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View Full Version : Shonn Greene a first round pick?


middlelinebacker54
01-01-2009, 09:09 PM
This guy has it all. Hes EXTREMELY powerful and runs extremely low and possesses a knack for breaking at least one tackle every play. He runs harder than any runningback i have seen since Adrian Peterson. He may only run approximately a 4.5 forty but hes got more than enough speed to take it the distance. In fact, Greene reminds me of another Green, Ahman Green. Both runners run extremely hard, possess great agility, and are workhorses. However, Greene lacks Ahman Green's great speed. If Shoon Greene can accomplish anything anywhere near what Ahman Green did during his years in Green Bay then he is EASILY worth a first round pick. In conclusion, I like Shonn Green a lot and i think he projects as a late first round pick because of his wonder year wonder questions and his lack of great speed.

iowatreat54
01-01-2009, 09:15 PM
Unless he runs a 40 in the 4.4s and has great workouts, I don't think so. Also depends on if players like Beanie Wells or Moreno declare.

He is average at blocking and sub par at receiving, he really needs to work on those aspects between now and draft day.

bearsfan_51
01-01-2009, 09:18 PM
To say he has it all is hilarious. Greene might be the most one-dimensional runner in the draft. He's a 3rd rounder unless he times a lot better than I think he will.

SeanTaylorRIP
01-01-2009, 09:26 PM
He's better but not that much better of a prospect as Tony Hunt. IMO I like Tony Hunt more and think he's more well rounded. Greene though I think will make it in the NFL unlike Hunt, Greene reminds me of LeRon McClain the way he runs although he obviously can't hold a candle to McClain in terms of blocking.

Sniper
01-01-2009, 09:27 PM
He's better but not that much better of a prospect as Tony Hunt. IMO I like Tony Hunt more and think he's more well rounded. Greene though I think will make it in the NFL unlike Hunt, Greene reminds me of LeRon McClain the way he runs although he obviously can't hold a candle to McClain in terms of blocking.

Bull ************* ****. Tony Hunt is the softest big back I have ever seen. He sucks at blocking, he sucks at catching, he sucks at everything. Tony Hunt is awful and please don't insult Greene like that. Greene runs very hard and Hunt ran like a *****.

Smokey Joe
01-01-2009, 09:28 PM
I think he could potentially push his way up to late round 1. However, I think he is a lock as a 2nd round pick with, at least, solid workouts at the combine and proday.

SeanTaylorRIP
01-01-2009, 09:28 PM
Haha I expected that, but I am talking about Hunt as the prospect coming out of college. Hunt out of college was a workhorse who had adequate speed, could block, and pass catch, not sure what happened on the way to the NFL but as a prospect I really liked Hunt.

Sniper
01-01-2009, 09:30 PM
Haha I expected that, but I am talking about Hunt as the prospect coming out of college. Hunt out of college was a workhorse who had adequate speed, could block, and pass catch, not sure what happened on the way to the NFL but as a prospect I really liked Hunt.

I still can't believe the Eagles took Hunt ahead of Mike Bush. This angers me greatly.

Texas Homer
01-01-2009, 09:30 PM
I'm thinking 2nd or 3rd round. He's good though.

bearsfan_51
01-01-2009, 09:41 PM
I think he could potentially push his way up to late round 1. However, I think he is a lock as a 2nd round pick with, at least, solid workouts at the combine and proday.
He's not. Honestly I think 3rd round is generous at this point based off of his college production alone.

As iowatreat pointed out, there are serious holes in his game as a pro prospect, which is what we're discussing. Combine the fact that he's already 24 years old, was productive for one year, and could run close to a 4.6, and I just don't see a lot to get excited about him as a pro prospect.

If Greene could block, it would be a totally different story, as I think he could be useful in a Brian Leonard/Jacob Hester type role, but he's yet to display that versatility at all.

Comparing him to Adrian Peterson is just downright stupid.

keylime_5
01-01-2009, 09:46 PM
Shonn Greene is a starting RB in the NFL, he should go in the second round. Guys like that never get drafted in the 3rd unless they're coming off some horrific injury.

PMoney18
01-01-2009, 09:52 PM
The bad thing about him is that he played in the big ten. 2nd rounder at best, unless his draft stock soars between now and the draft.

bearsfan_51
01-01-2009, 09:55 PM
The bad thing about him is that he played in the big ten. 2nd rounder at best, unless his draft stock soars between now and the draft.
Right, because the Big Ten never produces good runningbacks.

******* people...

Sniper
01-01-2009, 09:59 PM
Right, because the Big Ten never produces good runningbacks.

******* people...

So you mean Chris Wells sucks too?

Smokey Joe
01-01-2009, 09:59 PM
He's not. Honestly I think 3rd round is generous at this point based off of his college production alone.

As iowatreat pointed out, there are serious holes in his game as a pro prospect, which is what we're discussing. Combine the fact that he's already 24 years old, was productive for one year, and could run close to a 4.6, and I just don't see a lot to get excited about him as a pro prospect.

If Greene could block, it would be a totally different story, as I think he could be useful in a Brian Leonard/Jacob Hester type role, but he's yet to display that versatility at all.

Comparing him to Adrian Peterson is just downright stupid.
I think some team with the lightning but missing the thunder will take him in the 2nd. I hate this line, but it's a copy cat league, and he's probably the best power back in the draft not with the nickname Beanie.

The reason that's keeping him from potentially being a first round pick is because he has those holes in his game, and he isn't a big homerun threat like "lightning" backs.

Sniper
01-01-2009, 10:00 PM
The bad thing about him is that he played in the big ten. 2nd rounder at best, unless his draft stock soars between now and the draft.

This was posted, what, seven hours after he beat up a good SEC defense?

