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Scott Wright
12-17-2008, 12:25 AM
Wow,

Everyone should listen to this 5 minute Tebow interview with Mel Kiper.

He makes it awfully clear that he wants to play quarterback and isn't open to other positions:

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/espnradio/player?id=3770479

EDIT: I guess it's an ESPN Insider deal for those that have it...

Halsey
12-17-2008, 12:33 AM
Good for him. The chance to be drafted and schooled to be an NFL QB doesn't come around every day for every person. If it doesn't work out, try to switch positions later. A guy that talented will find a way to contribute.

Geo
12-17-2008, 12:34 AM
Sounds good to me, I think Tebow can make it.

(Although body type-wise, he does kind of remind me of Dallas Clark.)

The one thing though is that he'd have to fall a bit in the Draft, I think. I probably wouldn't draft him in the first two rounds, but sure I'll take him in the third round.

Flyboy
12-17-2008, 12:35 AM
Good for him.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-17-2008, 12:36 AM
I don't see why someone would settle for being only 25% of a back when they could be 100% of a back.

CashmoneyDrew
12-17-2008, 12:42 AM
I don't see why someone would settle for being only 25% of a back when they could be 100% of a back.

You just blew my mind sir.

Halsey
12-17-2008, 12:47 AM
Tebow has a little Brett Favre in him. As in he's almost too likeable and marketable. He will be the subject of many hot debates to come. Everyone is either having a bromantic relationship with him or doesn't like him. No in between. Even the Heisman voting showed that.

Geason Noceur
12-17-2008, 12:50 AM
He sounded a bit defensive to me. Anyway, the guy is very determined so I wouldn't discount him as a NFL QB just yet. I don't see him getting drafted very high though unless some GM gets enamored with his college production and puts his job on the line by taking such large risk on a project like that.

Scott Wright
12-17-2008, 01:32 AM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.

CashmoneyDrew
12-17-2008, 01:34 AM
Well, I want to be rich and ended up going to MTSU. You can call me the Tim Tebow of Academia.

Shane P. Hallam
12-17-2008, 01:46 AM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment baker going to culinary school.

I cannot listen to it, so I apologize if my comment is moot.

Perhaps his goal to be an NFL QB did not come to fruition until after he was in college. I mean, as an 18 year old, his first goal may have been to be successful at the college level, which he has, and now his sights may be set to the NFL.

I do think he can be successful in the NFL, but in a very specific place and with a very specific regimen to get there. Sitting for 3 to 4 years, developing himself, and working on reads and such. Some GM will fall in love with the hype and the athleticism and say "We can fix him." and take him. They better be prepared for the long haul.

If he is held out, has talent around him, and takes the time to develop, I could see him developing into a Steve Young esque player, but the possibility of a bust at QB is much much much higher for him than most.

CashmoneyDrew
12-17-2008, 01:57 AM
I agree with JBond. He might have came in to college thinking he wanted to be a missionary or something and was just going to use college football as a platform. After some time passed he may have realized he had some kind of future in the pros and his priorties may have shifted. I know I've personally changed my mind about my future career many times since I've been in college.

Geason Noceur
12-17-2008, 02:43 AM
Something that I forgot to add, and that I thought it was funny was when Kiper asked him if he could catch, and he answered, "Well, I catch the ball on every snap" or something to that effect. That right there showed one of the many flags going against him. He's never under center. Ever. I think he has only made one pass from under center during his whole football career. He already takes off running at the feel of a little pressure. What is he going to do when he has to turn his back to the defense, after taking the snap from under center, and he has defenders bearing down on him before he finished dropping back? And with that slow release to top it all off. Not a good combination. Unless a team installs the spread option (how likely is that?), he's going to have to do some major adjustments to the way he plays.

D-Rod
12-17-2008, 02:53 AM
Tampa Bay in the 3rd round. Gruden won't be able to resist. (And yes, I know they have Josh Johnson...)

I'm joking. But actually, it's not totally unfeasible.

LonghornsLegend
12-17-2008, 02:58 AM
I don't know why but I think he makes a great fit in Jacksonville after 2-3 years of grooming, that's an offense that doesn't ask the QB to make many plays with their arm, and relies on the running game, stays in the same state, and I could see him develop into a Garrard-esque player.

Scotty D
12-17-2008, 03:19 AM
Tebow will find a place in the NFL. Offensives in the NFL are evolving. The spread is being used highly in the NFL and its only a matter of time before someone makes it their base offense. If you wanted to implement the wildcat into your offense, I'd look right at Tebow. A guy who couldpotentially run a route like tightend, throw, or run it like a short yardage back. Tebow has exceptional tools, you just have to find a way to maximize them.

Also

INTANGIBLES

Look at him on the sidelines. One time distinctly sticks out to me. In the SEC championship game this year. Tebow ran over to the kick return team and got in each of their faces, firing them up. Right after, the announcer said "now after that how are you not going to run fast". Tebow's a leader. His attitude is something I'd love to have in my franchise quarterback. Guy looks like a straight up douchebag, but I'm highly intrigued by his tools.

Scott Wright
12-17-2008, 03:23 AM
Tampa Bay in the 3rd round. Gruden won't be able to resist. (And yes, I know they have Josh Johnson...)

I'm joking. But actually, it's not totally unfeasible.

The Bucs are going to sign Michael Vick when he's eligible. Mark it down.

WMD
12-17-2008, 03:31 AM
If he comes out this year.. he's going to the Colts or Steelers in the 4th Round!

7-11
12-17-2008, 03:38 AM
The Bucs are going to sign Michael Vick when he's eligible. Mark it down.

Is that educated speculation or something a little more? Intriguing idea.

And on topic, if Tebow comes anywhere near the Colts in the first 4 rounds ill cry.

WMD
12-17-2008, 03:43 AM
Is that educated speculation or something a little more? Intriguing idea.

Let's just say that if Gruden is ever on Sesame Street, that episode will be brought to you by the letters Q and B.

Post #14,000! .... :(

Paranoidmoonduck
12-17-2008, 03:53 AM
Good.

Because he has no shot of making it in the NFL at quarterback unless he's totally committed.

wicket
12-17-2008, 04:16 AM
I'm still saying carolina in the second for him if he goes this year. And yes he bloody well should try and play qb, he is not some d1-aa qb that runs all the time.

Scott Wright
12-17-2008, 04:31 AM
Is that educated speculation or something a little more? Intriguing idea.

Educated guess.

Cigaro
12-17-2008, 06:32 AM
Not open to any other position? Then he better stay at Florida and take it all in, because once he hits the NFL, it's all over for him.

georgiafan
12-17-2008, 07:24 AM
I don't know why but I think he makes a great fit in Jacksonville after 2-3 years of grooming, that's an offense that doesn't ask the QB to make many plays with their arm, and relies on the running game, stays in the same state, and I could see him develop into a Garrard-esque player.

I think he would be better to leave the state of FL for his NFL career. If he goes to a instate school the fans will be calling for him to start the first interception that the stater throws. They pressure might be to strong for him to wait 2-3 years to learn everything.

Buttered toast sonic
12-17-2008, 07:43 AM
I feel like Tebow can be a fantastic QB at the next level, I'd Much rather have a guy with Tebow's correctable problems (mechanics) and a ton of leadership and intangibles, than a guy who has great mechanics but couldn't lead a group of kindergarteners to snack time. Although I do concede Tebow will require at least a year on the bench, maybe more.

bored of education
12-17-2008, 11:27 AM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.

quoted for truth.

the system he was in is not the best to groom your qbing skills for the nfl.

illmatic74
12-17-2008, 11:37 AM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.Cause he wanted to win. He is about to play in his second National Championship game.

Xonraider
12-17-2008, 11:47 AM
I don't see why someone would settle for being only 25% of a back when they could be 100% of a back.

Thats incredibly weird.

dabears10
12-17-2008, 11:48 AM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.

Well Urban Meyer's last quarterback went to the draft and was drafted number one overall. I believe that was the same year correct? And no I am not talking Chris Leak.

BeerBaron
12-17-2008, 12:14 PM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.

I don't know if the failure that is Alex Smith had completely come to fruition when Meyer was recruiting Tebow.

