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StaticGator
12-19-2008, 11:35 AM
Hate for the college spread offense for how it prepares or doesn't prepare players for the NFL is at an all time high, with Vince Young and Alex Smith being the current poster boys and Tim Tebow in the on deck circle. However, could someone with a better memory than me comment on the offense that Donovan McNabb ran at Syracuse?

In McNabb's senior season in 1998 he averaged 21 pass attempts per game and 11 rushing attempts. He threw 22 TDs and ran in 8. This season Tim Tebow is averaging 21 pass attempts and 12 rushing attempts per game. He has 28 TDs in the air and 12 on the ground. On the surface they seem to be running very similar offenses.

So what was it that allowed McNabb to succeed running a sophisticated offense in the NFL that made Young and Smith fail (so far) and have people convinced Tebow will fail too? Was McNabb just such an exceptional talent who could do anything or was there something different about Paul Pasqualoni's offense that better prepared him?

comahan
12-19-2008, 11:38 AM
The system isnt why people think Tebow will fail. Tebow being a terrible passer is why people think Tebow will fail.

SuperKevin
12-19-2008, 11:42 AM
There are some players who run the 40 faster than it takes Tebow to release the ball.

StaticGator
12-19-2008, 12:18 PM
Then what made McNabb's college experience more beneficial than Young and Smith's?

SuperKevin
12-19-2008, 12:23 PM
Then what made McNabb's college experience more beneficial than Young and Smith's?

Mechanics, Mechanics, Mechanics.

Young and Smith were VERY far from being polished mechanically when they enterred the league.

Halsey
12-19-2008, 12:28 PM
Spread offense QB's have succeeded in the NFL already. They've been running the spread at Purdue for years. Drew Brees and Kyle Orton ran the spread. That helps explain why both of them took a couple of years before the 'light came on'.

vatech=accdomination
12-19-2008, 12:33 PM
McNabb played for an excellent QB coach, who taught him excellent technique (he is currently working with Tavaris Jackson and produced Marcus Vick and Bryan Randall), and the offense was much more pro-style than what Tebow is running.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 12:38 PM
Hate for the college spread offense for how it prepares or doesn't prepare players for the NFL is at an all time high, with Vince Young and Alex Smith being the current poster boys and Tim Tebow in the on deck circle. However, could someone with a better memory than me comment on the offense that Donovan McNabb ran at Syracuse?

In McNabb's senior season in 1998 he averaged 21 pass attempts per game and 11 rushing attempts. He threw 22 TDs and ran in 8. This season Tim Tebow is averaging 21 pass attempts and 12 rushing attempts per game. He has 28 TDs in the air and 12 on the ground. On the surface they seem to be running very similar offenses.

So what was it that allowed McNabb to succeed running a sophisticated offense in the NFL that made Young and Smith fail (so far) and have people convinced Tebow will fail too? Was McNabb just such an exceptional talent who could do anything or was there something different about Paul Pasqualoni's offense that better prepared him?


It's not just McNabb either.

Vick ran an unconventional offense in college, Flacco ran an unconventional offense, Big Ben ran an unconventional offense, the list goes on.

For some reason there is an agenda against Tebow and the more I look at all the double standards the more Im convinced it has nothing to do with football

BBIB
12-19-2008, 12:40 PM
McNabb played for an excellent QB coach, who taught him excellent technique (he is currently working with Tavaris Jackson and produced Marcus Vick and Bryan Randall), and the offense was much more pro-style than what Tebow is running.

THe option offense at Syracuse was pro-style?

What a joke. The bottom line is that the argument of unconventional offense doesn't work because there are more than half a dozen guys who have come from unconventional offenses who have succeeded.

You can make up all this stuff about they showed better mechanics, but the fact of the matter is, that argument is flawed.

Just like most arguments against Tebow


Spread offense QB's have succeeded in the NFL already. They've been running the spread at Purdue for years. Drew Brees and Kyle Orton ran the spread. That helps explain why both of them took a couple of years before the 'light came on'.

Actually most QBs it takes a few years before the "light comes on". That's why it's so rare for a QB to win ROTY.

