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ElectricEye
02-05-2009, 12:41 AM
Now that the draft is coming up, let's talk other means of talent acquisition.

There's a couple of guys out there/on the block who I'm interested in. Part of me kind of wants in on the Lito Sheppard game. He's still out there by the sounds of it and if the price is right I think he could be a real nice get for us. It would be pretty sweet given the fact we lost Asante to the Eagles. We might not even have to part ways with one of our draft picks. He's going to get cut if they don't trade him and his stock is going to be waaaaay down. Might not be a bad guy to take a chance on.

Domonique Foxworth intrigues me a bit as well. He's capable of starting. Played real well last year. Another corner who I think we should be in on if the price is right.

Ultimately though, I don't we'll be all that active here. We have a few needs that the draft is more than capable or filling up. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to pull off some kind of move though, albeit a minor one.

Ultimately though, I think things will be relatively quiet on this front. We have a bit of wiggle room at $21M under the cap, but that figuring is deceiving given the Cassel situation. I doubt we spend much of that extra cash.

FlyingElvis
02-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Lito's stock may be fairly low, but there's a good reason for that. He basically turned into a ***** when he lost the starting role and chose to not perform. That is a tough guy to bring in when you have 3 younger CBs competing with him. It's unlikely he'll sign a one year deal, and then we're stuck with a bum if Hobbs/Wheatley/Wilhite win the starting job(s). Pass on Lito, thanks.

ElectricEye
02-05-2009, 11:22 AM
Yeah, he did turn into a real douche once it looked like he wasn't going to start. That much is true. Not the type of presence I would want to have on the team at all. Don't think there would be much competition between him and our players though, Lito is a lot better than anybody we have on our roster at corner. Still, probably not the best idea. Tempting due to his talent level though.

FlyingElvis
02-05-2009, 11:31 AM
Probably right, but the coaching staff clearly love Hobbs and the jury is still out on Wheatley b/c of his injury. So is it a risk worth taking? IDK.

I would like to see another WR coming to town. It's still shocking to me that Chad Jackson couldn't put together enough of an effort to even make the roster. TJ would be nice, but I'm not sure he can become a true #1 as a successor to Moss. But with a stud slot guy like Welker it might work.

Suggs. I doubt BMore lets him go anywhere, and I would like to see the development of the young LBs, but bringing in a guy like him would still be nice.

AntoinCD
02-05-2009, 11:51 AM
If he wasn't priced too high I wouldn't mind either Foxworth or McFadden through FA. Housh would be far too pricey to even think about but would be ridiculous in a Pats uniform. Another player I would think about would be Vernon Carey.

FlyingElvis
02-05-2009, 11:57 AM
Carey would be nice, too. But OT carries a price tag similar to WR. Housh & Carey are probably both pipe dreams.

ElectricEye
02-05-2009, 09:28 PM
If he wasn't priced too high I wouldn't mind either Foxworth or McFadden through FA. Housh would be far too pricey to even think about but would be ridiculous in a Pats uniform. Another player I would think about would be Vernon Carey.

Vernon Carey is one I didn't think about. I would love to get our hands on him. Just what we need on the right side of the line.

proshoota25
02-05-2009, 09:38 PM
vernon carey would be a nice addition..... i doubt we will be active in free agency or through trades unless its someone who clearly would excell in our system

ElectricEye
02-06-2009, 12:00 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if we went after a guy or two in free agency, but no major acquisitions. The trade thing could be pretty big with Cassel situation now though, but I doubt it's for players.

FlyingElvis
02-06-2009, 09:00 AM
So I posted this in the "Gonzales still wants a trade" thread, but I'm curious what you guys think:

To hell with his age. He has a few more years in him. That's what GOATs do.

Gonzo & KC round 2 (34) & 2010 conditional 2nd or 1st based on
Matt Cassel!! and Pats round 2 (58)

I can't see NE wanting the Chiefs 1st round #3 overall b/c it's too costly. But the conditional 2010 pick gives NE the opportunity to cash in on Cassell with a number 1 pick that is less likely to be a top 5 pick.

I figure it basically works out as Cassel for a 2nd & conditional 1st/2nd and Gonzo for a 2nd, which is fair for both teams. We still get the value for Cassel and get the GOAT at TE.
I'm not sure KC would want or have interest in a QB, but . . .

Thoughts?

ElectricEye
02-06-2009, 09:48 AM
It all depends on how Pioli feels about Thigpen and furthermore....if he thinks Cassel can hold up in Kansas City. That would be an awfully competitive deal though and I think Gonzo would give our offense a massive boost. Doubt anyone wants to throw players in though. It'll still be interesting to see just what other teams think of Cassel. The prospect of getting a first rounder this year sounds really good right now.

FlyingElvis
02-06-2009, 10:03 AM
I'd be surprised if Pioli decides to pursue Cassel after Thigpen played so well, I just want Tony the G. lol

I'd love to see an extra first this year, just not a top 10 b/c of the expense. With this years overall draft depth - especially at LB, S, and O line - I'd be happy to see even a 2nd/3rd this year and another 2nd next year. But I think he's worth more and will be surprised if NE doesn't get a 1st out of him.

I saw someone post that next years picks are valued lower, along the lines of 2010 1sr rounder = 2009 2nd rounder. If that is true it should be a 1st rounder next year if a Cassel trade was 2009 2nd & 3rd and a 2010 pick, right?

My knowledge of the values on draft picks is . . . spotty at best, and the overall player pool is even worse b/c I don't watch much college football. So feel free to correct anything I get wrong.

ElectricEye
02-06-2009, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't want a top ten pick either. I don't think we have much to worry about though. Nobody in the top ten is going to be willing to give up the pick for Cassel without getting our first in return and I don't think we're exactly excited to move up in that range as well.

As far as the value system goes, yeah, that's a rough approximation, but that's all pick values ever are. A first rounder from a team next year is interesting because the situation with San Fransisco ended up working out perfectly for us last year.

The least I'm hoping for out of all of this is we get a later first round pick, maybe from the Vikings. That would allow us to take a corner and then fill a gap at either safety or linebacker. If all of this resulted in us getting Alphonso Smith and then maybe Clay Matthews, that would be pretty damned sweet. Anything else is just gravy.

FlyingElvis
02-06-2009, 11:09 AM
That's exactly what I was thinking with 2nd this year and a conditional first rounder next year.

If Cassel does well and the team is successful the 1st round pick would likely be #20 or later. If they crap out and it's a 2nd rounder we get a 35-40 overall. A solid pick either way without having to worry about the overpaid top 10 pick.

For the draft this year a late 1st (Minnesota) or an early 2nd (KC) would be great. But I agree with you that 1st and 2nd round picks this year is a steep price for any team to pay. Maybe a 1/3/3 would be more acceptable w/a 3rd rounder from next year.

Honestly, I'd take just about any combo that returns us a 1st round pick for a guy drafted in round 7. Otherwise it has to at least match the Schaub deal. Vikes 2nd (#54) and next year's 2nd plus we swap 1st and move up one spot works for me!!

ElectricEye
02-06-2009, 11:20 AM
Honestly, I'd take just about any combo that returns us a 1st round pick for a guy drafted in round 7. Otherwise it has to at least match the Schaub deal. Vikes 2nd (#54) and next year's 2nd plus we swap 1st and move up one spot works for me!!

Which would be more than fair given Cassel has actually started a full season.

Don Vito
02-06-2009, 04:07 PM
I wouldn't want a top ten pick either.

We really don't need a top 10 pick, but if we could trade Cassel for the Chiefs pick there would be some serious talents at positions where we could use some help (Curry, Orakpo, Jenkins, Monroe/Oher/Smith/Smith). If Pioli wants Cassel and is willing to give that pick up I would pull the trigger if Brady is ready to go, that would just be too good to pass up.

As far as FA goes, there are a ton of guys I would love to add but you never know with this staff. They could be in the 2007 load up on veterans mode or they might just want to build through the draft (more likely). I would love to see us one of the Ravens linebackers, Vernon Carey, Lito Sheppard, and a number of other guys if the staff were looking to grab some FAs.

Bostonsportlova
02-08-2009, 05:16 PM
Just a couple guys I would like to trade, sign, and daft.


Chad Johnson
"Tell Coach I said I love him. I had a chance to talk to him and pick his brain a little bit down at the Pro Bowl in Hawaii this past season, and he's a great coach a great person to be around. I see why they're so successful down in New England. To have someone like that around at all times is good."

Probably not very realistic, but trading for Chad Johnson would be a very interesting move. Hey i thought trading for Randy Moss was not realistic. Clearly Johnson would love to come to New Endgland and wants out of Cinny. Cinny is rebuilding, and Johnson had a down year this year, so he wouldnt cost as much.

Sean Jones
He had 2 great seasons in 2006 and 2007. He got his knee banged up and had a so-so season in 2008, but i think he is a player the pats should take a chance on. He played with the Browns, so he has been in the same system the pats run.

Alphonso Smith
Smith has great speed, good instincts, tough, and confident. The only knock against him is the lack of height and strength. That is a very similar scouting report to every cornerback that Bill drafts. Although he hasnt drafted a corner in the first round, everyone said he wouldnt draft a lb last year but he never did. Well i feel this year is different like last.

ElectricEye
02-08-2009, 09:10 PM
Sean Jones
He had 2 great seasons in 2006 and 2007. He got his knee banged up and had a so-so season in 2008, but i think he is a player the pats should take a chance on. He played with the Browns, so he has been in the same system the pats run.


That's an interesting name. If he's healthy enough, he could keep us from spending a draft pick on a strong safety. Didn't know he was available. Really wouldn't mind picking him up.

HellonEarth84
02-09-2009, 01:32 AM
If we make any sort of splash in Free Agency, I hope its on a DB.

LB and OLine have a blend of youth and experience. Our DB's are all very young though with Hobbs, Meriweather, Sanders, Wheatley, Wilhite all still playing on their rookie contracts. Would rather have someone who's been in the league a few years than drafting another rookie here.

Sean Jones, Atogwe, Jabari Greer...

ElectricEye
02-09-2009, 11:12 AM
It would have to be cheap. We're like 7 mill under the cap thanks to the Cassel situation. If we don't get a deal done I don't think we see any signings.

Bostonsportlova
02-09-2009, 11:17 AM
Unless they think Brady is not going to be ready by the first game, I dont see them keeping Cassel. As a result of my postive I think Cassel will be gone and we have a couple extra picks this year or next year with a lot more cap room to sign free agents.

Brent
02-15-2009, 07:54 PM
Is there a chance that James Sanders leaves the team in FA or does he want to come back?

Bigburt63
02-15-2009, 09:40 PM
I would say he's probably 60-40 to come back. I doubt the patriots will give him any big type of contract as he is best suited for a backup/rotational type of player. That being said, we have only one legitimate safety on our roster (Meriweather) and since he knows the system and what not, I could see the patriots trying to bring him back.

ElectricEye
02-15-2009, 09:46 PM
It depends on if we're able to land an upgrade or not. He's not suited for being a full time starter for anyone. He would be a nice depth player to have around if we could pick up a fulltime starter, but the price probably wouldn't be right.

Bigburt63
02-15-2009, 09:52 PM
Ya thats what I'm saying, just that we might be more inclined to pay a little more for him because we have 0 depth at safety right now. I personally want to draft a safety to start next to Meriweather, but I feel as though they will sign a veteran (Dawkins would be nice) to come in and play.

ElectricEye
02-15-2009, 10:12 PM
Dawkins scares me. I think he has maybe one or two years left in him, good ones as well...but I don't think leaving the Eagles would be very smart for him. Sean Jones would be my ideal guy. Bit of an upgrade over Sanders and will probably cost as much. Drafting a safety in the second depending on who is there wouldn't be a bad idea either. Rashad Johnson is an interesting option to me. Merriweather can play the strong spot even if it's not an ideal fit, and Johnson would give us some playmaking ability we're currently lacking.

Bigburt63
02-15-2009, 10:36 PM
Delmas, Chung, Moore, or Johnson would be great options. I guess the pats are looking really hard at Johnson, even considering 1st round ( I was talking about this with RoP the other day). We NEED a safety in the worst way this offseason. I hate to say it but Harrison is likely done.

ElectricEye
02-15-2009, 11:21 PM
Delmas, Chung, Moore, or Johnson would be great options. I guess the pats are looking really hard at Johnson, even considering 1st round ( I was talking about this with RoP the other day). We NEED a safety in the worst way this offseason. I hate to say it but Harrison is likely done.

