Crabtree NOT running the 40

[BroadwayJoe10]

Per rotoworld; The biggest unknown about Crabtree is his straight-line speed, so backing out of the forty on a level playing field raises question marks. It also indicates that Crabtree hasn't timed well during his pre-draft preparation. Crabtree could always change his mind at the last minute like Calvin Johnson two years ago, but for now he only plans to run at the Texas Tech Pro Day. Feb. 1 - 12:17 pm et

I'm not only surprised, but quite disappointed at this. His straight-line speed really was his only question and this just raises questions that maybe it is as bad as everyone thinks. I still feel he's supplanted as the #1 receiver on most boards, but I wouldn't be surprised if Maclin narrows the gab on some.

[SenorGato]

Booooooo if this ends up being truuuuuue.

[CroomDawgs]

Brilliant move IMO. he'll run an inflated 40 time at hs pro day. This move prolly got hi ma top 5 pick.

[LonghornsLegend]

I don't blame him, Reggie Bush didn't want to run at the combines same with alot of other skill position players, if I had to guess right now I'd say Harvin backs out too and only runs at his pro day.


Not really a big deal to me, Maclin can improve his stock with a great 40 but I don't think he comes off the board before Crabtree unless he runs a high 4.5 low 4.6 on his pro day.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I don't understand the point of running it at the pro-day and not the combine. All the scouts and talent evaluators have adjustments that they make for each field they run on, so his true speed will be shown regardless. I would say sack up and run it at the combine.

[BRAVEHEART]

This is a smart move for him.

[nobodyinparticular]

I don't understand the point of running it at the pro-day and not the combine. All the scouts and talent evaluators have adjustments that they make for each field they run on, so his true speed will be shown regardless. I would say sack up and run it at the combine.

Part of it is that you have much more training time for your Pro Day than the Combine. You can get in a solid 6 weeks of extra training time which, in physical training, can be a big difference if you're talking about a month and a half to train vs. three months to train.

[thetedginnshow]

I don't think this says anything about his pre-draft preparation. But if that is such a big issue for him (and I'd think seeing the play of Fitz in these playoffs would help detract from the necessity on speed), it'd only make sense to wait until his Pro Day so he can get in as much training for the 40 before running as possible.

[Mr Guido]

Hey dow, fo really, dude dont need to be runnin when everyone thinks hes a top five pick, boi.

Nows if you bigs in the pants, you dont be showing girls da goods if dey aint bought you some tanning sessions, right?

Same thing

[djp]

I don't blame him, Reggie Bush didn't want to run at the combines same with alot of other skill position players, if I had to guess right now I'd say Harvin backs out too and only runs at his pro day.


Not really a big deal to me, Maclin can improve his stock with a great 40 but I don't think he comes off the board before Crabtree unless he runs a high 4.5 low 4.6 on his pro day.

I think Crab will run a mid-high 4.5 at his Pro Day and his stock will drop and Maclin will jump him.

[BRAVEHEART]

I think Crab will run a mid-high 4.5 at his Pro Day and his stock will drop and Maclin will jump him.

Sounds most likely, especially since Crab will probably measure smaller than his listed height.

[Menardo75]

I don't blame him either probably a great move especially if his 40 is not great.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Shocking!

A bit disappointing, but pretty well expected.

[WMD]

I don't expect many top prospects to do much at the Combine. They need to protect themselves.

[HellonEarth84]

I dont think it would really matter any way. He is clearly the best WR in this class and doesnt need to prove himself at the combine.

Fitzgerald didn't exactly blaze the 40 and he was still a top pick.

[BlindSite]

I don't necessarily blame him, he's got nothing to gain by doing every single drill.

[Abaddon]

Part of it is that you have much more training time for your Pro Day than the Combine. You can get in a solid 6 weeks of extra training time which, in physical training, can be a big difference if you're talking about a month and a half to train vs. three months to train.

This.

He's working with Michael Johnson speed training, so you know he's trying to shave off every 100th of a second that he can before the stopwatches get him. That's all well and good, but will he maintain his fabricated speed once he turns pro?

[LonghornsLegend]

This.

He's working with Michael Johnson speed training, so you know he's trying to shave off every 100th of a second that he can before the stopwatches get him. That's all well and good, but will he maintain his fabricated speed once he turns pro?

Why is it fabricated? He's still training to get faster, this is nothing different then what every single skill position player does every off-season, the goal is to become as fast as you can.