Heaven forbid, Tebow doesn't light it up from day one if he's given a shot at QB. People are already going to call him a bust from day one. If he isn't a Pro Bowl QB in the first snap in pre-season, people are going to really let him have it

Menardo75
12-19-2008, 02:19 PM
Heaven forbid, Tebow doesn't light it up from day one if he's given a shot at QB. People are already going to call him a bust from day one. If he isn't a Pro Bowl QB in the first snap in pre-season, people are going to really let him have it

Highly doubtful since no one is expecting anything from him in the first place.

BBIB
12-19-2008, 02:43 PM
Highly doubtful since no one is expecting anything from him in the first place.

Oh please.

The second he took the field as a starting QB and had a bad game it would be "I told you he would be a bust".

And the funny thing is if even if Tebow actually proved all of his naysayers wrong who had him pegged at another position.

They'd find another way to discredit him without admitting they were wrong.

Well he can't win a Super Bowl.

Well he's a system QB.

There would always be something.

holt_bruce81
12-19-2008, 06:09 PM
The system has nothing to do with it. Mcnabb and Tebow's stats being similar are irrelevant. Tebow will need to work on his delivery if he wants to even have the chance at success at the next level.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-19-2008, 06:11 PM
McNabb was a smoother and more explosive runner and he was a more accurate and refined passer. You could see a good NFL passer there already. I'm not sure I can see that in Tebow.

neko4
12-19-2008, 06:38 PM
Actually most QBs it takes a few years before the "light comes on". That's why it's so rare for a QB to win ROTY.




Except for Matt Ryan...oh wait, he ran a West Coast Offense his senior year.

I love Tebow, I just dont think he'll be a good QB in the pros. If he gets a good QB coach/OC/HC then maybe he will, but it will definitly take time. One thing Tebow has working for him is that he is a hard worker and isnt easy to deter. Tebow is gonna do everything he can to prove his doubters wrong. This is what I saw in Brennan last year and thats why I thought/think Brennan can be a good QB.

Zyro_1014
12-19-2008, 07:17 PM
I think that Tebow is the type that wont stop until he is successful and thats what makes him such a great college player, but once he gets to the pros the biggest problem hes going to face is his poor mechanics.

His release takes days, I dont think i have EVER seen him take a snap under center and he is going to have to learn how to make a read instead of just throwing routes in a gimmick offense like Floridas.

I love watching Florida play but alot of their plays are very hard to screw up.

SKim172
12-20-2008, 02:24 AM
Oh please.

The second he took the field as a starting QB and had a bad game it would be "I told you he would be a bust".

And the funny thing is if even if Tebow actually proved all of his naysayers wrong who had him pegged at another position.

They'd find another way to discredit him without admitting they were wrong.

Well he can't win a Super Bowl.

Well he's a system QB.

There would always be something.

Ah yes, the plight of the common Heisman Trophy winner. Just another QB with a national championship ring and a shot at another. I'll rave about the inequalities faced by a quarterback lusted after by coaches and universities all over the nation, offering free educations, bonuses, gifts, if he would just touch their campus' fertile soil.

No doubt about it, the whole world's against him. Being chosen of thousands as the nation's top player by a jury of his peers, pundits, and presidents, that means nothing - their hearts hold nothing but murderous hatred.

I'm sure he's cold, frightened, and alone, waking up in his luxury dorm suite with three busty Florida floozies, knowing that this is the bare minimum to what he can expect from his future.

Of course that seven-figure check will sting every time he sees that missing zero. It'll remind him of the hatred of the millions of adoring fans who latch onto his every word.

Such an injustice, that he'll make more money by his 21st birthday than the entire populations of starving nations. Let us all shed a tear for Mr. Limitless Opportunity.

The blood lies on our hands, all our hands - you, and you, and I, and us - us who doubt. For we taketh with crimson fingers that which should belongeth to ones as poor as these.