As far as Tebow knew, Meyer's system had just created the first overall draft pick out of Utah no less. Playing in that system at an even better school would have had to help out a lot.....

LonghornsLegend
12-17-2008, 12:42 PM
I think he would be better to leave the state of FL for his NFL career. If he goes to a instate school the fans will be calling for him to start the first interception that the stater throws. They pressure might be to strong for him to wait 2-3 years to learn everything.

I don't think Garrard's in any danger of losing his job for at least that time span, his worst case scenario would be to go somewhere with no reliable option at QB to learn from, and eventually he'll get tossed out there way too soon.

Babylon
12-17-2008, 01:02 PM
I don't know if it's the system, the whole Christian thing or the fact he's lefthanded but this kid takes way too much abuse. He needs to get used to pro style offenses and work on getting some zip on the ball but all QBs at the college level have flaws.

bored of education
12-17-2008, 01:06 PM
Well Urban Meyer's last quarterback went to the draft and was drafted number one overall. I believe that was the same year correct? And no I am not talking Chris Leak.

how is that working out. GM's and teams will learn from that mistake.

BeerBaron
12-17-2008, 01:20 PM
how is that working out. GM's and teams will learn from that mistake.

was already answered there for ya buddy

I don't know if the failure that is Alex Smith had completely come to fruition when Meyer was recruiting Tebow.

As far as Tebow knew, Meyer's system had just created the first overall draft pick out of Utah no less. Playing in that system at an even better school would have had to help out a lot.....

Staubach12
12-17-2008, 01:21 PM
He's not going to play QB well in the NFL, and I think it reflects poorly on him if he's going to be stubborn about it.

drowe
12-17-2008, 01:22 PM
Yeah, it seems to me that the Dolphins starting this wildcat trend is gonna end up making Tim Tebow a lot of money. If a team is as committed to using Tebow correctly as he is to playing QB, it could work out.

A team could work him in the same way Florida worked him in. bring him into the game in some specific situations and gradually ease him in as the full time starter.

But, i'm sure some team full of morons will decide he should be a straight up pocket passer.

Ward
12-17-2008, 01:36 PM
But, i'm sure some team full of morons will decide he should be a straight up pocket passer.

Unfortunately for the NFL, the fans, and Tim Tebow, we have multiple franchises full of morons. I won't name them so I don't start a flame war, but there's a couple in the mid-west, and a couple on the west coast just to start with a few.

CC.SD
12-17-2008, 03:24 PM
I don't see why someone would settle for being only 25% of a back when they could be 100% of a back.

Well, this might just be the greatest post in NFLDC history.

dabears10
12-17-2008, 03:34 PM
how is that working out. GM's and teams will learn from that mistake.

Oh I am not saying he deserves to be a top pick, I am just saying that the basis of getting to be a professional quarterback could be sold by Urban Meyer's QB at Utah being picked number one in the Draft.

bored of education
12-17-2008, 03:41 PM
I don't see why someone would settle for being only 25% of a back when they could be 100% of a back.

best post ever

PACKmanN
12-17-2008, 04:07 PM
I think the best chance for him is for the Colts to draft him. He gets to learn under Manning, gets thought from both Jim Caldwell and Tom Moore. Plus he has the benefits of playing in an offense that suits him pretty well.

illmatic74
12-17-2008, 04:10 PM
I think the best chance for him is for the Colts to draft him. He gets to learn under Manning, gets thought from both Jim Caldwell and Tom Moore. Plus he has the benefits of playing in an offense that suits him pretty well.But Jim Sorgi is the future.

nhlkdog411
12-17-2008, 04:42 PM
I don't see why someone would settle for being only 25% of a back when they could be 100% of a back.

you're the man...and i think have the people here didn't get it either haha

BeerBaron
12-17-2008, 04:44 PM
you're the man...and i think have the people here didn't get it either haha

I got it....why play Quarterback when you can play fullback.

jnew76
12-17-2008, 04:52 PM
If Tebow wants to play QB, I think he needs to declare now. He needs to hire a QB coach from January 9th through draft day and begin to work on his transformation into an NFL signal caller. He faces a lot of challenges and adversity in order to succeed at the pro level. IMO he cannot afford to spend another year in the Florida offense if he hopes to play QB in the NFL.

One thing I will never do is say that Tim Tebow cannot do something he puts his mind to. I firmly believe he will play QB in the NFL if he makes the commitment to do so.

He has the athletic ability and the skills to develop. He has the work ethic and drive to be successful. While I would not take him before the 4th round, I would draft him.

Geo
12-17-2008, 05:38 PM
I think the best chance for him is for the Colts to draft him. He gets to learn under Manning, gets thought from both Jim Caldwell and Tom Moore. Plus he has the benefits of playing in an offense that suits him pretty well.
Personally, I would absolutely draft Tebow with the Colts' third round pick. Even though his rookie deal would probably run out while Manning is still playing, I don't think you pass him up at that point. I love the guy and would want him on my team any day.

However I suspect he wouldn't fall that far, and I don't think I would pull the trigger in the second round. Second rounders are a different story, that's likely starter-territory in terms of prospects.

Menardo75
12-17-2008, 06:59 PM
I still think Tebow will be a very good TE for somebody.

sbh15
12-17-2008, 07:00 PM
Personally, I would absolutely draft Tebow with the Colts' third round pick. Even though his rookie deal would probably run out while Manning is still playing, I don't think you pass him up at that point. I love the guy and would want him on my team any day.

However I suspect he wouldn't fall that far, and I don't think I would pull the trigger in the second round. Second rounders are a different story, that's likely starter-territory in terms of prospects.

Tebow + Moore = jizz in my pants

7-11
12-17-2008, 07:08 PM
Tebow + Moore = jizz in my pants

Tom Moore is so horribly overrated it makes me sick. That offense is Peyton's doing, and Peyton's doing alone.

Mouse
12-17-2008, 07:21 PM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.

Alex Smith and Josh Harris both made it to the NFL , I know they aren't great players but neither is Kyle Boller or Matt Leinart and they played in the Pro Style offense in college

BBIB
12-18-2008, 01:29 PM
Wow,

Everyone should listen to this 5 minute Tebow interview with Mel Kiper.

He makes it awfully clear that he wants to play quarterback and isn't open to other positions:

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/espnradio/player?id=3770479

EDIT: I guess it's an ESPN Insider deal for those that have it...

It's freaking ridiculous that some people find that surprising.

The guy's top 5 in the nation in passing efficiency 2 years in a row and people think he's a FB or a TE? How many downs of his football career has he ever played those positions? And exactly how the hell has he proved that he could make that transition?

It's completely ridiculous.

But people have been saying it so often that it's basically become cliche

BBIB
12-18-2008, 01:33 PM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.

That argument makes no sense. Has Urban Meyer had a legacy of sending dozens of QBs to the NFL who failed?

The last guy he had was a #1 pick. How would Tim Tebow know that guy would be a bust and that everything Tim did would be held to that standard?

If Tebow wants to play QB, I think he needs to declare now. He needs to hire a QB coach from January 9th through draft day and begin to work on his transformation into an NFL signal caller. He faces a lot of challenges and adversity in order to succeed at the pro level. IMO he cannot afford to spend another year in the Florida offense if he hopes to play QB in the NFL.

One thing I will never do is say that Tim Tebow cannot do something he puts his mind to. I firmly believe he will play QB in the NFL if he makes the commitment to do so.

He has the athletic ability and the skills to develop. He has the work ethic and drive to be successful. While I would not take him before the 4th round, I would draft him.

My goodness. I would think Tim Tebow threw as many interceptions as touchdowns going by how hopeless some of you make him seem as a passer.

Ward
12-18-2008, 01:44 PM
The argument makes sense if you consider that Meyer has only sent 2 quarterbacks to the NFL period, and neither one has had even mediocre success. So if you thought about it, it would have made sense. If you didn't think about it, it wouldn't.

BBIB
12-18-2008, 01:50 PM
The argument makes sense if you consider that Meyer has only sent 2 quarterbacks to the NFL period, and neither one has had even mediocre success. So if you thought about it, it would have made sense. If you didn't think about it, it wouldn't.

Actually it makes none because Alex Smith was a bust well after Tebow was committed to Florida.

Not to mention using that one recruit of Meyer as an example that his guys will fail in the NFL is absurd.