[Abaddon]

It's fabricated because training to run a 40 yard dash isn't the same as training to maintain a better top end speed, which is why I asked if he'd continue to speed train in order to maintain it. He won't hold on to that added speed unless he continues to train it, which is unlikely considering how busy he'll be with the standard NFL offseason programs. You don't keep your speed if you stop speed training. Same with strength. Same with endurance.

It's like cramming the night before a test. You try to memorize as much as you can in order to pass the test. But, odds are, you won't retain the majority of that information afterwards. You're not getting any smarter over the long haul. All you did was BS your way into a passing test score. Same concept.

[etk]

How many projected top-5 players DO run their 40 at the combine?

[tony77]

All of these combine/pro day events are for guys trying to work into the top tier. Crabtree would only hurt his draft status, he won't help it any more, so why bother?

Besides, straight-line speed doesn't matter much (to me anyway). Can my receiver run the right routes, or change direction quickly when a tackler is coming at him?

I know this is old, but Jerry Rice never ran a good 40, but was the best ever. Troy Williamson ran a great 40, and look where he is.

[LonghornsLegend]

It's fabricated because training to run a 40 yard dash isn't the same as training to maintain a better top end speed, which is why I asked if he'd continue to speed train in order to maintain it. He won't hold on to that added speed unless he continues to train it, which is unlikely considering how busy he'll be with the standard NFL offseason programs. You don't keep your speed if you stop speed training. Same with strength. Same with endurance.

What ?? It's not "fabricated", that word means made up in the sense that your implying that he's not getting faster at all.


For the record why are you acting like he's the only player who trains to run a fast 40? Can you ever remember a skill position player not working to improve his 40 before the combine? Your making a bigger deal out of this, it's not like he runs a 4.7 and is trying to train to get it down to a 4.4, the timed speed is all for the scouts and draft stock, once that whole process is over timed speed doesn't even matter anymore.


He has been training with Michael Johnson in Dallas for more then a few years now and they are pretty close, I think it's safe to assume he will still train with him in the off-season, and when your doing "speed training", your not just learning how to run the 40, your getting more explosive which translates to the football field...It's not some science where they just teach you how to run fast for 40 yards but you can't use any of that on a field, your working your fast twitch muscles and how to be a better athlete in general at Michael Johnson's facility.

[Biscuit]

http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/seah...in_on_crabtree

Michael Irvin on Crabtree

With mock drafts currently listing the Seattle Seahawks drafting Michael Crabtree, I decided to try and roundup some more information on him. And who better to talk to but Michael Irvin, a friend of the Crabtree family and one of the people advising the redshirt sophomore as he prepares for the upcoming April draft.

Crabtree, who recently announced he's entering this year's draft, is working out with Olympic champion sprinter Michael Johnson and receiving advice from Irvin and Deion Sanders as he prepares for the combine and his pro day. Crabtree will not run the 40-yard dash at the combine, but will run at his Pro Day.

Even after the gaudy numbers and spectacular plays Crabtree has put together over his college career, and his two Fred Biletnikoff awards as the best college in the country, there are still lingering questions about the talented receiver.

Is he fast enough?

Is he injury prone?

Is he a system player?

Irvin addressed some of those issues in a conversation I had with him during Super Bowl week.

“I think he’s going to be a phenomenal player in this league, but he has to fall into the right system,” Irvin said. “You cannot put a big guy like Crabtree in a system that caters to small receivers, what I call a scat system. You have to put him in a system where his size and strength can be used to his advantage.

“This is what confuses me a lot of times. When you talk about players and where they would play and how would they perform, people tend to think that you can take any player and play him anywhere, if he’s a true player. But true success comes when you put a player in a system that fits his talent. And his talent, he’s a big guy. So put him in a timing offense. Let him run some out routes, timing routes. Get the ball in his hands and let these DBs fall off of him because he’s such a big, strong runner. He reminds me a lot of Anquan Boldin. And I love Boldin. He’s a beast. And so is Crabtree.

“In this game now, when you’ve got a guy who can run like that, go and get the ball and you can’t touch him after five yards anymore? Oh God, that’s advantage offense all the way right there.”

Not necessarily a burner himself, but now in the Hall of Fame and considered one of the best receivers to play the game, Irvin said the speed question should be considered in a larger, overall perspective.

Irvin talked about game speed, and maintaining speed over the course of the game. He said some guys are running 4.4 40-yard dashes at the beginning of the game, but their speed decreases through the course of the contest and they’re slower in the fourth quarter. Irvin believes that Crabtree has the kind of endurance and strength to maintain his speed throughout the game, and that he makes plays with the game on the line in the fourth quarter.

“The difference between a 4.7 and a 4.5 (is this),” Irvin said, quickly snapping his fingers twice. “You can barely get it on your hands if you pressed your thumb and pressed it again. … And we discount game speed, and we discount strength.

