Best NT available at 12?

[boppool]

As a long time Broncos fan, I have a question for all of you guys.
When Broncos are picking at 12th, who should be the best NT available for new 3-4 scheme? Although they have a glaring need at safety and Mays would fit the bill, a new NT must be found in order for their new scheme to work. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

[Solomon]

As a long time Broncos fan, I have a question for all of you guys.
When Broncos are picking at 12th, who should be the best NT available for new 3-4 scheme? Although they have a glaring need at safety and Mays would fit the bill, a new NT must be found in order for their new scheme to work. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

BJ Raji.

And there is nobody else to even seriously consider with a first rounder. In round 2 or 3 his teammate Ron Brace will be a good fit.

[wonderbredd24]

I am eager to see how Ron Brace does in the offseason... out from Raji's shadow, if he performs real well at the Senior Bowl, Combine, etc he could really boost his draft stock. He could also plummet

[Menardo75]

B.J. Raji easily.

[boppool]

If traded down, would he be available in the middle of 1st round?

[PACKmanN]

I don't think a NT should be taken that high.

[P-L]

If traded down, would he be available in the middle of 1st round?
I think he should still be on the board in the 15-20 range.

[d34ng3l021]

I don't think a NT should be taken that high.

Yeah. Haloti Ngata is not working out for Baltimore.

NT is, in my opinion, the most important position on defense. If you can't stop runs up the middle on a somewhat consistent basis, then winning games becomes very difficult.

[PACKmanN]

Yeah. Haloti Ngata is not working out for Baltimore.

he a DE/NT... and the only reason I believe he even playing NT is because of injuries. Plus Raji isn't even in Ngata's class.

[d34ng3l021]

he a DE...

Yeah he does take snaps at DE, but NFL.com lists him as a NT. The Ravens website also lists him as the NT (in fact, they don't even have DEs. Next to the NT is the RDT and LDT lol). Also, Ngata was a DT coming out of college. The dude is 6'4" 340.

[the decider13]

I have a gut feeling that Raji is the pick if the broncos do officially switch to a 3-4

[PACKmanN]

Yeah he does take snaps at DE, but NFL.com lists him as a NT. The Ravens website also lists him as the NT (in fact, they don't even have DEs. Next to the NT is the RDT and LDT lol). Also, Ngata was a DT coming out of college. The dude is 6'4" 340.

I thought the d-line was Pryce-Gregg-Ngata. I agree, Raji isn't even in Ngata's class to allow him to be selected that high. Ngata a beast and has been used all over that Ravens defense.

[wonderbredd24]

If you're running the 3-4, your defense cannot work without an effective nose tackle. Too high isn't in your vocabulary for a good NT if you ask me.

[Babylon]

I'm not focing that pick for B.J. Raji, draft Rey Rey or Laurinaitis and grab someone for the middle in the next couple of rounds.

[Menardo75]

I think Raji could crack the late top ten. He could be a serious game changer.

[princefielder28]

I think Raji could crack the late top ten. He could be a serious game changer.

I agree with that

In my latest mock I had him going to Denver but I would not be the least bit suprised if a team like Jacksonville or Green Bay take a shot at him.

[energizerbunny]

Raji will go much higher simply because he is so much better then the next DT in the draft, 6'1 315+ and he had 8 sacks last year.

He may not be in Ngata's class but he surely isn't too far behind, he is almost a lock for the top 15 soley based on team needs.

[AntoinCD]

If you're running the 3-4, your defense cannot work without an effective nose tackle. Too high isn't in your vocabulary for a good NT if you ask me.

Agree with that. Look at the best 3-4 teams with Hampton, Williams, Wilfork and what Jenkins did for the Jets. Every bit as important as any position on defense. If your defensive line doesn't eat up blockers then your Harrisons, Wares etc aren't getting their sacks and it all starts with the big guy in the middle.