Malaka
01-01-2009, 10:01 PM
I think it is very possible that Shonn Greene can sneak into late round 1. Chris Wells will be the first RB taken, and if he is taken early, the only two first round worthy backs are Knowshon Moreno and Shonn Greene. Although, I believe Knowshon is a better prospect than Greene, it will come down to personal preference and the teams needs, for example a team with a speed back will look for the thunder to their lighting, so Shonn would go there and not Knowshon and vice versa. Shonn Greene is a very powerful runner, and I really like him, he will be an above average starter in the NFL guaranteed IMO, definitely a possibility.

foozball
01-01-2009, 10:02 PM
2nd round. possibly to jacksonville if they get rid of fred taylor. they could have another smash and dash team...except mjd can smash and dash all by himself

middlelinebacker54
01-01-2009, 10:02 PM
guys i just compared his desire to Adrian Peterson. I never compared him as a similar player.

bearsfan_51
01-01-2009, 10:05 PM
guys i just compared his desire to Adrian Peterson. I never compared him as a similar player.
You know who else had a lot of heart? Mike Hart. Where'd he get drafted?

bearsfan_51
01-01-2009, 10:06 PM
I think it is very possible that Shonn Greene can sneak into late round 1. Chris Wells will be the first RB taken, and if he is taken early, the only two first round worthy backs are Knowshon Moreno and Shonn Greene. Although, I believe Knowshon is a better prospect than Greene, it will come down to personal preference and the teams needs, for example a team with a speed back will look for the thunder to their lighting, so Shonn would go there and not Knowshon and vice versa. Shonn Greene is a very powerful runner, and I really like him, he will be an above average starter in the NFL guaranteed IMO, definitely a possibility.
Any GM that would take Greene over Knowshon Moreno should be fired on the spot. And by fired, I mean shot in the face with a gun.

steelernation77
01-01-2009, 10:07 PM
Some of these comparisons are laughable. Tony Hunt? Le'Ron McClain?

Greene was one of the fastest players on the Hawkeyes before his transfer to a juco. He returned kicks. He still has good speed, I'm guessing in the low to mid 4.5s. Regardless, he has great vision, power and underrated cutting ability. He has the potential to be a starting RB in the NFL. I think he's more like Marion Barber than any of the previously mentioned players.

captainjack27
01-01-2009, 10:09 PM
The bad thing about him is that he played in the big ten. 2nd rounder at best, unless his draft stock soars between now and the draft.

That's a completely ridiculous argument. So Beanie Wells is awful because he played in the big ten?

That being said, Greene would be lucky to get drafted in the 2nd round IMO

JaxJag_1
01-01-2009, 10:11 PM
Shonn Greene = Michael Turner

Sniper
01-01-2009, 10:11 PM
You know who else had a lot of heart? Mike Hart. Where'd he get drafted?

Mike Hart was also small, slow, always banged up and had a lot of mileage.



But by God, Mike Hart was the ******* man.

Malaka
01-01-2009, 10:11 PM
Any GM that would take Greene over Knowshon Moreno should be fired on the spot. And by fired, I mean shot in the face with a gun.

I do believe Knowshon is a much better prospect than Shonn Greene, but I am quite high on Shonn Greene, I do think he can be a late first early second, he may not be an extremely versatile back, but I am not buying how one dimensional you say he is, he may be a power back, but he also runs with great vision, if he times well I think he can most definitely be an early 2nd, with the slight chance of being a late first depending on how things in the draft play out, if he can work a bit on his hands and blocking you can have a great starter on a hard-nosed run game offense, like the Giants or Titans.

captainjack27
01-01-2009, 10:12 PM
Shonn Greene = Michael Turner

Good joke.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-02-2009, 12:11 AM
I think he'll be solid but he won't be a high pick. You just can't invest a 1st round pick in a guy(especially RB) who will be like 30 when his rookie contract expires unless he is completely can't miss. That, and his running style lead me to believe he won't be good for very long. Late 2nd-3rd rounder IMO. Will be a good player though.

Halsey
01-02-2009, 12:28 AM
He really does remind me a little of Micheal Turner when I see him. Then again I liked Rashard Mendenhall and he looked pretty average for Pittsburgh before getting hurt. I think an NFL team should wait till at least the early 2nd before drafting Greene. RB's get hurt too much and Greene might not look all that special in the NFL.

foozball
01-02-2009, 01:06 AM
shonn greene is an everydown powerback...if he learns how to catch and block that is...

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 09:08 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Greene drop a bit...

Best-case scenario he is a second round pick but between his age, one-year wonder status, off-the-field stuff and questionable speed I could very easily see him drop to round four as well.

wonderbredd24
01-02-2009, 09:39 AM
I think Shonn Greene would be at his most effective in a 2 back system.

What I like about Greene is that about half his yards came after contact. He's not all that fast, but he gets to his mediocre max speed pretty quickly.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 10:37 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Greene drop a bit...

Best-case scenario he is a second round pick but between his age, one-year wonder status, off-the-field stuff and questionable speed I could very easily see him drop to round four as well.

Do scouts really look at him not liking school as something bad? I mean it is bad, but if you look at all the work he has put in outside of the classroom to train, work on making it back onto the football team, catching up over the spring/summer, etc. I would think his academic issues wouldn't really matter. I mean, it's not like he goes out partying or skips stuff, he is just really bad at school.

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 11:23 AM
Intelligence is an issue, albeit not as big of one for a running back as other positions.

The NFL is a lot more than just strapping the pads on. You have to be smart enough to learn an NFL playbook, understand blocking schemes, etc. Also, if a guy didn't handle school well how will he do in tedious film review sessions or when they are installing an offense in training camp.

It's definitely an issue.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 11:36 AM
Intelligence is an issue, albeit not as big of one for a running back as other positions.