“I don’t just want to know your speed in the first quarter. I want to know your speed in the fourth quarter because I’m not winning any games in the first quarter. This guy, Michael Crabtree has fourth quarter speed.”

He also said Crabtree would be a good fit in the West Coast offense because of his ability to run after the catch, and compared Crabtree’s running ability to Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens, who both played in the West Coast offense in San Francisco. Irvin joked that he wished he would have had a chance to play in the West Coast offense, but couldn’t look back with too much disappointment because he has three Super Bowl rings.

“That system fits,” Irvin said. “That’s a timing system that allows him to put the ball in his hands as early as you can and let him go do what he can do with it. And you know he has some RAC ability -- some run after catch. So for him, that’s a great system.”

Irvin talked about the reality TV show he’ll host, which pits six receivers against six defensive backs for a chance to earn a spot on the Dallas Cowboys’ 80-man training camp roster.


With Crabtree not running a 40 at the Combine, and Michael Irvin, a family friend downplaying "40-speed" proves that Crabtree's 40 time is a legitimate, real issue, which will put into serious doubt Crabtree going in the Top-4. Irvin specifically brings up "4.7" as a comparison in the interview as if Crabtree is already preparing for damage control and downplaying his inevitable time. This, and Crabtree's unwillingness to compete at the Combine to hide the fact, magnify his issues.

Crabtree not running a 40-time means he is trying to protect his Top-4 draft status. Calvin Johnson solidified his by running it.

Irvin makes valid points about game speed and systems (and does the job by matching Crabtree's skill set to Seattle's offense), but with a Top-4 pick and the amount of guaranteed money involved with that type of pick, a team does not want to have many, if any concerns with their player selected.

[Gay Ork Wang]

40-times are overrated.

[SuperKevin]

Not a big deal. I have a feeling all the teams interested in Crabtree already know he's not a burner. After seeing Larry Fitzgerald run past the Steelers secondary last night it's not too much of an issue

[tjsunstein]

How many projected top-5 players DO run their 40 at the combine?

Being that most are usually QBs and O-Lineman, they don't matter that much but if I had to guess with the RBs/WRs, I would say 30 percent..maybe. Last year McFadden was a top 5 prospect whose stock relied on his time. Did he run? I dont remember but something tells me he did. There was Calvin before him and he ran last second if I remember. You could consider Peterson a top 5 prospect that year as well. Did he run? Regardless if they did or not they still went off the board relatively quick.

[Sniper]

Being that most are usually QBs and O-Lineman, they don't matter that much but if I had to guess with the RBs/WRs, I would say 30 percent..maybe. Last year McFadden was a top 5 prospect whose stock relied on his time. Did he run? I dont remember but something tells me he did. There was Calvin before him and he ran last second if I remember. You could consider Peterson a top 5 prospect that year as well. Did he run? Regardless if they did or not they still went off the board relatively quick.

I think McFadden ran a 4.33 at the Combine. Peterson ran a 4.4 flat.

[bored of education]

I think McFadden ran a 4.33 at the Combine. Peterson ran a 4.4 flat.

I thought Peterson ran a 4.38 or something. But I maybe wrong, for the 4th time ever.

[Biscuit]

If 40 time was not an issue, Crabtree would run it at the Combine. Crabtree would prove to scouts he is willing to "compete" at the Combine and not "hide" to protect his draft status.

Larry Fitzgerald ran between 4.48 and 4.51 in the 40... fastest clock was 4.46 and the slowest was 4.54 at the Combine. Larry Fitzgerald, like Calvin Johnson competed at the Combine by running the 40.

Larry Fitzgerald was also drafted by Denis Green who knows his family and has known him since he was a ball boy with the Vikings, saw him catching passes from the JUGS machine as a kid. Jim Mora does not have that same relationship with Crabtree and Jim Mora has a pedigree as a DB coach. Jim Mora does know that Crabtree played in a spread offense and put up those numbers.

Teams want all question marks answered about players they select early in the draft process, the sooner those questions are answered the better.

[Sniper]

I thought Peterson ran a 4.38 or something. But I maybe wrong, for the 4th time ever.

Wiki has it at 4.4 flat. Take that FWIW.

[Sniper]

Jim Mora does know that Crabtree played in a spread offense and put up those numbers.

What's your point about spread offenses?

[Biscuit]

What's your point about spread offenses?

3, 4, or 5-receiver sets spreads defenses thin. Such an offense contributes to exaggerated offensive statistics.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Hey dow, fo really, dude dont need to be runnin when everyone thinks hes a top five pick, boi.

