The 3-4 Debate

[Splat]

There has been alot of talk from fans and media about the Chiefs maybe going to a 3-4 D I would like to get your thoughts on the matter?

I'm not going to sit here and say if they will or won't non of us can really know 100% but here are my thoughts.

I didn't like the idea at first since we don't really have the players (on paper) to make the switch but the more I think about it the more I like it.

You could argue we don't have the players to run a successful 4-3 either I don't have to bring up stats every one knows how bad our D was.

My thing is if we are going to do it this would be the best year for it since we have so much cap room and so many early picks in the draft.

The biggest two question marks players wise from the roster we have right now are Dorsey and Hail.

We all know Dorsey would not be a good fit at NT but could he move to DE and make plays or would he be lost?

A even bigger question make in my mind is Hali what would they do with him I'm not ready to give up on him but I feel he can't play DE in a 3-4 and I'm not sure he is athletic enough to play LB?

I don't think we could just completely go all out 3-4 in one off season but I do feel we could play a hybrid 3-4 4-3 mix and slowly over time make the full jump.

Thoughts?

[vidae]

imo it really depends on how good Dorsey is. We drafted him 5th overall last year and paid him a buttload of money.. is that all wasted? Can he play a 3-4 DE? I'm not sure.

DJ would be great in the 3-4, I think Demorrio Williams would be good too, he has speed.. but the rest? And what about our DBs? I think they'll be better if we get pressure, but if this is something we want to do we should decide it sooner rather than later because that #3 pick is looking mighty sweet with Curry, Orakpo, Brown etc on the board.

[Splat]

I got to thinking if we do go 3-4 I could see Donnie Edwards staying on one more year SP likes vets any ways.

OLB Williams
MLB Edwards
MLB Johnson
OLB Curry

Thats pretty sick.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Even more than the question of the current roster's ability to play in a 3-4 front (which, I must say doesn't look particularly good) is whether the Chiefs can afford to ignore adding to that offense and spend almost all their 2009 draft picks on guys to make the transition possible.

[Splat]

Even more than the question of the current roster's ability to play in a 3-4 front (which, I must say doesn't look particularly good) is whether the Chiefs can afford to ignore adding to that offense and spend almost all their 2009 draft picks on guys to make the transition possible.

I don't think the Chiefs O is in that bad of shape top ten no but with some tweaking of the OL they can be middle of the pack IMO.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I don't think the Chiefs O is in that bad of shape top ten no but with some tweaking of the OL they can be middle of the pack IMO.

I'd say the team is at least short a quarterback (and whether they draft one or trade for Cassell, that will cost at least one draft pick) and a #2 wide receiver along with some offensive line. They certainly aren't in a state that I would say the offense could go a year without drafting some good young talent.

[Splat]

I'd say the team is at least short a quarterback (and whether they draft one or trade for Cassell, that will cost at least one draft pick) and a #2 wide receiver along with some offensive line. They certainly aren't in a state that I would say the offense could go a year without drafting some good young talent.

I agree they will have to draft some O but like I said in my post above switching to a 3-4 will take more the one off season but they can start the building process now.

I for one still have high hopes for Tyler Thigpen and the Chiefs do have talent at WR but it is young talent I look for them to grab a vet WR and RT or RG in FA.

[M.O.T.H.]

I dont see how Demorrio Williams would play OLB in a 3-4. blah. He might not be all that great but, Babin is the better fit, given his size. Even though, he wasnt amazing there when he played for Houston. Is he still under contract?

You guys dont have good personnel to make that transition...it may very well happen, though. But, it's not a good fit...especially along the D-Line...where you have Hali who is too small to play 3-4 end and not a good OLB candidate either. Both Tank and Dorsey are in the same boat...similar size, both had been talked about as possible 3-4 NTs back in the day but, neither is ideal and I wouldnt want either at end...that would have to be Dorsey, making that move more than likely, though. It doesnt look good at all.

[Crickett]

You guys dont have good personnel to make that transition...it may very well happen, though. But, it's not a good fit...especially along the D-Line...where you have Hali who is too small to play 3-4 end and not a good OLB candidate either. Both Tank and Dorsey are in the same boat...similar size, both had been talked about as possible 3-4 NTs back in the day but, neither is ideal and I wouldnt want either at end...that would have to be Dorsey, making that move more than likely, though. It doesnt look good at all.


I never heard Dorsey and 3-4 NT used in the same sentence once unless that sentence was Glenn Dorsey is not a 3-4 NT.

[M.O.T.H.]