[rockio42]

Yeah he does take snaps at DE, but NFL.com lists him as a NT. The Ravens website also lists him as the NT (in fact, they don't even have DEs. Next to the NT is the RDT and LDT lol). Also, Ngata was a DT coming out of college. The dude is 6'4" 340.

He is only playing NT because Gregg was injured, every year before that he took 75 % of his snaps in the 3-4 at DE (or RDT)

[WildBill34a]

Why shouldn't they look at running back like Chris Wells/Knowshon Moreno? With all the injuries last year they could get a great player at that spot.

[boppool]

Why shouldn't they look at running back like Chris Wells/Knowshon Moreno? With all the injuries last year they could get a great player at that spot.

Trust me.. Broncos do not need any more running backs. They are high on Ryan Torain/Peyton Hillis as well as Selvin Young, Michael Pittman, Hall, Aldridge and Tatum Bell (though he's unlikely be back).
They have more glaring needs on pretty much every areas on defense.

[IPICKEDYOUOFF]

IMO the broncos do need a running back, however not in the first round...

Im a fan of scooping Maualuga MLB USC in the 1st and If still around scooping neither NT Evander Hood out of Missouri or going Running Back,nabbing the Hardnose runner Shonn Greene out of Iowa..

I also believe if we wait we can still find RB talent in the 3rd-4th round...
Javon Ringer, Mich St
James Davis, Clemson
Devin Moore, Wyoming

Also worth a look at DT/NT
Peria Jerry, Ole Miss (Top 25 Pick)
Sen'Derrick Marks, Auburn (2nd Rounder)
Ron Brace, Boston College (2nd-3rd Rounder)
Fili Moala, USC (2nd-3rd Rounder)

Right now ill stand at (1-15-09 7:44pmEST)

1.Rey Maualuga USC MLB
2.Shonn Greene RB IOWA
3.Evander Hood DT

[thebow305]

IMO the broncos do need a running back, however not in the first round...

Im a fan of scooping Maualuga MLB USC in the 1st and If still around scooping neither NT Evander Hood out of Missouri or going Running Back,nabbing the Hardnose runner Shonn Greene out of Iowa..

I also believe if we wait we can still find RB talent in the 3rd-4th round...
Javon Ringer, Mich St
James Davis, Clemson
Devin Moore, Wyoming

Also worth a look at DT/NT
Peria Jerry, Ole Miss (Top 25 Pick)
Sen'Derrick Marks, Auburn (2nd Rounder)
Ron Brace, Boston College (2nd-3rd Rounder)
Fili Moala, USC (2nd-3rd Rounder)

Right now ill stand at (1-15-09 7:44pmEST)

1.Rey Maualuga USC MLB
2.Shonn Greene RB IOWA
3.Evander Hood DT

I'm not so sure Hood would be a NT is a 3-4 defense. If he was drafted by you guys, it would more than likely be as an End. He isn't bulky or stout enough at the point of attack. But he certainly would make a good End in a 3-4 IMO. Same applies for Moala. Marks would be a terrible fit anywhere in the 3-4 scheme.

[IPICKEDYOUOFF]

Ron Brace is comming in at a hefty 330LBS whats the scoop on this cat...

10TFL 2.5 SCKS compared to Raji's 14 TFL and 7.5 scks....

[PossibleCabbage]

I think Raji could crack the late top ten. He could be a serious game changer.

Agreed. It's terribly hard to say what DTs might be available at 12, since it's not a great year for DTs anyway, and both Jacksonville and Green Bay pick before 12 and could use help on the interior DL. Plus, Green Bay doesn't need a whole lot on offense, doesn't really need LBs, and Ted Thompson has been known to take DTs higher than anybody expects them to be taken at the expense of greater perceived needs (Anybody want Justin Harrell?)

So Raji could be there at 18, or he could be gone at 8 (or higher?). He's definitely the top DT/NT on my board though.

[noromasionadom]

Ron Brace is comming in at a hefty 330LBS whats the scoop on this cat...

10TFL 2.5 SCKS compared to Raji's 14 TFL and 7.5 scks....

