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View Full Version : Does Super Mario change our draft plans?


garethjwelsh
12-22-2008, 07:55 AM
Hi guys,

I have been hearing some good things about Mario Henderson the past couple of weeks. Has anyone seen his play the last couple of weeks. I have heard he is an upgrade over Harris, but that isn't really saying much.

My question is do you think he has shown enough for us to give him a chance at the LT spot next year? Or can we take a Tackle in the later rounds as more of a development guy, give Henderson the job next season and see how it pans out? There is no denying we have a lot of needs right now, from CB to DT to WR.

What do people think?

bernbabybern820
12-22-2008, 05:59 PM
Hi guys,

I have been hearing some good things about Mario Henderson the past couple of weeks. Has anyone seen his play the last couple of weeks. I have heard he is an upgrade over Harris, but that isn't really saying much.

My question is do you think he has shown enough for us to give him a chance at the LT spot next year? Or can we take a Tackle in the later rounds as more of a development guy, give Henderson the job next season and see how it pans out? There is no denying we have a lot of needs right now, from CB to DT to WR.

What do people think?

Henderson has shown he can block big linemen but we have yet to see how he fairs against speed rushers. I guess it is wait an see until next week against Gaines Adams. We still need another tackle to take Green place as well.

Stash
12-22-2008, 10:54 PM
I would move Henderson to RT next year and draft a LT in the 1st.

RaiderNation
12-22-2008, 11:06 PM
He has played pretty good at LT. But in the long run he probably wont be the answer there. But as a RT, he could be pretty good. If we can get a guy like Smith,Monroe or Oher in the 1st round, we could be set at the OT positions for a long time

Komp
12-23-2008, 01:02 PM
I agree. I have no idea why the coaching staff was playing Kwame Harris over Henderson all season. When Mario came in for a couple games at the beginning of the year he was an obvious upgrade over Harris, it wasn't even close. Having said that, I don't know if I trust him with my QB's blindside for the next 5 years. Irregardless we another OT and OG, so there is no reason for us to shy away from drafting an OT in the top 10 this year.

doingthisinsteadofwork
12-23-2008, 03:19 PM
Depends on if Cable is with us next year and how Mario finishes off the season.If Cable is here next year I doubt we go OT.Cable doesn't like to draft Oline early and Marios a better fit for the ZBS than a power scheme.

Young Legend
12-23-2008, 07:27 PM
Henderson as A RT would fail his best thing he brings to the table is his ability to pass block which makes him a better fit at Lt.

NotoRussell
12-26-2008, 06:04 AM
Mario looked good as LT and with him JaMarcus. the last two games Mario started as LT, JaMarcus has thrown over 200 yards and 2 tds in every game, because he didnt run for his life on every snap.
Mario held his own against leagues primer bull pass rusher, Mario Williams and Richard Seymour, thats pretty impressive for a guy who had strength problems as he came to the league.

Abaddon
12-27-2008, 02:40 PM
His main issues coming out were his laziness, immaturity, and overall lack of dedication. A couple good games shouldn't cause anyone to overlook the reasons most draftniks had him slotted as a 7th rounder or worse.

Unless he's on an Al Davis scholarship, I don't see him starting many games past this season.

NotoRussell
12-27-2008, 03:13 PM
our OL is such a mess, imo he will be starter next season, because Al will go for Crabtree.

RaiderNation
12-27-2008, 05:12 PM
Unless he's on an Al Davis scholarship, I don't see him starting many games past this season.

Lol how could you say this? Mario has played very good and I can see him being a nice RT.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-27-2008, 05:28 PM
We'll see. What scheme Oakland moves to will matter quite a bit. Remember, in 2006, under Shell and Slater's scheme, Kevin Boothe was the best lineman on the field more often than not.

If Henderson is finally working hard enough, then great. He's always had great potential. Do I trust him as the left tackle moving forward? Not really.

NotoRussell
12-28-2008, 05:04 AM
Lol how could you say this? Mario has played very good and I can see him being a nice RT.

and if we draft a LT with our 1st pick or sign Gross(imo the better option) the OL would look great.
maybe get 2 WRs through the draft, like Britt or Hicks in the 2nd round, our offs and with it JR will take the next step to be a great team.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-28-2008, 04:44 PM
Lol how could you say this? Mario has played very good and I can see him being a nice RT.

