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49ersfan_87
03-04-2007, 10:12 PM
What do you guys think of him after his first year as head coach? And also, from what you guys know, how much does he affect what players are drafted/signed?

TacticaLion
03-04-2007, 10:17 PM
What do you guys think of him after his first year as head coach? And also, from what you guys know, how much does he affect what players are drafted/signed?I think he is a complete genius. Hes taken the Lions' franchise and basically told all the whiners/complainers/babies to leave. He's drafting smart, hard-working players that fit what HE wants on the defense (hence the "reach" for Sims). He wont take "no" and wont stand for complaining.

You can see how past players want to play for him. He works the players hard... all season... and the players finally come around and see the end product.

[bad word] James Hall, [bad word] Dre' Bly and [bad word] every other player that couldn't take "hard work". Marinelli knows what he wants and he'll get it.

Phew... there's the rant.

bearsfan_51
03-04-2007, 10:44 PM
Untill he actually wins more than 3-4 games I don't think you can put genius and Marinelli in the same paragraph. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Millen drafted and signed a bunch of turds and that something needed to be done.

lionsfan81
03-05-2007, 12:09 AM
Untill he actually wins more than 3-4 games I don't think you can put genius and Marinelli in the same paragraph. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Millen drafted and signed a bunch of turds and that something needed to be done.

lovie smith went 5-11 his first season. im sure u love what hes done with the bears. i dont think its that far of a reach to put 8-10 wins in the lions range if they continue how they are doing in free agency and have a very successful draft. marinelli knows what hes doing, theres no doubt about that, he just has to help get the talented players in to complete his vision, and it starts by aiding matt millen in every decision he makes.

bearsfan_51
03-05-2007, 08:20 AM
I wouldn't have called Lovie a genius after that first season. In fact, I still wouldn't.

And it is definately a very far reach to think the Lions will win 10 games. Very far.

I'm curious as to what empircal evidence that either of you have that Marinelli knows what he's doing other than the fact that you're Lions fans and you want him to? I'm not saying he doesn't, but you can't make this determinations right now because there isn't enough to judge.

Like I said, any idiot in the world knew that the Lions were full of bums that needed to be cut. That doesn't make him a genius.

TacticaLion
03-05-2007, 08:50 AM
I wouldn't have called Lovie a genius after that first season. In fact, I still wouldn't.

And it is definately a very far reach to think the Lions will win 10 games. Very far.

I'm curious as to what empircal evidence that either of you have that Marinelli knows what he's doing other than the fact that you're Lions fans and you want him to? I'm not saying he doesn't, but you can't make this determinations right now because there isn't enough to judge.

Like I said, any idiot in the world knew that the Lions were full of bums that needed to be cut. That doesn't make him a genius.I love Bearsfans.

What is he doing? Pissing the players off. Working their asses off for the ENTIRE season and watching them ***** and moan. He's also getting the right players for the team... players that wont ***** and moan and players that want to play hard. Turning a franchise around isn't just about the players... its about the mentality.

Why do I consider him a genius? Because it took 3 coaches to realize what actually works. The last two coaches sat back and pampered the players... Marinelli stuck a foot in their ass. As a fan, thats what I want to see happen.

You want evidence? Heres the evidence: players complaining in pre-season workouts, starters playing on special teams (which didn't happen before), stupid, lazy vetrans requesting trades and drafting Sims last year at #9. He knows what he wants for HIS team and he'll get it.

Lovie Smith's Bears were at a better point than Marinelli's Lions were. You can't even begin to argue that.

(Note: you claimed that "any idiot in the world knew that the Lions were full of bums...". Interesting. Any idiot in the world also knew that Grossman is a pathetically horrible QB, yet your coach still thought he could win a big game. Funny stuff. And, no... as Rick Reilly said... you didn't win 15 games "with" Rex... you won 15 games in spite of Rex.)

bearsfan_51
03-05-2007, 01:01 PM
I think a more accurate comment would be.

"Compared to the last few coaches, Marinelli is a genius".

Any logical person would have done the same thing Marinelli has done, unfortunately you have a GM that took numerous tries before finding that person.

By the way, your comments about the Bears are both out of place and laughable. This has nothing to do with the Bears, and if it did, someone that is a fan of a team that has never won is in no way qualified to make comments as such. Our season last year is better than any the Lions have had since Eisenhower was President.

Addict
03-05-2007, 01:11 PM
I think a more accurate comment would be.