I'm really going to miss Rodney. He was my favorite defensive player for his first couple years here. He played the game as hard as they come, albeit a bit dirty and was never afraid of laying a guy out.

Out of those guys, I think Delmas and Johnson would be the best options. I'm not all that enthused about Chung. He's a little small for a strong safety and he's not particularly fluid in coverage. Solid overall game for a defensive back, but he doesn't do anything great besides tackle. Moore is interesting, but the Roy Williams(bad years) comparisons are out there. Bit of validity to that as well.

Johnson wouldn't be the best first round pick in the world, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. He has the entire Saban thing going for him. He would probably both fit and pickup our defense quickly and we know he's well coached.

HellonEarth84
02-17-2009, 02:30 PM
Id Look at some DB's who have been around for a few years in free agency to mix in with the youth we have at that spot already.

HellonEarth84
02-17-2009, 02:35 PM
We should worry about signing our own players - Gostkowski, Hobbs, Kaczur, Wilfork, Seymour, Mankins.... so that they arent all Free agents next year

nepg
02-18-2009, 08:25 AM
Chris McAlister would be a great risk to take. They've picked up guys like that before. If they can get him at a bargain price, and give him moderate reps, the secondary will be worlds better for it.

Safety is a confusing position because there are a lot of young UFA's out there that may be better than any option available via draft. Unless William Moore comes in and proves he's 100% healthy and has good workouts and interviews, it's unlikely that there's anyone in the draft better than Gerald Sensabaugh, OJ Atogwe, Sean Jones (despite injuries), James Butler, or Jim Leonhard (possibly other FAs thrown in as well).

Hell, if the Pats trade Cassel to the Chiefs, they could pry one of Pollard, Page, or Morgan from them as part of the deal.
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nepg
02-20-2009, 07:34 AM
I'd love for TBC to come back to the Pats. He didn't work out in SF, but he was an absolute beast in his last year with New England.
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Nalej
02-26-2009, 05:45 PM
Patriots looking at Hall?

DeAngelo Hall | Redskins | Interested: Patriots?

The Boston Globe reports that the New England Patriots may be looking to add cornerback DeAngelo Hall to their roster if the Washington Redskins are unable to secure him before the free agency period begins tomorrow.
The Patriots' ususally stout defense had issues last season, and according to the Globe, the team ranked 26th out of 32 teams in third down conversion percentage against, and 31st in red zone defense. In addition, the Patriots did express interest in Hall when he was released mid-season by the Oakland Raiders in 2008.

A true "shutdown corner", the flashy Hall would take over as the team's No. 1 cornerback on the depth chart. Although the Patriots' AFC East rivals do not have the electrifying wide receiver options that would necessitate spending a wheelbarrow full of cash on one of the league's elite cornerbacks, Hall would definitely help to contain the likes of Santonio Holmes and Reggie Wayne during an extended playoff run.




With the Cassel/Brady salaries- I don't know how serious or ideal this is.
Again- if he gives us a NE discount- I don't see why not. It can only help.

I'd love to grab Chung in the 2nd round as well.
Pass rushing OLB in the first

Don Vito
02-26-2009, 06:02 PM
Hall or McAlister would be great signings. I would love for us to get Sean Jones, too. I'm pissed the Phins got Gibril Wilson, he is going to be a solid player for them.

Nalej
02-27-2009, 07:39 AM
Hall signed with the Redskins. Where's McAllister at now?


F.Taylor signed with us. This makes me happy.

nepg
02-27-2009, 10:17 AM
Taylor's a nice replacement for Jordan.
Glad to have TBC back.

I'm sure the main focus now is just on trading Cassel. Tampa lost out on Haynesworth, so they're Suitor #1. Sounds like Stafford is high on Detroit, but the feeling might not be mutual - so Detroit's back in the mix as well as Kansas City despite keeping Chan Gailey and having Thigpen.
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Don Vito
02-27-2009, 11:25 AM
I am thrilled about Fred Taylor, he could make a huge impact for us. Maroney could learn a lot from him, both have great size and speed with durability issues. Hopefully Fred can teach Laurence a little about dealing with those injuries and getting back on the field in top form.

ElectricEye
02-27-2009, 12:01 PM
Laurence Maroney kinda always reminded me of Freddy T. Hopefully he can learn something from him. Taylor should be a great complimentary player for us. I think he might have a couple good years left in him. 700+ yards with some touchdowns would be nice...

proshoota25
02-27-2009, 01:18 PM
i just saw on espn that the patriots also just signed chris baker, a tight end who used to play for the jets

Macarthur
02-27-2009, 04:57 PM
What's the status on Sanders? I think he's underrated and wouldn't mind my Cowboys making a run at him. Give me you guys input.

nepg
02-27-2009, 05:47 PM
i just saw on espn that the patriots also just signed chris baker, a tight end who used to play for the jets

That's a solid move. He was a whiney ***** at times in NY, but he's the ideal TE for the Pats.
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Nalej
02-27-2009, 06:09 PM
J. Gaffney just signed with the Broncos.

Who's going to be our #3?

Don Vito
02-27-2009, 07:07 PM
J. Gaffney just signed with the Broncos.

Who's going to be our #3?

Unfortunately, your guess is as good as mine. We need a WR through the draft. Vrabel and Cassel look to be gone too. We are going to get some solid picks for those guys if we do in fact trade them, and I would day we go WR as early as round 2 if we get some picks for Cassel and Vrabel. You have to respect both of those guys, especially Vrabel. He was instrumental in our success since the moment he put on a Pats uniform, I will always root for him.

Nalej
02-27-2009, 07:16 PM
I guess it depends on what picks we get exactly
but as of right now- I'd like for us to target a CB and pass rushing OLB with our first two picks.

We shouldn't even be in this situation. ****** Chad Jackson.



On a side note: I know this is completely unrealistic but I'd love it if we could somehow snatch M.Austin (#11, I think) from Dallas.
That guy looks like a stud to me. He'd be a solid 3 IMO

proshoota25
02-28-2009, 12:32 AM
well if we get a late first from a possible cassel trade, i think they could target a WR. Harvin, DHB, Britt, Nicks could all be targeted imo

nepg
02-28-2009, 11:00 AM
Ya, if they get another first or early second, they need to invest in a WR with the first pick, depending on who's there... If they can get Maclin or DHB, that'd be sick.
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Bigburt63
02-28-2009, 11:25 AM
I don't think CB is where they go in round 1. LB, S, WR, are the possibilities IMO. Guyton, Mayo, Bruschi are really the only inside guys we got. OLB we have Thomas, Crable, Redd.... We'll prolly pick up some veterans for CB help, we always do. Safety there is Meriweather...and thats it

Don Vito
02-28-2009, 12:01 PM
Cassel is going with Vrabel to KC.

If we get the Chiefs first rounder via swapping picks or a straight up trade, I will be ecstatic because that means we will almost certainly have Aaron Curry in a Pats uniform next year. Curry+Mayo for the future would be absolutely nuts.

nepg
02-28-2009, 12:03 PM
TBC is back and they're high on Woods, so OLB isn't likely... ILB - there isn't much there. I'd like to see how William Moore does at his pro day. I like him, Chung, and maybe Bruton (a little later)...
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Nalej
02-28-2009, 01:40 PM
So what do we do with our 1st and KC's 2nd now?

AntoinCD
02-28-2009, 02:23 PM
Saying if they dont take anyone else in FA and none of the picks are traded,

Percy Harvin/DHB
Louis Delmas
Connor Barwin
Mike Mickens/Coye Francies

Now if they take a CB like Bodden, then OT depth will more than likely be taken, maybe someone like Meredith

proshoota25
02-28-2009, 02:35 PM
id be happy with any of those guys you just listed

Nalej
02-28-2009, 02:35 PM
I think Harvin won't make it to the 2nd.
I'd love to snatch DHB with KC's 2nd though.
Connor Barwin would be nice as well.

As long as we address pass rushing OLB, CB, WR and S in the first 2 rounds then I'd be happy.

I'd like us to pick up some other FA's though that can come in and help.
I don't know 'bout you guys but I'd like to see D. Oneal back.
Let's see how he can progress in year 2 in the system.

AntoinCD
02-28-2009, 02:38 PM
I think Harvin won't make it to the 2nd.
I'd love to snatch DHB with KC's 2nd though.
Connor Barwin would be nice as well.

As long as we address pass rushing OLB, CB, WR and S in the first 2 rounds then I'd be happy.

I'd like us to pick up some other FA's though that can come in and help.
I don't know 'bout you guys but I'd like to see D. Oneal back.
Let's see how he can progress in year 2 in the system.

If he does the pass rush would need to be upgraded big time to help him out

proshoota25
02-28-2009, 02:40 PM
i think we would take harvin or DHB at 23..... then address your olb and s later... this draft is pretty deep at cb and s... and you can find some good guys in the second.... at 34 percy or dhb wont be there so u take the best value at 23 which i think are the receivers

HellonEarth84
02-28-2009, 02:45 PM
Larry English
Brian Cushing
Connar Barwin

One of those 3 better be picked with our first or early 2nd.

AntoinCD
02-28-2009, 02:47 PM
Larry English
Brian Cushing
Connar Barwin

One of those 3 better be picked with our first or early 2nd.

I really don't see Cushing falling that far and English could very well be gone as well, i'm thinking Bears or Bucs maybe. I like Barwin in the 2nd as long as someone with a great value doesn't fall

Nalej
02-28-2009, 02:50 PM
I still say we should get pass rush OLB with our 1st.
It's our biggest need regardless...
even if it's not the best value- it'll be damn near close enough to the point that I won't care.

Only way I say we take a WR with our 1st is if Crabtree falls again.
Hopefully he gets a DUI in the next month and starts hanging out with A. Smith causing him to fall
Either then that- I say we stick with D as our primary goal

AntoinCD
02-28-2009, 02:53 PM
I still say we should get pass rush OLB with our 1st.
It's our biggest need regardless...
even if it's not the best value- it'll be damn near close enough to the point that I won't care.

Only way I say we take a WR with our 1st is if Crabtree falls again.
Hopefully he gets a DUI in the next month and starts hanging out with A. Smith causing him to fall
Either then that- I say we stick with D as our primary goal

The problem there is probably the only person at 23 who would not be a significant reach that would significantly upgrade the pass rush is English who could be gone. When we could get Sintim or Barwin or someone like that at 34 I think the best bet is to go BPA at 23

Nalej
02-28-2009, 03:03 PM
I don't think Simtim is a lock to be there at 34 either though.
I agree that Barwin could be there but I feel like that pick is more lookin into the next offseason with some contracts coming up.

on a side note... I was excited when we picked up Floyd Reese for our front office

AntoinCD
02-28-2009, 03:43 PM
I was having a think about who the winners and losers are so far into free agency. Personally I feel like we have done pretty well so far. Obviously losing someone like Vrabel means losing leadership but there was something like 3.35m cleared in cap. Then with Cassel going his salary isn't on the books either. This means that Belichick can go after one or two more defensive guys then wait for the draft. On offense, Fred Taylor and Chris Baker definitely at worst upgrade competition levels. It definitely could've been a worse couple of days. Thoughts?

proshoota25
02-28-2009, 03:53 PM
well if u look at it, we are a worse team today then we were a few days ago. but if u we can get some good signings, then id say we would be looking good. if we can get a leigh bodden, or even a ray lewis (who knows?), then i would def say we have won. im really looking forward now to the draft though

Babylon
02-28-2009, 04:09 PM
I'd say good to very good. The Pats with 3 second round picks have enough ammo to get into the 1st and maybe even high in the 1st. My dream draft of Harvin, Barwin and a corner is still in play.

I'd ammend that wish look to read something like this:

A. trade 2 second round picks to get into round 1:

1. Percy Harvin
2. Alphonso Smith
3. Connor Barwin

B. stick with the 1st and 3 2nds:

1. Alphonso Smith
2. Eben Britton
3. Jarron Gilbert
4. Clay Matthews

Either would be my dream scenario feel free to critique.