Here's why this idea worries me. Oakland has been running to the right side almost entirely during Henderson's starts even though Robert Gallery is the best drive blocker on the team. He's shown he can pass protect decently, but why put him at right tackle if he can't run block? I do think that Henderson is best off as a backup tackle, because he's neither the quality I want for either tackle.

bernbabybern820
12-28-2008, 05:14 PM
Here's why this idea worries me. Oakland has been running to the right side almost entirely during Henderson's starts even though Robert Gallery is the best drive blocker on the team. He's shown he can pass protect decently, but why put him at right tackle if he can't run block? I do think that Henderson is best off as a backup tackle, because he's neither the quality I want for either tackle.

IDK its beginning to look like getting a pass rusher is our biggest need. If Orakpo is available i think he should be drafted. I'm just really confused right now. We also have to see what happens with the Aso situation.

NIN1984
12-28-2008, 09:14 PM
Its kind of hard to judge with only 5 starts I believe but he has played well during these last 3 games. If Tom Cable returns I wouldn't be surprised if Henderson is the starting LT going into training camp. I still think this team needs O-Line, its just simply not good enough.

Abaddon
12-28-2008, 10:07 PM
and if we draft a LT with our 1st pick or sign Gross(imo the better option) the OL would look great.
maybe get 2 WRs through the draft, like Britt or Hicks in the 2nd round, our offs and with it JR will take the next step to be a great team.

Draft 2 WRs? Which one is going to play defense for us?

NotoRussell
12-29-2008, 07:25 AM
the idea of drafting the two wrs is if we get rid of Walker and Curry, in order to save money for Gross.
the other draft picks should be invested on the defs.

NotoRussell
12-29-2008, 07:27 AM
IDK its beginning to look like getting a pass rusher is our biggest need. If Orakpo is available i think he should be drafted. I'm just really confused right now. We also have to see what happens with the Aso situation.

im, too. our team has so many needs, that we cant fill it through the draft

Abaddon
12-30-2008, 12:08 PM
the idea of drafting the two wrs is if we get rid of Walker and Curry, in order to save money for Gross.
the other draft picks should be invested on the defs.

So we basically make no effort to improve right away via the draft. That just doesn't work for me. Our first pick has to be a lineman of some sort.

I could see taking a WR in Rd2, but we'd be foolish to spend such a high pick on that position.

Personally, I'd rather bring in a veteran receiver (not a scrub like Javon Walker) and shoot for my WR outside of Rd1.

I'd keep an eye on guys like Bryant Johnson, Amani Toomer, or even Michael Clayton, Devery Henderson, and Koren Robinson. I don't mention TJ Houshmandzadeh simply because he's not going to leave a bad team to come to a worse team.

Drew Carter looked good before getting hurt. I'd like to bring him back.

Higgy Bear and Schilens showed a little something down the stretch, so we'll have some guys with some upside on the roster. We just need to get a veteran in here, preferably a possession type guy like Toomer, to give the Big Dummy a security blanket other than Miller.

I'm hoping Hakeem Nicks has a bad combine. Maybe we can steal him in Rd2 if he runs a 4.6 or fumbles the Wonderlic or something.

NotoRussell
12-30-2008, 12:48 PM
i agree with you that we should draft a lineman in the 1st round and to get Nicks or Britt in the 2nd would be my dream scenario.

Dark Knight01
01-17-2009, 09:57 PM
Now that Mays isn't there to tempt old stubborn man Al, it looks as though our pick will come down to Crabtree, Oher, or Orakpo or E Brown, maaaaaybe Maualuga.

I hope the old man doesn't pick Harvin or Maclin with that #7 pick.

There will be plenty of WR's in this draft with the same skill set as Harvin and Maclin.

I would rather see them draft Nicks or Kenny Britt later, then invest an early pick on a WR who will not be starting or contributing heavily right away. The Raiders need a player who will contribute and hopefully start right away with the #7 pick.

RaiderNation
01-17-2009, 11:29 PM
Id say Monroe,Oher J.Smith,Crabtree,Maclin, Raji, Orakpo, Brown and Curry are the most likely picks right now.

I agree Id like for us to get a WR in round 2 like Nicks, Britt or LaFell.