He is also 3 inches taller than Raji ... in comparison Raji is playing 340 I understand.

Brace looks thinner -- dunno if that is good or bad.

[furiousgod]

Yeah. Haloti Ngata is not working out for Baltimore.

NT is, in my opinion, the most important position on defense. If you can't stop runs up the middle on a somewhat consistent basis, then winning games becomes very difficult.

i agree completely.

[colinski]

"-As a long time Broncos fan, I have a question for all of you guys.
When Broncos are picking at 12th, who should be the best NT available for new 3-4 scheme? Although they have a glaring need at safety and Mays would fit the bill, a new NT must be found in order for their new scheme to work. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance" --Boppool"

Picking a NT at #12 probably isn't a good idea. The Broncos need a NT if they're going to switch to a 3-4 but addressing a need isn't the same thing as filling it. Denver has a choice between sacrificing value by reaching or maximizing value by taking the better player at another need area. Raji isn't a bad pick but he'd be going about 5 picks early. Making the switch to a 3-4 isn't possible in one draft so they're going to have to do what they can this year and fill NT -- hopefully -- next year.

I would make an offer to the Packer UFA Colin Cole, who's got size and should be fairly cheap (he's currently at 1.5 mill.). A Ron Brace or T. Taylor pick in the 3rd or 4th would add depth but the plan should be to find the eventual fix for NT down the road, which is good since finding all of the other pieces of a 3-4 is going to take more picks than they have this year.

A bigger concern should be finding DEs and OLBs for the 3-4, along with the other needs (Safety, interior OL, and maybe a one-cut back in the middle rounds). I realize some of the current players can switch, but there are positions where the talent isn't appropriate for switching. Goodman, V.P. Operations, has recently talked about making the transition by using a hybrid scheme, and that's also what Nolan did when he was DC at Baltimore and HC at San Francisco. New England has also used a hybrid, so McDaniels would be familiar with it, too.

"Obviously we'll have to adjust the personnel some," said Jim Goodman, who runs the Broncos' player personnel department. "(McDaniels) may want to do a hybrid type thing where he goes to a 4-3 some." -- in Denver Post

[Haralson98]

I'm not focing that pick for B.J. Raji, draft Rey Rey or Laurinaitis and grab someone for the middle in the next couple of rounds.


I agree completely, At 12 the Broncos should go after Maualuga and go after either Ron Brace in 2 or 3 or wait until round 4 and get Dorrell Scott from Clemson. Their ILB position would be set with D.J. Williams and Maualuga while Elvis Dumervil and Jarvis Moss could work as your OLB's.

I'm not sure how much money the Broncos have to work with but they could go after Chris Canty and they could have the making of a 3-4 defense in their first year.

Broncos first 3 picks:

Rey Maualuga, LB, USC
Shonne Greene, RB, Iowa
Ron Brace, DT, Boston College

If they switch to a 3-4 their front 7 could look like this:

DE: Chris Canty
NT: Ron Brace
DE: Ebenezer Ekuban

LB: Jarvis Moss
LB: Rey Maualuga
LB: D. J. Williams
LB: Elvis Dumervil

[twista6002]

Raji easily.

[CC.SD]

The Broncos shouldn't even be considering the 3-4 without a capable NT. It is by far the most important position on that D. The NT commanding regular double and triple teams is the reason a creative 3-4 can fire off blitzes from all gaps and all linebacker spots.

If the choice is between Raji and Rey and Denver picks Rey, I'll be smiling. and I loooooooove Rey.

[MarioPalmer]

I like your thought process on this, but this is not the year to take a DT that high. McCoy, Granger, and Marvin Austin all hit the league next year, 2010 and then you should be in the hunt for a top tier DT. This year seems to be a horrid year for a DT, its just like the senior class of QB's. A whole lot of maybe's but no for sure legit superstars in the making.

