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ThePudge
12-22-2008, 05:51 PM
Hey everybody, I know it hasn't been all too long since I put out my last big board, two and a half weeks for those eagerly counting. However, I wanted to put a board out before the bowl season truly got into full swing (tomorrow's Boise State/TCU game will be the first great game.) After this I plan to put a board out pre-Senior Bowl, so it won't be all too soon. A few things have changed and my board has shaken up a bit. I am, as usual, open and encouraging to comments, arguments, disagreements, etc. Hope everyone has a happy holiday, no matter what you celebrate. Here's your first present. ;)

1. Andre Smith - OT - Alabama*
2. Aaron Curry - LB - Wake Forest
3. Matthew Stafford - QB - Georgia*
4. Malcolm Jenkins - CB - Ohio State
5. Michael Crabtree - WR - Texas Tech**
6. Chris "Beanie" Wells - RB - Ohio State*
7. Sam Bradford - QB - Oklahoma**
8. Everette Brown - DE/OLB - Florida State*
9. Brian Orakpo - DE/OLB - Texas
10. Taylor Mays - S - USC*
11. Jason Smith - OT - Baylor
12. Michael Oher - OT - Mississippi
13. Jeremy Maclin - WR/RS - Missouri**
14. Aaron Maybin - OLB/DE - Penn State*
15. Eugene Monroe - OT - Virginia
16. Vontae Davis - CB - Illinois*
17. Jermaine Gresham - TE - Oklahoma*
18. LeSean McCoy - RB - Pittsburgh**
19. James Laurinaitis - MLB/WLB - Ohio State
20. Rey Maualuga - ILB - USC
21. Greg Hardy - DE - Mississippi*
22. B.J. Raji - DT/NT - Boston College
23. Tyson Jackson - DE - LSU
24. Knowshon Moreno - RB - Georgia**
25. Brian Cushing - OLB - USC
26. Darrius Heyward-Bey - WR/KR - Maryland*
27. Brandon Spikes - MLB - Florida*
28. William Moore - S/WLB - Missouri
29. Eben Britton - OT - Arizona*
30. Michael Johnson - DE - Georgia Tech
31. Russell Okung - OT - Oklahoma State*
32. George Selvie - DE/OLB - South Florida
33. Sen'Derrick Marks - DT - Auburn*
34. Max Unger - C/OL - Oregon
35. D.J. Moore - CB - Vanderbilt
36. Ciron Black - OT - LSU*
37. Sean Weatherspoon - OLB - Missouri*
38. Brandon Pettigrew - TE - Oklahoma State
39. Alex Mack - C - California
40. Duke Robinson - OG - Oklahoma
41. Peria Jerry - DT - Mississippi
42. Larry English - DE/OLB - Northern Illinois
43. Alphonso Smith - CB - Wake Forest
44. Clint Sintim - OLB - Virginia
45. Sean Smith - CB - Utah*
46. Percy Harvin - WR/RS - Florida*
47. Jared Cook - TE - South Carolina*
48. Terence "Mount" Cody - NT - Alabama*
49. Kenny Britt - WR - Rutgers*
50. Sergio Kindle - OLB - Texas
51. CJ Spiller - RB - Clemson*
52. Rashad Johnson - S - Alabama
53. Clay Matthews - OLB - USC
54. Louis Delmas - S - Western Michigan
55. Emmanuel Cook - S - South Carolina*
56. Trevard Lindley - CB - Kentucky*
57. Jamon Meredith - OT - South Carolina
58. Marcus Freeman - OLB - Ohio State
59. Darius Butler - CB - Connecticut
60. Herman Johnson - OG/RT - LSU
61. Sergio Render - OG - Virginia Tech*
62. Connor Barwin - DE/OLB - Cincinnati
63. Chase Coffman - TE - Missouri
64. Nate Davis - QB - Ball State*
65. Juaquin Iglesias - WR - Oklahoma
66. Sherrod Martin - CB/S - Troy
67. James Davis - RB - Clemson
68. Auston English - DE/OLB - Oklahoma*
69. Shonn Greene - RB - Iowa*
70. Troy Kropog - OT - Tulane
71. Patrick Chung - S - Oregon
72. Phil Loadholt - OT - Oklahoma
73. Andy Levitre - OG/C - Oregon State
74. Evander Hood - DT - Missouri
75. Mike Mickens - CB - Cincinnati
76. Rashad Jennings - RB - Liberty
77. Michael Hamlin - S - Clemson
78. Cornelius Ingram - TE - Florida*
79. Dannell Ellerbe - MLB - Georgia
80. Louis Murphy - WR - Florida
81. Fili Moala - DT - USC
82. Mohamed Massaqoui - WR - Georgia
83. Darry Beckwith - MLB - USC
84. Cody Brown - DE/OLB - Connecticut
85. Victor "Macho" Harris - CB - Virginia Tech
86. Eric Wood - C - Louisville
87. Kraig Urbik - OG/RT - Wisconsin
88. DeAngelo Smith - CB - Cincinnati
89. Derrick Williams - WR - Penn State
90. Derek Pegues - S/CB - Mississippi State
91. David Bruton - S - Notre Dame
92. Travis Beckum - TE - Wisconsin
93. Jonathan Luigs - C - Arkansas
94. Brandon Tate - WR/KR - North Carolina
95. Terrence Taylor - DT/NT - Michigan
96. Javon Ringer - RB - Michigan State
97. Vance Walker - DT - Georgia Tech
98. Ron Brace - DT - Boston College
99. Kevin Barnes - CB - Maryland
100. Ramses Barden - WR - Cal-Poly
and one for good luck... 101. Rhett Bomar - QB - Sam Houston State