Nows if you bigs in the pants, you dont be showing girls da goods if dey aint bought you some tanning sessions, right?

Same thing

Not now chief, im in the fu*kin zone!!! POWER BARS!!

[Sniper]

3, 4, or 5-receiver sets spreads defenses thin. Such an offense contributes to exaggerated offensive statistics.

Not really. Team, maybe. Not individual. The ball gets spread around more. TTU had three guys with at least 74 catches and had seven guys with at least 35 catches.

[Biscuit]

Yes, really. Excellent players will put up impressive statistics in any offense they play in. Crabtree is an excellent player. Being in a spread can and will exaggerate individual statistics because, like in Crabtree's case, receivers will be faced with fewer double teams and bumps at the line (as they will see in the NFL) as the defensive secondary is spread out wider to account for all receiving options on the field, consistently on every down.

[Sniper]

Yes, really. Excellent players will put up impressive statistics in any offense they play in. Crabtree is an excellent player. Being in a spread exaggerates individual statistics because, like in Crabtree's case, receivers will be faced with fewer double teams and bumps at the line as the defensive secondary is spread out wider to account for all receiving options on the field.

Crabtree gets doubled almost every play.

[Biscuit]

Crabtree gets doubled almost every play.

No he was not. Was he ever doubled, yes. Was he doubled on "almost every play", of course not.

[tjsunstein]

I think he was more shadowed by the overtop safety more than strictly doubled. Maybe they were cheating his way or something but in an offense like that it is really hard to double one guy when there are, at times, 3 or 4 other WRs on the field.

[LonghornsLegend]

If 40 time was not an issue, Crabtree would run it at the Combine. Crabtree would prove to scouts he is willing to "compete" at the Combine and not "hide" to protect his draft status.

Larry Fitzgerald ran between 4.48 and 4.51 in the 40... fastest clock was 4.46 and the slowest was 4.54 at the Combine. Larry Fitzgerald, like Calvin Johnson competed at the Combine by running the 40.

Larry Fitzgerald was also drafted by Denis Green who knows his family and has known him since he was a ball boy with the Vikings, saw him catching passes from the JUGS machine as a kid. Jim Mora does not have that same relationship with Crabtree and Jim Mora has a pedigree as a DB coach. Jim Mora does know that Crabtree played in a spread offense and put up those numbers.

Teams want all question marks answered about players they select early in the draft process, the sooner those questions are answered the better.


And Reggie Bush didn't run at the combines because he was too slow right? People always want to over exaggerate this time of year, it doesn't matter what he runs in the 40, it may make the difference between him going to Seattle to San Fran but it not's going to matter much more then that...Crabtree doesn't run a 4.7, your digging way too hard from that Michael Irvin article for clues.


And as far as Calvin, originally he announced he wasn't running the 40 either, and decided to the day of the combine when he was already there, but his intentions were to not run either.

[Thunder&Lightning]

Smart move, have no problem with it. He will run in 4.5's. If he ran a in the 4.4's his stock would skirocket.

[Biscuit]

And Reggie Bush didn't run at the combines because he was too slow right?

No, Reggie Bush, RB didn't run at the Combine. Are you implying Michael Crabtree, WR will run a 4.33 on the USC speed track? If not, your Bush point is moot.

People always want to over exaggerate this time of year, it doesn't matter what he runs in the 40, it may make the difference between him going to Seattle to San Fran but it not's going to matter much more then that...Crabtree doesn't run a 4.7, your digging way too hard from that Michael Irvin article for clues.

Crabtree going from Seattle (#4) to San Fran (#10) means a lot to him, his agent and to the dollar value on his rookie contract. Hence, this is why Crabtree's handlers (like Irvin) are coming out and downplaying the importance of a 40-time. I'm not implying he will run a 4.7, but that his people are downplaying speed, is what is most telling. Did Calvin Johnson's and Reggie Bush's people downplay speed before the Combine? No.

And as far as Calvin, originally he announced he wasn't running the 40 either, and decided to the day of the combine when he was already there, but his intentions were to not run either.

But Calvin did at the end of the day, if Crabtree does also, good for him he shows he wants to compete, leave no stone unturned, and is not protecting his draft status, Calvin built the drama and ran at the Combine.

Crabtree is an excellent talent, him not running a 40 at the Combine will not help him and only delays the inevitable.

[LonghornsLegend]

No, Reggie Bush, RB didn't run at the Combine. Are you implying Michael Crabtree, WR will run a 4.33 on the USC speed track? If not, your Bush point is moot.