Oh, cruel Fate! That such youth will be de-splendoured in the apex of ephemeral beauty! http://img3.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sad/sad0034.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-indifferent-smileys.php) :emo tear

Hollywood
12-20-2008, 02:59 AM
Ah yes, the plight of the common Heisman Trophy winner. Just another QB with a national championship ring and a shot at another. I'll rave about the inequalities faced by a quarterback lusted after by coaches and universities all over the nation, offering free educations, bonuses, gifts, if he would just touch their campus' fertile soil.

No doubt about it, the whole world's against him. Being chosen of thousands as the nation's top player by a jury of his peers, pundits, and presidents, that means nothing - their hearts hold nothing but murderous hatred.

I'm sure he's cold, frightened, and alone, waking up in his luxury dorm suite with three busty Florida floozies, knowing that this is the bare minimum to what he can expect from his future.

Of course that seven-figure check will sting every time he sees that missing zero. It'll remind him of the hatred of the millions of adoring fans who latch onto his every word.

Such an injustice, that he'll make more money by his 21st birthday than the entire populations of starving nations. Let us all shed a tear for Mr. Limitless Opportunity.

The blood lies on our hands, all our hands - you, and you, and I, and us - us who doubt. For we taketh with crimson fingers that which should belongeth to ones as poor as these.

Oh, cruel Fate! That such youth will be de-splendoured in the apex of ephemeral beauty! http://img3.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sad/sad0034.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-indifferent-smileys.php) :emo tear

I think I am in love with this post.

BBIB
12-20-2008, 10:42 AM
The system has nothing to do with it. Mcnabb and Tebow's stats being similar are irrelevant. Tebow will need to work on his delivery if he wants to even have the chance at success at the next level.

It's not about similar stats. Tebow actually has superior production. It's about QBs coming from unconventional offenses but with the physical tools to make the transition.



McNabb was a smoother and more explosive runner and he was a more accurate and refined passer. You could see a good NFL passer there already. I'm not sure I can see that in Tebow.

I love when people make stuff up as revisionist historians.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/1999/nfldraft/news/1999/04/12/mcnabb/

A fine option
McNabb shows he's more than a one-trick quarterback

DOLTON, Ill. (CNN/SI) -- He won 35 of 49 collegiate starts. He amassed more than 10,000 yards of offense. And he never missed a game in four years at Syracuse.

But it wasn't until the Senior Bowl three months ago that Donovan McNabb transformed from a glorified option quarterback to one of the primary options in Saturday's NFL Draft

"I believe people began to understand that we're not just guys out there running the ball all day," McNabb said. "We have to make checks at the line of scrimmage, we're reading defenses, we're making reads on the run. Maybe I run around back there in the pocket. But there's a reason for that. I just try to make a play out there."

BBIB
12-20-2008, 10:45 AM
Except for Matt Ryan...oh wait, he ran a West Coast Offense his senior year.

Hence the word MOST. MOST as in the MAJORITY. The MAJORITY of QBs aren't playing at the highest level as a rookie.



I love Tebow, I just dont think he'll be a good QB in the pros. If he gets a good QB coach/OC/HC then maybe he will, but it will definitly take time. One thing Tebow has working for him is that he is a hard worker and isnt easy to deter. Tebow is gonna do everything he can to prove his doubters wrong. This is what I saw in Brennan last year and thats why I thought/think Brennan can be a good QB.



I think that Tebow is the type that wont stop until he is successful and thats what makes him such a great college player, but once he gets to the pros the biggest problem hes going to face is his poor mechanics.



The fact that people admit Tebow has the physical tools and the work ethic yet still think he can't succeed is beyond me. I mean it's like holding two opinions at the same time

Paranoidmoonduck
12-20-2008, 11:24 AM
I love when people make stuff up as revisionist historians.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/1999/nfldraft/news/1999/04/12/mcnabb/

A fine option
McNabb shows he's more than a one-trick quarterback

DOLTON, Ill. (CNN/SI) -- He won 35 of 49 collegiate starts. He amassed more than 10,000 yards of offense. And he never missed a game in four years at Syracuse.