"Compared to the last few coaches, Marinelli is a genius".

Any logical person would have done the same thing Marinelli has done, unfortunately you have a GM that took numerous tries before finding that person.

By the way, your comments about the Bears are both out of place and laughable. This has nothing to do with the Bears, and if it did, someone that is a fan of a team that has never won is in no way qualified to make comments as such. Our season last year is better than any the Lions have had since Eisenhower was President.

He simply stated that the Bears were in a far stronger position when Lovie took control than the Lions were when Rod (what kind of parent names it's kid 'rod' anyway?) took over.

And your season last year was better than the bears had in quite some time as well. Best start since '85, if I am not mistaken.

Anyways. I like what Marinelli is doing and I hope he keeps it up, bringing quality players without a big mouth and bigger ego to Detroit will get us going in the right direction.

And was it him or Millen who got CRog cut? Anyway the one who did that deserves a prize. Don't care what kind of prize, any prize will do.

TacticaLion
03-05-2007, 01:41 PM
I think a more accurate comment would be.

"Compared to the last few coaches, Marinelli is a genius".

Any logical person would have done the same thing Marinelli has done, unfortunately you have a GM that took numerous tries before finding that person.

By the way, your comments about the Bears are both out of place and laughable. This has nothing to do with the Bears, and if it did, someone that is a fan of a team that has never won is in no way qualified to make comments as such. Our season last year is better than any the Lions have had since Eisenhower was President.My comments about the Bears are true, and are just as reasonable (if not more reasonable) than yours. It isn't unreasonable for star players to get special treatment... it happens all over the league. Marinelli is one of the few coaches that doesn't put up with it. And, I like the fact that he doesn't.

News flash: this is an internet forum. I am "qualified" to make any comment that i'd like to make. If a Lions fan isn't qualified to make comments, why'd you post in the Lions discussion thread? Great point. Get over yourself and your "Would-Be-Average-In-The-AFC" team... any fan is entitled to make any comment that he'd like to.

Why don't you stick to the Bears' threads? At least there you'll have other "my-team-is-the-best-of-the-worst" fans to pat you on the back and support your ridiculous comments.

Xiomera
03-05-2007, 01:48 PM
I don't like him since he opted not to coach at the Senior Bowl.

Addict
03-05-2007, 01:54 PM
I don't like him since he opted not to coach at the Senior Bowl.

That's it? Wow.

Xiomera
03-05-2007, 01:55 PM
That's it? Wow.

No, not really. I am undecided thus far. A 3-13 record did little to convince me to like him though.

TacticaLion
03-05-2007, 02:01 PM
No, not really. I am undecided thus far. A 3-13 record did little to convince me to like him though.The Bly trade... the cutting of CRog... the bitching from the player of "working too hard"... and the drafting of Sims... that convinced me so far. If he finds a way to draft Willis, i'll worship him. Oh yes... worship.

Addict
03-05-2007, 02:19 PM
The Bly trade... the cutting of CRog... the bitching from the player of "working too hard"... and the drafting of Sims... that convinced me so far. If he finds a way to draft Willis, i'll worship him. Oh yes... worship.

Be honest. You've already built him a shrine in your bedroom.

TacticaLion
03-05-2007, 02:26 PM
Be honest. You've already built him a shrine in your bedroom.Bedroom? I built his shrine in the "Marinelli" room...

Addict
03-05-2007, 02:37 PM
Bedroom? I built his shrine in the "Marinelli" room...

=_=' oh yeah, I forgot about that room.

I'm still trying to convince my mom a real life picture of Marinelli painted to the wall would look a lot cooler than that horrificly awfully ugly mirror she's got hanging in the toilet now. But she's complaining that 'she can't do it with someone watching'. Parents.

detroit4life
03-05-2007, 02:37 PM
i like what hes doing a lot hes getting rid of anyone who isnt here to work their hardest no matter how big their name is. Hall and bly were two big name guys on this defense and he got rid of them becuase they didn't fit or they didn't wanta work. He's going to help this team out a lot and sure he went 3-13 lat year and might not do a ton better htisyear but if we give him time he will give us a good team who will work hard. Im excited to see what hes doing Mooch sat back and let these guys slack off but Marinelli isnt gonna stand for that and this feels like the right guy for this job

TacticaLion
03-05-2007, 02:39 PM
i like what hes doing a lot hes getting rid of anyone who isnt here to work their hardest no matter how big their name is. Hall and bly were two big name guys on this defense and he got rid of them becuase they didn't fit or they didn't wanta work. He's going to help this team out a lot and sure he went 3-13 lat year and might not do a ton better htisyear but if we give him time he will give us a good team who will work hard. Im excited to see what hes doing Mooch sat back and let these guys slack off but Marinelli isnt gonna stand for that and this feels like the right guy for this jobEXACTLY! Word for word.