The NFL is a lot more than just strapping the pads on. You have to be smart enough to learn an NFL playbook, understand blocking schemes, etc. Also, if a guy didn't handle school well how will he do in tedious film review sessions or when they are installing an offense in training camp.

It's definitely an issue.

I agree it is an issue, but he has handled the football side of everything more than satisfactory. Obviously the NFL is more work, more complicated, etc. but he has proven he can handle putting in the work for football, i.e. studying the playbook, showing up to training, participating in team functions, etc. He hasn't missed any practices, film sessions, workouts, to the knowledge of the general public. His intelligence in the classroom is lacking, yes, but he has proven in the last 5 years that he is more than adequate in understanding football and putting in the work to do so. Hopefully that translates to the NFL, but to me, his academic problems are completely independent from his work and knowledge of football.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2009, 11:38 AM
I agree it is an issue, but he has handled the football side of everything more than satisfactory. Obviously the NFL is more work, more complicated, etc. but he has proven he can handle putting in the work for football, i.e. studying the playbook, showing up to training, participating in team functions, etc. He hasn't missed any practices, film sessions, workouts, to the knowledge of the general public. His intelligence in the classroom is lacking, yes, but he has proven in the last 5 years that he is more than adequate in understanding football and putting in the work to do so. Hopefully that translates to the NFL, but to me, his academic problems are completely independent from his work and knowledge of football.
I question the football intelligence of any player that is a poor blocker. See: Cedric Benson.

Smokey Joe
01-02-2009, 11:40 AM
I question the football intelligence of any player that is a poor blocker. See: Cedric Benson.
Adrian Peterson (Chicago Bears) is pretty dumb... and he doesn't know how to block either. Maybe you're on to something.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 11:47 AM
I question the football intelligence of any player that is a poor blocker. See: Cedric Benson.

I agree. I was just pointing out that his academic problems are more than likely independent from his football intelligence. I think the reason he cannot block is that he's never focused on that aspect of his game, like pass catching. That does show a lack of football intelligence, which is why I think he should come back. However, he has shown/seems to understand plays, read defense, etc. it's just a lack of his ability at the moment. But I don't think his academic problems should be used as a reason to hurt his stock.

wonderbredd24
01-02-2009, 11:47 AM
Is his age (24) really a factor since he doesn't have much wear on the tires?

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 11:50 AM
Is his age (24) really a factor since he doesn't have much wear on the tires?

He doesn't have as many miles on his tires as some but regardless when you hit that 30-year-old mark the speed and athleticism start to go quick.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 11:51 AM
Is his age (24) really a factor since he doesn't have much wear on the tires?

A lot of people seem to think so. I've read a couple scouts/coaches have made off hand remarks about how since he has hardly any wear, it really isn't that big of a deal, and I pretty much agree. Plus, it's not like he is Chris Weinke, he is the age of a Redshirt Senior, so it's not as bad as it seems.

PMoney18
01-02-2009, 11:52 AM
I agree. I was just pointing out that his academic problems are more than likely independent from his football intelligence. I think the reason he cannot block is that he's never focused on that aspect of his game, like pass catching. That does show a lack of football intelligence, which is why I think he should come back. However, he has shown/seems to understand plays, read defense, etc. it's just a lack of his ability at the moment. But I don't think his academic problems should be used as a reason to hurt his stock.

I agree that his academics should not hurt him. He has all the physical tools you could want for a pro. He should've stayed another year to improve blocking and catching though.

wonderbredd24
01-02-2009, 11:53 AM
He doesn't have as many miles on his tires as some but regardless when you hit that 30-year-old mark the speed and athleticism start to go quick.

Are teams really thinking that long term when it comes to running backs after the first day?

I mean if the average lifespan is about 3-4 years, are they really worried about them making it to 30, let alone beyond

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 11:56 AM
He has all the physical tools you could want for a pro.

Except speed... He is going to be, at best, a high 4.5 guy in the forty.

None of these factors (age, intelligence, speed) are a killer in and of themselves but they do start to add up. I still think Greene will be one of the Top 5 running backs in this draft but for me he is a fringe Day One type and not a lock to be the third running back chosen (behind Wells and Moreno?) that some feel he is.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 12:02 PM
I don't feel he is a 2nd round lock, but more than likely has a 2nd round ceiling. I can't wait to see his 40 time though, because while I expect him to run low 4.5s, he was rumored to be at least 2nd fastest player on Iowa before leaving school. Yes, he did put on 20ish lbs, but I still think he will surprise in the 40.

EDIT: I change my statement. He ran a 4.48 coming in to college. If he runs a low 4.5 I will be really happy. But I still think he is much faster than most "power" backs in the nfl now.

Matthew Jones
01-02-2009, 12:19 PM
Greene reminds me of LenDale White in that both are very physical runners. LenDale is 6'1", 235 with some character issues coming into the draft, but a very good runner in college. I think Greene is a little faster and in better shape, and he doesn't have quite the same issues White does. This guy can't seem to win with anyone because if he gets 300 carries and 1800 yards in back to back seasons, he's overworked, and if he just outruns everyone like he did this year, he's "underproductive." His stock is about where White's was when he was in the draft (late first to second round) in my eyes.

regoob2
01-02-2009, 12:19 PM
Do scouts really look at him not liking school as something bad? I mean it is bad, but if you look at all the work he has put in outside of the classroom to train, work on making it back onto the football team, catching up over the spring/summer, etc. I would think his academic issues wouldn't really matter. I mean, it's not like he goes out partying or skips stuff, he is just really bad at school.Is he not going to like learning a new play book which will be ten times the size.