AntoinCD
02-28-2009, 04:14 PM
well if u look at it, we are a worse team today then we were a few days ago. but if u we can get some good signings, then id say we would be looking good. if we can get a leigh bodden, or even a ray lewis (who knows?), then i would def say we have won. im really looking forward now to the draft though

Yea i'd be a little annoyed if we didn't get at least one more signing preferably a DB like Bodden. I think Ray Ray is 99% a no because his contract will be far too high. I can't wait for the draft now we could go some many directions with those first day picks

thenewfeature06
02-28-2009, 04:18 PM
i think taylor is a good fit in New England just in case maroney is injured again..but he was a big part of the jaguars and i wouldve liked to see him retire with them

proshoota25
02-28-2009, 04:20 PM
btw..... i antoinecd, i love percy harvin as well..... i think he would be insane for us.... im hoping he is one of our picks :)

Nalej
02-28-2009, 05:55 PM
We traded Cassel and Vrabel.

We've signed C. Baker, F. Tayor and T. Banta Cain.

We have some UFAs that I'd like to see back.
K.Washington and L.Izzo are specal teams beasts.
D. Oneal, T.Williams and M.Wright

I think Oneal'll be better once we improve our pass rush on his 2nd yr with us
Tank never got to show us what he can do. When healthy he acts like an extra LB.
M. Wright... simply for DL depth.

I think we need to sign a CB. Bodden or McAllister'll do.
After that... I say we go OLB, S and WR in our first 3 picks.


I think it's too premature to give them a grade. There's still too much work to do.
I really am curious to see what we do on Draft day though.

AntoinCD
02-28-2009, 06:35 PM
Just saw an interesting possibility on patriots.com. Regarding the Cassel/Vrabel trade, it may leave the door open for some sort of trade for Peppers

proshoota25
02-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Just saw an interesting possibility on patriots.com. Regarding the Cassel/Vrabel trade, it may leave the door open for some sort of trade for Peppers

im guessing more cap room to fit him in?

ElectricEye
02-28-2009, 10:22 PM
Vrabel gone just makes the holes in our pass rush all the more prominent. Should be our first pick, depending on who's there. We now pretty much need one of English or Sintim at some point.

HellonEarth84
03-01-2009, 03:17 AM
We need a #3 WR now.

Hopefully can sign Wright as he provides depth as every DL position.

I dont like Sanders but unless we can upgrade, he has to be resigned since we have zero depth at Safety.

FlyingElvis
03-02-2009, 09:05 AM
^yeah, it seems pretty clear that pass rush becomes priority #1 now.


Thanks Mike! You gave NE everything we could ask for and more.


What's the status on Sanders? I think he's underrated and wouldn't mind my Cowboys making a run at him. Give me you guys input.

Resigned already. But all of the Pats fans here are hoping NE drafts his replacement in round 1 or 2 this year.

link to espn (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3943750)

FlyingElvis
03-02-2009, 09:43 AM
So far so good, I guess. Cassel has been moved early enough for us to sign anyone deemed worthy by BB w/o concerns about cap space. I like the RB & TE signings for depth, and think Baker could supplant Watson to start the season.

The draft should be very exciting. I think we'll see plenty of movement by the Pats.

Nalej
03-02-2009, 06:55 PM
I say we go after Peppers and if that stalls- try for J. Taylor

Don Vito
03-02-2009, 08:49 PM
Peppers would be a super addition. He has all of the ability in the world, he wants to play in a 3-4, and he seems like he really wants to win a championship. Could be a Moss/Dillon type of situation. Plus picking up Peppers would pretty much eliminate LB as an early need and we would pick up a proven player with some solid years left in him. I think he would be a perfect fit for our D and would allow us to focus on some other needs in the draft, even though we would probably have to give up at the very least one of our second rounders for him.

ElectricEye
03-02-2009, 10:13 PM
I'm skeptical of how well Peppers would translate to OLB. Plus it would be a lot to give up. A bit too much of a gamble for my tastes IMO.

Bigburt63
03-02-2009, 10:36 PM
I think he could make the transition. One of our OLB's almost exclusively rushes the passer every play anyways, so his time in coverage could be limited in that regard. He is a physical specimen and a great athlete so I think he could make the transition. I do agree that the price may be too high, but if we give up one of the 2nds, or maybe even the first, that is a need we would probably have drafted anyways, so why not take Peppers?

Nalej
03-03-2009, 12:19 AM
It would probably cost us our 1st rder but I'd be okay with that.
He's freakishly athletic. He wants to go 3-4. Larry English would be trying to make the same transition.
I say I rather take the chance of Peppers over anyone we draft.


All talk aside... as much as I'd like to see Peppers in a Pats uniform
there's no way we land him. I just can't see it happening.

Nalej
03-03-2009, 12:40 AM
Cassel trade setting Pats up for Peppers?

Julius Peppers | Panthers | Interested: Patriots?

With one big weekend trade, the New England Patriots went from being a team struggling to fit under the salary cap to one that has some space to play with. The Matt Cassel trade returned a second-round draft pick, but it also may have set the Pats up to bring in an even bigger prize this offseason, Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers.
The Boston Herald speculates that in clearing Cassel's monster salary off of their roster, the Patriots - who may be the "mystery AFC team" that was amongst the four teams listed by Peppers as acceptable destinations in a trade - will now make a strong move to inject some youth into their defensive scheme with perennial Pro Bowler Peppers.

While the North Carolina alum will likely draw a huge compensation package in return, Peppers would be a dominant component of the Patriots' 3-4 scheme, and a player of his caliber is not often available. Peppers finished 2008 with 51 tackles and 14.5 sacks, the latter of which was good for a tie for fifth in the NFL.

Just saw this on espn...

ElectricEye
03-03-2009, 12:58 AM
Eh. It might be a stupid reason, but Peppers is 6'7 280+. There hasn't been a guy like that playing OLB in a 3-4 yet. I'll buy it when I see it.

Nalej
03-03-2009, 01:02 AM
Adalius Thomas is 270+
Plus, Peppers is just a ****** freak
I don't think there's anything he can't do
I believe it

FlyingElvis
03-03-2009, 09:01 AM
Yeah, I'll take the chance on Peppers for 23. A number 2 would be even better.

FlyingElvis
03-03-2009, 09:27 AM
Any rumors on Dre Bly? I can't even find info on which teams he's talking to after being cut by Denver. He seems like the type of old vet BB tends to favor. He could be a nice stop gap/insurance policy for a year or two while we develop the young CBs.

Don Vito
03-03-2009, 07:40 PM
Eh. It might be a stupid reason, but Peppers is 6'7 280+. There hasn't been a guy like that playing OLB in a 3-4 yet. I'll buy it when I see it.

Peppers is a different breed though, he is a freak in the purest form. His height does scare me a little but he is only one inch taller than McGinnest and a lot more athletic.

The height issue scares a lot of 3-4 teams because they think they will be too stiff to drop back and coverage and will not be able to get under the OT's pads. Peppers has showed he can drop back into coverage and make plays in a 4-3, I think he would be super in coverage when he was dropped back. As far as getting under the pads, Peppers has freakishly long arms that would help him immensely coming at an OT. Plus Pep is ridiculously quick off the line. Ordinarily, I would not want a guy over 6-6 in our defense (unless they are a DE like Seymour) but Peppers is in his own class when it comes to ability matched only by Mario Williams in my opinion. Mathias Kiwanuka has a ton of 3-4 potential as a taller DE/OLB, but other than that I don't see too many guys who can do it.

ElectricEye
03-03-2009, 11:16 PM
He has looked EXCELLENT in coverage when he's been asked to drop back on zone blitzes, but I question how fluid he'll be on a consistent basis. Dropping back once or twice and and beating your man to the spot and using your height is one thing. Moving laterally on 20+ plays a game is another thing entirely. He's far and away one of the best athletes in the game right now and is the original freak of nature defensive end, but he's such an idyllic defensive end that he might not make such a good fit at OLB. Once again, could be the best move ever, but I'll believe Peppers can play 3-4 OLB when I see it.

luckyjackaubrey
03-04-2009, 04:57 AM
Come on guys. Comments like "i'd take him for #23 or one of our seconds", are why other teams fans hate us. It would take atleast our first, one of the seconds and something else to get him. Don't get me wrong, I would do it. But if anyone truly thinks he can be had on the cheap, guess again.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2009, 09:09 AM
It's a statement of value. If he cost a 1st & 2nd or more I would rather not see it happen. I'm not saying Peppers is not worth more than that, I'm saying I don't want the pats to give up more than that in a trade. A draftee @23 should suffice, so why give up a potential S, CB or whatever the 2nd round pick would yield?

The is very similar to what Chiefs fans said about Cassel. I don't hate any of them for saying so, why should it be any different?

People hate the Patriots organization b/c they win. All the other stuff is just fuel for the fire and "evidence" that supports their theories.

hannah73
03-04-2009, 10:09 AM
Come on guys. Comments like "i'd take him for #23 or one of our seconds", are why other teams fans hate us. It would take atleast our first, one of the seconds and something else to get him. Don't get me wrong, I would do it. But if anyone truly thinks he can be had on the cheap, guess again.

It's not really possible to say what it would take to get him.

If NC can't keep him and no one else wants to pay his salary, then he may be very cheap. NE didn't want to keep Cassel, so he went for a 2nd instead of much more. NC doesn't want to keep Peppers as he costs them 17M. They may pay someone to take him off their hands if it gets bad enough for them.

ElectricEye
03-04-2009, 11:05 AM
The cost is too great. If we can get him for our first rounder, maybe a go...But I doubt that's all it would take. Just doesn't make much sense overall to me.

FlyingElvis
03-04-2009, 11:17 AM
I think I'd be ok w/a 1st/3rd. Not sure that would even be enough, but I agree w/Hannah that 'value' is all relative.

Considering the amount of money he would make on top of the draft picks needed to get him, I really don't like any deal requiring a 1st & 2nd.

nepg
03-04-2009, 05:45 PM
I like the idea of Peppers, but I don't see it happening, and I'd rather have other possibilities anyway... Getting healthy, young, slightly more experienced OLB's back is going to do wonders for the pass rush on its own...

I really would rather see them just get Wilfork, Mankins, and Seymour extended on top of a couple key, low-cost veteran pick-ups this off-season...
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Nalej
03-04-2009, 06:09 PM
I really would rather see them just get Wilfork, Mankins, and Seymour extensions


def agree with that

ElectricEye
03-04-2009, 06:47 PM
I really would rather see them just get Wilfork, Mankins, and Seymour extended on top of a couple key, low-cost veteran pick-ups this off-season...
Same here. I would rather keep our guys around than make a big splash with Peppers.

FlyingElvis
03-05-2009, 09:06 AM
I doubt Pep gets here, and agree that Wilfork & Mankins are top priority. But if no big free agent is brought in the Pats' F.O. will look stupid. Why rush the Cassel deal if there was no intention of using some of the newly cleared cap space? There's certainly no need to do that immediately in order to rework current deals.

OMFG I don't think I could handle the resulting storm of anti-Patriot fanboi-ism!!

Nalej
03-05-2009, 12:13 PM
Harrison? TO?

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 12:35 PM
Harrison? TO?

No and NO.


Harrison is so far over the hill that it wouldn't even be worth it. We can get comparable production from the guys we have.

I don't think I should even have to talk about why Owens wouldn't work with us.

AntoinCD
03-05-2009, 12:39 PM
Harrison? TO?

No but i'd take Joey Galloway for a year, even for an old man he'd burn most teams for having to play him one on one.

Nalej
03-05-2009, 12:43 PM
I brought it up only 'cause its been brought up recently in the NFL forum

With Harrison only playing one spot his whole career- I'd say No.
For obvious reasons- I'd say no to TO as well.

J. Galloway would be nice for a year. We can draft a WR and see if he develops.

I still like the idea of signing Miles Austin of Dallas.

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 12:48 PM
Galloway wouldn't be a bad oldguy receiver to bring in if he was dirt cheap. Probably a bit pointless though.

Austin would cost a second round pick. A big no to that one as well.

AntoinCD
03-05-2009, 12:55 PM
Ideally I would prefer not to take receiver in FA but take a guy in the draft who goes into a perfect situation to develop and will eventually be able to take over from Moss. A veteran receiver would probably stop us taking a receiver high this year and with such good depth until the mid 2nd I say we cash in with someone like Harvin who will fall due to people like Crabtree, Maclin and DHB's 40.
I would much rather use the extra cap in picking up a CB or safety or even resigning Mankins and Wilfork.