I guess Stafford and Bradford are doomed for failure too.

We're not just talking one guy, and unlike Tebow we aren't talking about a different school.

We're talking same school several players and none of them have panned out.


But of course those guys aren't held to that ridiculous standard

SuperKevin
12-18-2008, 01:59 PM
We get in BBIB, you have a thing for running QBs. You hopelessly support Mike Vick as a QB despite the fact he is only average as a QB and now you're doing the same thing with Tebow. Tebow's passing efficiency is a product of the system. Plain and Simple. Put Tebow on a pro style offense and you'll have...well you'll pretty much have Vince Young(who's not good so don't tell us that he is)

BBIB
12-18-2008, 06:09 PM
We get in BBIB, you have a thing for running QBs. You hopelessly support Mike Vick as a QB despite the fact he is only average as a QB and now you're doing the same thing with Tebow. Tebow's passing efficiency is a product of the system. Plain and Simple. Put Tebow on a pro style offense and you'll have...well you'll pretty much have Vince Young(who's not good so don't tell us that he is)

I never was a fan of Vince Young. He was a one year wonder as a passer at Texas. He didn't even have more TDs than INTs going into his Junior season.

The way people talk about Tebow, I'd think he was that inept as a passer.

I fail to see what Vick has to do with Tebow. I supported Vick because I was a Falcon fan. But I guess it just goes to show you how much some people can't stand dual threat QBs considering how they make statements like Vick was an average QB despite the fact that he was top 10 in the league in TDs 3 of his 4 years as a starter (and did so with a far inferior cast than his peers)

To compare Tebow to Vince Young is laughable. You're comparing them just because they run a variation of an offense while in college. But if that is all that is needed to compare a QB then I guess I can compare any pocket QB to another pocket QB then huh?

I guess Gus Frerrotte is comparable to Peyton Manning. They both sit in the pocket. That's all that's needed to compare right?

I guess I can compare Matthew Stafford to any pocket QB in the past?

I guess I can compare Sam Bradford to any pocket QB in the past?

Hell for those guys why not compare them to their predecessors like everyone loves to do with Tebow?

Stafford the next Greene, Shockley, or Zeier.

Bradford the next Heupel or White

illmatic74
12-18-2008, 06:28 PM
I never was a fan of Vince Young. He was a one year wonder as a passer at Texas. He didn't even have more TDs than INTs going into his Junior season.

The way people talk about Tebow, I'd think he was that inept as a passer.

I fail to see what Vick has to do with Tebow. I supported Vick because I was a Falcon fan. But I guess it just goes to show you how much some people can't stand dual threat QBs considering how they make statements like Vick was an average QB despite the fact that he was top 10 in the league in TDs 3 of his 4 years as a starter (and did so with a far inferior cast than his peers)

To compare Tebow to Vince Young is laughable. You're comparing them just because they run a variation of an offense while in college. But if that is all that is needed to compare a QB then I guess I can compare any pocket QB to another pocket QB then huh?

I guess Gus Frerrotte is comparable to Peyton Manning. They both sit in the pocket. That's all that's needed to compare right?

I guess I can compare Matthew Stafford to any pocket QB in the past?

I guess I can compare Sam Bradford to any pocket QB in the past?

Hell for those guys why not compare them to their predecessors like everyone loves to do with Tebow?

Stafford the next Greene, Shockley, or Zeier.

Bradford the next Heupel or White The reason why Tim Tebow is downgraded as a prospect is not only for his offensive system. But his terrible mechanics, his Andre Woodson slow release and his terrible touch.

Also David Greene was a QB who was a great decision maker with no arm strength. Shockley was a QB with good mobility but nothing else. Stafford has Greene's decision making with Shockley's mobility also he has great arm strength and mechanics.

Jason White and Todd Heupel were very slow with zero arm strength. Bradford is the exact opposite.

Bucs_Rule
12-18-2008, 09:24 PM
He sounded a bit defensive to me. Anyway, the guy is very determined so I wouldn't discount him as a NFL QB just yet. I don't see him getting drafted very high though unless some GM gets enamored with his college production and puts his job on the line by taking such large risk on a project like that.

He has to be. IF he gave a hint that he would accept playing a different role a team could draft him and never give him the chance to play QB.

Plus he's probably very frustrated that with all his success at college people doubt that could be an NFL QB.

Ward
12-18-2008, 11:05 PM
I never was a fan of Vince Young. He was a one year wonder as a passer at Texas. He didn't even have more TDs than INTs going into his Junior season.

The way people talk about Tebow, I'd think he was that inept as a passer.

I fail to see what Vick has to do with Tebow. I supported Vick because I was a Falcon fan. But I guess it just goes to show you how much some people can't stand dual threat QBs considering how they make statements like Vick was an average QB despite the fact that he was top 10 in the league in TDs 3 of his 4 years as a starter (and did so with a far inferior cast than his peers)

To compare Tebow to Vince Young is laughable. You're comparing them just because they run a variation of an offense while in college. But if that is all that is needed to compare a QB then I guess I can compare any pocket QB to another pocket QB then huh?

I guess Gus Frerrotte is comparable to Peyton Manning. They both sit in the pocket. That's all that's needed to compare right?

I guess I can compare Matthew Stafford to any pocket QB in the past?

I guess I can compare Sam Bradford to any pocket QB in the past?

Hell for those guys why not compare them to their predecessors like everyone loves to do with Tebow?

Stafford the next Greene, Shockley, or Zeier.

Bradford the next Heupel or White

http://www.wilddamntexan.com/kids/demotivators/Strawman.jpg

BBIB
12-19-2008, 11:12 AM
The reason why Tim Tebow is downgraded as a prospect is not only for his offensive system. But his terrible mechanics, his Andre Woodson slow release and his terrible touch.

Also David Greene was a QB who was a great decision maker with no arm strength. Shockley was a QB with good mobility but nothing else. Stafford has Greene's decision making with Shockley's mobility also he has great arm strength and mechanics.

Jason White and Todd Heupel were very slow with zero arm strength. Bradford is the exact opposite.

Of course Stafford and Bradford are physically different than their predecessors.

But they are not held to the same standard as Tebow who is compared to one guy before him who has a completely different set of physical tools as well.

You can't differentiate the physical tools of those guys and hypocritically call Tim Tebow a carbon copy of Alex Smith when they are just as different as Stafford, Bradford, and their predecessors. Those guys are evaluated on a case by case basis and Tebow is not.

That is the epitome of hypocrisy

BBIB
12-19-2008, 11:17 AM
The argument makes sense if you consider that Meyer has only sent 2 quarterbacks to the NFL period, and neither one has had even mediocre success. So if you thought about it, it would have made sense. If you didn't think about it, it wouldn't.

Substitute Meyer for Bob Stoops or Mark Richt and notice your hypocrisy.

SuperKevin
12-19-2008, 11:59 AM
Substitute Meyer for Bob Stoops or Mark Richt and notice your hypocrisy.

Except that neither Bob Stoops or Mark Richt developed a gimmicky offense that won't translate to the pros.

bored of education
12-19-2008, 12:18 PM
Except that neither Bob Stoops or Mark Richt developed a gimmicky offense that won't translate to the pros.

exactly. wow BBIB is sounding worse than starheather

BBIB
12-19-2008, 12:44 PM
Except that neither Bob Stoops or Mark Richt developed a gimmicky offense that won't translate to the pros.

His whole argument was that Meyer hasn't sent a successful QB to the pros.

That argument is moot because neither have Stoops or Richt.

Then your defense of his false argument is that UF runs a gimmicky offense.

That argument is moot because there have been QBs in offenses considered gimmicky that have gone on to have success.

SuperKevin
12-19-2008, 12:47 PM
Well how do we know their offenses translate to the pros? Using the same standard, they have sent QBs to the pros and they have failed.

See you have to make up all these qualifying arguments just to support your ridiculous hypocritical standards you are setting

Georgia runs a lot of their plays under center allowing Stafford to get valuable repetition and work at center exchanges that he'll need for the NFL. Oklahoma was the same way while Chuck Long was there but has since spread it out a bit.

I for one never said I though Sam Bradford was 100% NFL ready. Until I see him play under center I'll have doubts about him as well but mechanically he's miles ahead of Tebow at this point.