D-Unit
01-02-2009, 12:21 PM
Shonne Green's running reminds me of a Marion Barber/Ray Rice mixture. I think people will overrate his weaknesses, but who ever drafts him will be VERY happy. He rarely goes down on first contact, has a nice center of gravity, plays low to the ground, has great balance, vision, power, break away ability, a mean stiff arm, a strong base and will get to the league with relatively fresh legs.

Moreno has much more upside, but Greene won't disappoint. In a draft like last year, I could see Greene as a 3rd or th rounder, but this year, I think 2nd and no later than the mid 3rd for him. This is a weak draft imo.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 01:09 PM
Is he not going to like learning a new play book which will be ten times the size.

Again, I think to him football is football and school is school. He was uninterested and just not good at some subjects in school, which is why he had trouble, not because he was ditching class or partying too much. He has always shown that he is capable of learning football. Just my opinion, but I think his academic problems don't translate to inability to learn football related things.

regoob2
01-02-2009, 01:14 PM
Again, I think to him football is football and school is school. He was uninterested and just not good at some subjects in school, which is why he had trouble, not because he was ditching class or partying too much. He has always shown that he is capable of learning football. Just my opinion, but I think his academic problems don't translate to inability to learn football related things.
I understand what your saying but there's still that chance. I assume he doesnt like school becuase he struggles there. If he begins to struggle in the pros the same could happen. Not saying it will but it could.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2009, 01:15 PM
EDIT: I change my statement. He ran a 4.48 coming in to college. If he runs a low 4.5 I will be really happy. But I still think he is much faster than most "power" backs in the nfl now.
If he gets anything close to that I'll change my statement. I still think he's one-dimensional regardless, and thus not worthy of a 1st round grade under any circumstance, but if he can run a 4.5 flat he'll easily put himself into the 2nd round.

I expect something closer to 4.6 like Scott said however.

wonderbredd24
01-02-2009, 01:17 PM
For his sake, I would hope moving furniture for a year and supporting his grandmother would be enough to get him to learn whatever he needed to in order to succeed in the NFL

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 02:05 PM
For his sake, I would hope moving furniture for a year and supporting his grandmother would be enough to get him to learn whatever he needed to in order to succeed in the NFL

I think he has developed a tremendous work ethic when he needs one. I don't think he will be taking anything at the next level for granted.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 02:43 PM
Intelligence is an issue, albeit not as big of one for a running back as other positions.

The NFL is a lot more than just strapping the pads on. You have to be smart enough to learn an NFL playbook, understand blocking schemes, etc. Also, if a guy didn't handle school well how will he do in tedious film review sessions or when they are installing an offense in training camp.

It's definitely an issue.

Did you really just post this Scott? Name one running back with a wonderlic over 20 not named Jacob Hester?

Intelligence wasn't an issue with Edgerrin James, Clinton Portis, Adrian Peterson, Steven Jackson, LaDainian Tomlinson, or Willie Parker? Why single out Shonn Greene? He did fine picking up the Iowa offense, and he was off the team for an entire year.

Have you even heard him interivewed Scott?

Do you question his work ethic as well? He worked as a furniture mover for an entire year and worked out by himself at the Gold's gym because he wasn't allowed on the training premises by coaches, and then he came back and won the Doak Walker. Don't downplay him or his accomplishments Scott.

How about his size? 5'11 235, do you think he'll actually play at that in the pro's? He's going to lose a few for the combine, and with that he'll very likely get faster.

Where are you coming off saying he has 'questionable speed' anyways. It is fact, two years ago he was the 2nd fastest player on the team behind Charles Godfrey, who ran a 4.44 at the combine last year, he has more than enough speed to be an NFL back, and if you have to rely solely on your speed in the NFL your career isn't going to last long.

For a guy with no speed he sure did bust off a lot of 30 yard+ runs.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 02:45 PM
Why does Moreno have so much more upside?

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 02:48 PM
Instead of having to change your statements Bearsfan, maybe you should make solid ones in the first place :)

Shonn Will run no worse than a 4.53 at the combine, 24+ reps, 4.3 or lower shuttle.

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 02:51 PM
Did you really just post this Scott? Name one running back with a wonderlic over 20 not named Jacob Hester?

Intelligence wasn't an issue with Edgerrin James, Clinton Portis, Adrian Peterson, Steven Jackson, LaDainian Tomlinson, or Willie Parker? Why single out Shonn Greene? He did fine picking up the Iowa offense, and he was off the team for an entire year.

Have you even heard him interivewed Scott?

Do you question his work ethic as well? He worked as a furniture mover for an entire year and worked out by himself at the Gold's gym because he wasn't allowed on the training premises by coaches, and then he came back and won the Doak Walker. Don't downplay him or his accomplishments Scott.

How about his size? 5'11 235, do you think he'll actually play at that in the pro's? He's going to lose a few for the combine, and with that he'll very likely get faster.

Where are you coming off saying he has 'questionable speed' anyways. It is fact, two years ago he was the 2nd fastest player on the team behind Charles Godfrey, who ran a 4.44 at the combine last year, he has more than enough speed to be an NFL back, and if you have to rely solely on your speed in the NFL your career isn't going to last long.

For a guy with no speed he sure did bust off a lot of 30 yard+ runs.

First of all look at the very first thing I said:

Intelligence is an issue, albeit not as big of one for a running back as other positions.

And please don't put words in my mouth, I have never once brought up his work ethic as either a positive or a negative.

I think Greene is a heck of a player (I featured him in my blog all the way back on October 23!) and and have highlighted his impressive accomplishments. He deserved to win the Doak Walker Award but like all prospects he has question marks.

As for his speed, he is not going to run a 4.4 so let's put that to rest right now.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 02:56 PM
Elaborate on 'off the field issues' then.

Moreno and Wells won't break 4.4 either.

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 02:59 PM
Elaborate on 'off the field issues' then.

