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View Full Version : Gut Check: Who are the Steelers?


steelernation77
12-21-2008, 04:15 PM
The Pittsburgh Steelers have been predicated on two things in the last 30+ years:
1. Dominant Defense
This year the defense has been stellar. Our main obvious deficiency over the last couple years was lack of a pass rush. We addressed it the Steeler way, through the draft. Woodley and Timmons have been valuable additions at LB, returning the corps to the caliber expected of the franchise
2. Running the football
The Steelers have not been able to run the football. It is obvious and it is killing me. The o-line has not been moving defenders off the snap and the backs are not reading what holes do exist quick enough (Parker) or are unable to hit them fast enough (Moore).

Ask yourself what you've always taken pride in as a Steeler fan. For me, and I believe most Steeler fans, it's a smash mouth style and a franchise that wins and loses with class. Smash mouth football has two parts, both listed above. We have a choice to make, do we abandon this heritage and go down a more finesse path that some seem eager to pursue (Arians) or do we remember that these are the Pittsburgh Steelers? This is the team of Lambert and Lloyd, of Harris and Bettis.

That is why I believe we need offensive linemen early in the draft this year. Our current personnel are not enough. Just as we did with our LBs, we need to inject some talent and youth in to this line. It needs to be the organization's goal to resurrect the running game. Hopefully Mendenhall will emerge (I believe he will), and this team will be recognizable again. It will also be huge for Ben to once again have a ground game defenses must respect.

I love this franchise, I love what they have defined themselves by throughout the years. The Steelers are smash mouth. It's important not to forget our roots.

I leave you with this, which always gets to me, and although I'm all of you have seen it, it's good to remind ourselves who we are.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1527321414

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa1TSaKmG2o&feature=related

RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
12-21-2008, 04:25 PM
i agree i think the only thing you need is a better oline someone who doesnt let ben get hit every time and some guys who will open holes for your backs.

CDub
12-21-2008, 05:07 PM
I've been saying it since we hired him - BA is not the guy for us. First - we do not have the personel to fit his scheme. Second -and more importantly- he has yet to be successful with his scheme in the pros or college. Right now he's trying to fit a square peg (players) into a round hole (scheme). the problem is that Ben likes this spread offense because he wants to be Peyton Manning when he's really more of a John Elway - rely on the run and make the big plays when needed.

Not to mention our O's lack of consistency and repeated 3 & out's are costing our D the stamina necessary to make it through the long season and through the even more intense playoffs. The number 26 is not something we should see in front of our rushing ranking.

Mr. Goosemahn
12-21-2008, 11:35 PM
Solution:

Fire/Demote Arians to WR coach (did a good job with Holmes and Nate)

Sign an offensive coordinator like Mike Mularkey or Ken Whisenhunt. Mularkey's philosophy was to be "the most physically punishing offense", and he helped the Steelers win 10+ games in his 3 years as Offensive Coordinator. He's got that Smashmouth mentality, and we desperately need it. He also developed great packages to take advantage of Randle El's versatility. Right now, he's the OC for the Falcons (and this is his first season there), and look at them. They have a ferocious running AND passing game, with the Burner Turner being close to the lead in rushing yards and Roddy White being the second receiver with most yards in the league; and Matt Ryan gets to throw the ball around. Arians is more of a finesse OC, and there's no room for finesse in Pittsburgh.

Speaking of which, fire Larry Zierlein, our O-line coach. He's trying to instill a zone-blocking scheme. Nuh-uh. We've got a 6'8, 340 lbs. left tackle and a 6'3 344 lbs. left guard. They're too big for such schemes. Plus, Steeler Nation likes nasty, road-grating offensive linemen (like Faneca). And that calls for a Power offensive line.

Sign Greg Adkins, the offensive line coach for the Tennessee Volunteers (http://www.utsports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/adkins_greg00.html). During Erik Ainge's last year as starting quarterback he was sacked three times. Three. He ended up with 3,522 passing yards and 31 touchdowns with 10 interceptions, with 513 completed passes and a completion percentage of 62.6%. But most importantly, he was sacked just THREE FRIKIN' TIMES! And Ainge is not mobile at all. This year, the same five starters allowed like, seven sacks or something like that. And these players aren't really the cream of the crop. Granted, they don't play against the world's best pass-rushers, but still, three sacks is ridiculously low. I think this would translate to something like 15 sacks in the NFL. That is very, very low. Plus, they also are great at opening holes for the running backs.