SuperKevin
12-19-2008, 12:48 PM
His whole argument was that Meyer hasn't sent a successful QB to the pros.

That argument is moot because neither have Stoops or Richt.

Then your defense of his false argument is that UF runs a gimmicky offense.

That argument is moot because there have been QBs in offenses considered gimmicky that have gone on to have success.

Yes and none of those QBs had ridiculously slow releases or the poor footwork that Tim Tebow has. Tim Tebow may EVENTUALLY be able to play QB in the NFL but as it stands right now, that time is probably 4-5 years down the line at best.

Babylon
12-19-2008, 01:09 PM
Of course Stafford and Bradford are physically different than their predecessors.

But they are not held to the same standard as Tebow who is compared to one guy before him who has a completely different set of physical tools as well.

You can't differentiate the physical tools of those guys and hypocritically call Tim Tebow a carbon copy of Alex Smith when they are just as different as Stafford, Bradford, and their predecessors. Those guys are evaluated on a case by case basis and Tebow is not.

That is the epitome of hypocrisy

I agree with you that there is a double standard here. His future should be determined by his ability to make pro type throws and his ability to run a team at the next level. Personally i think his mechanics and footwork arent as bad as people make it out to be. Arm strength is not great but neither is a lot of NFL types either.

djp
12-19-2008, 01:54 PM
Tebow has the raw tools to succeed in the NFL.. it would take him AT LEAST 3 years with a GREAT qb coach to become or resemble an NFL quarterback..

Think about this. Every single time Tebow gets pressured, he struggles. Look at the Miami game. Even his touchdowns were bad throws. I have the tape on my computer right now. He was pressured the entire game up until midway through the 4th quarter and he looked like a D2 QB throwing the ball. His first touchdown was an absolute duck that Hernandez made a play on.

He underthrew 7 receivers in that game. Quick button hooks/ins/outs. Ball hit the ground. What does that tell you? He struggles against pressure. Four of them were being hit while he loaded the bazooka. What does that tell you in translation to the NFL game? They come stronger, harder, and faster in the NFL... they won't be intimidated by Tebow like the rest of college football.

Let's move onto the Ole Miss game -- 3rd and 5 from the 50 yard line, trailing in the 4th quarter. Tebow takes the snap and sees a WIDE OPEN Louis Murphy 15 yards down field... overthrown by 5-7 yards (it was a duck as well). Throws like that in critical situations stick out in the minds of draftniks, scouts, and GM's everywhere.

Don't get me wrong here. Tebow is one of, if not, arguably the best college players of all time. He's absolutely perfect for the Gators system. He's a phenomenal leader and possesses the best intangibles I have seen in a long time. But he's not an NFL quarterback.

And by the way, Michael Vick has some of the highest numbers of passing efficiency in college history.

yourfavestoner
12-19-2008, 02:05 PM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.

Well, to be fair, Meyer had just recently made Alex Smith the top overall pick in the draft.

During the offseason, I made a pretty long post about Tebow and his draft prospectus. The main point of it was that his draft stock was directly tied into Alex Smith's performance this season. And we all know how Alex Smith's season went.

In comparison to Smith, Tebow is a much, much, MUCH better athlete with a stronger arm. Smith, however, was much more intelligent and given more in terms of reads than Tebow was.

I've watched almost every down Tebow has played in the past three years, and, to be honest, I still don't know what to make of him as an NFL player. His footwork is terrible. His slow release isn't as bad as people make it seem. The problem with his release comes in the way that he flicks his wrist. It's a problem that a LOT of lefties have, and it causes their balls to either sail to drive straight into the ground. Also, you have to remember that in college, Tebow has been a play-action fake unto himself. All he has to do is step forward a step after the snap and you'll see the linebackers and safeties flying upfield, leaving receivers wide open all over the place.

On the other hand, I can honestly say I've seen the guy make more incredible, game-changing plays and throws than any other player I've ever watched. The thing that makes him special really is his strength of will - and that goes way further than a lot of physical attributes when it comes to who makes it and who doesn't in the NFL. Everybody has physical ability once you get to the big leagues. If he has the mental ability to pick up and learn an NFL scheme, the kid will be an absolute baller within two years. He'll learn all the footwork and mechanics and ****. It's the mental side of the game that has me worried for him as a prospect.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:12 PM
Yes and none of those QBs had ridiculously slow releases or the poor footwork that Tim Tebow has. Tim Tebow may EVENTUALLY be able to play QB in the NFL but as it stands right now, that time is probably 4-5 years down the line at best.

So you telling me you followed the footwork of McNabb in the option at Syracuse?

How about Alabama St and Tarvaris Jackson and his footwork? (The verdict is still out on him but he was still drafted as a QB regardless)

How about the footwork of Vince Young at Texas? (Still drafted as a QB)

How about the footwork of Brees/Orton in the shotgun?

How about the footwork of Flacco or Big Ben?

You honestly telling me you assessed the mechanics of all those guys in college vs Tebow?

Of course not. You guys are making stuff up to try to disqualify the guy from being a pro QB.

Menardo75
12-19-2008, 02:16 PM
So you telling me you followed the footwork of McNabb in the option at Syracuse?

How about Alabama St and Tarvaris Jackson and his footwork? (The verdict is still out on him but he was still drafted as a QB regardless)

How about the footwork of Vince Young at Texas? (Still drafted as a QB)

How about the footwork of Brees/Orton in the shotgun?

How about the footwork of Flacco or Big Ben?

You honestly telling me you assessed the mechanics of all those guys in college vs Tebow?

Of course not. You guys are making stuff up to try to disqualify the guy from being a pro QB.

No we sare stating facts from what we have seen. If you watch Tebow he is very lazy with his feet. All the guys you mentioned had/have better footwork. Yes even Vince, was not great by any means, but good enough.

Are you seriously going to try and compare his technique to Drew Brees? Get outa here man Brees has some of the best footwork in the NFL.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:16 PM
Tebow has the raw tools to succeed in the NFL.. it would take him AT LEAST 3 years with a GREAT qb coach to become or resemble an NFL quarterback..

Think about this. Every single time Tebow gets pressured, he struggles. Look at the Miami game. Even his touchdowns were bad throws. I have the tape on my computer right now. He was pressured the entire game up until midway through the 4th quarter and he looked like a D2 QB throwing the ball. His first touchdown was an absolute duck that Hernandez made a play on.

He underthrew 7 receivers in that game. Quick button hooks/ins/outs. Ball hit the ground. What does that tell you? He struggles against pressure. Four of them were being hit while he loaded the bazooka. What does that tell you in translation to the NFL game? They come stronger, harder, and faster in the NFL... they won't be intimidated by Tebow like the rest of college football.

Let's move onto the Ole Miss game -- 3rd and 5 from the 50 yard line, trailing in the 4th quarter. Tebow takes the snap and sees a WIDE OPEN Louis Murphy 15 yards down field... overthrown by 5-7 yards (it was a duck as well). Throws like that in critical situations stick out in the minds of draftniks, scouts, and GM's everywhere.

Don't get me wrong here. Tebow is one of, if not, arguably the best college players of all time. He's absolutely perfect for the Gators system. He's a phenomenal leader and possesses the best intangibles I have seen in a long time. But he's not an NFL quarterback.

And by the way, Michael Vick has some of the highest numbers of passing efficiency in college history.

MOST QBs struggle when they opponents get pressured even in the NFL. Why did the Chargers used to give Manning fits?

Why did the Dolphins use to give Brady fits?

They got PRESSURE.

There is only so much a QB can do if the other team gets pressure before their receivers get open. Unless the QB can improvise like Vick.

Speaking of which, Vick was high in efficiency for ONE SEASON. And he still was taken as a QB.

There has never been a QB with elite ranking of efficiency that was projected at another position.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:18 PM
No we sare stating facts from what we have seen. If you watch Tebow he is very lazy with his feet. All the guys you mentioned had/have better footwork. Yes even Vince, was not great by any means, but good enough.

Are you seriously going to try and compare his technique to Drew Brees? Get outa here man Brees has some of the best footwork in the NFL.

Are you seriously telling me you followed Miami Ohio with Big Ben, Alabama ST with Tarvaris, Orton at Purdue, etc?