But it wasn't until the Senior Bowl three months ago that Donovan McNabb transformed from a glorified option quarterback to one of the primary options in Saturday's NFL Draft

"I believe people began to understand that we're not just guys out there running the ball all day," McNabb said. "We have to make checks at the line of scrimmage, we're reading defenses, we're making reads on the run. Maybe I run around back there in the pocket. But there's a reason for that. I just try to make a play out there."

And this makes me wrong how? People acted the same way about Jay Cutler, but anyone who was paying attention to his senior year didn't need the Senior Bowl to tell them he was any good.

You want to compare McNabb's and Tebow's skill sets, but McNabb's is better across the board. That doesn't mean Tebow won't have success in the NFL, but arguing that he will because McNabb did won't get you anywhere.

BBIB
12-20-2008, 11:27 AM
And this makes me wrong how? People acted the same way about Jay Cutler, but anyone who was paying attention to his senior year didn't need the Senior Bowl to tell them he was any good.

You want to compare McNabb's and Tebow's skill sets, but McNabb's is better across the board. That doesn't mean Tebow won't have success in the NFL, but arguing that he will because McNabb did won't get you anywhere.

The point is that there was no just all around consensus that McNabb didn't just play in a gimmicky offense.

I point to how there are several other guys who came from offenses that are non traditional and people try to pretend that these guys had mechanics that Tebow does not, knowing dang well they didn't critique Miami (Ohio), Purdue, Alabama St, Alcorn St, and all these other schools where QBs from unconventional offenses have come from.

Iamcanadian
12-20-2008, 12:34 PM
Hate for the college spread offense for how it prepares or doesn't prepare players for the NFL is at an all time high, with Vince Young and Alex Smith being the current poster boys and Tim Tebow in the on deck circle. However, could someone with a better memory than me comment on the offense that Donovan McNabb ran at Syracuse?

In McNabb's senior season in 1998 he averaged 21 pass attempts per game and 11 rushing attempts. He threw 22 TDs and ran in 8. This season Tim Tebow is averaging 21 pass attempts and 12 rushing attempts per game. He has 28 TDs in the air and 12 on the ground. On the surface they seem to be running very similar offenses.

So what was it that allowed McNabb to succeed running a sophisticated offense in the NFL that made Young and Smith fail (so far) and have people convinced Tebow will fail too? Was McNabb just such an exceptional talent who could do anything or was there something different about Paul Pasqualoni's offense that better prepared him?

To start with, McNabb had a gun for an arm with very superior arm strength. That alone placed him high on the draft totem pole just like it did VY.
Tebow will in the end be judged on his arm strength because if he lacks arm strength, teams are not going to be interested in spending a lot of years developing him. That's football reality #1 in the NFL.
Pro teams will drafting a QB who needs a ton of restructering in his mechanics and stick with him for years if he has the mental makeup and a strong arm. They don't often waste their time with a QB who lacks these features, it just isn't worth the bother.
As a high schooler, Tebow made a very poor selection as to who was going to be his college HC. Maybe he was mislead by Alex Smith and thought this HC can produce pro QB's. His choice could prove disasterous to him. It is going to cost him millions on draft day and he had better land on a team that is willing to develop him or his career could be quite short.

illmatic74
12-20-2008, 01:09 PM
McNabb also had a lot more experience playing under center.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
12-20-2008, 01:26 PM
As a high schooler, Tebow made a very poor selection as to who was going to be his college HC. Maybe he was mislead by Alex Smith and thought this HC can produce pro QB's. His choice could prove disasterous to him. It is going to cost him millions on draft day and he had better land on a team that is willing to develop him or his career could be quite short.

A poor selection to who was going to be his college HC??? The kid picked his dream school, UF, who can fault him for that? Why is there so much scrutiny on Urban anyways? Jeff Tedford, Steve Spurrier, Bob Stoops, they've never produced a QB and they don't get nearly the bad rap that Urban's QB's get.

Staubach12
12-20-2008, 01:54 PM
Oh please.

The second he took the field as a starting QB and had a bad game it would be "I told you he would be a bust".

And the funny thing is if even if Tebow actually proved all of his naysayers wrong who had him pegged at another position.

They'd find another way to discredit him without admitting they were wrong.

Well he can't win a Super Bowl.