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 01:09 PM
Maclin is the only receiver besides Crabtree that I would use our first on if they were there and there's no way in hell they would be. DHB scares me after the Chad Jackson experience. Granted, DHB is a much more explosive than Jackson ever was in college, but still. Inconsistent speed receivers are going to scare me for a bit. Wouldn't mind landing Britt with one of our second rounders. I think he could be exactly what we need to make our offense go off again. He probably won't be there though and there's bigger needs we have besides receiver.

Babylon
03-05-2009, 02:13 PM
Maclin is the only receiver besides Crabtree that I would use our first on if they were there and there's no way in hell they would be. DHB scares me after the Chad Jackson experience. Granted, DHB is a much more explosive than Jackson ever was in college, but still. Inconsistent speed receivers are going to scare me for a bit. Wouldn't mind landing Britt with one of our second rounders. I think he could be exactly what we need to make our offense go off again. He probably won't be there though and there's bigger needs we have besides receiver.


I think people are missing the boat on what Harvin could bring to this team. You could use him as one of your 3 receivers, the wildcat and returning kicks. It was really hard to get a total read on him at Florida based on having a weak armed QB to throw to him.

FlyingElvis
03-05-2009, 02:19 PM
I have a gut feeling the WR targeted will be Robiskie. Good size, did better than expected at the combine, football family & the resulting solid "football IQ" . . .

This kid screams Patriot material. Honestly, I think I'd be happy with it despite his alma mater. ;)

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 03:13 PM
I think people are missing the boat on what Harvin could bring to this team. You could use him as one of your 3 receivers, the wildcat and returning kicks. It was really hard to get a total read on him at Florida based on having a weak armed QB to throw to him.

I think people are giving Harvin a bit of a pass on not having a true position. He's a playmaker, there's no doubt about that, but I'm weary of any guy that lacks a true position as he does. He's more of a receiver than a runningback and is improving in that area, but I don't know. Give me a Britt type over Harvin any day. There's injury concern with him as well. As far as the wildcat goes, I don't think we'll be running it anytime soon.

I have a gut feeling the WR targeted will be Robiskie. Good size, did better than expected at the combine, football family & the resulting solid "football IQ" . . .

This kid screams Patriot material. Honestly, I think I'd be happy with it despite his alma mater. ;)

Plus he has the added benefit of being able to be had for a third round pick, most likely. I would be all over it if we could get him.

FlyingElvis
03-05-2009, 03:29 PM
Exactly what I was thinking on Robiskie - 3rd round +/- a few picks. About the only thing that would shock me would be NE picking a player with all their picks.

I'm thinking a trade down - something along the lines of 47 & a 4th for a 3rd and 2010 2nd. Use the higher 3rd on Robiskie, add plenty of talent this year and come out with an extra 2nd in 2010.

nepg
03-05-2009, 03:53 PM
Maclin is the only receiver besides Crabtree that I would use our first on if they were there and there's no way in hell they would be. DHB scares me after the Chad Jackson experience. Granted, DHB is a much more explosive than Jackson ever was in college, but still. Inconsistent speed receivers are going to scare me for a bit. Wouldn't mind landing Britt with one of our second rounders. I think he could be exactly what we need to make our offense go off again. He probably won't be there though and there's bigger needs we have besides receiver.

DHB is a far different animal than Chad Jackson. Just look at their yards per reception (one of the most telling statst for college-to-NFL receivers). DHB is a beast. At worst, he's Kelley Washington who can return kicks, minus the inability to get on the field due to attitude/off-field problems (which is why Washington isn't a top tier WR right now). I don't see him available to the Pats unless they trade into the Top 15 though... I could see DHB going to Oakland if things fell the right way...
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ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 04:21 PM
DHB is a far different animal than Chad Jackson. Just look at their yards per reception (one of the most telling statst for college-to-NFL receivers). DHB is a beast. At worst, he's Kelley Washington who can return kicks, minus the inability to get on the field due to attitude/off-field problems (which is why Washington isn't a top tier WR right now). I don't see him available to the Pats unless they trade into the Top 15 though... I could see DHB going to Oakland if things fell the right way...

I'm a massive fan. It's hard to forget the way he torched Miami a couple years back. I lucked into watching that game and the sheer display of speed was absolutely incredible. The problem is he is raw as hell. I'm not saying he isn't a massive talent and far more talented than the Jackson/Bethel Johnson experiments, but for whatever reason we don't have a good history of bringing raw receivers up. Hell, we haven't had any success with drafting at that position ever hardly. I think both the Patriots and DHB(Harvin as well) would be better served ending up with some one else.

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 05:58 PM
We just signed Springs. I'm ok with it depending on what the cost is. I really don't want to see us miss out on a safety or a younger corner because we overpaid for Springs for half a season.

Don Vito
03-05-2009, 06:14 PM
I am happy with the Springs signing. The Greg Lewis trade confuses me a little, we didn't give much up for him but still...

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 06:16 PM
I am happy with the Springs signing. The Greg Lewis trade confuses me a little, we didn't give much up for him but still...

I thought it was curious as well. The staff must like him.

Don Vito
03-05-2009, 06:26 PM
I thought it was curious as well. The staff must like him.

Yeah I trust the staff but Greg Lewis? That shocked me.

I am really disappointed that we lost Heath Evans to the Saints, he was a great team player for us. We may need to look at a FB now. That guy out of Syracuse looks to be in the Evans mold, I wouldn't mind us looking at a guy like him. Another guy who I like a lot is Ole Miss FB Jason Cook, BJGE's old lead blocker. He is a smart guy with some of potential as a FB.

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 07:46 PM
It's sad to see Heath go. He was a real good fullback for us. Fullback is a need for us on the second day now. I would love to get Quinn Johnson if he were around for us.

Nalej
03-05-2009, 08:42 PM
Love the Springs signing.
Still don't know 'bout the G.Lewis trade as well.
He's a solid guy. Made big plays for the Eagles.
*shrugs*

I'll miss Evans as well. I've always liked that guy.




fyi... unless the Cowboys resigned Austion- He's a UFA.
... and a 2nd rounder for him???? I'd say hell no to that too

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 08:52 PM
fyi... unless the Cowboys resigned Austion- He's a UFA.
... and a 2nd rounder for him???? I'd say hell no to that too

I'm pretty sure he signed an offer sheet recently.


Yup, here's the link.
http://www.rototimes.com/nfl/player.php?tqid=6556&type=news&nid=55752

Nalej
03-05-2009, 08:55 PM
Greg Lewis it is then.
We better still draft a WR in the 2nd

proshoota25
03-05-2009, 09:17 PM
yeah the greg lewis signing unfortunately takes the patriots out of the running for selecting a WR with our first few picks. Sean Springs is a good signing, but we now NEED more than anything else, a safety. With this recent signings, I am not sure where the patriots will go in the draft. no idea, but safety better be covered

ElectricEye
03-05-2009, 10:08 PM
yeah the greg lewis signing unfortunately takes the patriots out of the running for selecting a WR with our first few picks. Sean Springs is a good signing, but we now NEED more than anything else, a safety. With this recent signings, I am not sure where the patriots will go in the draft. no idea, but safety better be covered

I don't think any of this changes our draft plans at all. I'm expecting us to pick a receiver in the second round at this point with the talent available at the position this year and the extra second rounder from KC. I was against it before the trade, but if Kenny Britt or Hakeem Nicks is there at our second I would be all for it. Not quite the Harvin guy that a lot of the people here seem to be, but yeah.

Safety is a big need and I was really hoping we made a move to get a younger safety over Springs. I'll be sad if we miss out on Sean Smith because of Springs. I could still see us passing on a safety entirely now given the fact Sanders is back with the team. Not near as big of a hole as it was before. Still, Sanders certainly isn't an impact playing and adding someone to fill the shoes of Rodney Harrison would be nice. A Chip Vaughn type in the third would fit the bill if we decided the value for other positions were greater with the second rounders. Wouldn't be disappointed if we went Britt/BPA at Corner/Meredith or Loadholt with the seconds and drafted one of the second tier safeties in the third to compete with Sanders.

FlyingElvis
03-06-2009, 08:39 AM
The Pats site has the trade listed as undisclosed draft picks for 2009/2010. Are there any reports on what 09 pick we gave up and what 2010 pick we get back?

Makes little sense to me, but if it is late round picks I suppose it makes no difference.


Springs sounds about right to me. I still think CB will not be a high priority but, as always, NE will likely go BPA.

ElectricEye
03-06-2009, 08:46 AM
The Pats site has the trade listed as undisclosed draft picks for 2009/2010. Are there any reports on what 09 pick we gave up and what 2010 pick we get back?

I think we gave up a 5th. Don't know what else we got back.

FlyingElvis
03-06-2009, 08:48 AM
Ok. A 5th - and probably 2010 6th or 7th in return - for a KR/special teams guy . . . w/e lol

ElectricEye
03-06-2009, 08:49 AM
Ok. A 5th - and probably 2010 6th or 7th in return - for a KR/special teams guy . . . w/e lol

Doesn't make much sense to me either considering that 5th rounder would have been perfect to pickup a fullback. I guess it does just get filed under whatever haha.

nepg
03-06-2009, 10:24 AM
Greg Lewis is a great deep threat, which is what the Pats needed. Dude gets down field in a hurry and is often forgotten. Getting him and a 2010 pick for a 2009 pick sounds solid. It doesn't take them out of the running to select a WR, though. Just gets them a piece they really needed.

Signing Springs was huge. I like both Wilhite and Wheatley, but the Pats really needed to add a proven veteran like Springs (or McAlister) who's been around and done some things (and can still play).

Retaining James Sanders was also huge. While he's been dissappointing relative to what his potential was/is perceived to be, he's still possibly better than anyone in this draft and could be better than any available FA's...

Losing Evans sucks. Doesn't mean they need a FB, though...they use Hochstein for the rare amount of lead blocking they employ anyway...just means they need to fill another big hole on special teams. Izzo, Evans, and Washington were their best ST players, and they might lose all 3 of them.
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ElectricEye
03-06-2009, 10:59 AM
Retaining James Sanders was also huge. While he's been dissappointing relative to what his potential was/is perceived to be, he's still possibly better than anyone in this draft and could be better than any available FA's...


I agree that bringing Sanders back was a good move, but I think William Moore, Rashad Johnson, and really any number of the second round safeties you want to throw out there could be both potentially better and better right away. Sanders is decent, but we could still use an upgrade. Makes so it isn't a glaring hole though.

Nalej
03-06-2009, 04:26 PM
Did we trade our 47th pick to the Dolphins?
I'm seeing the Dolphins pickin in that spot in recent mock drafts


????

Nalej
03-07-2009, 03:07 PM
Nevermind. I figured it out

Matthew Jones
03-08-2009, 04:39 PM
Greg Lewis is a great deep threat, which is what the Pats needed. Dude gets down field in a hurry and is often forgotten. Getting him and a 2010 pick for a 2009 pick sounds solid. It doesn't take them out of the running to select a WR, though. Just gets them a piece they really needed.

Signing Springs was huge. I like both Wilhite and Wheatley, but the Pats really needed to add a proven veteran like Springs (or McAlister) who's been around and done some things (and can still play).

Retaining James Sanders was also huge. While he's been dissappointing relative to what his potential was/is perceived to be, he's still possibly better than anyone in this draft and could be better than any available FA's...

Losing Evans sucks. Doesn't mean they need a FB, though...they use Hochstein for the rare amount of lead blocking they employ anyway...just means they need to fill another big hole on special teams. Izzo, Evans, and Washington were their best ST players, and they might lose all 3 of them.

I agree with all these points - I can see Greg Lewis doing what Donte Stallworth was able to do for us in 2007. He's not a steal by any means, but here's the basis of why New England traded for him (just so people can see things the way Belichick did when he made the trade):

- Fairly young player who should be entering his prime soon
- Great deep threat, has a very high career yards per catch
- Has performed very well against the Patriots over his career
- Can stretch the field opposite Moss and prey on 1-on-1 coverage
- Potential replacement for Kelley Washington on kick/punt teams
- Cheap contract that comes out to only about 3 years, $1.8 million

Basically, they're willing to sacrifice the fifth round pick to get an affordable project at wide receiver. It's likely in this market that New England would have had to vastly overpay to address wide receiver in free agency - look at how much money people spent on Houshmandzadeh, Owens, Coles, Washington, etc. - and this is more cap-friendly. Plus, it's not like a fifth round pick really has a spectacular chance at making the roster either.

luckyjackaubrey
03-10-2009, 04:20 AM
Guys I am a Patriots fan who has been living here outside of Philly for 10 years now. Greg Lewis is not a difference maker. He is not a field stretcher. He has absollutely NO special teams value. He did not dress the second half of the season because 6 guys the Eagles had were better wrs and COULD play somewhere on special teams. He is no better than 50-50 to make the roster next year. That is why the Patriots are getting back the 7th rounder next year. It is essentially a 5 for a 7 and a shot in the dark on lewis contributing. No way he has Stallworth-like impact.