I don't like to call people liars, but come on. You did not follow those guys footwork and I guarantee you that just like every rookie QB especially one not coming from a conventional offense, needed work.

Furthermore, things like footwork are skills that have to be refined. They are not physical deficiencies that cannot be corrected. And to doubt someone with the work ethic of Tebow cannot correct them with proper coaching is even more absurd.

JRTPlaya21
12-19-2008, 02:20 PM
Tebow has the raw tools to succeed in the NFL.. it would take him AT LEAST 3 years with a GREAT qb coach to become or resemble an NFL quarterback..

Think about this. Every single time Tebow gets pressured, he struggles. Look at the Miami game. Even his touchdowns were bad throws. I have the tape on my computer right now. He was pressured the entire game up until midway through the 4th quarter and he looked like a D2 QB throwing the ball. His first touchdown was an absolute duck that Hernandez made a play on.

He underthrew 7 receivers in that game. Quick button hooks/ins/outs. Ball hit the ground. What does that tell you? He struggles against pressure. Four of them were being hit while he loaded the bazooka. What does that tell you in translation to the NFL game? They come stronger, harder, and faster in the NFL... they won't be intimidated by Tebow like the rest of college football.

Let's move onto the Ole Miss game -- 3rd and 5 from the 50 yard line, trailing in the 4th quarter. Tebow takes the snap and sees a WIDE OPEN Louis Murphy 15 yards down field... overthrown by 5-7 yards (it was a duck as well). Throws like that in critical situations stick out in the minds of draftniks, scouts, and GM's everywhere.

Don't get me wrong here. Tebow is one of, if not, arguably the best college players of all time. He's absolutely perfect for the Gators system. He's a phenomenal leader and possesses the best intangibles I have seen in a long time. But he's not an NFL quarterback.

And by the way, Michael Vick has some of the highest numbers of passing efficiency in college history.

Better then Herschel, Barry, Bo, Dorsett, Doak, Grange, Baugh, Thorpe, or Earl Campbell? I think not.

Menardo75
12-19-2008, 02:21 PM
Are you seriously telling me you followed Miami Ohio with Big Ben, Alabama ST with Tarvaris, Orton at Purdue, etc?

I don't like to call people liars, but come on. You did not follow those guys footwork and I guarantee you that just like every rookie QB especially one not coming from a conventional offense, needed work.

Furthermore, things like footwork are skills that have to be refined. They are not physical deficiencies that cannot be corrected. And to doubt someone with the work ethic of Tebow cannot correct them with proper coaching is even more absurd.

Actually yeah I did I am a football fan. I watch football play it and like to look at how the pros do things and see what their technique is like, weird how that works.

If you would like I can describe how I evaluated everyone's technique when they were in college.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:22 PM
Better then Herschel, Barry, Bo, Dorsett, Doak, Grange, Baugh, Thorpe, or Earl Campbell? I think not.

Obviously to be mentioned with those guys he'd have to win the NC and probably come back another year and have another Heisman-esque season.

But that's a different argument entirely.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:23 PM
Actually yeah I did I am a football fan. I watch football play it and like to look at how the pros do things and see what their technique is like, weird how that works.

If you would like I can describe how I evaluated everyone's technique when they were in college.

Ok let's start with this guy:


NEGATIVES: Erratic with his accuracy and usually high off the mark or behind receivers. Shaky under pressure, rarely sets his feet and takes off out of the pocket too quickly.

Guess who that was?

Menardo75
12-19-2008, 02:25 PM
Sounds like Tebow. Could be Vince Young also.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:27 PM
Sounds like Tebow.

Exactly. And this guy not only played in a gimmicky offense, he played at the D-1AA level. Yet he was STILL drafted as a QB.

It's Tarvaris Jackson. And if that guy can play QB in the NFL, then dang it Tebow can.

Now obviously Jackson is not an above average QB, or some would say he's not even good enough to be considered average, but he was still taken as a QB.


Tebow deserves a shot to at least be taken as a QB

Menardo75
12-19-2008, 02:28 PM
Exactly. And this guy not only played in a gimmicky offense, he played at the D-1AA level. Yet he was STILL drafted as a QB.

It's Tarvaris Jackson. And if that guy can play QB in the NFL, then dang it Tebow can.

Now obviously Jackson is not an above average QB, or some would say he's not even good enough to be considered average, but he was still taken as a QB.


Tebow deserves a shot to at least be taken as a QB

Michael Robinson also said he was going to play QB in the NFL.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:30 PM
Michael Robinson also said he was going to play QB in the NFL.

Michael Robinson was ranked an average of 80th in efficiency in his two years as a starter.

All those guys who swtiched to WR like Robinson, Stanback, Cribbs, Randle El, etc were terrible in efficiency.

The closest guy to having a SINGLE SEASON ranked in the top 20 was Matt Jones.

None of those guys even ranked in a single season in the top 20, let alone a career.

The closest dual threat guys to the top 25 for a career were Vince Young and Dixon and they both were drafted as QB. Young ranked an avg of 34th during his career, Dixon 33rd. This is despite the fact that they both were one year wonders at QB who had as many INTs as TDs going into their final year of their career as a QB. And despite the fact that Dixon actually got hurt and didn't even finish his season.

Tebow is 2nd among active QBs for a career, yet he has to switch positions. Preposterous standard he's being held to that no QB has ever been held to before.

Menardo75
12-19-2008, 02:32 PM
Michael Robinson was ranked an average of 80th in efficiency in his two years as a starter.

All those guys who swtiched to WR like Robinson, Stanback, Cribbs, Randle El, etc were terrible in efficiency.

The closest guy to having a SINGLE SEASON ranked in the top 20 was Matt Jones.

None of those guys even ranked in a single season in the top 20, let alone a career.

Tebow is 2nd among active QBs for a career, yet he has to switch positions. Preposterous standard he's being held to that no QB has ever been held to before.

Robinson was also a Hiesman Candidate, and led his team to a BCS bowl. Honestly as far as talent goes as a QB they are not much different. Tebow might have a little stronger arm and a little more touch, but thats it.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:38 PM
Robinson was also a Hiesman Candidate, and led his team to a BCS bowl. Honestly as far as talent goes as a QB they are not much different. Tebow might have a little stronger arm and a little more touch, but thats it.

Michael Robinson had twice as many INTs as TDs going into his final year at Penn St.

He was barely in the top 60 in terms of efficiency the one year they had all that success.

Comparing Michael Robinson and Tim Tebow is as random as comparing Matthew Stafford and Chris Weinke

You guys insist on comparing Tebow to guys who were completely inept at passing the football even at the college level, well before they even reached the NFL

SuperKevin
12-19-2008, 02:43 PM
BBIB, congrats on pointing out that Minnesota drafted Tavaris Jackson to play QB and it was probably the worst pick of that draft and that pick alone will set Minnesota back years. If I'm an NFL team that's exactly what I want to happen if I draft Tim Tebow.

YAYareaRB
12-19-2008, 03:08 PM
Robinson didn't have the targets Tebow has. Williams and Norwood were iffy every week.

Shane P. Hallam
12-19-2008, 03:13 PM
BBIB, congrats on pointing out that Minnesota drafted Tavaris Jackson to play QB and it was probably the worst pick of that draft and that pick alone will set Minnesota back years. If I'm an NFL team that's exactly what I want to happen if I draft Tim Tebow.

Hey now, don't forget they traded up for him with the Steelers! Haha.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 04:28 PM
Robinson didn't have the targets Tebow has. Williams and Norwood were iffy every week.

They were only iffy because Robinson was a terrible passer. Darryl Clark looks much better with the same targets. The guy barely throws more TDs than INTs in his career, has twice as many of those picks as TDs before his last season, and you think it wasn't him. Hilarious.

And you actually think he'd put up comparable numbers to Tebow with the same targets. Even more hilarious

BBIB
12-19-2008, 04:33 PM
BBIB, congrats on pointing out that Minnesota drafted Tavaris Jackson to play QB and it was probably the worst pick of that draft and that pick alone will set Minnesota back years. If I'm an NFL team that's exactly what I want to happen if I draft Tim Tebow.

Set them back years? It's not like they gave the guy 40 million guaranteed.