Well he's a system QB.

There would always be something.

This criticism doesn't make sense. Some people (including myself) think Tebow will fail in the NFL, so you look in your crystal ball and tell us what we'll say if he fails or succeeds. Please, argue the issue, sir.

Staubach12
12-20-2008, 01:56 PM
A poor selection to who was going to be his college HC??? The kid picked his dream school, UF, who can fault him for that? Why is there so much scrutiny on Urban anyways? Jeff Tedford, Steve Spurrier, Bob Stoops, they've never produced a QB and they don't get nearly the bad rap that Urban's QB's get.

Well, their offenses weren't quite as outlandish. But I can see where you're coming from.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-20-2008, 07:00 PM
The point is that there was no just all around consensus that McNabb didn't just play in a gimmicky offense.

I point to how there are several other guys who came from offenses that are non traditional and people try to pretend that these guys had mechanics that Tebow does not, knowing dang well they didn't critique Miami (Ohio), Purdue, Alabama St, Alcorn St, and all these other schools where QBs from unconventional offenses have come from.

I never said a single thing about a gimmicky offense. I said McNabb was a better runner and a better passer.

And the reason we don't knock those guys from smaller school is because they were often the only real top talent on their entire teams and they either played from behind a lot or had no running game or had a bad offensive line or something. We saw them function when plays were falling apart all over. We actually had to watch them lead inferior teams. We noticed their deficiencies, but we also got to see a lot more of the things you look for from them than you do with most big school spread offenses.

Halsey
12-20-2008, 07:29 PM
Calling every offense that's not pro style "gimmicky" is something fans on message boards who think they know it all do. Even NFl teams don't always run traditional pro style plays anymore.

Iamcanadian
12-20-2008, 11:18 PM
A poor selection to who was going to be his college HC??? The kid picked his dream school, UF, who can fault him for that? Why is there so much scrutiny on Urban anyways? Jeff Tedford, Steve Spurrier, Bob Stoops, they've never produced a QB and they don't get nearly the bad rap that Urban's QB's get.

Why does a serious person who is career orientated chose a school. If he wants to be a Doctor he looks for the best medical school, if he wants to be an engineer he looks for the best engineering school, if he wants to be a pro QB, he goes to a college that produces pro QB's or at least runs a pro offense. Sure universities are full of students who go with the flow and end up in well paid mundane jobs but they don't end up as pro football players.
Anybody who doesn't do their homework about their choices risks their career. Tebow chose a HC like it or not, who the pros now question whether he can produce a pro QB. Tedford had that rap and it cost Rodgers millions on draft day as he slide to Green Bay. Spurrier get that rap for WR's and Stoops simply isn't regarded as a good HC by the pros.
Meyer is a solid HC but if your going to go play for him you had better not have aspirations to be a pro QB because even if you get drafted, you'll slide way down draft boards before some team choses you and it is going to cost you millions of dollars.
Tebow has wasted his time in Florida, he has learned little about playing QB in the pros, has risked his health running the ball and wasted his time learning under a HC who has not prepared him for the next level.
Every college HC is under scrutiny by pro football scouts. Every spring each HC assigns his elite freshmen players to certain positions and after a few years it becomes quite obvious which positions he prefers his best players to play. Once pro scouts determine where a HC prefers his star players to be placed, scouts will downgrade the players on that team not playing those positions. It is just common sense. i.e. Spurrier prefers to place his top athletes as DB's vs WR's. He produces a lot of pro DB's but his WR's often have very sketchy careers.