ElectricEye
03-10-2009, 11:34 AM
Guys I am a Patriots fan who has been living here outside of Philly for 10 years now. Greg Lewis is not a difference maker. He is not a field stretcher. He has absollutely NO special teams value. He did not dress the second half of the season because 6 guys the Eagles had were better wrs and COULD play somewhere on special teams. He is no better than 50-50 to make the roster next year. That is why the Patriots are getting back the 7th rounder next year. It is essentially a 5 for a 7 and a shot in the dark on lewis contributing. No way he has Stallworth-like impact.

Yeah, I agree.

nepg
03-10-2009, 11:41 AM
Greg Lewis is good when he's forgotten...which can only happen when you have an elite WR or two on the field with him. There's no one on the Eagles that gets doubled because they're all basically the same level of receiver. The Pats have 2 guys that get doubled, making Greg Lewis useful.
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Don Vito
03-10-2009, 04:20 PM
Leigh Bodden is a Pat, love the move. He has had some injuries but he is 27 and has a ton of ability, he had some good seasons in Cleveland too. Hopefully he and Springs can stay healthy and perform well, pushing Hobbs to nickel and Wilhite and Wheatley behind him. Corner is not as much of a need but we still may take one on the first day, you never know.

FlyingElvis
03-10-2009, 04:24 PM
just saw on espn.com that the patriots have just signed leigh bodden. pretty sweet, got two veteran corners.

........

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3968052

link


Hope you don't mind the cross thread qoute, but this seemed like it belongs in this thread.

I like this signing, and would have been happy w/Bodden getting a multi year deal on a "buy low" basis. A terrible year with the Lions doesn't seem like a good guage of his skills to me. Either way, it looks like a draft spot just opened up for O or D line. Or the more likely scenario of a trade for picks in 2010.

cdf_2108
03-10-2009, 04:32 PM
I think we're a better team with Bodden than without him but I'm not that excited about this...he signed a one-year deal at the veteran minimum making me think there might be something that the whole league knows about this guy that isn't so good (i.e. one of his many injuries catching up to him?) .

I hope he can return to his 2005-2006 glory days in cleveland but something tells me that if people thought that scenario was even remotely possible, he'd be getting more than a 1 year minimum wage deal...

cdf_2108
03-10-2009, 04:33 PM
we're definitely getting one of the corners Day 1, hopefully Byrd...I don't really like any of the other top corner prospects outside of Vontae Davis (who we probably don't have a shot at) because they're all shorter than 5'10.

Don Vito
03-10-2009, 04:35 PM
I think we're a better team with Bodden than without him but I'm not that excited about this...he signed a one-year deal at the veteran minimum making me think there might be something that the whole league knows about this guy that isn't so good (i.e. one of his many injuries catching up to him?) .

I hope he can return to his 2005-2006 glory days in cleveland but something tells me that if people thought that scenario was even remotely possible, he'd be getting more than a 1 year minimum wage deal...

True, but the reward greatly outweighs the risk in this signing. He is still relatively young and if he can stay healthy he could be a contributor.

cdf_2108
03-10-2009, 04:42 PM
Agreed, the pats are definitely being prudent and I don't think this is a big risk at all--Let's hope it works out.

I'm surprised the patriots haven't made moves for guys like Marvin Harrison or Torry Holt, maybe these high profile guys aren't as satisfied with the market they're getting. They seem like patriot-personality guys.

Nalej
03-10-2009, 06:19 PM
I'm excited about this....
this has me thinkin of which way to go in the draft now
I think it all depends on who's available.
If the BPA isn't a corner at that point- I think we skip the CB

nepg
03-10-2009, 06:32 PM
Leigh Bodden is a Pat, love the move. He has had some injuries but he is 27 and has a ton of ability, he had some good seasons in Cleveland too. Hopefully he and Springs can stay healthy and perform well, pushing Hobbs to nickel and Wilhite and Wheatley behind him. Corner is not as much of a need but we still may take one on the first day, you never know.

"...pushing Hobbs to nickel..."

??? C'mon, that's just dumb. Hobbs is at-worst, a #2 NFL CB. He's gotten it done, and proven himself too many times to have people say this crap about a couple broken-bodies like Shawn Springs and Leigh F'ing Bodden (whose "good" seasons in Cleveland really weren't that great) pushing Ellis Hobbs to nickel.

I do like the Bodden signing, along with Springs though. It solidifies the position and makes it less of an immediate draft need. The Patriots can focus the early picks to positions that suffer huge drop-offs in talent after the 1st & 2nd round positions like OT, WR, DL, and S. They can find a guy that's comparable to the first & second round corners, like Joe Burnett, a little later.
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Don Vito
03-10-2009, 07:06 PM
"...pushing Hobbs to nickel..."

??? C'mon, that's just dumb. Hobbs is at-worst, a #2 NFL CB. He's gotten it done, and proven himself too many times to have people say this crap about a couple broken-bodies like Shawn Springs and Leigh F'ing Bodden (whose "good" seasons in Cleveland really weren't that great) pushing Ellis Hobbs to nickel.

I do like the Bodden signing, along with Springs though. It solidifies the position and makes it less of an immediate draft need. The Patriots can focus the early picks to positions that suffer huge drop-offs in talent after the 1st & 2nd round positions like OT, WR, DL, and S. They can find a guy that's comparable to the first & second round corners, like Joe Burnett, a little later.

Hobbs is not a bad corner, but he is not a #1 cornerback. I think he could be an elite nickelback and I was saying what I though would be the best case scenario-Springs and Bodden play great and stay healthy. They probably both won't be better than Hobbs, I just think Hobbs could be an elite nickel back. He has the ability to be a great #2 and has been a solid player for us, but he has had his bad moments too. Most of his bad moments came when he had to be the #1 guy, if at least one of Springs/Bodden can emerge as a bonafide starter that will make Hobbs that much better. That is pretty much what I was trying to say.

nepg
03-10-2009, 07:08 PM
Bodden has never been better than Hobbs.
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Don Vito
03-10-2009, 07:18 PM
Bodden has never been better than Hobbs.

People beat out people who are supposedly better than them. It has happened before, and it will continue to happen. Bodden has also never played on a team with a good pass rush, he has never played with much of a supporting cast, and he has never played on a very good team period. He could come here and tear it up for all we know, or he could do nothing. Hobbs does catch a lot of flak and he is not a terrible corner, he is a solid player for us. But that does not mean that if Bodden outperfroms Hobbs that Hobbs will play over Bodden.

ElectricEye
03-10-2009, 09:54 PM
Bodden has never been better than Hobbs.

That's just not true. Bodden was one of the better corners around for a time. Had a big time reputation for being the only one who could shut Chad Johnson down during his prime years. Fully expect Bodden to start over Hobbs and probably Springs if he's healthy. Absolutely enamored with the deal.

Still think we need a corner though. Byrd would still look real good in round two.

Don Vito
03-11-2009, 12:51 AM
That's just not true. Bodden was one of the better corners around for a time. Had a big time reputation for being the only one who could shut Chad Johnson down during his prime years. Fully expect Bodden to start over Hobbs and probably Springs if he's healthy. Absolutely enamored with the deal.

Still think we need a corner though. Byrd would still look real good in round two.

I would love Byrd in round 2. I do think the Springs and Bodden signings are going to help us out quite a bit, it is just natural for Pats fans to be hesitant in thinking that with recent veteran busts like Tory James and Deltha O'Neal. The expectations are a lot higher for these guys because they both have something left in the tank. Hobbs is not trash and is a good player for us but I think Springs and Bodden could prove to be great accquisitions if they stay healthy.

That being said, I would still have no problem if we added one more young corner. Jairus Byrd would be awesome. Safety is a much bigger need in the secondary now, however.

ElectricEye
03-11-2009, 06:50 AM
I agree that we're kinda of being forced to take a safety now. No big free agents at the position left.

Oh, and yeah, Hobbs is an alright corner...but ideally he is a nickelback.

Matthew Jones
03-11-2009, 11:01 AM
Bodden has never been better than Hobbs.

Bodden has always been better than Hobbs. I don't like him, but he's been a good cornerback in the NFL for a long time. Even a top one with the Browns for a while.

Matthew Jones
03-11-2009, 11:05 AM
Guys I am a Patriots fan who has been living here outside of Philly for 10 years now. Greg Lewis is not a difference maker. He is not a field stretcher. He has absollutely NO special teams value. He did not dress the second half of the season because 6 guys the Eagles had were better wrs and COULD play somewhere on special teams. He is no better than 50-50 to make the roster next year. That is why the Patriots are getting back the 7th rounder next year. It is essentially a 5 for a 7 and a shot in the dark on lewis contributing. No way he has Stallworth-like impact.

While I don't think Greg Lewis has the kind of talent that Stallworth does, I also don't think people like Wes Welker, Reche Caldwell, or David Givens did, either, and all of them vastly improved under Tom Brady. Recent wide receivers and their differences with and without Brady:

Randy Moss:

Raiders, 2006: 42-553-3
Patriots, 2007: 98-1,493-23

Wes Welker:

Dolphins, 2006: 67-687-1
Patriots, 2007: 112-1,175-8

Deion Branch:

Seahawks, 2006: 53-725-4
Patriots, 2005: 78-998-5

David Givens:

Titans, 2006: 8-104-0
Patriots, 2005: 59-738-2

Reche Caldwell:

Chargers, 2005: 28-352-1
Patriots, 2006: 61-760-4

cdf_2108
03-11-2009, 11:09 AM
In a weird way, I'm happy that the patriots are paying Bodden more than ESPN had originally leaked they were going to pay him. He's getting 2.25 mil not 750k. It makes me think that people are still pretty confident in his big-time potential.

The fact that some of the cockiest NFL players (Kellen Winslow, Chad Johnson) called Bodden one of the best corners in the league tells me we could have found ourselves in the perfect situation with Leigh Bodden: bad market, previous team sucked, huge potential, low risk.

When healthy, Bodden + Springs definitely start over Hobbs but I agree Hobbs would be a good number 2, and all this experience will be great for the younger guys (wheatley and wilhite). If Vontae Davis falls to 23 i say we still take him, but other than that, we shouldn't take a corner until late round 2 unless the value is overwhelming.

I hope the Patriots go after Marvin Harrison, he would be a great #2 and that way we could use Welker in the Slot where he's more effective.

nepg
03-11-2009, 11:16 AM
He had 1 season that didn't suck. Big difference from: "...been a good cornerback in the NFL for a long time."

"Even a top one with the Browns for a while."

Not saying much at all here...

Hobbs has been the more consistent player and is still growing as a player. It's flat-out ridiculous to say Bodden is better. Could Bodden be better? Yes. Let's hope for the best...but the dude's an ass hole, who knows how long he lasts in that lockerroom...
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ElectricEye
03-11-2009, 12:52 PM
He had 1 season that didn't suck. Big difference from: "...been a good cornerback in the NFL for a long time."

"Even a top one with the Browns for a while."

Not saying much at all here...

Hobbs has been the more consistent player and is still growing as a player. It's flat-out ridiculous to say Bodden is better. Could Bodden be better? Yes. Let's hope for the best...but the dude's an ass hole, who knows how long he lasts in that lockerroom...
One season where he didn't suck? You must be thinking of a different player. From 2005-2007 he was a number one caliber cornerback. he struggled last year when he was asked to play in the Cover 2. Completely misused in Detroit.

Hobbs is hardly consistent and isn't getting any better. I guarantee you're the only person here who will argue he's the better corner.

FlyingElvis
03-11-2009, 01:11 PM
I'd say Bodden is the better talent and has a much higher ceiling. For right now, however, I would argue Hobbs is the better corner. My expectation is that Bodden returns to form and becomes a true #1 again like he was with the Browns, at which point he will prove he is the better corner by far.