Right on that outer cusp (in order by position)
- Tim Tebow - H-B - Florida
- Brian Hartline - WR - Ohio State*
- Brian Robiskie - WR - Ohio State
- Demetrius Byrd - WR - LSU
- Shawn Nelson - TE - Southern Miss
- Alex Boone - RT - Ohio State
- Tyronne Green - OG - Auburn
- Trevor Canfield - OG/RT - Cincinnati
- Antoine Caldwell - C - Alabama
- Darryl Richard - DT - Georgia Tech
- Boo Robinson - DT - Missouri
- Will Davis - DE - Illinois
- Matt Shaugnessy - DE - Wisconsin
- Tyrone McKenzie - LB - South Florida
- Jonathan Casillas - LB - Wisconsin
- Kaluka Maiava - LB - USC
- Anthony Heygood - LB - Purdue
- Curtis Taylor - S - LSU
- Courtney Greene - S - Rutgers
- Cary Harris - CB - USC
- Joe Burnett - CB - Central Florida
- Brandon Underwood - CB/S - Cincinnati
- Domonique Johnson - CB - Jackson State


Newcomers:
- Aaron Maybin - OLB/DE
- Sean Smith - CB
- Emmanuel Cook - S
- Ramses Barden - WR

Out:
- Donald Brown - RB - Connecticut (has said he will stay in school, the logical choice for him)

Notable Risers:
- Clay Matthews +35 _ #88 ---> #53
- Rashad Jennings +34 _ Honorable. ---> #76
- Connor Bawin +25 _ #87 ---> #62
- Louis Delmas +23 _ #77 ---> #54
- Larry English +22 _ #64 ---> #42

Notable Fallers:
- Tim Tebow -48 _ #52 ---> Honorable Mention
- Jonathan Luigs -31 _ #62 --->#93
- Tyronne Green -27 _ #73 ---> Honorable Mention
- Eben Britton -16 _ #13 ---> #29
- William Moore -12 _ #16 ---> #28


Tear it up. Enjoy!

ThePudge
12-22-2008, 11:24 PM
The fact that no one has even a slight disagreement is simply mind-boggling. Looks like I've truly out-done myself this time haha :)

Sniper
12-22-2008, 11:29 PM
Derrick Williams in the top 100?

http://thecraptastics.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/fail.jpg

illmatic74
12-22-2008, 11:31 PM
Derrick Williams in the top 100?

http://thecraptastics.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/fail.jpgWhy do you hate Derrick Williams so much.