Mooch got trampled... Marinelli showed them the door.

Addict
03-05-2007, 02:42 PM
i like what hes doing a lot hes getting rid of anyone who isnt here to work their hardest no matter how big their name is. Hall and bly were two big name guys on this defense and he got rid of them becuase they didn't fit or they didn't wanta work. He's going to help this team out a lot and sure he went 3-13 lat year and might not do a ton better htisyear but if we give him time he will give us a good team who will work hard. Im excited to see what hes doing Mooch sat back and let these guys slack off but Marinelli isnt gonna stand for that and this feels like the right guy for this job

Could not agree more. Marinelli has really gotten the Lions on the right track, and he deserves props for it.

bearsfan_51
03-05-2007, 02:47 PM
The right track based on what?

All of this sounds great, but untill he wins some games, as Xio pointed out, it's all just baseless rhetoric.

Addict
03-05-2007, 02:54 PM
The right track based on what?

All of this sounds great, but untill he wins some games, as Xio pointed out, it's all just baseless rhetoric.

Imagine a big long road of rail, on which a train stands still. Now this train used to be a pretty bad-lookin' train, and now, thanks to Marinelli, it looks a whole lot better. Now it's just a simple nudge to get the train going and we're golden!

<if you have no imaginiation: the lions look a lot better now, and they're ready-er to make some noise>

detroit4life
03-05-2007, 02:57 PM
even if he doesn win games next year its hard for you to say he's not leading them in the right direction. If he keeps this up no matter what happens this team will be in a better position to win than they were when he got here becuase every guy here is going to be here to work hard and hit hard and do everything hard rather then when he got here when he had guys who did barely waht they had to do to get by so i agree with you on the fact that he needs to win games to prove something but that goes for every coach in this league looking at the things he's doing right now he's doing a great job he cant work miracles the question was what do we think of him after his first year. Well give me a coach that in his first year with an all new system on both offense and defense was able to win a ton of game.

bearsfan_51
03-05-2007, 02:59 PM
I am in no way saying that Marinelli is doing a bad job. Nor am I judging him by his record in his first year. That's a very very bad Lions team, Bill Walsh couldn't have taken them to the playoffs. I like Marinelli, I wanted him to be the Bears DC back in 2004 when Lovie was hired and I think it was a smart move by the Lions to hire him.

However. They are much more closer to winning 3 games again next year than 10. I think almost anyone that doesn't have a bias would agree with that. They are still a very untalented and underwhelming team, and to call him a genius is just wishful thinking at this point.

To bring up Grossman or any other peripheral arguments is to avoid the fact that it's an absurd statement to make, and I promise that if a poll were made the in the NFL forum it would be about 90-95% in agreement with me.

detroit4life
03-05-2007, 03:05 PM
i agree with the fact that we are closer to winning three games then ten next year but at this point im fine with that becuase marinelli is stripping this team down to the core players that he wants for his offense and defense and only players that have heart and are ready to work hard. He is setting a tone in the locker room that either you work your hardest or ill show you the door. I havent seen this attitude in this organization in a very long time and its exactly what they need. Im not looking to build for next year im looking to have a good team in a couple years and marinelli is putting this team in a position to do that.

Now i never took shots at grossman or the bears im just agreeing with these supporters of Marinelli who mayb genious is a strong term but IMO he has done a great job so far. No coach in this league could have won a ton of games with this team last year this is a rebuilding process that for once seems to be going in the right direction

Addict
03-05-2007, 03:14 PM
I am in no way saying that Marinelli is doing a bad job. Nor am I judging him by his record in his first year. That's a very very bad Lions team, Bill Walsh couldn't have taken them to the playoffs. I like Marinelli, I wanted him to be the Bears DC back in 2004 when Lovie was hired and I think it was a smart move by the Lions to hire him.

However. They are much more closer to winning 3 games again next year than 10. I think almost anyone that doesn't have a bias would agree with that. They are still a very untalented and underwhelming team, and to call him a genius is just wishful thinking at this point.