No, it's not moot when you said this earlier:




If 40 time was not an issue, Crabtree would run it at the Combine.



So you see how you contradict yourself, you just said if the 40 wasn't an issue he would just run, yet Bush's 40 time has never been an issue and chose not to run.



Crabtree going from Seattle (#4) to San Fran (#10) means a lot to him, his agent and to the dollar value on his rookie contract. Hence, this is why Crabtree's handlers (like Irvin) are coming out and downplaying the importance of a 40-time. I'm not implying he will run a 4.7, but that his people are downplaying speed, is what is most telling. Did Calvin Johnson's and Reggie Bush's people downplay speed before the Combine? No.


Again, your taking too much from that article and making your own assumptions from it...Did you ever stop to think Irvin doesn't care much about the 40 because he never ran a fast 40 himself? Irvin isn't one of Crabtree's "people", he's just a mentor to a young WR and was giving his opinion on the 40 yard dash in general, and you can't blame him because he was a very sucessful WR with marginal straight end speed, but people get so caught up in this stuff during spring.


Irvin only ran a 4.55 himself (http://www.cowboysplus.com/classic/webspecials/michaelirvin/042588irvin.html), so his comments make sense, I would expect Jerry Rice to make the same type of comments also, you can't expect anyone to believe because Irvin said the 40 is overrated people are going to assume Crabtree is slower then suspected.



Crabtree is an excellent talent, him not running a 40 at the Combine will not help him


But it won't hurt him, and that's all that matters when your a potential top 5 pick.

[Saints-Tigers]

Calvin ran because when he showed up at the combine about 10 pounds over what he was expected(240 as opposed to 230-235) they started to question if he was out of shape and not working hard, so he said "eff this ****" and Megatron'd that ho.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

We may hate it and think he's hiding his time, but it's an intelligent move for him. You think he isn't aware of what might happen since Maclin, DHB, and Harvin will all run in the 4.3's and Crabs runs in the 4.5-4.6 range.

[wonderbredd24]

It's fabricated because training to run a 40 yard dash isn't the same as training to maintain a better top end speed, which is why I asked if he'd continue to speed train in order to maintain it. He won't hold on to that added speed unless he continues to train it, which is unlikely considering how busy he'll be with the standard NFL offseason programs. You don't keep your speed if you stop speed training. Same with strength. Same with endurance.

It's like cramming the night before a test. You try to memorize as much as you can in order to pass the test. But, odds are, you won't retain the majority of that information afterwards. You're not getting any smarter over the long haul. All you did was BS your way into a passing test score. Same concept.

Considering how much focus is put on the start of the 40 in how to maximize your speed out of the stance, this is exactly true.

Learning to run the 40 is different from getting faster. I have little doubt he's working on both, but he can make a much larger difference more quickly learning the 40 as opposed to just trying to get faster

[Biscuit]

No, it's not moot when you said this earlier:

So you see how you contradict yourself, you just said if the 40 wasn't an issue he would just run, yet Bush's 40 time has never been an issue and chose not to run.

Yes it is moot, you use Reggie Bush as your example. Bush's speed was never an issue. Crabtree's is. If Michael Crabtree and his handlers felt that his 40 was not an issue, then he like Reggie Bush could skip the combine and run a 4.33 (or very impressive time). Crabtree is protecting his draft stock. If he runs a 4.33 like Reggie Bush as you use in his example (or very impressive time), good for him he will remove current doubts that will linger until then. A better comparison is Fitzgerald and Calvin, WRs who in recent years went Top-5. Why not use WR Mike Williams from USC who also had questions about his speed and chose not to run.

Again, your taking too much from that article and making your own assumptions from it...Did you ever stop to think Irvin doesn't care much about the 40 because he never ran a fast 40 himself? Irvin isn't one of Crabtree's "people", he's just a mentor to a young WR and was giving his opinion on the 40 yard dash in general, and you can't blame him because he was a very sucessful WR with marginal straight end speed, but people get so caught up in this stuff during spring.

Irvin only ran a 4.55 himself (http://www.cowboysplus.com/classic/webspecials/michaelirvin/042588irvin.html), so his comments make sense, I would expect Jerry Rice to make the same type of comments also, you can't expect anyone to believe because Irvin said the 40 is overrated people are going to assume Crabtree is slower then suspected.

I'm not going to argue why Irvin is speaking on his behalf and what are his intentions as a friend of the Crabtree family. Neither he, nor Rice were Top-4 picks. If Crabtree even has a fraction of their careers, great for him! Time will tell. If Irvin didn't care about 40 times, it would not have been noted in the context of Crabtree. You see it that way, I see it the other way.