illmatic74
12-20-2008, 11:31 PM
Why does a serious person who is career orientated chose a school. If he wants to be a Doctor he looks for the best medical school, if he wants to be an engineer he looks for the best engineering school, if he wants to be a pro QB, he goes to a college that produces pro QB's or at least runs a pro offense. Sure universities are full of students who go with the flow and end up in well paid mundane jobs but they don't end up as pro football players.
Anybody who doesn't do their homework about their choices risks their career. Tebow chose a HC like it or not, who the pros now question whether he can produce a pro QB. Tedford had that rap and it cost Rodgers millions on draft day as he slide to Green Bay. Spurrier get that rap for WR's and Stoops simply isn't regarded as a good HC by the pros.
Meyer is a solid HC but if your going to go play for him you had better not have aspirations to be a pro QB because even if you get drafted, you'll slide way down draft boards before some team choses you and it is going to cost you millions of dollars.
Tebow has wasted his time in Florida, he has learned little about playing QB in the pros, has risked his health running the ball and wasted his time learning under a HC who has not prepared him for the next level.
Every college HC is under scrutiny by pro football scouts. Every spring each HC assigns his elite freshmen players to certain positions and after a few years it becomes quite obvious which positions he prefers his best players to play. Once pro scouts determine where a HC prefers his star players to be placed, scouts will downgrade the players on that team not playing those positions. It is just common sense. i.e. Spurrier prefers to place his top athletes as DB's vs WR's. He produces a lot of pro DB's but his WR's often have very sketchy careers.He is about to play in his second National Championship. He went to Florida to WIN!

PickedOffTwice
12-21-2008, 11:38 AM
At first i wanted to throw into the discussion, that perhaps he didn't choose UF because of his NFL aspirations but because he 1) wanted to win in college, 2) he IS from florida and 3) for educational reasons.
Seeing he majors in "Family, Youth and Community Sciences", i think he isn't in college for educational reasons.....
Still, he probably went to college to UF and Urban Meyer to win in college and not to get himself a 3 year preparation for the NFL.
He won 2 NCs and a Heisman, holds several records and is regarded as one of the best college players ever.
Bottom Line: Good Choice.

NFL is another ballgame and we will see if he can succeed there.

Staubach12
12-21-2008, 11:56 AM
Calling every offense that's not pro style "gimmicky" is something fans on message boards who think they know it all do. Even NFl teams don't always run traditional pro style plays anymore.

Yeah, but that's not what's happening here. A Florida offense doesn't resemble a pro offense at all. This is one of those times thta the label does fit. McNabb's certainly wasn't a pro offense, but it wasn't an Urban offense, either. It prepared McNabb much better for the NFL than the Urban offense would have.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-21-2008, 12:47 PM
I hear people saying, "you can teach Tebow how to make reads" "you can teach Tebow proper footwork and mechanics" "You can speed up Tebow's release." Okay, tell me which QB you CAN'T do that too? Hell, if I was 6'3", you could probably teach me all that too. And before anyone brings up college stats, those are meaningless, as long as they aren't awful, so I don't give a **** if he threw 5 INTs playing in that offense or not. Matt Ryan threw 19, and Tebow ain't gonna be better than him.

Sniper
12-21-2008, 12:53 PM
Seeing he majors in "Family, Youth and Community Sciences", i think he isn't in college for educational reasons.

I would disagree. You do know he goes to the Philippines and stuff like that to help children? If he didn't care about school, he probably wouldn't be an Academic All-American every year.

BBIB
12-22-2008, 04:02 PM
Yeah, but that's not what's happening here. A Florida offense doesn't resemble a pro offense at all. This is one of those times thta the label does fit. McNabb's certainly wasn't a pro offense, but it wasn't an Urban offense, either. It prepared McNabb much better for the NFL than the Urban offense would have.

The problem is that you make up things that are just completely false. THey ran the freaking option at Syracuse. To say that prepares anybody for the NFL any more than the spread option is just a complete fabrication. Same with running a Shotgun at Delaware/Miami (Ohio) etc.

BBIB
12-22-2008, 04:04 PM
I hear people saying, "you can teach Tebow how to make reads" "you can teach Tebow proper footwork and mechanics" "You can speed up Tebow's release." Okay, tell me which QB you CAN'T do that too? Hell, if I was 6'3", you could probably teach me all that too. And before anyone brings up college stats, those are meaningless, as long as they aren't awful, so I don't give a **** if he threw 5 INTs playing in that offense or not. Matt Ryan threw 19, and Tebow ain't gonna be better than him.

The point is that all the so called limitations to Tebow's game are correctable. It's not like he has any clear deficiencies in his physical or mental abilities that would prevent him from being a good/great QB.