I never heard Dorsey and 3-4 NT used in the same sentence once unless that sentence was Glenn Dorsey is not a 3-4 NT.

There was a reason some thought he'd go to Miami. There were a number of scouts that said, he could realistically play the nose in a bit of a modified 3-4. Like a Jay Ratliff. Obviously, he is much better suited as that 3 technqiue DT but, there were people out there that believed he could play NT effectively in a 3-4. I even said he's not ideal at all and Tank would more than likely get the nod but, Dorsey and the 3-4 has been discussed before.

[Crickett]

There was a reason some thought he'd go to Miami. There were a number of scouts that said, he could realistically play the nose in a bit of a modified 3-4. Like a Jay Ratliff. Obviously, he is much better suited as that 3 technqiue DT but, there were people out there that believed he could play NT effectively in a 3-4. I even said he's not ideal at all and Tank would more than likely get the nod but, Dorsey and the 3-4 has been discussed before.

If anyone had him pegged to go to Miami, it was because they viewed him as the best player in the draft, not because he was suited to play the 3-4 nose. Most seemed to have him going to the Falcons before they drafted Matt Ryan.

[PACKmanN]

I got to thinking if we do go 3-4 I could see Donnie Edwards staying on one more year SP likes vets any ways.

OLB Williams
MLB Edwards
MLB Johnson
OLB Curry

Thats pretty sick.

Curry would play inside.

[M.O.T.H.]

If anyone had him pegged to go to Miami, it was because they viewed him as the best player in the draft, not because he was suited to play the 3-4 nose. Most seemed to have him going to the Falcons before they drafted Matt Ryan.

Regardless of where they had him pegged...his name and the 3-4 nose was a common topic last year and many believed he could play it.

[Crickett]

Regardless of where they had him pegged...his name and the 3-4 nose was a common topic last year and many believed he could play it.

I just searched Glenn Dorsey nose. All I found was a bunch of posts talking about how he didn't really fit in the 3-4 and a mock by toonsterwu suggesting that Glenn Dorsey could play the nose in the 4-3 for the Rams.

[M.O.T.H.]

ughhhhhhhh.....

Why do you think the Dolphins and Patriots were interested in him so much? Yes many considered him to be the best player in the draft...a main reason why is because, he was a guy who projected well to play multiple positions along the line. Thus, the Dolphins and Pats saw value in a player that could potentially play end or the nose. As long as his "stress fractures" and knee were nothing serious...he was considered to be a cant miss in either defensive scheme. Still much better suited as a three technique 4-3 guy but, fine in any scheme. I dont even know why there is a debate here when, if the Dolphins did draft him #1...it was with the intent of him manning the middle. And at one time, he was the consensus pick for the Dolphins not too far away from the draft. Which means a hell of a lot of people thought he was capable of playing in a 3-4 defense.

and given Dorsey's playing style at the collegiete level and the success of say a guy like Ratliff...seeing Dorsey have success there is much easier today.

With all that being said...i do agree, he is better in the 4-3 and they dont even have the right personell to make such a move...but, this was a highly debated topic last year on here and out there in the real world.

and again...Tyler is better suited there anyway and Dorsey would have to play end. So, this whole thing is more than likely pointless anyway.

[vidae]

We almost have all the pieces needed to run a pretty solid 4-3. We need a pass rushing DE and a MLB but other than that.. I like our secondary and how they've progressed and I think that if he's used correctly that Dorsey could be the dominant player many thought he'd be.. I do not think you can label him a bust just yet.. but I really hope we don't switch to the 3-4. It would take years to draft and develop those players for that system and it looks as if a lot of money would be wasted, depending on a few players and their ability to fit into that scheme.

[diabsoule]

Regardless of where they had him pegged...his name and the 3-4 nose was a common topic last year and many believed he could play it.

Dorsey's best fit is a 3-4 end. His not big enough to be a 3-4 nose.

[bored of education]

i am readig this thread and i have a **** load to say. i cant really type that well and i wont make a thread saying im the most drink poster in nfldc DC history. but i think we lack the personel to make the transition AT ALL. I think it would take another year of 2-3 solid picks to become a good defense in the 4-3 than 3 drafts to become relevant with a 3-4.

offense has too many holes and defense has too many holes as a colelctive to make that transition. now a days wit hthe win now type of thinking ..no way does Clark hunt say suree take 3 more drafts to make KC a force.

Not one player in the front 7 has the 'mold' or skillset to 'excell; in the 3-4

but i will dicuss further tomorrow

[M.O.T.H.]

Dorsey's best fit is a 3-4 end. His not big enough to be a 3-4 nose.