Even if he doesn't succeed which he very well still can, with the team they have there, they easily sign a QB in FA and become title contenders.

And the point is he was still drafted as a QB. So have many other guys hwo didn't play in a pro style offense.


Tell me, was Flacco in the D-1AA in a shotgun based offense, being prepared for the NFL? How about Big Ben in the same offense? Or how about McNabb when he was running the option at Syracuse?

You think these guys had elite level of footwork at the time? Laughable

renegade
12-19-2008, 04:52 PM
If he WANTS to make a paycheck he better play any position the team might want him to play.

I like him as a QB and he has all the intangibles I want in my team's starting QB, he is a tough, hard nosed, smash mouth, great citizen, motivator and he is flashy. He can rally a team and he works hard.

But he lacks the basic mechanics that are needed to succeed as a QB in the NFL, he doesn't read defenses well, his deep ball can be spotty, his release is slow and his accuracy is iffy at times. He also isn't comfortable in the pocket and moves around almost to much and doesn't have much pocket presence. One thing he does do well is he can throw the ball deep with little effort and has nice arm strength.

Overall, he has all the intangible tools, but the fundamentals lack. He will not be a top 20 pick due to the fact that he will not be able to come in and produce right away, and it may take as long as 3-4 years to correct the flaws. He will be taken round 1 by some team willing to take the time to wait it out while he learns behind a veteran QB. Also for all the people who say "He won't be able to run the way he runs in college in the NFL" A QB who is 6'3" and 240 pounds and is built like a truck will be able to run anyway they want to.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-19-2008, 05:05 PM
If he WANTS to make a paycheck he better play any position the team might want him to play.

I like him as a QB and he has all the intangibles I want in my team's starting QB, he is a tough, hard nosed, smash mouth, great citizen, motivator and he is flashy. He can rally a team and he works hard.

But he lacks the basic mechanics that are needed to succeed as a QB in the NFL, he doesn't read defenses well, his deep ball can be spotty, his release is slow and his accuracy is iffy at times. He also isn't comfortable in the pocket and moves around almost to much and doesn't have much pocket presence. One thing he does do well is he can throw the ball deep with little effort and has nice arm strength.

Overall, he has all the intangible tools, but the fundamentals lack. He will not be a top 20 pick due to the fact that he will not be able to come in and produce right away, and it may take as long as 3-4 years to correct the flaws. He will be taken round 1 by some team willing to take the time to wait it out while he learns behind a veteran QB. Also for all the people who say "He won't be able to run the way he runs in college in the NFL" A QB who is 6'3" and 240 pounds and is built like a truck will be able to run anyway they want to.

The problem is that NFL LBs are huge. And faster than NCAA ones. That combo=Tebow death.

Personally, I think the ideal running style by a college QB for the NFL is VY. Vick was fast, but it seemed like that was all he had. Tebow is a bruiser. VY actually ran like a runningback, using his size to overpower smaller guys, his speed moves and speed to beat the bigger guys. God I miss watching him, if only he could learn to be a competent passer and not be so injury prone, he would be something special.

Babylon
12-19-2008, 05:11 PM
The problem is that NFL LBs are huge. And faster than NCAA ones. That combo=Tebow death


Maybe a slow death. A lot of QBs made a career out of moving the chains with their legs. You think NFL backers are really that much faster than SEC LBs?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-19-2008, 05:15 PM
Maybe a slow death. A lot of QBs made a career out of moving the chains with their legs. You think NFL backers are really that much faster than SEC LBs?

Yes. And bigger. faster. Smarter. I edited my post a bit, added some to the end where I address the first part. Can you name another NFL QB who made a career out of moving the chains with their legs that relied on being stronger than anyone? Most I've seen rely on speed(which Tebow's isn't spectacular), or being a good enough passer that tebow is not yet.

Babylon
12-19-2008, 05:23 PM
Yes. And bigger. faster. Smarter. I edited my post a bit, added some to the end where I address the first part. Can you name another NFL QB who made a career out of moving the chains with their legs that relied on being stronger than anyone? Most I've seen rely on speed(which Tebow's isn't spectacular), or being a good enough passer that tebow is not yet.

I agree they can't get away with running over people but guys like McNair, Steve Young and VY did run and were smart enough to get out of bounds. Preferably i like my QBs to not be big runners. I'll take a Matt Stafford or a Jay Cutler (:) ) over a Tebow but i think there is a place for it.

renegade
12-19-2008, 05:34 PM
The problem is that NFL LBs are huge. And faster than NCAA ones. That combo=Tebow death

But Tebow is bigger than a majority of NFL running backs and they have no problems dealing with contact. He is bigger than Marion Barber, Steven Jackson, Adrian Peterson and Thomas Jones and they are all considered very powerful runners. He is worlds bigger than Clinton Portis, Brian Westbrook, DeAngelo Williams, Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton. A Lot of people think he will not be able to run the same way in the NFL as he does in college because other rushing QBs haven't been able to, but Tebow isn't the average scrambling QB. He broke Emmitt Smiths Rushing TD record as a QB, he ran his way to a Heisman, and he out rushes plenty of future NFL players in the SEC. He has run for 43 TDs in his career, that is much more than Beanie Wells who has rushed for 30, Shonn Green who has rushed for 19, Knoshon Moreno who has rushed for 30.

Like I said he is playing in the SEC which is seen as the top conference in College Football and they are known for producing top pro prospects and he has dominated them, he racked up 3 TD runs against Georgia, and he rushed for nearly 100 yards on the Florida St. defense just this season. Last season when he ran more often, he destroyed one of the SEC's best defenses in the South Carolina Gamecocks, for 120 yards and 5 TDs and he is constantly going against players who would be big in the NFL, like Tyson Jackson and Jasper Brinkley for example.

gpngc
12-19-2008, 05:45 PM
But Tebow is bigger than a majority of NFL running backs and they have no problems dealing with contact. He is bigger than Marion Barber, Steven Jackson, Adrian Peterson and Thomas Jones and they are all considered very powerful runners. He is worlds bigger than Clinton Portis, Brian Westbrook, DeAngelo Williams, Chris Johnson and Steve Slaton. A Lot of people think he will not be able to run the same way in the NFL as he does in college because other rushing QBs haven't been able to, but Tebow isn't the average scrambling QB. He broke Emmitt Smiths Rushing TD record as a QB, he ran his way to a Heisman, and he out rushes plenty of future NFL players in the SEC. He has run for 43 TDs in his career, that is much more than Beanie Wells who has rushed for 30, Shonn Green who has rushed for 19, Knoshon Moreno who has rushed for 30.

Like I said he is playing in the SEC which is seen as the top conference in College Football and they are known for producing top pro prospects and he has dominated them, he racked up 3 TD runs against Georgia, and he rushed for nearly 100 yards on the Florida St. defense just this season. Last season when he ran more often, he destroyed one of the SEC's best defenses in the South Carolina Gamecocks, for 120 yards and 5 TDs and he is constantly going against players who would be big in the NFL, like Tyson Jackson and Jasper Brinkley for example.

I don't think you should have to defend a guy who has success on DESIGNED RUNS.

It's not like he chooses to SCRAMBLE because he doesn't have confidence in his arm.

His coach utilizes him in a way that will help his college team win the most (Urban Meyer does not care about Tim Tebow- the prospect).

His ultimate draft status will come down to how he throws in his workouts.

Everything else about him (size, running ability, intangibles) is icing on the cake.

TimD
12-19-2008, 05:47 PM
I would love the Jets to draft him. Yes we have some holes to fill but I mean this guy is a straight football player. I think he'll be an asset to any team.

I_C_DeadPeople
12-19-2008, 06:35 PM
Whether he is a top notch QB or TE prospect is not relevant. He WANTS to play QB, it's his right. Better that he is honest with teams about his intentions. My idiot Bengals wasted a pick on Reggie McNeal thinking to turn him into a WR when he wanted to play QB.

JFLO
12-19-2008, 08:05 PM
If there is one topic about this years draft that has me thinking, it is definitely Tebow at QB.

I personally feel that with the determination and play that he has shown since the loss to Ole Miss this season, that he is capable of playing QB at the next level. He shows the dedication to finish what he sets out to do, and I think that is going to be a huge factor in his success as an NFL quarterback.

