule (SOS). I am trying to see how each W/L in the next 2 weeks is going to change the draft board. Many thanks :)

Geo
12-21-2008, 03:29 PM
Is this what you're looking for? (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27125)

DoctaJ
12-21-2008, 04:13 PM
Is this what you're looking for? (http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27125)

Awesome :D Thanks!