The Broncos in my opinion should take the chance of getting MLB's James Laurinaitis or Rey Maualuga to pair up with D.J. Williams. They need a QB on that defense, and maybe even grab CB Vontae Davis or Ohio St. CB M.Jenkins because of the obvious decline of Champ Bailey. Dre Bly isn't a shut down guy like he used to be and is a pretty solid CB but in no way capable of being a lockdown corer that contenders need. I think your fate lies in Rey Maualuga, James Laurinaitis, Vontae Davis or Malcolm Jenkins. Because Taylor Mays dropped out of the draft and Myron Rolle went to Oxford and William Moore not being the guy everyone thought he was it's a pretty obvious pick on defense.

But you guys could go offense and go with Knowshon Moreno or Beanie Wells. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those two in a Bronco uni come August. Plus with Shanahan gone it gives me every reason to believe that the philosophy of not taking a running back in the first will be thrown out the window. Moreno or Wells would be a huge lift for the Broncos and would give Cutler some much needed running threat to play along side him in that offense.

[bendert58]

Yeah it seems like Raji would fit really well. He can cover 2 gaps plus the guy is 325 pounds! It might be some adjustment for him considering he played alongside a pretty good #2 DT in Ron Brace. Brace could be a really good value for them as well though.

[bendert58]

The Broncos in my opinion should take the chance of getting MLB's James Laurinaitis or Rey Maualuga to pair up with D.J. Williams.

Isnt one of the knocks on Laurinaitis that he has trouble taking on blockers? That wouldnt seem a great fit for the 34, especially without a dominant NT.

[will99890]

Raji going top 15 wouldn't surprise me and imo wouldn't even be a reach. When I watched him this year he looked very explosive off the line for a man his size and build. I liked the way he shed blocks and even made some lineman look downright awful. When healthy and motivated he can be a force in the middle. However, I think any position in a 3-4 would be a waste compared to his potential production in a 4-3 with another good DT next to him.

[Staubach12]

I can see Raji dropping to 12. He's a legitimate NT, and a hell of a player. I saw him in person at the Music City Bowl, and this guy has it all. I see a little bit of Albert Haynesworth in him. That may be just me, though.

[MarioPalmer]

I think is a little over valued at 12. I see him more in the low 20's. And he seems more like a natural fit for a 3-4 team. With so many teams switching to that scheme and so many of those teams not having a legit NT it only seems natural for a team like the Dolphins, Chargers or the 49ers (but they are more likely to go wide out or QB, only if Sanchez is there then to go defense and also they pick higher than the Brocos and they won't touch him with that pick).

As soon as McCoy went back to school it took this DT class from C- to F. There isn't a superstar elite DT in this draft. It's not to say that Jerry, Marks, Raji or Suh don't have the potential to be stand out guys, but they have never dominanted to the point of elite consideration to the position. For example, when you watched Haloti Ngata in the 2005 NCAA season you saw complete dominantion and you saw the elite status of him as a prospect. Same for Marcus Stroud coming out of Georgia, Haynesworth coming out of Tennessee, Harris coming out of Oklahoma or Ellie coming out of USC. Raji and the rest don't pocess that kind of elite play making ability and I think with a pick as high as 12 with the kind of other top notch prospects that will be there it doesn't make much sense.

[ElectricEye]

I actually think Ron Brace would be the better pure nose tackle out of he and Raji. Raji is quicker and more explosive than a lot of people may think. Brace is the space eater out of the two.

[MarioPalmer]

I actually think Ron Brace would be the better pure nose tackle out of he and Raji. Raji is quicker and more explosive than a lot of people may think. Brace is the space eater out of the two.

I think Raji can be that hybrid NT sort of like Kris Jenkins or Haloti Ngata if he can put everything together. Like I said I like him as a NT, but I have to see more of him to make a full dive into the Kool-Aid. I like his size, I like his strength, and I like his powerful drive at the point of attack and the ability to hold up at the line of scrimmage, but I have to see more athleticism from him and the ability to be an every down threat and not just a 2 down guy which I'm a little afraid he might be. It will be interesting to see him at the combine and in his pre-draft workouts.