To bring up Grossman or any other peripheral arguments is to avoid the fact that it's an absurd statement to make, and I promise that if a poll were made the in the NFL forum it would be about 90-95% in agreement with me.

Wow. no need to get all cranky on us. I actually like grossman... well, that's not true, he's incredibly frustrating, but I do think he's being judged way to harsh.

Nobody said they're going to win 10 games next year, but you can't argue that we're ascending right now. Maybe, hopefully we'll end up with 6 to 8 wins, that'd be a great thing for us right now.

bearsfan_51
03-05-2007, 03:28 PM
Nobody said they're going to win 10 games next year, but you can't argue that we're ascending right now.

Actually somebody did say that.

Addict
03-05-2007, 03:31 PM
Actually somebody did say that.

Yeah, I read it back. Wishfull thinking. Maybe in 2 or 3 seasons, we'd be in that region, if this ascending line keeps up, that's a good possibility.

TacticaLion
03-05-2007, 03:40 PM
Winning starts with a mindset. We've finally got that mindset, and that's more than we've had in the last few years. The season was NOT as bad as the record indicates... a lot of close games were lost on the final drive/play.

I won't look at the record last year and think they'll be horrible again next year... i'll look at the strides the team has made and the direction the team is going. Many consider the Lions to be the laughing stock of the league... and I could care less. Things will turn around in the next few years.

Pocket
03-05-2007, 08:17 PM
I really like Marinelli, but I still do not like Millen.


Marinelli seems like he knows what he is doing, so hopefully he can begin a turn around.

Iamcanadian
03-07-2007, 07:56 AM
Judging a HC on his 1st year is very difficult so Marinelli had better show improvement or else. I don't put all the blame on Marinelli because I doubt he has any say on his offense and he will have to rely on Millen's draft picks to succeed. That proved too much for our last 3 HC's and will probably prove too much for Marinelli.
Marinelli accepted this HCing position knowing he would have zero control over the offense, the only HC in the NFL to have no say whatsoever in his OC's decisions. While there are other HC's who have complete confidence in their OC's, they all still retain the final say over them, while Marinelli has no say. That is why Detroit's organization is considered dysfunctional by everybody in pro football. I don't know if any HC could succeed under these conditions, we'll find out next season.
All the talk about Marinelli's toughness being so important is just so much hype, so far he was very lucky to win 3 games. Dungy isn't a tough HC and he won the Super Bowl, so how important is being tough.
I want wins and if Marinelli provides them in abundance I'll love the guy, if he doesn't, I'll hate the guy. This season should give us some incite into whether or not Millen can actually find a HC who can win with the talent he provides. I'm not holding my breath in anticipation because I suspect we will be right back here next year with a top 5 pick.

TacticaLion
03-07-2007, 10:19 AM
Judging a HC on his 1st year is very difficult so Marinelli had better show improvement or else. I don't put all the blame on Marinelli because I doubt he has any say on his offense and he will have to rely on Millen's draft picks to succeed. That proved too much for our last 3 HC's and will probably prove too much for Marinelli.
Marinelli accepted this HCing position knowing he would have zero control over the offense, the only HC in the NFL to have no say whatsoever in his OC's decisions. While there are other HC's who have complete confidence in their OC's, they all still retain the final say over them, while Marinelli has no say. That is why Detroit's organization is considered dysfunctional by everybody in pro football. I don't know if any HC could succeed under these conditions, we'll find out next season.
All the talk about Marinelli's toughness being so important is just so much hype, so far he was very lucky to win 3 games. Dungy isn't a tough HC and he won the Super Bowl, so how important is being tough.
I want wins and if Marinelli provides them in abundance I'll love the guy, if he doesn't, I'll hate the guy. This season should give us some incite into whether or not Millen can actually find a HC who can win with the talent he provides. I'm not holding my breath in anticipation because I suspect we will be right back here next year with a top 5 pick.I agree for the most part... but a few things:

Marinelli DOES have some say in the draft... which is why Sims was drafted at #9 last year. Believe me... that wasn't a Millen pick.

The importance of being (or not being) tough depends on your team. Our team was a team that didn't want to work hard and knew they wouldn't win... which requires a "tough HC" to turn it around. If Mooch had been given the Colts, HE could've gotten them deep into the playoffs. The Colts are a team that's used to winning... they know how to win and what it takes to win. So, a laid back HC can thrive in that environment.

Our players sat back and didnt care... and Marinelli has them caring again.