It's not just about the 40-time solely, it's also the point of him choosing not to run at the Combine. Scouts want players out of their comfort zone and compete against other players on the day of the Combine, especially when there are question marks about, such combine activities like speed. This is Top-4 guaranteed money teams are risking.

As you incorrectly state, him being drafted by Seattle (at #4) or San Fran (ay #10) does matter to his bank account. Crabtree is doing what he can to control his draft process to ensure he goes earlier rather then later.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Honestly as long as he runs under 4.6 I don't think his draft stock is changed at all. I have seen enough game film of him to be convinced he will be a stud.

[Biscuit]

Honestly as long as he runs under 4.6 I don't think his draft stock is changed at all. I have seen enough game film of him to be convinced he will be a stud.

I agree, I think he will be an excellent player. Crabtree should just compete at the Combine and run a 40 and remove any doubts. It is intelligent, from a financial stand point, to not run, he is protecting his status by controlling the environment he competes in. Scouts will take note.

[LonghornsLegend]

As you incorrectly state, him being drafted by Seattle (at #4) or San Fran (ay #10) does matter to his bank account. Crabtree is doing what he can to control his draft process to ensure he goes earlier rather then later.

Read again, I never said it wouldn't matter if he was drafted at #4 or #10, I said his 40 time wouldn't make him fall past that point, obviously there is a huge difference in guaranteed money I realize that but I just feel your looking too much into the whole "oh no he's not running his 40 time to panic".


Teams don't have to see a guy at the combines to draft him in the top 5, they would like to, but if stafford doesn't throw and sanchez does that doesn't mean Stafford won't go first, same with Crabtree as he could not work out one drill at the combines and still be the first WR taken.


Like I said don't be surprised if some other guys back out too, the point about Bush wasn't implying Crabtree could be as fast, it was to say that just because someone doesn't run at the combines doesn't mean they are incredibly slow.

[Favre4]

Crabtree had one game in his college career with less than 7 catches. That is ridiculous.

Another thing. Fitz's main knock was his speed, yet he looked pretty fast after he caught that pass late in the super bowl last night. Crabtree is going to be more than fine.

[Iamcanadian]

Pro football is a business and most prospects would probably run at the combine if it was left up to them. However, the reality is that their agents often decide whether to run or not and the player just does what his agent tells him to do.
Crabtree's 40 time will decide his fate at his pro day, if he can run a 4.50 or better, he has a shot at the top 5, if he's slower say in the 4.55 range, he might still hang on in the top 5 but I seriously doubt it. Teams drafting in the top 5 are looking for everything in a prospect including elite speed especially for a WR. If he runs in the 4.60 range he'll drop and could go anywhere after the top 10. The track he runs on won't fool scouts and GM's one bit. You can bet that they have a + or - rating on every college track and will adjust his time according to their chart.
Crabtree has great athletic ability but in the pros it is all about the ability to get separation and Irvin's example of the difference between a 4.70 and a 4.50 is completely not true. The .2 difference equates to 6 feet on a long pass pattern, .1 equates to 3 feet. Now most NFL CB's run in the 4.35- 4.45 range and if a WR runs a 4.70, he will be giving up to 9 feet on a deep pattern and if you don't think that will limit a WR's effectiveness in the NFL, your don't know what you are talking about.
Also the talk about speed at the beginning of a game vs speed at the end of a game rarely comes into play in the NFL because most starting CB's have already proved they can maintain their speed for the whole game. Sure if a scout or GM sees on film that a prospective WR or a CB cannot maintain their speed for an entire game, they will get knocked down on draft day but starters in the NFL are already past that worry.
The facts are simple and every GM understands them. 90+% of All Pro WR's since the game became a professional sport, have elite speed and if your looking at a WR in the draft and he doesn't have elite speed, he only has a 10% chance for greatness vs a 90% chance at failure. With those kind of odds, there probably isn't more than 1 or 2 GM's who might take the risk but the vast majority of GM's will not draft them anywhere near the top 10 never mind the top 5. It is just too big a risk unless the draft year you fall in is so weak that they will put aside risk and draft a weaker prospect since there aren't any better ones anyways..
Pro GM's if interviewed will say they place another question mark beside someone who doesn't workout at the combine but the reality is it hasn't made much of a difference in the past when top prospects skip the combine and it won't make much of a difference today. If you are the real deal, you will be drafted high and if you aren't you will fall on your pro day.
If the rumors are true that Crabtree cannot get below 4.55 and may even run closer to a 4.60, then he's not going top 10 maybe not even top 15-20 unless this draft year turns out to be a rather weak draft. With the # of top WR prospects in this draft who are reported to run in the 4.2 to 4.35 range, Crabtree could suffer a significant drop in draft if scouts and GM's see him struggle to reach 4.55. That is the reality of the draft whether you like it or not.