NotoRussell
01-18-2009, 04:15 AM
Britt would be a dream come true, but he will be 1st round pick after the combines, imo.

ChefMike
01-18-2009, 08:40 AM
Ok I think you need to address your WR spot in the 1st and then draft OL OL OL the rest of the day and revamp the entire OL then pay Kirk Frentz anything he wants to come and coach your OL for the next 2 years. He would bring discipline and dedication to a unit that has NONE ! The Raiders have too much tradition to be wallowing in the toilet as long as they have. I want to see the Black and Silver back on top !!!!!!!!!

Who is running the Def now that Ryan has gone to Cleveland ?

Abaddon
01-19-2009, 01:48 AM
Nobody right now.

We have a good line coach doubling as a head coach...we think. Coaching isn't the OL's problem. It's the lack of good players that's killing us. Gallery is adequate. Grove is an injury prone puss. Carlisle is a FA. Cornell Green is bad. Kwame Harris is horrendous. Mario Henderson is still largely an unknown quantity. Chris Morris is a decent reserve. Paul McQuistan, if he can stay healthy, could solidify the RG or even RT position...or he may be a career backup. TBD.

Basically, we have a LG and 4 question marks. Scary.

Still, there's not a WR in this class I'd burn the #7 overall pick on. I just can't see it.

NotoRussell
01-19-2009, 06:23 AM
the only WR is Crabs who is worth the 7th pick!

Dark Knight01
01-24-2009, 04:02 PM
After seeing Senior Bowl practices I keep coming back to drafting Maualuga with the 7th pick if Crabtree is not there and if there is no trade down. This freakin team needs TOUGHNESS and even if Rey doesn’t make the play, it will allow the other defenders to make the play. He will have no weight issues...he will be a Polamalu type of player. Hmmm….lets see…

Round 1- MLB- Rey Maualuga (need a nasty MLB who will lay the wood and help this team get tougher)

Round 2- DT- Evander “Ziggy” Hood (another strong, fast and tough player who is aggressive and can also see spot duty as a 4-3 DE)

Round 3- RG/RT- Trevor Canfield (another player with a mean streak who is tough and physical and will only get stronger, best fit for a ZBS team as a RG or RT.)

Round 4- WR- Demetrius Byrd- Solid build and has upside. At LSU he was a deep threat, from what people say he just needs to work on his concentration and route running.

DE Robert Ayers might be there in round 4 and also Center Jonathan Luigs might be there in round 4 as well.


I also would like to see the team draft FB Quinn Johnson from LSU in the later rounds. He is stud of a blocking FB and he can catch the ball out of the backfield. Need a blocking FB to replace O'Neal who will not be ready to go next year. Griffith is not a pure blocking FB.

bernbabybern820
01-24-2009, 04:55 PM
After seeing Senior Bowl practices I keep coming back to drafting Maualuga with the 7th pick if Crabtree is not there and if there is no trade down. This freakin team needs TOUGHNESS and even if Rey doesn’t make the play, it will allow the other defenders to make the play. He will have no weight issues...he will be a Polamalu type of player. Hmmm….lets see…

Round 1- MLB- Rey Maualuga (need a nasty MLB who will lay the wood and help this team get tougher)

Round 2- DT- Evander “Ziggy” Hood (another strong, fast and tough player who is aggressive and can also see spot duty as a 4-3 DE)

Round 3- RG/RT- Trevor Canfield (another player with a mean streak who is tough and physical and will only get stronger, best fit for a ZBS team as a RG or RT.)

Round 4- WR- Demetrius Byrd- Solid build and has upside. At LSU he was a deep threat, from what people say he just needs to work on his concentration and route running.

DE Robert Ayers might be there in round 4 and also Center Jonathan Luigs might be there in round 4 as well.


I also would like to see the team draft FB Quinn Johnson from LSU in the later rounds. He is stud of a blocking FB and he can catch the ball out of the backfield. Need a blocking FB to replace O'Neal who will not be ready to go next year. Griffith is not a pure blocking FB.

Let me guess. You're from Cali and a USC fan?

619
01-25-2009, 10:12 AM
Let me guess. You're from Cali and a USC fan?

No other way to explain it. Rey Rey has some work to do to get himself back into the top half of the draft.