Semantics. ;) But he has to show us he is the better corner.

The guy definitely has great skills that were completely wasted in Detroit. At 0-16 it's safe to say the was the case with most guys in Motor City last season.


I would not be at all surprised to see Hobbs pushed to dime back this season. I like him, but I think Springs, Bodden and Wheatley will emerge as the top 3.

FlyingElvis
03-11-2009, 01:13 PM
I hope the Patriots go after Marvin Harrison, he would be a great #2 and that way we could use Welker in the Slot where he's more effective.

No thanks. Marvin is completely done. He couldn't beat a red-headed stepchild at this point in his career. I'd rather see a rookie in there. Same goes for Holt, since he was mentioned somewhere else, too.


Then again, there are very few options left at WR . . . maybe they're working on a Boldin trade since the trigger was pulled so early on the Cassel trade. [/dream]

nepg
03-11-2009, 02:04 PM
Holt can still play. Problem is, he won't come cheap. St. Louis is just cleaning house completely right now. If you're old, you're out.
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cdf_2108
03-11-2009, 04:59 PM
if we could get him cheap, marvin harrison would be a huge upgrade over jabar 'big-time' gaffney. a 1 year 2.25 million contract like bodden seems right.

i agree that torry holt has much more in the tank and will probably command a pricey 3 yr deal like Randy Moss got, and so we have no chance.

Unlikely we get Boldin, would probably have to trade one of our 2nds and sign him to a huge deal that we dont have cap room for although I agree, it would be a dream come true...boldin and moss but it wouldn't last long anyway. boldin is a physical receiver who's game will suffer more to age and moss is already 34.

ElectricEye
03-11-2009, 10:41 PM
Don't want any part in Harrison. He's washed up. The offense they have in Peyton Manning made him look a bit better the past few years.

FlyingElvis
03-12-2009, 08:43 AM
^ Exactly. If Marvin looked that bad with Peyton throwing him the ball you know he's done.

Even if Holt has something left I would rather see a WR drafted to add some youth at the position. Any WR brought in is only going to get ~40 passes with Moss & Welker in the mix anyway, which would be a great scenario for a rookie.

ElectricEye
03-12-2009, 09:33 AM
That's not to say Tom Brady wouldn't make him look similarly good....just not worth it. We could get the same production for a lot cheaper. We need to get younger at the position anyway.

If we had our choice of anyone in the draft, I think Maclin would be perfect for us, but obviously we don't...so I'm really interested in Kenny Britt. With the KC second rounder, gives us a LOT of flexibility. I would be tempted to take him at the top of the second round if he were there. Britt probably has the best size/speed combination out of anyone in the draft and is a damn fine receiver to go along with all that.

Nalej
03-14-2009, 06:48 PM
We resigned M.Wright to a four yr deal and
signed J. Galloway to a one year deal.


Love it
Love it
Love it

proshoota25
03-15-2009, 01:28 PM
i like the galloway signing but idk what the pats are now going to do in the draft.... they keep signing these veterans to play important positions (CB, WR) when we also need some young talent, esp at WR imo. CB we have wilhite and wheatley, but we do not have a really good young WR.

ElectricEye
03-15-2009, 08:52 PM
Hope it doesn't do anything to change anything. All this age kinda scares me.

Matthew Jones
03-15-2009, 09:02 PM
This is a big time future draft. I don't think New England will allow some short-term deals get in the way of replenishing talent at key positions. Maybe something like this (I like to call it Pac-10 day):

1. ILB Rey Maualuga, Southern California
2. OLB Clay Matthews, Southern California
2. CB Jairus Byrd, Oregon
2. OG Andy Levitre, Oregon State

ElectricEye
03-15-2009, 09:31 PM
That would be a nice draft. Still, I just think too many veterans with expectations is never a good thing. I'm sure the team will be fine but a lot of teams have blown up once they started bringing in older guys for whatever reason.

nepg
03-16-2009, 08:08 AM
i like the galloway signing but idk what the pats are now going to do in the draft.... they keep signing these veterans to play important positions (CB, WR) when we also need some young talent, esp at WR imo. CB we have wilhite and wheatley, but we do not have a really good young WR.

The moves the Pats have made are great. It will allow them to go boom/bust the whole draft. It's going to be exciting.
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FlyingElvis
03-16-2009, 08:36 AM
I like the moves so far. I don't think it affects that draft that much b/c many of these guys are older and can only be seen as stop gaps.

Between age, current talent and contracts there are many positions of need. It seems like all the Pats fans here agree we must get a pass rusher (OLB) and a Safety immediately. On offense it is WR, TE, G, T and RB. On D it is ILB, DT, DE and CB.

Obviously Wilfork & Mankins really need to be extended, which would eliminate DT as a need. But there are still plenty of spots to fill long term and a few current needs. The moves made so far in FA give NE the chance to really move around and target guys they really like at several positions.

nepg
03-16-2009, 10:08 AM
Well, the Wright re-signing really did affect the draft. That's the only one though.
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hannah73
03-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Yeah, it's hard to draft guys where there is almost no room in the inn available.

Have 5 CBs including wheatley and wilhite, 6 if you count Richardson.
Guess they could go safety for sure and LB of course. lineman too. Although I wouldn't draft levitre in the 2nd round. He seems like just another guy to me, not really athletic. Maybe Eric Wood in the 3rd/4th.

Maluga seems to have some red flags. I thought I read somewhere that they liked Michael Johnson and Clay Matthews, but I can't seem to find that anywhere anymore. Johnson doesn't seem like their type. Matthews does but may be too small to play ILB.

I think I read they like Ayers too. He could play 3-4 OLB and actually hold the point. which is important.

So I would give them...

Gilbert (yes 1st round, athletic guys who are 6-6 290 are tought to find)

Ayers (cause he can hold the point and play 3-4 OLB)

Delmas (cause they talked to him a bunch, other possibilities Chung and Moore and Byrd who could play safety or chip Vaughn or Rashad Johnson later)

A guard center like Luigs woods or Caldwell would be good as Koppen isn't really that good and they need a backup eventual replacement for mankins/Neal. Mankins may want too much money.

A ILB like Jaspar Brinkley in the 3rd.

A RB would be good as Maroney could be then cut. A WR except there's no room really. Maybe Dillard in the 5th as he seems pretty intelligent. Of course he may not last that long.

FlyingElvis
03-16-2009, 12:53 PM
It will probably be Pettigrew then all O & D line and LBs.

Nalej
03-16-2009, 12:55 PM
I hope not
We still need our pass rushing OLB

ElectricEye
03-16-2009, 01:01 PM
Matthews would not play inside for us. That's taking away from one of his strengths. He's at 240+ right now and could easily get up to 250 and play OLB without a problem. I'm starting to come around on him in a major way. Tested better than any of his competition at the end of first 3-4 OLB bracket and it never hurts to have a guy who plays that hard around either.

Nalej
03-16-2009, 01:07 PM
I just got text'd by NFL Mobile Live


Pats and Panthers are trying to get a deal done between March 22nd and the Draft that would send the Pats' 34th pick to the Panthers for J. Peppers.
It also says that BB loves the idea of teaming up Rey Maualuga with Mayo in the middle with the 23rd pick.

Nalej
03-16-2009, 01:08 PM
Peppers for the 34th pick? I say Hell Yeah!

FlyingElvis
03-16-2009, 01:09 PM
Matthews is a player I would be happy with, and he could be a steal if he slides to the mid 2nd pick. I have heard a few talking heads call him under-rated or overshadowed b/c of the other USC LBs.

ElectricEye
03-16-2009, 01:10 PM
Matthews is a player I would be happy with, and he could be a steal if he slides to the mid 2nd pick. I have heard a few talking heads call him under-rated or overshadowed b/c of the other USC LBs.

He really is. Pete Carroll is on the record saying that he thinks that if he had played Matthews, USC wouldn't have lost to Oregon State.

As far as Peppers for the 34th pick....Here we go again I guess? Have to wonder how reliable that service is though.

FlyingElvis
03-16-2009, 01:14 PM
I just got text'd by NFL Mobile Live


Pats and Panthers are trying to get a deal done between March 22nd and the Draft that would send the Pats' 34th pick to the Panthers for J. Peppers.
It also says that BB loves the idea of teaming up Rey Maualuga with Mayo in the middle with the 23rd pick.

That would be well worth it. I wouldn't mind changing my sig to reflect that deal.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r39/dmc27sinned/sigs%20n%20avs/BB_Picks_Sig_Pep.jpg

lol

nepg
03-16-2009, 01:25 PM
Matthews would not play inside for us. That's taking away from one of his strengths. He's at 240+ right now and could easily get up to 250 and play OLB without a problem. I'm starting to come around on him in a major way. Tested better than any of his competition at the end of first 3-4 OLB bracket and it never hurts to have a guy who plays that hard around either.

I think Matthews could become a very good 3-4 ILB, but I agree that's not where he should play for the Pats (at least, not right away). They have plenty of guys that can play inside.
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proshoota25
03-16-2009, 02:54 PM
damn mayo maulaluga peppers and adalius thomas would be insanely nasty haha with crable, redd, and guyton developing behind them

FlyingElvis
03-16-2009, 02:56 PM
The potential Peppers trade is now being run on every outlet. sigh.

If it's pick #34 and little else it's ok, but man Pepp will be expensive.

Either way I think the Cassel deal was executed awfully quick since no true 'big-time' FA deal has been done.

FlyingElvis
03-16-2009, 02:58 PM
damn mayo maulaluga peppers and adalius thomas would be insanely nasty haha with crable, redd, and guyton developing behind them

Don't forget Tedy!!! Limit his time and let him put up a few big plays each game. BRUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!

FlyingElvis
03-16-2009, 03:00 PM
The Big Show is making a great point that I hadn't thought of . . . which is a surprise - mostly that I haven't turned it off yet . . . lol

Peppers/Seymour/Warren as 3rd down lineman when Wilfork would be off the field anyway. Nasty.

Bigburt63
03-16-2009, 03:49 PM
The Big Show is making a great point that I hadn't thought of . . . which is a surprise - mostly that I haven't turned it off yet . . . lol

Peppers/Seymour/Warren as 3rd down lineman when Wilfork would be off the field anyway. Nasty.

Imagine the 4 man front. Pepper, Seymour, Wilfork, Warren with J Green and Wright rotating in too

Bigburt63
03-16-2009, 03:50 PM
He's gonna be expensive if this happens, contractually, but damn the potential is just phenominal

FlyingElvis
03-16-2009, 03:52 PM
^ I am . . . with Mayo & Maualuga & Thomas behind and a rotation of Guyton, Crable & Bruschi.


I'm liking it!


The money issue might make Seymour a lame duck, though. He'll have quite a pricey tag next year and would be the odd man out w/Vince & Mankins having the advantage of youth.

Bigburt63
03-16-2009, 03:56 PM
^ Which could then, in turn, effect how we draft this year (Jackson or Gilbert anyone?)

ElectricEye
03-16-2009, 04:26 PM
I don't want to deal with the contract Peppers would command personally. The price would be right to experiment with him as a linebacker in that scenario in terms of trade value, but the contract would be punishing.

Nalej
03-16-2009, 10:29 PM
ESPN Radio said that Peppers can talk to any team he wants to.
Including contract request-
I doubt the Pats would initiate trade talks before knowing what his asking price is.

I agree that Seymour might not be able to be retained...
so draft Kruger/Gilbert/Jackson now and let him learn behind our studs

ElectricEye
03-17-2009, 10:30 AM
If we get Peppers, we're not keeping Seymour. I would kinda rather have Seymour over Peppers.

FlyingElvis
03-17-2009, 10:42 AM
I'm just glad the Pats had good reason for moving Cassel so quick. The Peppers talks were likely ongoing the entire time.


Good article on Patriots.com about the available safeties. I already want William Moore, but I know a few of you aren't sold. Read the few paragraphs in this article (http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=36538&pcid=46&rss=1) on him and see if that doesn't sway your opinion.


Delmas is listed as a 3rd round guy. ??

ElectricEye
03-17-2009, 10:49 AM
Interesting that there's no Rashad Johnson there...

FlyingElvis
03-17-2009, 11:11 AM
I forgot about him . . . maybe they did, too?