[gpngc]

Crabtree had one game in his college career with less than 7 catches. That is ridiculous.

Another thing. Fitz's main knock was his speed, yet he looked pretty fast after he caught that pass late in the super bowl last night. Crabtree is going to be more than fine.

Yes.

Look at his #s in his first three collegiate games. I don't care what kind of offense you play in- if you do this in your first action at the 1A level- you are a special player:

@ Virginia: 9 rec, 101 yds, 1 td
Oklahoma: 12 rec, 154 yds, 1 td
@ Texas: 9 rec, 195 yds, 2 td

WTF!?

If you went through every single game of his career and subtracted three catches, 20 yards, and a touchdown he would still have the most impressive production of all the receivers in this draft class.

I don't think anything at all will happen to his stock unless he runs below a 4.48 or above a 4.62. I read the name "Mike Williams" and I have to immediately point out that his name should probably not ever be mentioned in a Crabtree thread because Tree is about six million times quicker than Mike Williams ever was.

His quickness is extremely underrated and probably more important than straight-line speed.

I am just praying the Rams stick to OT and the Chiefs fall in love with Sanchez or Curry.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I think McFadden ran a 4.33 at the Combine. Peterson ran a 4.4 flat.

Those were their average times. Think Peterson's fastest time was 4.38 and McFadden's fastest was 4.27.

We all like it when top prospects work out at the combine in some detail, but it's hard to expect. It can really lose some players money.

[nhlkdog411]

Why is it fabricated? He's still training to get faster, this is nothing different then what every single skill position player does every off-season, the goal is to become as fast as you can.

It's fabricated just like everyone else's is because all they're training for is 1 specific running event/distance which means as soon as they stop doing it and start training for football again they'll be slower.

[katnip]

It could be good or not... Or just have his stock stay the same.

[holt_bruce81]

Not really a big deal and not really a big surprise. He'll still be a top 5 pick regardless.

[PossumBoy9]

Shocking!
'
A bit disappointing, but pretty well expected.

Certainly expected....considering he ended the season with a high ankle sprain.

[SuperKevin]

It could be good or not... Or just have his stock stay the same.

Way to cover all possible outcomes in what may be the most useless post in NFLDC history. And yes I read the Mr. Guido posts

[Flyboy]

I don't think anyone is really surprised by this in the least.

[LonghornsLegend]

It's fabricated just like everyone else's is because all they're training for is 1 specific running event/distance which means as soon as they stop doing it and start training for football again they'll be slower.

No, you guys that have never played football before or trained really should look into this stuff more.


First off, read up on what goes on at Michael Johnson's speed training facility that's in Dallas: http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/jun/07/michael-johnson-opens-performance-training-center-/


Everyone seems to think that he's just learning how to run a 40 really fast, and that's it, when in reality he's training to be more explosive in general, it's not like he's just going to get slower once he stops doing the training.


Crabtree isn't the first guy who worked with Michael Johnson either, Felix Jones and Mcfadden both trained with him last year to get their 40 times shaved down and improve agility, LT worked with him out of TCU, and countless others.


So for the record most of these guys aren't training for "1 specific training event", just because they are going through drills that improve agility and acceleration relate to a faster 40 doesn't mean their doing drills specifically for a 40 yard dash and it can't relate anyway else.


Lots of guys do speed training in the off-season, it's not like you just get slower as soon as you stop the training, that's not the way your muscles work.

[Zyro_1014]

doesnt surprise me, but i dont think it hurts him

[Abaddon]

What ?? It's not "fabricated", that word means made up in the sense that your implying that he's not getting faster at all.

As a football player, he won't be any faster. What he's doing is gaining a temporary increase to his timed speed to make his superficial 40 time more aesthetically pleasing. That's all. Thus, fabricated. Not real.

For the record why are you acting like he's the only player who trains to run a fast 40?

At what point did I imply that? Please be specific.

[Dirt McGirt]

The guy finished the season with a high ankle sprain. He has been recovering from this injury, which is supposed to be a very painful injury that lingers. His draft prep is/was most likely behind schedule as a result. I see no problem with this.

[jdcozart]

If I was a projected Top 10 pick that ran a 4.6 I'd probably chicken out too!

[Dirt McGirt]

If 40 time was not an issue, Crabtree would run it at the Combine. Crabtree would prove to scouts he is willing to "compete" at the Combine and not "hide" to protect his draft status.