As a fan of the sport overall, I hope to see him have success at the next level, because he might have more passion for the game than any player in the nation right now and that is something that might be lacking in the NFL today, the passion of the game.

wogitalia
12-20-2008, 02:02 AM
Other than Randle-El (over rated IMHO) who has done anything of note to justify anything higher than a 5th rounder??

Matt Jones actually wasn't bad this year for Jacksonville. Certainly not as good as you would expect where he was picked.

Brad Smith for the Jets has been interesting also, never going to be a star but he does keep a defense honest.

As for Tebow, I personally don't think it is too long before a team gives the spread a go. The Chiefs have run a quasi-spread with Thigpen, Patriots have a spread feel to them the last couple of seasons, in the event a team makes that move this off season then all of a sudden Tebow becomes an interesting option in the draft. I'm yet to see why a team couldn't run the spread, in fact the more I watch, the more it seems to justify itself as a viable option, the core values of the offense should actually be even more prevalent in the NFL.

Of course none of the above matters until a team tries it and we find out if it works or not, sure parts of it can, but the whole thing is untested, and even if it did work, for how long can it, Saints a couple of years ago took the league by storm with a spreadesque offense, haven't done much since though as teams sort of worked them out, especially divisional rivals.

Tebow is a polarising prospect to me, he has some serious flaws, of which the majority have been overlooked in the past for other prospects, he also has some seriously good things going for him, the sort of stuff that has both hurt and helped prospects in the past.

In the end for me the best comparison for me to him is a totally different player, but similar type, that is Matt Leinart. Other than being lefties they have next to nothing in common and yet everything. They both are/were terrific leaders in college, both flat out won games, both made plays happen, both have nice touch on their throws. At the same time both have a lot of talent around them, both have questions with there arms, both from systems that have produced some serious busts. I was and still am on the Leinart wagon for him being able to make it in the pros and I feel the same with Tebow, his problems are correctable, his positives are the kind you can't develop though.

In the end though, I just love the way Tebow runs and want to see it in the NFL, as someone who hates the pussifying of the game that is going on these days and the over protection of QBs it would be great for the game and the fans to have a QB who doesn't look to slide or run out, a guy who genuinely wants to truck everyone and wants the hits. That would be refreshing and a big FU to Mr Goodell the tissue nazi. That makes me a Tebow at QB fan.

BBIB
12-20-2008, 10:49 AM
The problem is that NFL LBs are huge. And faster than NCAA ones. That combo=Tebow death.

Personally, I think the ideal running style by a college QB for the NFL is VY. Vick was fast, but it seemed like that was all he had. Tebow is a bruiser. VY actually ran like a runningback, using his size to overpower smaller guys, his speed moves and speed to beat the bigger guys. God I miss watching him, if only he could learn to be a competent passer and not be so injury prone, he would be something special.

Actually Vick had the ideal style because he was elusive. You can't break tackles in the NFL like you do in college. At the QB position if you're going to run frequently it's all about elusiveness. To say Vince Young was a more dangerous runner than Vick is ridiculous. I mean Vick only holds EVERY yards per carry record.

But back to Tebow, I can't believe people actually think he would run that often in the NFL.

First of all, the majority of his runs are designed runs in the option or in short yardage draw plays. Obviously they aren't going to call plays like that in the NFL.

And even this year he has run significantly less.

BBIB
12-20-2008, 10:54 AM
As for Tebow, I personally don't think it is too long before a team gives the spread a go. The Chiefs have run a quasi-spread with Thigpen, Patriots have a spread feel to them the last couple of seasons, in the event a team makes that move this off season then all of a sudden Tebow becomes an interesting option in the draft. I'm yet to see why a team couldn't run the spread, in fact the more I watch, the more it seems to justify itself as a viable option, the core values of the offense should actually be even more prevalent in the NFL.


Don't forget the Steelers. No one talks about it, but look how often they have Big Ben in the Shotgun spread.

I think a shotgun based offense would be perfect for Tebow in the NFL.

gpngc
12-20-2008, 11:20 AM
I don't know what this has to do with Tebow, but Hines Ward and Josh Cribbs were college QBs and they turned into pretty good pro players. I would've spent at least a 4th on either.

BBIB
12-20-2008, 11:30 AM
I don't know what this has to do with Tebow, but Hines Ward and Josh Cribbs were college QBs and they turned into pretty good pro players. I would've spent at least a 4th on either.

The problem is that guys like that were serviceable college QBs, not great.

UGA used Hines Ward all over the field and Cribbs was a completely mediocre passer in college. In fact he ranked well below average in terms of efficiency.

Same story with Randle El, STanback, etc.

It's ridiculous when people compare guys like that to Tebow. Those guys struggled passing the football at the COLLEGE level

Menardo75
12-20-2008, 01:16 PM
The problem is that guys like that were serviceable college QBs, not great.

UGA used Hines Ward all over the field and Cribbs was a completely mediocre passer in college. In fact he ranked well below average in terms of efficiency.

Same story with Randle El, STanback, etc.

It's ridiculous when people compare guys like that to Tebow. Those guys struggled passing the football at the COLLEGE level

Not one of those QB's had the skill players that Tebow has. Not even close.

illmatic74
12-20-2008, 01:19 PM
So you telling me you followed the footwork of McNabb in the option at Syracuse?

How about Alabama St and Tarvaris Jackson and his footwork? (The verdict is still out on him but he was still drafted as a QB regardless)

How about the footwork of Vince Young at Texas? (Still drafted as a QB)

How about the footwork of Brees/Orton in the shotgun?

How about the footwork of Flacco or Big Ben?

You honestly telling me you assessed the mechanics of all those guys in college vs Tebow?

Of course not. You guys are making stuff up to try to disqualify the guy from being a pro QB.His release is a lot slower, his arm is weaker and he had less touch than those guys had. He will be drafted as a QB but he is not going to play early. The only reason why people are looking for him to change position is because of his athlectic ablity and toughness. Same reason why people wanted to move Reggie Mcneal at WR.

SuperKevin
12-20-2008, 01:32 PM
If the UFL ever gets off the ground I can see them making national headlines by luring Tebow their way by promising him a chance to play QB

Tebow could be their Herschel Walker

Cigaro
12-20-2008, 01:54 PM
I do think the myth that the spread "can't" work in the NFL needs to be busted. It can. It justs needs the correct architect. The masters of the spread in college aren't those people. In college, the spread works by creating mismatches in athleticism and talent. Collegiate spread gurus create these high powered offenses by creating schemes that keep talented athletes everywhere on the field. They don't create high powered offenses by instilling fundamentals, or creating great gameplans (their schemes are topnotch, but usually they don't vary heavily when facing different opponents).

In the NFL, these mismatches are largely non-existent. For the spread to be successful in the NFL, you have to find a coach who does these three things;

1. Install fundamentals. To be successful in the NFL, you have to have intelligence to complement athleticism. Most collegiate coordinators aren't overly big on correct fundamentals, which hurts a collegiate spread product's stock in the NFL.
2. Understand the spread. A great NFL spread guru would have to be able to understand how the spread works at it's best, and it's many variations. He would have to be able to create a passing game that works as systematically as the Air Raid, and a running game as successful as the spread option.
3. Create gameplans and be able to create top notch adjustments. With athleticism equalled in the NFL, it becomes a game of wits. You can't roll in week in and week out with the same offense and plays. You have to bring new wrinkles weekly. You also have to be able to make in game adjustments. Certain defenses will have the perfect set to stop the offense you brought in, so you have to be able to change the offense, including the ability to change to a pro style offense if needed.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-20-2008, 02:23 PM
Actually Vick had the ideal style because he was elusive. You can't break tackles in the NFL like you do in college. At the QB position if you're going to run frequently it's all about elusiveness. To say Vince Young was a more dangerous runner than Vick is ridiculous. I mean Vick only holds EVERY yards per carry record.

But back to Tebow, I can't believe people actually think he would run that often in the NFL.

First of all, the majority of his runs are designed runs in the option or in short yardage draw plays. Obviously they aren't going to call plays like that in the NFL.

And even this year he has run significantly less.