[ElectricEye]

I think Raji can be that hybrid NT sort of like Kris Jenkins or Haloti Ngata if he can put everything together. Like I said I like him as a NT, but I have to see more of him to make a full dive into the Kool-Aid. I like his size, I like his strength, and I like his powerful drive at the point of attack and the ability to hold up at the line of scrimmage, but I have to see more athleticism from him and the ability to be an every down threat and not just a 2 down guy which I'm a little afraid he might be. It will be interesting to see him at the combine and in his pre-draft workouts.

I really don't think you have to worry about Raji being a two down player. He plays well in passing situations as well. I'm not sure you really have the right idea of him as a player. He's quick as a cat for a man his size, not an elite athlete for the position but probably up there considering how big he plays. His conditioning needs some work but he really surprised me with how well he played this season despite sitting a year. I was under the impression he would come in out of shape and slow but he was really in the backfield almost the entire time this season. He's never going to be an elite pass rusher, but he isn't an UT. He's still going to be really good on passing situations for a guy that NT.

As far as the 3-4 stuff goes, I think Raji is more than capable of doing it and excelling at it, but I'm not sure you would be maximizing his potential at that spot.

[bpc]

I think Raji plays a lot like Dewayne Roberson and he did not work out in the 3-4. I don't think it fits his strongsuit. He would be better playing the under technique vs a 3-4 defense.

[Mr. Stiller]

I thought the d-line was Pryce-Gregg-Ngata. I agree, Raji isn't even in Ngata's class to allow him to be selected that high. Ngata a beast and has been used all over that Ravens defense.

It is. Gregg had a season ending injury and Justin Bannan is just a rotational player forcing Ngata over from DE to NT.

[Mr. Stiller]

I think Raji plays a lot like Dewayne Roberson and he did not work out in the 3-4. I don't think it fits his strongsuit. He would be better playing the under technique in a 3-4.

I'm still thinking Ron Brace is the better 3-4 Prospect. He reminds me a lot of Jamal Williams.

[ElectricEye]

I'm still thinking Ron Brace is the better 3-4 Prospect. He reminds me a lot of Jamal Williams.

I wouldn't go that far, but Brace is the better 3-4 NT out of the two, I think.

[Mr. Stiller]

I wouldn't go that far, but Brace is the better 3-4 NT out of the two, I think.

Similar styles. I think Raji would be perfect in Dallas. Their 1 gap style of defense (Moving their NT to DE with Canty) with Raji in the middle would give them a rather formidable line.

But I believe most of the other defenses prefer their guys to be more true 2 gapper run stoppers and Brace does that exceptionally well.

I just see a lot of the same technique/qualities with Brace that I see with Williams.. I'm not putting him on that plateau yet.

[Menardo75]

Now that Nolan is the DC you guys will probably be switching to a hybrid, so the Raji pick would make even more sense.

[Big_Pete]

I wouldn't take a NT at #12 in this draft.

I would be patient and look at options in later rounds such as Terrance Taylor and Ron Brace

even later good options will be around such as Sam Lee Hill and Athony Dixon


If Denver do switch to a 3-4, then DE, particularly Tyson Jackon becomes much better option at 12; perhaps with players like Darryl Richard and Roy Miller in later rounds.

An OLB or two wouldn't hurt either :)

[P-L]

Raji's actually not that good. He shouldn't be picked until #20 overall. http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[giantsfan]

I like your thought process on this, but this is not the year to take a DT that high. McCoy, Granger, and Marvin Austin all hit the league next year, 2010 and then you should be in the hunt for a top tier DT. This year seems to be a horrid year for a DT, its just like the senior class of QB's. A whole lot of maybe's but no for sure legit superstars in the making.

The Broncos in my opinion should take the chance of getting MLB's James Laurinaitis or Rey Maualuga to pair up with D.J. Williams. They need a QB on that defense, and maybe even grab CB Vontae Davis or Ohio St. CB M.Jenkins because of the obvious decline of Champ Bailey. Dre Bly isn't a shut down guy like he used to be and is a pretty solid CB but in no way capable of being a lockdown corer that contenders need. I think your fate lies in Rey Maualuga, James Laurinaitis, Vontae Davis or Malcolm Jenkins. Because Taylor Mays dropped out of the draft and Myron Rolle went to Oxford and William Moore not being the guy everyone thought he was it's a pretty obvious pick on defense.