Larry Fitzgerald ran between 4.48 and 4.51 in the 40... fastest clock was 4.46 and the slowest was 4.54 at the Combine. Larry Fitzgerald, like Calvin Johnson competed at the Combine by running the 40.

Larry Fitzgerald was also drafted by Denis Green who knows his family and has known him since he was a ball boy with the Vikings, saw him catching passes from the JUGS machine as a kid. Jim Mora does not have that same relationship with Crabtree and Jim Mora has a pedigree as a DB coach. Jim Mora does know that Crabtree played in a spread offense and put up those numbers.

Teams want all question marks answered about players they select early in the draft process, the sooner those questions are answered the better.

Fitz ran a 4.61 at the combine, you are quoting his pro-day times.

[619]

Not really a big deal and not really a big surprise. He'll still be a top 5 pick regardless.

That's pretty much my thinking here. Fitz ran a low 4.6 I think and Crabs is probably a bit faster.

[LonghornsLegend]

As a football player, he won't be any faster.


Have you ever played football before? You don't train in the off-season to get more explosive(or whatever training regimen you go through), and then as soon as football season starts you lose any new muscle growth you have that made you faster.


Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Figure out what goes on when these guys train:


Finally, and this is the most impressive part of the facility, is the Nike Sensory Sports Training room. Looking like something straight out of Brave New World, the Nike SST center is a circuit training room that specializes in the eye and the mind. Upon entering a training program at the MJPC, every athlete will go through a seven-part test to assess their visual acuity, reaction time, and eye-body coordination. With the exception of the Nike's own training center, McKinney is the only other site in the country to house the SST testing and training facilities.

All three components of the MJPC will work in conjunction to improve the basic athletic skills of speed, strength, agility, and stamina.


So no, he's not just training to run the 40 yard dash for the 94759348398234 time, and YES he will be faster, that's the way the NFL works if you train...How else do you think guys get faster? When your building new fast twitch muscles to improve your speed that just doesn't disappear when it's football season again.


That's the last time I'll try and explain, since you guys think building new muscle is "fabricated" :rolleyes:

[Sniper]

As a football player, he won't be any faster. What he's doing is gaining a temporary increase to his timed speed to make his superficial 40 time more aesthetically pleasing. That's all. Thus, fabricated. Not real.

Have you ever heard of crazy things like plyometrics, weighted sprints and explosive lifts?

[Fogcity_faithful]

For Abaddon-get a clue. I was never a football player, soccer and swimming. But the truch remains the same. You train for something like that, and it sticks with you. I haven't competed or trained in swimming in years, put me in a pool and I can swim close to my old times, now i hurl on the deck. I am not getting faster without the training, i like the stamina now. I went through my off-season workouts, and during the season, guess what, they were incorporated into those ones too. So if he is training to become faster, stronger or whatever else down there, you can bet that he sticks with it.
With that stated, I think the high ankle sprain is the main reason for not running. I agree with the statements that too much stock is put into these guys running in a straight line in shorts and t-shirts, guess what not how you play ball. I dont remember who pointed it out that Troy Williamson ran exceptionally well, and no casual fan knows who he is. Irvin, and Rice didnt run well, werent first overall picks. TO was a 6th round pick. He doesnt have to be drafted high to be great, just to make a grip of cash he doesnt really deserve yet.
I dont care what his 40 time is going to be, I would like him on my team, we have more pressing needs, but I would still want him to dress in red and gold

[Abaddon]

Have you ever played football before? You don't train in the off-season to get more explosive(or whatever training regimen you go through), and then as soon as football season starts you lose any new muscle growth you have that made you faster.


Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? Figure out what goes on when these guys train:





So no, he's not just training to run the 40 yard dash for the 94759348398234 time, and YES he will be faster, that's the way the NFL works if you train...How else do you think guys get faster? When your building new fast twitch muscles to improve your speed that just doesn't disappear when it's football season again.


That's the last time I'll try and explain, since you guys think building new muscle is "fabricated" :rolleyes:

Thanks for the lesson, Al. Tell me again about the time you scored 4 touchdowns in a single game. You're my hero and stuff.

[Abaddon]

For Abaddon-get a clue. I was never a football player, soccer and swimming. But the truch remains the same. You train for something like that, and it sticks with you.

Not if you don't continue to train it, it doesn't. If he continues to train his speed and explosion, then of course he'll continue to improve. But, like I asked in my original post, will he continue to train these things on top of the normal, brutal, NFL offseason program? Maybe, maybe not.

Simple people crack me up.