Re-Sign Max Starks. He's played well as of late and keeps getting better with every game he plays.

Sign Vernon Carey. He's a great run-blocker and also a good pass-protector. In fact, he was listed as the second best RT in the league by a list shown on an ESPN program halfway through the season (the first was Jordan Gross, even though he plays LT. They said he'd still be the best RT in the league. Others in the top five area were Kareem McKenzie, Eric Winston, and Ryan Diem). This would also allow Colon to move inside, where he'd be a good offensive lineman, for a change.

Draft Duke Robinson. Yeah, some people would say that this wouldn't be necessary with Carey or some other FA, but yes it is. Kemoeatu's not the answer. He looked good in Weeks 1 and 2, and that's about it. Robinson's 6'5, 330 lbs, a phenomenal road-grater AND pass-protector, and one of the best guard prospects to come in a while. He's a tough guy with excellent work ethics and, as far as I know, no off-field issues. He's the perfect type of player for Pittsburgh.

That would be a line consisting of:

LT: Max Starks -- 6'8 / 340 lbs.
LG: Duke Robinson -- 6'5 / 330 lbs.
C: Justin Hartwig -- 6'4 / 312 lbs.
RG: Willie Colon -- 6'3 / 315 lbs.
RT: Vernon Carey -- 6'5 / 335 lbs.

That's a line measuring an average of 6'5 and 326.4. And all five players have run-blocking as their strength (with Duke and Carey being great Pass-Protectors as well). They'd open all types of holes for Mendenhall, Parker, Moore, and Russell, would give more time to Ben, and help us return to the traditional Steelers offense that won us a Superbowl.

Mr. Stiller
12-24-2008, 02:21 PM
Solution:

Fire/Demote Arians to WR coach (did a good job with Holmes and Nate)

I don't want him around this offense.

Sign an offensive coordinator like Mike Mularkey or Ken Whisenhunt. Mularkey's philosophy was to be "the most physically punishing offense", and he helped the Steelers win 10+ games in his 3 years as Offensive Coordinator. He's got that Smashmouth mentality, and we desperately need it. He also developed great packages to take advantage of Randle El's versatility. Right now, he's the OC for the Falcons (and this is his first season there), and look at them. They have a ferocious running AND passing game, with the Burner Turner being close to the lead in rushing yards and Roddy White being the second receiver with most yards in the league; and Matt Ryan gets to throw the ball around. Arians is more of a finesse OC, and there's no room for finesse in Pittsburgh.

I'm liking Chan Gailey of the available guys this offseason.. Or Boise States HC.

Darkhorse: Turner Gill (Buffalo HC)

Speaking of which, fire Larry Zierlein, our O-line coach. He's trying to instill a zone-blocking scheme. Nuh-uh. We've got a 6'8, 340 lbs. left tackle and a 6'3 344 lbs. left guard. They're too big for such schemes. Plus, Steeler Nation likes nasty, road-grating offensive linemen (like Faneca). And that calls for a Power offensive line.

Agreed. I feel there's too many schematic inconsistencies. Arians wants a deep threat passing offense, with a road grading style OL (Everyone but Stapleton fits that mold).

I think the "ZBS" is screwing with Kemo. He spent 2 years learning Hat on Hat with Grimm then Bam, 2 years of "Know your zone".. Screw it, go to hat on hat.

Sign Greg Adkins, the offensive line coach for the Tennessee Volunteers (http://www.utsports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/adkins_greg00.html). During Erik Ainge's last year as starting quarterback he was sacked three times. Three. He ended up with 3,522 passing yards and 31 touchdowns with 10 interceptions, with 513 completed passes and a completion percentage of 62.6%. But most importantly, he was sacked just THREE FRIKIN' TIMES! And Ainge is not mobile at all. This year, the same five starters allowed like, seven sacks or something like that. And these players aren't really the cream of the crop. Granted, they don't play against the world's best pass-rushers, but still, three sacks is ridiculously low. I think this would translate to something like 15 sacks in the NFL. That is very, very low. Plus, they also are great at opening holes for the running backs.

Thats not bad. I'd pick Stacy Searles, Currently of Georgia. He was LSU's OL Coach from 03-06 and Georgia 07-Current. The guy has developed some of the best big nasties in the NCAA. Both teams utilize a balance offense with a road grading OL. I can only imagine what he could turn Colon, Kemo, Starks into.. not to mention a guy like Duke Robinson.

Re-Sign Max Starks. He's played well as of late and keeps getting better with every game he plays.

I don't know who I was getting into it with, but Max is definitively the best option for this team for LT. He will be cheaper than anyone better than him and he will play great.


Sign Vernon Carey. He's a great run-blocker and also a good pass-protector. In fact, he was listed as the second best RT in the league by a list shown on an ESPN program halfway through the season (the first was Jordan Gross, even though he plays LT. They said he'd still be the best RT in the league. Others in the top five area were Kareem McKenzie, Eric Winston, and Ryan Diem). This would also allow Colon to move inside, where he'd be a good offensive lineman, for a change.

I'd love to see Carey, Gross come in, but We don't have the money. We effectively have 7M Open next season. And thats before we re-sign our own guys. I have a feeling Colon is our Permanent RT. Unless we draft a guy like Tupou, Fulton, Reynolds...

Draft Duke Robinson. Yeah, some people would say that this wouldn't be necessary with Carey or some other FA, but yes it is. Kemoeatu's not the answer. He looked good in Weeks 1 and 2, and that's about it. Robinson's 6'5, 330 lbs, a phenomenal road-grater AND pass-protector, and one of the best guard prospects to come in a while. He's a tough guy with excellent work ethics and, as far as I know, no off-field issues. He's the perfect type of player for Pittsburgh.

Again I think the Scheme is ******* with Kemo's head. But I came around on Robinson and I like the pick. The only person I'd take over him is Gerald McCoy if he declares. Even then I doubt he falls to us.

That would be a line consisting of:

LT: Max Starks -- 6'8 / 340 lbs.
LG: Duke Robinson -- 6'5 / 330 lbs.
C: Justin Hartwig -- 6'4 / 312 lbs.
RG: Willie Colon -- 6'3 / 315 lbs.
RT: Vernon Carey -- 6'5 / 335 lbs.

That's a line measuring an average of 6'5 and 326.4. And all five players have run-blocking as their strength (with Duke and Carey being great Pass-Protectors as well). They'd open all types of holes for Mendenhall, Parker, Moore, and Russell, would give more time to Ben, and help us return to the traditional Steelers offense that won us a Superbowl.

See there's the thing that people fail to realize. Running+ Defense got us to the Playoffs in 05.. Ben+Defense got us to the superbowl.. Running+Defense won us the Superbowl.

We need to be able to pass. I'd also say Colon is around 325-330 right now.

I'd like to see us add Robinson and I oft wonder what Loadholt would do at RT. I like his potential but his high stock scares the **** out of me.

Mr. Goosemahn
12-24-2008, 03:21 PM
I think his stock could drop a bit. I'd say he'll go in the fourth or fifth, unless someone falls in love with his potential and reaches for him. I think he takes a path like Roy Schuening last year. He was considered a second-third rounder and was taken the pick after we took Dixon.

CashmoneyDrew
12-24-2008, 03:30 PM
Solution:

Sign Greg Adkins, the offensive line coach for the Tennessee Volunteers (http://www.utsports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/adkins_greg00.html). During Erik Ainge's last year as starting quarterback he was sacked three times. Three. He ended up with 3,522 passing yards and 31 touchdowns with 10 interceptions, with 513 completed passes and a completion percentage of 62.6%. But most importantly, he was sacked just THREE FRIKIN' TIMES! And Ainge is not mobile at all. This year, the same five starters allowed like, seven sacks or something like that. And these players aren't really the cream of the crop. Granted, they don't play against the world's best pass-rushers, but still, three sacks is ridiculously low. I think this would translate to something like 15 sacks in the NFL. That is very, very low. Plus, they also are great at opening holes for the running backs.