Sniper
12-22-2008, 11:36 PM
Why do you hate Derrick Williams so much.

Because he's not good, and people insist on trying to make him out to be good.

ThePudge
12-22-2008, 11:36 PM
Why do you hate Derrick Williams so much.

Any Big Ten fan from Pennsylvania who has to watch Williams attempt to play WR week in and week out for four straight years would. I am not high, at all, on Williams. I feel like he is a Kick Returner with Wide Receiver potential, not the other way around. He runs poor routes, is not a big-play threat, has shaky hands, and simply has not improved much since his freshman season.

Still, with all that being said, I think a team will make the unfortunate mistake of selecting him in the first three rounds of the draft based on how he times and how he returns kicks. He will need a lot of coaching seeing as he's an excellent athlete trying to play football, rather than a football player who happens to be a great athlete. Needs work big time, but I had to be realistic.

He is somewhat comparable to Antwan Randle El (upside) or Courtney Roby (downside). Personally, the Roby comparison seems more likely.

Sniper
12-22-2008, 11:37 PM
Any Big Ten fan from Pennsylvania who has to watch Williams attempt to play WR week in and week out for four straight years would. I am not high, at all, on Williams. I feel like he is a Kick Returner with Wide Receiver potential, not the other way around. He runs poor routes, is not a big-play threat, has shaky hands, and simply has not improved much since his freshman season.

Still, with all that being said, I think a team will make the unfortunate mistake of selecting him in the first three rounds of the draft based on how he times and how he returns kicks. He will need a lot of coaching seeing as he's an excellent athlete trying to play football, rather than a football player who happens to be a great athlete. Needs work big time, but I had to be realistic.

He is somewhat comparable to Antwan Randle El (upside) or Courtney Roby (downside). Personally, the Roby comparison seems more likely.

Fair enough. Thanks for defending your opinion.

Staggart
12-22-2008, 11:38 PM
Not so hot on Taylor Mays (he just cant be that fast...)

I really like Raji. Big strong and a hell of a run stopper

good job though.

ThePudge
12-22-2008, 11:48 PM
Not so hot on Taylor Mays (he just cant be that fast...)

I really like Raji. Big strong and a hell of a run stopper

good job though.

I'm sorry, but Mays is that fast (likely to run right around 4.3 at 230 lbs) and physically he's one of the top Safety prospects ever. Unfortunately, that's the only position he can touch a guy like Sean Taylor in. He moves very quickly to the ball and is capable of being an absolute terror in the run game and doesn't allow many big plays on the back end, which is one of those things you love in a Safety. Still, he has yet to demonstrate elite cover skills, and has been somewhat inconsistent against the run. A tremendous talent who is likely a notch below LaRon Landry as a prospect, though Landry was a much better football player at this point in his career.

Raji is a fun prospect that people can truly go back and forth on. He's a disruptor and perhaps the best or second best (Gerald McCoy) draft-eligible Defensive Tackle in terms of raw talent. He has his inconsistencies though, like all DT's, and character issues that caused him to miss an entire season. He has Top-15 talent, but I think his true stock sits right around 20-25 at this point.

Sniper
12-23-2008, 07:37 AM
Still, he has yet to demonstrate elite cover skills

I disagree. There's a reason why he is the deep safety and that's because of his elite range.

princefielder28
12-23-2008, 08:44 AM
Pudge, is Max Unger ahead of Mack because of his versatility?

Matthew Jones
12-23-2008, 10:05 AM
Matt Stafford is a bit high for me, but lots of people have his stock that high...With two quarterbacks, a wide receiver, and a running back in your top seven, you must be feeling pretty risky...Running backs are becoming easy enough to find in the NFL that I don't buy Chris Wells in the top ten, he might not even be teh best running back in the draft...I like the inclusion of Taylor Mays in the top ten, I think he ends up there when it's all said and done...Vontae Davis is a bit high by me, plenty of players in the draft are talented and he was sent to the bench...Greg Hardy might be a bit low, he could be a headache but he's supremely talented...Sen'Derrick Marks got outclassed by Peria Jerry this year, but has a higher ranking...Sean Weatherspoon could end up being this year's Jon Beason if he comes out...Shonn Greene is pretty low for a guy that ran for 100+ yards in every game this season...It's funny, after talking about how much you didn't like Williams, you have him ranked in the top three rounds still...just my thoughts. Nice work overall.

the decider13
12-23-2008, 10:07 AM
I've noticed that Moore is falling on peoples boards, whats the reasoning?