Schefter said on WEEI yesterday that he's 99.9% sure Peppers will not be a Patriot. I really hope not. His talent is insane but his contract would completely kill the "Patriot Way" when Mankins, Seymour and Wilfork come due next year.


If they really go after him they need to extend Vince & Logan ASAP so they don't see a huge contract go to Peppers before signing.

proshoota25
03-17-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm just glad the Pats had good reason for moving Cassel so quick. The Peppers talks were likely ongoing the entire time.


Good article on Patriots.com about the available safeties. I already want William Moore, but I know a few of you aren't sold. Read the few paragraphs in this article (http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=36538&pcid=46&rss=1) on him and see if that doesn't sway your opinion.


Delmas is listed as a 3rd round guy. ??

yea that article must be really old to list delmas as a third rounder. maybe they were mostly looking at SS. Delmas has the versatility to play both, along with Moore, and Chung would almost always be a SS. Rashard Johnson would be a FS without a doubt. maybe they know something we dont and figure meriwether to be used exclusively at FS this year haha

FlyingElvis
03-17-2009, 11:42 AM
It is odd . . . mostly because it is dated as 3/12.

ElectricEye
03-17-2009, 11:45 AM
Schefter said on WEEI yesterday that he's 99.9% sure Peppers will not be a Patriot. I really hope not. His talent is insane but his contract would completely kill the "Patriot Way" when Mankins, Seymour and Wilfork come due next year.

As much as I don't like it, I think it's more 50/50 as to if we land Peppers at this point. We would lose out on Seymour next year and Wilfork and Mankins wouldn't be sure things either. Just don't think he's worth that.

nepg
03-17-2009, 01:08 PM
I don't think bringing in Peppers means anyone in particular is out the door. They've worked really hard to keep that front 3 together. What Peppers would mean to the defense is worth the risk, though.
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FlyingElvis
03-17-2009, 02:24 PM
^ You're missing the point, I think.


In order to get Peppers the Patriots will have to pay a huge contract - basically paying him as one of the best at his position. Once they do that for him the other players who are also among the best at their positions (Wilfork, Seymour & Mankins) will expect that they will be paid accordingly as well.


So Peppers won't just cost us his top dollar salary, he will also make it impossible for the Pats to then ask those guys to take less than top dollar. It would be an extremely expensive ripple effect.

ElectricEye
03-17-2009, 08:25 PM
The only thing that could save us is the potential of an uncapped year. We'll see if we're willing to shell out that much dough though. Without a cap, we'll see some enormous salaries being thrown around so it wouldn't be that easy.

nepg
03-18-2009, 12:32 AM
^ You're missing the point, I think.


In order to get Peppers the Patriots will have to pay a huge contract - basically paying him as one of the best at his position. Once they do that for him the other players who are also among the best at their positions (Wilfork, Seymour & Mankins) will expect that they will be paid accordingly as well.


So Peppers won't just cost us his top dollar salary, he will also make it impossible for the Pats to then ask those guys to take less than top dollar. It would be an extremely expensive ripple effect.

That's speculatory. You can't not make a move that could net you a championship this year in fear of maybe losing a player. There are so many other factors such as cuts and the draft...

To miss out on a unique guy like Peppers, who will play a position that is tough to fill these days because you're scared of losing a player at a very easy-to-replace position (OG, 3-4 DE) is just stupid.
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ElectricEye
03-18-2009, 12:54 AM
That's speculatory. You can't not make a move that could net you a championship this year in fear of maybe losing a player. There are so many other factors such as cuts and the draft...

To miss out on a unique guy like Peppers, who will play a position that is tough to fill these days because you're scared of losing a player at a very easy-to-replace position (OG, 3-4 DE) is just stupid.

Assuming we have a capped year next year, Peppers being among the highest paid defensive players in the league would all but eliminate our chances of resigning Seymour. Completely disagree with your assessment on 3-4 DE's. They're not something that's easy to replace. You get one or two per draft class and they aren't always good ones.

FlyingElvis
03-19-2009, 10:02 AM
That's speculatory. You can't not make a move that could net you a championship this year in fear of maybe losing a player. There are so many other factors such as cuts and the draft...

To miss out on a unique guy like Peppers, who will play a position that is tough to fill these days because you're scared of losing a player at a very easy-to-replace position (OG, 3-4 DE) is just stupid.

It's also speculatory to say Peppers will have success as a 3-4 OLB. He may be unique, but that doesn't mean he will work well at a new position.

It's speculatory to further say that acquiring Peppers is "a move that could net you a championship this year." So without him we can't? A combination of Crable, Guyton, Woods and someone like Sintim/Cushing would not be a move that could net a championship?

All those ideas are equally speculative. Until we see a result we have to work based on speculation.

nepg
03-19-2009, 11:26 AM
I love all of those OLBs you mentioned (don't forget TBC, who was beastly in off the edge at times in his last stint with the Pats), but none of them have proven they can get the job done consistently or stay healthy. I have little doubt that Peppers would thrive in a 3-4. There's a reason he wants to play in one so badly...he knows he'll succeed.

He's highly intelligent, and adding that mix of intelligence & physical talent to a unit that has Adalius Thomas and Jerod Mayo would be amazing.

Peppers, combined with the rest of the pieces they have, makes them a championship caliber defense instantly.
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ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 11:29 AM
I think any upgrade to our pass rush makes us a championship caliber defense. Maybe not a dominating one, but more than good enough. Doesn't have to be Peppers. Peppers doesn't exactly play the way you would want an end to if you were looking to convert them to a 3-4.

nepg
03-19-2009, 11:49 AM
I just don't see how someone can be so against it. If the make the move, to me, that means that they know they can re-sign who needs to be re-signed.
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ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 11:56 AM
I just don't see how someone can be so against it. If the make the move, to me, that means that they know they can re-sign who needs to be re-signed.

The money just wouldn't be there with the kind of contract Peppers would command. There wouldn't be that much we could do.

I just think with the positional questions about Peppers and the money it requires we would be better served holding onto our picks and stocking up for a deep playoff run.

Bigburt63
03-19-2009, 12:05 PM
The money just wouldn't be there with the kind of contract Peppers would command. There wouldn't be that much we could do.

I just think with the positional questions about Peppers and the money it requires we would be better served holding onto our picks and stocking up for a deep playoff run.

They are already in contract extension negotiations with Wilfork. Maybe they view the money that Seymour would demand to be too much for a player his age, and would be more willing to spend it on someone else. That being said, perhaps Peppers would take less to play for the patriots. The panthers offered him a contract to be the highest paid defensive player ever, and he turned it down. It sounds like it isn't about the money, but rather its about the situation he wants to play in.

ElectricEye
03-19-2009, 12:11 PM
But it's got to at least be a little bit about the money. Can't believe he would take a less than market long term deal for us when he could hit free agency next year and make HUUUGE money with a potentially uncapped year.

FlyingElvis
03-19-2009, 12:42 PM
They are already in contract extension negotiations with Wilfork. Maybe they view the money that Seymour would demand to be too much for a player his age, and would be more willing to spend it on someone else. That being said, perhaps Peppers would take less to play for the patriots. The panthers offered him a contract to be the highest paid defensive player ever, and he turned it down. It sounds like it isn't about the money, but rather its about the situation he wants to play in.

This is really the big hang-up for me. If Vince & Mankins can get extensions done first it would ease my mind quite a bit. Then at least they are taken care of before we even sign Peppers. Problem solved.

And Peppers could 'play ball' with NE, who knows? That would be freakin' awesome!

nepg - I'm not totally against the idea of Peppers in NE. I would love it. It just brings some big concerns with it that can't be ignored.

FlyingElvis
03-20-2009, 10:30 AM
Great article on Bill's discussion of Peppers and the Cassel trade - linked here (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2009/03/20/belichick_adds_touch_of_spice/?page=1).

The main points: Peppers has to sign his franchise offer to even discuss trades. The Cassel trade involved only one actual offer - the one from KC.

And on the nonsense that He did Pioli a favor of some kind:

"Belichick scoffed at the notion he passed up a potential better deal to help out Scott Pioli, who left the Patriots in January to become the general manager of the Chiefs.

"It's pretty ludicrous," said Belichick. "I have all the respect in the world for Scott and everything that he's done. He's a great friend. He's a terrific executive and personnel manager, but I work for the Patriots. I have no loyalty to anybody or any team other than the New England Patriots. Everything I do is for our team to win and be successful. I can't imagine that anybody would think that's any different.""

Nalej
03-21-2009, 01:04 PM
Looks like BB is aware of everything we've talked about. Even hinted to Peppers to sign the tender so the trade talks can be a whole lot more fluid.

A whole lot has been said and written about a story I posted on this site Monday regarding a likely trade that would send Carolina Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers to New England in exchange for a second-round draft pick. On Thursday, two prominent voices joined the conversation: Patriots coach Bill Belichick and Peppers’ agent, Carl Carey.

After hearing Belichick during an interview on Boston radio station WEEI and reading comments from Carey posted a short while later on the Boston Herald’s website, I got the impression that if anything does happen between the Patriots and Panthers, it will take every bit of the month-plus time frame I mentioned in the piece: at some point between the league meetings, which begin Sunday, and the April 25 draft.

After giving WEEI’s Glenn Ordway the technical explanation of why there couldn’t be any trade talks between the Patriots and Panthers — because Peppers has yet to sign his franchise-tender agreement with Carolina and, therefore, the Panthers aren’t allowed to discuss a deal with any team — Belichick did say, “There’s a lot of moving parts in a situation like this. There’s a lot of things that have to be worked out and, in all honesty, when you’re talking about that level of player, that level of contract, those different levels of commitment, it’s usually not the kind of thing that happens in 10 or 15 minutes. Those things can take a long time and they can tie up a lot of time, money and resources and they may or may not ever get done.”

Carey told the Herald’s Karen Guregian, “We’re not in a position where we have to act hastily.”

Although the teams can’t talk trade until Peppers signs the one-year tender with Carolina, his agent can broker a contract with another team that he then could take back to the Panthers. Belichick never mentioned on WEEI whether he or anyone else from the Patriots has spoken with Carey about Peppers. However, Carey told Guregian that he has not heard from the Pats, even though he has had “preliminary discussions with GMs from other clubs in the league.”

Either way, Belichick made it pretty clear that he’d prefer to avoid that path to a trade. In fact, you got the distinct feeling Belichick was trying to send a message to Peppers and his agent to sign the $16.68 million tender with the Panthers because it would actually help the trade process along . That logic makes sense, because the Pats would then be in the position to communicate directly with the Panthers about the terms of the trade. I continue to hear from league sources that Carolina would accept trading Peppers for the second-round pick New England acquired for Matt Cassel (34th overall). That is all the Pats would be willing to give up for a player with a one-year contract, while also having discussions with Carey about working out a longer-term deal that would satisfy his client and fit New England’s pay structure.

“I don’t think that’s a good way to do business,” Belichick said to WEEI about an agent-brokered transaction. “I personally would not do it that way. I think if a player wants to be traded or wants to be in a position where he could be traded, then the best thing for that player to do is do what Matt Cassel did — sign the tender, be under contract, and then go to the team and say, ’Okay, I don’t want to be here, trade me, this is where I want to go.’”

If Peppers wants to go to New England, there is every reason to believe he’d be welcome (Belichick said Peppers would have no problem converting from a 4-3 end to an outside linebacker in the Patriots’ 3-4 scheme). But given the complexities of working out a contract that is acceptable to him and fits the Pats’ pay structure and also working out the actual trade agreement with the Panthers, it is clearly going to take a while for him to get there … if he ever does.

–Vic Carucci

Jvig43
03-22-2009, 11:47 AM
Is anyone else surprised we havent tried negotians with Jason Taylor? I cant believe hes been on the market this long and weve yet to do anything about it. I feel like he could help the team more then the older WRs we recently signed.

nepg
03-22-2009, 12:20 PM
I think he's been on his way to Tampa since he was cut by Washington. Just a matter of time. He doesn't want to play in a 3-4, that's why he's not in Miami anymore.
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proshoota25
03-27-2009, 09:01 AM
ESPN Insider

Patriots the front-runner for Taylor?
Jason Taylor | Redskins | Interested: Patriots?
With no resolution in sight for the Julius Peppers situation, the New England Patriots might be taking advantage of the fact that there is an older but similar player on the market, and they wouldn't have to wrangle a trade in order to acquire him.