But you guys could go offense and go with Knowshon Moreno or Beanie Wells. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those two in a Bronco uni come August. Plus with Shanahan gone it gives me every reason to believe that the philosophy of not taking a running back in the first will be thrown out the window. Moreno or Wells would be a huge lift for the Broncos and would give Cutler some much needed running threat to play along side him in that offense.

Unfortunately neither McCoy, Granger or even Austin profile as potential NTs, so I think that this year they need to grab either raji, brace or taylor in their first three picks or one of the rawer big boys later in day two to bring along slowly.

Lil Animal would be a bad pick because that D needs to establish some sort of run D and in a three-four lil animal will get swallowed up way too often. Rey Rey could be a good pick although I still feel like top 15 is high for him.
Oh and Bailey is not declining he was just injured during the season. Dre Bly is very meh and getting a corner to battle for the nickel spot and eventually supplant Bly would be nice but not a first round need, although I could see Champ taking a raw kid like vontae under his wing, although to me vontae is more of a late first rounder early second rounder due to how piss poor of a junior campaign he had.

The problem with their running game wasn't a lack of talent at the running back position, it was that none of their guys could stay on the field for more than a game or two without getting injured, that shouldn't be the case next year and I expect them to focus on D all offseason and role with Torain, Young, Hillis, etc.

[wonderbredd24]

The Broncos may not have a shot at Raji if the 49ers take him at 9.

I still don't understand people who think you can take a nose tackle too high as a 3-4 team. If more teams in college ran the 3-4, I expect a nose tackle would go in the top 5.

Depending on how long Saban stays in Alabama, he should be able to get some supremely talented nose tackles who would fit the bill

[CC.SD]

Raji's actually not that good. He shouldn't be picked until #20 overall. http://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

Nah, I think he's just good enough for #16.

[DiG]

Nah, I think he's just good enough for #16.

Hopefully if the big 4 OTs are off the board he doesnt fall past #13...

[bpc]

I'm a bronco fan so i've already rehearsed most of this in my head. BJ Raji is a good player but I definitely think he fits a shade technique (4-3, 1 or 3 tech) better than a heads up. He has rare quickness off the ball (like Roberson when he came from UK) and is especially explosive when he gets his hands up into offensive linemen.

I think if you put him in the 3-4, it negates a lot of his strong attributes and mutes out that ability. I don't think he'll be bad in a 3-4, just irrelevant like how Roberson was with Mangino at New York.

Ron Brace is a better player for the 3-4 because he's a fat body who can take up blocks, multiple players at a time.

I think this year is extremely short on NT type talent.

I do think that there are a bunch of solid DE/DT 5 techniques in the draft. I think Tyson Jackson could be great in that role, along with Fili Moala from USC. Paul Kruger is another interesting player to me. I think he projects very well, similar to Justin Smith from SF.

If i'm Denver, I'm trying to leverage a team like Philly into moving up in the #12 spot for another offensive play-maker like Jeremy Maclin if he is there or a MLB starved team who wants Maualuga.

Denver should actively try to move back in this draft and add a bunch of players. We could seriously improve at 9 or 10 starting positions on our defense so we need players, players and more players.

I hope Denver drops back and finds a way to land William Moore and a couple front 7 prospects. I would be happy with the DL players mentioned above.

BTW, I hope Denver skips this hybrid bs between the 3-4 and 4-3. You don't get better like that. Let's commit to a defense and acquire some talent to fit and learn in the system.

[giantsfan]

They'd do well to grab rey rey, William Moore or louis delmas and Taylor/brace with their first three picks. Gives them a missile to pair with DJ inside of moss and dumervil, a Nose and safety.