And sure anybody could refine their skills, but Tebow is actually a guy with a work ethic that really suggests that would be the case.

Again it's ridiculous for a guy as talented as he is who shows such a passion for the game, the willingness to put the work in to improve his game, to label as a failure with no shot of succeeding.

illmatic74
12-22-2008, 06:06 PM
The point is that all the so called limitations to Tebow's game are correctable. It's not like he has any clear deficiencies in his physical or mental abilities that would prevent him from being a good/great QB.

And sure anybody could refine their skills, but Tebow is actually a guy with a work ethic that really suggests that would be the case.

Again it's ridiculous for a guy as talented as he is who shows such a passion for the game, the willingness to put the work in to improve his game, to label as a failure with no shot of succeeding.His release is ridicoulously slow and his arm strength is only ok. That with his bad touch and mechanics it is going to be a long project.

Staubach12
12-22-2008, 07:42 PM
The problem is that you make up things that are just completely false. THey ran the freaking option at Syracuse. To say that prepares anybody for the NFL any more than the spread option is just a complete fabrication. Same with running a Shotgun at Delaware/Miami (Ohio) etc.

McNabb was under center at Syracuse from time to time. Tebow is not. McNabb read normal bases defenses. Tebow doesn't. McNabb's offense at Syracuse was a semi-pro option offense. It prepares a QB MUCH MUCH better than a spread option. To say any different shows a severe lack of basic knowledge on your part.

Apart from that, McNabb was simply coached better.

HorusKing
12-22-2008, 10:53 PM
Tebow can play QB in the NFL but he really need to work on his mechanics and footwork. I think Tebow might have the same issue as the kid that played at Kentucky last year who set tons of passing records in the SEC. They both have long wind up throwing motion on there release.

Staubach12
12-22-2008, 10:58 PM
Tebow can play QB in the NFL but he really need to work on his mechanics and footwork. I think Tebow might have the same issue as the kid that played at Kentucky last year who set tons of passing records in the SEC. They both have long wind up throwing motion on there release.

Woodson was actually a better prospect IMHO.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
12-22-2008, 11:14 PM
Woodson was actually a better prospect IMHO.

Now this is just pure hate of Tebow. Woodson's release was MUCH worse than Tebow's and everything attribute of Woodson except maybe arm strength was worse than Tebow's.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
12-22-2008, 11:18 PM
Why does a serious person who is career orientated chose a school. If he wants to be a Doctor he looks for the best medical school, if he wants to be an engineer he looks for the best engineering school, if he wants to be a pro QB, he goes to a college that produces pro QB's or at least runs a pro offense. Sure universities are full of students who go with the flow and end up in well paid mundane jobs but they don't end up as pro football players.
Anybody who doesn't do their homework about their choices risks their career. Tebow chose a HC like it or not, who the pros now question whether he can produce a pro QB. Tedford had that rap and it cost Rodgers millions on draft day as he slide to Green Bay. Spurrier get that rap for WR's and Stoops simply isn't regarded as a good HC by the pros.
Meyer is a solid HC but if your going to go play for him you had better not have aspirations to be a pro QB because even if you get drafted, you'll slide way down draft boards before some team choses you and it is going to cost you millions of dollars.
Tebow has wasted his time in Florida, he has learned little about playing QB in the pros, has risked his health running the ball and wasted his time learning under a HC who has not prepared him for the next level.
Every college HC is under scrutiny by pro football scouts. Every spring each HC assigns his elite freshmen players to certain positions and after a few years it becomes quite obvious which positions he prefers his best players to play. Once pro scouts determine where a HC prefers his star players to be placed, scouts will downgrade the players on that team not playing those positions. It is just common sense. i.e. Spurrier prefers to place his top athletes as DB's vs WR's. He produces a lot of pro DB's but his WR's often have very sketchy careers.

1. There are more factors than football that gets a recruit to commit. No one wants to be at a college that they don't like. Plus the kid grew up dreaming to play for UF.