Kurve
01-25-2009, 07:40 PM
i think OT is first priority the talent level usually from draft to draft is that there tends to be a significant drop off in talent in the OL prospects after first round early second. I think youll see some of the WRs will drop off to the second round as they did last year. I think someone like Bey or Harvin in the early second might be possible.

RaiderNation
01-25-2009, 08:49 PM
Ya one of the Wr's is going to fall into the second or late 1st. I think its either Nicks, Britt or DHB. Any of those 3 will help this team alot

Abaddon
01-25-2009, 08:58 PM
I wouldn't touch Harvin before Rd3, personally. We already have one fast guy with no true NFL position (McFadden). Adding another doesn't help us much. Nevermind the durability concerns.

Granted, this will change dramatically after the combine, but the value where we pick appears to be one the offensive line. I don't like Maclin or Crabtree as top 10 picks, and Al doesn't trade down in Rd1...ever. So, if Jason Smith or Eugene Monroe is there for us, I think we pretty much have to pounce on him unless Raji has secured himself as a top 10 pick. Then, I figure we have 3 really good options.

Rd2 is wide open. Is Nicks there? What about Alex Mack? Could there be a decent D-lineman there? Doubtful on all 3 counts, but it's worth looking out for.

RBolyar2
01-26-2009, 08:10 PM
I wouldn't touch Harvin before Rd3, personally. We already have one fast guy with no true NFL position (McFadden). Adding another doesn't help us much. Nevermind the durability concerns.

Granted, this will change dramatically after the combine, but the value where we pick appears to be one the offensive line. I don't like Maclin or Crabtree as top 10 picks, and Al doesn't trade down in Rd1...ever. So, if Jason Smith or Eugene Monroe is there for us, I think we pretty much have to pounce on him unless Raji has secured himself as a top 10 pick. Then, I figure we have 3 really good options.

Rd2 is wide open. Is Nicks there? What about Alex Mack? Could there be a decent D-lineman there? Doubtful on all 3 counts, but it's worth looking out for.

So McFadden got hurt....... why exactly doesn't he have a position? There's not reason if the Raiders fail to trade Fargas that they can't go with a three back committee next season with McFadden clearly being the most explosive.

Also, Crabtree is probably the second best wide receiver prospect I've seen coming out of college the last ten seasons behind Calvin Johnson. Obviously Crabtree won't run that good at the combine, but his hands are automatic and would fit nicely opposite Higgins.

locseti
01-27-2009, 12:07 AM
We best get one of the top tackles in the first, this is a damn good crop of OL, and we need some toughness in the trenches more than anything. I am confident that one of the talented receivers will fall, and I also think there will be some BIG overlooked WR's available later in the draft (Ramses Barden, Jaison Williams, Pat Turner) that we can put opposite Higgins.

locseti
01-27-2009, 12:10 AM
So McFadden got hurt....... why exactly doesn't he have a position?

He means that he's pretty much a situational player in the NFL, a Reggie Bush type. I'm pretty sure all Raider fans have come to accept the fact that he will never be an every down, between the tackles runner.

Abaddon
01-27-2009, 07:13 AM
He means that he's pretty much a situational player in the NFL, a Reggie Bush type. I'm pretty sure all Raider fans have come to accept the fact that he will never be an every down, between the tackles runner.

What he said.

Also, Crabtree is probably the second best wide receiver prospect I've seen coming out of college the last ten seasons behind Calvin Johnson. Obviously Crabtree won't run that good at the combine, but his hands are automatic and would fit nicely opposite Higgins.

Did you really just rate Crabtree ahead of Fitzgerald? Seriously?


Wow.

Abaddon
01-27-2009, 07:17 AM
We best get one of the top tackles in the first, this is a damn good crop of OL, and we need some toughness in the trenches more than anything. I am confident that one of the talented receivers will fall, and I also think there will be some BIG overlooked WR's available later in the draft (Ramses Barden, Jaison Williams, Pat Turner) that we can put opposite Higgins.

I'm not ready to hand Higgins a starting job just yet. I'd prefer it if we could keep him in the slot and off the field for most run downs. I am a fan of the guy, though. I don't think he's peaked quite yet.