I hope he falls to the Broncos.

SuperKevin
12-23-2008, 10:09 AM
It bothers me when people say Taylor Mays isn't fast. He was a 2 time state champion in the 100 and 200 meters in high school. Gotta be fast to do that.

ThePudge
12-23-2008, 12:57 PM
Pudge, is Max Unger ahead of Mack because of his versatility?

Athleticism, versatility, yes. I think Mack will be a great pro, and I think he's an early second round pick. However, if one of those prospects does, in fact, crack the first round, I would expect it to be Unger. Unger's had a tremendous season this year and could conceivably play any position on the offensive line in a zone-blocking scheme (Green Bay, Denver, Houston). To me, it's matter of simple preference. If Mack were ranked above Unger somewhere, I could definitely see why, due to more polished technique, leverage, and experience at the Center position (while having the capability to play Left Guard.) I think the two a are very close.

ThePudge
12-23-2008, 01:01 PM
I've noticed that Moore is falling on peoples boards, whats the reasoning?

I hope he falls to the Broncos.

His play definitely dropped off a bit this season and many feel he is a bit more raw than originally thought. To me, he is beginning to look a bit like former Georgia Safety Thomas Davis. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but a somewhat confusing thing. To move him back up, into the mid-first range, I would like to see him standout as a Safety in the Senior Bowl week.

ThePudge
12-23-2008, 01:16 PM
Matt Stafford is a bit high for me, but lots of people have his stock that high...With two quarterbacks, a wide receiver, and a running back in your top seven, you must be feeling pretty risky...Running backs are becoming easy enough to find in the NFL that I don't buy Chris Wells in the top ten, he might not even be teh best running back in the draft...I like the inclusion of Taylor Mays in the top ten, I think he ends up there when it's all said and done...Vontae Davis is a bit high by me, plenty of players in the draft are talented and he was sent to the bench...Greg Hardy might be a bit low, he could be a headache but he's supremely talented...Sen'Derrick Marks got outclassed by Peria Jerry this year, but has a higher ranking...Sean Weatherspoon could end up being this year's Jon Beason if he comes out...Shonn Greene is pretty low for a guy that ran for 100+ yards in every game this season...It's funny, after talking about how much you didn't like Williams, you have him ranked in the top three rounds still...just my thoughts. Nice work overall.

(See above for Williams, where I discussed him with Sniper) - I don't like him, but I recognize the fact that he is likely to be drafted by the Late 3rd-Early 4th.

Wells may not be the best running back in this class when all is said and done. However, though Matt Forte, Steve Slaton, Jonathan Stewart, and Chris Johnson are out-producing Darren McFadden, does that mean that McFadden wasn't the top running back prospect a year ago? In the end, I can not guarantee that Wells will be a star in the NFL, but he certainly has the talent to become one. At 6'1 237 back in the 4.40-4.45 (some expect higher, some expect lower) Wells has plenty of power, a great stiff arm, and big-play ability, even against elite teams. Some argue Wells doesn't run consistently hard enough and he is injury prone. While the first may be true, the second is on a much smaller scale than say, the top Running Back in the NFL, Adrian Peterson. He's a Top 5 talent who falls due to those couple flaws. No one can doubt this guy's talent where he is up there with guys like McFadden and Peterson when they came out.

Hardy's talent alone would warrant a Top 10 spot. Still, that's not all we have to take into account when grading players. He is a headache and did not really establish himself vs. the run this season (though he was rarely used on running downs.) A potentially dominant pass-rusher who will have to mature quickly.

Marks is one player I'm up and down on, I like his upside as opposed to Jerry, but at the same time you can't discount the year Jerry had. You could make a real argument either way. When motivated, however, Marks was one of the top DT's in the game and perhaps one of the top NFL prospects at Defensive Tackles. Has some consistency issues though and will be scrutinized on all levels.