2. I have no idea what that second part of your post is talking about.

illmatic74
12-22-2008, 11:18 PM
Now this is just pure hate of Tebow. Woodson's release was MUCH worse than Tebow's and everything attribute of Woodson except maybe arm strength was worse than Tebow's.Tebow is much worse. Woodson accuracy is better.

Monomach
12-23-2008, 01:18 AM
At first i wanted to throw into the discussion, that perhaps he didn't choose UF because of his NFL aspirations but because he 1) wanted to win in college, 2) he IS from florida and 3) for educational reasons.
Seeing he majors in "Family, Youth and Community Sciences", i think he isn't in college for educational reasons.....
Still, he probably went to college to UF and Urban Meyer to win in college and not to get himself a 3 year preparation for the NFL.
He won 2 NCs and a Heisman, holds several records and is regarded as one of the best college players ever.
Bottom Line: Good Choice.

NFL is another ballgame and we will see if he can succeed there.
Being one of the best college football players ever + zero NFL prep = a future as an alcoholic insurance salesman living in a double-wide.

I'd be pretty damned hesitant to call that a "Good Choice."

Bigburt63
12-23-2008, 08:55 AM
At first i wanted to throw into the discussion, that perhaps he didn't choose UF because of his NFL aspirations but because he 1) wanted to win in college, 2) he IS from florida and 3) for educational reasons.
Seeing he majors in "Family, Youth and Community Sciences", i think he isn't in college for educational reasons.....
Still, he probably went to college to UF and Urban Meyer to win in college and not to get himself a 3 year preparation for the NFL.
He won 2 NCs and a Heisman, holds several records and is regarded as one of the best college players ever.
Bottom Line: Good Choice.

NFL is another ballgame and we will see if he can succeed there.

Hasn't won the second one yet

the decider13
12-23-2008, 10:00 AM
The point is that all the so called limitations to Tebow's game are correctable. It's not like he has any clear deficiencies in his physical or mental abilities that would prevent him from being a good/great QB.

And sure anybody could refine their skills, but Tebow is actually a guy with a work ethic that really suggests that would be the case.

Again it's ridiculous for a guy as talented as he is who shows such a passion for the game, the willingness to put the work in to improve his game, to label as a failure with no shot of succeeding.

So basically, as long as he completely changes everything about the way he plays, he will be a good NFL QB? Good point.

Staubach12
12-23-2008, 12:19 PM
Now this is just pure hate of Tebow. Woodson's release was MUCH worse than Tebow's and everything attribute of Woodson except maybe arm strength was worse than Tebow's.

I didn't say he was far and away better. It's close, but I thought Woodson was a bit underrated despite that release.

BBIB
12-23-2008, 10:39 PM
So basically, as long as he completely changes everything about the way he plays, he will be a good NFL QB? Good point.

He honestly doesn't have to change as much as people are making it seem.

The idea that Tebow is not accurate is absolutely fallacious. So is the idea that he has a Leftwich esque delivery. He has tweaked his delivery and it's significantly faster.

The main thing he has to do is learn how to take snaps under center. Something that guys like Brees, Flacco, Roethlisberger, etc all had to learn to do

illmatic74
12-23-2008, 10:45 PM
He honestly doesn't have to change as much as people are making it seem.

The idea that Tebow is not accurate is absolutely fallacious. So is the idea that he has a Leftwich esque delivery. He has tweaked his delivery and it's significantly faster.

The main thing he has to do is learn how to take snaps under center. Something that guys like Brees, Flacco, Roethlisberger, etc all had to learn to doi Saw Flacco and Rothelisberger play in college live. I also saw Brees play for Pudue on ESPN classic about a month ago and it is not even close. Tebow is far behind those 3 when it comes to accuracy, mechanics and reading the field.

sbh15
12-23-2008, 11:11 PM
Why do these threads continue to get started? They always go the same way...

Person who likes Tebow: Why can't he play NFL quarterback
Person who doesn't: He has terrible mechanics. Better suited at FB/TE
Person who likes Tebow: But he won the Heisman
Person who doesn't: That means nothing

and more arguing in between. Nobody is getting convinced of anything but their own opinion in these Tim Tebow focused threads.