Moreno and Wells won't break 4.4 either.

I never said Wells or Moreno WOULD break 4.4 :)

The off-the-field issue I am referring to with Greene is flunking out of school.

Hines
01-02-2009, 03:00 PM
Scout compared Greene to Rashard Mendenhall and I hated the comparison. Mendenhall is faster, a better blocker, and a better reciever.

I think Greene is a fringe 2nd-high 3rd rounder this year depending on what he runs.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 03:03 PM
Scout compared Greene to Rashard Mendenhall and I hated the comparison. Mendenhall is faster, a better blocker, and a better reciever.

I think Greene is a fringe 2nd-high 3rd rounder this year depending on what he runs.

Agreed. I think people get caught up in comparing players and comparing running styles. I could see him somewhat being compared in running style, but that's a little bit of a stretch, but maybe that's what they meant? Because Mendenhall was better in nearly every facet except maybe breaking tackles and pure strength.

JaxJag_1
01-02-2009, 03:03 PM
Shonn Greene is not the brightest bulb but neither is Chris Johnson

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 03:05 PM
Shonn Greene is not the brightest bulb buth neither is Chris Johnson

and from watching interview, neither is Beast Mode. I think Greene's running style is really comparable to Lynch's. Not as good right now, but the style I think is the same.

Hines
01-02-2009, 03:05 PM
Agreed. I think people get caught up in comparing players and comparing running styles. I could see him somewhat being compared in running style, but that's a little bit of a stretch, but maybe that's what they meant? Because Mendenhall was better in nearly every facet except maybe breaking tackles and pure strength.

The only thing I see them that have similarities is size, strength, and how they can punish tacklers in the open field. Other then that, Mendenhall is much more superior then Greene.

But I am being a homer so I have a biased opinion.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:05 PM
When LeSean McCoy comes out will you consider his year missed due to not cutting in High School and having to go to Prep school for a year?

Greene isn't a beacon of intellect, obviously, but what professional RB really is?

Greene, Moreno and Wells will all have very similar times, no bigger than a .05 difference between the three.

I think he'll go in the 2nd round to the Browns.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:08 PM
Greene isn't going to run his mouth like Mendenhall has, and always did, either. Look where it got Rashard.

That isn't considered? Professionalism, and maturity?

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 03:08 PM
When LeSean McCoy comes out will you consider his year missed due to not cutting in High School and having to go to Prep school for a year?

Absolutely, that will be a small part of the equation.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:10 PM
You know who is really, really bright, Lendale White. Give me a break.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 03:11 PM
LenWhale also isn't an every down back. I think with the recent success of thunder and lightning combos, someone will be very willing to take Greene in the 2nd. I doubt he goes to the Browns, though.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:11 PM
What about RB's that redshirt, like Moreno. Maybe they couldn't pick up the offense quick enough, or had a hard time adjusting in school initially? Will all of them have an asterisk as well?

regoob2
01-02-2009, 03:12 PM
What about RB's that redshirt, like Moreno. Maybe they couldn't pick up the offense quick enough, or had a hard time adjusting in school initially? Will all of them have an asterisk as well?
What point are you trying to prove here?

Hines
01-02-2009, 03:12 PM
What about RB's that redshirt, like Moreno. Maybe they couldn't pick up the offense quick enough, or had a hard time adjusting in school initially? Will all of them have an asterisk as well?

Or they had players in front of them.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:13 PM
Greene is the perfect Browns back to replace Jamal Lewis.

I see the Browns going 1st round Aaron Curry, 2nd round Shonn Greene.

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 03:13 PM
You know who is really, really bright, Lendale White. Give me a break.

You act like I am saying his grades are going to drop him out of the draft. It's just one small part of the equation with Greene and he may not drop one single spot in the draft because of it.

All I said is that when you factor in his grades, lack of speed, age and one-year wonder status I wouldn't be surprised if he fell to round three or four.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:14 PM
Why should time off the field, and, yes, redshirting is considered time off the field, be some type of debilitating issue, especially when the production came after the fact?

Do you really think Shonn Greene would be a one-year wonder with the type of offense Iowa runs, always has run and the returning OL?

regoob2
01-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Why should time off the field, and, yes, redshirting is considered time off the field, be some type of debilitating issue, especially when the production came after the fact?

Do you really think Shonn Greene would be a one-year wonder with the type of offense Iowa runs, always has run and the returning OL?Do you know what they say about assumptions?

Hines
01-02-2009, 03:18 PM
Here is the article about Scout comparing Greene to Mendenhall.

http://profootball.scout.com/2/813646.html

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:21 PM
This lack of speed statement? It's not warranted, where is it coming from.

It is DOCUMENTED he was the 2nd fastest player on the team two years ago, at 220.

What about wear and tear? He has the chronological age of a 2nd year pro, but the football age of a true junior. The chronological age matters that much more?

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:22 PM
Why ASSUME he can't pick up an NFL offense then and will run no better than a 4.6?

Mr. Stiller
01-02-2009, 03:27 PM
He's better but not that much better of a prospect as Tony Hunt. IMO I like Tony Hunt more and think he's more well rounded. Greene though I think will make it in the NFL unlike Hunt, Greene reminds me of LeRon McClain the way he runs although he obviously can't hold a candle to McClain in terms of blocking.

No no no. I can't see the Green/Hunt comparison. Hunt was considered a "Powerback" But, I can't see Greene being that slow or soft. Hunt just wasn't a run you over type "Powerback".


From my POV... there's really 2 types of power backs. The guys that just run you down... Greg Jones/Shonn Greene guys...

And Bouncers. Guys that don't really run you over, they more or less bounce off you... MJD/Tony Hunt.

But MJD has speed, hands and actually bounces.