BigTron
01-27-2009, 10:16 AM
Yes. He is better at LT than Shilens and JLH are at the #1/#2 spot at WR. That makes WR a bigger need IMO. Henderson played very well in passing situations last year against some decent DE's. He may not be the answer but he is a better stop gap than Shilens at #1 WR!!! JaMarcus's WR's dropped SO many passes. His comp% would be way better with a reciever with good hands. His TD to INT ratio was nice for the situation IMO.

RBolyar2
01-27-2009, 02:30 PM
What he said.



Did you really just rate Crabtree ahead of Fitzgerald? Seriously?


Wow.

Will Crabtree be better than Fitzgerald? No, he doesn't have the size/speed combination, but Crabtree DOES look like a better receiver coming out of school.

And he looks better than Randy Moss coming out of school. And Torry Holt. And Andre Johnson. And Keyshawn Johnson. And anyone else I can think of off the top my head, but again, that doesn't mean his career will be better than any of them. I think he has incredible hands. Good strength, and route running, but we'll have to see if he can gain seperation at the pro level, and if he can maintain concentration when he isn't getting 20 passes thrown him per game.

Heart of Oak
01-27-2009, 05:37 PM
I appreciate that Al doesn't trade down, but that is actually the best scenario for us.

Given Mario's encouraging performances at LT, we need to 'sell' the #7 pick for a 1st and 2nd (preferably mid round). That way we can draft the #5 OT Eben Britton (he is a good fit for ZBS, has played RT, and is better value for money than any of the supposed top-4); Alex Mack (best interior lineman IMO, possibly the best lineman, but I reckon he will drop to the top of the 2nd as not many Centers go round 1); With the second 2nd rounder, we take the best WR available - hopefully Britt, maybe Nicks or DHB (there will be one of them available).

I wouldn't mind us trading up the 2nd round picks to high 2nd to get Britton / Mack / Britt.

So in essence, we should still take OT, but pick a little lower, given we are looking for a RT.

Abaddon
01-28-2009, 01:00 AM
Will Crabtree be better than Fitzgerald? No, he doesn't have the size/speed combination, but Crabtree DOES look like a better receiver coming out of school.

And he looks better than Randy Moss coming out of school. And Torry Holt. And Andre Johnson. And Keyshawn Johnson. And anyone else I can think of off the top my head, but again, that doesn't mean his career will be better than any of them. I think he has incredible hands. Good strength, and route running, but we'll have to see if he can gain seperation at the pro level, and if he can maintain concentration when he isn't getting 20 passes thrown him per game.

Pretty safe bet that no one on earth, outside of a few TTU homers, share this assessment of Crabtree as a prospect. I can't decide whether I should be laughing or rubbing my eyes and re-reading this.

No offense intended.

Abaddon
01-28-2009, 01:27 AM
Yes. He is better at LT than Shilens and JLH are at the #1/#2 spot at WR. That makes WR a bigger need IMO. Henderson played very well in passing situations last year against some decent DE's. He may not be the answer but he is a better stop gap than Shilens at #1 WR!!! JaMarcus's WR's dropped SO many passes. His comp% would be way better with a reciever with good hands. His TD to INT ratio was nice for the situation IMO.

If his WRs weren't having to contort and chase his errant throws, they probably wouldn't have dropped so many passes.

I don't really care about his completion % or TD/INT ratio. Watching him play, watching him throw almost uncatchable passes outside...there wasn't much our WRs could do for him. Of course we need better WRs. But the fact remains that Russell has to get a lot better before upgrading at WR will really help enough to matter.

But, that's neither here nor there. It doesn't matter which is the bigger need. What matters is getting the best players with our picks. With that said, I'd rate a top flight LT over any of the WRs in this class. Crabtree isn't on the Fitzgerald/Calvin Johnson level. Maclin isn't either. To me, that makes them poor value picks in the top 10.

Nevermind the fact that a rookie WR isn't likely to make much of an impact as a rookie, and probably won't be ready to start as a sophomore. Whereas, someone like Monroe or Jason Smith could start right away and immediately improve the entire offense.

It really does all start up front. The only way we can reasonably expect to prevent Russell and McFadden from being complete busts is to build up the offensive line into something respectable. WR, while an obvious need, is a secondary position and a secondary concern. One that could be addressed after Rd1 and in free agency. Get the big dummy a couple decent veteran WRs and a rookie in Rd2 and he'll hopefully be salvageable.