I've agreed that his best fit in a Chiefs 3-4 would be end, right now...I dont particulary like him in a 3-4 that much either but, he can play in any defense and at the nose. That is what I was getting at...last year this was talked about a lot, it was overkill. If the Dolphins drafted him, it wouldnt be just to play end. In fact, everyone who had him going to the Dolphins talked about him playing NT. The value in a player like him came from the ability to play multiple poisitions in multiple schemes. The "size" issue with 3-4 NTs is becoming less of an issue, considering we're seeing smaller and smaller NTs. Even Mayock loved Sed Ellis at the 3-4 nose at 300 lbs. Given Dorsey's strength and ability to take on multiple blockers, he can play the nose. It's not a match made in heaven but, the ability to do so is there....Or if the Chiefs wanted to implement a one-gap 3-4...Dorsey could be a lot like the Cowboys Ratliff. But again, I agree that Tank Tyler or an outside player would be manning the nose position for them.

But again, put me in with the group that thinks a move to 3-4 shouldnt be done at all.

[Menardo75]

Brian Johnston could be a great fit at 3-4 outside linebacker.

[TonyGfortheTD]

Brian Johnston could be a great fit at 3-4 outside linebacker.
I agree. Without any FA's or draft picks, this is what a 3-4 alignment would currently look like.

DE: Alphonso Boone/Turk McBride NT: Tank Tyler/Ron Edwards DE: Glenn Dorsey

OLB: Tamba Hali ILB: Derrick Johnson ILB: Donnie Edwards OLB: Demorrio Williams/Brian Johnston

CB: Brandon Flowers FS: Jarrad Page SS: Bernard Pollard CB: Brandon Carr

The main issue right off the bat in my opinion would be the nose tackle situation. I don't think running a 3-4 D would be a disaster or there is a huge overall void of talent on the Defense. I think a lot of the woes last season had to do with poor scheme and how Gun and Herm were trying to use players.

The line overall would need to be upgraded though and better quality at LB would be helpful.

[Menardo75]

Tyler is a perfect fit for the NT, in fact that's what a lot of people were looking to draft him as. Edwards, and Johnson are perfect fits at ILB, but I don't think Hali would be a great 3-4 OLB nor would Williams. Orakpo, or Everette Brown would be nice additions.

[TonyGfortheTD]

The Chiefs actually flirted with Tamba Hali dropping back from DE to LB when he was a rookie and the results were actually favorable.

I agree on the notation about Demorrio Williams being a bad fit in a 3-4 though. The linebacker situation will need a lot of attention regardless of the D that is ran, though. Don't think Donnie Edwards can play a full season any longer.

Tank Tyler at NT would be interesting to watch.

I'm probably in the minority that thinks the Chiefs should install the 3-4 if Pioli brings in some veterans tailored to run it to help the younger guys transition over and an experienced coordinator like Romeo Crennel.

[Menardo75]

If I were them I would Hire Romeo and make the transistion, you would basically be starting from the same spot no matter what scheme you run sadley.

[TonyGfortheTD]

I agree completely. Regardless of the scheme they run, the Chiefs will have to invest quite a bit of picks into the front 7 and the next set of Defensive coaches will have to reteach the players how to play with proper technique.

They weren't even doing the 4-3 well, so might as well take the plunge now and switch to the D Pioli has always drafted players for.

[gpngc]

Kendrell Bell fits in a 3-4...

HAHAHHAHAAHAHHA... sorry I had to. That was mean.

[vidae]

Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.

[PACKmanN]

Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.

That is what me and a couple of other Packer fans on this site first thought. ugh. I think you guys run a 43 base with 34 looks.

[Menardo75]

Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.

I honestly think the hybrid defense is the best way to go. The only way to succesfully transition a defense is slowly. I wish some of the coaches thought that way...

[TonyGfortheTD]

Why switch to a 3-4? We obviously don't have the personnel to run either system (our D was balls!) but we're tailored closer to a 4-3 right now than anything. Like boe said, Clark probably doesn't want to wait 3 years to get the correct personnel in.

I can see slowly making the transition over the next few years while keeping it mainly 4-3 right now, building the pieces through FA/draft and getting there over a few years, but changing right NOW would be bad, I think. It'd take way too long.
Why should they stick with the 4-3? The Defense sucks already, so it's not like they'll be losing a lot by making the plunge, the GM has always built a 3-4 D and knows how to do it quite well and the Head Coach has primarily been associated with teams that have also ran a 3-4.