Shonn Greene is that low because he hasn't demonstrated breakaway speed or much wiggle in his game. If he can show me otherwise, say in the South Carolina game against an SEC defense or at the NFL Combine, I would definitely reconsider. Right now though, Early 3rd would be my spot for him.

I like Weatherspoon a lot, and though he doesn't hit like Beason did, he could very well become a fast riser in this draft similarly to Beason or Jerod Mayo. Once he does start to inch forward, I'll be all over moving him up.

Sniper
12-23-2008, 01:22 PM
Shonn Greene is that low because he hasn't demonstrated breakaway speed or much wiggle in his game. If he can show me otherwise, say in the South Carolina game against an SEC defense or at the NFL Combine, I would definitely reconsider. Right now though, Early 3rd would be my spot for him.


He had 16 rushes of 20+ yards, tied for 2nd in the country. Gotta have some semblance of speed to do that.

SuperKevin
12-23-2008, 01:29 PM
The breakaway speed argument for a RB always bothered me. To me there is no problem taking a "slow" guy with the strength to get you 5 yards a carry. I don't need 50 yard runs every play but I do need a guy who can help move the chains with regularity.

DiG
12-23-2008, 01:30 PM
im really surprised to see Jerry that low. As a whole I think that you are over rating some of your olineman in the middle area. I personally never do overall rankings because I think it is too difficult to pair up an OT vs a CB and so forth. So much depends on team needs, depth in the draft in that position, and a ton of other factors.

No love for Nicks?

ThePudge
12-23-2008, 01:30 PM
He had 16 rushes of 20+ yards, tied for 2nd in the country. Gotta have some semblance of speed to do that.

Oh, I'm not saying he's a stiff. I got the chance to watch plenty of Greene while going to school in the midwest. I would expect him to run right around 4.55 which isn't slow. I still don't think he's a home-run threat though at the next level. He's a powerful runner, he moves through the hole quickly, and finishes his runs, but I don't know if he adds that big-play scare at the next level like he did at Iowa (to an extent.) I like Greene as a prospect and for now, I would stick with Early 3rd, with the potential to fly up the boards at the Combine if he does something truly unexpected

ThePudge
12-23-2008, 01:34 PM
im really surprised to see Jerry that low. As a whole I think that you are over rating some of your olineman in the middle area. I personally never do overall rankings because I think it is too difficult to pair up an OT vs a CB and so forth. So much depends on team needs, depth in the draft in that position, and a ton of other factors.

No love for Nicks?

If you're referring to Hakeem Nicks, I didn't include him yet. I do expect him to declare though, so we'll have to see when all is said and done.

Jerry is more pushed down by the amount of talent around him. I think he's a Late First-Early Second round pick, but due to my somewhat liberal use of underclassmen, he has been pushed down the boards a bit. I think from roughly 27 to 47, everyone is very closely ranked and it depends really on personal preference as far as where to rank them.

DiG
12-23-2008, 01:36 PM
If you're referring to Hakeem Nicks, I didn't include him yet. I do expect him to declare though, so we'll have to see when all is said and done.


I too fully expect him to declare and I have him right there with Britt as a guy that will flirt with a late first to mid second range. Nicks would be a close second behind DHB as to my favorite wr prospect in the draft.

ThePudge
12-23-2008, 01:47 PM
The breakaway speed argument for a RB always bothered me. To me there is no problem taking a "slow" guy with the strength to get you 5 yards a carry. I don't need 50 yard runs every play but I do need a guy who can help move the chains with regularity.

Understood and I agree in a sense, however... Out of the five teams with most 20+ yard runs (New York Giants, Minnesota, Carolina, Washington, Tennessee), four have clinched a playoff bid, two will have homefield advantage, and all have winning records. It does help to be able to make the big play in the run game.

Habibi
12-23-2008, 02:35 PM
Nice job. I'm not as high on Taylor Mays and Sam Bradford as you are, and you're not as high on Michael Oher and Peria Jerry as I am. Nicely done, however.