If Beanie Wells stays, I can seriously see Greene sneak into the first round. He'll be behind Moreno in my estimation.

I think both will be better in a stable situation (Compliment back.)

Scott Wright
01-02-2009, 03:28 PM
Man, you must be related to Shonn... Either that or he should put you on the payroll for the way you're defending him.

As far as the "documented" speed goes, that means nothing. The school, which has an interest in pumping up their players, can say whatever they want but the proof will be in the pudding when he runs at the Combine or at his Pro Day. We just had a long discussion about this in a USC thread and talked about why you can't go by forty times that the school publicizes.

Also, chronological age does matter. Is it a good thing that he hasn't carried the ball 900 times the past few years? Sure. Father time catches up with everyone though and regardless of how many miles a player has on his tires he will eventually begin to lose his speed, athleticism, etc.

Mr. Stiller
01-02-2009, 03:29 PM
Here is the article about Scout comparing Greene to Mendenhall.

http://profootball.scout.com/2/813646.html

another Terrible comparison.

Greene is all about power. Mendenhall has some power, but he's more elusive and explosive in and out of his cuts.

Mendenhall is a more likley candidate to juke out a LB but run over a DB.

Greene just runs everyone over.

JaxJag_1
01-02-2009, 03:34 PM
Stiller, MoJo does bounce off of people yes he does that very often, but he does run right through people, ask Kalvin Pearson on Detroit, Pearson got ran through by Maurice 3 times in that game and ask Mike Brown in Chicago the same thing.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:35 PM
Man, you must be related to Shonn... Either that or he should put you on the payroll for the way you're defending him.

As far as the "documented" speed goes, that means nothing. The school, which has an interest in pumping up their players, can say whatever they want but the proof will be in the pudding when he runs at the Combine or at his Pro Day. We just had a long discussion about this in a USC thread and talked about why you can't go by forty times that the school publicizes.

Also, chronological age does matter. Is it a good thing that he hasn't carried the ball 900 times the past few years? Sure. Father time catches up with everyone though and regardless of how many miles a player has on his tires he will eventually begin to lose his speed, athleticism, etc.

I just want explanations.

Has Iowa been known to inflate times? It was spring testing, for all the players.

It does matter, but is a running back going to lose more speed and athleticism from a slight increase in age or wear and tear from a consistent and grueling mental and physical pounding?

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:36 PM
Good comparison for Greene is Mike Anderson.

Mr. Stiller
01-02-2009, 03:38 PM
Greene isn't going to run his mouth like Mendenhall has, and always did, either. Look where it got Rashard.

That isn't considered? Professionalism, and maturity?

?

When did Mendenhall run his mouth?

And 2. Running his mouth got him in.. round 1? Seems like your defeating your own argument.

Mr. Stiller
01-02-2009, 03:38 PM
Stiller, MoJo does bounce off of people yes he does that very often, but he does run right through people, ask Kalvin Pearson on Detroit, Pearson got ran through by Maurice 3 times in that game and ask Mike Brown in Chicago the same thing.

I don't doubt that.. Guys with that label still run "over" opposing players, but they're more apt to do one or the other.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:41 PM
To the Ravens this year, about his own head coach last year.

regoob2
01-02-2009, 03:42 PM
To the Ravens this year, about his own head coach last year.
That was after he was drafted.

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:45 PM
Still, he threw his own coach under the bus, and claimed he didn't play his older brother enough.

Called out the Ravens as a rookie, ended up with a mark on his back, and consequently, a separated shoulder.

Menardo75
01-02-2009, 03:47 PM
It really depends on who comes out. It sounds like Tressel is trying to convince Beanie to come out. I don't think Moreno will, so at that point depending on how he times. I think he is a lock second round pick, but could possibly go in the late first. It really will depend on his combine though.

regoob2
01-02-2009, 03:48 PM
Still, he threw his own coach under the bus, and claimed he didn't play his older brother enough.

Called out the Ravens as a rookie, ended up with a mark on his back, and consequently, a separated shoulder.
What does Mendenhall doing this after he was drafted have anything to do with Greene or do you just like to argue?

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 03:55 PM
Those aren't exactly reputable acts.

JaxJag_1
01-02-2009, 03:55 PM
Here's a question, do you prefer Rashad Jennings or Shonn Greene? Both are going to be 24 year old rookie RB's

ToldLikeItIs
01-02-2009, 04:02 PM
I honestly know nothing about Rashard Jennings.

Mr. Stiller
01-02-2009, 04:06 PM
Still, he threw his own coach under the bus, and claimed he didn't play his older brother enough.

Called out the Ravens as a rookie, ended up with a mark on his back, and consequently, a separated shoulder.

No he called out his former coach because there was an agreement.

Walter would get a scholarship to play RB for Illinois if Rashard got one. As soon as Rashard declared Illinois dropped his brothers scholarship. If that happened to my brother after we made an agreement, I'd be flipping as well.

And the Ravens thing was already called a hoax.

Thanks for playing.

That said, If Pioli & Ferentz go to Cleveland.. I can see him in Cleveland.

Mr. Stiller
01-02-2009, 04:08 PM
It really depends on who comes out. It sounds like Tressel is trying to convince Beanie to come out. I don't think Moreno will, so at that point depending on how he times. I think he is a lock second round pick, but could possibly go in the late first. It really will depend on his combine though.

I was talking to my friend who works down in Georgia athletics (He was basically the Truancy officer... making sure the players went to class and was an advisor as a graduate student)...

said Stafford and Moreno already told the staff they're gone.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 04:13 PM
No he called out his former coach because there was an agreement.

Walter would get a scholarship to play RB for Illinois if Rashard got one. As soon as Rashard declared Illinois dropped his brothers scholarship. If that happened to my brother after we made an agreement, I'd be flipping as well.

And the Ravens thing was already called a hoax.

Thanks for playing.

That said, If Pioli & Ferentz go to Cleveland.. I can see him in Cleveland.

Further proof Zook is the class of coaching.

I highly doubt Ferentz goes to Cleveland, mainly because his son just redshirted as a freshman at Iowa, and he has a younger son who still is a sophomore at Iowa City High.

regoob2
01-02-2009, 04:13 PM
Those aren't exactly reputable acts.Ok. What does that have to do with Greene? Do you think GMs knew he was going to do that after he was drafted and that's why he fell a bit??

regoob2
01-02-2009, 04:15 PM
Here's a question, do you prefer Rashad Jennings or Shonn Greene? Both are going to be 24 year old rookie RB's
Greene. I think Jennings is more like Mendenhall in the sense that he's a big back but doesnt prefer to run through guys.

Menardo75
01-02-2009, 04:22 PM
I was talking to my friend who works down in Georgia athletics (He was basically the Truancy officer... making sure the players went to class and was an advisor as a graduate student)...

said Stafford and Moreno already told the staff they're gone.

Oh really interesting. Wonder why Moreno would leave this early.

iowatreat54
01-02-2009, 04:24 PM
Oh really interesting. Wonder why Moreno would leave this early.

Because if Beanie stays, he would easily be the first back taken. Even if Beanie comes out, he could be the first back taken.

bearsfan_51
01-02-2009, 04:28 PM
Oh really interesting. Wonder why Moreno would leave this early.
Because in the NFL they pay you to get your kneecaps blown out.

If Chris Wells doesn't declare he's a fool. Any runningback that has a 1st round grade should immediately declare.

regoob2
01-02-2009, 04:53 PM
Because in the NFL they pay you to get your kneecaps blown out.

If Chris Wells doesn't declare he's a fool. Any runningback that has a 1st round grade should immediately declare.
You could make a case for day 1.

Staubach12
01-07-2009, 11:46 PM
I'm not sure if this comparison has been made, but does Shonn Greene remind anyone else of Rashard Mendenhall?

Paranoidmoonduck
01-08-2009, 12:00 AM
Mendenhall was more shifty and had more of a second gear for the Illini than Greene has.

hagy34
01-08-2009, 12:07 AM
I'd say he has a shot at late 1st if McCoy doesn't declare. I see three backs going in the first. Wells, Moreno and either McCoy or Greene.

Larry121283
01-08-2009, 08:31 AM
Beanie Wells will be a top pick...wouldn't shock me if he went to the Bengals early...if he declared (he'd be a fool not to).

Knowshon Moreno would come in that mid-first round range. Honestly. Tough to judge where he'd go without me looking at the draft order.

Shonn Greene would come off the board in the early 2nd round somewhere.

Javon Ringer (barring any other declarees) would be next off the board in that late-late round 2 area, early round 3.

Donald Brown and CJ Spiller are wild cards. Not sure how I'd grade out Donald Brown and Spiller could "shoot up" boards because of the success of Chris Johnson. The NFL is a copycat league and Spiller could be a beneficiary of it. While I don't think Spiller is a first round guy...some teams may see that athleticism and upside and jump on before anyone else has a chance.

edbob21
01-08-2009, 09:39 PM
Shonn Greene is NOT a slow running back. If any of you saying he will run a 4.6 can name one time he was caught in the open field this season... go right ahead, I'm waiting. He has underrated speed because he runs TO contact, not AROUND it. He is more than capable of carrying the load in an NFL offense, though he probably will wind up in a platoon system.

bearsfan_51
01-08-2009, 09:45 PM
Shonn Greene is NOT a slow running back. If any of you saying he will run a 4.6 can name one time he was caught in the open field this season... go right ahead, I'm waiting. He has underrated speed because he runs TO contact, not AROUND it. He is more than capable of carrying the load in an NFL offense, though he probably will wind up in a platoon system.
Yes, I actually remember each individual play that Greene has. I'm sure that in his career he was never caught from behind. What a ridiculous statement. Not that that has absolutely anything to do with what he will actually run at the combine anyway.

Regardless, I'll take the opinion of the owner of the site, as well as mine, over an Iowa homer any day. 4 posts on the site and 3 of them are about how Greene isn't slow. Good job dude.

Greene is at best Anthony Thomas. Someone that probably could carry the load in the NFL, but not someone you'd ever want to. This isn't the Big Ten anymore.

ToldLikeItIs
01-09-2009, 07:57 AM
I remember one play in particular where James Smith, a 4.32 guy, from Iowa State, caught him from behind.

This was also his third game back after a full year off, and he only continued to get faster and stronger over the year.

Minnesota's D was burnt on three occassions by him, here is the run against Wisconsin and a long Purdue TD. Enjoy :)

46 seconds in, 76 yard Purdue Td..not caught from behind

1 minute in, Iowa State run..caught from behind by 2005 national 100 meter champion James Smith.

2:35, Wisconsin TD..not caught from behind..shows speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9UVHTamf6w

Link it or weep baby.

Sniper
01-09-2009, 08:05 AM
2:35, Wisconsin TD..not caught from behind..shows speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9UVHTamf6w

Link it or weep baby.

Wisconsin's defense barely caught Steven Threet. I'd hope they wouldn't catch an All-American RB. :D

ToldLikeItIs
01-09-2009, 08:09 AM
Bearsfan claimed he was always caught from behind, and he was, once, by a former 10.2 High School track champion.

I seem to recall Wisconsin's slow D, and defender Jack Ikegwuouno catching Darren McFadden from behind a few years back.

Sniper
01-09-2009, 08:12 AM
Bearsfan claimed he was always caught from behind, and he was, once, by a former 10.2 High School track champion.

I seem to recall Wisconsin's slow D, and defender Jack Ikegwuouno catching Darren McFadden from behind a few years back.

Jack Ikegwuonu didn't play on the '08 Wisconsin defense.

Rockability24
01-09-2009, 08:17 AM
Yes, I actually remember each individual play that Greene has. I'm sure that in his career he was never caught from behind. What a ridiculous statement. Not that that has absolutely anything to do with what he will actually run at the combine anyway.

Regardless, I'll take the opinion of the owner of the site, as well as mine, over an Iowa homer any day. 4 posts on the site and 3 of them are about how Greene isn't slow. Good job dude.

Greene is at best Anthony Thomas. Someone that probably could carry the load in the NFL, but not someone you'd ever want to. This isn't the Big Ten anymore.


What is your problem with Shonn Greene and Iowa in general for that matter. I sware every post I read of yours has something to do with how were overrated and Shonn Greene is so average. It doesnt take a homer to see that Shonn is definately fast enough to be an nfl rb and isn't that much slower at ALL than rashard mendenhall. im a steelers fan, i should know. If he didnt want to hit people than he would have a lot more big gains and breakaway runs. Your post is so comical w/ the anthony thomas reference, Shonn will be an nfl starter and he is more than capable of rushing for 1,000+ yds. If you want to compare shonn's style, graded by speed and strength alone, than you're looking at Marion Barber. Not saying hes anywhere near as good, maybe someday he will be, but he runs alot like him.

ToldLikeItIs
01-09-2009, 08:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFuu4COLhhs&feature=related

It could also be argued that he was caught from behind at 2:40, after blowing up his own team-mate for getting in his way.

ToldLikeItIs
01-09-2009, 08:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Tvu9Cx9PQ

Knowshon Moreno highlight tape. Explain to me why he is a better RB after watching this. Does he look faster? No. Better at breaking tackles? No. Quicker through the hole? No. A better WR? Yes. A better high jumper? Probably.

Is high jumping a new top RB requirement after Reggie Bush has had such an amazing career between the tackles?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKZP6d-WP7E&feature=related

Compare the two tapes. The 2nd is a more comprehensive Shonn Greene highlight reel.

bearsfan_51
01-09-2009, 10:04 AM
I think Iowa fans are over the top ridiculous. Maybe's the fact that you're surrounded by corn and have nothing else to do, I find the same thing with Nebraska fans, but at least they used to be an elite program. That said, I have about 24k posts, and the vast majority of them have nothing to do with Iowa.

In the case of Greene, however, it has nothing to do with being from Iowa. I hate slow players in the NFL draft, and Greene is very slow. He looked great against the Big Ten this year, but the Big Ten was also ******* awful this year (throw South Carolina in there as well). I'm also not a fan of stupid players, but as has been mentioned this isn't that important at runningback. He is both slow and not a complete player, it's not a good combination.

You think he'll be a starting NFL runnningback, I think he'll be out of the league in 3-4 years. We'll see who is right.

princefielder28
01-09-2009, 10:06 AM
Jack Ikegwuonu didn't play on the '08 Wisconsin defense.

That was the 2007 Capital One Bowl...Badgers won :)

princefielder28
01-09-2009, 10:08 AM
I'm not sure if this comparison has been made, but does Shonn Greene remind anyone else of Rashard Mendenhall?

Not at all...Mendenhall has more speed and is more shifty than Greene. Greene is strictly a North-South runner.

ToldLikeItIs
01-09-2009, 10:13 AM
I think Iowa fans are over the top ridiculous. Maybe's the fact that you're surrounded by corn and have nothing else to do, I find the same thing with Nebraska fans, but at least they used to be an elite program. That said, I have about 24k posts, and the vast majority of them have nothing to do with Iowa.

In the case of Greene, however, it has nothing to do with being from Iowa. I hate slow players in the NFL draft, and Greene is very slow. He looked great against the Big Ten this year, but the Big Ten was also ******* awful this year (throw South Carolina in there as well). I'm also not a fan of stupid players, but as has been mentioned this isn't that important at runningback. He is both slow and not a complete player, it's not a good combination.

You think he'll be a starting NFL runnningback, I think he'll be out of the league in 3-4 years. We'll see who is right.

Being caught from behind by a trackstar in his 3rd game back after an entire YEAR away from the game is slow?

You have a horrible bias against Iowa, and you should, you're a Gopher fan.

You claim he's been caught from behind numerous times, I just showed you a highlight film, where he has been caught from behind one time, and one time only, but he's still slow? Back your argument up, please, mr 24k.

Then you're not a big fan of 80% of the RB's, and CB's in the NFL currently.

ToldLikeItIs
01-09-2009, 10:14 AM
The Badgers D wasn't exactly different this year, they returned 17 starters in 08' :)

bearsfan_51
01-09-2009, 10:24 AM
How about we just wait until he runs. As much as I enjoy this argument, youtube tapes really aren't a very good source for actual game tape, believe it or not.

And I've been a Gopher fan for less than 2 years, since I got into their PhD program. I've disliked Iowa fans much longer than that. Before you there were other annoying Iowa homers. It's like some of you have never seen the real world before.

D-Unit
01-09-2009, 10:29 AM
Not at all...Mendenhall has more speed and is more shifty than Greene. Greene is strictly a North-South runner.
Well maybe, but he's got great cut back ability and shiftiness... so it's not like he's a Jamal Lewis type N-S runner.

ToldLikeItIs
01-09-2009, 10:34 AM
How many sub 4.5 (combine numbers) successful starting RB's are there in the pros Bearsfan?

Adrian Peterson..

The fact you predicate his entire future as a RB based on a forty time is very questionable.

Is it the lengthy Hayden Fry coaching tree, or the superior player development under Ferentz?