Greg Adkins barely had anything to do with that great year for the offensive line of the Vols when Ainge was a senior. That was more of a testament to David Cutcliffe and his system and Erik Ainge not holding on to the ball for very long. Plus they gave up 4 sacks that year. (That's nitpicky but true)
Also The line allowed way more than 7 sacks this past season, and Tennessee's run blocking has been sub par for quite a few years now. Don't be fooled by the sacks allowed in the 2007 season.

Mr. Stiller
12-25-2008, 06:22 PM
I think his stock could drop a bit. I'd say he'll go in the fourth or fifth, unless someone falls in love with his potential and reaches for him. I think he takes a path like Roy Schuening last year. He was considered a second-third rounder and was taken the pick after we took Dixon.

If Loadholt falls to the 4th/5th I'll take him. I think he is a developmental prospect.

Lose weight, play with better technique/leverage and BAM! Jon Runyan 2.0

savedbygrace89
01-08-2009, 09:03 PM
I am the type of Steelers fan that pretty much does Not Want The Big Passing Game!!! Never wanted it... Never will!!

I think that the Steelers must get offensive linemen and defensive linemen to get our team ready for the future more on the defensive side than the offensive side. What I am saying is. ... our offensive line needs the help right now and our defensive line will be needing help later than sooner. I think that Aaron Smith is showing no signs of slowing down, but we need an upgrade acrosss from him. And I think we really would be smart to get a big time NT for Big Snack to groom for our future there as well.

captainjack27
01-08-2009, 09:05 PM
I am the type of Steelers fan that pretty much does Not Want The Big Passing Game!!! Never wanted it... Never will!!

I think that the Steelers must get offensive linemen and defensive linemen to get our team ready for the future more on the defensive side than the offensive side. What I am saying is. ... our offensive line needs the help right now and our defensive line will be needing help later than sooner. I think that Aaron Smith is showing no signs of slowing down, but we need an upgrade acrosss from him. And I think we really would be smart to get a big time NT for Big Snack to groom for our future there as well.

Tyson Jackson would be nice, if we didn't need a OL so badly, I can't take watching Marvel Smith play at tackle, Willie Colon hold on big plays, or see Ben just pulverized, it's nauseating.

Mr. Goosemahn
01-08-2009, 11:08 PM
Tyson Jackson would be nice, if we didn't need a OL so badly, I can't take watching Marvel Smith play at tackle, Willie Colon hold on big plays, or see Ben just pulverized, it's nauseating.

Marvel's career could very well be over. Too many back problems and too many surgeries as of late. And yeah, Colon always gets stupid penalties. He got Washington's TD canceled for a holding call, and I think it was against the Chargers that he was flagged for not being on the line, meaning that we only had 6 instead of the required 7. It's stupid penalties that he should be aware of evading.

As for Tyson Jackson, I actually think he wouldn't fit our scheme that well. I see him more of an over-sized 4-3 DE, like Mario Williams who's 6-6 and 283 lbs. I don't know, but I don't see some Aaron Smith, Travis Kirschke, stoutness in him. He's a good pass-rusher, but our DE's need to be great run-stuffers, and that's not his strong skill. But who knows, maybe he can add some lbs. and be a good 3-4 DE.

lance uppercut
01-09-2009, 11:48 AM
As for Tyson Jackson, I actually think he wouldn't fit our scheme that well. I see him more of an over-sized 4-3 DE, like Mario Williams who's 6-6 and 283 lbs. I don't know, but I don't see some Aaron Smith, Travis Kirschke, stoutness in him. He's a good pass-rusher, but our DE's need to be great run-stuffers, and that's not his strong skill. But who knows, maybe he can add some lbs. and be a good 3-4 DE.

yep, I agree with this. just b/c he's got the height & weight of a 3-4 DE does not mean he's suited for it. he strikes me as a pass rusher first who plays the run a bit on his way to the QB.

McCoy & Raji are the only DL I would consider in the first for us. they'll both be gone, but that's ok, it might mean one more OL slips down to us.