Having been released nearly a month ago by the Washington Redskins, Jason Taylor is in no hurry to sign with a new team, but two sources have informed Yahoo! Sports that the Patriots are Taylor's top choice. According to the sources, Taylor sees New England as his best chance to win a Super Bowl ring, and he is aware of coach Bill Belichick's reputation of deftness in handling veteran players.

For the Patriots, a deal with Taylor makes sense for all the same reasons that a trade for Peppers would make sense. The team has a need for a disruptive pass-rusher, and while Taylor had somewhat of an off-year in 2008, it is believed by some that the reason for it was the defensive scheme in Washington as opposed to declining skills. For his part, Patriots owner Robert Kraft played coy about the situation at the NFL owners' meetings, saying of Taylor's potential with the team, "I'm sure that can happen if he wants it."

Another possibility to fill the role is the draft, and a report in the Boston Globe indicates that the team may use a first- or second-round pick on Cincinnati defensive end Connor Barwin, who led the Big East with 11 sacks in 2008. The added bonus with Barwin is that he played his first three seasons for Cincinnati as a tight end, and the team may have visions of him playing a role similar to Mike Vrabel, who was traded to the Kansas City Chiefs earlier this offseason.

nepg
03-27-2009, 09:05 AM
I don't get why people make such a big deal out of Vrabel lining up at TE every once in awhile... It was in goal line situations and used as a distraction more than anything. All Vrabes ever did was run flats...anyone can do that. He never actually played TE.
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FlyingElvis
03-27-2009, 09:11 AM
It is always brought up b/c it shows "versatility" in a player's game.

nepg
03-27-2009, 09:17 AM
I mean, it's fun to watch like when they trot out Scalabrine at the end of a game and try to get him to hit a three, but that's about the extent of it... It's not like Troy Brown playing corner or Hochstein playing G, C, and FB or Dan Klecko going from NT, to DE, to OLB, to ILB, back to NT, and playing some FB and TE...
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proshoota25
03-27-2009, 09:20 AM
very true but im surprised the pats may be in interested in taylor..... he would add to our much needed pass rush

FlyingElvis
03-27-2009, 09:33 AM
You are surprised? I figured they would be talking to him at some point. He and BB seem to have a man crush thing going on for each other.

Don Vito
03-27-2009, 10:38 AM
I'm not suprised we are looking at Taylor, we love those veterean LBs. We could get him for cheap too since he is coming off of an injury and is in the downside of his career, but that will be the issue. I don't want to give up a lot for him even though I think he could do well here. If we added him we would still probably go OLB day 1 but it would make ILB our clear cut top need.

Nalej
04-26-2009, 12:47 PM
We traded E. Hobbs???

goodlookin
04-28-2009, 03:18 PM
lets pick up L. Foote and make bruschi become a coach....OMFG.

Nalej
04-28-2009, 08:40 PM
I like the idea of picking up Foote.
Sounds like a BB type move anyways

ElectricEye
04-28-2009, 09:01 PM
I wouldn't mind Foote at all if the price was right.

FlyingElvis
04-29-2009, 09:11 AM
Larry Foote would be great. More UM linebackers . . . excellent.

Nalej
04-30-2009, 06:00 PM
Looks like BB acknowledged our TE depth.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4118146

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=37141&pcid=47

TE Alex Smith from the Bucs for an undisclosed draft pick in 2010.
I like the trade- as long as its not a high draft pick

Don Vito
04-30-2009, 06:43 PM
Wow, I can't say I expected that but I like the Alex Smith pickup a lot. He is young, talented, and smart. Good move.

Wootylicous
04-30-2009, 06:57 PM
I like this pickup a lot! :D

ElectricEye
04-30-2009, 09:11 PM
Nice pickup. Probably a conditional pick, most likely a 5th rounder. Wouldn't surprise me if Smith ended up outpreforming Watson this year.

FlyingElvis
05-01-2009, 08:23 AM
What is the deal with the "undisclosed pick" nonsense? I'm getting pretty tired of that BS. BB has some serious issues.

Anyway . . .

Love the Smith pick up and I agree w/ElectricEye that he'll probably take over the #1 spot. My guess is a 5th round conditional that could become a 4th.

Borat
05-01-2009, 10:31 AM
I wish we had traded you our Alex Smith :)

Don Vito
05-01-2009, 11:52 AM
I wish we had traded you our Alex Smith :)

Thats actually the first thing I thought when I saw that we traded for Alex Smith, I was scurred

nepg
05-01-2009, 01:17 PM
Alex "QB" Smith would actually be a great fit in the Patriots' offense. People underrate him and give him way too much undeserved guff. The problems he's had in SF go directly to Mike Nolan, who no one thinks well of as a head coach... If Nolan and the talent-getters have been well-established as sucking, why do so many people take such a hard stance against Alex Smith? It's stupid. The kid can play, and is still younger than most of the QB's in the NFL. They've got a quality leader at HC, some weapons on offense, and a lot more stability... I really don't see Shaun Hill holding Smith from starting in 2009.

Borat
05-01-2009, 01:44 PM
Alex "QB" Smith would actually be a great fit in the Patriots' offense. People underrate him and give him way too much undeserved guff. The problems he's had in SF go directly to Mike Nolan, who no one thinks well of as a head coach... If Nolan and the talent-getters have been well-established as sucking, why do so many people take such a hard stance against Alex Smith? It's stupid. The kid can play, and is still younger than most of the QB's in the NFL. They've got a quality leader at HC, some weapons on offense, and a lot more stability... I really don't see Shaun Hill holding Smith from starting in 2009.

I don't want to do a big breakdown in your guys' forum, so I'll just say that Alex Smith (the crappy QB) has, BY FAR, the worst footwork of any "pro" QB I've ever seen. It's not even close. If you wish to debate the merits of such a terrible QB, let's do it over in the SF forum.

Matthew Jones
05-02-2009, 11:26 PM
Alex "QB" Smith would actually be a great fit in the Patriots' offense. People underrate him and give him way too much undeserved guff. The problems he's had in SF go directly to Mike Nolan, who no one thinks well of as a head coach... If Nolan and the talent-getters have been well-established as sucking, why do so many people take such a hard stance against Alex Smith? It's stupid. The kid can play, and is still younger than most of the QB's in the NFL. They've got a quality leader at HC, some weapons on offense, and a lot more stability... I really don't see Shaun Hill holding Smith from starting in 2009.

The thing is that pretty much anyone can fit in somewhere on the Patriots. Alex Smith has no qualities that would make him better than, say, Rex Grossman in New England (who I would actually like to see here.) Kyle Boller would have been nice, he's always played well against the Patriots and he has a big arm as well.

FlyingElvis
05-05-2009, 09:11 AM
Larry Foote has officially been released . . . any sightings of him in Foxboro?

Don Vito
05-05-2009, 10:43 AM
Larry Foote has officially been released . . . any sightings of him in Foxboro?

I would love that pickup; Foote is a great fit for us and would be nice to have next to Mayo along with Bruschi, Guyton, and McKenzie. That would give us a pretty solid ILB corps, with Eric Alexander being a special teams ace essentially.

I am pretty sure he is openly said he wants to finish his career in Detroit, though.

FlyingElvis
05-05-2009, 10:59 AM
He said he wants to go to Detroit but will entertain other offers. His first priority seems to be the starting, full time role that he lost in Pitt. His mention of Detroit was from a Detroit paper, so it may be a simple "Do you want to play in Detroit" question that he answered. But I'm not sure if he said it elsewhere, too.

"Foote, a Michigan native, told the Detroit Free Press that he'd like to play for the Lions, but will enterain any offers."
article link (http://blogs.usatoday.com/thehuddle/2009/04/steelers-set-to-bid-goodbye-to-lb-larry-foote.html)

I'd be happy with him going to Detroit, to be honest. Same as Brace for NE, Foote is a Detroit kid and Michigan guy so he'd be a hometown favorite. Plus Detroit could really use the help.

But I'd rather see him in NE.

Nalej
05-05-2009, 09:01 PM
Pats sign Bears safety B. McGowan

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pid=37220&pcid=47

ElectricEye
05-05-2009, 09:35 PM
Not a bad deal. Should make the team and be good for depth. Probably means we're not seeing Rodney Harrison again.

Don Vito
05-05-2009, 09:37 PM
Yeah, makes you wonder about Tank too. Nice to see us add another local kid though.

ElectricEye
05-05-2009, 09:41 PM
McGowan is more of a free safety. Nice to have capable backups behind Merriweather and Chung.

Don Vito
05-05-2009, 09:47 PM
McGowan is more of a free safety. Nice to have capable backups behind Merriweather and Chung.

I know, I'm just thinking if were simply trying to get deeper at the position because Tank may be done. I'd love to see Tank playing as a nickle LB for us next fall.

Don Vito
05-05-2009, 10:49 PM
Larry Foote signed a 1 year deal with Detroit.

ElectricEye
05-05-2009, 11:08 PM
I know, I'm just thinking if were simply trying to get deeper at the position because Tank may be done. I'd love to see Tank playing as a nickle LB for us next fall.

I'm sort of leaning towards Tank being done. He hasn't played football at a high level in almost four years now. If you're depth chart breakdown holds true, I think Tank will get cut in favor of keeping Redd, especially with this move.

FlyingElvis
05-06-2009, 09:19 AM
Before the draft I was telling someone (in a mock thread, iirc) that I did not expect Tank to make the roster. He really was at the end before getting injured, so expecting him to come back to a useful form is overly optimistic.


Foote to Detroit is a bummer. Hopefully he does well there since he inked a one year deal.

nepg
05-06-2009, 09:35 AM
The thing is that pretty much anyone can fit in somewhere on the Patriots. Alex Smith has no qualities that would make him better than, say, Rex Grossman in New England (who I would actually like to see here.) Kyle Boller would have been nice, he's always played well against the Patriots and he has a big arm as well.

Not any QB can fit with the Pats. Grossman and Boller would be awful because they lack accuracy and the ability to make intelligent decisions with the ball.

Nalej
05-22-2009, 04:15 PM
Cowboys are trying to trade OLB G. Ellis. Pats have been informed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4199484

Don Vito
05-22-2009, 04:18 PM
Cowboys are trying to trade OLB G. Ellis. Pats have been informed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4199484

That is a move that I think we all would be happy with. Ellis would be a nice pickup, I'm not against adding Burgess but Ellis would be a much better move. Adding a vet LB like Ellis would be a typical Pats move, he is 33 but he still has something left in the tank. Stats don't tell it all but he had 8 sacks (4.5 in his last 6 games) and a pick last year, pretty solid considering Dallas' depth at LB and Ware was probably getting to the QB before him a lot.

I really support any effort we are trying to make in bolstering our linebacking corps in general, especially the pass rush.

Nalej
05-22-2009, 05:31 PM
I agree. I like the idea of adding Ellis over Burgess.

Nalej
05-26-2009, 10:29 PM
Pats going after Tinoisomoa

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast

AntoinCD
05-27-2009, 11:06 AM
I was searching all the threads in the NFL forum and I couldn't believe that this didn't have it's own thread but the Patriots acquired LB Paris Lenon

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/27/patriots-acquire-lenon/

Absolutely huge news. If we weren't certain favourites for the superbowl before, we definitely are now:rolleyes:

Bigburt63
05-27-2009, 11:14 AM
decent depth pickup I guess. we have very little ILB depth

AntoinCD
05-27-2009, 11:19 AM
The problem I have is it mighn't be just depth. He will probably challenge Bruschi for starting beside Mayo if he picks up the system quick enough. I mean this was a guy people where calling for Detroit to bench

Bigburt63
05-27-2009, 11:24 AM
They were also calling for Bodden's head though, no? He wasn't playing with much in Detroit, that is for sure. If he can provide some valuable depth, get some reps on defense if he can learn the system and proves to be effective, then why not? Other than Bruschi and Mayo, we have Guyton, Appleby and him.

AntoinCD
05-27-2009, 11:42 AM
They were also calling for Bodden's head though, no? He wasn't playing with much in Detroit, that is for sure. If he can provide some valuable depth, get some reps on defense if he can learn the system and proves to be effective, then why not? Other than Bruschi and Mayo, we have Guyton, Appleby and him.

Yea that's true about Bodden but he had performed at a high level before, whereas Lenon not so much. Im not annoyed or anything by the move its just kinda meh...

I'd really prefer to integrate Guyton into the defense more