Vince is also very elusive, and Vick had a much, much smaller frame. Yeah he was able to keep himself physically together than Vince did, but Vince was 230 lbs, ran with such grace. From what I remember actually, Vick was more just a straight line speedster, he could cut well, but never really shake, and he took a lot of hard hits. Vince has real elusiveness, the ability to move enough that he turns a square hit into an arm tackle, which he is big enough to break.

BBIB
12-22-2008, 10:16 AM
His release is a lot slower, his arm is weaker and he had less touch than those guys had. He will be drafted as a QB but he is not going to play early. The only reason why people are looking for him to change position is because of his athlectic ablity and toughness. Same reason why people wanted to move Reggie Mcneal at WR.

People moved Reggie McNeal because his production as a passer was mediocre just like all the other guys who had to make the switch.

Not one of those QB's had the skill players that Tebow has. Not even close.

None of their production suggested that if they had better weapons they would make a magical turnaround from barely throwing more TDs than INTs to all of a sudden having one of the best TD/INT ratio in the nation.

I guess I could say Jimmy Clausen would be as good as Peyton Manning if he had the weapons Peyton Manning had at Tennessee. Just ignore the huge gap in production.

BBIB
12-22-2008, 03:46 PM
stats = everything.

No one saying that production is an automatic indicator of success at the next level. But it can be an automatic dis qualifier when someone is incredibly unproductive even at the college level.

I mean to say Tebow's passing skills are comparable to guys who barely had more TDs than INTs in their career or who could barely complete half their throws is ridiculous.



they may currently run a similar style of offense, which means that they're comparable at a certain level. however, they don't compare favorably, and just because one CAN compare their skillset in a similar offense, it doesn't mean that gus frerotte = peyton manning.

EXACTLY. They DON'T compare favorably which is the point. The guys you guys are trying to compare Tebow to do not compare favorably. You are ignoring overhwelming discrepancies between the named QBs just for the sake of mentioning the similarities in the style of offense.





why not? it's a question worth asking, no matter what misguided "logic" makes you think otherwise.

Again for the same reason that it's illogical to compare Matthew Stafford to just some random QB in the nation who barely throws more to his teammates than the opposing one. It takes more than a common offense for two guys to be legitimately comparable in terms of talent and projection.

But I guess there is a double standard when it comes to an unconventional offense. I guess then it's ok to simply compare the offense regardless of the overwhelming amount of differences outside merely playing in a similar offense.





i guess i could say that if tim tebow could actually get the ball out of his hands in under 18 seconds, he'd be as good as peyton manning. just ignore the huge gap in passing ability.

i guess i could say that if mike vick had had the accuracy of tom brady, he'd be much better than tom brady. just ignore the huge gap in passing ability/production.

i guess i could say that if ryan leaf would be as good as peyton manning if he had just not ended up in san diego. just ignore the huge gap in production.

but i'm sure you THOUGHT it was relevant or interesting when you typed it.

You love to speak of straw man arguments but you are the one making them.

When did I ever say Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow were comparable?

And to say that it takes him 18 seconds to throw the ball? That isn't textbook strawman on top of that?

And the whole irony again of you trying to make points of ignoring huge gaps of passing ability/production is that is EXACTLY what you are doing when you say it's legitimate to compare Tebow to guys who barely can pass the ball more to their teammates than the opposing team in college.

But again, double standard.

Tampa 2 4 life
12-22-2008, 04:56 PM
The Bucs are going to sign Michael Vick when he's eligible. Mark it down.

Is this before or after Gruden is fired?

619
12-22-2008, 05:01 PM
Is this before or after Gruden is fired?

It's a QB, before.

FreeBaGeL
12-23-2008, 01:29 PM
What I don't understand is if his ultimate goal was to play quarterback in the NFL why did he go play for Urban Meyer?

That's like someone who wants to be an investment banker going to culinary school.

Well, he was a life-long Gator fan so I'm sure that playing for them in the Swamp was always a dream of his.

Also, at the time Tebow committed the last QB to play under Meyer was the #1 overall pick in the NFL draft.

Larry121283
12-23-2008, 02:55 PM
Good for Tebow. I wouldn't want him on my team if he didn't want to be a QB.

Listen, Tebow is a great football player. He can succeed nearly anywhere you want him to play. As a Miami fan, I loathe Tebow as a human and a player, but if I am being honest he has more potential at the QB position then most people give him credit for.

I am not saying he, under any circumstance should be a first rounder or a player that gets taken high, but as a 2nd rounder onward, I'd invest in him. The kid is a football player with the highest level of ability as a player. Just need to work him into an actual position.

Alex Smith is a terrible example because Smith doesn't have half the athletic ability of a Tim Tebow or football IQ or drive and Smith landed in maybe the worst possible spot to succeed sans Detroit in SF when he showed up.

giantsfan
12-25-2008, 03:41 AM
Something that I forgot to add, and that I thought it was funny was when Kiper asked him if he could catch, and he answered, "Well, I catch the ball on every snap" or something to that effect. That right there showed one of the many flags going against him. He's never under center. Ever. I think he has only made one pass from under center during his whole football career. He already takes off running at the feel of a little pressure. What is he going to do when he has to turn his back to the defense, after taking the snap from under center, and he has defenders bearing down on him before he finished dropping back? And with that slow release to top it all off. Not a good combination. Unless a team installs the spread option (how likely is that?), he's going to have to do some major adjustments to the way he plays.

Do people think it makes them smart when they point out the obvious with tebow? Yes he doesn't take snaps from under center so there are questions about his footwork and how well he'll be able to read D's at the line. Yes he has very simple reads and doesn't make too many very difficult throws so again questions arise about his ability to read a defense and master the NFL style of play. And yes his release isn't as fast as you'd like but he has successfully tweaked to where it's not Woodson or Leftwich bad. Those are all obvious flags about his game that any team drafting him has to account for when assessing how long of a growth curve they expect with Tim.

That said he'll be selected as a QB within the first three rounds because if handle patiently and well he could be a great cash cow as a franchise QB. With his toughness, athleticism, leadership and good arm/accuracy he's got a lot of tools that are likeable and he will be so damn marketable if he's successful that I'm sure many teams with aging starters looking for a down the road starter will give him a hard look if their guy can hold out 2 or more years.

illmatic74
12-25-2008, 09:28 PM
Do people think it makes them smart when they point out the obvious with tebow? Yes he doesn't take snaps from under center so there are questions about his footwork and how well he'll be able to read D's at the line. Yes he has very simple reads and doesn't make too many very difficult throws so again questions arise about his ability to read a defense and master the NFL style of play. And yes his release isn't as fast as you'd like but he has successfully tweaked to where it's not Woodson or Leftwich bad. Those are all obvious flags about his game that any team drafting him has to account for when assessing how long of a growth curve they expect with Tim.

That said he'll be selected as a QB within the first three rounds because if handle patiently and well he could be a great cash cow as a franchise QB. With his toughness, athleticism, leadership and good arm/accuracy he's got a lot of tools that are likeable and he will be so damn marketable if he's successful that I'm sure many teams with aging starters looking for a down the road starter will give him a hard look if their guy can hold out 2 or more years.Problem is there a lot of quarterbacks you can say that about. I personally would take Bomar, Brandstater, Freeman's physical tools over his.

toonsterwu
12-26-2008, 03:29 PM
Actually, I've come around on Tebow's Nfl chances at QB. He's shown better vision and awareness this past year. I was very down on it last year, but he's really improved his ability to see the different planes of the field and attack it without being reckless. He shows a better feel for the game now and doesn't seem to be overthinking as much as he used to in the passing game, IMO. Still needs a lot of work, but compared to a year ago, I can see Tebow as a NFL QB.

bored of education
12-26-2008, 03:30 PM
Actually, I've come around on Tebow's Nfl chances at QB. He's shown better vision and awareness this past year. I was very down on it last year, but he's really improved his ability to see the different planes of the field and attack it without being reckless. He shows a better feel for the game now and doesn't seem to be overthinking as much as he used to in the passing game, IMO. Still needs a lot of work, but compared to a year ago, I can see Tebow as a NFL QB.

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i got your email the other day i liek some of your picks.

CashmoneyDrew
12-26-2008, 03:31 PM
ZOMGZZ!!! The messiah has returned!

We were all wondering recently where you disappeared too Toonsterwu. Welcome Back.