I think as long as you can comfortably find a place for Dorsey in the 3-4, make the change. Regardless of the scheme, a lot of the front 7 will have to be completely rebuilt.

Romeo Crennel has experience making the transition over and he and Pioli know each other very well.

[vidae]

Why should they stick with the 4-3? The Defense sucks already, so it's not like they'll be losing a lot by making the plunge, the GM has always built a 3-4 D and knows how to do it quite well and the Head Coach has primarily been associated with teams that have also ran a 3-4.

I think as long as you can comfortably find a place for Dorsey in the 3-4, make the change. Regardless of the scheme, a lot of the front 7 will have to be completely rebuilt.

Romeo Crennel has experience making the transition over and he and Pioli know each other very well.

And we haven't hired a DC yet so all of this is speculation and kind of pointless!

[Hermstheman83]

We're built for the 4-3, Tamba won't cut it as either a 34 DE or an OLB. Tank is a tweener when you think of the 34, we're not as bad as you guys' say we are. We put Glen Dorsey, the closest thing to a prototypical 3 gap Defensive Tackle as a 1 gap, take on all comers DT. stupid if you ask me. Our run defense improved(yea, it still sucked) but keep in mind that we were hit so hard with injuries that we had Rocky Boiman and Babin starting for us!

[TonyGfortheTD]

And we haven't hired a DC yet so all of this is speculation and kind of pointless!
Not a whole lot of earth shattering news going on right now, so speculation as good as it gets. :/ Ugh offseason.

Right now this Defense really isn't built and primed to run any scheme.

[villagewarrior]

I could see the Chiefs slowly start switching over to a 3-4 but sticking with a 4-3 base for the next year or two. They just don't have the personnel to make the switch this year. Most of the D-Line doesn't fit a 3-4 scheme, and I don't see Hali as a good enough athlete to switch to a 3-4 OLB.

I could see the Chiefs using a pick or two to start bringing in 3-4 personnel if that is the path they choose to take.

[bored of education]

Does not look like it will happen with the recent signings for coaches. For that I am damn happy. I do love the hires and think the coaching staff, front office moves sre steps in the right direction. Lets see if it can continue through the draft and with FA signings!

[nepg]

I felt Dorsey would be a solid 3-4 NT going into the 2008 draft, but aside from Edwards, no other DLs or LBs fit into that kind of defense at all...
________
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[vidae]

"Breaking News" on NFL Network: Adam Schefter reporting the Chiefs ARE switching to a 3-4 defense.

Unsure what that means but we'll see.

[bored of education]

oh goddddddddddddd

trade dorsey for a mid to late round 1st? but his ****** yer wont help his value

wtffff i am going awol

EFFING A!

[vidae]

Is it 100% sure that he can't play the 3-4 NT? Maybe, maybe not. That being said, our LB corp sucks bad so we definitely need to upgrade there. Curry round 1, Larry English round 2?!

[IndyColtScout]

NFL network reports Chiefs are switching to the 3-4.

Like the Broncos, you guys will need some work. I think DJ, Pollard, Page (if he stays), Carr/Flowers will work out in the 3-4. However, I'm not a huge fan of Dorsey or Hali in the 3-4. You guys will get there. Heck, you might just suprise some people.

[bored of education]

NFL network reports Chiefs are switching to the 3-4.

Like the Broncos, you guys will need some work. I think DJ, Pollard, Page (if he stays), Carr/Flowers will work out in the 3-4. However, I'm not a huge fan of Dorsey or Hali in the 3-4. You guys will get there. Heck, you might just suprise some people.

I wouldn't mind seeing a hybrid. :) Wishful thinking.

I like the coaching staff they put together and I trust the decisions being made. I may not like them but I trust them.

[nepg]

I had Dorsey projected as someone who could play NT in a 3-4. But it's the rest of the DL that they'll have problems with. Very undersized.

Brian Johnston can bulk back up to his pre-draft weight, and he'd be a good DE, Turk and Tank would be short DEs, Boone might be able to hold his own at NT, Ron Edwards can play DE, Hali doesn't fit at all... Overall, they're very-much on the short side.

For LB's, Babin, Gilberry, and Studebaker are 3-4 OLBs (not starters). Edwards and DJ are the only guys I'd trust at ILB (and DJ only because he's a star LB).

My thinking for the switch is that the Chiefs think they can get Julius Peppers. It will take a bit of work to get the defensive line updated to where it needs to be to run a 3-4. I'm confident in Dorsey being able to play the nose. Maybe they're thinking Tyson Jackson or Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd round (or both?), and maybe Zach Potter later?

Going 3-4 cripples their ability to get a lot better very quickly, but it could work out for them...
________
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[Splat]

More wood on the 3-4 fire.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0...and-notes.html (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcwest/0-3-1577/AFC-We%20st-news-and-notes.html)

"A source close to Romeo Crennel said Tuesday night the former Cleveland head coach and former New England defensive coordinator is not close to joining the Kansas City staff as a defensive coordinator. It is possible, at some point, the source said, that Crennel could join former New England colleague Scott Pioli as a defensive consultant."

[villagewarrior]

Interesting. You could probably pack a few pounds on McBride, Johnston, and Gilberry and they would have adequate size for a 3-4 DE, but I just don't see any true 3-4 DEs or NTs. I personally don't think Dorsey fits this scheme. What I saw when we drafted him is that he should be put in a gap and allowed to penetrate. I don't see him as being able to command 2-3 blockers every play as a 3-4 down lineman.

I also don't see Tamba Hali fitting in here, and I don't know if these defensive ends that the Chiefs have are athletic enough to be 3-4 linebackers. I would say Donnie Edwards needs to be healthy since he has experience in this system, and I think Derrick Johnson is athletic enough to play the scheme, although I worry about his already shaky consistency.

I'm not sure who Studebacker is, and I don't know where Tank Tyler fits in, although he may have to play the nose until they can find a more suitable one. We got a ton of linebackers and I'm not sure where they fit in, although I do hope this kills the Pollard to LB stuff, since he is most definitely not a 3-4 linebacker. This is a headscratcher, but I'm interested.

[nepg]

Studebaker projected as a possible 3-4 prospect coming out of college. He's bounced around the league a bit. Again, he's a backup...

Dorsey is certainly able to play the nose. The main ingredients are base and strength. Dorsey is super strong, and has a great base. The only real question with the guy is whether he can get and stay healthy...

Haven't heard the Pollard to LB talks... If they're true, I still wouldn't rule them out. The Pats have been toying with the idea of developing a safety into a 3-4 LB for a few years now. They just about had Tank Williams ready to go last off-season, but he got injured.

The Chiefs would have a lot of work to do to convert to a 3-4, but I'm guessing they're just moving to a 3-4 base, and will switch it up quite a bit.
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[villagewarrior]

Studebaker projected as a possible 3-4 prospect coming out of college. He's bounced around the league a bit. Again, he's a backup...

Dorsey is certainly able to play the nose. The main ingredients are base and strength. Dorsey is super strong, and has a great base. The only real question with the guy is whether he can get and stay healthy...

Haven't heard the Pollard to LB talks... If they're true, I still wouldn't rule them out. The Pats have been toying with the idea of developing a safety into a 3-4 LB for a few years now. They just about had Tank Williams ready to go last off-season, but he got injured.

The Chiefs would have a lot of work to do to convert to a 3-4, but I'm guessing they're just moving to a 3-4 base, and will switch it up quite a bit.

I think Dorsey is most definitely strong enough to play the nose, but is he wide enough? I don't see him being able to consistently take up the 2-3 blockers that will be necessary to run a successful 3-4 scheme.

The Pollard thing has been rolling around as a result of A) His poor pass coverage and B) The cover 2's ability to take oversized safeties and create very fast linebackers out of them. That is essentially what Indianapolis did with Cato June, and people thought the Chiefs might try the same thing with Pollard. I doubt that will happen now that the 3-4 is allegedly being implemented.

I would like to see Pollard put in a Polamalu-esque role, kind of let him rove around a bit. I don't envision him having the same coverage ability, but I think he could play a huge role in run game support and against the short passing game. Actually, Page might be more valuable in that role cause I like his coverage ability, but we would need to take a look at a FS that can cover the Deep 3rd. Didn't see enough of Morgan on defense to know whether he can do it or not.

[bored of education]

I think Dorsey is most definitely strong enough to play the nose, but is he wide enough? I don't see him being able to consistently take up the 2-3 blockers that will be necessary to run a successful 3-4 scheme.

The Pollard thing has been rolling around as a result of A) His poor pass coverage and B) The cover 2's ability to take oversized safeties and create very fast linebackers out of them. That is essentially what Indianapolis did with Cato June, and people thought the Chiefs might try the same thing with Pollard. I doubt that will happen now that the 3-4 is allegedly being implemented.

I would like to see Pollard put in a Polamalu-esque role, kind of let him rove around a bit. I don't envision him having the same coverage ability, but I think he could play a huge role in run game support and against the short passing game. Actually, Page might be more valuable in that role cause I like his coverage ability, but we would need to take a look at a FS that can cover the Deep 3rd. Didn't see enough of Morgan on defense to know whether he can do it or not.

I think Morgan is the best safety on the roster. Give him the chance and he could be a stud. I love Pollard but he is a SS only. He is atrocious in pass coverage and bites on way to many play actions.

[Splat]

I'm not saying Dorsey will be a great but no body knows how he will do IF we do go 3-4 or how they even plan on using him I think we all need to relax and see how this plays out before we give up on the kid and start screaming for a trade.

[Ho0k Em']

I don't think our personnel is that far from making the switch.

DE- Turk
NT- Tank
DE- Dorsey
WOLB- Hali
MLB- DJ
MLB- Curry(assuming he's the pick)
SOLB- uhhhh IDK

[nepg]

The DL's are on the severely short-side. Hali is too unathletic to play LB and not big/strong enough to play 3-4 DE. They don't have any starter-quality guys for OLB in a 3-4...

Lots of work to be done all-around... Main focus for UFA would switch to Chris Canty & Igor Olshansky (and Mike Wright), and a string of hopeful solutions at OLB:
Tully Banta-Cain
Rosey Colvin
Clark Haggans
Darryl Blackstock
Shantee Orr

Most of those guys would come cheap...so maybe it works... The LB's would all be 1-2 year deals on the cheap side and be solid; the DE's would cost a bit more with 3+ year deals and form a defensive line that'd be worth the price...

In the draft, they could still look out for Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd/3rd round, but not feel as pressured to pull the trigger.
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[Ho0k Em']

The DL's are on the severely short-side. Hali is too unathletic to play LB and not big/strong enough to play 3-4 DE. They don't have any starter-quality guys for OLB in a 3-4...

Lots of work to be done all-around... Main focus for UFA would switch to Chris Canty & Igor Olshansky (and Mike Wright), and a string of hopeful solutions at OLB:
Tully Banta-Cain
Rosey Colvin
Clark Haggans
Darryl Blackstock
Shantee Orr

Most of those guys would come cheap...so maybe it works... The LB's would all be 1-2 year deals on the cheap side and be solid; the DE's would cost a bit more with 3+ year deals and form a defensive line that'd be worth the price...

In the draft, they could still look out for Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd/3rd round, but not feel as pressured to pull the trigger.

I think Hali would be fine at rushbacker. I think if we could get either Canty or Olshansky, and also Colvin I think we'd be ready for the switch this year.

Ideally I'd like to see us get Olshansky and Colvin in here, and draft Curry in the 1st. Depending on how they feel about Hali playing outside we could possibly get a Maybin(doubtful), English(doubtful), or Kruger in the 2nd.

[Splat]

I forgot about Alfonso Boone what about him playing DE in a 3-4?

[bored of education]

Boone and Ron Edwards could play DE they have better size than an Hali

[Splat]

People keep talking about Dorsey IMO Hali is the player that would be more lost in the 3-4 out of the two.

[Hermstheman83]

People keep talking about Dorsey IMO Hali is the player that would be more lost in the 3-4 out of the two.

I think he could play outside as a down linebacker. Also, in college he did drop back into zone coverage quite a bit. But I think the big reason people make sure a big deal about Dorsey moreso than Hali is that we didn't invest as much in Hali as we did in Dorsey. I'm thinking Dorsey could be a pretty productive 3-4 DE with his penetration.

Also, the more I think about the 3-4 with KC the more it makes sense. You might say that we're built more for a 4-3. I'm thinking that if DJ can play OLB in a 3-4,with his sideline-to-sideline speed, he could become very much like terrell suggs. Also, Demorrio Williams is essentially a one-dimensional speed rushing LB anyways so he(or Brian Johnston, Jason Babin, we have a lot of options here) could play that position. Donnie will probably have another productive year in him and trade down(which, realistically could be an option giving the hype of Micheal Crabtree IMO) and take Rey Maluaga at like 8(Might be way too much value there, but we'd get some picks and we'd have a somewhat decent linebacking core. Also, our Linemen might be a little bit more worrisome, but Tank Tyler is a very strong man who isn't a big ugly like Butterball(Jamall Williams) is, but I believe he's the strongest guy on the team and illustrated this in the draft. Also, Turk McBride, not a pass rusher, but he could definately clog up the line at DE.

Another option(and i don't know if I'm reading too much into this) but we could move Bernard Pollard down to ILB in the 3-4. The guy dropped a lot of weight to move down to a safety but he's still a wee bit on the big side. I'm not sure the prototypical corner in a 3-4 fits Flowers or Carr, but with Dajuan Morgan having a year under his belt, I'd say throw him in there(he's got too much potential to waste). The more I look at it, the more it seems like our guys' fit the 3-4 better than a 4-3(esp. with jared allen gone).

[Splat]

I don't understand the Pollard to LB talk the guy is 224 pounds he would get knocked around like rag doll at LB in the 4-3 let alone the 3-4.

[nepg]

I'm thinking that if DJ can play OLB in a 3-4,with his sideline-to-sideline speed, he could become very much like terrell suggs.

DJ would not be an effective OLB in a 3-4.

Also, Demorrio Williams is essentially a one-dimensional speed rushing LB anyways so he(or Brian Johnston, Jason Babin, we have a lot of options here) could play that position.

No he can't. He's undersized for every position in a 3-4.

Donnie will probably have another productive year in him and trade down(which, realistically could be an option giving the hype of Micheal Crabtree IMO) and take Rey Maluaga at like 8(Might be way too much value there, but we'd get some picks and we'd have a somewhat decent linebacking core. Also, our Linemen might be a little bit more worrisome, but Tank Tyler is a very strong man who isn't a big ugly like Butterball(Jamall Williams) is, but I believe he's the strongest guy on the team and illustrated this in the draft. Also, Turk McBride, not a pass rusher, but he could definately clog up the line at DE.

Why trade down when Curry's right there?

Another option(and i don't know if I'm reading too much into this) but we could move Bernard Pollard down to ILB in the 3-4. The guy dropped a lot of weight to move down to a safety but he's still a wee bit on the big side. I'm not sure the prototypical corner in a 3-4 fits Flowers or Carr, but with Dajuan Morgan having a year under his belt, I'd say throw him in there(he's got too much potential to waste). The more I look at it, the more it seems like our guys' fit the 3-4 better than a 4-3(esp. with jared allen gone).

The Patriots experimented with Tank Williams at ILB, but it'd be silly to move one of the better SS's in the league... The entire secondary is a perfect fit for the 3-4. They just need a veteran or two to balance things.
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[Hermstheman83]

DJ would not be an effective OLB in a 3-4.



No he can't. He's undersized for every position in a 3-4.



Why trade down when Curry's right there?



The Patriots experimented with Tank Williams at ILB, but it'd be silly to move one of the better SS's in the league... The entire secondary is a perfect fit for the 3-4. They just need a veteran or two to balance things.

DJ wouldn't be an effective OLB in the 3-4? Why not? Essentially, OLB's in a 3-4 are undersized 4-3 DE that have speed off the edge. DJ has that AND he is actually really good in coverage. BP is the same size as Donnie Edwards, in my opinion on of the most underrated Linebackers of our time, I might be mistaken, but didn't Donnie Edwards play SS in college? Curry is better than Rey or JL BUT we have a lot of holes to fill(esp on the Offensive line) and I don't really see that much of a drop off in talent. I think if they overhype Crabtree(which they will) KC should strike while the Irons' hot, especially when we can get great O-Line talent in the second round(Mack, Robinson, Loadholt, etc)

Demorrio williams was a 3-4 OLB in Atlanta dude....and was pretty successful there. I think it's important variable in the 3-4 to have Really fast OLB's to rush the QB. You just need big D-lineman to occupy double teams.

[M.O.T.H.]

3-4 OLBs need enough bulk/strength to take on opposing tackles...Williams is not a 3-4 OLB candidate. If he's playing anywhere, it will be inside. Johnson on the other hand could make for a very good ILB. He's not ideal either given his playing style but, DJ to ILB would be a lock. Also, 3-4 OLB normally arent going to be asked to cover frequently...so the fact that Johnson can cover a little would help his case more for playing ILB.

[bored of education]

3-4 OLBs need enough bulk/strength to take on opposing tackles...Williams is not a 3-4 OLB candidate. If he's playing anywhere, it will be inside. Johnson on the other hand could make for a very good ILB. He's not ideal either given his playing style but, DJ to ILB would be a lock. Also, 3-4 OLB normally arent going to be asked to cover frequently...so the fact that Johnson can cover a little would help his case more for playing ILB.

YEah I think Dj could be a very solid ILB in the 3-4 and not good as an OLB in 30 sets. Briant Johnston could develop into a nice 3-4 OLB.

I am still not buying the change if so..the rebuilding process will take another year or two. But the Chiefs have money to work with, and next year alot of 3-4 studs will be available.

[Ho0k Em']

YEah I think Dj could be a very solid ILB in the 3-4 and not good as an OLB in 30 sets. Briant Johnston could develop into a nice 3-4 OLB.

I am still not buying the change if so..the rebuilding process will take another year or two. But the Chiefs have money to work with, and next year alot of 3-4 studs will be available.

I really don't think it will take that long. I think we are maybe 1 or 2 players away. I'm assuming Hali can succeed at a OLB which I think he can. I really don't see why he wouldn't. The other OLB is really the only other question, especially if we draft Curry, and sign Canty or Olshanksy.

[nepg]

Demorrio williams was a 3-4 OLB in Atlanta dude....and was pretty successful there. I think it's important variable in the 3-4 to have Really fast OLB's to rush the QB. You just need big D-lineman to occupy double teams.

He was an SLB in a Tampa 2 in Atlanta...
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[bored of education]

I really don't think it will take that long. I think we are maybe 1 or 2 players away. I'm assuming Hali can succeed at a OLB which I think he can. I really don't see why he wouldn't. The other OLB is really the only other question, especially if we draft Curry, and sign Canty or Olshanksy.

We have no TRUE DE's or OLBs. KC can run the risk of finding fits..behind you need to have theTy Warren, Seymour type DEs and rush specilaists at OLB. Curry/Hali are not rush specialists. Johnston might be the only one close to a 3-4 olb.

It will take 2 full drafts and 2 full FA sessions to fuill in right places while fillign in other needs of the enitre team

[nepg]

They can do it in one off-season, but it will take another year or two to have solid all-around depth and get the rest of the team's needs settled...

The Chiefs could use a couple trade-backs. Unfortunately, it looks like the Chiefs are stuck at #3 because Crabs just doesn't look like the prospect most hoped he was right now, and the market for the OT's at #3 isn't good because there are so many of them in this draft.

The jump to get ahead of Cleveland for Curry is just too great for any team that wants/needs him, and they'd be talking to Seattle about it first anyway (who might not be so keen on Crabs anymore).
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[adschofield]

I haven't posted in a while, but here are my thoughts:

I love the 3-4. I think it's the best scheme in football. Look at the teams who consisently have good defenses (New England, Pitt, Baltimore), they all run 3-4 defenses (or variations of the 3-4). Now we obviously don't have the personnel to run it now, but then again, we don't have the personnel to run a 4-3 defense either, so we'll have to rebuild regardless.

McBride, Dorsey (?), and Boone could all play the 3-4 DE. And Tamba could play OLB. However, we don't really have the personnel in the middle. I'd like to see us trade down from #3, and grab Everette Brown. Sign Bart Scott, and make attempts to get Boldin and/or Cassell. Sounds like a plan to me.

Oh and I really like the Haley hire and I'm excited for the team's future.

[vidae]

I haven't posted in a while, but here are my thoughts:

I love the 3-4. I think it's the best scheme in football. Look at the teams who consisently have good defenses (New England, Pitt, Baltimore), they all run 3-4 defenses (or variations of the 3-4). Now we obviously don't have the personnel to run it now, but then again, we don't have the personnel to run a 4-3 defense either, so we'll have to rebuild regardless.

McBride, Dorsey (?), and Boone could all play the 3-4 DE. And Tamba could play OLB. However, we don't really have the personnel in the middle. I'd like to see us trade down from #3, and grab Everette Brown. Sign Bart Scott, and make attempts to get Boldin and/or Cassell. Sounds like a plan to me.

Oh and I really like the Haley hire and I'm excited for the team's future.

Oh man, an ads sighting! You better be around for the draft so you, boe and I can talk in irc again!

[adschofield]

Oh man, an ads sighting! You better be around for the draft so you, boe and I can talk in irc again!

Oh definitely, by that time, I won't be that busy, so I'll have the time.

[bored of education]

Vrabel is old but had a sick year 2 years ago. Would be a high charecter guy plus he is a buckeye!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope its not more than a 4th

[villagewarrior]

Adding Vrabel to the deal definetely means a switch to the 3-4. Patriot linebackers seem to play into their 100s, so hopefully Pioli and Vrabel can bring that magic dust to Kansas City.

[bored of education]

If KC does sign Haggans that gives them Vrable and Haggans as OLBs. I know they aren't Harrison/Woodley types. But they are the type of vets that could help with the transition. Veteran presence is needed for a change of this nature.

[Madirishman]

Vrabel will be a good leader for this young team. He's worth the short term investment and he came to KC on the cheap. If he could convince LJ and/or Tony to stick around, that would be an added bonus.