Dark Knight01
01-28-2009, 03:07 PM
My Revised preferred Raider Mock....

RD 1- OT Eugene Monroe (this guy will be a solid RT or LT in the ZBS under Cables tutelage. This team needs to get tougher, stronger and nastier. It starts with this guy and picking him makes the O-Line stronger)

RD 2- DT Evander "Ziggy" Hood or Fili Moala (tougher, stronger, and nastier continues)

RD 3- MLB Jasper Brinkley (a 6'3 265-270 pound BEAST of a MLB who will help against the run and continue the tougher, stonger and nastier theme of this draft.....we can move Morrison back to OLB)

RD 4- WR Patrick Turner (chances are this big and strong WR will be gone in Round 3, but if he is there when we pick in round 4, they should snatch him. Hasn't played his best football yet and may not have elite speed, but is a good route runner.)

In the later Rounds 6 or 7, the pick should be a blocking TE or blocking FB Quinn Johnson from LSU...since Oren O'Neal will not be ready to play next year. Johnson can also catch passes out of the backfield.

Remember this draft needs to be about drafting players who are TOUGHER, STRONGER, AND NASTIER than the previous drafts where the focus was mainly on athletes who ran 4.3 or 4.4 40 times.

Abaddon
01-29-2009, 08:11 AM
Morrison at SAM would be pretty funny. He'd be on the wrong end of a SportsCenter highlight every week.

Dark Knight01
01-29-2009, 02:16 PM
Morrison at SAM would be pretty funny. He'd be on the wrong end of a SportsCenter highlight every week.



If Morrison can't play SAM, then Brinkley can play the SAM spot.

619
01-29-2009, 08:06 PM
If Morrison can't play SAM, then Brinkley can play the SAM spot.

Not sure either would really flourish at SAM, but Morrison would definitely be the better option if that situation were to come up. Captain Kirk is fine, not great where he is playing right now. I also don't feel we need to look at LB until maybe later in the draft.

UK_Raider
01-30-2009, 09:21 AM
Hey everyone. Just joined the message boards after spending the past couple of years reading along over here in the UK.

I think Mario playing ok over the past couple of games does change our draft plans - IF Cable gets hired as HC.

If that's the case, I'm wondering if we should draft DT B.J. Raji?? Fom what Scott's said about him at the Senior Bowl, he could sit in there with Tommy Kelly and allow the LBs to get to the ball carrier.

We could then get another lineman (either RT or a C like Alex Mack) later on in the first day. What do you think??

NotoRussell
01-30-2009, 01:51 PM
welcome to the forum!
I like the Raji pick, but not at 7, so if we want to pick him we should trade down, IMO.
with our 1st we should go for one of the 4 top OTs and draft with our 2nd a wr, so we get the protection and the good target for JR with the first two picks.
the next picks should we bring some good defense players.

Donno
01-30-2009, 03:04 PM
I would have no problem with the Raiders taking Raji at the 7th pick. LT is a way bigger need but Raji would really help that DL out big time.

Dark Knight01
01-30-2009, 07:24 PM
Here is my revised Raider mock if a TRADE DOWN occurs, which it should!

This is what the old man should do if he TRULY wants this team to get TOUGHER, STRONGER, NASTIER in the trenches.

TRADE DOWN no more than 5 spots if they can….

With the 1st pick Draft a beast DE who can do it all and play as a standup pass rusher as well in Everette Brown.

Round 2 draft a DT like Ron Brace or Evander Hood, and then with the other 2nd round pick aquired in the trade down get a OT like Kropok who fits the ZBS and can play RT.

3RD round get a Center like AQ Shipley who can play in the ZBS.

Then in the 4TH round draft a WR like Patrick Turner.

Boom! The team is that much tougher and physical in the trenches and you get nice big target who hasn’t peaked yet in Patrick Turner who will be able to contribute right away most likely and can run block.

In the later rounds they should draft a blocking TE who can still catch the ball and a blocking like FB Quinn Johnson from LSU since O’Neal is not going to be ready to play next season.

That’s a mans draft and it all starts with TRADING DOWN and getting an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick!