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View Full Version : Making A Case For Everyone at #6


MooshooGawd
01-11-2009, 12:54 PM
Making a case for everyone....

Obviously when you go 4-11-1 you have a lot of holes to fill. Luckily for us, whoever we draft at #6 should be able to step in and help right away. Now lots of mock drafts have us taking a number of different people. With this post, I just wanted to make a case for everyone. I'm going to try and not be bias towards who I think they should select.

Andre Smith - OT - Alabama - There would be no question that we could definitely use his services. With Levi Jones' injuries, I doubt he'll ever be 100% again. The guy needs animal fat injected into his knees just to walk! With that said, protecting Carson is priority number 1. The guy has been knocked around these last few years and it all caught up with us last season. If Jones does come back healthy, you can move Smith to LG or RT. You can never have too many good lineman.

Eugene Monroe/Jason Smith/Michael Oher - OT - Like I said with Davis, you have got to protect Carson. Levi isn't healthy, and while he did settle down and perform okay when he was in there last year, you can tell that he's just not the same guy anymore. Anthony Collins looked promising in his starts, but it would be fullish just to assume that he's the answer. Plus we now have a big hole on the right side. Stacey Andrews tore his ACL and 'other stuff' according to Marvin Lewis.

Brian Orakpo - DE - Texas - Aside from a few games in 08, the Bengals defense was fun to watch. Mike Zimmer appears to be the right man for the job as the Bengals finished the season with the #12 defense in the entire NFL. What's even crazier is that he did it while having to start a bunch of guys that would be backups at best on any other team (Thornton, Mays, Johnson, Dhani Jones, Jeanty, Blackstock, Crocker, White, David Jones, Fanene). You have to wonder what this defense would be like if they had a pass rush. Frostee Rucker was a pleasant surprise, but he has durability concerns. Antwan Odom wasn't a factor. Geathers seems to be his best when he just comes in on passing downs. If we drafted Orakpo, we could constantly keep putting fresh bodies on that D-line and have them rush the QB. Imagine a rotation of Geathers, Odom, Orakpo and Rucker. It's not the 07 Giants, but it's pretty darn good and it would make a young talented defense even better.

Malcom Jenkins - CB - Ohio State - I know what you're thinking, "we won't take him! We have Joesph and Hall!" But can we really afford to pass on a guy like Jenkins? Joseph has had ankle issues on numerous occasions. He had them last year, he had them the year before, and he had them in college. His contract is also up soon and will likely be expecting a big raise. On the other side, you have Leon Hall. Hall just isn't consistent. He'll have a game like the one against Baltimore where Clayton eats him alive, and then he'll have a game like the one against Cleveland where he'll shut the opposing teams passing game down. More importantly, what do we have behind those two guys? David Jones, Geoffrey Pope, Simeon Castille? The 2009 draft is very deep at corner, but having a guy like Jenkins would really help this defense for years to come.

Aaron Curry - OLB - Wake Forest - The Bengals LB's were something else last year. We draft Keith Rivers but only had him for 6 games. However, in those 6 games, I think he showed that he's going to be a hell of a player for us. Aside from him, the Bengals also got a lot of positive snaps from Corey Mays, Brandon Johnson, and Rashad Jeanty. I also happen to think that Dhani Jones was perhaps the most underrated player on this team last year. Just imagine how good the LB group would be with a guy like Curry. You're taking a position of strength and making it even stronger. To have a big, intimidating player running around like his hair is on fire.

Michael Crabtree - WR - Texas Tech - This would seem like a luxury pick to most, but if you stopped and thought about it, I think you would have to consider him. For one, Crabtree is an elite player. When you have a QB like Carson Palmer, getting him a weapon is never a bad pick. The Bengals now have TJ Houshmanzadeh (who is going to want a huge contract), Chad Ocho Cinco (who the hell knows what kind of mood he'll be in), Chris Henry (one traffic ticket away from being banned from the game) and then we have a lot of unproven guys. I didn't like the pick of Jerome Simpson last year, and I like it even less now. I don't see the guy ever being anything. Caldwell had a good game at the end of the season, but, c'mon, it was one game. Getting a guy like Crabtree could be the kick in the butt that this offense needs.

Taylor Mays - S - USC - Being in the AFC North, we know all to well how valuable a big time safety can be. Baltimore has one in Ed Reed, Pittsburgh has one in Troy Polamalu, and we could have ours in Taylor Mays.Imagine if you will a secondary that consists of Ndukwe and Mays. Seriously, aside from Hines Ward, I would have sympathy for opposing receivers that tried to go across the middle. FS may not be very high on our list of needs, but this guy would be a key clog in building a dominant defense.

Chris "Beanie" Wells - RB - Ohio State - Most people are comfortable with bringing back Cedric Benson, but what if we can't? What if the guy darts out of here? What if we resign him and then he becomes the old Benson that was a bust? Wells is often injured, but when he's healthy he's a very productive back. He's one of those guys that is one touch away from scoring a TD from any point on the field.

Chances are that one of these guys will be a Bengal in April. Who do you want?

BengalMedic
01-12-2009, 07:43 AM
Ok, if we don't make any free agency moves to improve the o-line and we sit tight at #6 without trading down in the draft, I'm putting my stock in Eugene Monroe. I'm very certain that Davis will be gone before #6 and Monroe is just the guy I'm looking at for the pick. RB and WR would make me want to hire a contract killer on whoever made the decision for that pick. I can't see Jenkins being the pick with 2 of the last 3 first rounders being CB's.

If we can get some o-line help in free agency (say Jordan Gross from the Panthers at LT) then I go defense without ANY thought whatsoever. I don't really think there would be a wrong pick between Orakpo, Curry, and add Mauluga. While I think Mays is just a beast at the safety position, I think the #6 spot needs to be used on the front 7. If I have to pick one of them, I'll take Curry as I think they still have faith in what Dhani brings to the table and a healthy Odom and Geathers will keep the pick from Orakpo.

It should be fun...

Why the Bengals
01-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Here's the deal:
I still blieve the o-tackle is something we can adress later on in the draft
I hope and pray this franchise realizes you do not win on Offense you win
games of Defense. Last year I think Marvin realized this and that is why
the focus shoulkd continue to be def.
One thought 3-4??
For that reason I like Jenkins, Maluoga(sorry) or Mays should be the picks
Imagine him, rivers and Jeanty or a 3-4 with those guys Odom or grathers could be stand up rush ends...
We need to realize Def wins. Look at the 4 teams left
Eagles-Def
Ravens-Def
Steelers-Def
Cardinals-offenseive team but there D has been great last 2 weeks
Continue building the defense

PalmerToCJ
01-12-2009, 12:57 PM
I do agree that defense is where it's at however our money is on offense and we have potential to be explosive. Not to mention our young defense was 12th overall last year and our offense was dead last. We need someone to block for the run game and protect Carson.

Not to mention OT has great value early in the draft. Levi and Willie worked out pretty well.

If we were to take Maualuga or Mays, I would want to trade back. I think Levi is done here so we need a LT and there's talk of Collins to RT.

A defense is very important for playoff success but the offensive line is just as important.

regoob2
01-12-2009, 01:46 PM
I assume you meant Andre Smith in the original post not Andre Davis. May want to change that. ;)

Aftermath
01-12-2009, 03:03 PM
At our pick i want either Eugene Monroe, Taylor Mays, or move Jenkins to FS and have him play corner if Joseph gets inevitably injured.

MooshooGawd
01-12-2009, 05:33 PM
I assume you meant Andre Smith in the original post not Andre Davis. May want to change that. ;)
Nice catch. Thanks.

regoob2
01-12-2009, 06:55 PM
Nice catch. Thanks.You still have "Davis" later in the paragraph ;).

Why the Bengals
01-13-2009, 12:19 PM
I understand the point on o-line. But once a o-line works together for a good amount of time they look better. Listen this time is not going to gun the ball all over anymore. Those days are over. They are going to run, run, pasd. When they made the playoffs as good as Carson was the running game was that much better.
I ask you since that playoff game and Carson's injury what has fallen off the most: the running game. If we can get that going Carson won't have to threw 40 times a game and he will be upright for most of it.
Win with d they have a great thing going now continue to build that side off the ball.
Again offense has done nothing with this francshise see let's do it the right way by building up the d

derza222
01-13-2009, 05:05 PM
If Collins does move to RT and Levi is done then it's really tough to argue the Bengals should pass on a tackle. Pass pro should be the focus since they need to keep Carson upright, and that being the case I wonder if Eugene Monroe is the best fit of the top guys. Oher and Smith are better physically but I wonder if Monroe is in the best position to step in, pass block, and contribute right away.

That said, I do wonder if Collins sticks at LT given he showed some things during what essentially would've been his senior year. In that case, really any case, center should get a look in the beginning of the second (awesome that you guys get to coach the Senior Bowl and maybe take your pick of those guys).

One thing that does seem logical to me, and you guys may absolutely hate it, is Everette Brown. I could be wrong but I think Marvin wants a pass-rushing end that's pretty smooth and athletic and Brown seems to fit the bill there. He in all likelihood will be on the board at 6, could move up into the top 10 range through workouts, and had some nice stats so he's not a workout wonder. Brown and a center could be a pretty nice day 1 for the Bengals and may be a direction Marvin wants to go in. Thoughts?

PalmerToCJ
01-13-2009, 05:10 PM
I understand the point on o-line. But once a o-line works together for a good amount of time they look better. Listen this time is not going to gun the ball all over anymore. Those days are over. They are going to run, run, pasd. When they made the playoffs as good as Carson was the running game was that much better.
I ask you since that playoff game and Carson's injury what has fallen off the most: the running game. If we can get that going Carson won't have to threw 40 times a game and he will be upright for most of it.
Win with d they have a great thing going now continue to build that side off the ball.
Again offense has done nothing with this francshise see let's do it the right way by building up the d

I agree completely on the running game, which also helps to back up my point on putting emphasis on the OL. Perry is a capable RB (minus his fumblitis, it's just he was making his first cut in the backfield... Not a recipe for success. Build up a stout Oline, pound the ball then give Carson time in passing downs to get the 1st or go for the big play. The defense was young and solid last season, there's reason to expect that the players will only continue to get better. When we're playing the Steelers/Ravens D 4 times a season, that Oline better be ready for battles.

As for Everette Brown, given the contracts of Geathers/Odom I'm not sure it happens. Not necessarily that I'd be against it, I'm just not sure it happens. I'd like to see a pass rushing LB, Zimmer will send the blitzers (WHICH I LOVE) so it's just a matter of finding a guy that can get to AND bring the QB down. Even then at least our secondary is stout enough that they don't need a pass rush to succeed.

derza222
01-13-2009, 05:46 PM
Theoretically if you don't go offensive line, what would the preference be? I presume no other offensive position really, it would seem to come down to LB or DE. So given the choice of any DE or any LB, which could be a real possibility, who would get the nod? Also, out of the tackles who do you think fits best?

Bengals78
01-13-2009, 08:56 PM
DE - Orakpo
LB - Curry/Maualuga
OT - Either Smith

MooshooGawd
01-18-2009, 03:49 PM
I say you have to take an offensive tackle.

If Smith and Monroe are gone, I say you try to trade down. Chances are you will be able to find a taker if you've got guys like Sanchez and Jenkins on the board.

If you can't trade down - and if Smith and Monroe are gone - I say then and only then do you take a defensive player.

My wishlist:
1.) Eugene Monroe
2.) Aaron Curry
3.) Michael Crabtree

MooshooGawd
01-18-2009, 06:03 PM
The more I think about it the more and more I want Crabtree.

Think about it. TJ might be gone. Even if he's not, he's getting a little older. Chad says that he's gone 'when Lebron is gone'. Which means he'll leave after 2010.

With Crabtree, you have an elite receiver that you can develop and allow to ease into a superstar.

hobbes2053
01-18-2009, 08:57 PM
Crabtree would a complete waste of a pick. Yes, he is freakishly gifted, but he is not what we need right now. It would be good to have him, but we have other more important needs than WR.

themaninblack
01-18-2009, 10:11 PM
I'd love to get Crabtree but not at 6.

Mr. Stiller
01-19-2009, 04:03 AM
Where do you guys sit Capwise?

Mr. Stiller
01-19-2009, 04:34 AM
Don't know the cap Situation but frankly:

1) Try to get ANYTHING for Chad Johnson
2) I need your "Cap room"


What I'd do?

Gun for Mark Tauscher. Yeah he's a bit old. He should be fairly cheap. He's played in every game since 2002, and he's about as solid as you can get for the RT. Allowing Andrews to come back and replace Kooistra at RG (IMHO).

Trade Chad Johnson for a 1st if Possible. I'm assuming it's not and the best you can get is a second:

1) Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas

You guys seriously need a passrusher that can beat OT's 1 on 1. Odom is good complete DE but still I think he'd be better on the strongside. Orakpo gives you a top flight weakside passrusher that can hold up against the run.

*2* Take your original 2 and trade up with your 4th to around pick 26-27:

1B) Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina

When Palmer Comes back, TJ is your only legit receiver. I know you grabbed who.. Simpson and Caldwell last year? Nicks to me just seems like a guy who'd thrive in your situation. I've heard the nickname.. Little Larry Fitz... and it Fits. He would give you a solid possession guy to play #2 to TJ or to play #1 if TJ leaves.

2B) Jared Cook, TE, South Carolina

One thing I noticed is, Cincy has always lacked a true Receiving threat at TE. Reggie Kelly is a solid blocker and Utecht... well you wouldn't miss him if he were gone.. Cook is raw but, he could give you guys a Kellen Winslow like Presence from the TE position and that gives you one more thing that makes defenses have to account for.


3) Antoine Caldwell, C/G, Alabama

He's one of the most physical Interior lineman and with his ability to get downfield, he should open your run game. Probably has the best anchor of the C's in this draft.

5) Jason Phillips, ILB, TCU

The guy is mean, plays mean, takes out RB's, can play in coverage and can attack the QB. He's physical and can shed blocks. A year or two to redshirt and he could be a phenom IMO.

6) Don Carey, CB, Norfolk State

Wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up some additional CB Help. Even if he only becomes a ST'er he might be able to play Dime back for some time. Though I think carey has nice upside.

7) Maurice Evans, DE, Penn State

He may or may not fall here.. I'm having a hard time guaging him. But he was thought of very highly prior to this season. Given time he could be a solid DE for you guys and even if not a Special teamer + situational passrusher is still solid

themaninblack
01-19-2009, 09:30 AM
Don't know the cap Situation but frankly:

1) Try to get ANYTHING for Chad Johnson
2) I need your "Cap room"


What I'd do?

Gun for Mark Tauscher. Yeah he's a bit old. He should be fairly cheap. He's played in every game since 2002, and he's about as solid as you can get for the RT. Allowing Andrews to come back and replace Kooistra at RG (IMHO).

Trade Chad Johnson for a 1st if Possible. I'm assuming it's not and the best you can get is a second:

1) Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas

You guys seriously need a passrusher that can beat OT's 1 on 1. Odom is good complete DE but still I think he'd be better on the strongside. Orakpo gives you a top flight weakside passrusher that can hold up against the run.

*2* Take your original 2 and trade up with your 4th to around pick 26-27:

1B) Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina

When Palmer Comes back, TJ is your only legit receiver. I know you grabbed who.. Simpson and Caldwell last year? Nicks to me just seems like a guy who'd thrive in your situation. I've heard the nickname.. Little Larry Fitz... and it Fits. He would give you a solid possession guy to play #2 to TJ or to play #1 if TJ leaves.

2B) Jared Cook, TE, South Carolina

One thing I noticed is, Cincy has always lacked a true Receiving threat at TE. Reggie Kelly is a solid blocker and Utecht... well you wouldn't miss him if he were gone.. Cook is raw but, he could give you guys a Kellen Winslow like Presence from the TE position and that gives you one more thing that makes defenses have to account for.


3) Antoine Caldwell, C/G, Alabama

He's one of the most physical Interior lineman and with his ability to get downfield, he should open your run game. Probably has the best anchor of the C's in this draft.

5) Jason Phillips, ILB, TCU

The guy is mean, plays mean, takes out RB's, can play in coverage and can attack the QB. He's physical and can shed blocks. A year or two to redshirt and he could be a phenom IMO.

6) Don Carey, CB, Norfolk State

Wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up some additional CB Help. Even if he only becomes a ST'er he might be able to play Dime back for some time. Though I think carey has nice upside.

7) Maurice Evans, DE, Penn State

He may or may not fall here.. I'm having a hard time guaging him. But he was thought of very highly prior to this season. Given time he could be a solid DE for you guys and even if not a Special teamer + situational passrusher is still solid

I have no idea what our cap space is like but apparently we've got plenty of room. Tauscher I like even if he's a bit older but Andrews would not come back to replace Kooistra at RG. We have Bobbie Williams at RG neway and hes one of our best lineman. Andrews will probably not come cheap, either.

Orakpo I'd be cool with, Nicks would also be nice though it'd be more of a luxury. I don't see TE being a priority this offseason. Utecht will be fine given some health and Kelly is basically another OT. The rest of your draft is nice especially Caldwell and Phillips. I doubt we draft Evans at all if he was one of those guys that got in trouble earlier this year but I can't really remember.

PalmerToCJ
01-19-2009, 01:55 PM
I've gotta say, while I still prefer an OT... I'm starting to open up to the idea of Curry. A guy that could get to the QB and play the MIKE or SAM if we needed him to. Our defense would be flat out nasty (can't believe I just said that).

lost33cause
01-19-2009, 05:04 PM
I found this link concerning cap space:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=286929

Bengalsrocket
01-20-2009, 09:47 AM
Chris Henry could be our #1 if he stays reliable. No reason to spend a high draft pick on another receiver.

Bengals78
01-20-2009, 10:53 AM
Chris Henry could be our #1 if he stays reliable. No reason to spend a high draft pick on another receiver.

Knowing Henry, that is a really really big if.

If it is not an OT, any offensive position can be addressed after round 1.

Our needs should probably look like this

1. Center (but not worth #6 overall)
2. Defensive End (need pass rush only slightly less than KC)
3. Linebacker (We need another presence back there to pair with Rivers)
4. Offensive Tackle (Collins looks great but this year is really really deep with talent here)
5. Running Back (We need the homerun threat from the backfield to split with Benson)
6. Full Back (Need that lead blocker for the RB)
7. Corner Back (We need depth at the position since JJ stays on the IR all the time)
8. Wide Receiver (Caldwell looks good, Henry is Henry, Ocho is on his own planet, TJ might be gone, Simpson is unknown quantity)
9. Defensive Tackle (Not much there behind Peko and Sims)
10. Guard (Depth is never a bad thing)
11. Safety (Chinny and White and Crocker are solid but a little extra help wouldnt hurt)
12. Tight End (Should be higher, but with Utecht, we really dont value TE)

lost33cause
01-20-2009, 02:41 PM
I don't think I'd be ok going into the season with Collins and Jones as our Tackles...My ideal situation would be to draft Adnre Smith if he fell to us and put him at RT and put Jones on top of the depth chart at LT with Collins behind him in the likelyhood that Jones slips at some point. I agree with Center being our biggest need though as well.

I feel we're an oline away from being a playoff contender again so that would be my priority in the draft/free agency. I worry about our pash rush but at the same time I have faith in Zimmer that he'll generate one because he said he would. At the moment I take Zimmer for his word until he messes that up. Not to mention no one we draft will bring us a pash rush this year anyway...Rookies very rarely come in and be productive at DE.

PalmerToCJ
01-20-2009, 04:02 PM
Anyone else with interest in going with Curry? Say if Smith is off the board?

I'm happy as long as we go impact defensive player or Oline. A team built on defense and the offensive line is a-ok with me. I'd prefer going Oline twice (Smith and Mack in my dreams) then maybe LB or RB.

It appears our Anti-Beanie campaign has worked for us, people are cooling off on the idea.




Concerning going OT in the 1st, I had been kinda iffy on the idea that it would help us immediately (not that it would hurt, just not impact) but then I realized the past few drafts results.

-In the past 3 seasons, a team drafting in the top 6 that has taken an offensive tackle has gone to the playoffs. Pretty much tells you what we should probably do haha. The Jets went in '06 drafting D'Brick and Mongold with their first two picks.

Bengals78
01-20-2009, 05:16 PM
The depth at OT this year is really something else. If A. Collins looks like he can work at LT, we could really lust look for a RT later in the draft.

I am hugely torn between Curry and an OT right now. He just seems so solid of a player it would be hard to pass. But so is A. Smith. We are in a very good spot IMO in the draft. Personally I hope we trade and find a way back into round one after 6 or trade #6 for more picks.

themaninblack
01-20-2009, 11:56 PM
Concerning going OT in the 1st, I had been kinda iffy on the idea that it would help us immediately (not that it would hurt, just not impact) but then I realized the past few drafts results.

-In the past 3 seasons, a team drafting in the top 6 that has taken an offensive tackle has gone to the playoffs. Pretty much tells you what we should probably do haha. The Jets went in '06 drafting D'Brick and Mongold with their first two picks.

I wouldn't put too much stock into that little tidbit of info(though it is interesting) especially with regard to the Jets. D'Brick by most accounts has not lived up to his billing yet and ever since then they haven't been much.

I am torn just like the both of you in that I think RT is more of a need but its hard to pass on a premier OT in the first like that. Really just depends on their confidence in Collins. I would love to get an impact defender like Curry though and he is probably my number 1 at this point. If we can walk away with a big time defensive player, a center, and an offensive tackle in the first 3 rounds then I'd be pretty happy regardless of which round we get the three.

Curry, IMO, would be insane with Rivers and it would really solidify our front seven. It would probably take away the need for a defensive end in some ways. But is six too high for him? IDK.

rickscott
01-21-2009, 07:24 AM
The depth at OT this year is really something else. If A. Collins looks like he can work at LT, we could really lust look for a RT later in the draft.

I am hugely torn between Curry and an OT right now. He just seems so solid of a player it would be hard to pass. But so is A. Smith. We are in a very good spot IMO in the draft. Personally I hope we trade and find a way back into round one after 6 or trade #6 for more picks.

About the only defensive player I wouldn't mind seeing us pick at #6 is Curry. I still want the OT. I know defense wins championships, but you gotta be able to at least protect your QB and throw the ball once in awhile. This O-line has looked pretty bad against quality opponents so top notch personnel must be brought in, not some 4th-5th rd picks to view for spots.

Bengals78
01-21-2009, 09:39 AM
About the only defensive player I wouldn't mind seeing us pick at #6 is Curry. I still want the OT. I know defense wins championships, but you gotta be able to at least protect your QB and throw the ball once in awhile. This O-line has looked pretty bad against quality opponents so top notch personnel must be brought in, not some 4th-5th rd picks to view for spots.

Like said before, we can get a solid OT in rounds 2 or 3. We should really consider moving Chad for a late 1st round pick, and taking someone like Eben Britton with our second pick. Now, that would only be a dream...